₦airaland Forum

Romeo4real:
@My Joe -
This is a wholly disagreeable statement. Hamas is only a problem because Israel, US, UK and the EU made it so. Remember, Hamas won the first democratic election held in Gaza. An election encouraged by the US and UK no less, monitored by Jimmy Carter. When it became apparent their preferred candidate (Fatah) would not win, they began too foment dispute with their old divide and conquer rule.

After the verdict, they started supplying Fatah with weapons and ammunition for a sponsored coup, but Hamas moved first. The rest is history. This tells you the kind of "democracy" they really wanted in Gaza/West Bank.

As Cordell Hull famously said of Saddam Hussein - He may be a son of a b.itch, but he is our son of a b.itch. Hamas refused to be anyones b.itch, whilst Fatah was ready to be sodomised on all fours.

That post you quoted from was meant to be read as a whole. I asserted that it is reasonable to expect Hamas to do the right thing. In any case, nothing you have said takes away the fact that at the present time Hamas is involved in attacks on civilians which is not a good thing at the most basic level. Those attacks must be placed in their context, yes, but they remain attacks on civilians still. Anyway, how would you, Romeo, go about solving this problem. I will appreciate your thoughts in this thread.

Afam:
Yes, I ask for concrete statements because we need them before you can talk of any form of debates.

You stated that the IMF and World bank have nothing to do with the economic situation in Zimbabwe and I maintained that anyone with this position does not warrant any responses from me because even the West that is pushing the IMF and World bank to do what they are doing have never denied their actions as they feel they are justified in supporting such measures.

So, for you to start off with the position means that whatever we are discussion is based on a faulty foundation and as such I don't waste my time on such debates.

Has nothing to do with?

This what you said Afam

Afam: But the people of Zimbabwe don't need your sympathies and have made that clear by choosing to stick with Mugabe and to move the economy forward in spite of all the conspiracy by the World bank and IMF to strangulate the economy even when the economic melt down messed up the economies of a lot of countries that the so called IMF and World band were assisting.

And in reply I made it clear that while I do not like the IMF, it is convenient to blame them for Zimbabwe without proving it.

The truth is that the IMF[b] has something to do with[/b] every country's economy, particularly in the third world. Its policies have failed in many places, particularly Africa, but unfortunately, the IMF continues to implement them. But let's not forget the fact, if we are honest, that the same policies have worked in some places outside Africa.

Now to Zimbabwe, I am aware of how badly the IMF treated Zimbabwe in 2001 when the country defaulted on its debt - that, of course, is my subjective assessment, an opinion, of what happened. I do not the energy to lay all the facts here right now. Suffice to say that I do not like the IMF and the way it has conducted itself in Africa, and that includes Zimbabwe. But the idea that they are responsible for what befell Zimbabwe or that they conspired to ruin the country, is untrue.  I have already stated my disgust for the old land situation in Zimbabwe - what is wrong is the manner Mugabe carried out his redistribution. Tudor already described it well. It was Mugabe's policies that brought down Zimbabwe. I refuse to be deceived by Mugabe's antics. Did someone say Idi Amin used the same tactics? They all do.

Nairaland Elders Chart a Way Out of the Middle East Crisis

The auditorium is full to capacity. There are elders, statesmen, diplomats, heads of state, generals, bishops, activists, jihadists, journalists, communists, professors, intellectual gymnasts, political philosophers, Catholics, Evangelical Christians, Moslems, and others.

Ban Ki-moon is unavoidably absent from and has paid MyJoe of Nairaland, the world’s leading Internet forum, to moderate the global loya jirga.

By the time everyone has spoken – the Israeli right, the Israeli left, the Israeli centre, the Israeli right-of-centre, the Israeli left-of-centre, Al-Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Qayeeda, Hezbollah, the Americans, the UN Security Council, the Europeans, the Arab League, and the African Union – there is no solution in sight.

The first person to kick off the indaba was an American evangelist named Timothy Hunter. “The Palestinians,” he began, emphasizing every syllable he uttered with his right forefinger, “are trying to reap where they have not sown. The question, who owns the land? The Bible is clear: the land belongs to Israel. And there will be no peace if the will of God…”

“Shut up and sit down.” It was Muammar el-Gaddafi, leader of the Great Socialist People’s Libyan Arab Jamahiriya.

An argument followed, but MyJoe managed to calm rising tempers.

Avraham Burg, a veteran of the Israeli left, took the podium. “We should first lift the blockade. Then we should sit across the table with the Palestinians. We need to stop settlement activities and make some painful concessions that will lead to the creation of a State of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza. Further discussions are needed on East Jerusalem. The Palestinians, on their part, must stop talking about the right of refugees to…”

The microphone was snatched from his hand by a 20-year-old student from the Bar-Ilan
University in Tel Aviv. “You are a woman!” he spat. “No, that’s a slur on Deborah, Jael and Golda Meir. Next, you will ask that we give up the Golan Heights. Look, we should kill every Palestinian just like Joshua did to their ancient cousins, the Jebusites and the Amorites! Remember Samson, Gideon, Jephthah, David and the others? It was Samson, one of us, who invented suicide bombing in Gaza, but now. . .”

It took eight minutes for the interloper to be bundled out and for MyJoe to restore order.

Ayman Al-Zawahiri of Al Qayeeda took the stage. With his flowing beard he looked handsome in his galabiya and many women can’t help admiring him. “The solution is to acquire a few nuclear bombs and discreetly plant them throughout Israel. Suicide bombing is good, but you only kill few at a time. But with nukes, Israel will be wiped off the map. That is the solution. Al Qayeeda is working on something in collaboration with our brother, the great President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Very soon you shall hear from us. A Salam Aleikun.”

There was silence in the hall.

Avigdor Lieberman, Israeli Deputy Prime Minister and leader of Yisrael Bietenu, was next to speak. “I agree with the general idea that this problem has gone on for too long and a solution has to be found. I have the perfect solution. You see, Israel cannot give up its land. I have a right to live anywhere in the biblical land of Israel that I wish. So as I speak here, my secretaries are putting finishes touches to a bill to establish more settlements in Gaza and the West Bank. We will keep expanding these settlements. As we keep expanding, the space left for the Palestinians will keep shrinking. Then one day, they will wake up and find they have no space at all, except for a few tree tops and underground tunnels – that is, the trees that survived our missiles aimed at Hamas leaders and the underground tunnels we haven’t blocked. They will then have no option left than to stop making noise and scatter across the Middle East and the rest of the world. That way there will be peace. I know this will happen. It is easy. You see, we have the strongest army in the world, and the Palestinians and their Arab brothers are no match for us, and God is with us, so we can achieve this.”

By now there were shouts and boos from the Arab section.

But things soon calmed down and the AU’s representative, one Michael Otokiti, a Nigerian professor of war studies from Ife, took the stage. “You see,” he paused to clear his throat “the Palestinians cannot hope to win by suicide bombing. Why, you ask.” He paused again to push up his glasses and arrange some papers. “For the simple reason that they are dealing with a people who are themselves schooled in the art and science of terror; a people who have graduated from being common terrorists to a nuclear superpower…”

But no one was listening to him any longer. The hall had erupted and everyone stood up to give a rapturous ovation, as the one whom they had been waiting for was ushered into the hall. As the dark tall handsome young man leisurely made his way down the aisle, the ovation refused to die down. His tuxedo and reverse calf shoes look like they cost twenty-five hundred dollars to put together. It was rumoured his roll on was specially made for him by a company in Milan.

By the time he reaches the podium, his fellow Nairaland elders have taken the seats reserved for them. El Razur, Kabojunkie, Morpheus24, Sagamite, Tudor, Beaf, Texazzpate, Princekovo, Tayo-D, Cohomogoloy, RichyBlack and the others bring out their writing pads as they get ready for what they hope will be a rewarding evening. Remoe4real occasionally glances at a pocket map of the Middle East he holds in his left palm. Mariory adjusts his seat to beat Mama-Gee’s gele subverting his view of the podium. JeSoul is looking cool and radiant in a corner, saying little or nothing, although missing nothing. She is more concerned about the expansion of free feeding programmes rumours have it some left winger is planning to slam on the table in the Massachusetts Senate in flagrant inattention to the budget deficit. Frosbel refuses to sit, despite entreaties from Dayokanu. He remains standing near a door with a serious look on his face. Deep Sight, Mad Max, Mazaje and Bawomolo used to be interested in this matter. Anyone seen them around?

MyJoe shakes hands with the guest and introduces him.
Ladies and gentlemen. A Nigerian proverb has it that the giant rat, a.k.a. the rabbit, does not venture out in the daytime for nothing. But a time does come when out in the daytime that nocturnal furry mammal not only venture but skank about. So whenever that time comes when general talking by everyone fails, we seek out one who is known to be capable of addressing the matter at hand. That is why we are gathered here – to tap one of the best brains around. When an animal is itching, it goes to a tree. But when a man is itching, he goes to another man. I now present to you a man who has travelled the world. A man with a razor-sharp intellect, a razor-sharp tongue, and razor-sharp fingers. A man who knows what he wants and never shies away from speaking his mind. A man of learning and practical wisdom. A scientist, dialectical logician, Bible scholar, political sage, and Judeo-Christian philosopher. Ladies and gentlemen, Davidylan, Ph.D.

Let's move out of "who did what in international waters" to the solution phase. What is the way out of the Middle East Crisis?

Afam:
The good thing is that your opinion is not a fact and cannot decide the correctness or otherwise of what you think.

While the assertion above is generally correct, opinions can be based on facts. The ones you refer to indeed are. You have been the enemy of facts as this thread goes. That you know.

Afam:
Can you get back to the topic now? With concrete statements.

So you ask for "concrete statements" from me, Mr Afam? Anyway, I think you just want more material to seize on and say bland things like, "I hope this is a mistake." Or perhaps you think I should answer your pal who butted in with foul language. You, Mr Afam, can begin by substantiating your claims.

Afam:
Don't bring your stupidity in the open. I checked to find exact comments? See how silly your thought process is? Did anyone accuse you of making the exact comments you are talking about? I am sick of dealing with people who don't have integrity so you must learn to understand why I respond to you the way I do because there is simply no other option.

Your stock-in-trade. Throw words around and spew bile when asked to substantiate them. "Those who don't respect facts or logic." "Those who don't have integrity." Accurate descriptions of you, Afam. It is your thought process that is deeply flawed. Who introduced the word, "exact"? Anyway, someone else with soon butt in here with something for you to seize on and say, "Thank you, this is why I refuse to answer him." Just tarry. . .

Afam:
You don't have to make the exact comments I made for you to be guilty of what I accused you of. When you leave your home in the morning, you must learn to negotiate your way as you encounter people outside.

So you checked and failed to find the "exact comments" you accused me of, but I am guilty all the same . Now you must see my point about finding a link between things you say and substance. Anyway, I think your quip about negotiating applies better to you.

Afam:
The problem we have is that we are mere hypocrites. You think you can make all sorts of comments about people and when they make comments about you then you begin to talk about decency.

Can you highlight any indecent comments of mine? That will justify your charge of hypocrisy. Of course, not! You just throw words around and when asked to substantiate them, say, "I hope this is a mistake." "There has to be agreements before people can debate," and so on.

Afam: Maybe you are used to debating with people who tolerate your silly comments while you assume everything is ok. As for me I choose who to debate with as I do not have all the time in the world to engage people on issues that ought to be clear as that would amount to complete waste of time, sorry.

If you read my back posts you will not see any insults or telling people to go break their heads. Not ONE. Usually when people take that route, I just leave them. That was why I wrote earlier that I replied your Downing Street comment only because I took you rather seriously in the past.

Afam:
Tell him abeg.

However, I enjoy seeing adults display their foolishness openly than attempting to correct them.

You know, there was a time I thought you had more than a sliver of decency and a semblance of substance, an honest mistake that led me to engage you. Look at the uncouth statement you just sank your teeth into, desperately jumping at anything anyone says,
“This is why I refused to debate him.”
“This is why I refused to talk with him.”
“Tell him.”
And then gleefully telling people to break their heads. . .

Mariory:
I havn't seen anyone make such a claim on this thread (could be wrong, havn't read through all responses) so this is a non issue.

I haven't either, but elsewhere. I was addressing a major world problem which people outside of Nairaland have and do express their views on.

Nobert Zongo, Kudirat Abiola, , Floribert Chebeya. The sad tale goes on . . .

RSA:
For the first time poor black people can send their children to school from primary to high schools for free,healthcare for everyone in South Africa in public hospital is free,goverment have builded three million houses for poor  people for free.Now if that is not caring for people then tell me what must be done

Applause!

RSA:
^^Thank you,I think we will all agree that Africa has some terrible leaders but if you lives in Africa you'll agree with me that Africa is changing,we no longer have brutal civil wars,and the quality of our current leadership is improving.I personaly feel the birth of a new Africa,that is succesful and united.
South African businessmen knows this,just look at their investment throughout Africa.When Zuma visited Angola he took with him more than 250 businessmen with and I think he will do the same when he visit other African countries including Nigeria.

Africas time has come,and as Africans in Africa let's continue to work hard in building our so called 'cursed' continent,it is our home,our only home.

Applause!!

I see you can talk calmly and sensibly when you decide to. Quit displaying extreme nationalism and hating on Nigerians.

Edit:
Ouch!  I got RSA mixed up with Mpele!  RSA does say sensible things and does not hate on Nigerians. I say sorry in Zulu!

^^^Suits you. Go on deluding yourself and pretending you had anything to say.

Afam:
You dey mind the guy? When I refuse to engage someone on this forum based on gross ignorance some people think I am being mean.

He does not even know anything about the roles of the IMF and World bank in the Zimbabwean economic problem and yet expects me to debate issues with him. I dey craze?

I think not - I won't even insinuate it. I think you just enjoy deluding yourself.

^^^ Sorry about my misquote. I have corrected it.  I was responding to Afam and had no intention of responding to your post. I think the mistake should have been obvious from what I wrote, but you had to jump gleefully at it!

Beaf:
1500BC to now is about 3500 years; aside from that, very good and well reasoned points.

You are right, but you have to do some subtractions - the exile in Babylon, then 70 to 1948. So we can say they got there over 3000 years ago, but not that they have existed as a nation for 3000 years. 70 to 1948 of no nationhood cannot dismissed.

Romeo4real:
As you have confirmed, whilst he was not physically there, his unit was actually responsible for it. More importantly though, he was charged with heading the first real investigation into it. He dismissed it flippantly, well aware that it was true, and swept it under the carpet.
This makes him as responsible as Richard Nixon, Henry Kissinger, Melvin Laird, Col.Henderson, General Westmoreland and anyone else who gave orders, or assisted in covering up the massacre.

Remember, the Nuremberg Trials charged the leadership of the Nazi party, SS, Gestapo, Military Officers, and various other people who assisted in, or help cover up the atrocities.

I get your point, but I still think your illation – “responsible” is rather strong.

Mariory:
So true. Let us not forget that the Palestinians have two claims to territory. Gaza and the West Bank. The problem with Gaza is Hamas, as indeed Egypt too will testify. They didn't close their side of the border for nothing.

Other issues like Jerusalem, the disputed settlements, the border issues. All can be negotiated upon. Of that there is no doubt. I think we can both agree that Israel is here to stay. Having said that, how do you overcome the problem of Hamas, who insist Israel must cease to exist? That is the problem. Everything else is negotiable in theory.

I agree Hamas is and is likely to be a problem. But I do not share the view of those who equate Hamas with Al Qaeda. I have listened extensively to their leaders and the impression I get is that they are fighting for their space. I believe you know about Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat. Begin would be right of Netanyahu(!) and Sadat in his young days was a rabble-rousing radical. Yet these two sat down and signed an accord at Camp David. Hamas can sign. Of course, there will be extremists who will reject it and continue to seek to do terror. But you have extremists in every society.

Mariory: Plus, why do you ask davidylan to provide a way out of the situation?

The Palestinians are there. I do not think Davidylan believes they should simply all jump into the sea as many American Evangelical Christians and some in the Israeli right seem to think. What is his way out, then? I will open a thread and ask for his views.

Afam:
You are sounding like a child who thinks that 1 + 1 is 13 and brags about it even when the answer is 2. Your ignorance knows no bounds whatsoever. I will not be the person to provide any thing to prove you wrong, I am happy the way you are writing rubbish all in the name of having a debate.

It suits you to continue vacuously labeling what others write as "ignorant" and "rubbish" since you are clueless and have nothing to say. Anybody can throw words around, but it is another thing to say anything of substance. Nobody asked you for a debate; you were only asked to substantiate your wild claims. What your friend writes is not worth replying and I already explained why it was necessary to respond to you.

Brilliant comments here. Just brilliant. One is loath to comment on a thread filled with so much insults, but I should make a few observations.

Romeo4real:
Colin Powell, a fully paid up member of the US Government, a war criminal responsible for the Mai Lai massacre in Vietnam, Commander of the U.S. Armed Forces in the Gulf war is being used to defend an assertion as to why Ban Ki Moon is not an authority worth quoting on Israel's recent actions. And you call other people "fools" with "air for brains"?

Maybe I missed it or have forgotten some details and can be enlightened further, but I don’t see how Romeo can say the above highlighted. Powell was nowhere near Mai Lai (the incident) on that horrible day – this is the most important point. Granted he was an officer in an army bizarrely reckoning success by body counts and which shockingly brushed aside Mai Lai, but he was no General making any policies. Granted, also, the “investigation” he headed, like the others conducted by the Army into the incident, was a whitewash. But how does being a member of the unit or leading a sham investigation into the crimes translate to being “a war criminal responsible for the Mai Lai massacre”?

davidylan:
You claimed the "creation" of Israel is illegal . . . unfortunately for you, Israel has existed for 3000 yrs . . . transjordan NEVER existed and is a creation of the British empire.
Interesting that he would rather beat around the bush than explain his own ignorance.

I find 3000 years a bit on the high side, in fact, probably way off by a wide margin. The way I recall it, the nation of Israel arrived there possibly around 1500 BC. They met people living there whom they either killed or drove out or integrated with. Then in 587/586 BC, they were driven out by the Babylonians. They did not return until 537 BC under Governor Zerubbabel, I think. Then in 70 AD, the Romans struck and Israel ceased to exist as a nation until 1948, right?

In any case, I think there will be a lot of chaos about if people were to return to their places of origin just like that. Imagine asking the Oni of Ife to return to Egypt or the Hausa/Fulani of Jos to leave. That is assuming, without conceding, that the children of Israel were the first inhabitants of that place. But the State of Israel is a fact the Arabs will have to deal with. I think even many of those speaking up against Israel’s atrocities here recognise this fact. These words were spoken by a hard line Palestinian militant: “What is all this nonsense about recognising the existence of Israel? Of course, they do exist! They bloody exist on my land!” The problem is not Israel’s existence but the hard line position on both sides. The current circumstances under which Palestinians live is unsustainable, most thinking people would admit. A way out ought to be found out of the stalemate. One of these days Davidylan might tell us how he would go about this.

@Lwandle

You are either brainwashed or you are one of the beneficiaries of Mugabe's misrule. In fact, you remind me of the Zanu-PF Women’s Wing who carry on like Boxer in Animal Farm – Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad. Black Man Good, White Man Bad. That is why you and Afam throw accusations around carelessly. Did any of you see where I spoke in support of the West or the IMF in this thread? No. But then anyone who says anything uncomplimentary about Mugabe and his coarse methods must work for Downing Street and is a product of Western propaganda. These bland remarks made by the lot of you is just the usual tactic. I recall that your Zanu-PF newspapers accused President Obasanjo of same when he only urged caution on the part of Mugabe when the man was in the early stages of trying to destroy country and self.

And what do you mean one person? Maybe you can supply the names of the others who are responsible for Zimbabwe’s crisis apart from Mugabe’s venal cronies in Zanu-PF and those who refuse to acknowledge the truth like you yourself? Do you or anyone here deny the FACTS of the timing of the farm invasions and that they were ordered by Mugabe? Do you deny the fact that that was, at least, the beginning of the problem and not IMF/World Bank conspiracy theories that Afam would have us swallow, only to concoct lies about “wasting time” and “propaganda” and turn them into walls to hide behind to avoid substantiating his claims?

Beaf is as clueless as his pal, Afam (who blows hot air about facts and logic without presenting ONE or refuting ONE and who unwittingly questions an interpretation given by his own pal) hence he is chasing red herrings like “food basket”, “dropping names” (as if any name was mentioned out of context) and all that. Who ever said Tsvangirai has any power? And which is it: "Zimbabwe has never stopped exporting food" or "Zimbabwe was stopped from IMF/World/West/whoever from trading"? Anyway, this has gone on enough. I only got angry and replied Afam the way I did because he is often a reasonable man in other matters and so there is no way I could have overlooked his asinine quip that I hold the fort for Downing Street and the other statements he probably picks up from the mouth Mugabe and touts around without a clue what is talking about.

Beaf:
@MyJoe
What do you call the fact that Zimbabwe has had all its lines of credit cut by Western sanctions and the IMF? How can any nation survive conventionally if it cannot trade?

You will have to show how preventing Mugabe and his cronies from travelling to European capitals to smile at cameras or even having "all its lines of credit cut" equals inability to trade. At what point was Zimbabwe not able to trade? Is not loaning money to Zimbabwe using the same criteria used for other countries what your pal calls conspiring to strangulate Zimbabwe's economy?

Beaf: It seems you are deliberately refusing to think, because your arguments are more like name dropping. I recall refuting your bread basket theories, and unsurprisingly, you have fallen silent on the matter. How about I remind you (just for the hell of it) that Zimbabwe is still exporting food contrary to your unfounded claims?

You refuted nothing. And you did not show how the fact Zimbabwe has now started exporting food (a makeshift coalition government is in place and things have started picking up, which is the subject of your thread) refutes my point that being "self-sufficient" (your words) and exporting food qualifies you as a food basket.

Got to leave here for today.

Afam:
My dear, so if you state here now that OBJ is a woman you expect me to provide facts to challenge that? No sir, I will not do so.

Your analogy is wild. Comparing what I wrote about the major characters in Zimbabwe's politics to Obj as a woman wholly betrays your complete ignorance of Zimbabwean politics. I think all you know about that country is the fact a black president is taking back lands from white people (a project I have acknowledged its necessity). Full stop. Anything remotely seeking to throw some light on the roles played by characters like Mugabe is not worthy of response but must be dismissed as a piece of propaganda e-mailed from Downing Street, as Mugabe and Jonathan Moyo (till he fell out with Bob) have been trying to portray it. To remind you, you refute facts with facts. You have none here, hence all this shadow-chasing. If someone said Obj was a woman I have no sliver of doubt Afam would produce Obj's picture and other objective facts to refute the lie.

Afam: For the simple fact that you cannot even admit the role of IMF and World bank in the economy of Zimbabwe is enough reason for me not to debate that with you.

Even if the IMF and the World Bank have played any role in Zimbabwe's economy since this crisis started around 2000, that was not your claim so I could not have admitted or failed to admit that. You said they conspired to strangulate Zimbabwe's economy, meaning they are responsible or, at least, contributed in no small way, as a matter of deliberate policy, to the economic crisis that country has faced over the past decade.

Here is your statement:

Afam:
But the people of Zimbabwe don't need your sympathies and have made that clear by choosing to stick with Mugabe and to move the economy forward in spite of all the conspiracy by the World bank and IMF to strangulate the economy even when the economic melt down messed up the economies of a lot of countries that the so called IMF and World band were assisting.

Afam: There should be a minimum level of agreement on basic issues before engaging people in debates without which the debate will be meaningless.

This, Mr Afam, is a lie and you know it.

Afam:
It seems you misunderstood me.

I have more than enough facts to challenge some of the positions you stated but based on the extent you have gone by repeating some of the popular lies and propaganda it will be an uphill task making you see anything objectively hence my position on this thread.

I respect facts, logic and common sense and I would not waste my time challenging the same lies over and over again because there will not be any end in sight.

Sorry about this as I cannot oblige you. Get rid of the obvious lies and we can debate this.

This is the Pavlovian response mode.

It does not avail you in your current situation. You talk of "obvious lies" without even stating what those lies are. It is not everyone that argues to win trophies on this forum, so you show me my errors and see if I won't be the first to acknowledge my them. But you would have since done that if you had anything. So you dance round, scream "mistake" without stating its particulars, and have now resorted to this dishonesty in a search for a convenient way out.

Bottom line is: you do not have any facts to back up your claim that the IMF and the World Bank conspired against Zimbabwe and are responsible for the country's current crisis, or to refute any of the FACTS I stated in my response to Lwandle. Facts, Mr Afam, are different from opinions. Facts are either true or false. They can only be refuted with facts.

Afam:
At a time I thought you were just reading a document sent to you from No 10 Downing Street.

Unfortunately, you have gone way too far in swallowing the propaganda and lies that trying to correct them would not make any sense.

So, feel free to believe the lies and propaganda you just re-read. Enjoy.

Obviously desperate to create the impression you know way too much to bother to substantiate the claims you thoughtlessly throw around, right? Truth is, you find yourself lathered in the froth spewed from your own inward parts in your abortive labour to argue a subject you know nothing about. And so you skim through a write-up and seeing a few things you disagree with conclude it must have be written and emailed by the British Prime Minister. Rather than bring points to the table like you do on this forum in matters you are versed in, you attack the substance and the individual with more froth by throwing around more gibberish. Suits you, Mr Afam.

Here, Missy B:

Hungarian Goulash

4 tablespoons butter
1 pound veal cubed
1 pound lean beef cubed
2 cups chopped onion
2 tablespoons sweet paprika
1 cup green pepper
1 can stewed tomatoes
8 cups boiling water
1 1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon ground pepper
3 large cubed potatoes
1/2 cup red burgundy wine

Melt butter in large pot, add cubed veal and beef. cook over medium heat until browned. Add onions and cook until soft. Stir in paprika, salt and pepper. Add undrained stewed tomatoes, green pepper, boiling water and wine. Bring just to a boil, cover and simmer over low heat for 1 1/2 hour or until tender, stirring occasionally. Add cubed potatoes and cook for 20-30 minutes more. Serve in soup bowls with fresh French or sourdough bread or rolls and a green salad if you want. Serves 6.

Note: Like every other soup, you can adjust the ingredients to your own taste. This is a very traditional soup and every Hungarian family tends to have its own unique version of Gulyasleves. Some families would not go near tomatoes, for instance, when putting together goulash. If you don’t have burgundy wine on hand you can substitute a cooking wine, white wine or even water although using water will lose you some of the flavor. Spices that you personally like can also be added. I like celery and like to have that on it.  I have also seen chicken or pork used for the meats and it still turned out well but the beef gives you the authentic flavor. Now my favourite thing to eat HG with is good ol’ rice.

Try it out!

nuclearboy:
More importantly, its not just the RCC that has issues - WOFers believe they are god, anglicans are joining cults and "crowning" lesbians as bishops and pentecostals are saying tithes are the only way to Heaven. Jehovah's witness "babes" (very often here in Ibadan) leave the Kingdom Hall "Conservative", go evangelising and return home "Liberal" and nine months later enter "Labour" . 

nuclearboy:
Olu, ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. The RCC is not immune to that statement!

Well said.

^^^
Well put.

dominique:
well, there has been a lot of conspiracy theories concerning her death. non seems valid enough to hold any water.

Precisely.

Beaf:
Hair splitting? Shame, its the overlooked detail that sells the soul.
Zimbabwe has never been a food basket or bread basket in her region and that is plain fact. Being self sufficient (as you tried to twist it) is very far from being a basket your neighbours rely on, but hey! Western hype and a bare faced lies against fellow Africans are in order.

Nobody said their neighbours relied on them. They were behind South Africa in food production but well ahead of the likes of Zambia, Malawi, Namibia and other countries in the region, some of which still EXPORT food today. If you are not aware that Zimbabwe used to EXPORT food then you missed an important fact. How, in any case, do you compare the situation that obtains today to being self-sufficient (as YOU twist it)? Anyway, I will leave you to continue your pursuit of this very crucial but overlooked detail now. I have already addressed the important issues on this thread in my response to Lwandle.

Beaf:
If you don't know the meaning of the phrase "food basket", you should really withhold commenting on it.

I think you are eminently misguided in your apprehension of the phrase as used in that context. But I see this sort of hair splitting is food around here. Have fun.

texazzpete:
Strategic thinking isn't your strong point, is it?
You allow one armada to break the blockade and you encourage others. And you'll have others running guns and missiles into Gaza.
The naval blockade and the destruction of tunnels is the main reason why the Gaza rocketry is limited to home made Qassam rockets. Imagine the destruction if advanced missiles are being launched from Gaza into Israeli territory. What will you say then?

If your concern is for the people of Gaza, you should also be concerned at the escalation of the doctrine of hatred spread by Hamas.

You are being emotional. These were mainly Western protesters taking food to people in need. You need to understand that. Strategic thinking is fine, but while at it you need to be shrewd less it drops into the realm of paranoia and paranoia becomes your strong point. The movement of the ship would not have been necessary were it not for Israel's callous blockade of Gaza - oh, strategic thinking, that. Even if there were genuine security concerns don't you think it would have been a better strategy to have the commandos escort the ship on sea air and land and search it at destination since Israel is God around there? No, they had to violate international law by boarding it in international waters just to prove a point.  The flotilla protecting commercial ships from armed Somali pirates around the Gulf of Aden follow rules of engagement as laid down in international law. But I guess only the Israelis are allowed rights. Only their security matters. I don't have any love for the Hamas terrorists, but the Israelis are just as bad. In fact, they are worse when you consider the fact that they are an advanced functional state.

Sagamite:
They were unarmed.

If you carry a hammer and attack someone on the road and he in the process picks up a stone on the floor, you can't say you used the hammer because they were armed. The found what they could that would have not been a threat to you if you had not attacked.

Isreal boarded a ship with full force in international waters, the occupants have a right to protect their ship in my view.

This is exactly what happened. I am still struggling to understand the danger posed to Israel by that ship.

Sagamite:
Swedish writers, British human rights activist etc are your definite proof people that are trying to rearm HAMAS?

Add "former US diplomats".

How's ya Mich? 

Interesting poser. I guess when you dry things they compress. If you dry meat, fish, tomatoes or anything else in the sun or over the fire, what is the result you get? And then the reverse process starts when they absorb liquid, right?