₦airaland Forum

simmy:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from nferyn
These are indeed your sentiments.
There are no indications that homosexuality is a learned behaviour and there are several indications that it is caused by a genetical condition. Your sentiment is thus just based on your feelings, not on solid data.
As queen2 already mentioned, the children raised by a homosexual couple are no more or no less likely to become homosexuals than children raised by a heterosexual couple.


On the contrary, I say there are very little indications that homosexuality is caused by a genetical condition(I'm a biochemist). There ARE several indications that homosexuakity is a learned behaviour. MOST forms of sexuality is learned; even heterosexuality

Could you please inform us as to how exactly sexual orientation is learned. In the meantime I wil look up the sources supporting my statement and provide them.

You should check out whether or not your dyslectic. My wife is and being dyslectic has got a serious impact on your spelling abilities.

[quote author=bari_kade link=topic=7611.msg232935#msg232935 date=1141777774]nferyn,

Let's stop this mind game. If the first caller intended to discuss atheism, he should have plainly said so, then we can pick it up from there.[/quote]Ah, now it's a mind game. gbade. x posted
[quote author=gbade. x link=topic=7611.msg232590#msg232590 date=1141754680]yes, and a whole lot of nonsense you can post up from aitheists .[/quote]in reply to a topical post. Who is playing mind games here? If gbade. x calls all of that nonsense, I'd like to know why.

[quote author=gbade. x link=topic=7611.msg232590#msg232590 date=1141754680]yes, and a whole lot of nonsense you can post up from aitheists .[/quote]And would you be so kind to explain why you consider it nonsense?

The specific God of the Abrahamic religions as portrayed in their Holy books has been disproven. God cannot be, at the same time, omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient. This is logically impossible.

donnie:
, as if all you have believed in your life up till now have been proven and tested.

There might be things I would believe in, even if they were not proven yet, but i'm certainly not going to believe in something that is disproven

Islam:
A miracle about mocking God, (i don't know if someone said this before, or that christians believe in it(no offense))

a very long time ago in the time of pharos, the prophet Moses (may gods peace and prayers fall on him) was sent to a pharoh who mocked God and said that he was God, after a number of miracles (the pharoh didnt believe) the Prophet and the Jewish tribe were running away and the pharoh and his soldiers were going after them but the greatest miracle happened , the prophet hit the sea wth his cane and the sea got split for them to pass, but when the pharoh was going after them the sea closed and he drowned,

so praise God

Right, and where is the archaeological evidence of Moses' and the Jewish people's exodus? God must have done quite some cleaning up afterwards, to leave no evidence at all behind of this magnificent feat.

babwilms:
There are no such thing as contradiction in the bible. Holy spirit is needed to read it if u feel their are contradictions

Arent't there? Really?

How does the Holy Spirit explain this:
Matthew 1:16
And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Luke 3:23
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
Maybe Joseph has two fathers?

And what about:
Genesis 7:21-23
And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
Apparently not only Noah and his family survived the flood

Or maybe the Holy Spirit can explain wheter or not God tempts people, as the Bible is not so clear
James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.
Genesis 22:1
God did tempt Abraham.
2 Samuel 24:1
And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go number Israel and Judah.
Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation.

Do you need some more contradictions for the Holy Spirit to explain away?

f0d:
nferyn, dude, you really should watch your tounge, you see people tend to become pissy and start to cry at witty french statements, and I'd have to write on your resume that you're an inseptical neophyte

What exactly is an inseptical neophyte?

You will be able to compile about anything that runs on linux to work on Mac OS X. The real advantage lies in the combo OS-hardware-software, not in one of these separate pieces. With mac OS, your time spent on maintaining your system will decrease considerably, but of course, some people just love playing with their system

It's not because those fetuses look like children (and mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if they were faked: a 10 week old fetus hand doesn't look like that) that they are children. they are neurologically less developed than a chicken, but of course appeals to emotion are always striking a chord.

@ 4get_me
sorry to bother you again, but I still don't understand you when you're saying

I've been taught a lot of things about Christianity that just were not in the Book; but then, critical thought led me to change my prior conceptions - of course, only after I had clear text proof.

Do you mean that a specific interpretaton by Luther constitutes proof of the validity of Christianity?

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]I think you're missing the point. It's a funny thing for anyone to sit back and ask for evidence that God exists. Let's take a simple premise: if God does not exist, why bother fighting the claim that He exists?[/quote]Because false beliefs [b]can [/b]have harmful effects. Once, in many cultures, people believed that human sacrifices were appeasing the Gods. Quite a harmful belief, I would say.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]I don't think anyone who believes in God owes any non-believer an explanation or proof for His existence. Why? The reasons are numerous but I give a few here:[/quote]As long as believers do not do anything to interfere with the free choices of the non-believers, I would agree with you. unfortunately many believers try to impose either impliitely or explicitely their beliefs and morals on others. Although Christian morality is braodly commendable, there are a few aspects of Christian morality that - in my opinion - devalue human dignity.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]1. The claim that "God does not exist" is as strong a claim as "God exists". If one requires proof, the other requires proof as well.[/quote]There are very few athaists that will make that an absolute claim like that, if only because it is impossible to prove a negative, unless one has perfect knowledge.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]If you're asking for an authority outside the Bible that supports the existence of God, you should be willing to provide authority in the same way for His non-existence.[/quote]Why?


[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]You cannot claim that a phenomenon or experience is untrue or illegitimate simply because you have not experienced it for yourself.[/quote]Indeed. If somebody else has independently verifyable evidence of said phenomenon, then there is no need for personal experience, something that is not the case for belief in a supreme being

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]Not only that, but the claim that "God does not exist" supposes the idea that the one who makes the claim has an all-inclusive knowledge beyond our world and experience to state that something does not exist. You must know everything from start to finish in order to be able to categorically state in the entire universe that God does not exist.[/quote]Exactly, that's why your demand for the proof of non-existence can never be met. Once you start to be specific about the properties of that supreme being, you can make claims about the existence of that being based on the verification of those properties or logical induction form those properties. The Judeo-Christian-Muslim God fails that test in all possible ways.
That God is very self-contradictory.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]When people say that God does not exist, the question we ask is: "How do you know that for sure?" Mere conjectures and arguments will prove nothing - you must have a concrete proof in the same manner that you are asking others, in order to show that your claim is true.[/quote]That's why the strawman of atheism, as if it were claiming that no God can possibly exist, is just that, a strawman.
Be very much aware that atheism only implies the lack of god-belief, not the belief in the non-existence of God. That's why you have agnostic atheists, people that do not believe in God, but state that they're not in the possibility to have knowledge of God. I'm one of them.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]2. In the case of providing proof for the existence of God, I've sometimes asked people to be very specific: what kind of 'proof' or 'evidence' are you asking for? If you demand scientific evidence, it just doesn't add up because you cannot subject God to the analysis of a test tube.[/quote]A logical proof on shared premisses would do as well, but even that is not possible.
Why can't you subject God to the scientific method? That's where most of the knowledge that advances our species comes from.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]What I mean is that, science has its limitations and does not provide answers to questions of non-scientific phenomena.[/quote]Obviously not, otherwise it wouldn't be science.
What sources of knowledge do you propose except those coming from logical inference of observed phenomena?


[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]It is as easy to deny the mysterious nature of the supernatural because the physical sciences cannot tell the 'how', 'why' or predict the 'what' of these phenomena.[/quote]I don't understand what you're trying to get at here.


[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]The same could be said with respect to some other type of 'evidence' that you seek, whether Mathematical, physical or philosophical. The one thing that the supernatural deals with is 'faith' - and that does not lose its value simply because you deny that faith is rational or a suitable test for questions of the existence of God.[/quote]If you want to have a meaningful dialogue with people that do not posses that quality, you will need to come with more than faith. After all, in the historical sciences on hardly ever comes to a conclusion based on one line of evidence only.
relying on faith is irrational and not suitable to determine the existence of God, it is the ultimate self-referential system.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]What surprises me is that, the one thing - faith - that is the key to verifying the supernatural is the very one you have failed to employ in this question of the existence of God.[/quote]If you have faith, you believe without evidenc.e You determine beforehand that it is and do not allow questioning of that belief, as questioning would be abandoning faith.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]3. There are many skeptic and atheistic claims that have been made to the effect that God does not exist because the history and prophecies recorded in the Bible are myths. Again, you'll hear many people saying this because the prophecies are not scientifically testable. But wait a minute - how are prophecies 'tested'? Anyone who wants to test a prophecy by any other means than how it should be tested is being intellectually dishonest.[/quote]Exactly, the stories in the Bible are largly mythical and do not stand the test of historical criticism. I don't understand where you're tring to go with your talk about prophecies, can you try to explain?

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]A prophecy in the ordinary sense is something stated that will prove its authenticity when it is fulfilled. You could as well state that tomorrow you'll have lunch - and then tomorrow your lunch is not missed. Is that prophecy? No. Why? Everyone can say anything at that level and see it 'come to pass.' But that is not the same as Biblical prophecies. If you study the Old Testament like Psa.22:18 and Isaiah 53, and compare them with Matt.27:35 for their fulfillment, you get an idea of what prophecy is like. So many Biblical prophecies could be delineated, but the basic question an honest skeptic should ask here is: Are the histories and claims recorded in the Bible true or false? Lazy arm-chair refutations will not help the skeptic - you will need to go out to the very land and spots to verify if Biblical histories are true or false.[/quote]Most of the stories are false or greatly exaggerated. As to the fulfilment of prophecies within the Bible canon, have you ever heard of the Jewish practice of midrash? (see http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/midrash.htm) This alone would indicate that even those few fulfilled prophecies do not prove anything at all.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]I could go on and list dozens more of why the atheistic claim of the non-existence of God needs verifiable proof from atheists themselves in just the same way that they ask the believer to provide.[/quote]Atheist do not make positive claims, theists do. It's up to the theists to show that their claims are based on something.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]If it's true that God does not exist, the least you can do is stop worrying over Him; afterall, there's no need to be alarmed over something or someone whose non-existence poses no harm to you personally.[/quote]False beliefs can have dangerous consequences.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]But if you must go on fighting a claim you cannot sustain, perhaps it is not the believer that is afraid - but you, because you fear that your own convictions will one day be proven colossally wrong in the presence of God Himself.[/quote]You assume too much. Pascal's wager is there only for the believers. A careful extension of Pascal's wager makes belief in God an unreasonable position.

[quote author=4get_me link=topic=4284.msg221048#msg221048 date=1140972940]You don't have to live in that fear or perturbation. God's love is real - and you can know this for yourself only by faith in Jesus Christ.

Many blessings,
4gt_m. [/quote]Again the closed circle faith-belief-God-existence

Allright, what you're telling me is that you have [b]no [/b]positive evidence for creationism or a scientific theory of creationism.

TayoD
Can you bring a positive case for creationism, you know, with evidence from several lines of inquiry coming up to a hypothesis or even a theory of creationism.

I then can't really escape the conclusion that your question was rhetorical and that you're not interested in an answer. Am I right?

Hi Lioness,

I know you're not addressing me, but have a look at this: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-6208.0.html
If you have any more questions or are not convinced, I'd be more than happy to answer

oluyoko:
now you are just taking the mick. watch out. you might just get a reward for the things you say.

watch your words. that is all i am saying.

By whom?

oluyoko:
He is the all powerful God, but we also need to realize that He is also a jealous God. if you had a child, and all the child did was ask you for things and always blamed you when bad things happened, and the child never thanked you for what you had done for him or her,how would you feel about that child? i know how i would feel.

If he is jealous, that meens that he has unfulfilled needs, which contradicts him being perfect.

<sarcasm type="bitter">
nightrider,
I must confess, you see through me like through glass. I truly hate God, I am following the dark lord and have the number 666 tatoed on my body. Not once, not twice, but 666 times. Oh, and I eat Christian babies for breakfast, but they keep sticking between your teeth. Should I try Muslim or Jewish babies, perhaps?
</sarcasm>

And the fact that you cannot understand how the universe came into being, does not impose the need for a creator. Who created that creator? Or are you going to explain that problem away by definition?

oluyoko:
Why is God always to blame when things go wrong?!

Because He's supposed to be all powerful, isn't He?