Ibime:

How can it make us lose the league? We are unbeaten in 2008 and he has only lost away to Arsenal and Man Utd, results which we have since reversed. If anything, Jose made us lose the league. As Bluehorizo pointed out, our record under Grant looks like this:

Chelsea Played 30 Points 73
Man United Played 30 Points 70
Arsenal Played 30 Points 61
Liverpool Played 30 Points 58

Lets not push Grants luck too far shall we . . .

The highlighted portion is gravely flawed and are as a result of your sentiments.

Grant has had his full squad for a long while now. Did Jose ever have a full squad? Cant remember.

When we lost the league last season, not only did we have numerous injuries but we had no substitutes thanks to Roman and Jose's fall out.

Grant has too numerous fringe players to mention.

During JM's era we lost two of our keepers for a couple of weeks, we lost two of our central defenders for a couple of months, we lost our left backs, our center forward, defensive midfield, wingers, midfield etc to mention but a few. ALL these cases had NO substitutes.

JM was able to get some cheap backup players this season (again he could only get these ones because he was disallowed funds).

Now if Drogba is out we have - Pizarro, Anelka (who took Drogba's place during the ACN), Shevshenko
Joe Cole - SWP
Malouda - Kalou
Terry and Carvalho - Ben Haim and Alex
Belleti - Ferreira
etc . . .

Grant has been lucky so far playing simple teams in the FA cup, Carling Cup and even in the Champions League. Only Man Utd has had better luck than we have in the CL.

JM played teams like Barca, Bayern and Liverpool in one competition. The strongest opposition we have had in this one has been Liverpool.

I am not trying to tear Grant down, but compared to JM, he still has mountain of achievements to climb.

^^^As I told you Somze, Jose turned down the chance to take Alex back from PSV. That is what killed us last season, nothing else. He also refused to play Boulahrouz.

I strongly disagree that we have more fringe players. Jose just refused to put confidence in his fringe players. We only have two more - Belleti and Ben-Haim. Sidwell never plays. Alex has just replaced Boulahrouz and Malouda has just replaced Robben. You can argue about Anelka but he only came in for the ANC and we had no ANC last season. Anyway, the increase in the number of injuries this season negates the increase in the no of fringe players.

The main difference I notice between Grant and Jose is that the fringe players have more confidence. I don't like the individualist "untouchable" culture that Jose introduced and it affected the fringe players. Back in Mourinho's time, a weak personality could not survive and our subs always put in poor performances and were blamed for our poor performances - from Kezman to Ferreira to Boulahrouz to Wright-Phillips to Shevchenko, you name them. This season players like Wright-Phillips and Ferreira have come in and plugged in vital gaps in our team when we needed them. Even Sheva scored something like 10-12 goals if I am not mistaken. He is even making goal-line clearances. That is the difference.

I thank Jose for everything he did but he left at the right time. By the time he left, he had lost his composure and it was the end of his cycle. He built a personality cult around himself and I understand why many fans find it hard to let go. However, it was the end of his cycle. I am happy now that Grant gets along with Roman and we don't have all the press speculation around the club anymore.

Ako, as for 95 points, 04/05 was a long time ago. The league is a lot more competitive now. I cannot judge Jose on 2005, I can only judge him on last seasons performance. I think we had reached the end of a cycle with Jose. You made an explicit statement that Grant lost us the league but if we start the league from Grants first game, we will be top. That said, I am still undecided about Grant. Let us see how the Champions league final goes and then I will give you my final verdict on him. I am liking some things about him as I highlighted above - but I am also unsure if he has the motivational abilities and the strength of character to deal with a multi-millionaire dressing room. Let us wait and see.

Ibime,
Bhoularouz was crap, even Ferreira was better than him. That in incontrovertible.

SWP started to regain form during JM NOT after DURING. How confident is he now? OBi and SWP have been relegated to the bench. Sidwell played more under JM.

Ibime saying a manager has reached an end of cycle is very shallow. Even Wenger can win the league next season. Every top manager has had their trophyless seasons. JM has not had that and there is NO evidence that suggest we would have been in a worse position if JM was around.

Please do a print out of our postion at the league table when he left with respect to Man Utd and Arsenal.

Your other points are based on sentimental assumption and I can not argue around that.

somze:

(1.) Bhoularouz was crap, even Ferreira was better than him. That in incontrovertible.

(2.) SWP started to regain form during JM NOT after DURING. How confident is he now? OBi and SWP have been relegated to the bench. Sidwell played more under JM.

(3.) JM has not had that and there is NO evidence that suggest we would have been in a worse position if JM was around.

(4.) Please do a print out of our postion at the league table when he left with respect to Man Utd and Arsenal.

(1.) Boulahrouz was crap based on what? His one slip up against Ronaldinho? Before that, he played quite well. We are talking about Hollands first choice centre back here, not some League 1 player.  He had just won German league when he came to us with a team that conceded the least amount of goals in the German league. Mourinho killed his confidence. Full stop. Whether its because Frank Arnesen signed him, I don't know.

(2.) SWP never played under Mourinho as he played in December and January of this season. I was at the Bridge a lot during this period and SWP was flying.

(3.) There is a lot of evidence. I watched our games against Reading and Birmingham an even though we won, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. We were already conceding a lot of goals from the start of the season. Mourinho had lost his aura. He was also in ill-health with stress and constant migraines. My girlfriend works at The Wellington Hospital where he used to come for treatment.

(4.) Do I need to? We were about 8 points behind the league leaders.

1. Ronaldihno, keane and Baptista (I don't know if I am mixing the dude's name with a wrestler, but I'm referring to the Arsenal's match where he got sent off) to mention but a few.

2. Remember the game with Westham last season?

3. This is the funniest thing I've ever heard. Stress and migraine is part of the job dude! Haba abeg strike this out for lack of relevance.

4. Who were the league leaders? Abeg get the printout and tell me how many points we were behind Man Utd and Arsenal jare.

somze:

1. Ronaldihno, keane and Baptista (I don't know if I am mixing the dude's name with a wrestler, but I'm referring to the Arsenal's match where he got sent off) to mention but a few.

2. Remember the game with Westham last season?

3. This is the funniest thing I've ever heard. Stress and migraine is part of the job dude! Haba abeg strike this out for lack of relevance.

4. Who were the league leaders? Abeg get the printout and tell me how many points we were behind Man Utd and Arsenal jare.

(1.) Forget the Arsenal game - Boulahrouz confidence was already broken by then. Even till now, he has still not recovered. Lemme ask you a question - how many mistakes have Wes Brown and Mikael Silvestre made at Man Utd? Numerous - however, it does not stop them from becoming useful squad players for Man Utd when there is an injury crisis. I don't think SAF will be playing Patrice Evra in central defence ahead of them just because they made mistakes. Instead, he will give them the confidence to feel like a useful part of the team.

Now, lets talk fact - Neither the Ronaldinho mistake nor the Keane mistake were glaring mistakes (as Senderos makes) - he was just outwitted by brilliant pieces of skill. Did Ashley Cole not make an even worse mistake in that very same game against Aaron Lennon? The fact is, Boulahrouz had played about 8 games before that and got good reviews for his performances. I believe Mourinho's handling of the Boulahrouz situation was due to his personal sentiment against Frank Arnesen.

(2.) Just one game? SWP put together a brilliant sequence of about 12 games in December and January. Not only SWP - Ferreira, Kalou and Sheva also played better this season.

(3.) OK - let us just say that his gra-gra attitude with Roman made his position untenable, destabilised the club and also caused him a lot of stress. Have you seen him recently? He has aged about 15 years. Please, I want peace at Chelsea, not gra-gra.

(4.) Am I your personal assistant or your Google search robot? From what I remember, we were 8 points behind Arsenal and about 3 behind Man Utd going into the game at Old Trafford (which Mourinho would have also lost)

1. How well is Bhoularouz doing now?

2. I named just one game, others exist, why dont you name your 12 games in 2 months, then we check his stats on sky or bbc online

3. Who has aged? RA or JM?

4. Two points behind Man Utd solidifies my argument.

somze:

1. How well is Bhoularouz doing now?

2. I named just one game, others exist, why don't you name your 12 games in 2 months, then we check his stats on sky or bbc online

3. Who has aged? RA or JM?

4. Two points behind Man Utd solidifies my argument.

(1.) How well was he doing before he came to Chelsea? Do we judge him after the fact or before it? How well is Kezman doing now? How well will Sheva do when he leaves? All these things have psychological impact. Boulahrouz played the first 6 games for Sevilla after which he got injured and faced months on the sidelines. I haven't heard his story since.

(2.) I am not you personal assistant. However, it was widely reported that SWP was having his best spell in a Chelsea shirt at the time.

(3.) Jose   

(4.) Two points - only because Ronaldo had a three game ban and Man Utd dropped a lot of points at the start of the season. Two points which turned to five in the next game (as it would have under Mourinho) - and five points which we have since clawed back, despite Ronaldo playing every game since then and despite Man Utd having a full squad and our squad being decimated by injuries.

Are Chelsea fans still divided as to whether Avram Grant
has done so well so far?

why is that your business?

Somze, did you know that Boulahrouz marked Didier Drogba and Crespo out of the World Cup as well as Ronaldinho in the first leg of that Champions League? I don't know how anyone can turn around and tell me that Ferreira is a better centre-back than Boulahrouz. I believe that Mourinho was using him to make a point to Abramovic that he should control transfer policy, not Frank Arnesen. Until tomorrow, nobody can tell me that Mourinho's handling of Boulahrouz wasn't biased or influenced by politics.

BTW, we were 3 points behind Man Utd, not 2.

@Somze

You have time for this guy sha.

#Arsenal was leading with 13 points, Liverpool, United and Chelsea were trailing with 11 points

Gunners and Liverpol has a game in hand.

@ Akolawoole  l love your letter to Mr Grant.

Thank God we ve have finally removed the torn in our flesh in UCl. Its 4ny, Benitez tried copying mourinho by using mind game on Drogba and the ref.Its a pity like 9ice said photocopy ko easy that is y it didnt work.I love the way DD celebrated in front of him and silenced him.

Let me say that Grant is someone one ll love to hate.But now we have to give him a chance.The great decider will be the UCL Final.If we can deliver the cup then his ratings will certainly rise to an un-imaginable level.

I ve gone through the last 5 pages and seen that the Debate about who is beta Mourinho(the special one) or Avram Grant (the lucky one) continues.Personally i think it is too early to compare the performances.So i ll make much comments about this.

The final 2me is w@ chelsea needs to focus on and not EPl.Winning the champions league give our prestigious club the respect we deserve and we will also make history.Yes we have made history by reaching the final for the first time.But it is essential we win the cup or our road to the final could be easily 4gotten.Lets remember its the team that will win the trophy that will make headlines afterwards.

Grant should work on our defence they loose concentration easily at crucial moments.luk at h benya,   made rubbish of our defence and pass to torres to score a cheap goal.

anyh i just have this feelin the UCl cup is ours.Up Blues.

Ibime,

Those results have left Chelsea fifth in the table - two points behind leaders Arsenal and with a visit to Manchester United to come on Sunday.

LINK

all the blues in da house i love you all keep keeping the blue colour flying above the blue sky

O ma se o!
Poor Bayern
Seems we'll have to declare a search warrant for their foremost fan

The truth is that i dont know what to say but the truth is that CHELSEA remains the best team in the world. Blueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssss for lyfe. We are going for the double, to all haters pocket your voices.

@ Somze, Arsenal had a game in hand so it was more like 5 points - which became 8 after the Man Utd game.

where's Kitaun(mc omo), loyika, vieira

last season you were all here telling all sorts of stories about "pedigree, history and classroom"; what do u all have to say now ?
y'all are avoiding this end of the forum pretending to be chasing dayokanu about
why don't u come and tell me some more about pedigree !

kitaun et loyika !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bring ya a$$e$ in here ! pedigree my left butt cheek !

I am not sure if this is true

http://odili.net/news/source/2008/may/1/403.html

But we will be waiting for you The Special One.

Make you come to Ibadan o.

Wormy

I am here.

Wetin be d problem

GOONER 89

Akola,
I hope that can be done,

Loyika
Chelsea is at the CL final, is that all you can say?

Nateevs, Ibime
Will Ribery be willing to leave Bayern for Chelsea?

Somze

For someone that has been an advocate for Avram G, that question shouldn't come up.

Truth be told, as much as it hurts that Chelscum might be the first London club to win the CL (and the odds favour a Chelski win), i really have no qualms. There ain't no gunner that i know of that wasn't happy that the Pool got a taste of their own medicine, with Hypia being denied a clear pen which could have turned the game around.

Anyways, Congrats to you guys and good luck against the Scumtwats. Would be wonderful if you could grab the league as well, but those Scummies have the wind behind their sails and they play Curbs at OT (and trust Alan to bend over for Fergie although the game could end up being drawn if the players can be bothered WE SHALL SEE!!).

All in all, anyone that wins anything deserves it, we gunners do not shun success, we actually would love it if our team was involved, but alas you can't change reality. So if Chelscum can achieve the double, fair play to all you Chavs and Gezzers (afterall The Spuds won something and the world didn't go bang, so i think we can all live with Agberos and conductors screaming; THE BLUESSSSSSSSSSSS!! For at least 3 months before the league starts off again )

Frankly, ya'll Chelsea fans in naija seem to annoy the Manc supporters far more than the Arsenal ones (Maybe its because most Chelscum fans are ex Gunners so we tend to see stuff with you guys from a far more humourous perspective ).

LETS SEE WHERE THE PENDULUIM WILL SWING IN THE NEXT 3 WEEKS SHALL WE!!

GOONER 89

akola,

i heard it on bbc yesterday. there seem to be a lot of truth surrounding it

loyika,
fear no gree you read my post
after the semi-finals against liverfool last year, you kitaun, vieira and some bloke named dis guy were ranting all sorts about
pedigree, history and class.
i'd appreciate it if you'd revisit that little discussion again.

meanwhile, if i say the arse has niether class nor pedigree at this point, would i be entirely wrong ?

what game were u watching bros hyypia penalty ? gracious God ! essien had a clean tackle on hyypia and u r here crying denial ?
so much for the support !

Ok Wormy, Hypia didn't deserve a pen, same way Hleb didn't deserve a pen

First things first, don't get it twist bro, CHELSEA HAS NO CLASS!! That fact is not in dispute (this is why i hate all this solidarity bullsh@t ).

Compared to the other 3 of Liverpool, Arsenal and United, WHAT FLIPPING PEDIGREE ARE YOU ON ABOUT!! You forget that as much as you could land a double this season, you could also end up with zilch, so before you book that hotel and the strippers for your trophy celebration, think over that fact.

What Chelsea has done this season is commendable, that cannot be taken away from them, but apart from if you win the UCL, what else will you have done that Arsenal hasn't (at this juncture you will mention Cup Winners right ).

Anyways got to run off right now, will deal with this some more with you on monday, so hold that thought.

GOONER 89

loyika,

stop being a elusive !
when liverpool kicked us out last season u said it was pedigree, history and class showing prevalence over reh reh reh !
now that we've kicked their butt, i'd like to hear what you have to say. to hell with pedigree and all what not
you've already gone trophyless ! the last time u lot picked up a trophy was 2005 ! u r fast becoming the next liverfool - shitty teams

loyika:


What Chelsea has done this season is commendable, that cannot be taken away from them, but apart from if you win the UCL, what else will you have done that Arsenal hasn't (at this juncture you will mention Cup Winners right ).

lol, you already buying excuses
i don't need to tell u anything on that. i'm sure ur conscience is doing u in already

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1121354.ece

Can somebody warn this man to mind his business?

What is immoralty Mr wenger?

Up Blues.

Grant unhappy with Alan Curbishley backing United to win the title.

http://goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=680720

Akolawole:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1121354.ece

Can somebody warn this man to mind his business?

What is immoralty Mr wenger?

Oh shut up Wenger, that's why JM called you a Viewer.

It's always Chelsea this, Chelsea that.

Put your house in order, your £360million debt at the Emirates is none of our bloody business.

Roman can spend HIS money however he wants.

Arsenal owe that much?, GOSH!!!!!!, thats a whole country's budget for a year, i think they shud just pack up, and perharps convert the club to a rugby stadium,
Well, i gat one advice for Wenger, Nexts season, i advice him to get men, and not high school boys. this is the 21st century,and boys dont get along in the roundleather game