₦airaland Forum

Logicboy03: okay

So you think atheists are going that far for a laugh? Even at financial cost? Cost of time?

Logicboy03: Your argument doesnt follow.

I am not talking about faith. From a scientific point of view, there is no consciousness without the brain.....it is more likely that oner goes into an eternal sleep when dead

Perhaps, if you believe that all man is a being guided only by the bio-chemical processes of the brain and doesn't possess a soul. The soul will return to the creator who gave it.

Logicboy03: Would have taken you seriously if you were an atheist yourself....

It's simply a theory. I'll have to ask an atheist why they would attend church and give offerings and sing songs.

Logicboy03: Eternal sleep? A neutrall option? The most realistic option?

You suggest a third option? You stated earlier that there was no third option in matters of faith. You said that agnostics were atheists. So it is the same. It is either one comes to accept Jesus as savior or one does not.

Logicboy03: Eternal sleep? A neutrall option? The most realistic option?

You suggest a third option? You stated earlier that there was no third option in matters of faith. You said that agnostics were atheists. So it is the same. It is either one accepts Jesus as savior or one does not.

Logicboy03: At best, the atheist church is a parody religion.

I disagree. I would argue that there is a deeply entrenched yearning to have a religious experience but without God. It's almost like they want to feel bold because they are rebelling against God, but they want the reassurance to affirm their action.

The whole thing is really interesting.

macof: God has no say in human lives, it's our conscience that guides us, Ur supposed God's definition is still man's definition

All have sinned? No I don't agree

Some people don't go against their conscience or the laws of the society they live in

So good is determined by what I think or what society thinks? Is that what you're arguing? Then was Nazi germany good?

Logicboy03: Then what was the point of the good samaritan? The good samaritan goes to hell because he had works but not faith? Christianity is a joke

If a person doesn't believe in God, then they probably don't believe in heaven right? If they rejected God in this life, why would they want to live with him in heaven?

plaetton: Since human definition of good might be incorrect, why dont we go to the animal kingdom and borrow?
And also, why dont you submit yourself to Boko haram's definition of justice, since , as humans, we cannot , at this stage of our intellectual development, agree as to what constitutes good and what does not.

Good can depend on culture can it not? But I do believe most everyone will agree that was bill gates and his wife are doing is good. But what about his sins? Unless you would like to argue that bill gates is perfect. Since no one is perfect they cannot dwell with God. All must go through Jesus for by his stripes, we are healed.

plaetton: [/b]

The bolded are real questions you should be asking yourself, not me.
Is it for those of you who believe and rest your worldview on the myths of stone-age cavemen, to stop and think.

God is missing in real life because god lives in your head, the Temporal Lobe region of your brain to be exact.
That is where he was created and that is his permanent abode.

God takes the shape of the brain that creates it.
That is why god is here and there, and all over the place.
That is why god is invisible to some, while he walks with others, talks to some , while he send preachers and prophets to to others.

But one consistent character of God is that he is always absent to prevent or save people, even his ardent believers, from natural disasters and calamities.

I see you couldn't point to where I argued for an indifferent God. Neither could you defend your point that because people use God fraudulently, we must rid ourselves of God.

You can allege all day long that God doesn't save but just because you haven't experienced something doesn't make it untrue.

Again your position is informed by your belief in the finality of death. If one believes, as I do, that death is only the beginning, then one, is heartbroken by the tragedy in the Philippines, but one also knows that because so many of them believed in Jesus, they have passed on to eternal life.

Now, lets say I don't believe in God and believe in the naturalistic process that created everything including myself, then you still cannot blame me for my belief in a higher power. After all, I'm simply operating within the parameters of that process. Clearly, it was important for the natural process to create man with a sense of a higher being. It is interesting that in every society that has existed, there has always been a sense of something greater than ourselves.

macof: Think

Do u really believe that a man who does good all his life would die and go to hell(not dat it exist) because he wasn't a Christian?

Do u really believe a man like osama who killed, bombed and trained terrorist would go to heaven because he was a Christian for the last 3secs of his life

That's the beauty of grace.

macof: Think

Do u really believe that a man who does good all his life would die and go to hell(not dat it exist) because he wasn't a Christian?

Do u really believe a man like osama who killed, bombed and trained terrorist would go to heaven because he was a Christian for the last 3secs of his life

The real question is: who's definition are we using in defining good? God or man's. In God's definition, no one is good for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

macof: Think

Do u really believe that a man who does good all his life would die and go to hell(not dat it exist) because he wasn't a Christian?

Do u really believe a man like osama who killed, bombed and trained terrorist would go to heaven because he was a Christian for the last 3secs of his life

Yes. If he was sincerely repentant, Osama himself would be saved.

plaetton: Silly silly silly.

The entire body of the christian faith rest upon the notion that god is the puppet master of the universe whose infinite love for humanity bestows blessings, protects , strengthens and rewards those with steadfast faith.

In Nigeria, America and most Thirdworld nations , the entire pentecostal movement is built upon, rests upon, and is propagated upon the grand expectations that God bestows worldly blessings, worldly strength and protection from all evils affliction and catastrophies.
If you doubt that, just simply ask any Nigerian Pentecostal christian.

Also,in case you have not noticed, millions of people the world over are financially exploited daily and great financial empires that include private jest are built purely on the strength of this grand promise of blessings and protection from God, the puppet master of the universe.

What do people pray for, if not for divine protection from all unfoerseen calamities?

So, to turn around now to claim that god is mysteriously indifferent to the calamities that befall humanity, including his faithful, is a glaring contradiction and another sure sign of Cognitive Dissonance.

For, if god is indifferent to human suffering and human insecurity, then why the Fxxx should anyone be encouraged to look up to god and worship him?
If governments and the Red Cross can do a better job of safeguarding citizens, then pls, who needs a god?
What other promise is a Supernatural God capable of fulfilling if he cannot protect and save 10,000 people from Natural dissasters?

Please point to where I indicated that God is indifferent to human suffering. I actually argued the opposite. Did you bother reading the post?

People fleecing others in name of Christ is nothing new. It's been happening since the days of the early church. So is your argument that since people use the word of God fraudulently, then we ought to rid ourselves of it? People use the financial system fraudulently, do we get rid if it then?

Lastly, God indeed does protect, and strengthen, and bless. None of that means that tragedy won't strike. Again, Jesus was on earth healing the sick, feeding people, raising the dead, etc. Did that stop the tower in Siloam from falling and killing people? Or Herod from killing John the Baptist?

Logicboy03: Is this the christian love?

The good samaritan was not a christian
Does Bill Gates sound like a fool to you?

Bill Gates isn't a fool and it is a great thing he and his wife are doing. But, salvation doesn't come by good works. Jesus is the door through which all go to the father.

Logicboy03: An agnostic is an atheist.....we battle with the labels......the African/pagan/spiritualists among us just use atheism to sound cool- they arent atheists since they believe in local gods.

As for the atheist churches- those are not churches....it would be ridiculous to have a muslim or pagan church......these are just atheists that want to meet like minded atheists....calling it a church is just a result of their organistaion being a a country with a christian background

people with like minds meet all the time- chess clubs, AA, etc

I don't buy that. Nothing compels them to use the word church. They do so willingly. People of like minds gather together all the time but they don't call it church.

The reason they purposefully call it a church is because they preach atheistic ideology. They even sing songs too. Why I wonder?

The whole thing is interesting.

Logicboy03: @ bold....atheists dont need a church per se.......atheists have all mantras and ideologies.....you seem to be quite ignorant of atheism...stop thinking of atheism as another religion


As for abortion- it is actually advisable in many occasions. How many pastors or priests will say that?

I know what atheism is: absent theistic belief. That is all it is.

You say atheists don't need a church but that hasn't stopped atheists from creating churches.

Of course atheists have various mantras and ideologies but how many times have agnostics or atheist-spiritualists been ridiculed by atheists for their positions. They do that do get them in line.

Logicboy03: Many atheists here were christians before. Some of us regret the information passed to us from pastors when we were christians. We would have been better off not listening to some of their messages


Pastors are not free to preach just like that to masses of people. Pastors and priests are given certain kinds of respect that comes with responsibility.


So when a pastor preaches about abortion, creationism, religion with government etc and he gives only one side of it as the utmost truth, he is destroying people's minds because of that respect that he as an instrument of God cant be lying on the pulpit. People go to church to listen to the word of God.....


note that the issues that I put up are multifaceted. Pastors and imamas give only one dimension of these issues as "truth". The congregation then are discouraged to see the other side when they already have the divine truth.

This is proven by research- religious people are less likely to know things about other religions. Atheists generally rank higher in religious tests

I do not discount what you have said. There are so many false teachers and false prophets out there deceiving people and even hardening people's hearts when they realize they have been deceived. There are many people teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.

All these things Jesus spoke of. That is why it is crucial to have a relationship with Christ and his word and not look to pastors as the final authority on things. That being said, there are many great pastors that God called to feed his flock, and these pastors are much needed because what we would have is chaos with everyone left to their own imaginations.

The same though is true for atheism. After all that's why atheists hold conferences and even start churches. They need to guide their own flock. It wouldn't do to have atheists with all kinds of mantras and ideologies. The leaders of the atheist movement also bear a certain responsibility and many look to them. If they are wrong, there will be a whole lot of regret.

I don't understand what your third paragraph. Are you saying that pastors should be saying that abortion is ok? Or God didn't create the world?

Tragedy strikes everyone: believer and unbeliever alike. It doesn't mean that there is no God. When tragedy strikes it should remind us that indeed man's days are short and uncertain and we should repent and give our life to Christ.

Jesus touches on this issue:

There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:1-5 NKJV)

Could Jesus not have prevented Pilate from killing his fellow Jews or prevented the tower from falling and killing those people? Of course he could. The primary thing when tragedy like this strikes is to reflect and repent.

The second point is this. We are all alarmed because the large number of people who have perished but the question is an individual one. Perhaps God did prevent the typhoon, then another people would ask, what about the 1000 people here? or the 300 there? Or what about my mum who died of cancer? Or why was I molested as a child? Why was I born in the squalor of Africa? Again the real question is an individual one that everyone deals with, even believers. John the Baptist himself, when he was thrown in prison by Herod sent his disciples to ask if Jesus was truly the messiah though he himself had heralded him as such.

Tragedies like this really disturb people who do not believe in God and for whom death is final. For the believer, death is death. Whether by storms, by bullet, by disease, by whatever. One day we will all die. But those who die in Christ, pass from death to eternal life.

But for God to show that he is not divorced from the problem of evil, pain, and suffering, he became flesh and he endured all kinds of pain and torment, and people said just what some on this forum are saying, "why could he not save himself?" But had he saved himself, how could we know that he really understands us? Instead, he endured suffering and he too died a violent death.

But death could not hold him. He conquered death and made it of no consequence. And so it is for all those who believe in him: death has no power, it is only the beginning.

Having a pastor doesn't prevent you from learning about other perspectives. That's the individual's responsibility not the pastor's. if a pastor sincerely believes in the truth of scripture, why would the pastor then want to advance other ideologies.

LogicBoy's statement is applicable to atheists as well. Many atheists simply regurgitate the quotes of Dawkins, Hawkings, Krauss, and the rest of the world's leading atheists.

We are all influenced by someone. I therefore say that Atheists are not good for you.

FOLYKAZE: Do you know this mean?



You looking for more people to pull down your drowning lane. Lol.

When I said I have a refute cache. I mean I save everything people use which I think could be of benefit when arguing. This particular thing you pointing out is from Teekay Akin who head 'Free African Project Fb group'. Just like logicboy argument on God foolishness in psalm 14:1, I have it in my cache and since I participated in the discussion and asked for the permission, I am free to draw it from my cache.

I dont know your site but thanks for showing it. I am getting more info from it..... And maybe you need to look up for what cache mean.

You're too much man. I'm certain that anyone following this knows that you plagiarized. Cache or no cache, you should cite your sources.

In any case, we've strayed from the original point of this thread. The reason not to embrace African spirituality is that Jesus has come. Before then, it was fine to engage in African spirituality, but now the one true God has been revealed. You yourselves liken the Yoruba pantheon of gods to that of other traditions but just as it was in those other traditions and in the Yoruba tradition, when people heard the gospel they embraced it because it was truth.

FOLYKAZE: I said manipulation, rearrangement and placement. Is that hard to grasp?



whao. Great site. Never know such site exist. Lies from you.

I have my refute cache and written strikes. I do not copied like you.



God of the hills is there on wiki with links. Who are the scholar that stated that El-shaddai mean God almighty?



You answered bro. You left the argument of Jesus dying for world.....you ran toward El-shaddai and evidence were pointed out with it etymology. You said i am correct on kjv counts. So what is your point? 3hit and you still crying.

I haven't forgotten about you FOLYKAZE. So you're contending that you've never visited that site before huh? You are saying you didn't blatantly plagiarize huh?

Here's the post from the site:
• King James in 1610 commanded his men who were translating the bible into English, to insert the name of his good friend, “Shakespear “, into the 46th Psalms as a 46 birthday gift. William Shakespear was 46 years old in 1610 the year that the bible was completed being translated into English. Get an older King James Version of the bible & count 46 words starting with the first word in Psalms 46 you will come to Shake, and if you count 46 words up from the last word{refuge} In Psalms 46 you will get to Spear.{Note: The updated version of the bible have replaced the word “shake” with the word “quake” in an attempt to cover up this forgery.}

Here's your post:

FOLYKAZE:

King James in 1610 commanded his men who were translating the bible into English, to insert the name of his good friend, “Shakespear “, into the 46th Psalms as a 46 birthday gift. William Shakespear was 46 years old in 1610 the year that the bible was completed being translated into English. Get an older King James Version of the bible & count 46 words starting with the first word in Psalms 46 you will come to Shake, and if you count 46 words up from the last word {refuge} In Psalms 46 you will get to Spear. {Note: The updated version of the bible havereplaced the word “shake” with the word “quake” in an attempt to cover up this forgery. This is the same bible some people call holy inspiration.

You stole another's words (including the curly braces) and then lied about it. Then you went on to accuse me of plagiarizing.

That's really low man.

macof: You Christians never read to understand, never in ur Christian life have u understood how to read carefully.

Check the bolded

They only assume Shaddai means Almighty because of KJ's conspiracy and lies. however they realize it's not so but for the respect wiki doesn't just want to drop the bomb, it could affect their service, with all this religious bigots everywhere.

In Hebrew-English dictionary
Shadda means mountain dweller
Shadayim means breasts
Shadad means destroyer
sha means who
Dai means enough
The Jews call El Shaddai the guardian of the doors of Israel- wats at the doors of Israel? Wat guards Israel? Mountains

Where did almighty come from?

So now Wikipedia is in on the conspiracy too? Christians forced them to say that El-Shaddai is conventionally translated as "God Almighty" then at the same time include that Shaddai is was a Canaanite God? I really don't know what to say to that. I'm thinking you just like to argue for the sake of argument.

macof: Puppet, you just here doing supporters club.

Show us How Yahweh is the most high God.
I've shown how he isn't, and I even showed who the real most high God is

Let's try this again:

http://www.el-shaddai.org/whatdoesitmean.asp

"God Almighty" redirects here. For other uses, see God Almighty (disambiguation).
El Shaddai (Hebrew: אל שדי‎, IPA: [el ʃadːaj]) is one of the Judaic names of God, with its etymology coming from the influence of the Ugaritic religion upon modern Judaism. Shaddai was one of the many Gods in Canaanite religion.[b] El Shaddai is conventionally translated as God Almighty. [/b]While the translation of El as "god" in Ugarit/Canaanite language is straightforward, the literal meaning of Shaddai is the subject of debate.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Shaddai

FOLYKAZE: The month is even accurate but different days. But we all know it 1564. The guy dishonesty is alarming.

More weasling. Perhaps you can also show that Psalm 46 was edited in 1610. The KJV translation began in 1604.

Before you accuse others of plagiarism, look to your own acts. You plagiarized on page 6.

For the benefit of followers of this thread, here is the excerpt from the article you tried to pass off as your own. The quote is towards the end.

http://www.informafrica.com/afrikan-consciousness/religious-slavery/christianity-scam-exposed-myths-fairytales-superstitions/

We can't keep going back and forth like this. You have lost your integrity. You tried at all costs to undermine the KJV translation and even the meaning of El-Shaddai. You chose to ignore the fact that the conventional meaning is known by scholars to be "God Almighty." Instead you chose to insist on a weakened theory that its meaning is "god of the hills."

It is clear that you will contort facts, latch on to weak information for support, and putting forth conspiracy theories, just to continue to make it seem like you know what you're talking about.

Please try to explain your blatant plagiarism. I don't see any citations.

FOLYKAZE: I am correct again? Lol correct implies truth. And your flagbearer will call me liar. Chai.

Let take it slow bro.....

There is this thing I come across in the book of revelation which I dont take serious until a friend back it with points. 'saith Amen'. Before I dont take things like that serious because I do think amen mean jesus until my friend informed me it refering to Ramen (egyptian god). That was the first day I heard anything about Ramen but I took a little step ahead to make more findings on his points. Do I know the intention of those translators? Nope but it certain that there are clues on that point.

On this said point. Something suspicious is there. There are many manipulations in kjv which are not in other translations and shows that this fishy thang in psalm 46 could be there manipulation work.

Sounds now like you're bargaining. I didn't clear you from anything. You are still dead wrong in trying to pass off as fact that their was an edit in the 46th Psalm. Then you went on to accuse me of plagiarism when it was you who plagiarized.

I also noticed that you haven't responded to the issue of Shakespeare's precise birthdate or my question about your plagiarism. I suppose I'll have to be honest.

FOLYKAZE: Psalm 46. Pls do the counting here. Abi get your little bro to help if you cant count.

1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake *46 with the swelling thereof. Selah.
4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.
5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
7 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
8 Come, behold the works of theLord, what desolations he hath made in the earth.
9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear *46 in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.
10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
11 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.

http://mobile.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+46&version=KJV


Abeg is 46 and 46 counts not producing shakespear. Pls get yourself into something before barking around.

You are correct that the KJV has 46 from top and bottom. The point is that you cannot present this as evidence of intentional edit since a bunch of other bibles have had either of the words at position 46 from top or bottom?

FOLYKAZE: You said you found this as if you draw it out of your bible. Why didn't you add links?

Foolish of me to think you understood what italicizing text means

FOLYKAZE: your lies is getting boring. William Shakespeare was born on April 23, 1564, in Stratford-on-Avon. http://www.poets.org/poet.php/prmPID/122

Though no birth records exist, church records indicate that a William Shakespeare was baptized at Holy Trinity Church in Stratford-upon-Avon on April 26, 1564. From this, it is believed he was born on or near April 23, 1564, and this is the date scholars acknowledge as William Shakespeare's birthday.

Please pay attention the the italics this time.

http://www.biography.com/people/william-shakespeare-9480323

Would you like me to point out where you plagiarized?

FOLYKAZE: Nativeboy is a dishonest person who looks out for cheap draws. He didn't take his time to do the counting and relate it with my points. He just shoot missing the real target. Even meliyn his puppet who got nothing to offer was praising him without checking out what is what. Those bros missed target.

Kjv placed those words there for a purpose. Why is it that it only appears in kjv well arranged but other translations disorganise it. Why do some translations change the word? The guy went copying trash from another apologetic sites to clean is asz.

Christianity is a religion of lies. See them displaying it.

In fact, before you accuse me of plagiarism, you should have been able to determine the words were not mine. First the paragraph was italicized. Second, the transition from my words to the highlighted text is highly awkward.

Btw, would you like me to point out where YOU plagiarized?

MEILYN: Folykaze, show us proof that shakespear was 46 when the kjv was written. Forget about the counting now..

Good point. No one knows for certain what year Shakespeare was born. It is insinuated from the year of his christening. For FOLYKAZE to try to pass this off as fact, he will have to know for certain the year Shakespeare was born.

FOLYKAZE: The guy wants to inform us shakespear is now ragedspeare. And that my points should appear 46 and 46 counts should not be relevant because the 1count difference. Simple math is missing in me.

Christians lies and deceitful coverup through stealing is really embarrassing. I dont know what to call christian version of taqiyya

Allow me to be as clear as possible. You are stating conspiracy when even it has presented to you that some bibles have either of those words at 46 and the other word within one or two words away. How can you say it was edited when previous bibles already had either of those words at those locations? The only way you could know is if either of those two words were not in close proximity and then in the KJV the words were 46 from the top and bottom.

Just admit that you cannot use this coincidence to undermine the integrity of the translation of the KJV.