₦airaland Forum

donnie & nicetohave,

If there is ample evidence, why don't you present it. All I have seen is backward reasoning from a preimposed conclusion whereby the evidence is chosen to fit the conclusions, while at the same time ignoring contradictory evidence.

Geez:
nferyn, you wrote like a scientist. Can you prove to me the existence or evidence of air? Just as you can not see air, the evidence of air abounds. Same as God. C'mon, lets not be to scientific. Just because these is no solid evidence does not mean that it doesn't exist. Science has not been able to prove that man evolve from organism. If the link and evidence is not presented, then science is based on faith or belief, just as religion is.

Yes, you can prove the existence of air. If you really want it, I can go and look it up. Science has most definitely been able to prove the evolution of men from simpler organisms. Once more, if you do not believe this, I'll get you the evidence.
Your comparison is pointless as it has no solid ground. Science is an evidence based process.
Btw, proof is for mathematics and logic, the real world does not work with proof, only evidence

[quote author=larger_20 link=topic=3883.msg131436#msg131436 date=1134702914]All this transfer...u mean wire tranfer right?

I don't know alot about money market but anytime I need to process some money here in the US, I go through the nigerian embassey then they will send document to the CBN then from CBN to UBA before the money get wired to me. Is this the same thing? I mean....[/quote]I didn't know you'd had to pass through the embassy to do that in the US. Seems to be a lot of effort to me. UBA has got branches in the US, so a simple SWIFT transfer, without intermediaries should do the trick. Or are you trying to wire money from Nigeria to the US?

I get so tired of all of this.

Belief in a supreme being is irrational. It may be comforting, it may give you purpose, it may even help you be a better person, but in the end it remains irrational. Having faith is believing without evidence.
I only believe in what is based on solid evidence. If you want me to believe in your God, bring me evidence of his existence that can withstand scientific scrutiny.
Nobody has ever been able to do that.
Using the Bible to prove a point is useless unless it is supported by external evidence, e.g. there is a strong likelyhood that Jesus actually was a real person because several independent sources point at his existence.

Talk about spirit, God, intentions, and what Jesus actually said, does not lead anywhere because it is intangible and cannot be proven. All these things have to be taken by faith and only through faith do they become a personal reality. Utterly meaningless if you do not met the requirement of having faith. The very survival of this worldview is only relying on the fact that those who subscribe to it do not question it ever.

Aren't you people upset by this practice of housegirls?

davidylan:
another salient question to ask is, what happens to the exchange rate? the cedi or franc exchanges at outrages rates to the US dollar! what do you think that would do to an already weak naira? or are u assuming a new currency will change that?
besides, how many of these countries e.g togo, ghana have the foreign reserve that we have, they will just use our hard earned money as collateral to import and borrow!

That's why the first step needs to be monetary equalization. This is the main criterium that is imposed on would be EU member states. If they don't get their house in financial order (or at the level of the other partners), they cannot possibly integrate.

Concerning using your hard earned money: that's the price to pay: Spain,Portugal and Greece have benefited enormously from EU membership, but by allowing these economies to integrate and grow, you create an internal market.
If it weren't for the EU, European countries would still be vassal states to the US after WW2. Now the EU is largely self-sufficient and can easily cut itself off from world markets if the need would arise.

You should get out of your sovereign nation state thinking. The only country for which such a model would still apply is the US and then still.... The EU is not a real nation, but the member countries have given away a lot of sovereignty for the greater good. If only those stubborn Brits would realise that the Empire is no longer

The problem is also an internal one in that the countries' representatives need to sufficiently representative for their people's interest. The OAU would be too large a group to get any internal legitimacy. Withing the EU, three countries started the effort (The Netherlands, Belgium and Luxemburg) by joining in the Benelux economic cooperation union. Later France, Germany and Italy followed. Anyway, why not start by going for a union of Ghana, Togo, Benin and Nigeria? There is enough relative stability there to at least start the effort.

lioness:
You all should just drop it already

Ok, I'm going to be good and do what you ask

davidylan:
we do not need weapons of mass destruction to be a world's economic power. in doubt? ask japan!

Africa cannot unite and form an EU like government, we are not yet ripe for it. that is the problem with ecowas today, thousands of illegal immigrants flood the country everyday unchecked leading to diseases, increased crime rate apart from skyrocketiing unemployment rates. each african country shld develop to the level of individual european nations before we think of a united AU! even the EU will not accept the poorer east european nations! They don't want a flood of immigrants taking away all their hard earned jobs and money!

Be carefull with your xenophobic depictions of immigration. This is exactly the kind of rhetoric right-wing anti-immigration parties use in Europe. The EU [b]is [/b]accepting and integrating the poorer Eastern European countries. These depictions of the consequences of immigration are not established facts, on the contrary. An integration like the EU does not need a specific level of economic development, but rather a normalisation of economies, infrastructure, currency and above all removing all internal trade barriers. As far as the economic actors are concerned, ECOWAS should be just like one country.

davidylan:
AFrica needs to invest in education, let us have educated and seasoned leaders. those who have the interests of their countries at heart! Let us stop this idea that we have to be pro-western before we can develop, china is not and never will be and yet they ar the world's largest exporters of electronic goods including computers!

I wouldn't use the economic development of China a good example to follow. The only competitive advantage they currently offer is cheap labour, at the cost of an ecological and social wasteland. Internal trade is what is needed. Intelligently set up tariff walls for goods and services that are internally produced and remove internal trade barriers untill those economic sectors are viable.

davidylan:
The so-called western nations are only after what they can get from us, our focus shld be on improving the lives of our citizens at minimum risk to us, i don't care if we get the technology from Iran or the USA or Russia.

The actors on the economic field are not the nations, but rather the multinational conglomerates, who use national and supra-national institutions to their own benefit. Corporations are by nature psychopathic and if their power is unchecked, they create havoc wherever they are not curbed. Strong institutions can help here, but individual nation states in Africa are too weak to effectively counter these forces. That's why Africa needs to go for supra-national institutions of their own (ECOWAS could be a prime target).

davidylan:
the truth is the major western powers will never allow africa to rise because we are the reason they are where they are today, major world players today including the USA, canada, england, france are those who have benefited from slave trade and colonialism whether then or now in the form of neocolonialism. If Africa rises to the status of the Asian tigers then they know they are in great trouble!

Yes and no. The rise of the West is largely (but not exclusively) built on the exploitation of the periphery. This has created unequal positions of power, but there is no manicheistic ghost in a machine steering all of this. It's a self-organising system that tries to perpetuate itself in the current status quo.
Economic development is not a zero-sum game. If Africa develops, the world is better of, only, it is not rational for individual economic actors to aid in achieving this goal.
There are other stable states that bring an overall better quality of life for everyone on the planet, but the chain needs to be broken and it will not break by itself. Internal development is the key.

[quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=3885.msg130591#msg130591 date=1134643552]It is your work, what you do with your FREE WILL God do not care about you. Lucifer is their to tempt you. If you like fail then HELL is there.[/quote]So what you're saying is that God is not good

RhodaRose:
The Creator made this for you to enjoy and find peace and tranquility in. When you "feel the divine" this is His Love you feel and whether you know it or not this does "include an entity external from the natural world". If it didn't then you could meditate and find peace and tranquility on the streets of a busy, bustling city.
This is not a "religious" feeling but one of Relationship with your Creator who Loves you.

You may call it what you want. I do not believe in a creator. Only in an environment where you can deprive your senses of too much input can you reach such a state, so this will never (for me at least) be possible on a busy street. Some people can also reach that state by fasting or prayer.

RhodaRose:
Yes, you believe correctly. God is Spirit and it would be hard to "picture" Him but you can understand Him because He sent His Holy Spirit to Teach us of Him.

I don't really understand what you mean by spirit. This has no real meaning for me.

RhodaRose:
God does not limit our abilities when it comes to knowing Him.
A[/b]sk [b] S[/b]eek [b]K[/b]nock and He will open to you.
He wants Relationship and not "religion"

Again, this is very confusing. How do you know that relationship is real?

If a man believes the situation to be real,it is real in its consequences. (W.I. Thomas)

RhodaRose:
If "this world is a proving ground" Who do you think is "proving" us? and for what?
...our Creator!!

De 13:3
Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: [b]for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
De 13:4
Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

RhodaRose:
Yes Exactly !!! "I have to suspend my critical thinking, logic and cognitive abilities"
"I cannot in good conscience do that" Yes, you can because that "good conscience" is of the "world and flesh"...and you mention "our free will" that God gave us...He gave us this for only one purpose...to choose that His Will be done in our lives. There are really only two choices: Life or death, Choose LIFE!!!

If God truly exist and if God is truly good, then your actions will determine what becomes of you, not your mind, over which you have no control.

RhodaRose:
...and this is bad?...having comfort in this uncomforting world?

No, it isn't bad, absolutely not. It's just not for me.

RhodaRose:
"The fact the there ultimately is no such thing in the universe is discomforting and troubling to many"

Then they should read this:

Mt 11:28-30
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Joh 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed

Joh 14:27
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

God is Good, All the Time

RhodaRose

Again, I am happy that they can find what they seek in their belief. It is just not for me. As I said before: Following God as revealed in the Bible would mean that I have to suspend my critical thinking, logic and cognitive abilities. I cannot in good conscience do that.

Eddy Tells:
its good to know that you can be intolerant too.............ohh wait a minute, your not a christain.
I guess intolerance is a non christain virtue. This thread is far from being a catholic bashing thread.

Right, why not try some rhetorical tricks if all else fails.
1. Being intolerant of intolerance means that I'm not accepting intolerance in any form, not that I do not tolerate other people's beliefs.
2. An instance of intolerance by a member of a group (and even that is false) does not mean that the group is the flagship of intolerance
3. The thread stared out as a discussion, the only reason you can have to perpetuate it, is Catholic bashing

Eddy Tells:
I believe that people tell others what they want to hear and until u push them to the wall, u really never get what's actually in their mind. I started this thread because i wanted to know. And i'd do anything and everything to know. Its free for everyone to make a comment and if i disagree with comment, i don't see any problem with that. If you can't stand it.........Your bad!!!!!

That's a weird way of discussing. Why not use the Socratic method and continue asking [i]why [/i]instead of repeating the same mantra over and over again. This would be a more fruitful approach.

Eddy Tells:
By the way, you didnt have to be this rude

Actually, those words were not directly intended for you, your position falls short of that description (but maybe you'll get there one day ) I could have posted it in another thread as well.

Swish:
ok let,s say thats i believe in hhow got made it in the beginning

Then you also believe in genocide, cruelty, human sacrifice, ...
Why pick out this?

Eddy Tells:
Gezz! whats eating u up

The only thing I'm intolerant about is intolerance. Live and let live, you know. This whole thing turned into a pointless exercise of Catholic bashing. Even though the Catholics over here have expressed their opinion over why they are (or are not) born again, you zealously continue in your anti-Catholic quest. The fact that this does not satisfy you only shows that you cannot really accept people having different opinions.

This is no longer about the content of the topic.

I have the distinct impression that, even though I don't believe, my walk in life is much closer to the true spirit of Jesus' teachings that many of you Bible thumping, intolerant religious bigots. To all of you - and those to whom it applies will know - your religion is just a dark cloak to hide your venom.

Eddy Tells:
well........................ i don't think Jesus was tolerant at all times otherwise He would not have wipped those folks out of the temple.

I can't believe what I'm reading, what about turning the other cheek, loving your ennemies and letting the one without sin throw the first rock? There is never, ever a sustitute for leading a good, moral life, whether you believe in this, that or nothing.

myname:
am disapoited that even some of u in the room that call urselfs christians will agree that the God u serve is thesame with am idol in Ka'aba called Allah. pic it upon yourself to study the origin of Islam very well n come back to answer this question. THEYU ARE NOT AND WILL NEVER BE THE SAME

[quote author=Hnd-holder link=topic=682.msg130548#msg130548 date=1134641199]Why? this is fanatical. Did you ever see GOD ? and you will never see him until .... Mix up of religion God Or Allah is one. Spend your time wisely.[/quote]The funny thing is that I have never seen this kind of fanatical thinking in Muslims in any of my real life and online encounters. It always seems to be a specific kind of Christian that needs to behave like that. Maybe the Crusades are [i]recent [/i]history after all
And it's not the Catholics that behave like that nowadays.

Eddy Tells:
That again, is another good point. I just can't hide it

But why? Do you consider intolerance a good Christian value?

The term [i]housegirl [/i]alone gives me the creeps. In many instances it's just one step above slavery (as demonstrated in this case)

myname:
am disapoited that even some of u in the room that call urselfs christians will agree that the God u serve is thesame with am idol in Ka'aba called Allah. pic it upon yourself to study the origin of Islam very well n come back to answer this question. THEYU ARE NOT AND WILL NEVER BE THE SAME

<SARCASM type="bitter" serious=NO>
Pick up the Sword, Soldier of Christ, and drive the unbelievers from the holy land. Ignorance is a virtue, tolerance is for weenies
</SARCASM>

myname:
bill is a registered member of the church of satan. so forget his funny excuses

otokx:
i can't manage my nigerian acounts from every where in nigeria talk less of outside.

Apparently STB allows you to do that. If you can make transfers to other Nigerian accounts, if you can transfer money to people even if they do not hold an account with the bank, all using their e-banking services, then that's what I need. If only their commissions weren't that high

I'm looking forward to testing it out.

Eddy Tells:
Good point Nferyn

But that doesn't mean that I find the orgiginal questions having much value. It's like two theologists discussing how many angels fit on the top of a needle.
Your motivation seems to be: Let's bash some catholics, they're fake anyway

@ Swish
You still haven't come up with anything even remotely resembling an argument.
Try to address the why of your beliefs. there is no solid ground for any of them.

gbengaijot:
Have u guys checked www.naijafunds.com , i think it cost 50 dollars to transfer 500 dollars. and they can transfer it into your account in Nigeria.

10% costs on money transfers is completely ridiculous. When doing a SWIFT transfer to a Nigerian bank, we will never pay more than €150 costs, even for amounts over €20.000 (Fixed costs: max €100, min €7 + max 1 promille on the amount + communication costs for SWIFT messages (negligable))

My main concern is the management of the accounts from abroad. I can fully manage my Belgian accounts from anywhere in the world.

omon:
One report puts it that the likes of Bayelsa and Delta gets up to 9 billion naira monthly. How many other states in Nigeria gets such amount of money? I know Delta state even earns higher than that.. The truth is that you can build a brand new city that can compare with Tokyo with that amount if they are prudent. So make sure you blame you leaders as well for the woes in the Niger Delta

You have got to be kidding. You can build a few administrative buildings at best if you're very prudent with the money. Good infrastructure is horribly expensive.

The Corrs have better voices. The lyrics of Alanis Morisette are waaay better than these of the Corrs.

QUEENZY:
@Cimon Jorr
Its not in every picture u take that u smile as if u doin an advert for all this tooth paste companies.OK?

CimonJorr is right, you need be able to vary your facial expressions if you're serious about modelling.
Also, do not always look into the camera.

Mazi:
However STB (Standard Trust Bank now UBA) stands out, as you can transfer money to a Named Beneficiary. ie Someone that doesn't have an account with the bank. You enter a test key and relay same to the beneficiary and the Branch to pickup the funds from and its done. I have done it so many times.

We (my wife and I) are currently working with UBA and I found their offering subpar. As we're with UBA (and not STB) and the integration will only be a fact by march, we do not have that possibility. I was making the enquiry especially because I thought their offering was insufficient. They also charge you 1% commission on all transactions from and to a Euro account, which is - if you compare it to international standards pure theft..

Anyway, in Belgium I am a customer of Fortis and what they offer is far superior: full management of bank accounts (this includes all transaction you can do in the bank), including international tranfers. On top of that you manage your insurances, mortages, pension savings, stocks & bonds and credit cards all using one point of entry. All transactions are secured through the use of a digipass.

I was very happy to find out that recently Nigeria entered the SWIFT system as well, so that we could make tranfers to Nigeria without having to pass throug Western Union or the likes.

Anyway, thanks for the info. We are looking forward to the time when we'll be able to use the STB services.

Hey, I'm baptised, so I'm free of the original sin and born again on top
Isn't there a requirement to believe ?