₦airaland Forum

[quote author=4-1-94ever link=topic=6207.msg212924#msg212924 date=1140205181]@ nferyn, oh yeah, maybe if u was aborted yourself u wont be up here talking all that crap, don't let the Aborted Babies Council over the other side hear u oh?[/quote]Of course I wouldn't be talking like that. I would never have existed.

Before 23 weeks a fetus doesn't even have the neural capacity to carry stimuli within the body. What separates us humans from the other animals is our big and powerful brain. If you take neural develoment as a criterium, a lizzard is much closer to a human than a 23 week old fetus. The fetus has the potential to become human, but it is not human yet. All the sperm that men carry in their body also has the potential to become human. Do you cry wolf every time your semen does not fertilise your wife or girlfriend? And what about those thousands of sperm cells that don't fertilise an egg?

Use your rational thought instead of making these misplaced emotional appeals. Or why don't you go to the other abortion thread (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-2149.0.html). Everything has already been said there.

chrisd:
Perhaps, but how about the torturing of Iraqis by American troops. That is also bad right.

Of course that's bad, have I eve claimed otherwise? How come you compare the publishing of cartoons to the torture of human beings?

@ 4get_me
Those people in business that caused all that havoc were not good. They were operating under an amoral system and exploted it for personal gain. Nothing in their behaviour could be described as good. They are morally reprehensible. People that are following one of the 3 great monotheistic religions are absolutely convinced about the eternal truth of their position. There is no place to question the fundaments of their religion. Now, within that context of absolute moral values that cannot be questioned people that are generally good, like a lot of these terrorists, that are loving and caring members of their society, do things that, if not for their religious justification, they would never do. That's what is mean by that statement.
I am never going to claim that the vast majority of religious people would ever do such a thing, certainly not. The religious claims to absolute truth though are conductive for such reprehensible behaviour.

Do you honestly believe that the perpetrators of 9-11 would ever have commited their monstrous barbarities if it weren't for their religious conviction that they were doing God's work? I don't think so.
It takes religion or another closed belief system (such as orthodox marxism) to make generally good people do evil things. In an open, civil and egalitarian society, such things do not happen.

chrisd:
Muslims seem to be the only ones who really take those cartoons seriously, though. Very rude, inappropriate, disrespectful and insulting!

All of this is true. But those cartoons, even if they're rude, inappropriate, disrespectful and insulting, are still protected by the freedom of speech. And nothing justifies the kind of reaction we've observed.

donnie:
All those bogus words will not cover up the fact that you are blind to truth, reality, which is beyond the senses, from which all else that is seen derive their existence.

Is that all you can offer, donnie? You are just making a claim that cannot be investigated. I would rather say it's the little purple monsters inhabiting the moon that cause all this. They are there, they are just so clever that they hide every time we try to observe them. Prove me wrong. My claim to truth is just as valid as yours. The only difference is that your claim is supported by tradition.

@ donnie

And what kind of epistemiological foundations does your version of the truth have? It's only self-referential I suspect and because of that a closed system that does not allow external questioning. Of course, then you need to look into the merits of said system at predicting the workings of the natural world. It seems that your system is a little bit off the mark in that regard.

The biggest difference is that you don't need that much support for macs. The total cost of ownership of a mac is lower that that of a windows PC.

[quote author=choice.A link=topic=5157.msg212048#msg212048 date=1140163354]nferyn, you often want to push the idea that this or that religion is bad because of the atrocities of the past.[/quote]Not really, I only want to point out to those Christians that are very quick to criticise Muslims for the behaviour of a minority, tend to forget the past and current atrocities that are committed by Christians. It's either because of hypocrisy or out of ignorance.

[quote author=choice.A link=topic=5157.msg212048#msg212048 date=1140163354]I don't know if anyone agrees (and I care less if they don't) that in our day people are more enlightened and want to know what a particular faith entails by looking at their doctrines or tenets.[/quote]Viewed in that light, Islam is probably more enlightened, unless you want to dicrard the old testament completely.

[quote author=choice.A link=topic=5157.msg212048#msg212048 date=1140163354]Christianity is based on the teachings of Christ in the New Testament, not on what some people do in the name of Christianity.[/quote]Why then is the old testament still part of the Bible?


[quote author=choice.A link=topic=5157.msg212048#msg212048 date=1140163354]The fact that people would misrepresent God and attempt to drag the name of Jesus Christ in the mud does not take God by surprise: the Bible said many would kill and think they are doing God a service (John 16:2). We've heard all the bad news; what's the goodnews? It is striking that those who complain against Christianity have not been able to quote a reference in Jesus' teachings that He orders murders or other crimes.[/quote]There are instances in the Bible where Jesus just does that:
Mark 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
That's exactly the problem. The Bible is so full of contradictions that you can easily find a quote that justifies evil behaviour.

[quote author=choice.A link=topic=5157.msg212048#msg212048 date=1140163354]It is just as easy to say that all Belgians are evil simply because someone in Belgium did something evil to me. Does that mean that the Beligian President is to be blamed for all the evils committed by the Belgians I have encountered? But you would immediately see the crass notion in that statement.[/quote]We actulally don't have a president, but a constitutional Monarch You are indeed right in the sense that you cannot blame a group for the behaviour of the individual. If however some people are acting evil in the name of that group, then the group is responsible for either dissociating themselves from those individuals or for stopping these individuals. The group still bears some responsibility, not as individuals, but as group. During the colonisation of Congo, Belgians have commited attrocities in the name of Belgium. Even if I, as an individual, am not responsible for these crimes, Belgian society is and should repay the debt, even if this would mean a hike in taxes (I don't see that happen though )

[quote author=choice.A link=topic=5157.msg212048#msg212048 date=1140163354]In the same way, is it not about time to define any faith in their proper context by looking more closely at what their founders say and teach, than by sticking to some gory detail of what people did in the past in the name of this or that religion?[/quote]It is not only in the past, it continues in the present and religous though, by it's very uncritical nature, is perpetuating this.

oasis:
@nferyn

That is exactly what I've been trying to point out.

Most proponents of daily bath are black. These people have no idea what effect such action has on the white skin, yet they're vocal about criticising whites for not doing what blacks do daily.

I also depends on the climate you live in. If I were living in Africa, I would probably bathe 3 or 4 times a day because of sweating. I just hate the rancid smell of dried up sweat.

It all depends on your skin type and the condition of your skin. I'm white, my wife's black and consequently, our childen are mixed.

I shower every morning and wash my hair three times per week. I don't need to use any moisteriser because my skin doesn't need it. My wife bathes twice per day and the children once like me. My wife uses body milk every times she bathes because if she wouldn't her skin would dry out quickly. I never need to do that. My children only need to use body milk 2 or 3 times per week. Their skin would be too greasy if they would do it more.

Skin treatment really depends on your skin type, but bathing once per week, gross

PS: There's no problem in taking a bath only once a week, but only if you wash yourself thoroughly every day.

Most religions are religions of peace. It's only that a substantial number of religious people, when confronted with dissenting opinions, feel justified in putting down that dissent, as they feel their God is behind them. The suspension of critical thought that accompanies religion is a dangerous thing that can incite religious people to do immoral things.

I think Stephen Weinberg summarised it perfectly:
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

Softee, If you think Christians are free of this kind of monstrous barbarities, you should really look into the behaviour of the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/lra.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

If one rightly makes the claim that these are not real Christians, then one should also be honest enough to say that those suicide bombers are not real Muslims.

Some people here seem to be all convinced that abortion is killing no matter what the stage the pregnancy is in. What are your grounds for making such statements? A fertislised egg is not a person.

goodguy:
Without GOD, there is no Nigeria.

Without Nigeria, there is not God
Anyway, this is just a jab, don't take it seriously

alheri:
seun that was a very lame comment. What do you mean christians authorised their president to bombs arabs? Sometimes you sound so silly I really wander about you.In what way do you mean? Personally, I don't consider abortion murder and all that , I beleive its the woman's business and she should deal with the consequences but how can you compare an unborn innocent child to someone on deathrow and then bring christianity in it? Youre really something else, you feel you can go all over the forum making snid remarks cause its your forum, well you definately reap what you sow.

Sorry for making that last comment, alheri , I just couldn't help myself
The question is whether or not a fetus can be called and unborn innocent child. This is using emotional language where it's not entirely appropriate. Before the fetus acquires sentience, it is a lump of cells and not really a person yet.
It's indeed inappropriate to lump all Christians together on this one. The real problem lies where a considerable part of the Christians constituency in the US (mainly, but also in other countries) want to force their morality on others that may not share it. After all, nobody is forcing anyone to undergo an abortion.

Eddy Tells:
Its completely useless arguing with this antichrist.

I do wear the mark of the beast. I have 666 on all of my clothes. And I also drink virgin blood on the altar. I only wonder why the Lord of Darkness instructs us to drink virgin blood, it's tasteless.

Seun:
Mozilla Firefox is gaining ground today where the old Mozilla based on the netscape browser did not, which shows that the Netscape browser's demise was not due to Microsoft's actions alone. I read that what happened is that IE4 was better than Netscape 4 and was released earlier. If Netscape 4 had been better, it would have taken much longer for Microsoft to win the browser wars.

Whether or not Netscape 4 or IE 4 is better is debatable. I would give IE a small advantage. Functionality wise, they were about equal, but on Windows machines IE swas shining because of the tight integration in the OS. An IE process was loaded at startup (which is no longer the case, I think). Of course this made it look like Netscape was really slow - and of course you had to install it afterwards, and why would you do that if you already had a browsers that was as good as Netscape. It was only the old-timers like me that cared about Netscape. Most corporate customers didn't care about Netscape.
Both browsers sucked to at adhering to standards, it was quite a challenge to write html-code that properly displayed in both browsers. It seems those times have passed

nightrider:
There's a very interesting quote in the bible
It says" only a fool says there is no God"
Its in the bible and i totally agree with it because its the utmost form of denial to see how everything was created to work in perfect order and say it's accidental.

If you think the natural world is in perfect order, you haven't given it much thought

nightrider:
Even charles darwin the father of the evolution at the end of his life had to agree that someone had to have carefully planned out this universe.

This is a lie that is stil perpetuated today, even though it's been proved to be false almost the moment it was uttered. The Lady Hope story was a fabrication.

nightrider:
Its amazing that somene can look at the world and think a big bang or some form of chemical reaction created it, that is the dumbest thing science has ever come up with.

And the smart thing is Poof Goddidit? How then do you explain God?

nightrider:
Argument can't solve this, its by revelation that you'd come to know the Power in the name of Christ, not by your five senses because you will never walk through this door untilyou believe it exists.

With that I agree, but what do you have to know that revelation isn't false? Not very much, I'm affraid.

I have a personal problem with IE, not because of it's functionality, but because of the conduct of Microsoft during the Browser Wars. Buying the Spyglass code (which was a copy of NCSA Mosaic), quickly adding new incompatible features, bundling it with the OS and making it very difficult to use another browser and basically burrying Netscape under the sheer weight of Windows market share. It was dumping on an unprecedented scale and they got away with it.

Might makes right

funty:
i have never committed an abortion and i never will because abortion is murder and whoever does that or advices somone to do it is a murderer

Am I murdering myself if I cut off my toe?

Eddy Tells:
How else can you explan a child delivery from a woman whose womb was "physicall" ruptured and surgically removed 5 years before the delivery

It's entirely irrelevant to the knowledge of the scientific method among medical doctors, but if this happened, I'd be glad to see the evidence.

Eddy Tells:
Nyerfyn

I sent a post. you replied it and called me silly. WHY??
was i stupid for sending that post?? now u want us to stop

I didn't call you [/b]silly. [b]Your argument was silly and it still is.

Eddy Tells:
i said medical doctor not medial doctor - DAFT!!

Impressive. You've found a typo in my post. Should I go and correct it?

Eddy Tells:
You see, this is a free thread, my arguments are not based on impressing you.
Why would i make an argument to impress you. Your acknowledgement of the accurracy of my arguments doesnt matter the least bit to me.

Probably not. Why then are you making attempts to counter my arguments? You don't want to enter into a discussion, you're only interested in apologetics.

Eddy Tells:
You seem to interact alot with christains. is it a come back skill.

There are quite a few of them, yes. It's just inevistable.

Eddy Tells:
Secondly, can you prove that medical doctors don't have a clue to scientific method

That's not what I said. I have said that many seem to be clueless. Could you explain to me how you apply the scientific method in your practice? Or maybe you're doing research?

@ Eddy Tells
Let us both stop with the name calling, it is not very productive and unnecessary. I hope you can bring your arguments for the fact that it would be reasonable to believe in the Christian God.

Eddy Tells:
Well, i'd be more than willing to get you God tripping but as an agnostic atheist do you really want to know about God

Present your arguments. I have not fully excluded the posibility of a God existing. Currently I don't believe in God because I have not seen any convincing evidence for his existence.

Eddy Tells:
Sorry if you feel like that about it. Its just that your story went deep and you said you were a catholic , . . . . maybe not a dedicated one but you definitely had something to do with God right while u were a baby.

I was baptised as a baby to allow my grandfather, who was suffering from terminal cancer, to have an official godson. That's all I have to do with the Catholic Church.

Eddy Tells:
And again, if you say your an agnostic athiest how come on religious/ christian threads, your always making posts to clarify issues on catholic topics and all. And i must say that some of the post u make on those christain thread make sense.
So how come you do that and still claim no knowledge of God

I know of the terrible history of teh Catholic Church, but after Vaticanum 2, they have probably become the most progressive force in Christianity. At least their pastors don't need to leech on their flock to maintain a lavish lifestyle.
I do have a vivid interest in religion as it has been one of the dertmining factors in human history. I have a problem understanding that in this day and age so many people, even intelligent people, still succomb to superstition.

My only knowledge about God is that the monothesitic God, as described in the Torah, Bible and Qu'ran, does not exist. I am making no claims for a generic deity, as God can always retreat to the position of the deistic prime mover, which is a reasonable position.

Eddy Tells:
See why i call you daft! How can you say your an agnostic atheist. How would you claim not toknow anything of God when you served God as a catholic when growing up.

Once again u crack me up

I have made no such claim. My parents were catholic by birth, but they left the church and became atheists before I was born. I have always been an atheist.