₦airaland Forum

Fallacies, Fallacies!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Statsocial:
Focus on Church Growth in Nigeria:
ADEBOYE'S REDEEMED CHRISTIAN CHURCH OF GOD AND OYEDEPO'S LIVING FAITH CHURCH; ONE OF THE GREATEST TESTIMONIES OF INTER-CHURCH HARMONY IN GLOBAL MEGA-CHURCH HISTORY.

By Leke Beecroft

"And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devil's in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: FOR HE THAT IS NOT AGAINST US IS FOR US".

As the Church continues into the latter of the last days, it seems that strife, rivalry and competition are more pronounced than ever. From the days of Christ aptly described by the above scripture to the schism between Apostles Paul and Barnabas over John Mark in Acts chapters 12 and 15, the Church began to experience strife in various dimensions as it grew globally.

The Catholic Church came as a result of fusion of religion and political power and catholicism soon ruled the world. From thence came forth the Church of England (Anglican) and Lutheran Churches. Soon the Methodist Church resulted as a reaction to the Anglican doctrines. The Baptists also emerged due to dissatisfaction with the Church of England. These events and many others leading to the growth of orthodox christianity globally over about 1,900 years can be considered as the First Wave of Church Growth and spread.

In the early 20th century, the Azusa Revival by Seymour and Charles Parnham's (who also left the Methodist Church) pentecostal revival happened at about the same time leading to the evolution of pentecostalism. The Second wave led to the birth of the Apostolic Faith Mission, Assemblies of God, Church of God in Christ (the oldest black church), The Apostolic Church and Foursquare Church among many others. These churches spread to Africa in the first part of the 20th century.

The 3rd wave period varied around the world; in Africa and specifically Nigeria, it's most populous nation, it began with the advent of the Christ Apostolic Church (CAC) who broke off from TAC in 1940, the Redeemed Christian Church of God (RCCG) in 1952, a departure from the pervasive white garment churches at the time and the Church of God Mission in 1968 led by Idahosa (formerly of the Assemblies of God). Soon, Nigerian universities produced indigenous university graduates who led the. 4th wave led by Kumuyi's 'Deeper Life', Tunde Joda's 'Christ Chapel',Mike Okonkwo's 'The Redeemed Evangelical Mission' (TREM) Oyedepo's 'Living Faith', Wale Oke's 'Sword of the Spirit', Olubi Johnson's 'Scripture Pasture', Omobude's 'New Covenant', Oritsejafor's 'Word of Life', Olukoya's 'Mountain of Fire' (MFM) 'and Oyakhilome's 'Christ Embassy' to mention but a few. The 5th (Joshua Generation) and 6th (Generation Next) waves are subjects which will be discussed in two of my upcoming books.

The 3rd wave in America led to the emergence of pentecostal greats such as Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts and Jack Coe. At some point, Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts, Gordon Lindsay and T.L Osborn all lived within the same block of flats. Coe who was affiliated to Assemblies of God and eventually had to part ways with them was dynamic and enthusiastic in his beliefs. Coe knew Oral Roberts and was taken in by the size of Robert’s 3,000 capacity revival tent. One day Coe went to a Roberts’s tent meeting and measured his tent. He then ordered a larger one. Subsequently, Coe announced that his tent was the largest in the world. He employed about 80 men which was considered a success at that time. He however kept his men on their toes, always sending them to measure other tents to ensure that none ever passed his. He died before he was 40. Such stories of competition and rivalry have continued to date, often being the case that the larger the ministries involved, the greater the rivalry.

Such rivalries even in Nigeria, partly led to the formation of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN) by Idahosa and others. The newly ordained leader of the RCCG, Enoch Adeboye on his part played a major role in the commissioning of Oyedepo to start the Living Faith Church in 1983. He prophesied "This ministry shall be great". At the time, RCCG had 38 branches including one outside Nigeria (Ghana) while Oyedepo started church in December 1983 in Kaduna with 3 other members.

I first got to know of the RCCG in 1993 as a teenager through a RCCG calender. My parents had newly moved to Lagos. This seemed to be a fast growing church and I took interest in it. In 1997, I got to meet Pastor Adeboye with my Dad at the Redemption Camp. Four things struck me firsthand. First was Adeboye's humility and second, the mammoth crowd at the Holy Ghost Night-the largest Christian gathering in Nigeria. Third was the size of the venue of the meeting and fourth was the expansive land called the 'Redemption Camp'. My first meeting with Oyedepo was in 1989 when he displayed the architectural model of the soon to be constructed 'Garden of Faith' at the. Kongo Conference Hotel, Zaria. I thought it was simply too ambitious; it was going to be the largest church building in northern Nigeria. In 1996, I walked into the Garden of Faith. Again, I was in the Faith Tabernacle, a sequel to the Garden of Faith in 1999 at dedication. I could tell by the late 90s that these two churches were going to 'reign'. However, as was normally said at the time, the church reigns were seasonal and would only last a while before other ministries took over. Say, 3, 4 or 5 years. Examples of churches which had previously 'reigned' were commonly mentioned.

At the foundation laying of Faith Tabernacle, I went with a number of RCCG members (Redeemed Christian Fellowship, Yabatech), also students, who were keen to know one fact :how many acres was Canaanland? Oyedepo as if knowing the minds of his church members made a profound statement during that event which struck deep "We are not in a competition, we are in a commission". My Dad referred to that statement after the service. From then till date, the two leaders have together and independently made statements and taken actions that have kept members in a good place. A place where they see each other as brethren and not rivals. Stories abound of relationships gone sour but this has stood the test of time.

It may be necessary to at this point mention some of the testimonies of these two ministries headquartered within the same location, Ogun State, Nigeria to understand the magnitude of greatness they've had to manage. RCCG in 64 years has established over 32,000 branches in 140 countries while Living Faith has in 35 years established about 8,000 in 60 countries and often builds the largest single church in every city of Nigeria and many cities of Africa with services held live online in about 160 nations. The two ministries have also run successful aviation organisations to the chagrin of critics. RCCG's Redemption Camp is about 40,000 acres while Canaanland is about 17,000 acres making them the two largest Christian estates in the world. The sheer size of Redemption Camp has led to court cases with two other mega churches. Providence however located RCCG at Lagos-Ibadan Expressway while placing LFC at the other end, the Ota-Idiroko Expressway. The RCCG oversees about 200 nursery and primary schools while Living Faith Church (LFC) runs about 160. RCCG owns about 10 secondary schools while LFC administers 20. RCCG owns Redeemers University while LFC presently runs 2, Covenant and Landmark. The two churches own two of the largest Christian residential estates in the world. Presently, RCCG is constructing the 3km by 3km Arena, considered the largest open air pavilion in the world while LFC is constructing an ultra-modern 100,000 capacity Faith Theatre which is double in size of 50,000 seat Faith Tabernacle, currently the world's largest church auditorium.

These however wane when considering that in 1998, the RCCG gathered by CNN estimates, about 7.2 million people, considered the largest gathering of Christians in the world at Lekki, Nigeria. The numbers haven't necessarily decreased and church membership for a church less than 70 years is in excess of 6 million. LFC on the other hand gathers weekly, what is considered the largest gathering of christians, (numbering in excess of 400,000) anywhere in the world.

That these two ministries have handled growth well has not come without challenges. From differences in doctrines, to perception by overzealous members. The unity in leadership has ensured the friendship between members. The last elections in Nigeria brought up a RCCG Vice-Presidential candidate as well as an incumbent President who visited Canaanland weeks to the election. Elections came and went and the fallout was managed properly. A few weeks later, Vice President Osinbajo visited Covenant University hosted by Oyedepo. In one of my interviews conducted with a very successful and senior pastor of RCCG in 2011, he asked me "I used to think Oyedepo was a noisemaker and that we only had to contend with Catholics, Baptists and Methodists; please tell me, where does Oyedepo get all that money" ? The corporate tithing doctrine practiced by LFC seems to be a sort of icing on the cake of this relationship.

It is my earnest prayer that long after these patriarchs are departed and if Jesus tarries, the two ministries will not only continue their roles in the expansion of the Kingdom, but remain a model of inter-church harmony even till the end of the age.

"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another"
Romans 12:5



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=845147855629087&id=444807728996437

After the destruction of the temple in 70AD. There is no location that you can referred to as the house of God. 
God did not put his presence in any man made building or location again except in human beings! The living stones which make up the congregation of Yahweh that is the body of Christ with him being the chief cornerstone.
If any man says God has put his anointing in a physical location or building and his Holy spirit now resides there is lying or ignorant of scriptures. Holy spirit now resides in living stones not the one made with human hands.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But if I delay, that you may know how it is necessary to behave in the household of God, which is the church of THE LIVING GOD, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
in case I'm delayed. I want you to know how people who are members of God's family must live. God's family is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.


Bible > NIV > Acts 7

◄ Acts 7 ►
47But it was Solomon who built a house for him.

48“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

49“ ‘Heaven is my throne,

and the earth is my footstool.

What kind of house will you build for me?

says the Lord.

Or where will my resting place be?

50Has not my hand made all these things?’l

51“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit

This is Paul talking to Timothy here and Steven talking to the sanhedrin . You see God is spirit and he has shed his Holy spirit upon true believers not on buildings made with human hands.
Folks let us be true to scriptures. Let scriptures speak out for itself. Paul, Timothy, Steven, Peter, james all knew God has not put his spirit on building or at any location but on believers. Yahshua never taught them that God would place his anointing on any man made structure.

Pierocash:
Yes! I am a worker in the House of God and will work for God till i die.On whether i am benefitting from tithe, the answer is emphatic yes, i pay my tithe consistently and have been benefitting frm the blessings of tithing and will continue to benefit the blessing.If u are nt a tither,i advice to tap into such Kingdom principle for financial fortune to be ur portion.No non tither can be blessed.argue it Frm Here till 2mrw,u cannot do anything against the truth bt for the truth

The church should allow free sharing of devotionals so far it's not for monetary gains. 
This clarifies and reflects the spirit behind the church's efforts of publishing such devotional- to spread the gospel or otherwise for monetary gains
When the disciples saw a man preaching, praying and healing people in Yashua's name they try to stop him and informed yahshua about it, yahshua answers leave him alone, he is helping to spread the gospel, he is not an enemy. 
MARK 9:38-40
38“Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

39“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us.

The church should allow free sharing of devotionals so far it's not for monetary gains.
This clarifies and reflects the spirit behind the church's efforts of publishing such devotional- to spread the gospel or otherwise.
When the disciples saw a man preaching, praying and healing people in Yashua's name they try to stop him and informed yahshua about it, yahshua answers leave him alone, he is helping to spread the gospel, he is not an enemy.
MARK 9:38-40
38“Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

39“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 

MsNgo40:
Although I am not a member of this particular church, I think you guys are not understanding the greater point of the situation.
Regardless of what the reason(s) may or may not be, the church institution actually is a business (in a sense). Anytime, finances are involved, legalities come into play.
They have a right to allow or forbid how their material is shared...point blank.
If certain individuals have wrong motives for making this decision, then that is for God to deal with.
It neither negates nor excuses what those who have been sharing it (with good motives) NOW have an obligation to do.
They have said to stop sharing it without their permission...so that's what folks have to do.
Perhaps folks can now venture out in faith, create their own devotional and allow free access to everyone...however they want to do it.
Yes...Christ wants all to have His Word in their hands...but to print Bibles is not free.
Money is involved be it through donations or however funds are generated.
Same thing for an operating institution.
Remember folks, this is a devotional...an encouraging and beautifully written devotional....but it is..NOT the Bible....
Perhaps, folks need to go back to the original blueprint.

Christian practice were Not open practice, it was secretive . If cut you are either imprisoned or killed.
That was a collection of true believers
When Christianity was legalised as a state religion. Everyone governors, elites, generals, pagan worshippers of Rome became christians. In fact if you want to make it career wise, political field you have to be a Christian.
This new Christianity was not a true one it was Catholicism- a cocktail of pagan worship and Christian faith.
Now what the devil could not achieve by persecuting and killings he achieved by legalizing Christianity and promoting a lukewarm attitude and introducing paganism into the faith.
This strategy was used by balek/ Ballam when it was impossible to curse Isreal. They simple made friends with them, infiltrated them and led them into sin hence the curse and judgement of sin broke out on Isreal.

Ubenedictus:
bishops were Christian leaders who together with the presbyter led the Church, they weren't paid fixed salaries but as st Paul taught he who works on the altar may it there and even till today many bishops don't live in luxury.

the was always a minister distinct from the laity and these ministers were called bishops, presbyter and deacons.

No salaries. What they enjoy is honour and where held in high esteem don't try to monetise their service to Yahweh. People can donate to the when ever they wish no salaries this people were hiding in caves tunnels secretly holding meetings just to fellowship together and you are talking about someone demanding for salary. When people are been fed to lions for being a Christian.
People's blood is been spilt for the sake of the gospel and you are talking of bishop collecting salaries.
Why are you trying to rewrite history when we know that bishop being paid salary only started in the era of pagan roman Catholic Christian era!!
So all out to defend monetise gospel/salvation system that the protesting Catholic churchs of today inherited from pagan Catholicism

Ubenedictus:
bishops were Christian leaders who together with the presbyter led the Church, they weren't paid fixed salaries but as st Paul taught he who works on the altar may it there and even till today many bishops don't live in luxury.

the was always a minister distinct from the laity and these ministers were called bishops, presbyter and deacons.

By Stan Thompson

The purpose of this article is to bring before the reader God’s thoughts as to Divine order within the Church. It must be clear at the outset that there is no intent to demean true servants of God who have chosen clerisy for their sphere of ministry. The clergy-laity system is so commonly accepted that many sincere God-fearing believers have taken up positions without having first understood God’s design for the Church in His Word.




I realize that questioning the clerical system is disturbing to many who know no other way to conduct the worship and ministry of the local church. There also may be thoughts of "there are so many well-read Godly men and women who believe and practice clericalism, how can I dare begin to question their position?"




To address both of these concerns, let me ask the reader these questions: 


(1) Are we safer following the teachings and traditions of men and their denominational organizations or following God’s Word?


(2) Can the believer understand the Scriptures through the operation of the Spirit alone or is he dependent upon those more educated than himself to guide him? If you are comfortable depending upon others to tell you what is of God, then this article is not for you. You may as well discard it now. If, however, you believe in your heart of hearts that God’s Word alone is able to thoroughly furnish the man of God (2 Timothy 3:17), and it is through the Spirit alone that we can understand His truth (John 16:13), read on. As you do, be alert to your responsibility to refuse any thoughts herein presented or thoughts of your own which are not supported by Holy Scripture.



Headship



The Lord Jesus Christ is the only scripturally recognized head of the Church: "(God) has put all things under His (Christ’s) feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church" (Ephesians 1:22). "(Christ) is the head of the body, the church" (Colossians 1:18).



For individuals to presume authority over the Church is to dishonor the Head.  Diotrophes made this terrible mistake. He loved to have preeminence among the Church and acted on its behalf by not receiving the apostles (3 John 9,10).



Many Christians readily acknowledge the headship of Christ in principle but fail to see the practical out-working of Christ as Head. First, we accept by faith that He is present among those gathered to His Name: "For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there am I in the midst of them (Matthew 18:20). Second, He directs and leads the Church by His Spirit: "In (Christ) you also are built together for an habitation of God through the Spirit" (Ephesians 2:21, 22). "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, Separate Me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them" (Acts 13:2). 


It was not the clergy making the decisions as directed by the Spirit. It was the Spirit of God making known to the gathered believers what the mind of Christ was.



Christ has given the Church authority to act on His behalf: "Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matthew 18:18). "In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of the Lord Jesus Christ, to deliver such an one unto Satan" (1 Corinthians 5:4,5). 


This authority was not given to the clergy or to any other subset of the Church. All believers gathered in a single locality form the Church at that place. Only the local Church as a whole has authority to act in His Name.



Practically speaking then, how are decisions to be made? How is the Church to determine what is the mind of Christ? 


The example in Acts holds the key, "as they ministered to the Lord and fasted." If each heart were in prayer and submissive to the Lord, He will make His mind known just as clearly as He did in the Acts.



What if a vote were taken and 80% thought to take one action and 20% another? 


Should the Church go with the 80%? How can it? 80% of the church is not the Church and, therefore, has no authority from Christ to act. 


Perhaps the 20% have the Lord’s mind. God is often pleased to work with a minority (e.g. in Salvation, Matthew 7:14; 22:14; with Gideon, Judges 6; with Asa, 2 Chronicles 14:11; with the Jewish remnant, Isaiah 1:9).



If the church is divided, then part or all are not being submissive to Christ. An action taken in this condition cannot be considered the Lord’s mind. The objection often heard to this is "if we wait for everyone to agree then nothing will ever be done." 


How much we need to learn God’s ways! He has so much to teach us about patience, humility, submission and love for one another. His work in us is far more important than any work we could do for Him. He repeatedly commands us to "be of one mind" (1 Peter 3:8; 2 Corinthians 13:11; Philippians 2:2). Why circumvent His work in us by choosing to be disobedient? "To obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams" (1 Samuel 15:22,23).



Worship



The Jewish system of appointing certain ones to perform priestly duties has been done away with. The work of Christ on the cross has rent the veil providing every believer free access to the Father (Mathew 27:51; Hebrews 10:20). In Christ all believers are priests and have the responsibility to function as priests. "You also as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ…you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light" (1 Peter 2:5,9).



Christian worship is not by schedule or outward forms, but is simply the overflow of the heart to God: "God is Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth" (John 4:24), "But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped Him" (Mark 5:6). Corporate worship is to be conducted "decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40) as empowered by the Spirit: "We are the true circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 3:3).



The concept of having an office in the church whose function it is to dictate corporate worship denies the priesthood of believers and undermines the leading of the Holy Spirit. It requires the one appointed to be filled with Spirit praise at the appointed hour when in fact he may be empty. It reestablishes the Judaistic system whereby only select individuals can perform certain services. In effect, it puts the veil back up between the soul and God.



Ministry



Each member of the body of Christ has been given a special gift and is responsible to use it for the good of the body: "Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace that is given to us, let us exercise them accordingly" (Romans 12:6 NASB). "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal" (1 Corinthians 12:7). "As every man has received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God" (1 Peter 4:10). "But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ…For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" (Ephesians 4:7,12).



The Spirit directs the use of the gifts: "all these works that one and self same Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:7). "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17).



God’s order in the Church allows for the liberty of the Spirit in ministry: "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the others judge. If anything be revealed to another that sits by, let the first hold his peace. For you may all prophecy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted" (1 Corinthians 14:29-31). "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God gives: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ"(1 Peter 4:11).



The concept of having an office in the church whose function it is to monopolize public ministry at the exclusion of other gifted brethren denies the gifts Christ gave and undermines the operation of the Holy Spirit. 


It requires the one appointed to have all the gifts. It requires him to have a message at the appointed hour regardless of whether the Spirit has laid a message on his heart.



Pastors



"Pastor" appears once in the New Testament of most English translations. It refers to one of the gifts given by Christ to the Church (Ephesians 4:7-13). It was never used as a title. It was never connected with a church office that controlled the ministry and worship of the local church. The word itself means "shepherd." How much we need shepherds today among God’s people! We hear so often the question, "Who is your pastor?" If the question were, "Who is your shepherd?", I am sure that many Christians would refuse to put a man in that place and respond, "The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want" (Psalm 23:1



Offices



Deacons were those appointed by the apostles or one directly commissioned by an apostle to serve the church in temporal things such as serving tables (1 Timothy 3:8-13; Acts 6:1-7).



Overseers were elder men in the church (Titus 1:5-9; Acts 20:17,28,29) appointed by the apostles or one directly commissioned by an apostle (Acts 14:19-23; Titus 1:5-9) to shepherd the flock and hold the truth (Acts 20:17, 28-31; Titus 1:9).



There is an attempt today to justify the modern day clergyman as a Biblical overseer. There are a number of problems with this beyond what we have already seen from God’s Word:



The local churches had more than one overseer in their midst (Philippians 1:1; Acts 10:17, 28, 29).


The overseers were not necessarily teachers: "Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the word and doctrine" (1 Timothy 5:17,18).


Teaching in the local church was not confined to the overseers. "I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,) That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helps with us, and labors" (1 Corinthians 16:15,16). "And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John" (Acts 18:24-26).


The qualifications of an overseer rule out many of today’s ordained clergymen who are not elder men, married with children (Titus 1:5-9; 1 Timothy 3:1-7).


The Church today has no authority to appoint overseers.


We never read of overseers being appointed by a local church. The apostles are gone. Those commissioned by the apostles are gone. "Apostolic succession" is not in Scripture. It puts the Protestant in the difficult position of having to own that there was authority in the Roman Catholic church to ordain ministers who later separated from it. The Protestant must then attempt to justify separating from that which they must own to be of God.


When the New Testament was completed, the need for appointed overseers was gone. Today, the church has the Spirit of God, the Word of God and the gifts Christ gave to guide, direct, teach, serve, minister and worship. The work of the overseer is still needed and blessed is every one who aspires to that work, but today we look not to men as having authority. We respect those who labor in the Lord and show their godly care for us (Hebrews 13:17), but our Leader, our Master sits upon the right hand of God.



Sin Against the Holy Spirit



Suppose the Spirit of God has filled a brother’s heart with praise prompting him to lead the saints in public worship. Similarly, suppose the Spirit burdens a brother with a message for the gathered believers. He is a priest but cannot function. He has a message and a gift but cannot exercise it. Why? Simply because he is not ordained. He does not have credentials from man. 


The Spirit is quenched (1 Thessalonians 5:19). Blessing is lost. The Name of Christ is not exalted. The justification is "we can’t let just anyone lead in worship and the ministry of the Word. There would be confusion. We would be opening the door to erroneous and unprofitable ministry."

As to confusion, God does not author it (1 Corinthians 14:33).

2. THE CLERGY-LAITY SYSTEM

The second category of Satan’s work is found in the system of the clergy and the laity. Read the history of the church. After Satan began by using so many substitutes to usurp the place of Christ, he invented the clergy-laity system. What was his intention in doing that? It was to kill all the functions of the members of the Body. Originally, all the members without exception were normal, functioning members. But gradually the enemy set up the clergy-laity system to limit the function to just a small number of believers. Since the majority have been put out of function, the Body has been paralyzed.

Oh, the subtlety of the enemy! His first step is to replace the life. He does this with anything other than Christ. His second step is to kill the function. He has done this by installing the clergy-laity system.

Brothers and sisters, we must see the evil strategy of the enemy, Satan, behind these moves. We have taken the clergy-laity system so much for granted. We have been so influenced by our background in Christianity, so steeped in it, that this evil system is in our very bloodstream. There should be no clergy in the church, and neither should there be any laity. We are against the clergy, and we are even more against the laity. Every believer must be a functioning member in the Body. Satan has moved to choke and kill the normal functioning of all the members by the clergy-laity system.

3. DIVISIONS

Do you think that Satan is satisfied with these two items? No. He has taken another step by creating all the sects, denominations, and divisions in the Body of Christ. He has not only replaced the life and killed the function of the members, but he has cut the Body into pieces. He has moved to utterly wipe out the expression of Christ. The life has been replaced, the functions have been severely damaged, to say the least, and the whole Body has been divided. This is his master stroke. He is really clever.

I believe that there are at least fifty thousand real Christians in the city of Los Angeles. Suppose that these fifty thousand were not divided but all together as the one church in Los Angeles. What an impact that would be! Just consider it. If there were such a testimony, it would be easy to conquer the whole earth for Christ. Do you see what the enemy has done and how successful he has been? Oh, the ruin, the desolation, he has wrought! It is by these three categories of things that Satan has wrecked the church life.

Where in this country has the church not been damaged by the influence of these three categories? This country is an old Christian nation, founded by its forefathers for the sake of the Christian faith. But, today, where is the real expression of the church? It is almost nonexistent. Regrettably, the church has been dominated by the substitutes of Christ, the clergy-laity system, and the divisions. This is why we stress so much that Christ must be our life, our content, and everything to us. This is why we are always helping and encouraging all the brothers and sisters to realize their responsibility and function together as normal members of the Body. And this is why we pay so much attention to the matter of the ground of unity—it is the only way to deal with the divisions.

We have seen the black side, the chaotic side, the disastrous results of Satan’s work. But praise the Lord, there is another side. God is moving in these days to recover. What is the way of His recovery? I believe many of us would like to be in that way. It is just in these three things: 1) the recovery of Christ as life and everything to us, 2) the recovery of the functions of all the members, and 3) the recovery of the proper unity. Not until these three things are recovered among us will we have a proper and adequate church life. There must be a group of believers who realize and experience Christ as their life and content and will take no substitute. Not one member of this group would be a clergyman or a layman. They are all living, functioning members of Christ. And all of them have abandoned the denominations, sects, and divisions and come to meet on the ground of oneness to practice the proper unity. If there is such a group, there is the Lord’s recovery, there is a real expression of the Body of Christ, and there the enemy and all his work are put to shame.

(Satan's Strategy Against the Church, Chapter 1, by Witness Lee)

Rome and Christianity

Citation: C N Trueman "Rome And Christianity"
historylearningsite.co.uk. The History Learning Site, 16 Mar 2015. 29 Dec 2017.

Religion was very important to the Romans. Within the Roman Empire, Christianity was banned and Christians were punished for many years. Feeding Christians to the lions was seen as entertainment in Ancient Rome.

A Roman mosaic which is said to be the head of Christ

The message of Christianity was spread around the Roman Empire by St. Paul who founded Christian churches in Asia Minor and Greece. Eventually, he took his teachings to Rome itself.

The early converts to Christianity in Ancient Rome faced many difficulties. The first converts were usually the poor and slaves as they had a great deal to gain from the Christians being successful. If they were caught, they faced death for failing to worship the emperor. It was not uncommon for emperors to turn the people against the Christians when Rome was faced with difficulties. In AD 64, part of Rome was burned down. The Emperor Nero blamed the Christians and the people turned on them. Arrests and executions followed.

“Nero punished a race of men who were hated for their evil practices. These men were called Christians. He got a number of people to confess. On their evidence a number of Christians were convicted and put to death with dreadful cruelty. Some were covered with the skins of wild beasts and left to be eaten by dogs. Others were nailed to the cross. Many were burned alive and set on fire to serve as torches at night.”Tacitus

The dangers faced by the Christians in Rome meant that they had to meet in secret. They usually used underground tombs as these were literally out of sight. Rome had a large number of poor people within its population and Christianity continued to grow. In AD 313, the Emperor Constantine made Christianity legal and for the first time, they were allowed to openly worship. Churches were quickly built not just in Rome but throughout the empire. In AD 391, the worship of other gods was made illegal.
This bishops were Christian leaders along with elders that help coordinate they where not paid salaries or living in luxury. There was no laity/ clergy division.
Until Christianity was merged with mithrism and other religions

Ubenedictus:
before Christianity became an official religion there were Bishops of Rome many of whom were killed especially when Christianity was persecuted.

the early Christian named the bishops of Rome

I think he has not put his message across properly. What he tried to say to pastors is to make the proper impact at home first, preach the correct doctrines, promote righteousness in Nigeria first! impact your community first! before you travel far away . Let your church activities produce good fruit in nigeria; reduce poverty, correct corruption among members and politicians, promote true love, kindness, hope, mercy and justice in Nigeria.
In fact righteousness exhalts a nation and you don't even need to travel abroad. The nation's would come to you in their millions .

Let's be true most of the churches opening abroad is all to get hard currency. If there were no money to make , then 80% of the church organisations would back out.

alBHAGDADI:
When I spoke of how Freeze is on a mission to destroy Christianity, many doubted me. Now, in this video he's telling Churches not to open branches in places like Dubai and China simply because our government, not Churches, beg those Countries for money. Yes, some Pastors may be false, but does that mean everyone of them is?

Freeze is clearly an Antichrist who is trying to prevent Christians from carrying out the assignment given to them by Jesus Christ.

Mark 16:15

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

This ideology of a physical God, in a physical place or anointing in a physical location or building is a pagan ideology at its best. This was the pagan ideology that made children of Isreal to build a golden calf. Yahweh is spirit and He wanted to speak to the face to face from the mountain but they could not comprehend.
They insist on having a physical God or object.( They actually taught the golden calf now represents yahweh)
They wanted a king a physical one not a king they cannot see so God gave them Saul.
Yahweh has to allow a foreshadow system of worship to keep them in check. Their minds where too carnal.
Even yahshua said Moses allowed you to divorce your wives because your heart were to Hard to teach!.

petra1:
The church is called The house of God and The place where God is worshiped is called the house of God .

After the destruction of the temple in 70AD. There is no location that you can referred to as the house of God.
God did not put his presence in any man made building or location again except in human beings! The living stones which make up the congregation of Yahweh that is the body of Christ with him being the chief cornerstone.
If any man says God has put his anointing in a physical location or building and his Holy spirit now resides there is lying or ignorant of scriptures. Holy spirit now resides in living stones not the one made with human hands.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But if I delay, that you may know how it is necessary to behave in the household of God, which is the church of THE LIVING GOD, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
in case I'm delayed. I want you to know how people who are members of God's family must live. God's family is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.


Bible > NIV > Acts 7

◄ Acts 7 ►
47But it was Solomon who built a house for him.

48“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

49“ ‘Heaven is my throne,

and the earth is my footstool.

What kind of house will you build for me?

says the Lord.

Or where will my resting place be?

50Has not my hand made all these things?’l

51“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit

This is Paul talking to Timothy here and Steven talking to the sanhedrin . You see God is spirit and he has shed his Holy spirit upon true believers not on buildings made with human hands.
Folks let us be true to scriptures. Let scriptures speak out for itself. Paul, Timothy, Steven, Peter, james all knew God has not put his spirit on building or at any location but on believers. Yahshua never taught them that God would place his anointing on any man made structure.

petra1:
The church is called The house of God and The place where God is worshiped is called the house of God .

When you say bishop of Rome before Christianity ( Catholicism) became official religion which religion was the bishop of rome under

Ubenedictus:
the primacy of the Roman bishops existed long before the emperors recognized Christianity as a religion. and in fact Rome wasn't the capital city during most of that time. Constantine move the capital to Constantinople and the Bishop of Constantinople was empowered by the emperors not the bishop of Rome.


Rome had the primacy because that is where the apostles Peter and Paul died and the primacy was always exercised since the apostolic times.

when the tithe was instituted in France it was a Church law not a secular law, the Christians willingly gave tithe and nothing was confiscated if one is unable to pay.

The capital of roman empire was Rome. Exercising you faith in yahshua was an illegal practice punishable under roman authority( by imprisonment or death)
Then Constantine came with the vision of the cross, pronounced Christianity a legal faith in the whole empire. This christianity was a merger of pagan practice and the true faith.
Everyone became Christians overnight . The nobles, the pagan priest, the politicians, the general etc. This move arched by Satan was so effective that true Christianity spreading like wildfire under persecution quickly when on downward spiral.
It was after the birth of pagan Catholic church that the capital was moved to Constantinople.
“With the adoption of Christianity, the Roman emperors took it on themselves to issue decrees on matters regarding the Christian Church. Unlike the Pontifex Maximus, they did not themselves function as priests, but they acted practically as head of the official religion, a tradition that continued with the Byzantine emperors. In line with the theory of Moscow as the Third Rome, the Russian Tsars exercised supreme authority over the Russian Orthodox Church.”
The queen is the head of the CHURCH OF ENGLAND. They coped this from ancient time. State and church are not separated until recent times.
Now the remnant believers where stamped out over the years by pagan Rome of which a past pope issued an official public apology for. ( drunk with the blood of the saints)

Ubenedictus:
the primacy of the Roman bishops existed long before the emperors recognized Christianity as a religion. and in fact Rome wasn't the capital city during most of that time. Constantine move the capital to Constantinople and the Bishop of Constantinople was empowered by the emperors not the bishop of Rome.


Rome had the primacy because that is where the apostles Peter and Paul died and the primacy was always exercised since the apostolic times.

when the tithe was instituted in France it was a Church law not a secular law, the Christians willingly gave tithe and nothing was confiscated if one is unable to pay.

I think the issue of atonement is very clear just let scriptures say what it says and not giving it our own twist version.
We know he is the Passover lamb. He died on the day of the passover. John the Baptist said behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
John the beloved said if we sin, we have an advocate who pleads before the father, once we repent and confess our sins.
Yahshua himself made it clear in mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life as ransom for many.
Angel Gabriel said. His name shall be called yahshua because he would save his people from their sins.
In the book of revelation John the beloved saw the Messiah as a lamb that has been slaughter.

In fact let me not beat about the bush here revelation 5 gives a detailed account of what happened and why mankind needs to be atoned for, that passage completely nailed it.
Yahweh warned the day you eat of this fruit you would surely die ( both spiritually and physical death came upon mankind and every living thing subordinate to mankind) . Now the plan of salvation Yahweh laid out in the scroll nobody in heaven or on earth could execute this plan of salvation , when John started crying that mankind would be lost forever as no one was found worthy to even look inside the scroll, yahshua stepped forward to execute the plan successfully!!!!!!
Folks I give you revelation 5

The Scroll and the Lamb

1Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

6Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits5:6 That is, the sevenfold Spirit of God sent out into all the earth. 7He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. 9And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll

and to open its seals,

because you were slain,

and with your blood you purchased for God

persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,

and they will reign5:10 Some manuscripts they reign on the earth.”

11Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,

to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength

and honor and glory and praise!”

13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb

be praise and honor and glory and power,

for ever and ever!”

14The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

True o! All by His grace and mercy

godisgood200:
Even at tha, that's great. Knowing and sustaining your faith since 1988 no be moimoi nah.

A place is not a congregation either. A congregation means a collection of living people believers.
The word church should correctly read congregation or assemble of believers .
Church is from the word kirk a pagan building of idol worship. The word church is a pagan idol place of worship. Pls read my posting on congregation vs church.

petra1:
i didn't say building . i said place.

That age refers to the author. Mine was 1988

godisgood200:
You gave your life to Christ in 1964? And you are till firm ? Wow. God bless you sir.

Are you based in Nigeria?

Hiswordxray:
I would love to be in one of this fellowship can you direct me to one. There is a lot I must learn, please point me to one of this group.

I have read some of your write ups, lovely it seems you are an effortless writer it's a gift .

Hiswordxray:
That great, I would share with you an experience I had.

At the time when I was getting closer and closer to God He revealed in my spirit the glory of the victorious the Church. It was the most beautiful and glorious thing thing I have ever seen and I was so excited because I have found the solution to every problem in the world. I knew that if the Church enter into the level of glory then all the problem of the world is solve. I knew that God was bringing the Church to this glory and victory. And I couldn't contain my excitement, I was going around telling people that something wonderful is about to happen, I told them that very soon everything is going to be alright (all problem would be solved).

I didn't know what exactly was going to happen and I didn't know when it would happen but I thought it was going to be very very soon. And then God showed me the state of the Church as it is right now. I was so full of grief that I thought it would be impossible for God to bring her to the level of glory and victory that I saw in the first experience. I found myself weeping and groaning for the Church, crying for a revival. Then after a while the Spirit took over and I found myself pushing and travailing in birth pain. For two weeks I couldn't pray in tongues. Whenever I try I just kept pushing and travailing in birth pain. The Holy Spirit told me it was for the Church and He gave no further information until one day... I was in the gathering of the brethren praying and God spoke these words to me, "she travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Rev 12:2). And then the revelation came to me.
The time has come for delivery, a baby boy would be born. The Church right now is entering into labor pain. The pain shall be so great that Christians would fear for her death. They would blame it all on the unborn baby. They would hate the baby and what him death. "Alas the baby have brought his mother to her death", this shall be their cry. But no, the baby would be born and he shall cloth the mother with glory - yes that glory kept for her before the foundation of the would. Indeed, a new breed is raising, a male child. They shall break free from the traditions, religion and the doctrines of men and they shall bring restoration...
http://www.hiswordxray.com/search?q=vision+&m=1

God is going to transform Christianity, Christianity is going to be redefined. There is going to be a revolution, the old system would crumble and out of the ashes shall rise a new wine skin. For years I have been trying to see how this new wine skin would be and God has shown me a lot. Our fathers have failed but we would do Church the right way. In my blog I have been putting together the things that God has been showing me. I would share with you a link to something I feel is the basic to understanding Church as it ought to be.

http://www.hiswordxray.com/search?q=Fellowship&m=1

The Nigerian type of religion is the problem promoting selfishness, corruption, money worship and all forms of wickedness.

The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. With the city of Rome being the center of government for the Roman Empire, and with the Roman emperors living in Rome, the city of Rome rose to prominence in all facets of life. Constantine (AD 272–337) and his successors gave their support to the bishop of Rome as the supreme ruler of the church. Of course, it is best for the unity of the Roman Empire that the government and state religion be centralized. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. When the Western half of the Roman Empire collapsed in 476, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors—Pontifex Maximus. Pope Gregory I, ruling from 590–604, is usually considered the first bishop to truly wield papal authority.

If you have not paid your tithe who consficates your property ? It is the church under the authority of Rome empire using roman soldier to execute judgement. the Roman emperor has sanction catholism as the religion of the empire over night a demonic move by antichrist when persecution could not defeat the congregation of believers

Ubenedictus:
the emperor didn't have to sanction it, the church is competent to initiate and implement its own laws within the Church.

Not at the moment but I know Mr femi Aribisala is a coordinator of one of such fellowships. Just people of like minds fellowshiping together, they have leaders and coordinators but no clergy/ laity division everyone is easily approachable, no pastors or bishops. NO pressure except encouragement to pursuit righteousness and help each other and community at large.

MoR2:
Do you belong to any

True, I experienced such assemble years back during my NYSC service , where we have fellowship everyone were of like minds no clergy/ laity division. People gave , laboured to encourage each other and spread the Gospel. It was a lovely time.

MuttleyLaff:
With this knowledge comes an opportunity of improvement.
You can make yourself a better person or become better with it, and as improvement begins with I

Only a dead fish goes with the flow

It is good to know scriptural truth, it points you in the right direction like directing your resources more towards helping the body of Christ which are actually real people with challenges and not waste too much on a building something of no value to Yahweh, that which would pass away.
But I am afraid this kind of scriptural truth is not popular with the crowd.

Hiswordxray:
Very true, now nicemuyoo, what I you going to do with this knowledge?

They do exist everywhere in Nigeria and all over the world but they are a little flock as yahshua said they are not your usual mega churches , but just a collection of believers fellowshiping and encouraging each other in their journey through life.

MoR2:
Nicemuyoo where do you worship?

Do those 'assemblies' exist anywhere?

The Origin of the Word "church" (updated)
By Andy Zoppelt

Part 1: The Word that Changed the World
 

Language and its use of words is vital, it is the fundamental means in which we use to conveying and pass information from one person to another. The changing of one word can literally change the world. Therefore, translators are given an extreme responsibility in making sure they get it right, especially key words. When Jesus said, “Upon this rock I will build my ekklesia.” (Mat 16:18) The Greek word there is ekklesia and is pronounced ek-klay-see-ah. The translators purposely and knowingly used a word identifying a building to support a clergy rather than a word that would build us together as the body of Christ in unity establishing the kingdom of God in every city. Jesus did not and would not have said, "upon the rock I will build my church." The word “church” represents the complete opposite of building His kingdom on this earth as it is in heaven. Jesus would rather have said, "Upon this rock I will build my called out assembly"....a people called out of this world by faith in Him, assembling and gathering in one name and for one purpose all being one. 
Our word “Church” is one of those words that has impacted the world and has subverted the whole purpose for which it was intended. Because the translators used the word “church,” meaning a building, instead of a more accurate word reflecting a functioning body, it has affected our whole approach to the meaning of the body of Christ. We have been given a word from the translators that has nothing to do with the original Greek word ekklesia. There is not a single Greek word to back up the word church. So why is it there?

The early assembly of believers did not have a clergy distinct from the rest of the body. Clergy with titles and authority was foreign to the early disciples. It was the rise of this authoritarian clergy that needed a building to control the people both religiously and politically and to gather the people around the clergy. The Catholic Church and the Church of England both used the word “church” and its meaning as a building to hold the people in subjection to their control. Without a building the clergy would have lost their power over the people. Even today, without a building the clergy system would fall. This system of clergy/laity and the use of a building is what we have come to know as the “institutional” church system. This system was totally foreign to the vocabulary and the life of the disciples of Jesus, who built and depended on the move of the Holy Spirit through all the saints being built together. Therefore the retaining of the word "church" in our translations of the bible became crucial for the survival of the institutional church system even to this day.


To change the true meaning and function of the Greek word “ekklesia” to our English word “church” strengthened the clergy system and their power over the people. The statement, “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” has been the downfall and corruption of body ministry. The original intent was relational and not institutional. For in all the writings of the first and second century we do not find an “institutional” treatment of "ekklesia."

The new Webster’s international dictionary, 1909 edition, gives this definition of the word: 
“Church (church), n. [ME. chirche, fr. AS. circe, fr. Gr. kyriakon the Lord's house, fr. kyriakos concerning a master or lord, fr. kyrios master, lord, fr. kyros power, authority; akin to Skr. gram mighty , bold Olr. caur, cur, hero. Cf. KIRK.] 1. A building set apart for public worship, esp… 2. A place of worship of any religion, as, formerly, a Jewish or pagan temple or a mosque. Acts six. 37.”

There were pagans using the word “church” long before Christians ever began using it. The word church goes back to the Greek kuriakê oikia, which means “the house belong to the lord” or “the Lord’s house”. kuriakon (koo-ree-ak-on') means “belonging to the Lord” and oikos (oy’- kos) meaning “house.” So if the pagans used kuriakê oikia refering to a building belonging to the Lord, what lord were they referring to? The “Lord’s house (kuriakê oikia) was used in the 4th century and clearly was not referring to the Lord Jesus, but rather to the Lord Mithra the “sun-god”; the son god was a famous god among the pagans but with many different names. It was Constantine, who worshipped Mithra as his god and he converted the Mithra god into the Christian house or church. He was the one that transformed the called out assembly into a church recognized by a building and he then set his clergy in charge of the house…as we still see today with our pastors etc.. It all worked out quite nicely for him because he now had both the church and the state under his control.

The tie between the church and state had wielded so much power in history that the framers of our constitution would not permit any church to control our government. The first Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." and Article VI specifies that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." 
The framers of our constitution indeed understood the power of such a tie. But what we have today is a bunch of buildings called church with each pastor having his own kingdom separated from the others in the city… they guard that position and place with their lives. Our assemblies were never to be separated within the city…it was clearly one called out assembly in each city as we see in scripture. Kingdoms are made up of cities within the kingdom and that is what we see in scriptures with the assemblies in the city. The called out assemblies jointly made up the kingdom of God with one King. It was the assembly at Ephesus, the assembly at Corinth and the assembly at Philadelphia, etc.. There was not a bunch of churches ruled by pastors and elders in each city, that would constitute a division within the body of Christ and nullify His rule over the city assemblies…truly a gross injustice and sin.

Tyndale created problems early on in his translation of the scriptures into English. Tyndale, a man who was martyred for his bible,  used the word "church" (churche) only twice, in Acts 14:13 and 19:37; and in both cases he understandingly understood church as a building connected to idol-worship:

Here are the places he used the word church, it is in old English: 
Acts 14:13,Then Iupiters Preste which dwelt before their cite brought oxe and garlondes vnto the churche porche and wolde have done sacrifise with the people. 
Now here is an updating version of his translation to present: 
Acts 14:13, “Then Jupiter’s Priest which dwelt before their city brought oxen and garlands into the church [pagan house of worship] porch and would have done sacrifice with the people.”

Here is the other verse in which he used the word church 
Acts 19:37 “For ye have brought hyther these me whiche are nether robbers of churches [pagan houses of worship] nor yet despisers of youre goddes.” 
Updating Acts 19:37-38, “For you have brought these men to me which are nether robbers of churches nor yet despisers of your goddess.” The reference is to the temple and goddess of Diana of the Ephesians.


Clearly Tyndale understood that the word church represented a pagan house of worship and translated it as thus. He lived much closer to the understanding of the word church than we. His translation was not something that the clergy-driven churches wanted to be known to the many ignorant people of that day who didn’t have bibles in English. That excuse of the availability of the scriptures need not go on today; we have bible programs that go directly to the Greek. Biblesoft has an excellent program that we can switch from the English to the Greek, there may be others but I don’t know of them, but my point is made. 

Greek kuriakê oikia ("house of the lord" relates to many different languages: Icelandic kirkja; Swedish kyrka; Norwegian and Danish kirke; German Kirche; Dutch kerk, Estonian kirik, Finnish kirkko and Old English cirice → Middle English chirche → today’s English church.

“CHURCH: From the Greek kuriakee, "house of the Lord," a word which passed to the Gothic tongue; the Goths being the first of the northern hordes converted to Christianity, adopted the word from the Greek Christians of Constantinople, and so it came to us Anglo-Saxons (Trench, Study of Words). But Lipsius, from circus, from whence kirk, a circle, because the oldest temples, as the Druid ones, were circular in form.” (Fausset's Bible Dictionary)

A building would more serve the purpose of a religious group with a built-in hierarchy than an organic body of believers ministering and loving one another. Christians originally didn’t build buildings for some kind of service as we see today, they were clearly distinguished from the pagans whose focus was on buildings, statues, ritual and physical objects. From its earliest usage, the word “church” has been understood in pagan traditions, then later in Roman Catholicism and now in this present day as a building, but never has the word “church” been demonstrated or justified from a biblical stand point to represent the Greek word ekklesia. Church was a pagan concept and not a Christian one.

When I gave my life to Jesus in 1964, I was falsely led to believe that the activities of the “church” were biblical and an essential part of my being a Christian. As a hungry man for God I just couldn’t understand how sitting in a pew or chair and listening to some person preach from the bible could change my life… especially when the bible spoke overwhelmingly of my relationship with the members and not a pastor. I wanted to experience life, not just hearing about it.

Many say, “We know the church is the building.” Do we? Do we act like it? No, of course not. We go to church rather than each individual functioning as members of an assembly. We ask people what church they go to. When we take up a collection for the church the money goes to the building...something of no eternal value. Each building has its own pastor, its own name and its own congregation. Then what is even more amazing is that we will often quote Hebrews 10:25 for the one missing the church service. But let’s see if this verse matches our typical church service,

“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.”

First, they were an assembly that had purpose; much like the assembly line of an automobile factory where the various parts come together to make the car. Each part had a function within the whole body, a person absent is a part missing. 
This verse does not look much like a church service but rather an environment

The Origin of the Word "church" (updated)
By Andy Zoppelt

Part 1: The Word that Changed the World
 

Language and its use of words is vital, it is the fundamental means in which we use to conveying and pass information from one person to another. The changing of one word can literally change the world. Therefore, translators are given an extreme responsibility in making sure they get it right, especially key words. When Jesus said, “Upon this rock I will build my ekklesia.” (Mat 16:18) The Greek word there is ekklesia and is pronounced ek-klay-see-ah. The translators purposely and knowingly used a word identifying a building to support a clergy rather than a word that would build us together as the body of Christ in unity establishing the kingdom of God in every city. Jesus did not and would not have said, "upon the rock I will build my church." The word “church” represents the complete opposite of building His kingdom on this earth as it is in heaven. Jesus would rather have said, "Upon this rock I will build my called out assembly"....a people called out of this world by faith in Him, assembling and gathering in one name and for one purpose all being one. 
Our word “Church” is one of those words that has impacted the world and has subverted the whole purpose for which it was intended. Because the translators used the word “church,” meaning a building, instead of a more accurate word reflecting a functioning body, it has affected our whole approach to the meaning of the body of Christ. We have been given a word from the translators that has nothing to do with the original Greek word ekklesia. There is not a single Greek word to back up the word church. So why is it there?

The early assembly of believers did not have a clergy distinct from the rest of the body. Clergy with titles and authority was foreign to the early disciples. It was the rise of this authoritarian clergy that needed a building to control the people both religiously and politically and to gather the people around the clergy. The Catholic Church and the Church of England both used the word “church” and its meaning as a building to hold the people in subjection to their control. Without a building the clergy would have lost their power over the people. Even today, without a building the clergy system would fall. This system of clergy/laity and the use of a building is what we have come to know as the “institutional” church system. This system was totally foreign to the vocabulary and the life of the disciples of Jesus, who built and depended on the move of the Holy Spirit through all the saints being built together. Therefore the retaining of the word "church" in our translations of the bible became crucial for the survival of the institutional church system even to this day.


To change the true meaning and function of the Greek word “ekklesia” to our English word “church” strengthened the clergy system and their power over the people. The statement, “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” has been the downfall and corruption of body ministry. The original intent was relational and not institutional. For in all the writings of the first and second century we do not find an “institutional” treatment of "ekklesia."

The new Webster’s international dictionary, 1909 edition, gives this definition of the word: 
“Church (church), n. [ME. chirche, fr. AS. circe, fr. Gr. kyriakon the Lord's house, fr. kyriakos concerning a master or lord, fr. kyrios master, lord, fr. kyros power, authority; akin to Skr. gram mighty , bold Olr. caur, cur, hero. Cf. KIRK.] 1. A building set apart for public worship, esp… 2. A place of worship of any religion, as, formerly, a Jewish or pagan temple or a mosque. Acts six. 37.”

There were pagans using the word “church” long before Christians ever began using it. The word church goes back to the Greek kuriakê oikia, which means “the house belong to the lord” or “the Lord’s house”. kuriakon (koo-ree-ak-on') means “belonging to the Lord” and oikos (oy’- kos) meaning “house.” So if the pagans used kuriakê oikia refering to a building belonging to the Lord, what lord were they referring to? The “Lord’s house (kuriakê oikia) was used in the 4th century and clearly was not referring to the Lord Jesus, but rather to the Lord Mithra the “sun-god”; the son god was a famous god among the pagans but with many different names. It was Constantine, who worshipped Mithra as his god and he converted the Mithra god into the Christian house or church. He was the one that transformed the called out assembly into a church recognized by a building and he then set his clergy in charge of the house…as we still see today with our pastors etc.. It all worked out quite nicely for him because he now had both the church and the state under his control.

Half wrong.
Church is a wrong word, it should read congregation. A collection of true believers. It is not a building. Definately not! There were no congregation buildings , they just meet at people's house like fellowship centres. It could be anywhere.
Any means to classify congregation a collection of believers to be a physical building a man made structure is a big fat lie!!

petra1:
Wrong.

The church is a people the church is a gathering. one person can never be the church. the church is also the place where God is worshiped

Point of correction according to scriptures in revelation and teachings of Jesus . You need faith in yahshua and record of righteous living if not, The saviour himself says the father would cut of that branch (person) that refuse to bear fruit of righteous deeds!!!!!

Ferisidowu:
hmm I'm not surprised you termed this heresy, I did more than this,
now I'm sure all those places you quoted in Revelation were the supreme examples of Christ love for the member of his body, you can't deduce from your head, that's carnal mindedness ..... Christ was correcting the church ... the way he chastised the ones who abused his ordinances, he corrects, even chastises, yes but never condemns his chosen elect who trust in him, oh who can separate us from the love of Christ, if God loves the way I love, what's special about his love, if he loves today and hates tomorrow..... that love isn't dependable ...

the problems with people who them this heresy Is that they believe they have power to fight Satan lolz they have power to fight sin... not knowing that even if they obey the law perfectly like Jesus but weren't born sinless all their perfect obedience to the law is a curse.


now tell me if one is perfectly obedient to the law, will he be justified by it

There are two requirement for salvation and you cannot separate one from the other.
1. Having the testimony of yahshua
2. Obedience to the commandment of Yahweh ( moral law).

"...though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" (James 2:14).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone...." (2:17).

"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" (2:20).

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (2:24).

Yahshua says ;
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven( righteous works not just confession )

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.( good works, righteous deeds, obedience to commandment if you lack this, yahshua himself says you would be cut off and thrown into lack of fire by the father himself).

Matt 2535-40 parable of the sheep and goats.
On the last day the sheep which have the testimony of yahshua were justified for their good deeds by yahshua while the goats who believe in yahshua but did no good works of righteousness where condemned as they have no fruit of good works.
It was their righteous act that separates one from another as this is a proof of your faith. Jesus taught this to James that is why James insist that faith without works is faith dead period you cannot explain or excuse your way out of it!.

A lot of people are been mislead by Paul's epistle. Paul's letters most be interpreted in such a way that it aligns with teachings of Yahushua and the disciples who where taught by the ONLY TRUE TEACHER HIMSELF!!
Peter has issued this warning over 2000yrs ago while they were all alive!!!!!. Nothing can be far from the truth!!!

15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

If you love me obey my commandments why do keep calling me lord lord but do not do what I say

I leave you with the word of the Messiah himself in revelation.
"Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done( works either righteous or unrighteous living)

That is why you have books that would be opened on final day. You need testimony of Yahushua and a record of obedience to his commandment.






By their fruits you shall know them!!!! Says Jesus.

Ferisidowu:
hmm I'm not surprised you termed this heresy, I did more than this,
now I'm sure all those places you quoted in Revelation were the supreme examples of Christ love for the member of his body, you can't deduce from your head, that's carnal mindedness ..... Christ was correcting the church ... the way he chastised the ones who abused his ordinances, he corrects, even chastises, yes but never condemns his chosen elect who trust in him, oh who can separate us from the love of Christ, if God loves the way I love, what's special about his love, if he loves today and hates tomorrow..... that love isn't dependable ...

the problems with people who them this heresy Is that they believe they have power to fight Satan lolz they have power to fight sin... not knowing that even if they obey the law perfectly like Jesus but weren't born sinless all their perfect obedience to the law is a curse.


now tell me if one is perfectly obedient to the law, will he be justified by it