₦airaland Forum

Speaking in tongue on the day if Pentecost the bible clearly gave a narrative of what happened. There were Jews from various parts of the word with different languages travelled from different countries for and God poured out his Spirit and enabled the disciples to speak in various language tongues e.g. European languages, african languages and various ethnic dialects . All people of various nations that are visitors to Jerusalem heard them praising God and Speaking of Good news of the Gospel in THEIR OWN NATIVE LANGUAGES AND THEY WERE ALL AMAZED! AREN'T THIS MEN JEWS HOW COME THEY CAN SPEAK OUR VARIOUS NATIVE LANGUAGES AND DIALECTS

A PRAYER THAT ANY POLITICIAN AND GOVERNMENT OFFICER THAT IS INVOLVE IN ANY FORM OF FRAUD, CORRUPTION, EMBEZZLEMENT OF PUBLIC FUNDS SHOW NOT SEE NEXT YEAR IF THEY FAIL TO REPENT AND DO RESTITUTION AS THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH, SUFFERING, OPPRESSION OF MILLIONS OF NIGERIANS.
I THINK THAT IS AN URGENT PRAYER THIS NATION CALLED NIGERIA NEED.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFkEh5bEXw
[quote author=petra1 post=63109909][/quote]

There is a clear difference between scriptural-historical truth and theological teachings on tithe/ tithing and various other topics. Today i would be mentioning some conclusive statement on tithing based on scriptures and historical facts.
1. Tithe are natural agricultural produce and never money. You 're allow to covert It to money under certain circumstances but you must convert back to acceptable agricultural produce before paying your tithe. If you don't you have to pay a penalty fine on top of your tithe money and once paid it s converted back to food by levies in charge. This was to discourage money tithing.
2. The tithe was a tax system to cater for levites( administrators, judges, teachers etc), widows, orphans, strangers etc. 
3. Only increase from selected natural produces from the land of Isreal are acceptable as tithe .you can not pay tithe on from produce from another land 
4. A carpenter, farm labourer, fisherman etc do not tithe. Disciples, jesus, never paid tithe. Only people with farmland and livestocks paid tithe on their increase.
5. The tithe is never used for anything other than to feed levites, widows, orphans etc.never used for temple/ church building or any other services. It is an abomination. 
6. Temples/ services are run with temple tax a token contribution from each adult. Building is done by voluntary participation and donations.
7. Only a priest/ levites/ tithers/ less privileged eg widows are allowed to enjoy the tithe.
8. Today all who have accepted salvation are priest of the most high , we have one HIGH PRIEST, THE MESSIAH HIMSELF.
9. Tithe was never collected in the early churches. BUT was introduced by roman Catholic church to fund building of huge cathedrals and to pay fat salaries to priest/ bishops. It was Actually imposed on people backed by government law. It was a polished after a public revolt by the people.. It was also abolished in UK after a massive riot. The historic peasant riot.
10. This tithe system was adopted by many countries in Europe to cater for less priviledge in the society hence benefit payments/ food stamps etc. This is completely absent in many African countries today.
Folks know the truth and it would set you free.
[quote author=petra1 post=63109909][/quote]

ec 03

22. TITHING DID NOT BECOME A LAW IN THE CHURCH UNTIL A.D. 777: The earliest Christian assemblies patterned themselves after the Jewish synagogues which were led by rabbis who, like Paul, refused to gain a profit from preaching and teaching God’s Word. There are many books on Jewish social life which explain this in great detail. 

From Christ’s death until Christianity became a legally recognized religion almost 300 years later, the majority of great church leaders took self-imposed vows of poverty. This is historically documented! They took Jesus’ words to the rich young ruler in Luke 18:22 literally “sell all that you have, give it to the poor, and follow me.” Most church historians agree that these early church leaders for at least the first 200 years worked for a living and were self-supporting. A Christian leader could not tell a Roman census-taker that he was a full-time preacher of an outlaw religion. 

Clement of Rome (c95), Justin Martyr (c150), Irenaeus (c150-200) and Tertullian (c150-220) all opposed tithing as a strictly Jewish tradition. The Didache (c150-200) condemns traveling apostles who stay longer than three days and ask for money. And travelers who decided to remain with them were required to learn a trade. These early opponents of tithing are not quoted by tithe-teachers. 

Cyprian (200-258) tried unsuccessfully to impose tithing in Carthage, North Africa around A. D. 250. At his conversion Cyprian gave away great wealth to the poor and lived under a vow of poverty. His idea of tithing included equal re-distribution to the poor. And –we must remember—his ideas of tithing were not adopted. 

When tithe-teachers quote Ambrose, Chrysostom and Augustine as church fathers they conveniently leave out the first 200 years of church history. Even after Christianity became legal in the fourth century many of the greatest spiritual leaders took vows of deep poverty and preferred to live unmarried lives in monasteries. If these tithe-teachers are quoted, then the church should also be told what kind of lives they usually led. 

While disagreeing with their own theologians, most church historians write that tithing did not become a legally enforced doctrine in the church for over 700 years after the cross. According to the very best sources it took over 500 years before a local church Council of Macon in France, in the year 585, tried unsuccessfully to enforce tithing on its members. It was not until the year 777 that Charlemagne legally allowed the church to collect tithes. That is the history of tithing found in the Encyclopedia Britannica, Encyclopedia Americana and the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia.


[quote author=petra1 post=63109909][/quote]

The Spirit behind tithing and offering Is to help the less previlage especially of the house hold of faith. Not church organisation. Since God's temple is in believers you ought to direct the giving to such individuals so that non is lacking amongst you. This was what happened in early church. It's all about people not clergy or a registered church organisation

petra1:
The kingdom of God runs on principles . These principles cut across dispensations. Principles such and giving of tithes and offerings are unending . The structures may differ but the principles are constant . Just like other principles such as alms for the poor or Honoring your father and mother ,praying to God , fasting etc. It is wrong to say such are done away with the law.

It was not the origin. We are children of Abraham our father of faith who's faith we follow . The law only reminded people of God of existing kingdom principles.

Tithe and offerings are given to God and it is used for work of service in Gods house also welfare and support of the full time workers in Gods house. Some claim that the church is absolved from such . That's not true.

1Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.?

Some may argue that Paul did live on the church income . Well it's only in Corinth he did that . He had to work to earn a living not because he was not entitled to welfare or support but because of their carnality just like some nairaladers. It's his choice but it's not a bad idea . Besides it's not a big deal . 90% of pastors today work as bankers , oil workers ,busunesmen , lecturers etc and they don't collect a dime for support .you can find out from winners ,redeem,Christ embassy etc . The pastors are volunteers Only few pastors are into full time ministry because of their responsibilities . Some have to resign from lucrative jobs . Like a pastor in CEC . Lanre Alabi who was the highest paid black man in chevron . He let the job go because of ministerial responsibilities . Likewise pastors in other denominations. All these propaganda are sponsored by the enemy of the church ,

In the beginning was the word (Jesus ), and the word (jesus)was with God ( yahweh the father) , and the word (jesus) was God (he shared in the kingship and Glory of God as a son, clarifies he is not an angel ).
Jesus said I go to the father because he is greater than me.
Jesus prayed to the father.
Jesus was the raised up from the dead by the father.
Jesus sits at the right hand of the father.
Hope this clarify it all. That is scriptural interpretation not theological extrapolations .

Yes once he has paid the bride price and families have agreed. That is scriptural requirement. White wedding is just western culture not scriptural.
The church has no authority in given hand of woman in marriage it is the parents that God gave this authority to according to scriptures.
White wedding is not scriptural it is just western culture sold to us. The pastor has no say when it comes to marriage it is the couple and parents that have a say.
People need to know the difference between scriptural truth and western theology

Yes once he has paid the bride price and families have agreed. That is scriptural requirement. White wedding is just western culture not scriptural.

Keneking:
No

White wedding is western culture.it is not scriptural. The white wedding dress is not scriptural, the ring is from white pagan culture, There is a difference between scripture and theology sold to you by white man

olasunkanmii:
Both are mutually exclusive. Reason; by the traditional wedding, you have performed the customary rites required for the marriage ( the peoples' mandate), but by crowning it with the white (church) wedding, you are entrusting your union into God's hand. So, no "chucking" until the white wedding is done

You still did not answer yes or no to the questions. You said the glory of God left during Eli temporarily.
So the question again did the glory of God leave wen God showed it to Ezekiel or when the temple got burnt down and destroyed completely did God's glory leave the temple The fact was God's glory departed in time of Eli . That is why a pagan can march into the holiest place and carry the ark . Likeeise when temple was destroyed.
So you are saying David never had the holy spirit.
[quwote author=salvation101 post=63025046] under d law, the Holy Spirit never lived in anyone even the high priest, at best he rested upon them. Its in the new testament that God started dwelling inside men as His temple. The Holy Spirit cannot depart and come back again, go and read the book of Hebrews, it would require Jesus to die again the second time wch is impossible. Why do u think some people are backsliden nd God still uses them? Backsliding is different from apostasy. Holy Spirit doesn't leave a backslider till he becomes an apostate (wch is known as the sin against the Holy Spirit).
God's glory left Israel during d time of Eli, his grandson was named ichabod, but did that mean His glory never came back?
Antiochus desecrated the altar of sacrifice, the elders in israel dat Ezekiel saw in d vision did worse.. Nehemiah rebuilt the second temple even though the elders wept dat it had lesser glory.. in fact in John 2:20, the temple was rebuilt by herod for 46yrs. Infact John recognized that the spirit of prophecy was on caiaphas wen he prophesied Jesus death. They were backsliden but God couldn't av broken the covenant if Jesus hadn't died to establish a new covenant.
If u insist that the presence of God wasn't in the temple, den tell me the significance of the curtain dat was torn at Christ death[/quote]

You did not answer the question I asked at all.
Pls answer those three questions did the glory of Yahweh leave as he revealed to Ezekiel in a revelation and also gave reasons for leaving (abominations) or
When the temple was set on fire and destroyed completely was the glory of Yahweh there or not?
When the statue of Jupiter was erected before the holy altar in temple and pigs being slaughtered on the altar itself was the glory of Yahweh there? Was it still holy or defiled ?
Answer yes or no with reason for each question. So Ezekiel revelation was false?
Yahweh glory was therein temple while began defiled and burnt to ashes by pagan worshipers
Yahweh glory was there while a pagan God was erected and pigs and pagan rituals are carried out on his altar in the holy place.
You are mistakened the temple was just a symbolic entity. When Samson sinned the Spirit left him. After he has been captured, beating , mocked for day and weeks . He repented. GOD forgave him. He prayed and God restores his strength. The Spirit returned .
David has prayed many times for God to restore his holy spirit back to him.
It is only when a man has committed a sin that cannot be forgiven, that is when he is condemned to everlasting damnation
The covenant you are talking about with Isreal has being in existence for hundreds of years before temple was built by solomon. Do you know how many generations you are talking here?? The temple was never part of the covenant my dear and that is a fact!

salvation1f01:
The story of the nation of Israel was full of ups and downs.. Solomons temple was destroyed but Nehemiah built another even though not as glorious as the former, dis was after Ezekiel.
If God left the temple, then He broke the covenant with the house of jacob.
In d case of antiochus epiphanies who desecrated the altar of God, there it was only possible because of Israel backsliding. There were cases were the enemies of God went away with the ark of covenant in the old testament. Its just like in d life of a believer today, if the individual gets cold or starts breaking consecration or even backslides, the antiochus of this world can come nd mess up his physical temple but dat doesn't mean the Holy Spirit left. The Holy Spirit only leaves when such an individual becomes an apostate nd dat is the end, he will never come again. He doesn't just come in nd goes out like a man

I am referring to Zechariah father of John.
Just 3 questions
1. when Ezekiel saw the glory of God leave the temple because of abominations and before it was destroyed completely, did God's glory leave the temple or was it there when it was being set of fire and destroyed.
2. If he actually left the temple dos that mean covenant is broken or not
3. Antiochus IV (175-164 BC), when he entered the Jerusalem temple and errected the statue of Jupiter then slaughtered pigs on the holy altar to Jupiter, with blood of pigs running all over the holy altar inside the temple was the glory of God in that temple? ( abomination of the desolate ) hope you know implication of the animal sacrificed here a pig!!

salvation101:
Zachariah the father of John is different from prophet Zachariah who was d last prophet of the old testament.. Zachariah was the high priest, why would he go and perform the normal annual high priestly duty wen he knew God had left? God present dwelt on the ark wch was in the holies of holies at dat time...

What I'm going to tell you is what I learned in secret briefings in the Vatican when I was a Jesuit priest, under oath and induction.


A Jesuit cardinal named Augustine Bea showed us how desperately the Roman Catholics wanted Jerusalem at the end of the third century. Because of its religious history and its strategic location, the Holy City was considered a priceless treasure.

 

A scheme had to be developed to make Jerusalem a Roman Catholic city. The great untapped source of manpower that could do this job was the children of Ishmael.

 The poor Arabs fell victim to one of the most clever plans ever devised by the Powers of Darkness.

 Early Christians went everywhere with the gospel, setting up small churches, but they met heavy opposition.

Both the Jews and the Roman government persecuted the believers in Christ to stop their spread.


But the Jews rebelled against Rome, and in 70 A.D. Roman armies under General Titus smashed Jerusalem and destroyed the great Jewish temple which was the heart of Jewish worship - in fulfillment of Christ's prophecy in Matthew 24:2.

 On this holy place, where the temple once stood, the Dome of the Rock Mosque stands today as Islam's second most holy place.

Sweeping changes were in the wind. Corruption, apathy, greed, cruelty, perversion, and rebellion were eating at the Roman Empire, and it was ready to collapse. The persecution against Christians was useless, as they continued to lay down their lives for the gospel of Christ.


The only way Satan could stop this thrust was to create a counterfeit "Christian" religion to destroy the work of God.

 The solution was in Rome. Their religion had come from ancient Babylon, and all it needed was a face-lift. This didn't happen overnight, but began in the writings of the "early church fathers".


It was through their writings that a new religion would take shape. The statue of Jupiter in Rome was eventually called St. Peter, and the statue of Venus was changed to the Virgin Mary. The site chosen for its headquarters was on one of the seven hills called "Vaticanus" - the place of diving serpent where the satanic Temple of Janus stood.


The great counterfeit religion was Roman Catholicism, called "Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth" (Revelation 17:5). She was raised up to block the gospel, slaughter the believers in Christ, establish religions, create wars, and make the nations drunk with the wine of her fornication as we will see. 

Three major religions have one thing in common - each has a holy place where they look for guidance. Roman Catholicism looks to the Vatican as the Holy City. The Jews look to the wailing wall in Jerusalem, and the Muslims look to Mecca as their Holy City.

Each group believes that they receive certain types of blessings for the rest of their lives for visiting their holy place.

In the beginning, Arab visitors would bring gifts to the "House of God" and the keepers of the Kaaba were gracious to all who came. Some brought their idols and, not wanting to offend these people, their idols were placed inside the sanctuary.

 It is said that the Jews looked upon the Kaaba as an outlying tabernacle of the Lord, with veneration until it became polluted with idols.


 In a tribal contention over a well (Zamzam) the treasure of the Kaaba and the offerings that pilgrims had given were dumped down the well and it was filled with sand; it disappeared.

 Many years later Adb al-Muttalib was given visions telling him where to find the well and its treasure. He became the hero of Mecca, and he was destined to become the grandfather of Muhammad.


Before this time, Augustine became the bishop of North Africa and was effective in winning Arabs to Roman Catholicism, including whole tribes. It was among these Arab converts to Catholicism that the concept of looking for an Arab prophet developed.


Muhammad's father died from illness, and sons born to great Arab families in places like Mecca were sent into the desert to be suckled and weaned and spend some of their childhood with Bedouin tribes for training and to avoid the plagues in the cities.

 

After his mother and grandfather also died, Muhammad was with his uncle when a Roman Catholic monk learned of his identity and said:

"Take your brother's son back to his country and guard him against the Jews, for by God, if they see him and know of him that which I know, they will construe evil against him. Great things are in store for this brother's son of yours."

The Roman Catholic monk had fanned the flames for future Jewish persecutions at the hands of the followers of Muhammad.

 

The Vatican desperately wanted Jerusalem because of its religious significance, but was blocked by the Jews.


Another problem was the true Christians in North Africa who preached the gospel. Roman Catholicism was growing in power, but would not tolerate opposition. Somehow the Vatican had to create a weapon to eliminate both the Jews and the true Christian believers who refused to accept Roman Catholicism. Looking to North Africa, they saw the multitudes of Arabs as a source of manpower to do their dirty work.


Some Arabs had become Roman Catholic, and could be used in reporting information to leaders in Rome. Others were used in an underground spy network to carry out Rome's master plan to control the great multitudes of Arabs who rejected Catholicism.


When "St. Augustine" appeared on the scene, he knew what was going on. His monasteries served as bases to seek out and destroy Bible manuscripts owned by the true Christians.


The Vatican wanted to create a messiah for the Arabs, someone they could raise up as a great leader, a man with charisma whom they could train, and eventually unite all the non-Catholic Arabs behind him, creating a mighty army that would ultimately capture Jerusalem for the pope.

 

In the Vatican briefing, Cardinal Bea told us this story:

A wealthy Arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named Khadijah. She gave her wealth to the church and retired to a convent, but was given an assignment.


She was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the Vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of Ishmael.

 

Khadijah had a cousin named Waraquah, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic, and the Vatican placed him in a critical role as Muhammad's advisor. He had tremendous influence on Muhammad.

 

Teachers were sent to young Muhammad and he had intensive training. Muhammad studied the works of St. Augustine, which prepared him for his "great calling". The Vatican had Catholic Arabs across North Africa spread the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their God.


While Muhammad was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wicked impostors and should be destroyed. Many Muslims believe this.


Muhammad began receiving "divine revelations" and his wife's Catholic cousin Waraquah helped interpret them. From this came the Koran. In the fifth year of Muhammad's mission, persecution came against his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba.


Muhammad instructed some of them to flee to Abysinnia, where Negus, the Roman Catholic king, accepted them because Muhammad's views on the virgin Mary were so close to Roman Catholic doctrine. These Muslims received protection from Catholic kings because of Muhammad's revelations.


Muhammad later conquered Mecca and the Kaaba was cleared of idols.

 

History proves that before Islam came into existence, the Sabeans in Arabia worshiped the moon-god who was married to the sun-god. They gave birth to three goddesses, who were worshipped throughout the Arab world as "Daughters of Allah". An idol excavated at Hazor in Palestine in the 1950s shows Allah sitting on a throne with the crescent moon on his chest.


Muhammad claimed he had a vision from Allah and was told:

"You are the messenger of Allah."

This began his career as a prophet and he received many messages. By the time Muhammad died, the religion of Islam was exploding. The nomadic Arab tribes were joining forces in the name of Allah and his prophet, Muhammad.


Some of Muhammad's writings were placed in the Koran, others were never published. They are now in the hands of high ranking holy men (Ayatollahs) in the Islamic faith.

When Cardinal Bea shared this information with us in the Vatican, he said:

"These writings are guarded because they contain information that links the Vatican to the creation of Islam."

Both sides have so much information on each other that, if exposed, it could create such a scandal that it would be a disaster for both religions.

 

In their "holy" book, the Koran, Christ is regarded as only a prophet. If the pope was his representative on Earth, then he also must be a prophet of God. This caused the followers of Muhammad to fear and respect the pope as another "holy man".


The pope moved quickly and issued bulls granting the Arab generals permission to invade and conquer the nations of North Africa.

 

The Vatican helped to finance the building of these massive Islamic armies in exchange for three favors:

Eliminate the Jews and Christians (the latter were regarded as true believers, which they called infidels)

Protect the Augustinian monks and Roman Catholics

Conquer Jerusalem for "His Holiness" in the Vatican

As time went by, the power of Islam became tremendous.

 

Jews and true Christians were slaughtered, and Jerusalem fell into their hands. Roman Catholics were never attacked, nor were their shrines, during this time. But when the pope asked for Jerusalem, he was surprised at their denial!

 

The Arab generals had such military success that they could not be intimidated by the pope - nothing could stand in the way of their own plan.


Under Waraquah's direction, Muhammad wrote that Abraham offered Ishmael as a sacrifice. The Bible says that Isaac was the sacrifice, but Muhammad removed Isaac's name and inserted Ishmael's name. As a result of this and Muhammad's vision, the faithful Muslims built a mosque, the Dome of the Rock, in Ishmael's honor, on the site of the Jewish temple that was destroyed in 70 A.D. This made Jerusalem the second most holy place in the Islamic faith.

 

How could they give such a sacred shrine to the pope without causing a revolt?


The pope realized what they had created was out of control when he heard they were calling "His Holiness" an infidel. The Muslim generals were determined to conquer the world for Allah, and now they turned toward Europe.


Islamic ambassadors approached the pope and asked for papal bulls to give them permission to invade European countries. The Vatican was outraged; war was inevitable. Temporal power and control of the world was considered the basic right of the pope.

 

He wouldn't think of sharing it with those whom he considered heathens.

 

 

 

 

The pope raised up his armies and called them "crusades" to hold back the children of Ishmael from grabbing Catholic Europe.

 

The crusades lasted for centuries and Jerusalem slipped out of the pope's hands. Turkey fell, and Spain and Portugal were invaded by Islamic forces. In Portugal, they called a mountain village "Fatima" in honor of Muhammad's daughter, never dreaming it would become world famous.


Years later, when the Muslim armies were poised on the islands of Sardinia and Corsica, to invade Italy, there was a serious problem. The Islamic generals realized they were too far extended. It was time for peace talks. One of the negotiators was Francis of Assisi.

 

As a result, the Muslims were allowed to occupy Turkey in a "Christian" world, and the Catholics were allowed to occupy Lebanon in the Arab world. It was also agreed that the Muslims could build mosques in Catholic countries without interference, as long as Roman Catholicism could flourish in Arab countries.


Cardinal Bea told us in Vatican briefings that both the Muslims and Roman Catholics agreed to block and destroy the efforts of their common enemy: Bible-believing Christian missionaries.

 

Through these concordats, Satan blocked the children of Ishmael from a knowledge of scripture and the truth.


The Islamic community looks on the Bible-believing missionary as a devil who brings poison to the children of Allah. This explains years of ministry in those countries with little results.


The Vatican also engineers a campaign of hatred between the Muslim Arabs and the Jews. Before this, they had co-existed peacefully. A light control was kept on Muslims -  from the Ayatollah, down through the Islamic priests, nuns, and monks.


The next plan was to control Islam. In 1910, Portugal was going Socialistic. Red flags were appearing and the Catholic Church was facing a major problem. Increasing numbers were against the Church.


The Jesuits wanted Russia involved, and the location ofthis vision at Fatima could play a key part in pulling Islam to the Mother Church. In 1917, the Virgin appeared in Fatima. "The Mother of God" was a smashing success, playing to overflow crowds. As a result, the Socialists of Portugal suffered a major defeat.


Roman Catholics worldwide began praying for the conversion of Russia, and the Jesuits invented the novenas to Fatima, which they could perform throughout North Africa, spreading good public relations to the Muslim world.

 

The Arabs thought they were honoring the daughter of Muhammad, which is what the Jesuits wanted them to believe.


As a result of the vision of Fatima, Pope Pius XII ordered his Nazi army to crush Russia and the Orthodox religion, and make Russia Roman Catholic. A few years after he lost World War II, Pope Pius XII startled the world with his phony "dancing Sun" vision to keep Fatima in the news. It was great religious show biz and the world swallowed it.

 

Not surprisingly, Pope Pius was the only one to see this vision.


As a result, a group of followers has grown into a Blue Army worldwide, totaling millions of faithful Roman Catholics ready to die for the Blessed Virgin. But we haven't seen anything yet. The Jesuits have their Virgin Mary scheduled to appear four or five times in China, Russia, and major appearance in the U.S.


What has this got to do with Islam?

 

Note Bishop Sheen's statement:

"Our Lady's appearances at Fatima marked the turning point in the history of the world's 350 million Muslims. After the death of his daughter, Muhammad wrote that she 'is the most holy of all women in Paradise, next to Mary.'

 

He believed that the Virgin Mary chose to be known as Our Lady of Fatima as a sign and a pledge that the Muslims who believe in Christ's virgin birth, will come to believe in his divinity."

Bishop Sheen pointed out that the pilgrim virgin statues of Our Lady of Fatima were enthusiastically received by Muslims in Africa, India, and elsewhere, and that many Muslims are now coming into the Roman Catholic Church.

 

DR. ALBERTO RIVERA

1988

 


References

Double Cross, Chick Publ, pgs 13,14.

The Meaning Of The Glorious Koran, Pickthall, Mentor Books, pgs 220,221.

Muhammad, Martin Lings, pgs 81-84.

What I'm going to tell you is what I learned in secret briefings in the Vatican when I was a Jesuit priest, under oath and induction.


A Jesuit cardinal named Augustine Bea showed us how desperately the Roman Catholics wanted Jerusalem at the end of the third century. Because of its religious history and its strategic location, the Holy City was considered a priceless treasure.

 

A scheme had to be developed to make Jerusalem a Roman Catholic city. The great untapped source of manpower that could do this job was the children of Ishmael.

 

The poor Arabs fell victim to one of the most clever plans ever devised by the Powers of Darkness.

 

 

 

 

Early Christians went everywhere with the gospel, setting up small churches, but they met heavy opposition.

 

Both the Jews and the Roman government persecuted the believers in Christ to stop their spread.


But the Jews rebelled against Rome, and in 70 A.D. Roman armies under General Titus smashed Jerusalem and destroyed the great Jewish temple which was the heart of Jewish worship - in fulfillment of Christ's prophecy in Matthew 24:2.

 

On this holy place, where the temple once stood, the Dome of the Rock Mosque stands today as Islam's second most holy place.


Sweeping changes were in the wind. Corruption, apathy, greed, cruelty, perversion, and rebellion were eating at the Roman Empire, and it was ready to collapse. The persecution against Christians was useless, as they continued to lay down their lives for the gospel of Christ.


The only way Satan could stop this thrust was to create a counterfeit "Christian" religion to destroy the work of God.

 

The solution was in Rome. Their religion had come from ancient Babylon, and all it needed was a face-lift. This didn't happen overnight, but began in the writings of the "early church fathers".


It was through their writings that a new religion would take shape. The statue of Jupiter in Rome was eventually called St. Peter, and the statue of Venus was changed to the Virgin Mary. The site chosen for its headquarters was on one of the seven hills called "Vaticanus" - the place of diving serpent where the satanic Temple of Janus stood.


The great counterfeit religion was Roman Catholicism, called "Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth" (Revelation 17:5). She was raised up to block the gospel, slaughter the believers in Christ, establish religions, create wars, and make the nations drunk with the wine of her fornication as we will see. 

Three major religions have one thing in common - each has a holy place where they look for guidance. Roman Catholicism looks to the Vatican as the Holy City. The Jews look to the wailing wall in Jerusalem, and the Muslims look to Mecca as their Holy City.

 

Each group believes that they receive certain types of blessings for the rest of their lives for visiting their holy place.


In the beginning, Arab visitors would bring gifts to the "House of God" and the keepers of the Kaaba were gracious to all who came. Some brought their idols and, not wanting to offend these people, their idols were placed inside the sanctuary.

 

It is said that the Jews looked upon the Kaaba as an outlying tabernacle of the Lord, with veneration until it became polluted with idols.

 

 

The Kaaba, Mecca

 

 

In a tribal contention over a well (Zamzam) the treasure of the Kaaba and the offerings that pilgrims had given were dumped down the well and it was filled with sand; it disappeared.

 

Many years later Adb al-Muttalib was given visions telling him where to find the well and its treasure. He became the hero of Mecca, and he was destined to become the grandfather of Muhammad.


Before this time, Augustine became the bishop of North Africa and was effective in winning Arabs to Roman Catholicism, including whole tribes. It was among these Arab converts to Catholicism that the concept of looking for an Arab prophet developed.


Muhammad's father died from illness, and sons born to great Arab families in places like Mecca were sent into the desert to be suckled and weaned and spend some of their childhood with Bedouin tribes for training and to avoid the plagues in the cities.

 

After his mother and grandfather also died, Muhammad was with his uncle when a Roman Catholic monk learned of his identity and said:

"Take your brother's son back to his country and guard him against the Jews, for by God, if they see him and know of him that which I know, they will construe evil against him. Great things are in store for this brother's son of yours."

The Roman Catholic monk had fanned the flames for future Jewish persecutions at the hands of the followers of Muhammad.

 

The Vatican desperately wanted Jerusalem because of its religious significance, but was blocked by the Jews.


Another problem was the true Christians in North Africa who preached the gospel. Roman Catholicism was growing in power, but would not tolerate opposition. Somehow the Vatican had to create a weapon to eliminate both the Jews and the true Christian believers who refused to accept Roman Catholicism. Looking to North Africa, they saw the multitudes of Arabs as a source of manpower to do their dirty work.


Some Arabs had become Roman Catholic, and could be used in reporting information to leaders in Rome. Others were used in an underground spy network to carry out Rome's master plan to control the great multitudes of Arabs who rejected Catholicism.


When "St. Augustine" appeared on the scene, he knew what was going on. His monasteries served as bases to seek out and destroy Bible manuscripts owned by the true Christians.


The Vatican wanted to create a messiah for the Arabs, someone they could raise up as a great leader, a man with charisma whom they could train, and eventually unite all the non-Catholic Arabs behind him, creating a mighty army that would ultimately capture Jerusalem for the pope.

 

In the Vatican briefing, Cardinal Bea told us this story:

A wealthy Arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named Khadijah. She gave her wealth to the church and retired to a convent, but was given an assignment.


She was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the Vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of Ishmael.

 

Khadijah had a cousin named Waraquah, who was also a very faithful Roman Catholic, and the Vatican placed him in a critical role as Muhammad's advisor. He had tremendous influence on Muhammad.

 

Teachers were sent to young Muhammad and he had intensive training. Muhammad studied the works of St. Augustine, which prepared him for his "great calling". The Vatican had Catholic Arabs across North Africa spread the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their God.


While Muhammad was being prepared, he was told that his enemies were the Jews and that the only true Christians were Roman Catholic. He was taught that others calling themselves Christians were actually wicked impostors and should be destroyed. Many Muslims believe this.


Muhammad began receiving "divine revelations" and his wife's Catholic cousin Waraquah helped interpret them. From this came the Koran. In the fifth year of Muhammad's mission, persecution came against his followers because they refused to worship the idols in the Kaaba.


Muhammad instructed some of them to flee to Abysinnia, where Negus, the Roman Catholic king, accepted them because Muhammad's views on the virgin Mary were so close to Roman Catholic doctrine. These Muslims received protection from Catholic kings because of Muhammad's revelations.


Muhammad later conquered Mecca and the Kaaba was cleared of idols.

 

History proves that before Islam came into existence, the Sabeans in Arabia worshiped the moon-god who was married to the sun-god. They gave birth to three goddesses, who were worshipped throughout the Arab world as "Daughters of Allah". An idol excavated at Hazor in Palestine in the 1950s shows Allah sitting on a throne with the crescent moon on his chest.


Muhammad claimed he had a vision from Allah and was told:

"You are the messenger of Allah."

This began his career as a prophet and he received many messages. By the time Muhammad died, the religion of Islam was exploding. The nomadic Arab tribes were joining forces in the name of Allah and his prophet, Muhammad.


Some of Muhammad's writings were placed in the Koran, others were never published. They are now in the hands of high ranking holy men (Ayatollahs) in the Islamic faith.

When Cardinal Bea shared this information with us in the Vatican, he said:

"These writings are guarded because they contain information that links the Vatican to the creation of Islam."

Both sides have so much information on each other that, if exposed, it could create such a scandal that it would be a disaster for both religions.

 

In their "holy" book, the Koran, Christ is regarded as only a prophet. If the pope was his representative on Earth, then he also must be a prophet of God. This caused the followers of Muhammad to fear and respect the pope as another "holy man".


The pope moved quickly and issued bulls granting the Arab generals permission to invade and conquer the nations of North Africa.

 

The Vatican helped to finance the building of these massive Islamic armies in exchange for three favors:

Eliminate the Jews and Christians (the latter were regarded as true believers, which they called infidels)

Protect the Augustinian monks and Roman Catholics

Conquer Jerusalem for "His Holiness" in the Vatican

As time went by, the power of Islam became tremendous.

 

Jews and true Christians were slaughtered, and Jerusalem fell into their hands. Roman Catholics were never attacked, nor were their shrines, during this time. But when the pope asked for Jerusalem, he was surprised at their denial!

 

The Arab generals had such military success that they could not be intimidated by the pope - nothing could stand in the way of their own plan.


Under Waraquah's direction, Muhammad wrote that Abraham offered Ishmael as a sacrifice. The Bible says that Isaac was the sacrifice, but Muhammad removed Isaac's name and inserted Ishmael's name. As a result of this and Muhammad's vision, the faithful Muslims built a mosque, the Dome of the Rock, in Ishmael's honor, on the site of the Jewish temple that was destroyed in 70 A.D. This made Jerusalem the second most holy place in the Islamic faith.

 

How could they give such a sacred shrine to the pope without causing a revolt?


The pope realized what they had created was out of control when he heard they were calling "His Holiness" an infidel. The Muslim generals were determined to conquer the world for Allah, and now they turned toward Europe.


Islamic ambassadors approached the pope and asked for papal bulls to give them permission to invade European countries. The Vatican was outraged; war was inevitable. Temporal power and control of the world was considered the basic right of the pope.

 

He wouldn't think of sharing it with those whom he considered heathens.

 

 

 

 

The pope raised up his armies and called them "crusades" to hold back the children of Ishmael from grabbing Catholic Europe.

 

The crusades lasted for centuries and Jerusalem slipped out of the pope's hands. Turkey fell, and Spain and Portugal were invaded by Islamic forces. In Portugal, they called a mountain village "Fatima" in honor of Muhammad's daughter, never dreaming it would become world famous.


Years later, when the Muslim armies were poised on the islands of Sardinia and Corsica, to invade Italy, there was a serious problem. The Islamic generals realized they were too far extended. It was time for peace talks. One of the negotiators was Francis of Assisi.

 

As a result, the Muslims were allowed to occupy Turkey in a "Christian" world, and the Catholics were allowed to occupy Lebanon in the Arab world. It was also agreed that the Muslims could build mosques in Catholic countries without interference, as long as Roman Catholicism could flourish in Arab countries.


Cardinal Bea told us in Vatican briefings that both the Muslims and Roman Catholics agreed to block and destroy the efforts of their common enemy: Bible-believing Christian missionaries.

 

Through these concordats, Satan blocked the children of Ishmael from a knowledge of scripture and the truth.


The Islamic community looks on the Bible-believing missionary as a devil who brings poison to the children of Allah. This explains years of ministry in those countries with little results.


The Vatican also engineers a campaign of hatred between the Muslim Arabs and the Jews. Before this, they had co-existed peacefully. A light control was kept on Muslims -  from the Ayatollah, down through the Islamic priests, nuns, and monks.


The next plan was to control Islam. In 1910, Portugal was going Socialistic. Red flags were appearing and the Catholic Church was facing a major problem. Increasing numbers were against the Church.


The Jesuits wanted Russia involved, and the location ofthis vision at Fatima could play a key part in pulling Islam to the Mother Church. In 1917, the Virgin appeared in Fatima. "The Mother of God" was a smashing success, playing to overflow crowds. As a result, the Socialists of Portugal suffered a major defeat.


Roman Catholics worldwide began praying for the conversion of Russia, and the Jesuits invented the novenas to Fatima, which they could perform throughout North Africa, spreading good public relations to the Muslim world.

 

The Arabs thought they were honoring the daughter of Muhammad, which is what the Jesuits wanted them to believe.


As a result of the vision of Fatima, Pope Pius XII ordered his Nazi army to crush Russia and the Orthodox religion, and make Russia Roman Catholic. A few years after he lost World War II, Pope Pius XII startled the world with his phony "dancing Sun" vision to keep Fatima in the news. It was great religious show biz and the world swallowed it.

 

Not surprisingly, Pope Pius was the only one to see this vision.


As a result, a group of followers has grown into a Blue Army worldwide, totaling millions of faithful Roman Catholics ready to die for the Blessed Virgin. But we haven't seen anything yet. The Jesuits have their Virgin Mary scheduled to appear four or five times in China, Russia, and major appearance in the U.S.


What has this got to do with Islam?

 

Note Bishop Sheen's statement:

"Our Lady's appearances at Fatima marked the turning point in the history of the world's 350 million Muslims. After the death of his daughter, Muhammad wrote that she 'is the most holy of all women in Paradise, next to Mary.'

 

He believed that the Virgin Mary chose to be known as Our Lady of Fatima as a sign and a pledge that the Muslims who believe in Christ's virgin birth, will come to believe in his divinity."

Bishop Sheen pointed out that the pilgrim virgin statues of Our Lady of Fatima were enthusiastically received by Muslims in Africa, India, and elsewhere, and that many Muslims are now coming into the Roman Catholic Church.

 

DR. ALBERTO RIVERA

1988

 


References

Double Cross, Chick Publ, pgs 13,14.

The Meaning Of The Glorious Koran, Pickthall, Mentor Books, pgs 220,221.

Muhammad, Martin Lings, pgs 81-84.

 

NwaAmaikpe:
Is Christianity and Islam really related?


I am working on a thesis which I hope will be syndicated by some global newspapers in which I will highlight the similarities between Christians/Catholics and Muslims.

Let me just name a few here

-Both dress alike;
The priests' cassock and the mallam's jellabia, the reverend sister's veil and the female Muslim's hijab.

-Both pray with a chaplet:

-Both intermittently squat/kneel/bow during prayers.

-Both are very resolved in their beliefs and almost fanatical with it:
It's almost impossible to convince them to drop their doctrine and reconsider yours. They go all lengths to defend their beliefs.

-Both have a lenghty fast at a specific period:

The Catholics have the Lenten period where they fast for 40-46 days and are supposedly holy till after the fast when they return to status quo, this fast culminates into Easter; same as the Muslims who fast for 30days in the month of Ramadan and just like the Catholics observe an abstenance from iniquity and some type of meat, this fast as well culminates into the Eid el Fitri

Both could get very irate and potentially dangerous if you question the tenets of their doctrine.

Kindly join in on this discussion on if the two religions are related.


Please note that this discussion is not intended to infuriate anyone; rather an intellectual discourse that could further strengthen religious tolerance and bring better understanding to the origin of some of what we believe in.



Seun
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Spacetacular

Zechariah the father of John was one of the last standing righteous aaronic priest at that time. God send an angle to him . God did not speak to him directly he sent an angel because his glory was not in that temple. He never believed the message as he most likely never had such an encounter before.
He was later killed in the temple while performing his duties by soldiers sent by herod the edomite king.
The priesthood was taken over by unfaithful people.
The glory of God left temple as shown to Ezekiel before the temple destruction by Babylonians.
Jeremiah prophecies states ark of covenant would never be spoken of again. When God restores it would be a living ark Jesus. God presence would terbanale with them again that was why Jesus was born during feast of terbanacles in the falls sep/ October time.
They failed to recognise the divine time of their visitation. Jerusalem you place is left to you desolate.
When God left the temple he informed Ezekiel and showed Ezekiel the sins of idolatry and why he couldn't stand it anymore. After the exile ark of covenant was no more. The mercy seat is the space on top of ark of covenant.
The viper, evil priest, non aaronic priest whose father is Satan the devil are the ones in charge of holiest of holiest and God's glory abides with them there?. I don't think so.

salvation101:
There is a great difference between the Torah and Talmud. God became silent after the death of d last prophet who was Zachariah who didn't exist in babylonia empire but under the medo-persian.... Any material u read after dat is just words of men..God went silent for hundreds of years didn't mean he left. Jesus christ still had zeal for the temple dat he called it "my fathers house shall be called the house pf prayer but ye made it d den of thieves. I don't care d theology u know but saying God left the temple is false. Its as good as saying God broke the mosaic covenant before the cross cos the tables of stone inside d was d seal of that covenant. The shekina glory dwelt btw the cherubim nd d mercy seat

Abraham bought a cave for burial of his wife and he paid currency used by merchants at that time. Money was already in use my dear even before this time mentioned. It was an established standard all over the world at that time.

The Death of Sarah

1Sarah lived to be a hundred and twenty-seven years old. 2She died at Kiriath Arba (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan, and Abraham went to mourn for Sarah and to weep over her.

3Then Abraham rose from beside his dead wife and spoke to the Hittites.a He said, 4“I am a foreigner and stranger among you. Sell me some property for a burial site here so I can bury my dead.”

5The Hittites replied to Abraham,6“Sir, listen to us. You are a mighty prince among us. Bury your dead in the choicest of our tombs. None of us will refuse you his tomb for burying your dead.”

7Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of the land, the Hittites. 8He said to them, “If you are willing to let me bury my dead, then listen to me and intercede with Ephron son of Zohar on my behalf 9so he will sell me the cave of Machpelah, which belongs to him and is at the end of his field. Ask him to sell it to me for the full price as a burial site among you.”

10Ephron the Hittite was sitting among his people and he replied to Abraham in the hearing of all the Hittites who had come to the gate of his city. 11“No, my lord,” he said. “Listen to me; I giveb you the field, and I givec you the cave that is in it. I gived it to you in the presence of my people. Bury your dead.”

12Again Abraham bowed down before the people of the land 13and he said to Ephron in their hearing, “Listen to me, if you will. I will pay the price of the field. Accept it from me so I can bury my dead there.”

14Ephron answered Abraham,15“Listen to me, my lord; the land is worth four hundred shekelse of silver, but what is that between you and me? Bury your dead.”

16Abraham agreed to Ephron’s terms and weighed out for him the price he had named in the hearing of the Hittites: four hundred shekels of silver, according to the weight current among the merchants
Genesis 25:15-16

hadow:
give me a scriptural reference

You are comparing the time when holiness abound in Isreal to the time just before the birth of jesus. This was not even before the exile to Babylon!! Do you know the history of Isreal during the rain of Greece followed by Romans?? Do you know what happens to the lineage of priest and levies the killings that took place and how the edomites where absorbed into isreal after been conquered? Do you know how they worked their way into the priesthood and how an edomite became the king of the Jews? And appointing high priests and levies as he chooses??

salvation101:
David did too and so did the prophets in the old testament. That God resided in the Holie of Holies doesn't take away him omini presence.. Why couldn' everybody just stay at home and offer sacrifice? Why did dey all av to take it to the priests at the temple? Why did God punish saul for d audacity to offer sacrifice? U know d truth but hiding behind semantics

Just to throw some light on the issue of smoking rev. 21:
8 James Bible
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The Word SORCERERS IN GREEK IS PHARMAKOIS which refers to the use of any chemical substance to achieve an altered state of mind. It involves the abuse of drugs ( natural or artificial chemicals) to alter the mind, feelings, senses, enhance activities or practices like hypnosis, violence, prostitution, voodoo, etc.
This substance have addicting and dependency tendencies and damaging to the body on long run. They enhance demonic influences on the mind.
Except for medical purposes any other abusive use has no root in God. It is sorcery in Greek pharmakois.

Pls don't ever say God was restricted to the holy place. When Jesus spoke to him and prayed with disciples it was not in the temple. You see you are mistakened.

salvation101:
knowledge puffeth up, its the spirit of God dat gives life. God never left the temple till wen Jesus died on the cross,in fact he announced His exit by an earthquake nd tearnig the curtain to holie of holies into two. This simply means He was no longer restricted to the Holies of Holies, where two or three are gather in His name, He is there with them infact Peter and John still went to pray in the temple in Acts chapter 3.The body of believers today are temple of the Holy Spirit but for proper edification believers must come together because we know and prophesy in part. The five fold ministry were set up by Jesus for the purpose of edification of the saints. Wherever the believers agree to hold fellowship is also called church. Aquilla and Priscilla had a church in their house. Paul wrote epistles to individuals and churches(congregations of believers not singular but plural) in different locations such as d church in corinth, d church at ephesus etc...

The glory of God has left the temple with the corruption of priest and levies appointed by ruling edomite king. You dont know scripture and history. Thou the building was still standing. The priest/ levies at that time where practising Babylonian Talmud mixed with Judaism that was why John and Jesus stood up against them . Jesus and John called them viper, evil people, Satan is their father. This were the priest in charge of God's holy place. His glory has let long ago.
When we talk we talk scriptures and historical facts. That earthquake/ veil was just a sign wth spiritual implication.

salvation101:
knowledge puffeth up, its the spirit of God dat gives life. God never left the temple till wen Jesus died on the cross,in fact he announced His exit by an earthquake nd tearnig the curtain to holie of holies into two. This simply means He was no longer restricted to the Holies of Holies, where two or three are gather in His name, He is there with them infact Peter and John still went to pray in the temple in Acts chapter 3.The body of believers today are temple of the Holy Spirit but for proper edification believers must come together because we know and prophesy in part. The five fold ministry were set up by Jesus for the purpose of edification of the saints. Wherever the believers agree to hold fellowship is also called church. Aquilla and Priscilla had a church in their house. Paul wrote epistles to individuals and churches(congregations of believers not singular but plural) in different locations such as d church in corinth, d church at ephesus etc...

Good does not live in building made by man. Your body is the temple of God. There is no presence of God in a fixed location God has left the temple in Jerusalem before Jesus even appeared on earth. John said I did not see any temples as the people are the temple. The Livingstone that made up the church with Jesus being the chief cornerstone.
It appears you don't know scriptures at all.
[qu2ote author=salvation101 post=62966845] the church is both the people and the building.. Church is used both in singular and plural in d bible so stop misleading ppl[/quote]

22. TITHING DID NOT BECOME A LAW IN THE CHURCH UNTIL A.D. 777: The earliest Christian assemblies patterned themselves after the Jewish synagogues which were led by rabbis who, like Paul, refused to gain a profit from preaching and teaching God’s Word. There are many books on Jewish social life which explain this in great detail. 

From Christ’s death until Christianity became a legally recognized religion almost 300 years later, the majority of great church leaders took self-imposed vows of poverty. This is historically documented! They took Jesus’ words to the rich young ruler in Luke 18:22 literally “sell all that you have, give it to the poor, and follow me.” Most church historians agree that these early church leaders for at least the first 200 years worked for a living and were self-supporting. A Christian leader could not tell a Roman census-taker that he was a full-time preacher of an outlaw religion. 

Clement of Rome (c95), Justin Martyr (c150), Irenaeus (c150-200) and Tertullian (c150-220) all opposed tithing as a strictly Jewish tradition. The Didache (c150-200) condemns traveling apostles who stay longer than three days and ask for money. And travelers who decided to remain with them were required to learn a trade. These early opponents of tithing are not quoted by tithe-teachers. 

Cyprian (200-258) tried unsuccessfully to impose tithing in Carthage, North Africa around A. D. 250. At his conversion Cyprian gave away great wealth to the poor and lived under a vow of poverty. His idea of tithing included equal re-distribution to the poor. And –we must remember—his ideas of tithing were not adopted. 

When tithe-teachers quote Ambrose, Chrysostom and Augustine as church fathers they conveniently leave out the first 200 years of church history. Even after Christianity became legal in the fourth century many of the greatest spiritual leaders took vows of deep poverty and preferred to live unmarried lives in monasteries. If these tithe-teachers are quoted, then the church should also be told what kind of lives they usually led. 

While disagreeing with their own theologians, most church historians write that tithing did not become a legally enforced doctrine in the church for over 700 years after the cross. According to the very best sources it took over 500 years before a local church Council of Macon in France, in the year 585, tried unsuccessfully to enforce tithing on its members. It was not until the year 777 that Charlemagne legally allowed the church to collect tithes. That is the history of tithing found in the Encyclopedia Britannica, Encyclopedia Americana and the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia.

When Jesus taught parables as prophecies of the course of the church's history until His return, He provided two views of the one subject: specifically, the outward aspect, shown to the multitude of people; and the inward aspect, as revealed to His disciples. He gave the Parable of the Mustard Seed (Matthew 13:31-32; Mark 4:30-32; Luke 13:18-19) to the mixed multitude to disclose evidence of a specific characteristic of the church compared to the outside world.

The historical development of the church of God would be one of humble beginnings. However, this parable contains more than this important truth. Hidden within it is a warning about the perversion of the church's method of growth and of satanic attacks upon it. This parable is an analogy, and as with all analogies, the symbolism is not exact but similar. Therefore, the symbolism of the Kingdom of God being likened to a mustard seed is not identical, yet it explains a particular aspect of the process that the church goes through in preparing for God's Kingdom.

1. What does the mustard seed represent? Matthew 13:31; Mark 4:31; Luke 13:19.

Comment: The mustard seed stands for the progress of the church from small beginnings. Because of its minuteness, the mustard seed came to symbolize small beginnings, denoting the smallest weight or measure, a tiny particle. The parable focuses on this idea of smallness. The mustard seed is something small that does its part to expand in preparation for the Kingdom of God. The seed represents an instrument by which spiritual growth can be advanced, just as a plant grows and reproduces itself through a seed.

In this parable, the small seed is the church, which appeared as the firstfruits of the Word. Just as in the Parable of the Sower, the one who sows the mustard seed is the Son of Man, Jesus Christ, and the field is the world. Jesus Himself had an insignificant entrance into the world by human standards, and the church He founded is likewise a "little flock" (Luke 12:31-32), small and designed by God not to become a physically powerful organization that would make a spectacle of itself.

In Matthew 7:13-14, Christ says the way that leads to eternal life is difficult and narrow, and few find it. He reiterates in Matthew 20:16 that few are chosen. In Luke 10:2, when sending the seventy out, He says the laborers are few. Paul argues in I Corinthians 1:26-29 that God calls the weak and the base of the world to put to shame the mighty and the noble. Jesus is referring to those few who, upon their calling by God, voluntarily submit to God's dominion, the Kingdom of God.

2. What do the birds of the air represent? Matthew 13:32; Mark 4:32; Luke 13:19.

Comment: Birds are naturally attracted to the taste of the mustard seed. Matthew identifies the birds of the air as "the wicked one" (Matthew 13:4, 19). Mark connects them with "Satan" (Mark 4:4, 15), and Luke links them to "the devil" (Luke 8:5, 12). In Genesis 15:11, fowls swoop down on Abraham's sacrifices, and he has to drive them away (see Deuteronomy 28:26). The end-time Babylon becomes "a habitation of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird" (Revelation 18:2).

In the parable, Jesus predicts the birds of the air would lodge in the branches. These "birds," demons led by "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2), have continually tried to infiltrate the church. Upon the unsuspecting early church, Satan moved quickly to implant his agents in it to teach false doctrine while appearing to be true Christians. Just as God permitted Satan to tempt Job intensely (Job 1:12; 2:6) and to sift Peter as wheat (Luke 22:31), He has allowed antichrists to lodge within His church (I Corinthians 11:18-19).

3. What does the "tree" represent? Same verses.

Comment: The largest of mustard plants, even under ideal conditions, can grow only to a height of about 15 feet. Luke 13:19 describes it as "a large tree," yet the natural mustard plant is not "a large tree" by any stretch of the imagination. All varieties of the mustard family, which are herbs, have thin, pulpy—not woody—stems and branches. It is nothing like a tree.

This mustard plant did something abnormal by growing beyond its design parameters; it became larger than what God designed as normal. What is this large mustard tree in which, apparently, demons are welcome? As the church grew from a tiny seed into a small mustard bush, it was as God designed it, but over time, it mutated into a large tree, something never intended by God.

This plant ceased to be God's church when it perverted its doctrines and objectives, moving beyond God's intended limits. It became a counterfeit of the true church, appropriating the name "Christian" and blending or syncretizing pagan mystery religions with Christianity. Eventually, it called itself the Roman Catholic Church, and later produced Protestant daughter churches whose doctrines are rooted in Catholicism.

What became of the true church? When the mustard plant mutated from its original form, God replanted His true church in another corner of the field, beginning the process anew. It is a consistent characteristic of God's true church to remain as a small herb, spiritually feeding the few who are chosen to become regenerated children of the Kingdom of God.

When Jesus taught parables as prophecies of the course of the church's history until His return, He provided two views of the one subject: specifically, the outward aspect, shown to the multitude of people; and the inward aspect, as revealed to His disciples. He gave the Parable of the Mustard Seed (Matthew 13:31-32; Mark 4:30-32; Luke 13:18-19) to the mixed multitude to disclose evidence of a specific characteristic of the church compared to the outside world.

The historical development of the church of God would be one of humble beginnings. However, this parable contains more than this important truth. Hidden within it is a warning about the perversion of the church's method of growth and of satanic attacks upon it. This parable is an analogy, and as with all analogies, the symbolism is not exact but similar. Therefore, the symbolism of the Kingdom of God being likened to a mustard seed is not identical, yet it explains a particular aspect of the process that the church goes through in preparing for God's Kingdom.

1. What does the mustard seed represent? Matthew 13:31; Mark 4:31; Luke 13:19.

Comment: The mustard seed stands for the progress of the church from small beginnings. Because of its minuteness, the mustard seed came to symbolize small beginnings, denoting the smallest weight or measure, a tiny particle. The parable focuses on this idea of smallness. The mustard seed is something small that does its part to expand in preparation for the Kingdom of God. The seed represents an instrument by which spiritual growth can be advanced, just as a plant grows and reproduces itself through a seed.

In this parable, the small seed is the church, which appeared as the firstfruits of the Word. Just as in the Parable of the Sower, the one who sows the mustard seed is the Son of Man, Jesus Christ, and the field is the world. Jesus Himself had an insignificant entrance into the world by human standards, and the church He founded is likewise a "little flock" (Luke 12:31-32), small and designed by God not to become a physically powerful organization that would make a spectacle of itself.

In Matthew 7:13-14, Christ says the way that leads to eternal life is difficult and narrow, and few find it. He reiterates in Matthew 20:16 that few are chosen. In Luke 10:2, when sending the seventy out, He says the laborers are few. Paul argues in I Corinthians 1:26-29 that God calls the weak and the base of the world to put to shame the mighty and the noble. Jesus is referring to those few who, upon their calling by God, voluntarily submit to God's dominion, the Kingdom of God.

2. What do the birds of the air represent? Matthew 13:32; Mark 4:32; Luke 13:19.

Comment: Birds are naturally attracted to the taste of the mustard seed. Matthew identifies the birds of the air as "the wicked one" (Matthew 13:4, 19). Mark connects them with "Satan" (Mark 4:4, 15), and Luke links them to "the devil" (Luke 8:5, 12). In Genesis 15:11, fowls swoop down on Abraham's sacrifices, and he has to drive them away (see Deuteronomy 28:26). The end-time Babylon becomes "a habitation of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird" (Revelation 18:2).

In the parable, Jesus predicts the birds of the air would lodge in the branches. These "birds," demons led by "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2), have continually tried to infiltrate the church. Upon the unsuspecting early church, Satan moved quickly to implant his agents in it to teach false doctrine while appearing to be true Christians. Just as God permitted Satan to tempt Job intensely (Job 1:12; 2:6) and to sift Peter as wheat (Luke 22:31), He has allowed antichrists to lodge within His church (I Corinthians 11:18-19).

3. What does the "tree" represent? Same verses.

Comment: The largest of mustard plants, even under ideal conditions, can grow only to a height of about 15 feet. Luke 13:19 describes it as "a large tree," yet the natural mustard plant is not "a large tree" by any stretch of the imagination. All varieties of the mustard family, which are herbs, have thin, pulpy—not woody—stems and branches. It is nothing like a tree.

This mustard plant did something abnormal by growing beyond its design parameters; it became larger than what God designed as normal. What is this large mustard tree in which, apparently, demons are welcome? As the church grew from a tiny seed into a small mustard bush, it was as God designed it, but over time, it mutated into a large tree, something never intended by God.

This plant ceased to be God's church when it perverted its doctrines and objectives, moving beyond God's intended limits. It became a counterfeit of the true church, appropriating the name "Christian" and blending or syncretizing pagan mystery religions with Christianity. Eventually, it called itself the Roman Catholic Church, and later produced Protestant daughter churches whose doctrines are rooted in Catholicism.

What became of the true church? When the mustard plant mutated from its original form, God replanted His true church in another corner of the field, beginning the process anew. It is a consistent characteristic of God's true church to remain as a small herb, spiritually feeding the few who are chosen to become regenerated children of the Kingdom of God.

zionmde:
I am not defending any organization.
The person I mentioned said "evil now lies in the church" from ur own definition of the word "church" tell me why that statement is not an insult to the almighty, who is the one that sanctifies and tarbanacles in the church. Most people say rubbish about the church thinking the church is a building or a denomination. Go and read the old testament very well how God esteemed the holiest of holies where his presence dwelt. Imagine what would happen to an Israelite then if he because of the evil of the children of Eli now said, evil dwells in God's temple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFkEh5bEXw

Pls have you not heard that the church is not a building neither is it a registered organisation or movement. A member of the church of Christ has been victimised by a wolf in sheep clothing and you are defending a organisation which is not a church a church is just people that are part of body of Christ not religious organisation.

zionmde:
Be careful what u say
It's good u get to know what God sees the church as
His own abode where he tabernacles. That a certain person or people chooses to be thieves and swindlers doesn't mean the devil has come to occupy God's own abode.


Am not surprised at all. All these were meant to happen. The devil is really putting up a strong fight against the church of God and sometimes he manipulates people who were supposed to be stewards in the house of God just to draw away souls from the kingdom

But the church will keep growing stronger and more influential because no matter whom the devil wants to use to war against the church, we are more than conquerors

22. TITHING DID NOT BECOME A LAW IN THE CHURCH UNTIL A.D. 777: The earliest Christian assemblies patterned themselves after the Jewish synagogues which were led by rabbis who, like Paul, refused to gain a profit from preaching and teaching God’s Word. There are many books on Jewish social life which explain this in great detail. 

From Christ’s death until Christianity became a legally recognized religion almost 300 years later, the majority of great church leaders took self-imposed vows of poverty. This is historically documented! They took Jesus’ words to the rich young ruler in Luke 18:22 literally “sell all that you have, give it to the poor, and follow me.” Most church historians agree that these early church leaders for at least the first 200 years worked for a living and were self-supporting. A Christian leader could not tell a Roman census-taker that he was a full-time preacher of an outlaw religion. 

Clement of Rome (c95), Justin Martyr (c150), Irenaeus (c150-200) and Tertullian (c150-220) all opposed tithing as a strictly Jewish tradition. The Didache (c150-200) condemns traveling apostles who stay longer than three days and ask for money. And travelers who decided to remain with them were required to learn a trade. These early opponents of tithing are not quoted by tithe-teachers. 

Cyprian (200-258) tried unsuccessfully to impose tithing in Carthage, North Africa around A. D. 250. At his conversion Cyprian gave away great wealth to the poor and lived under a vow of poverty. His idea of tithing included equal re-distribution to the poor. And –we must remember—his ideas of tithing were not adopted. 

When tithe-teachers quote Ambrose, Chrysostom and Augustine as church fathers they conveniently leave out the first 200 years of church history. Even after Christianity became legal in the fourth century many of the greatest spiritual leaders took vows of deep poverty and preferred to live unmarried lives in monasteries. If these tithe-teachers are quoted, then the church should also be told what kind of lives they usually led. 

While disagreeing with their own theologians, most church historians write that tithing did not become a legally enforced doctrine in the church for over 700 years after the cross. According to the very best sources it took over 500 years before a local church Council of Macon in France, in the year 585, tried unsuccessfully to enforce tithing on its members. It was not until the year 777 that Charlemagne legally allowed the church to collect tithes. That is the history of tithing found in the Encyclopedia Britannica, Encyclopedia Americana and the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYFkEh5bEXw

Yes Jesus made reference to paying tithe which are agricultural produce not money this was clearly because the old covenant laws and ordinance where in full effect while he was alive. He lived 100% full obedience to the law until his death. He commanded a healed leper to go and make ritual sacrifice according to Leviticus laws at the temple. This rituals involved the use of two clean birds and other ritual ingredients according to the law.
Now would you command a leper to go and make sacrifice with two birds as commanded by Jesus in a church today!! This tithe is an old covenant law and it has long been discarded. It is not money and it can only be used to feed levites, widows, orphans not church buildings or for buying anything that is against the law . It is actually a sin to misappropriation the tithe which is food.
You need to start teaching scriptural truth and not theological extrapolations the teachings of men

The tithe and the Lord's offering mention together refers to the tithe and tithe of the tithe. I have given you where it was defined to Moses by almighty but you don't want to yield to scriptural truth, you prefer theological extrapolations the teachings of men.
The offerings of judah refers to the tithe of the tithe ( the Lord's offering) for that region of land. If you read the whole of Malachi the actual robbers were levties not ordinary people or do you what to dispute that as well?? This are scriptural facts levites were the ones stealing but theology would never teach you that!!!

salvation101:
how easy wasq it for u to believe dis convolution? The book of malachi 1:1 said it was the prophecy of God tru malachi to the nation of Israel not a tribe.. The word asked, will 'a man' (not will a levite?) rob God? The truth is that alll these words u r saying marks unbelief. It wasn't stated there that d offering mal was talking about here was tithe of tithe but u can believe it. In verse 4 of dat same chapter 3, it talked about the offering of judah nd Jerusalem. Was dat also a tithe pf tithe as well?