₦airaland Forum

@ nicetohave
As you are a medical doctor, do you have faith in the evidence for evolution and where does that place the origin stories from the Bible?

Obviously your knowledge of all things medical far exceeds mine. I was just making an assumption based on incomplete information on my part.. It's quite improbable that a conception would happen under these circumstances.

nicetohave:
You raise plausible arguments...but the bottomline is you want to come to know there is a God in heaven that rules in the affiars of men...you are not far from it...he will stop you short in your track soon enough that you will thank him did.

God exists...you wont find out only when it is too late...that is my prayer for you.

I'm touched by your concern. I'm only affraid that I'm way too rational for this.
I will tell you when I'm stopped short in my tracks though

thx for the info. It sounds awful. Are you a medical doctor?

nicetohave:
tell me all you think you know about genetic drift you are hungry soul seeking the truth and you shall find it...and while we are at it...whenever you discover what the exact mechanism by which the last process took place...post it to me!!!

What would you like to know about genetic drift? I can point you to some very good sources that explain the mechanism (this is a good starter: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/genetic-drift.html)
As if I'm going to find that mechnism. I wish I were that brilliant I'm just a simple IT Project Manager/Project Planner. There are countless scientists working on the question of the origin of life who are far more qualified than I am.

nicetohave:
Hmmm, your atheism deserves some prayerful consideration...even david yoder...a renowned atheist asked for a child for his wife...one who has had hysterectomy and oophorectomy (removal of the breast and both ovaries) shortly after they were married, and he would believe in God...nine months later a woman without a womb or ovaries conceived and bared a child...is that remote enough for you nferyn? but if it isnt yet you will believe in God if its the last thing you do because God knows your state of heart and wants to reach you...and when he does..you wont be able to argue it. do you know Tai Solarin did not die an atheist? and you are not even as convinced there is no God as he once did...i am hopeful for you. God exists...and rules in the affairs of men on earth, one major problem though is that to know him goes beyond seeing him walk through a wall...that sounds like circus...yet he does make provision for those whose initial sense sensitive to him is their 5 mortal senses.

If both ovaries and breasts were removed, then it is still theoretically possible to bare a child if the egg was released just prior to the operation. Now it is just impossible to give birth to a child without a womb. If you could provide me of evidence of the fact that she bared a child without womb (not just an assertion), then I would definitely conclude that there is positive evidence that there may be a God at work

To come back to your point of a former atheist becoming a theist. I have not known one person who was atheist before that started believing in a theistic God. Some became agnostics and some pantheistic (I'm even close to that position), but nothing more than that. There are countless examples of theists that became atheists though. When you honestly take all the available evidence in consideration, you cannot but conclude that the God of the Bible does not exist.

VVF?

nicetohave:
In one of your posts nferyn...you wrote this "Well, that's just me Didn't make myself " may i ask who made you? your parents? a game of chance? do you even know?

My parents definitely had something to do with it, they were the willing agents of the process so to speak That and the complex wonders of self organising systems in developmental biology (proximate/immediate cause)

Add to that millions of years of natural selection and genetic drift working on the early life forms. Which were by themselves a result of self organising organic materials that lead to a first replication mechanism (although we still haven't found an exact mechanism by which this last process took place) (ultimate cause)

I still don't understand. I cannot find a way that God could prove himelf except by physically revealing himself, and even then I need to know for sure that I'm not hallucinating. All other events have a distinct possibility of happening without divine intervention, so these are not proof. Only if the chance of something happening is so astronomically small like walking through a wall (theoretically possible), would this be proof. I won't be that picky though, two independent events that have a 1/1000 chance of happening somewhere on this planet will do for me.

Even with 6x more chance of crashing in an airplane in Nigeria, it is still far safer than any other means of transportation, even traveling by car in the safest place on earth (road safety wise). You always have to look at the real odds, not at the incidents that happen.
Thousands die every day on the roads, but very few people die in plane crashes. When a plane crashes though, the consequences are catastrophic, and because of that, they become news worldwide. Don't believe the hype.

nicetohave:
chose the challenge nferyn...and the Lord himself will prove himself to you...not me because he is very willing to touch you now more than ever...i am serious...chose the challenge and let the Lord of lords reveal himself to you...i await a response.

What do you mean?

I will believe in God if you show me some solid evidence of his existence. There is none.
The moment you start describing properties of God, he becomes self contradictory. All what is left in the end if faith in the unknown and unknowable.

nicetohave:
Plenti of oyinbo but well said

Well, that's just me Didn't make myself

Men and women have different evolutionary strategies to propagate their genes.
the investment a man has to make to have babies is quite minimal: some semen and a little bit of hit time. Quite naturally a coonsiderable amount of his attempts is going to bring a healthy baby and possibly a reproductive adult.
In short, the more partners the man can get away with, the better. But to ensure that his offspring survives (as human infants are very fragile compared to other mammals), he will have to invest effort to care for and protect his mate and children. he will only be (reasonably) certain of his fatherhood in case of his steady partner, so that's where his effort will go (even though it is still far less than for the female).
The woman will have a different reproductive strategy: she wants the best possible steady partner that she can get to take care of her children and herself. She will even choose a genetically inferior mate as long as she is guaranteed of his investment. When a woman is unfaithfull, she is much more picky: she wants a temporary partner with superior genetical qualities and will choose a younger, healthier and/or better looking specimen than her steady partner, to ensure the quality of her offspring.

Of course all of this is only relevant at the analytical level of populations and does not imply anything for individuals (which can have very different choices), but evened out on the level of the population, this is exactly what you'll get.

Summarizing:
* men are slightly (but only slightly) more unfaithful
* men are not picky at all when it comes to choosing a temporary sex partner
* women are very picky when it comes to choosing a temporary sex partner and choose someone healthier, younger, better looking and overall genetically superior to her steady mate

Vongauche:
read with an open mind and with patience and stop jumping the gun. in my very first post on this, I said it has not been proven that the act decreases the female libido. therefore, one can assume (at least I assume) that it has not effect if and when done while the girl is a baby. Being performed by a medical practitioner should dispel any doubts about infection.

Libido is one thing, the sensation you have when having sex is quite another. The fact that the clitoris contains millions of nerve endings and is present only for the pleasure of the woman and has no other function should prove something.
Concerning libido: are there any controlled tests performed to give evidence to the statement that female genital mutilation does not decrease libido? There are none that I'm aware of.

Vongauche:
and your analogy still does not stick. so u agree that body parts are unique in their own right? Good! that means there is no basis for perfect comparison as each part must be looked at on its own. finis!

That's an easy cop out. No analogy gives a basis for perfect comparison, that's why it's analogous, not identical.
The comparison I made is just there to indicate that there are no good reasons whatsoever to engage in the practice of female genital mutilation (I explicitly use the term genital mutilation to set it apart from male circumcision)

Vongauche:
lastly, as a corollary of there being 'no effect' as I earlier assumed (which is also what IAH agreed with if only for the sake of argument), it implies that "when removed, that ability is NOT impaired."

QED

Not. The only thing that would demonstrate your point is evidence to the fact that libido is not affected by this practice. You have not brought any evidence. Moreover, affection of libido is not the only factor under consideration (if it were, this would be an extremely male approach to the question). The pleasure the woman feels when having sex is just as much, if not more important than libido.

Vongauche:
PS
what u have to prove to me is that my assumption is wrong.

I do not need to disprove your assumption. An assertion by you is no evidence.

One more thing, as [i]IAH [/i]and [i]goodguy [/i]have repeatedly asked and you seem to ignore: what purpose is there in the first place to this practice. Harming the integrity of the human body needs strong positive indicators for the good. In the absence of these indicators, inaction is the correct strategy.

Vongauche:
@IAH: I am not a cannibal. There are clearly still people in society(minus the Western world) who believe that it should be done. But there are increasingly also a number of people in such societies who feel it should be stopped as it does not reduce female libido. What I suggested was the best attempt at a Pareto optimum i.e. making someone better-off without making another worse off. Shikena!

So you think that reducing the female libido is a valid reason for this practice?

Vongauche:
nferyn, your analogy doesn't quite stick here. body parts are entirely unique and cannot be compared.

It does stick. Both bodyparts increase an ability. When removed, that ability is impared, but not completely removed. Your statement that they are entirely unique is irrelevant. Everything is unique in it's own right. All my hair follicles are unique as well.

This is very good news. Regardless of all the bad fortune that's befalling on South Africa. It remeains a beacon of hope for an enlightened world.

You will go nowhere. You will just[b] cease to exist[/b]. No fear, no damnation, nothing... Enjoy the time you have here on earth, It's the only one you'll get. You are incredibly lucky that you are alive. Out of the millions of sperms and eggs, faith chose [b]you [/b]to be born. be happy for this great fortune and try to live your life to it's fullest.

Why don't we start cutting off people's ears. They will still be able to hear, even though a little less good. I am yet to see someone with half an ear that doesn't enjoy music, so where's the harm?

Greatpeter:
The reactions of the female in the house should give you some gist about the reason why Govt. owned hospital will never allow you in to labour room.

This is sexist B*llsh*t, pure and simple.

Greatpeter:
Besides, at times it might not be only your wife labouring at that moment.

This could be a valid reason. There are no separate rooms for the women in labour?

Greatpeter:
So will you go there and look at another man's wife naked?
If you were to be, will you agree to that?

As if you'd be interested in other women in labour at that time....

Anyway, just a sidenote. recently, there's been a craze on Belgian TV where the whole process of expecting a child upto labour and birth is shown in full vivid colour on TV. These programmes are immensely popular. I personally think that the birth of your child is something too private for the world to see.

This link should help you on your way. It's a paid subscription, but there's enough info on the free pages to help you on your way. Once you're comfortable enough in French, you may consider to move on to a paid subscription.
The reason I mention Le Monde is because their language is fairly standard, not too much slang, wordplays or very colloquial language.

http://www.lemonde.fr/abojournal/offre_etranger_zoneN3.htm?pays_num=206

[quote author=-Destiny- link=topic=2806.msg127289#msg127289 date=1134340298]Oh refroidir, est la France où vous provenez de ou vous avez appris la langue quelque part Nike ?[/quote]La France, est-elle l'endroit d'où vous provenez où avez-vous appris la langue quelque part d'autre, Nike

(notice: a limited liability is applicable on the quality of my corrections. they are provided free of charge and (as we say in dutch), you shouldn't look a given horse in the mouth)

WesleyanA:
je pense que Nike << learns it >> a l'ecole aussi. Elle habite en Britain.

Elle est en train [i]d'apprendre [/i]le français.

Seun, maybe just move this derail to a new thread

WesleyanA:
i learned about that too. Yves Costeau is in it along with the top literary figures in France.

Yes, but they go too far:

puce, méga-octet, souris, ordinateur, imprimante, courriel (I actually like that one for e-mail), ... while the rest of the world just borrows the english words for computer terms, heck, even the Germans do This makes it quite impossible for me to read computer magazines in French.

Some advice if you really want to improve your French, get yourself a subscription to the daily Le Monde and force yourself to read at least 3 pages from it every day. Once your're comfortable reading Le Monde, move over to Libération, which uses a more literary language. Not only will you improve your French, but their journalism is lightyears ahead of what is considered journalism in the US (sorry for the possible offense)

Actually, my spoken french is considerably better than my written french. French grammar is way too complicated. French is the second language in Belgium and it is spoken by the majority of people in Brussels. As I work in Brussels, I have to adapt to a certain degree.

WesleyanA:
You speak french! cool! i actually want to do the foreign exchange program thing to paris when i get to college. that's how much i love french!

Go for it. Should be fun, but you should expect the Parisians to be a little snobby when it comes to their language. After all, they have the Académie Française guarding the correct evolution of the French language, vigorously protecting it from English influences.

WesleyanA:
i actually understood that!!

Good. Maybe we can try something a little more difficult next time

Dites-moi WesleyanA, ton sig, pourquoi est-il en français? Est-ce que tu as quelquepart des racines françaises?

Greatpeter:
No hospital will allow you in to a labour room with your wife in Nigeria but it is being practiced overseas.
And we have reason for that which I believe is okay.

What is the reason they wouldn't allow you in the labour room?

anton:
What do you expect from an "American"?
I was being facetious. I think everybody would have gotten the point if I put the yucky face *inside* the parenthesis. Still, i don't have a problem being born here. It's tough and many don't make it but it's diffenently a strategic asset that will pay off for me and mine. Still, i look forward to the day i speak Yoruba, Twi, Zulu, and Wolof better than I speak english, japanse, french, and spanish. Still, I doubt very much that my point of view is as "American" as you hope it to be...

I was just teasing. Everyone is, after all, a product of their upbringing and environment. The way you talk about 'Europeans' as in the guy in the appartment next to yours is as 'American' a point of view as you can find them.

allonym:
If the existence of extremist talking heads is the basis for your view of the cultural climate in the united states . . . well, in any case, I disagree with most of what you just posted.

I touched a nerve here, I guess. Sorry for that, I was just trying to be honest in expressing my opinion. The effect of these extremist talking heads on the policy of the nation, both internally and externally, cannot possibly be underestimated. You could read Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent as a more in depth analysis of the media in the US. Think about things such as embedded journalism, un-american behaviour, freedom fries and the overall position of Fox news.

allonym:
I don't see American culture as an immature stepchild, if anything, it serves both as a lesson and a model to the world. despite the existence of people such as coulter and robertson, entities such as the kkk, america is still among the most advanced in terms of its acceptance of other cultures. If anything, it's Europe which is still resistant to diversity - vis a vis France. .

One thing you seem to ignore is that the US is a country based on immigration and has Incorporated immigrants since it's inception. The fact that there are still such huge problems between the different communities is a point that is worth reflecting upon. It makes me think of a voluntary 'seperate but equal' [/i]attitude. If you see the level of integration of the different communities in the UK in less than 50 years (even though they are following the same cummunalistic approach to multiculturalism), then I wonder why the US is barely ahead of the UK in that regard. Another difference I see is that integration is accomplished both on a interpersonal and on a professional level in the UK.
And I wonder how accepting the US actually is of Arab muslim culture. Crusades against terrorism and all incalculated.
France is - as always - [i]un cas apart. They chose for a system of total assimilation and they have accomplished assimilation this for their internal minority cultures. You just had riots, but these were mainly caused because the right wing government chose to reduce their integration efforts for the immigrants, which had to lead to this explosive situation in the short or the long run.
What Europe needs badly is affirmative action in the labour market. This is the only place where the development of the immigrant underclass can be reversed. I have full confidence that on an interpersonal level there won't be any problems
For most other European countries immigration is a very recent phenomenon and it's too early to draw any meaningful conclusions.

allonym:
I can certainly agree that america is a newcomer to the idea of acceptance of cultural diversity, however, america by virtue of how it was founded, economy, gold rushes, etc - has got to be the most diverse country in the world - and I think I can probably show it is the most accepting of diversity.

I certainly agree that is the case for diversity of different communities, but tell me how diverse are the communities internally? Do not forget the historical perspective here. When it comes to immigration, Europe is really the new kid on the block.

allonym:
What many - non americans have expressed as initially disliking about america is what you term american belief in their own uniqueness. Others term it arrogance or hubris. In all honesty, maybe i've been here too long, I don't see it. What I see is pride in the diversity. . . polyglot that makes america what it is . . . americans feel a great sense of accomplishment. . .and one has to admit that they are entitled to it.

What I see is an unwarranted idea that their unique solutions can be applied to other cultural settings (e.g. what I have heard here a few times is whites in the US being referred to as Europeans - this is complete and utter crap as the only Americans that may be considered Europeans culturally is a fringe minority from New York, Seattle or San Fransisco. Canadians are waaay closer to European cultural values than white Americans).
In general the accomplishments of the US post WW2 are these of an imperial juggernaut, very much like Britain before WW2. When you have access to all resources under your control, when you control the largest and most powerful military in the world, when the international institutions are all set up to suit your ambitions (UN security council, IMF, World Bank) , when you hold the reserve currency and have an internal market that is large enough to allow you to dump your produce on the world market (e.g. cultural products) after they are break even in your internal market..... what then can you expect?
I can tell you a few stories about the application of American diversity within Europe, but I'll hold that for later.

allonym:
However, i think the world is moving (or has moved) to a time when the accomplishment counters of the world's nations have to be reset. Now is a time for everyone to reprove themselves (or prove themselves for the first time). I think this is where some of the . . . dislike . . .stems from. While everyone is working hard to "prove" themselves, America is resting on its laurels and saying "nah. . .we've got nothing to prove. . we're already good".

You may also consider that the model of unrestricted capitalism chosen by the US is not exactly the one other nations want to emulate. The one accomplishment that I, as a European, am proud of is the establishment of the welfare state in Western Europe. The ghost of unlimited competition (whipped up by the IMF and World bank cronies) is undermining the very foundation of post WW2 Europe and I do not want to enter in this world of cutthroat competition without regard for anything but profit.
There are nations (China and India to be precise) that have much more stomach for that than the US has. If the US chooses to put ideology before pragmatism, there will be a lot of people that are going to be hurt.

allonym:
This I feel is america's problem. . . and why there is going to be major upsets in the world order in the next 20 or so years. . . IF myself and my fellow students are suddenly all killed by meteor showers. . .

So, WORLD, watch out. . . there is a new generation of americans. . . we're not as bombastic as the previous ones. . . but we will make our presence known

I'm very happy for you. I just hope you'll (plural) travel enough around the world to ensure that you have a broader perspective than your forebears.