₦airaland Forum

goodguy:
Why do we always have old people as presidents in Africa?? This 67 yr old woman doesn't have any strength again. What's she looking for? Me thinks younger people (male or female) should be given the chance and not people who have just few more years to live on earth.
It's a nice start anyway.

Older people have wisdom and perspective, especially if they're still very active and quick witted, which is certainly the case for Ms. Johnson.
This is exactly what Liberia needs after the last decades of insanity.

goodguy:
All u've listed are just natural disasters. We're talking of various man-made mishaps that have befallen men. I'll advice you read the book of revelations. Though so many of these things happened in the past, we are now seeing more of it today. What does that tell us? - The end time is drawing near.

First, please sum up all these man made mishaps?
Second, we will compare them to man made mishaps in the past, normalising for populations size, so that we can look at their relative weight in a historical context
Third, we'll look at whether or not that ratio is increasing today, both in absolute and in relative terms

Then, and only then can you make a valid comparison.

donnie:
If it were just for the written Word, maybe i will not be as sure as i am now. but you see, i have the Spirit of truth whom Jesus promised to come and guide us into all truth, living in me. He confirms the written Word in our hearts.

You ask me to prove that? It is like asking me to prove the exixtence of God. I will not need to because it takes the same Spirit of truth with his convicting power and with the miracles that he does to convict any man of his reality.

Thus closing all discussion, as you have a personal experience that validates your position. It is beyond scrutiny. What about people that have exactly the same kind of experience, only using different sources (such as the gnostic gospel by Thomas)?

Eddy Tells:
My point exactly?

You only hear/read what you want to hear/read.

Let us just formalise this debate so that we can come to a unrefutable conclusion.
First: give a [b]precise [/b]definition of what Born Again [/i]is
Second: examine whether or not the Catholic version of being [i]Born Again is the same as yours. If so, then you can discuss. If not: you're talking about different things and a debate is pointless
Third: If the futility of the debate would be established, this would not mean that either definition is better, only that you're talking about different things.

Well Goodguy,

I would very much like them to try that on me. You need to be perceptive to hypnosis for it to have an effect.

goodguy:
Nferyn, did you know that there are some people in this world who can tie you down and you won't be able to get up? (Believe it or not). Now tell me, what logical explanation do you have for that?

How on earth could I come up with a logical explanation for this:
* I don't know these people or their skills
* what exactly is tieing down?
* what did they use to tie me down?
* what exactly do you mean by getting up?
I may possibly begin to try to come up with a logical explanation once you can answer these questions

Did you read what I wrote? Did you understand what I was trying to say?

layi:
Why must we use logic to explain the supernatural if logic is the exact opposite of the supernatural.

Actually logic is not the opposite of the supernatural. Logic is a system of reasoning you use to reach a conclusion from premisses; It is internally consistent and has nothing to do with the natural or the supernatural.

What is considered supernatural is just these things that do not have a natural explanation (yet). It says absolutely nothing about whether or not they are true.
It is not difficult to apply logic to the supernatural. If it will lead you to a sensible conclusion is another matter entirely.

donnie:
That they did not have access to the bible shouldnt be seen as a recommendation but as a subject of great concern requiring swift response/action.

So you honestly, truly believe that your tradition is more valueable than theirs

Their tradition is probably much closer to the original christian churches than yours as it has not been watered down by countless political interventions.

Maybe you should read a bit about the council of Nicea and the establishment of the Catholic Church as state church in the Roman Empire to understand the roots of the Bible as a book

Ajisafe:
They were killing each other before the eoropeans came.

But, we would have faired better if we had been left alone in our "un-civilized" way of life!

So true, all Christian Churches, both Catholic and Protestant have been an instrument of oppression since the establishment of the church. The use of Christianity in subjugating people was already well perfected before it was used in Africa by the colonials.

Ajisafe:
It is funny when we blame europeans 4 our misfortunes.

Your Christian brother just did by calling them "ungodly."

The initial conditions for Africa's misfortunes have certainly been caused by Europeans. All was justified with the Bible in their hands, e.g. the colonisation of Congo was carried out under 2 pretexts: fighting Arab slave traders (Tipu Tip) and the Christening of Congo.

natasha:
[SNIP]
Please i want real answers and not debunking comments or someone telling me to read some history written in Latin

So you mean you want instant fast food answers to complex questions? I'm affraid that those answers won't be answers at all

obong:
By the way, weah didnt solicit teenageers for his campaign (most can't vote anyway). They supported him because he represents the mases.

My bad, wrong wording.
They rather supported him because he is the former football superstar Georges Weah, then because he represents the masses. Anyway, of these teenagers, very few were LURD, most were former Taylor foot soldiers. I was feeling uneasy when watching a Weah rally on TV. I've got a Liberian Mandingo friend who didn't feel at ease either.

obong:
ms johnson represents the oppressors, and has been aligned with former butchers like doe and taylor. that doesnt mean she wont be a good leader, but let's not distort their stories

Weah didn't have any political past before entering the race, so he indeed didn't align himself with any of the former politicians in Liberia. As for Ms. Johnson, she quickly distanced herself from them when it became clear that they were not going to bring any improvements. All older Liberian politicians are somewhat interconnected, even Taylor was part of a Doe cabinet.

A good thing. She's always been an independent voice in Liberian politics. And contrary to Weah, she did not sollicit the former teenage soldiers to [i]support [/i]her campaign.

Ajisafe:
@ Goodguy, go ahead, bring your biblical quotations. @ Nferyn, you can also bring your own reasons why it is not logical to prove the existence of God. C'mon, bring it on!

I've never said it is not logical to prove the existence of God. I only have not seen anything remotely resembling proof.

Ajisafe:
Maybe the fact that the Yoruba people migrated from the Arabia has something to do with -- I can't say. But that's not the point now.

Is this established history or inference from tradition? Are there secunday sources for this (e.g. DNA analysis)? Could you point me to some sources as I'm really intrested.
Anyway if that migration took place, it would be far earlier than the establishment of Islam.

Ajisafe:
The point is, yes, there's a similarity. Can't you discern? If Yoruba believe that their loved one who has just died and is being buried is probably now in the backyard scavenging in form of an animal/ the Qur'an pointing to the fact that Allah would raise certain people as Reprobates in the Day of Reckoning, I don't think there is any dissimilarity, at all.

There is indeed a weak similarity, but all major religions build on each other anyway. I think I still don't understand your argument

goodguy:
Since someone is quoting the Quran here, why can't we christians too quote the Bible?

I think this quote was relevant, as Ajisafe was pointing at the fact that these verses in the Quran are consistent with established science. It is not sufficient though to logically prove the existence of God

Ajisafe:
A religion that is rooted in the cycles of nature and life (such as many traditional African religions) is much more meaningful than detached stories of all powerful jealous deities that demand utter submission

I guess my argument makes no sense to you, huh?

I really don't know. Are you saying that reincarnation is an Islamic belief or only that there are similarities between Islam and Yoruba beliefs?

Seun:
Maybe I was kidding, or maybe not. But my point is that, to a third party who has not been brought up from birth to be religious, what you believe in will seem just as ridiculous as what I said i believed in."

This is exactly how I feel. None of the monotheistic religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) make any sense to me. I'll use my analogy again: If the only tool you have is a hammer (the Bible, the Quran, the Torah) all problems will look like nails (Christianity, Islam, Judaism)

layi:
Dont be mistaken. We are adults and more rational now than then. Havent u seen muslims becomin christains and vice versa? Its not a question of our parents 'brainwashin' us. We believe it because its believeable. A lot of us have dropped some parental influences and picked up new ones.

Yes, but the differences were not fundamental. Conversions between Christianity and Islam are variations on the same monotheistic theme.

A religion that is rooted in the cycles of nature and life (such as many traditional African religions) is much more meaningful than detached stories of all powerful jealous deities that demand utter submission

ijebuman:
I think he should be sent back to Chad to face 'justice', whatever happens to him there, so be it.

I'm not really on top of Chadian politics. Is there any chance he'd be prosecuted in Chad? If not could another African Country try him? If so, I'm all for it.

In view of the current Belgian genocide law, I do not see how this could ever result in a trial. Only if the perpetrator is living in Belgium or if a Belgian citizen is directly involved in the crime (either as perpetrator or victim) can they invoke the so called genocide law.

It has worked once for the trial of some Rwandan priests and nuns that were perpetrators in the Rwandan genocide. Then it made sense as the perpetrators had Belgian residence permits and Arusha was incapable of handling the case. Such a trial is no longer possible under the current law.

The only exception is when the country in question (Chad) would make a direct request to Belgium to prosecute one of it's citizens (e.g. because their justice system is not capable of handling such a case).
Did Chad make such a request to Belgium?

goodguy:
Why don't u both go to "Names of Movies" thread?

Oh come on.. allow us this little side step ... Seun can always clean it up if he deems it necessary

ijebuman:
Have to concur even though i think Independence day was such a 'cheesy' film

Then you'll certainly like Mars Attacks!

@ ijebuman
I don't think it will end very soon. The human race is very much in it's infancy and our instinctual behaviours, which were usefullwhen we we're hunter-gatherers are turning against us in complex societies like ours.
People should really try to shed their irrational fear for the other/unknown. Only rationality, knowledge and education will help. We all need to come clean with our pasts.

And yes, we are all the same as the genetic variability of the human race is extremely small compared to other mammals. Divisions only serve as tools of oppression. Maybe (and I know this will sound cheeky, but do forgive me ) we need an external alien (something like in the film Independence Day) threat to make us realise that we [b]are [/b]all the same

Think about the all the previous centuries after the death of Christ. They have been saying this over and over again, with as many, if not more circumstantial evidence to prove their point.

And wasn't it prophecised that:
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" Matthew 24:34 (the end times)
"And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." Mark 9:1

It still hasn't happened