Wind dey blow for fowl yansh, tory don change

Turkey Backs Down From Invasion Rhetoric

22nd February, 2016




All the countries of the (NATO) coalition should participate in ground operations in Syria. This statement was made by Foreign Minister of Turkey Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu.

The Turkish Minister added that the issue of conducting such operations is not on the agenda and is not worth it, RIA Novosti reported.

As a reminder, Turkey and Saudi Arabia support the adoption of ground military operations in Syria. Since February 14th, the Turkish military has shelled the positions of the Kurdish militia in Northern Syria. Reports of the presence of Turkish soldiers in Syria has not been confirmed.

Missy89:



So if Russia's intention is to box in Ukraine with an unfeasible agreement, how does it intend to remove sanctions that depends on implementing the same agreement

Aaaarrggghh! You indeed are a woman! No wonder you are "arguing" in this manner.

And no I am not playing the misogynistic card. At first I thought perhaps you didn't get my English. On second thought, i realize this is basically a Mars vs. Venus situation.

You know what a diplomatic masterstroke, a brilliant chess move, a Trojan horse, etc are don't you my dear Missy89?

Kiev has shot itself in the foot; Russia has all the time in the world and the longer the S actions persist, the more Russia can decouple itself totally from the Western financial circle.

Did Russia inform you that they are desirous to have sanctions lifted? Lol, Wetin be ya own? Lookatchu! Yeye dey smell!



Medvedev: "We Will Not Ask for the Lifting of Sanctions. They Will Come to Us"

And so to whether he's lying, bluffing or whatever, that is no concern to you.

Missy89:


Lol @ masterfully. As long as kiev remains boxed in like you claim, sanctions will remain on Russia if minsk is not implemented. So much for masterful tactics.

The implementation of the Minsk 2.0 agreements, followed by the cessation of hostilities and disarmament of the insurgents is one of the requirements to the lifting of sanctions, MK Ultra subject!

*****Thread derailing alert!!!*****

A favourite tactic employed by the CIA asset, Missy89.

Soon we will be talking about the Sino-Russian, Russo-French wars, etc

Missy89:


So why is your master negotiating with this indomie government and not the "legitimate" one hiding in Russia?

Lol @ master. No he's my Lord actually not master.

For the sake of peace, Missy89, for the sake of peace. The Russians are more cautious, diplomatic and savvy than you give them credit for. They aren't gung-ho and jingoistic like the Yanks.

Russia has wielded the diplomatic stick masterfully and now Kiev has been boxed into a corner with the uncomfortable Minsk deal they have been forced to be a party to. Take a look at this latest meme sent to me by my Kremlin masters: You like it, huh?

Scully95, not only the governor of Odessa, Sakaashvili but finance minister as well, Natalie Jaresko. Same thing with other members of the cabinet hand picked by probably the world's most rabid neo-con, Victoria "F**k-the-E.U.-Yats'-Our--Guy Nuland.

Legitimate government ko, indomie government ni!

fineguy11:
OMG,why are convulsing on this thread,is this the best u can come up with?Nikki can construct a better reply than this,she may have little problems in writting but she knows how to make her point,and most importantly,when she has none,she shuts up and learn..u should take a cue from Nikki.


NB:nikki is my 6 months old turkey.

I taya o. Reason I labeled him a kid. The responses he and his cohort have provided are so weak, so off point & of no substance. They are like MK ULTRA experiments gone wrong.

And he's bearing Ghadaffi's name! What a sad irony!

Missy89:


Keep displaying ya ignorance.

Most fighters in the Donbass are foreigners as well (Most of them are from Russia) - check
Donbass terrorists are fighting a legitimate government too - check
Syrian opposition rebels have attended tonnes of peace talks some even brokered by Russia and the EU and the UN - check
Donbass terrorists have killed extra judicially too ( go and watch novorosiya tv) - check

"Donbass terrorists", "legitimate government"? Lol! Ok there is no point really. It was your likes that that Boston Globe article was talking about.

OBAGADAFFI:


Lol @ winning.

Who is competing with you.

You seems to be masturbating too much on your fictional wars these days.

Again, I can tell that you are either 1. A kid 2. A novice out of his depths or perhaps a combination of both. Good luck!

Missy89:


I know you can read properly. If I support Russia's right to intervene in ukraine and think Turkey is entitled to the same right too, how is that hypocrisy. You need to keep digging.

Being so pro Russia seems to be affecting your ability to think logically. Russian speaking sepratists are "rebels" fighting for self determination even thou they are engaged in a armed insurrection against a recognised state but the turkmens are "terrorists" for doing the same in syria?.

You guys need to try harder.

Sigh! You like to disregard someone's points sha and to twist things which in the end leaves a trail of a convoluted and incoherent point you are trying to make.

In that brilliant head of yours a motley crew of head chopping, liver eating, foreign backed and mostly foreign originated fanatics - who have refused to attend peace talks by the way- and who are fighting to unseat a legitimate government EQUATES to armed insurgents (backed by Russia or not) in Ukraine who are asking for constitutional reforms and greater autonomous recognition?? So much for logic! Lol!

Ok, I'll ask Putin to stop bombing these ISIS collaborating Turkmen and rather focus on Al-Nusra, ISIS, Jaish Al-Islam, Ahrar Al-Islam and the likes exclusively. There! Happy?

You are still in support of Putin's actions in Syria I hope?

Off to bed. Fulfilled the propaganda quota for today. It continues tomorrow...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/america-is-now-fighting-a-proxy-war-with-itself-in-syria

American foreign policy at its best: exceptional and indispensable. What could possibly go wrong?

Appleyard, cyprus000, zoharariel, scully95, fineguy11, Tkester, capip120

[size=18pt]America Is Now Fighting A Proxy War With Itself In Syria[/size]
Confusion in the Obama administration’s Syria policy is playing out on the ground as U.S.-backed groups begin battling each other.

posted on Feb. 20, 2016, at 1:03 p.m.
Mike Giglio
Mike Giglio
BuzzFeed News Middle East Correspondent

Reporting From
Istanbul, Turkey
TweetTumblr

A YPG fighter stands near a wall on the Syria-Turkey border. Delil Souleiman / AFP / Getty Images

ISTANBUL — American proxies are now at war with each other in Syria.

Officials with Syrian rebel battalions that receive covert backing from one arm of the U.S. government told BuzzFeed News that they recently began fighting rival rebels supported by another arm of the U.S. government.

The infighting between American proxies is the latest setback for the Obama administration’s Syria policy and lays bare its contradictions as violence in the country gets worse.

The confusion is playing out on the battlefield — with the U.S. effectively engaged in a proxy war with itself. “It’s very strange, and I cannot understand it,” said Ahmed Othman, the commander of the U.S.-backed rebel battalion Furqa al-Sultan Murad, who said he had come under attack from U.S.-backed Kurdish militants in Aleppo this week.

Furqa al-Sultan Murad receives weapons from the U.S. and its allies as part of a covert program, overseen by the CIA, that aids rebel groups struggling to overthrow the government of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, according to rebel officials and analysts tracking the conflict.

The Kurdish militants, on the other hand, receive weapons and support from the Pentagon as part of U.S. efforts to fight ISIS. Known as the People’s Protection Units, or YPG, they are the centerpiece of the Obama administration’s strategy against the extremists in Syria and coordinate regularly with U.S. airstrikes.

Yet as Assad and his Russian allies have routed rebels around Aleppo in recent weeks — rolling back Islamist factions and moderate U.S. allies alike, as aid groups warn of a humanitarian catastrophe — the YPG has seized the opportunity to take ground from these groups, too.

In the face of public objections from U.S. officials and reportedly backed by Russian airstrikes, the YPG has overrun key villages in the northern provinces of Aleppo and Idlib. It now threatens the town of Azaz, on the border with Turkey, through which rebel groups have long received crucial supplies. Over the weekend, Turkey began shelling YPG positions around Azaz in response, raising another difficult scenario for the U.S. in which its proxy is under assault from its NATO ally.

Yet as America has looked on while Russia and Syria target its moderate rebel partners, it has failed to stop the YPG from attacking them too. “That is a major problem,” said Andrew Tabler, a Syria specialist at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. “It’s not just that it’s a nonsense policy. It’s that we’re losing influence so rapidly to the Russians that people just aren’t listening to us anymore.”

Othman, the Furqa al-Sultan Murad commander, said the YPG tried to seize two areas of Aleppo under his control, resulting in firefights that left casualties on both sides. He had captured seven YPG fighters and was holding them prisoner, he added.

Othman’s group receives weapons from the U.S. and its allies, including TOW anti-tank missiles, he said, and fights Assad as well as ISIS. The aid is part of a long-running CIA effort approved by Congress and coordinated from an operations room in Turkey with participation from international allies of the rebellion such as Saudi Arabia. Othman said he was in regular contact with his American handlers about the problems on the ground. “The Americans must stop [the YPG] — they must tell them you are attacking groups that we support just like we support you,” he said. “But they are just watching. I don’t understand U.S. politics.”

New recruits take part in a training session at a camp in a rebel-held area of Aleppo before fighting along with opposition fighters. Karam Al-masri / AFP / Getty Images

Officials with three other groups — the Northern Division, Jaysh al-Mujahideen and a coalition called Jabhat al-Shamiya — that have received support from the operations room also said they were now battling the YPG in northern Syria. “There are many groups supported by [the operations room] that are fighting the YPG right now,” said the Northern Division’s Col. Ahmed Hamada, who added that some of his fighters had received U.S. training in the past.

An official with the Turkish government criticized the U.S. for what he described as a Syria policy gone awry. “The YPG is taking land and villages from groups that are getting American aid,” he said, speaking on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the subject. “These are groups that are not only getting American aid. Some of them also got training from the Americans.”

The official added that U.S.-backed Arab rebel groups had seen their support dwindle of late, while the YPG was benefiting from a surge of interest from both Washington and Moscow. “The Americans are not giving the moderate rebels enough material. They are not providing any political support,” he said. “And they did not stop the YPG from attacking them.”

“They said we are not in control of the YPG in [those areas],” he added. “That’s the official answer. It doesn’t make any sense to us. What can I say?”

In an emailed statement, Col. Patrick J. Ryder, a spokesman for the U.S. Central Command, which oversees support for the YPG, said he had no information to provide “regarding potential friction between various opposition groups.”

“Syria continues to be a very complex and challenging environment,” he said. “I can tell you that we remain focused on supporting indigenous anti-[ISIS] ground forces in their fight against [ISIS].”

A State Department official acknowledged the increasingly problematic situation. “We’ve expressed to all parties that recent provocative moves in northern Syria, which have only served to heighten tensions and lessen the focus on [ISIS], are counterproductive and undermine our collective, cooperative efforts in northern Syria to degrade and defeat [ISIS],” he told BuzzFeed News, likewise speaking on condition of anonymity.

A spokesman for the YPG declined to comment. Yet the group appears to be battling Islamists and U.S.-backed moderates alike, said Faysal Itani, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. “The YPG has also been physically capturing territory [around] Azaz, amid Russian bombing and regime progress further south in Aleppo province,” he said. “I see these moves as opportunistic, capitalizing on the insurgent losses in the province to increase YPG territory.”

The YPG is the Syrian branch of the Kurdistan Worker’s Party, or PKK, the insurgent force warring with the Turkish government in the country’s restive southeast. Both Washington and Ankara list the PKK as a terror group. Yet to Turkey’s increasing anger, the U.S. has sought to differentiate between the PKK and the YPG, promoting the latter as a key partner. In late January, Brett McGurk, President Obama’s special envoy to the anti-ISIS coalition, paid a visit to the YPG in the Syrian town of Kobane, which U.S. airstrikes had helped the group defend from ISIS last year.

The YPG fits well with the Obama administration’s growing hesitance to confront Assad: it has long maintained a détente with the Syrian government, focusing instead on pushing back ISIS and other extremists from Kurdish land.

As part of its embrace of the YPG, the Pentagon has propped up a new YPG-dominated military coalition called the Syrian Democratic Front (SDF) and encouraged smaller Arab battalions to join. In October, the U.S. government air-dropped a crate of weapons to the SDF in Syria, and it has also embedded special forces advisors with the group. This is both a bid to give U.S. support to the YPG some political cover and a nod to the reality that driving ISIS from its Sunni Arab strongholds will require significant help from Sunni Arab fighters.

A Department of Defense official sought to distance U.S. efforts from recent YPG offensives around Aleppo. He said the U.S. was supporting the group east of the Euphrates River, in its fight against ISIS, but not in its new campaign against rebel groups to the west. “Some of the Kurdish groups west of the Euphrates” have been “engaging with some Syrian opposition groups,” he said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“What’s important here is that we are not providing any direct support to these groups,” he added. “Our operations have been focused on the SDF east of the Euphrates as they fight ISIS.”

The battle between America’s two proxies reflects the competing impulses of the Obama administration’s Syria policy. “The SDF model is meant to replace the failed [operations room] model,” said Nicholas Heras, an analyst at the Center for a New American Security.

Yet he noted that groups like Furqa al-Sultan Murad are battling ISIS as well as Assad — and still considered a bulwark against the extremists by the U.S. “It is a front-line combatant against ISIS,” he said of the battalion.

The recent clashes could make it difficult for the U.S. to build the crucial Arab component of its ISIS fight, the Washington Institute’s Tabler said. “If this continues, the U.S. is only going to have one option it can work with, which is the YPG. It’s not going to have the Arab option,” he said. “Which would be fine if the Kurds were the majority of the Syrian population, but they’re not. We need Sunni Arabs to defeat ISIS.”

With additional reporting from Munzer al-Awad in Turkey.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/18/the-media-are-misleading-public-syria/8YB75otYirPzUCnlwaVtcK/story.html

That's right! People such as Missy89, Valeriansteel, vedaxcool, OBAGADAFFI, etc are unfortunately being greatly misled and misinformed. Like the majority of the American populace, they are zombies regurgitating whatever the govenrment feeds them. God will help them sha

What has brought about this different tune from the U.S. media I wonder? Is it because the SAA, NDF, Hezbollah, the Kurds and the Iranian Republican Guards have Uncle Sam's "moderate" rebels surrounded like rats in Aleppo? hmmmmm

[size=18pt]The media are misleading the public on Syria[/size]



New recruits trained to fight alongside opposition in Aleppo, Syria.
AFP/GETTY IMAGES


By Stephen Kinzer FEBRUARY 18, 2016
COVERAGE OF the Syrian war will be remembered as one of the most shameful episodes in the history of the American press. Reporting about carnage in the ancient city of Aleppo is the latest reason why.

For three years, violent militants have run Aleppo. Their rule began with a wave of repression. They posted notices warning residents: “Don’t send your children to school. If you do, we will get the backpack and you will get the coffin.” Then they destroyed factories, hoping that unemployed workers would have no recourse other than to become fighters. They trucked looted machinery to Turkey and sold it.


This month, people in Aleppo have finally seen glimmers of hope. The Syrian army and its allies have been pushing militants out of the city. Last week they reclaimed the main power plant. Regular electricity may soon be restored. The militants’ hold on the city could be ending.

Militants, true to form, are wreaking havoc as they are pushed out of the city by Russian and Syrian Army forces. “Turkish-Saudi backed ‘moderate rebels’ showered the residential neighborhoods of Aleppo with unguided rockets and gas jars,” one Aleppo resident wrote on social media. The Beirut-based analyst Marwa Osma asked, “The Syrian Arab Army, which is led by President Bashar Assad, is the only force on the ground, along with their allies, who are fighting ISIS — so you want to weaken the only system that is fighting ISIS?”

This does not fit with Washington’s narrative. As a result, much of the American press is reporting the opposite of what is actually happening. Many news reports suggest that Aleppo has been a “liberated zone” for three years but is now being pulled back into misery.

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Americans are being told that the virtuous course in Syria is to fight the Assad regime and its Russian and Iranian partners. We are supposed to hope that a righteous coalition of Americans, Turks, Saudis, Kurds, and the “moderate opposition” will win.

This is convoluted nonsense, but Americans cannot be blamed for believing it. We have almost no real information about the combatants, their goals, or their tactics. Much blame for this lies with our media. [Lol!


Under intense financial pressure, most American newspapers, magazines, and broadcast networks have drastically reduced their corps of foreign correspondents. Much important news about the world now comes from reporters based in Washington. In that environment, access and credibility depend on acceptance of official paradigms. Reporters who cover Syria check with the Pentagon, the State Department, the White House, and think tank “experts.” After a spin on that soiled carousel, they feel they have covered all sides of the story. This form of stenography produces the pabulum that passes for news about Syria.

Astonishingly brave correspondents in the war zone, including Americans, seek to counteract Washington-based reporting. At great risk to their own safety, these reporters are pushing to find the truth about the Syrian war. Their reporting often illuminates the darkness of groupthink. Yet for many consumers of news, their voices are lost in the cacophony. Reporting from the ground is often overwhelmed by the Washington consensus.

Washington-based reporters tell us that one potent force in Syria, al-Nusra, is made up of “rebels” or “moderates,” not that it is the local al-Qaeda franchise. Saudi Arabia is portrayed as aiding freedom fighters when in fact it is a prime sponsor of ISIS. Turkey has for years been running a “rat line” for foreign fighters wanting to join terror groups in Syria, but because the United States wants to stay on Turkey’s good side, we hear little about it. Nor are we often reminded that although we want to support the secular and battle-hardened Kurds, Turkey wants to kill them. Everything Russia and Iran do in Syria is described as negative and destabilizing, simply because it is they who are doing it — and because that is the official line in Washington.

Damn! This journalist must have been paid by the Kremlin! Senator McCain won't like this. Whaddayathink, Missy89, Valeriansteel, vedaxcool, OBAGADAFFI?

Inevitably, this kind of disinformation has bled into the American presidential campaign. At the recent debate in Milwaukee, Hillary Clinton claimed that United Nations peace efforts in Syria were based on “an agreement I negotiated in June of 2012 in Geneva.” The precise opposite is true. In 2012 Secretary of State Clinton joined Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Israel in a successful effort to kill Kofi Annan’s UN peace plan because it would have accommodated Iran and kept Assad in power, at least temporarily. No one on the Milwaukee stage knew enough to challenge her.

Politicians may be forgiven for distorting their past actions. Governments may also be excused for promoting whatever narrative they believe best suits them. Journalism, however, is supposed to remain apart from the power elite and its inbred mendacity. In this crisis it has failed miserably.

Americans are said to be ignorant of the world. We are, but so are people in other countries. If people in Bhutan or Bolivia misunderstand Syria, however, that has no real effect. Our ignorance is more dangerous, because we act on it. The United States has the power to decree the death of nations. It can do so with popular support because many Americans — and many journalists — are content with the official story. In Syria, it is: “Fight Assad, Russia, and Iran! Join with our Turkish, Saudi, and Kurdish friends to support peace!” This is appallingly distant from reality. It is also likely to prolong the war and condemn more Syrians to suffering and death.

Stephen Kinzer is a senior fellow at the Watson Institute for International Studies at Brown University. Follow him on Twitter @stephenkinzer.

OBAGADAFFI:


Russian troll talking about paygrade, if you really know what it means.

What happened to Russia when, Gaddafi and Mubarak were going down.

Can you tell me Russian adventures in Syria started?

I thought by now the Russians will be shooting down every Turk's around Syria, after the SU attack.

But It seems Putin is not taking any advice from you self-hyping NL trolls.

"Troll" LOL!
No vex you hear? I can't imagine how hard it is for you right now to see me winning and you losing and sulking. See the beautiful picture below. You see that? Just like the Debaltsevo cauldron, another is forming in Aleppo. Hurry up your Saudi wahhabi crazies and their Ottoman brothers to save their brothers before its too late o biko!

Lemme get back to my propaganda. I got daily quotas to fulfill lest the Kremlin sanction me!

PS: If you don't know what the Debaltsevo cauldron was, CIA agent, Missy89 would be more than capable to explain.

By the way, Missy89, so just know that I have framed this and its hanging on the wall in my room

OBAGADAFFI:
LOL,

Just look at what Russia has been reduced to in Syria.

I thought they were bragging at the US government.

Now the US has handed them over to the Turk's and Saudis.

This is exactly what the Arab League wanted.

I just pity that man called Bashar al-Assad.

Hahahahaha!

Geopolitics is beyond your paygrade Oga. First, if the U.S. is so tough and exceptional as they say they are ( this isn't Hollywood my friend) they should seize the opportunity and do the job themselves or at least join their Saudi wahhabi crazies and Turkish allies.
Second, you are apparently not aware that the U.S. has warned Turkey that they are basically on their own should they choose to tango with Russia.

"We will invade, we will invade we swear!" Is all we hear......The Russians are ready. Are Turkey and Saudi?

PS: Your user name, based on your views, is an insult by the way to Ghadaffi

ValerianSteel:
Russia has been making threats against Turkey for two months now and hasn't actualized a single one.

Lol! What threats? Can you name just one!
On the contrary, Russia is patiently waiting on Turkey do make good on its own threats (border incursion, buffer zone, no flight zone, not to let Azaz fall to the Kurds, etc) then Russia will come out to play. Right now it has no reason to.
What do you want? For Russia to just attack Turkey when it achieves no strategic or geopolitical objective? When Russia's goals or personnel haven't been threatened in any way by Turkey? Please explain to me..

Russia is already doing what it's in Syria for. which is to defeat the terrorists, reinforce the legitimate government of Syria and win back territory lost to these beloved moderate rebels - and guess what, it is achieving exactly just that! We are winning, you are losing - and pathetically at that! Sorry ehn?!

Missy89:


So people that were killed in the donbass are collateral damage for Russia's interest and it is acceptable because Russia is the only country allowed to have geopolitical goals?

Please don't hide under " I won't bother to expantiate". You should. One might say what fucking interest does Russia have in Ukraine and training and arming terrorists masquerading as rebels and sepratists there. It is funny you are not seeing the hypocrisy of your logic

Wow! F**king is no longer censored by Nairaland's spambot.

Anyway, since your genius self has refused to see the disparity in the two situations, I'll break it down for ya in very simple English:


Ukraine: a coup some days after the govt had arrived at an agreement and unity govt of some sorts with the opposition, is planned, instigated and funded by the United States (Victoria Nuland, $5 billion opposition groups investments, "f**k the EU", "Yats is the preferred choice", etc) is executed by far right Russophobic groups which in turn puts the Russian speaking inhabitants of eastern Ukraine and Crimea in harms way. The people of the Donbass and Crimea in the spirit of self determination and freedom (Uncle Sam's favorite mantra for exporting its selective democracy) are defiant and decide that they want no part in the new government that it is literally constituted in key positions by neo-nazi elements. The people of Crimea hold a referendum and decide to reunite with Russia. Russia knowing the absolute strategic importance of keeping her naval bases in the Crimea in light of the Hegemon's desire to completely encircle her, decides that it is in the best interest of Russia to annex Crimea. The people of Donbass also hold their referendum and decide to join Russia. Russia in a good will gesture (& perhaps out of uncertainty as to how US/NATO would react) rules annexation of Crimes out but is committed to protecting the Russian speaking people of the Donbass from the government's onslaught. They support the rebels, send in columns of humanitarian aid and in the wake of severe provocations such as the downing of Mh17, even manage to bring the warring sides to the negotiating table (Minsk 1.0 and Minsk 2.0 - of which the Ukranian govt is yet to fulfill the requirements but rather shells the Donbass occasionally till today).

Enter Turkey: connives with its Sunni Arab middle eastern neighbors Saudi Arabia and Qatar to undermine and destabilize the government of its secular but Shia leaning Arab neighbour, Syria, by funding, training, arming and shipping extremists under the guise that these "rebels" (moderates they like to empathize) are fighting for a "democratic" Syria. These extremists following the intervention of Russia - Russia knowing fully well that they are next in line for a foreign funded sedition using these terrorists - intervenes (under international law, mind you) on behalf of its ally the Syrian government with the aim that they rather fight the Islamists here than in the Caucusus. Turkey

Turkey also brazenly launches a campaign of genocide against the Kurds in Iraq and Syria - groups that are ironically also supported by the U.S. (Again in the spirit of self determination and freedom except if it runs contrary to the Hegemon's self interest like in the case of the people of the Donbass and Crimea )

Now explain to me what the similarities are genius!

Missy89:
If anyone believe in Russia's right of protecting her interest in her near abroad and supported what Putin did in Ukraine and is against Turkey doing the same in Syria then you are nothing but a Russian shill.

What is Good for the goose is good for the gander.

Lookatchu! Is this what your "argument" has been reduced to? Oma se o!

What f**king interest is Turkey (and Saudi Arabia & Qatar, their US & Israeli lords, etc) protecting by harboring, funded and training vile Islamic terrorists to unseat a stable, secular government just because they want to build a freaking pipeline or enforce their Sunni influence in that region? What f**king interest?

I can't believe you are equating the events in the Donbass (won't even bother to expantiate) to Turkey's interests in Syria/Iraq! What just has the world turned to?

Zoharariel, please rewrite what I just posted in that sweet manner that you always do.

Zoharariel:



1.) Make sure the 1st nuclear missile target in Saudi-Arabia is the Kaaba so that I can tell my muslim neighbour who is fond of telling me - “I am going to Mecca, I am going to Mecca” - to change his pilgrim destination to the Taman Budaya Sentul Amusement Park in Jarkata Indonesia.

2.) Make sure the 5th nuclear missile target in Amerika (Because I already know that the 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th targets are WhiteHouse, Pentagon, Langley & WallStreet) is directed at the city of Pontiac in Michigan so that my heartless Ex-woman friend can be roasted like Asun (roasted goat meat) for breaking my heart by emigrating to Amerika in 2014 without telling me until a week later. I have not been able to love ever since.

You are funny o. You haf come again u dis mad man. My belle wan burst.

The attacks should be limited to Langley & Wall Street though. Those are the real seats of power not where the puppet resides in 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Besides the fallout will also affect all those other areas in Washington DC.

And what is this report about Saudi Arabia now possessing nuclear weapons and threatening to use it to protect their troops in the event of a ground invasion? Empty threats? Hogwash? What is the House of Saud's and Madman Erdogan's play here?

My rational thoughts tell me that they aren't crazy enough to risk a war with Russia but those same rational thoughts tell me that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey and the US have invested far too much into this Syria adventure to just throw in the towel this late.....Dangerous times these are

Week Nineteen of the Russian Intervention in Syria: would Russia use nukes to defend Khmeimim?




The past week saw no decrease in the tense confrontation between Turkey and Russia over Syria. While Russia’s position is simple – ‘we are ready to fight’ – the Turkish position is much more ambiguous: Turkish politicians are saying one thing, then the opposite and then something else again. At times they make it sound like an invasion is imminent, and at times they say that “Turkey plans no unilateral invasion”. Since a UN authorized invasion of Syria will never happen, this means some kind of “coalition of the willing”, possibly NATO. The problem here is that the Europeans have no desire to end up in a war against Russia. At the same time, the US and France refuse to allow a UN Resolution which would reaffirm the sovereignty of Syria. Yup, that’s right. The US and France apparently think that the UN Charter (which affirms the sovereignty of all countries) does not apply to Syria. Go figure…

There are persistent rumors that top Turkish military commanders, categorically oppose any attack on Syria and that they want no part in a war with Russia. I don’t blame them one bit as they understand perfectly well two simple things: first, Turkey does not need a war, only Erdogan does; second, when Turkey is defeated, Erdogan will blame the military. There are also signs of disagreements inside the USA over the prospects of such a war, with the Neocons backing Erdogan and pushing him towards war just as they had done with Saakashvili while the White House and Foggy Bottom are telling Erdogan to “cool it”. As for the Turks themselves, they have shelled Kurdish and Syrian positions across the border and, on at least two occasions, a small military force has been seen crossing the border.

From a purely military point of view, it makes absolutely no sense for the Turks to mass at the border, declare that they are about to invade, then stop, do some shelling and then only send a few little units across the border. What the Turks should have done was to covertly begin to increase the level of readiness of their forces then and then attacked as soon as Russians detected their preparations even if that meant that they would have to initiate combat operations before being fully mobilized and ready. The advantages of a surprise attack are so big that almost every other consideration has to be put aside in order to achieve it. The Turks did the exact opposite: they advertised their intentions to invade and once their forces were ready, they simply stopped at the border and began issuing completely contradictory declarations. This makes absolutely no sense at all.

What complicates this already chaotic situation is that Erdogan is clearly a lunatic and that there appears to the at least the possibility of some serious infighting between the Turkish political leaders and the military.

Furthermore, there appears to be some very bad blood between the USA and the Erdogan regime. Things got so bad that Erdogan’s chief adviser, Seref Malkoc, said that Turkey might deny the US the use of the Incirlik Air Base for strikes against ISIL if the US does not name the YPG as a terrorist group. Erdogan later repudiated this statement, but the fact remains that the Turks are now directly blackmailing the USA. If Erdogan and his advisors seriously believe that they can publicly blackmail a superpower like the USA then their days are numbered. At the very least, this kind of irresponsible outbursts shows that the Turks are really crumbling under the pressure they themselves have created.

Still, the fact that Turkey has not invaded yet is a tiny minute sign that maybe, just maybe, the Turks will give up on this crazy notion or that they will limit themselves to a ‘mini-invasion’ just a few miles across the border. The military would probably prefer such a minimal face saving option, but what about Erdogan and the crazies around him?

Maybe the Turkish military ought to realize that the country is ruled by the madman and do something about it?

Still, the Russians are taking no chances and they have put all their forces into high alert. They have very publicly dispatched a Tu-214r – her most advanced ISR (Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance) aircraft. You can think of the Tu-214R as an “AWACS for the ground”, the kind of aircraft you use to monitor a major ground battle (the regular Russian A-50Ms are already monitoring the Syrian airspace). In southern Russia, the Aerospace forces have organized large-scale exercises involving a large number of aircraft which would be used in a war against Turkey: SU-34s. The Airborne Forces are ready. The naval task forces off the Syrian coast is being augmented. The delivery of weapons has accelerated. The bottom line is simple and obvious: the Russians are not making any threats – they are preparing for war. In fact, by now they are ready.

This leaves an important question to be asked: what would the Russians do if their still relatively small force in Syria is attacked and over-run by the Turks? Would the Russian use nuclear weapons?

At least one reporter, Robert Parry, as written the following: “A source close to Russian President Vladimir Putin told me that the Russians have warned Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that Moscow is prepared to use tactical nuclear weapons if necessary to save their troops in the face of a Turkish-Saudi onslaught”. Is that really possible? Would the Russians really use nuclear weapons of things get ugly in Syria?

The Russian Military Doctrine is very clear on the use of nuclear weapons by Russia. This is the relevant paragraph:

27. The Russian Federation reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use against her and (or) her allies of nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction, as well as in the case of aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons in a way which would threaten her very existence as a state. The decision to use nuclear weapons is taken by the President of the Russian Federation.
There is no ambiguity here. Unless Russia is threatened as a state she will not use nuclear weapons. Some will, no doubt, say that the official military doctrine is one thing, but the reality in Syria is another one and if the Turks overrun Khmeimim Russia will have no other option than to use nukes. There is a precedent for that kind of logic: when the US deployed the 82nd Airborne in Saudi Arabia as part of Desert Shield the Pentagon fully understood that if the much larger Iraqi army invaded Saudi Arabia the 82nd would be destroyed. It was hoped that the USAF and USN could provide enough air sorties to stop the Iraqi advance, but if not it was understood that tactical nuclear weapons would be used. The situation in Syria is different.

For one thing, the Russian task force in Syria is not an infantry tripwire force like the 82nd in Iraq. The terrain and the opposing forces are also very different. Second, the Russian contingent in Syria can count on the firepower and support of the Russian Navy in the Caspian and Mediterranean and the Russian Aerospace Forces from Russia proper. Last but not least, the Russians can count in the support of the Syrian military, Iranian forces, Hezbollah and, probably, the Syrian Kurds who are now openly joining the 4+1 alliance (Russia, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Hezbollah) turning it into a 4+2 alliance I suppose.

There is one important feature of this 4+2 alliance which ought to really give the Turks a strong incentive to be very careful before taking any action: every member of this 4+2 alliance has an extensive military experience, a much better one than the Turkish military. The modern Turkish military is much more similar to the Israeli military in 2006 – it has a great deal of experience terrorizing civilians and it is not a force trained to fight “real” wars. There is a very real risk for the Turks that if they really invade Syria they might end up facing the same nightmare as the Israelis did when they invaded Lebanon in 2006.

In the meantime, the Russian backed Syrian forces are still advancing. Since the beginning of their counter-offensive the Syrians have succeeded in recapturing all of the strategic locations in western Syria in slow and incremental steps and they are now threatening Raqqa. See for yourself:



The bottom line is this: the size and capabilities of the Russian task force in Syria has been expanding and the level of collaborations between the elements of the 4+2 alliance has been increasing. Add to this the capability to deploy a regimental-size (and fully mechanized) Airborne force in Latakia if needed, and you will begin to see that the Turks would be taking a major risk if they attacked Russian forces even if Russia does not threaten the use of tactical nukes. In fact, I don’t see any scenario short of a massive US/NATO attack under which Russia would use her tactical nuclear weapons.

Frankly, this situation is far from resolved. It is no coincidence that just when a ceasefire was supposed to come into effect two terrorist attacks in Turkey are oh-so-conveniently blamed on the Kurds. It sure looks like somebody is trying hard to set Turkey on a collision course with Russia, doesn’t it?

Making predictions about what the Turks and their Saudi friends will do makes no sense. We are clearly dealing with two regimes which are gradually “losing it”: they are lashing out at everybody (including their US patrons), they are terrified of their own minorities (Kurds and Shia) and their propensity for violence and terror is only matched by their inability in conventional warfare. Does that remind you of somebody else?

Of course! The Ukronazis fit this picture perfectly. Well, guess what, they are dreaming of forming an anti-Russian alliance with the Turks now. Amazing no? Just imagine what a Ukrainian-Turkish-Saudi alliance would look like: a real life “Islamo-Fascist” gang of thugs combining hateful fanaticism, corruption, violence, strident nationalism and military incompetence. A toxic combination for sure, but not a viable one.

The Saker

scully95:


in russia's military doctrine, it can use nukes to pin point large targets and destroy it.. not like the crazy u.s bombed japan..
russia explained it in its military doctrine.. even its latest or upgraded grads,....

And as deadly as the Grads are, they are even smaller compared to the Uragans or Smerchs

Appleyard, cyprus000, zoharariel, scully95, fineguy11, Tkester, capip120

http://thesaker.is/did-russia-just-threaten-turkey-with-nuclear-weapons/


[Note by the Saker: I do not believe that Russia has made such a threat and I will post my reasons for this in the next 24 hours. However, I might be wrong and Mercouris and Perry right, I therefore feel like I should post this analysis]

Reports say a source close to Putin claims Russia warned Erdogan of readiness to use tactical nuclear weapons to defend Russian strike force in Syria from Turkish attack

Russia Insiderby Alexander Mercouris for Russia Insider: http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/did-russia-just-threaten-turkey-nuclear-weapons/ri12936

The US investigative journalist Robert Parry has made an astonishing claim – and one that has gone completely unnoticed.

He is reporting that the Russian government has warned Erdogan that Russia is prepared to use tactical nuclear weapons to defend its Syrian strike force from Turkish attack.

Parry’s exact words are as follows:

“A source close to Russian President Vladimir Putin told me that the Russians have warned Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that Moscow is prepared to use tactical nuclear weapons if necessary to save their troops in the face of a Turkish-Saudi onslaught.
Since Turkey is a member of NATO, any such conflict could quickly escalate into a full-scale nuclear confrontation.”
Generally I would be skeptical of such a story from an anonymous source. However Parry is a journalist of the highest reliability and integrity so there can be no doubt he actually has been told this by a real source.

Of course it is possible the source is making the story up, or that he is not as close to Putin as Parry believes.

However on 11th February 2016 Russia’s Security Council held a meeting the public report of which is unusually terse, whilst on the same day the Russian military reported to Putin about a series of military exercises arranged at short notice in their southern military district, which look like they were intended to prepare the Russian military for rapid action at short notice against Turkey should the need arise.

If a warning really was given it might have been given either on that day or possibly on the day after, to coincide with the military exercises whose meaning in that case would not be lost on either the US or the Turks.

The meeting of the Security Council (whose importance I discussed here) would in that case have been convened to discuss and authorise it.

The fact Obama telephoned Putin a day later on 14th February 2016 might also be connected to the warning, if it really was given.

Both the Turks and the Russians would surely have informed the US of such a warning. It would be entirely understandable in that case that the US President would want to discuss it with the Russian President. In fact it would be astonishing if he did not want to.

If it was the warning Obama and Putin discussed, then that might explain why the US and the Russians are giving such completely different accounts of the conversation.

Neither side would want to make the warning public – something which would escalate the crisis to stratospheric levels – and each would want to concoct a cover story to hide what was really discussed, which given the circumstances and the urgency they might be unlikely to coordinate with each other. That might explain why the accounts of the conversation differ so much.

Against that it must be said that it is by no means unusual for Russian and Western governments to publish radically different accounts of conversations Russian and Western leaders have with each other.

All this it should be stressed is speculation, though as is apparent it is consistent with some of the diplomatic and military moves.

If such a warning really was given it would not be the first time the US or Russia have threatened to use nuclear weapons.

The US for example warned Saddam Hussein in 1990 that it was ready to retaliate with nuclear weapons if he used chemical weapons against their troops in the First Gulf War.

However a threat to use nuclear weapons is one that is never made lightly. If it really was made it shows how fraught the situation in Syria has become.

If the Russians really did make such a threat then it would be a further reason why the US and its European allies would be urging Erdogan to act with restraint, and would be counselling him against plunging into a war with the Russians in Syria.

I had already guessed this was the case (see here and here) and in the same article in which he reports the Russian threat Parry discusses this issue extensively.

Confirmation that the Western powers are warning Erdogan against an invasion of Syria has now also come from the Financial Times (see “Turkey and Saudi Arabia consider Syria intervention”, Financial Times, 18th February 2016):

“The US is seeking to rein in its allies Turkey and Saudi Arabia from military action in Syria if a ceasefire planned for today in the bloody civil war fails.
Despite mounting regional frustration over Washington’s allegedly passive stance on the five-year-old conflict the Obama administration and other western powers are worried that direct military interventions could lead to an escalation of the conflict and a dangerous clash with Russia.
“Are they going to deploy troops there? Not if we can help it,” said one senior Nato diplomat.””
Each day now provides further news of advances by the Syrian army and its allies in northern Syria.

The very latest information is that the last major rebel held town in Latakia province has been recaptured by the Syrian army, and that the Syrian army is just a few kilometres away from the city of Idlib.

Slowly but surely the trap around the jihadi rebels in Aleppo is closing.

Meanwhile – whether because of warnings from Moscow or Washington or for some other reason – the Turks and the Saudis have so far not matched their rhetoric with action.

The much discussed Saudi aircraft deployment to the US airbase at Incirlik has turned out to be much smaller than initially reported, and may not actually have taken place.

The Turks are publicly sticking to their position that they will not send their troops into Syria unilaterally – which could be taken to mean they will not invade Syria unless they have US agreement and unless the US contributes ground troops to the invasion force.

Turkish action so far has been limited to cross-border shelling of Kurdish forces near Azaz and demands the Kurds stay away from Azaz, which is near the Turkish border and which the Turks say they want to make part of a buffer zone.

Even these moves have been too much for some of Turkey’s NATO allies, provoking criticism by some NATO states of Turkey for its shelling of the Kurds, though claims the UN Security Council has passed a Resolution condemning Turkey’s actions are untrue.

Interestingly the Western powers seem reluctant to endorse Turkey’s claims the Kurds of Iraq and Syria – as opposed to the Kurds of Turkey – were behind Wednesday’s terrorist attack on a military convoy in Ankara (see this discussion here), whilst Turkey’s response to the attack was to bomb Kurdish targets in Iraq rather than in Syria.

The situation is still very tense and it is premature to say that the crisis – if one exists – is past.

Whether because of Russian threats to use nuclear weapons or because of calls of restraint from the West and possibly from his own military or for some other reason, the signs for the moment however point to Erdogan backing off.

With every day that passes without a Turkish ground invasion the prospects of it happening grow less. The next few weeks should decide the issue.

Evil and unbridled greed personified. Just see how this evil b.itch is unashamedly overcome with joy as she celebrates the despicable murder of a seating president. Look at her eyes light up, look at the beam across her face - like a kid that has dipped her hand in the cookie jar. She is absolutely elated that Ghadaffi has been dragged through the streets of Sirte and murdered in cold blood.
Lying, conniving, insatiably ambitious and dangerous women like this should be keep far, far away from the corridors of power.

I do not give a hoot about American politicians or their elections or who amongst them emerges as the president of the world's "indispensable and exceptional" nation since they are all basically puppets of the shadow government ruling elite but in this particular case, Clinton has to be stopped.
Sanders seems like a safe bet with his tendency to lean towards an isolationalist stance

Razman Kadyrov's alliance with Putin and Chechnya's allegiance to Russia in the bigger scope of things is an invaluable asset.

Appleyard, cyprus000, zoharariel, scully95, fineguy11

Russia’s secret weapon: undercover Chechens inside Daesh guide AeroSpace Forces strikes (MUST SEE!)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtFc175UT4E

I make it a duty to read comments from readers on western news media.

Oh boy, are they losing the information war to an awoken citizenry! I can tell you that!

[size=18pt]Week Eighteen of the Russian Intervention in Syria: a dramatic escalation appears imminent[/size]


February 13, 2016
Unz ReviewThis column was written for the Unz Review.

The situation in Syria has reached a watershed moment and a dramatic escalation of the war appears imminent. Let’s look again at how we reached this point.

During the first phase of the operation, the Syrian armed forces were unable to achieve an immediate strategic success. This is rather unsurprising. It is important to remember here that during the first weeks of the operation the Russian did not provide close air support to the Syrians. Instead, they chose to systematically degrade the entire Daesh (Note: I refer to *all* terrorist in Syria as “Daesh”) infrastructure including command posts, communication nodes, oil dumps, ammo dumps, supply routes, etc. This was important work, but it did not have an immediate impact upon the Syrian military. Then the Russians turned to two important tasks: to push back Daesh in the Latakia province and to hit the illegal oil trade between Daesh and Turkey. The first goal was needed for the protection of the Russian task force and the second one hit the Daesh finances. Then the Russians seriously turned to providing close air support. Not only that, but the Russians got directly involved with the ground operation.

The second phase was introduced gradually, without much fanfare, but it made a big difference on the ground: the Russians and Syrians began to closely work together and they soon honed their collaboration to a quantitatively new level which allowed the Syrian commanders to use Russian firepower with great effectiveness. Furthermore, the Russians began providing modern equipment to the Syrians, including T-90 tanks, modern artillery systems, counter-battery radars, night vision gear, etc. Finally, according to various Russian reports, Russian special operations teams (mostly Chechens) were also engage in key locations, including deep in the rear of Daesh. As a result, the Syrian military for the first time went from achieving tactical successes to operational victories: for the first time the Syrian began to liberate key towns of strategic importance.

Finally, the Russians unleashed a fantastically intense firepower on Daesh along crucial sectors of the front. In northern Homs, the Russians bombed a sector for 36 hours in a row. According to the latest briefing of the Russian Defense Ministry, just between February 4th and February 11th, the Russian aviation group in the Syrian Arab Republic performed 510 combat sorties and engaged 1’888 terrorists targets. That kind of ferocious pounding did produce the expected effect and the Syrian military began slowly moving along the Turkish-Syrian border while, at the same time, threatening the Daesh forces still deployed inside the northern part of Aleppo. In doing so, the Russians and Syrian threatened to cut off the vital resupply route linking Daesh to Turkey. According to Russian sources, Daesh forces were so demoralized that they forced the local people to flee towards the Turkish border and attempted to hide inside this movement of internally displaced civilians.

This strategic Russian and Syrian victory meant that all the nations supporting Daesh, including Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the USA were facing a complete collapse of their efforts to overthrow Assad and to break-up Syria and turn part of it into a “Jihadistan”. The Americans could not admit this, of course, as for the Saudis, their threats to invade Syria were rather laughable. Which left the main role to Erdogan who was more than happy to provide the West with yet another maniacal ally willing to act in a completely irresponsible way just to deny the “other side” anything looking like a victory.

Erdogan seems to be contemplating two options. The first one is a ground operation into Syria aimed at restoring the supply lines of Daesh and at preventing the Syrian military from controlling the border. Here is a good illustration (taken from a SouthFront video) of what this would look like:
[img]http://thesaker.is/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Erdogans-plan.jpg[/img]

Erdogan's planAccording to various reports, Erdogan has 18’000 soldiers supported by aircraft, armor and artillery poised along the border to execute such an invasion.

The second plan is even simpler, at least in theory: to create a no-fly zone over all of Syria. Erdogan personally mentioned this option several times, the latest one on Thursday the 11th.

Needless to say, both plans are absolutely illegal under international law and would constitute an act of aggression, the “supreme international crime” according to the Nuremberg Tribunal, because “it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.” Not that this would deter a megalomaniac like Erdogan.

Erdogan, and his backers in the West, will, of course, claim that a humanitarian disaster, or even a genocide, is taking place in Aleppo, that there is a “responsibility to protect” (R2P) and that no UNSC is needed to take such clearly “humanitarian” action. It would be “Sarajevo v2” or “Kosovo v2” all over again. The western media is now actively busy demonizing Putin, and just recently has offered the following topics to ponder to those poor souls who still listen to it:

Putin ‘probably’ ordered the murder of Litvinenko.
Putin ordered the murder of Litvinenko because Litvinenko was about to reveal that Putin was a pedophile (seriously, I kid you not – check for yourself!).
WWIII could start by Russia invading Latvia.
According to the US Treasury, Putin is a corrupt man.
According to George Soros, Putin wants the “disintegration of the EU” and Russia is a bigger threat than the Jihadis.
Russia is so scary that the Pentagon wants to quadruple the money for the defense of Europe.
The Putin is strengthening ISIS in Syria and causing a wave of refugees.
There is no need to continue the list – you get the idea. It is really Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq, Libya all over again, with the exact same “humanitarian crocodile tears” and the exact same rational for an illegal aggression. And instead of Sarajavo “martyr city besieged by Serbian butchers” we would now have Aleppo “martyr city besieged by Syrian butchers”. I even expect a series of false flags inside Aleppo next “proving” that “the world” “must act” to “prevent a genocide”.

The big difference, of course, is that Yugoslavia, Serbia, Iraq and Libya were all almost defenseless against the AngloZionist Empire. Not so Russia.

In purely military terms, Russia has taken a number of crucial steps: she declared a large scale “verification” of the “combat readiness” of the Southern and Central military districts. In practical terms, this means that all the Russian forces are on high alert, especially the AeroSpace forces, the Airborne Forces, the Military Transportation Aviation forces and, of course, all the Russian forces in Crimea and the Black Sea Fleet. The first practical effect of such “exercises” is not only to make a lot of forces immediately available, but it is also to make them very difficult to track. This not only protects the mobilized forces, but also makes it very hard for the enemy to figure out what exactly they are doing. There are also report that Russian Airborne Warning and Control (AWACS) aircraft – A-50M – are now regularly flying over Syria. In other words, Russia has taken the preparations needed to go to war with Turkey.

Needless to say, the Turks and the Saudis have also announced joint military exercises. They have even announced that Saudi aircraft will conduct airstrikes from the Incirlik air base in support of an invasion of Syria.

At the same time, the Russians have also launched a peace initiative centered around a general ceasefire starting on March 1st or even, according to the latest leaks, on February 15th. The goal is is transparent: to break the Turkish momentum towards an invasion of Syria. It is obvious that Russian diplomats are doing everything they can to avert a war with Turkey.

Here again I have to repeat what I have said already a million times in the past: the small Russian contingent in Syria is in a very precarious position: far away from Russia and very close (45km) to Turkey. Not only that, but the Turks have over 200 combat aircraft ready to attack, whereas the Russians probably has less than 20 SU-30/35/34s in total. Yes, these are very advanced aircraft, of the 4++ generation, and they will be supported by S-400 systems, but the force ratio remains a terrible 1:10.

Russia does, however, have one big advantage over Turkey: Russia has plenty of long-range bombers, armed with gravity bombs and cruise missiles, capable of striking the Turks anywhere, in Syria and in Turkey proper. In fact, Russia even has the capability to strike at Turkish airfields, something which the Turks cannot prevent and something which they cannot retaliate in kind for. The big risk for Russia, at this point, would be that NATO would interpret this as a Russian “aggression” against a member-state, especially if the (in)famous Incirlik air base is hit.

Erdogan also has to consider another real risk: that, while undoubtedly proficient, the Turkish forces might not be a match for the battle-hardened Kurds and Syrians, especially if the latter are supported by Iranian and Hezbollah forces. The Turks have a checkered record against the Kurds whom they typically do overwhelm with firepower and numbers, but whom they never succeeded in neutralizing, subduing or eliminating. Finally, there is the possibility that Russians might have to use their ground forces, especially in the task force in Khmeimim is really threatened.

In this regard, let me immediately say that the projection of, say, an airborne force so far from the Russian border to protect a small contingent like the one in Khmeimim is not something the Airborne Forces are designed for, at least not “by the book”. Still, in theory, if faced with a possible attack on the Russian personnel in Khmeimin, the Russians could decide to land a regimental-size airborne force, around 1’200 men, fully mechanized, with armor and artillery. This force could be supplemented by a Naval Infantry battalion with up to another 600 men. This might not seem like much in comparison to the alleged 18’000 men Erdogan has massed at the border, but keep in mind that only a part of these 18’000 would be available for any ground attack on Khmeimin and that the Russian Airborne forces can turn even a much larger force into hamburger meat (for a look at modern Russian Airborne forces please see here). Frankly, I don’t see the Turks trying to overrun Khmeimin, but any substantial Turkish ground operation will make such a scenario at least possible and Russian commanders will not have the luxury of assuming that Erdogan is sane, not after the shooting down of the SU-24. After that the Russians simply have to assume the worst.

What is clear is that in any war between Russia and Turkey NATO will have to make a key decision: is the alliance prepared to go to war with a nuclear power like Russia to protect a lunatic like Erdogan? It is hard to imagine the US/NATO doing something so crazy but, unfortunately, wars always have the potential to very rapidly get out of control. Modern military theory has developed many excellent models of escalation but, unfortunately, no good model of how de-escalation could happen (at least not that I am aware of). How does one de-escalate without appearing to be surrendering or at least admitting to being the weaker side?

The current situation is full of dangerous and unstable asymmetries: the Russian task force in Syria is small and isolated and it cannot protect Syria from NATO or even from Turkey, but in the case of a full-scale war between Russia and Turkey, Turkey has no chance of winning, none at all. In a conventional war opposing NATO and Russia I personally don’t see either side losing (whatever ‘losing’ and ‘winning’ mean in this context) without engaging nuclear weapons first. This suggests to me that the US cannot allow Erdogan to attack the Russian task force in Syria, not during a ground invasion and, even less so, during an attempt to establish a no-fly zone.

The problem for the USA is that it has no good option to achieve its overriding goal in Syria: to “prevent Russia from winning”. In the delusional minds of the AngloZionist rulers, Russia is just a “regional power” which cannot be allowed to defy the “indispensable nation”. And yet, Russia is doing exactly that both in Syria and in the Ukraine and Obama’s entire Russia policy is in shambles. Can he afford to appear so weak in an election year? Can the US “deep state” let the Empire be humiliated and its weakness exposed?

The latest news strongly suggests to me that the White House has taken the decision to let Turkey and Saudi Arabia invade Syria. Turkish officials are openly saying that an invasion is imminent and that the goal of such an invasion would be to reverse the Syrian army gains along the boder and near Aleppo. The latest reports are also suggesting that the Turks have begun shelling Aleppo. None of that could be happening without the full support of CENTCOM and the White House.

The Empire has apparently concluded that Daesh is not strong enough to overthrow Assad, at least not when the Russian AeroSpace forces are supporting him, so it will now unleash the Turks and the Saudis in the hope of changing the outcome of this war or, if that is not possible, to carve up Syria into ‘zones of responsibility” – all under the pretext of fighting Daesh, of course.

The Russian task force in Syria is about to be very seriously challenged and I don’t see how it could deal with this new threat by itself. I very much hope that I am wrong here, but I have do admit that a *real* Russian intervention in Syria might happen after all, with MiG-31s and all. In fact, in the next few days, we are probably going to witness a dramatic escalation of the conflict in Syria.

Now Erdogan's Turkey is now shelling Syrian Syriam Arm positions. A reckless and dangerous man this Erdogan is.

Missy89:


Yeah right. "Legitimate reasons" Are you the judge and jury of what is legitimate or not?

Russia unilaterally banned the sales of the s300 to Iran. Their decision not the west. They lifted the ban they placed on themselves to sell Iran the missiles. The US complain was the timing ( during a nuclear negotiation) which might strengthen Iran's hand. Is that not a legitimate complain? since Russia imposed sanctions on Iran too (Resolution 1696 ,1747,1737 etc) and she is not trying to be a team player for obvious reasons.

Eastern Europe's ABM shield deployment was premature in the early 2000s. But inevitable if Russia keeps selling Iran advance missiles. You cant eat your cake and have it.

1. Yes o- LEGITIMATE reasons: protection of a country's sovereignty from violations and attack.

2. Russia banned the sales a defensive missile system NOT an offensive one and did so cos it would have been in violation of UN restrictions. Now that they have been lifted, the deal is back on board. Duh!

3. Again, Iran has neither the means or death wish to launch a mindless attack on Europe. Cui Bono? Everyone knows that the real reason the Bush administration abandoned the START treaty was to install these shields as NATO crept closer to Russia was in order to contain Russia, affirm US first strike ability and severely degrade Russia's ability to launch a counter strike. In case you didn't know, US military doctrine at about that time was we-written to that of a first strike. Some neocons really do believe a nuclear war is winnable.

Missy89, why has the US been installing ABM shields in Eastern Europe since 2004? Why has the US abandoned the START treaty? Why is the US accusing Iran of possessing technology to senselessly attack Europe with ballistic missiles when we all know that as revealed in the case of North Korea, that this technology is hard to master? Missy89, please I won't engage in a debate with you like you like to do with Appleyard and with Shymmex before him. Your fondness of distracting a thread is well known and I do not have time for it.

Missy89:


The same way China and Russia reacts when american weapons and MDS are being sold or located in Vietnam and Poland respectively

But you are indeed mixing up the context in which this reaction(s) is being used.

The deployment of Russian ADS in this case is purely for legitimate reasons e.g. deploying S-400s in Syria in the wake of the aggressive downing of a Russian aircraft & the blatant violation of Syrian airspace by Turkey before that; the planned deployment of S-300s in Iran in the face of increasing threats by Saudi Arabia and Israel, etc.

However in the case of Uncle Sam, what is the rationale behind deploying ABM shields in Eastern Europe in the absence of any threat but rather the non existent (Iran lacks the technological know-how, reason or will to attack Europe) threat from Iran that has been used as an excuse since 2004 to deploy these shields?

Henry240:


Speedy recovery to the Major General. Atleast they take their jobs seriously to faint on the job, unlike the fvctard Generals we have in Africa, especially Nigeria who are much more pre-occupied with siphoning defence contracts.

Unfortunately true. Africans fvcking ourselves up since like forever!