The basic question that must be asked remains: WHO really is "the Glory of Israel"?

* Roman Catholicism: Mary - 'Glory of Israel' (from the 'Litany of Loreto')

* Bible: God - 'the Glory of Israel'



Biblical references:

>> 'And also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for He is not a man, that He should repent'
-- (1 Sam. 15:29 - JPS, MKJV, LITV).


>>  cf. Psa. 89:17 - 'For Thou art the glory of their strength. . .'


>> Also[b]Luke 2:32[/b] already considered, clearly declares the Lord Jesus Christ is
specifically called by this name - and Roman Catholic authories concede to the fact:
'A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.'
(please check and see that even the English translation [Douay Rheims] favoured by the RCC
actually uses the same appellation of 'the glory of thy people Israel' for the Lord Jesus).


>> It was common knowledge among God's people Israel that only the LORD God was
indeed the glory of His people; and none else could claim that divine title with Him.
See a few more reference:


* Isaiah 60:19 (ESV)
'. . .but the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory.'


* Zech. 2:5 (HCSB)
'The declaration of the LORD: "I will be a wall of fire around it, and I will be the glory within it.'

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Questions:

When did Mary become "God" that the RCC should ascribe the divine title of
'the Glory of Israel' to her? If Mary is NOT deity, WHY does the RCC
still give God's glory to her by calling her divine titles belonging to God alone?



Reflection: Isaiah 42:8
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."

It is interesting that the prophecy to Israel in Isaiah 60:19 says: "your GOD will be your glory"; and the LORD categorically confirms in Zech. 2:5 that HE "will be the glory in the midst of her".

If Scripture has clearly stated that "your God will be your glory", on what grounds does the Catholic Church ascribe the divine title of the "Glory of Israel" to MARY?  Since when did Mary become deity to be "honoured" with the same divine title that is reserved to God ALONE?

The WORD of God is clear: the prophet said - "YOUR GOD will be your glory" - and the Catholic Church has given that divine title to MARY! The question to my Catholic friends is this: "Has Mary become YOUR GOD?!?"

If Mary is not deity nor the one refered to in Scripture as "YOUR GOD", why then continue to defend the fallacy of ascribing the divine titles of God to her?

Please dear Catholic friends, carefully examine yourselves and come straight and honest on this matter. You cannot be ascribing the divine titles of God to a creature - Mary - and pretend it's merely a "simple" way of 'honouring' her!

That is why I asked you to go back to your RCC archives and read what the Popes and Bishops have said in regards to the "worship" of Mary! I've been slow to post them . . . but we're steadily getting there. No matter the denials, we shall get to see that Roman Catholicism WORSHIPS Mary. When we first made the case that Catholics PRAY TO Mary, our friends assertively denied it - until evidence was given. When we get to the point of MARY-WORSHIP, you will not have anything for cover. It is only a matter of time.

As we investigate these matters, my passionate plea is that our Catholic friends put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as the only Saviour of all men! There are not TWO "Saviours" but only ONE! The Vatican has made Mary the "Savior" of the people of Rome - until today, no Catholic has been able to defend that title of Mary!



Recap:
 

   * Isaiah 60:19  --   '. . .but the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory.'

   * Zechariah 2:5 --  'The declaration of the LORD: "I will be a wall of fire around it, and I will be the glory within it.'

   * 1 Samuel 15:29 -- ''And also the Glory of Israel will not lie nor repent; for He is not a man, that He should repent'

* Isaiah 42:8 -- 'I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.'

Who is the "Glory of Israel" - is it MARY. .  or is it GOD?

Has MARY become "your GOD" (Isaiah 60:9) that she should be called the "Glory of Israel"?!?

The choice is yours!!

Shalom.

I talk am, we no hear. I say make we blank these people and all their winch talk about catholics, we no hear, we still de follow them argue, now dem don make lawyer leave catholics because of them misyan. One by one, dem go de try confuse person till them gather everybody for them side. Only God know who this pilgrim be and hin real motives for these catholic threads. At least i don see example of how she commot person from catholic church. You this chick, you no be better person. Person wey dem born into catholic and almost become priest, you turn am to person wey no one evn believe in any religion again or believe in God. Shey your mind don come down now

How many people remain wey you wan convert commot catholic church? O boy you go try o! because we ready for you and this time, we go form voltron stand against you. No no go find another person commot from catholic church again, Winch!

@lawyer

Abeg bros , no mind that winch pilgrim. I know say she never achieve hin aim with you. Just take time relax and no de read all the rubbish she de post. You be catholic pickin and na just temporary set back. If not for anything, we catholics go try our best drive all these people commot this catholic threads and we go make sure you come back. Just leave me alone with that winch pilgrim and very soon, you go hear tori. E pain me wetin you yan and e remain small water wan commot my eye wen i read your post but because of you we go strong and get more energy to pursue dem commot. This na catholic thread and all others are counterfeit. No shaking bros we go handle this people. If them no one hear correct thing, we go turn am to rough and i know say them no like rough play. So my guy, watch and see

This is the True Face of Christ!


THE SO-CALLED "JESUS CHRIST" IS HIMSELF "THE MORNING STAR" OR LUCIFER!

@horus

to say the least u try but no show for u may Christ forgive us all. Amen.

Finally, october is here and d devotion starts.

remember to include this prayer to St. Joseph after the Rosary.



Prayer of Pope Leo XIII to St. Joseph
To Be Said After the Rosary



To you, O Blessed Joseph, we come in our trials, and having asked the help of your most holy spouse, we confidently ask your patronage also. Through that sacred bond of charity which united you to the Immaculate Virgin Mother of God and through the fatherly love with which you embraced the Child Jesus, we humbly beg you to look graciously upon the beloved inheritance which Jesus Christ purchased by his blood, and to aid us in our necessities with your power and strength.

O most provident guardian of the Holy Family, defend the chosen children of Jesus Christ. Most beloved father, dispel the evil of falsehood and sin. Our most mighty protector, graciously assist us from heaven in our struggle with the powers of darkness. And just as you once saved the Child Jesus from mortal danger, so now defend God's Holy Church from the snares of her enemies and from all adversity. Shield each one of us by your constant protection, so that, supported by your example and your help, we may be able to live a virtuous life, to die a holy death, and to obtain eternal happiness in heaven. Amen.


We prescribe that during the whole month of October, after the recitation of the Rosary a prayer to St. Joseph be added and that this custom should be repeated every year.

my brother lawyer

this is a prayer specially for you:

A PRAYER FOR RENEW

Lord, we are your people in need of your help
heal those who are wounded,
comfort those who are sorrowful
enlighten those who are confused
refresh those who are weary
bring back those who have gone astray
forgive us all our sins
help us to know the Father's love through Jesus the Shepherd
help us lift up that Love and show it all over this land
help us to build Love on Justice and Justice on Love
help us to believe mightily, hope joyfully and love divinely
renew us, renew your Church, renew the face of the earth. Amen.

Holy Mary, Mother of the Church, Pray for Us.

As composed by the Archbishop Felix Alaba Job and used throughout the Archdiocese of Ibadan.

May Our Lady help of Christians be with you especially now, Amen.

by the way horus

this is the true picture of the Sacred heart of Jesus Christ, sorry to disappoint you.

@Orobo,

Lawyer is still a Catholic. However, Orobo, I repeat, no matter whatever thing Pilgrim has posted, please stop calling her witch. It is not Catholic way. Pilgrim, pease just ignore him and I believe he will stop it. Probably, he's not happy reading Lawyer's post.

All the same, Orobo, I don't think it's prpoper to behave such way. I understand we are not teenagers and as such we don't have to behave like them.

Cheers

orobo 50cl:


How many people remain wey you wan convert commot catholic church? O boy you go try o! because we ready for you and this time, we go form voltron stand against you. No no go find another person commot from catholic church again, Winch!

Orobo, yo uno plenty reach. Go bring your photocopies join this discussion. We dey wait

@lawyer

If them no one hear correct thing, we go turn am to rough and i know say them no like rough play. So my guy, watch and see
[quote][/quote]

Thank God you know we dont like rough play but i bin wondr the kain spell or juju you wan use for us to make us run for cover. Again we dey wait.

Feast of the Guardian Angels


Perhaps no aspect of Catholic piety is as comforting to parents as the belief that an angel protects their little ones from dangers real and imagined. Yet guardian angels are not just for children. Their role is to represent individuals before God, to watch over them always, to aid their prayer and to present their souls to God at death.

The concept of an angel assigned to guide and nurture each human being is a development of Catholic doctrine and piety based on Scripture but not directly drawn from it. Jesus' words in Matthew 18:10 best support the belief: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my heavenly Father."

Devotion to the angels began to develop with the birth of the monastic tradition. St. Benedict gave it impetus and Bernard of Clairvaux, the great 12th-century reformer, was such an eloquent spokesman for the guardian angels that angelic devotion assumed its current form in his day.

A feast in honor of the guardian angels was first observed in the 16th century. In 1615, Pope Paul V added it to the Roman calendar.

Quote

"May the angels lead you into paradise;
may the martyrs come to welcome you
and take you to the holy city,
the new and eternal Jerusalem." (Rite for Christian Burial)

@Horus
John 8:44
You are the children of your father, the devil, and you want to follow your father’s desires. From the very beginning he was a murderer and has never been on the side of truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he is only doing what is natural to him, because he is a liar and father of all lies.

@Pilgrim
You said you have gotten upto 70 people who have written 2u (Can you prove it because I don’t think is true) I think is one of your intention to convince us that all what you have been saying here has earned you members.
I pray before the end of this thread or any other thread God will reveal who you really are.

Even the post from Cgift said it all, where lies where formed about our blessed Mother. (That is the picture of our blessed mother that she was crying and she should not be worshipped) Can Cgift tell me whom she appeared to and revealed all that to? (REMEMBER ALL LIARS WILL GO TO HELL).    If she must appear, surely is not to those who dislike her.  If really we are worshipping her, the revelation must have been seen by one of her devotees. 

And I want to ask, why is it that you don’t go to the Muslim thread or are they too tough for you or you are afraid of them that they might declare a Jihad war.

Please I think you should open another thread that will serve your purpose.

Hapi new month people.

itz d month of October devotion
i have to say, coming here often has really helped me
and i am more willing to sucessfully participate in this months devotion

for all catholics who posted here, i think it will be nice if we all collectively pray this month for our collective intentions
and for the Church

therefore, we will be expected to say our rosary daily, visit the Blessed sacrament ( it here: www.savior.org)
and pray for these intensions

it is said the where 2 or 3 are gathered together . . . . . . . . ,

Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary

@viee

it's all right, i couldn't make the devotion in church yesterday, but i was at mass in the morning (Solemnity of Mary, Queen and Patroness of Nigeria) and i also said my rosary complete for all my intentions.

thanks for all the links especially adoration.

@oby1

Today being the feast of the guardian angels let's all pray:

Angel of God, my guardian dear, to whom God's love commits us hear, ever this day, be at our side to light and guide to rule and guard. Amen.


@horus

look at His face, HE REALLY LOVES YOU TOO!

@Pilgrim and Cgift,

Check out yourselfs – you compared Lawyer who is still a Catholic with Saul. You said Saul was converted to Christianity, now Lawyer has been converted too? So all Catholics are not Christians and we need to be converted? Pilgrim, Is that the method? Hum!

Listen, don’t even think Lawyer has left Catholic Church, to think so is to make mockery of everything. As for those you claimed to have written you, that is for them. I know Protestants Ocean to fish has been in Catholic Church and they are much afraid to go where Christ wants His real followers to fish. But Catholic oceans to fish have been Muslims, Hindus, pagans etc. Pilgrim, if your intention is to turn my mind against Catholic doctrines, you better not waste your time and energy.

Right now, there are two girls from Christ Embassy who have been wasting their time coming to my house to preach to me for over a month, applying all strategies they could to get me out of Catholic Church. I know it is easier for me to influence and make them Catholics than they making me a Christ Embassy member. The funny part of it is that each time they come; I change the topic to another thing, and the main issue will be forgotten. There was a day I tried to let them know my position and I was mad at them because of a comment they made against Catholic Church. They now reported to their Pastors who have been wasting his time too coming to my house. Just yesterday, the Pastor and the two ladies came to my house and the Pastor requested that I should pay them a visit to their Church. Though, they have been making in vain such request in the past. They have given me over 10 free books written by their founder (Christ Oyakholomo) but I have not read a page and cannot even know where I kept some of the books. One thing, I told the Pastor whatever thing he wants to discuss, he should not say anything against Catholic Church. Honestly, the day he will say anything against Catholic Church – I will politely work him out.

@Ebos, Carlosein, vies, orobo 50cl and others.

I think is high time we stop all these with these people. If they are not for us, then they are against us.

They are still our friends, but please lets stop replying any of their post. I have stopped reading anything they post, just pretend u did not see anything, because i can see the pictures clear.

Please lets tell others to stop replying any of their post.

All their post is full of hatred and this does not encourage us or any other Catholic faithfuls.

If we can't talk about our faith, i'm sorry i have to sign out from this thread.

What is your comment. (or tell Seun to close every catholic thread if that will help the matter)

@Carlosein and vies

A very big Amen!!! there are so many testimonies about the work of the saints, even the rosary.

One of our brother in the church gave the testimony on how he fought with his Rosary in the dream against powers of darkness, the Rosary suddenly changed to fire and he was using it to drive all the powers off and at the end the battle was won.

So many other testimonies, which book cannot contain.

We also celebrated the feast of Arch-angel Micheal, Raphael, Gabriel on Saturday, but i was not opportuned to post it, Here it is;

Saints of 29/9/07

Michael, Gabriel and Raphael


Angels—messengers from God—appear frequently in Scripture, but only Michael, Gabriel and Raphael are named.

Michael appears in Daniel's vision as "the great prince" who defends Israel against its enemies; in the Book of Revelation, he leads God's armies to final victory over the forces of evil. Devotion to Michael is the oldest angelic devotion, rising in the East in the fourth century. The Church in the West began to observe a feast honoring Michael and the angels in the fifth century.

Gabriel also makes an appearance in Daniel's visions, announcing Michael's role in God's plan. His best-known appearance is an encounter with a young Jewish girl named Mary, who consents to bear the Messiah.

Raphael's activity is confined to the Old Testament story of Tobit. There he appears to guide Tobit's son Tobiah through a series of fantastic adventures which lead to a threefold happy ending: Tobiah's marriage to Sarah, the healing of Tobit's blindness and the restoration of the family fortune.

The memorials of Gabriel (March 24) and Raphael (October 24) were added to the Roman calendar in 1921. The 1970 revision of the calendar joined their feasts to Michael's.

Quote

"The question of how many angels could dance on the point of a pin no longer is absurd in molecular physics, with its discovery of how broad that point actually is, and what part invisible electronic 'messengers' play in the dance of life" (Lewis Mumford).



Glory be to Jesus, Honour to Mary

Glory to Jesus

Honour to Mary    

@ Oby 1

That is exactly what i have been doing, just ignoring them, i don't read their comments or questions. I hope other posters will do so too.

Glory to Jesus

Honour to Mary

@Oby1,

Now, they have made their intention(s) known - I will henceforth ignore them. Pilgrim and Cgift are so fast to the extent of asking Lawyer if he would be ready to receive mails from them. This is Protestants way They can't go where it matters to preach. Let them go and preach to the Talibans, Burundi, Rewanda etc. As you said, we will ignore now - it does not stop them from being our friends. It is a STOP right now. There are other threads we can discuss with them and not Catholic Church. They better not waste their time again because they will not get any response. As for pilgrim, all the Catholics that visited or discussed in all Catholic threads cannot be more than 15 - 20. So, how come over 70 Catholics writing you? Don't make that claims. Another strategy to discourage people. Though, that strategy cannot work when you are dealing with any strong Catholic.

ebos:

@Oby1,

Now, they have made their intention(s) known - I will henceforth ignore them. Pilgrim and Cgift are so fast to the extent of asking Lawyer if he would be ready to receive mails from them. This is Protestants way They can't go where it matters to preach. Let them go and preach to the Talibans, Burundi, Rewanda etc. As you said, we will ignore now - it does not stop them from being our friends. It is a STOP right now. There are other threads we can discuss with them and not Catholic Church. They better not waste their time again because they will not get any response. As for pilgrim, all the Catholics that visited or discussed in all Catholic threads cannot be more than 15 - 20. So, how come over 70 Catholics writing you? Don't make that claims. Another strategy to discourage people. Though, that strategy cannot work when you are dealing with any strong Catholic.

ebos, how you dey now? When you wan marry abi you be priest?

@Ebos and others
I like that. Henceforth no more reply (shey una hearam now).  Even though they like they should abuse the Pope, Bishop, priest, reverend sister please keep deaf ear.  (We all know our aim)  Read from Acts 20: 29-30

Jesus said "I know that after i leave, fierce wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock, the time will come when some men from your own group will tell lies to lead the believers away after them. Watch, then, and remember that with many tears, day and night, i taught every one of you for three years "

Please we have to be very careful, the Lord said we should watch and pray, we should not be ignorant of the devices of the enemy.

Anti-Christ have filled the churchs, watch and you will see what is happening is either a pastor was caught trying to kill its member, or used a member for ritual, na what i hear now is Jehovah sharp sharp.
My brother went to visit a church, our sister said she is attending. Do you know what he saw an evil altar which the members could not see, he ask her if she can see the altar stained with blood, she said no because they have been blind folded and this our sister can speak in tongues.

The latest one i heard from one of their television programme was that every believer must speak in tongues ( and there is a book titled how to speak in tongues)

We have to shine our eyes, strange things are happening.

Please what i am saying is for Catholic faithfuls to stand up for their faith, we have Catholic biblical Instructors Union i think in all parish, where we are taught more on our faith.

Glory to Jesus

Honour to Mary

Oby1, Carlosein, Pamperme,ebos et all

Glory to Jesus
Honour to Mary

your points are well noted
i had already made that deciosion, now you made me committed to it


i also think that we should collectively say the divine mercy 3.00am every day
for our intensions and for the intensions of Church.
i started yersterday and i wld love to have my friends here join me for the next 30days
that will give me the motivation to do it to the end ( make i bribe? . . . . kidding . .  . lol)


Glory to Jesus
Honour to Mary

i will start it tomorrow i have a copy in my office. May God always open our eyes to all the devices of the enemies of the church. (Another thing they lack is that they don't know that the Church also includes your family, ur family is a church)

Glory to Jesus!!!
Honour to our Mother Mary

Oby1:
@Ebos and others
I like that. Henceforth no more reply (shey una hearam now). Even though they like they should abuse the Pope, Bishop, priest, reverend sister please keep deaf ear. (We all know our aim) Read from Acts 20: 29-30

Well, you can turn a deaf ear to that, but i know those who are very objective will still read and put thier thinking caps on. You probably think its only you guys who give rejoinders that are reading. Thats a collosal mistake. More people read from the sidelines and make decisions for Christ. Its not all of them that are outspoken as [b]lawyer [/b]who just gave himself a retreat.

Oby1:
Jesus said "I know that after i leave, fierce wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock, the time will come when some men from your own group will tell lies to lead the believers away after them. Watch, then, and remember that with many tears, day and night, i taught every one of you for three years "

Please we have to be very careful, the Lord said we should watch and pray, we should not be ignorant of the devices of the enemy.

That is excalty what the history of catholicsim depicts- a wolf in sheep's clothing. Dare turn the title around cos its inglorous?

Oby1:
Anti-Christ have filled the churchs, watch and you will see what is happening is either a pastor was caught trying to kill its member, or used a member for ritual, na what i hear now is Jehovah sharp sharp.
My brother went to visit a church, our sister said she is attending. Do you know what he saw an evil altar which the members could not see, he ask her if she can see the altar stained with blood, she said no because they have been blind folded and this our sister can speak in tongues.

Nun oby1, is this catching you by surprise? Christ already said it in Matthew 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. If someone knows the truth and fails to do it, leave him for God himslef to judge.

For those who are outside and have not been exposed to see the truth, it is imperative that they must be brought to the knowledge of it by forums like this. Of Christ's 12 diciples, one was a thief! This is despite his being close to the Annointed One and His Annointing!

Oby1:
The latest one i heard from one of their television programme was that every believer must speak in tongues ( and there is a book titled how to speak in tongues) We have to shine our eyes, strange things are happening.

Though it is being abused, it nevertheless does not obliterate the importance of a wonderful gift like speaking in tongues. I think there are threads that have addressed that earlier. Gifts of the Holy Spirit such as tongues, prophecies,etc are some of the things lacking in the catholic church because you have a very wrong concept of how God works. Not your fault anyway cos you have made your spirit man docile to your leaders. You need to take it back i beg.

Oby1:
Please what i am saying is for Catholic faithfuls to stand up for their faith, we have Catholic biblical Instructors Union i think in all parish, where we are taught more on our faith.

Ensure the basis of that faith is no more on Mary but on Jesus Christ. Let it not be th catholic faith but the Christ's kind of faith which says do not violate my commandments by your traditions Mtt. 15:1-5

All the best.

viee:

Oby1, Carlosein, Pamperme,ebos et all

Glory to Jesus
Honour to Mary

your points are well noted
i had already made that deciosion, now you made me committed to it


i also think that we should collectively say the divine mercy 3.00am every day
for our intensions and for the intensions of Church.
i started yersterday and i would love to have my friends here join me for the next 30days
that will give me the motivation to do it to the end ( make i bribe? . . . . kidding . . . lol)


Glory to Jesus
Honour to Mary

no you no need to bribe.

take care.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be world without end. Amen.

Oby1, that would be nice!
You haven't given us the Saint for the day oooo
we eagerly await

Carlosein. . . lol, i was just kidding.
Hope u are already part of the party?


Glory to Jesus
Honour to Mary

My dear brothers and sisters, how una dey? been away for a while but i've gone through all i missed. NA WA O!!! . Anyway, its October, Rosary Rain for the whole world. Try not to miss a day. even when ure busy, say a Hail Mary, slowly, from the depth of your heart.

By the way, @ lawyer,
"*"*"*Firstly gozizi, you don't know my type and i probably was invested in the catholic faith way beyond you. I was born into a catholic family, did my holy communion at the age of 6, attended a catholic primary and secondary school, did my confirmation at the age 8 and almost enrolled at a catholic seminary in S.S Peter and Paul Ibadan to become a priest until events changed my course of studies.

My 3 aunts are nuns and my uncle is a priest. So i used to have the catholic blood flowing in me 24/7 but as i realised on this thread, it's either you take a stand on something and become extremely dogmatic in it and refuse to see the other side or you open up and analyse certain things that continue to remain a mystery and when questions are being asked in the right direction, half answers and truths keep on cropping up from all angles. I defended the catholic faith to the best of my ability then but realising that, catholicism would continue to bring and pose more questions than answers, isnt the best thing right now."

Like I said, You NEVER START!!! Catholicism is not a trade whose practice flows in generational blood. No matter how many popes your family has produced, catholicism is not like shoemaking or tailoring!! You're either enlightened by the Spirit or ure not. Ure either inspired, or ure not. Ure either FULLY INSPIRED by faith OR URE NOT. You know how many rabbi elders St. Paul's family produced? Did he not kill for Judaism? You catholic pass as im Jewish?  Please tell us wot u really came here to hear! Do u honestly want to analyse? Analyse what? God? Jesus? Mary? the Catholic Church? Did u pray for the Holy Spirit's guidance? No? You'd rather have direct answers from here abi? This thread abi? Very insightful of u!To even attempt to gain insight into the workings of God and his divinity on the pages of human discourse is evidence that your faith lacked substance in the begining!!  Who on this your almighty thread can PROVE to u IN THEIR OWN WORDS that God exists? Who? Do u even realise what FAITH is? Make I help u?

Do u know what it takes to believe in a God u have never seen? A Christ whose only CV is 33 years of poverty, with not a single writing of his as evidence of his existence? With ALL the gist u know about him coming from 12 uneducated disciples - most of them with prison records? Have u ever talked about the wonders of Jesus only to be asked 'WHERE You THERE?' and still continue to profess Jesus? Have u ever witnessed a MIRACLE? No? Have u watched the sun come up? Have u seen a flower budding open in the morning? Have u seen ants build a hill? Have u touched air? Have u witnessed a child's first words? first steps? Or are u waiting for Jesus to physically slap u in the face with salvation?

My dear brother, Christianity is very challenging stuff. Catholicism takes guts. You have got to have the balls to take whats coming to u, and the only firepower is FAITH - UNSHAKEABLE FAITH!!! Faith in what u ask? Read pages 1 - 21 of this thread, u may pick out some of them. God has given u free will. CHOOSE AND MAKE NO APOLOGIES FOR IT!! As u see me so, I am much more HEAVILY invested in the catholic church than u claim to be, but even at that, I question my faith at EVERY opportunity! I am not a catholic because my father said so, but because I am continuously convinced, on a daily basis, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that this stuff is THE WAY JESUS ESTABLISHED PERSONALLY!! If u really want to analyse, do yourself a favour and do it properly, pray for enlightenment then proceed. Dont come here explaining your decision to leave catholicism or christianity or whatever - no be us go ask u on that day ( I hope u still believe that day will come - make e no catch u like thief for night).

You want to fully grasp God? and all that he is? Let me help u! Go to the beach, yes any beach! When the waves recede, go near the water and use your palm to scoop out some sand - make sure the hole is the full depth of your palm o!! then run back and wait for the waves to fill that hole. As soon as u can get the entire ocean into that your hole, then, my dear brother, u will have FULL & PHYSICAL understanding of God's workings. so much so that u can come back to this thread and teach us all to know better!!!

In the mean time, I will live by my catholic FAITH, in full confidence. If I am wrong abeg let my blessed Mother Mary save me. Please, leave me with her!!!

People, DONT FORGET UR OCTOBER DEVOTION!! - say a Hail Mary wherever u are!!

Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary!!!!   yes ooooooooo! If u no like mariolatry, report me to Jesus!!!!

@Oby1
Ok, no more replies, I go try.

Pls, everyone, try this website, I came across it yesterday. it provides easy access to bible citations from the Old and New Testament that explain and defend the teachings of the Catholic Church. Its very extensive and easy to use:

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/

There's no end to learning and its fantastic that everything still points us to the Catholic Church as the true way. Thanks for all your prayers
Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary!!!