Dear Ebos et al,
I suppose if we all should from our various locations call on the blessed virgin Mary to intercede for us at any time, & going by ur belief, she would. Wouldnt that be ascribing the omnipresent attribute of GOD to her (since she can be everywhere at the same time to answer the faithfuls' request) - therefore making her equal to God?
Isnt it only GOD that has and manifests that attribute?

These Protestants have problem. What the hell Catholic has done? Is this normal? I confidently believe that Satan is very much at work. These people might not know what they are doing. I’m sure. But they can't post any thread against their churches for people to discuss.

ebos i agree with you.
We should all (Catholics and other faithfuls) remember that in Matt 24:11 says "And many false prophets will arise and lead many people astray, do not be among those who will be lead astray".

Lets be wise for the days are evil

@Bigfred (So where did God instruct the catholics to make His image,Jesus image and mary's image. In all the examples you gave,God gave the instruction for a purpose at that moment.Oby1 iam waiting; if you can show me where God told you to make his image,for bowing as a mark of remembrance or whatever, then i will be convinced. God is a spirit,How can you make the image of a spirit you can't see?.God made you in HIS OWN IMAGE,(thank God you know that)why must you make any thing and say it is the image of God when you already know that you are his own image. If you are looking for an image that looks like God, then look at yourself, YOU ARE HIS GOD'S IMAGE. YOU ARE GOD'S IMAGE. YOU ARE GOD'S IMAGE. I hope it has entered your mental hurieism).

You see what i mean u pple argue blindly. You want 2 see specifically in d Bible where God instruct catholics 2 make his image. You would hv waited until God mention ur name specifically in the Bible 2 tell u to serve him before u do.

God permitted us to keep images in the church, office and in our homes, look at 1 kings 9:1-4; That after king Solomon had built d temple wit so many Images therein, God was not displeased but instead promised dat his presence will be dir 4ever & dat any prayer made dir will be answered.

Again, we should know dat d image of bronze serpent dat Moses made was kept in d temple 4 so many years. If God forbids keeping of Images in d temple, he would hv ordered Moses to destroy it after it had served it purpose, but it was preserved & God was not annoyed. It was after so many centuries during d reign of King Hezekiah dat it destroyed b'cos d Israelites in those days heard of d miraculous healing of their forefathers obtained 4rm God thru it and they began 2 worship & even gave it a name (Nehushitan) which means God their healer 2 kgs 18:3-4.

This means dat keeping of images in Churches, offices or at home as a memorial is not against God & therefore not 4bidden, but rather serving & worship them as god is sin.

@Bigfred: that you should understand that Mary is NOT and can NEVER,EVER be the mother of God

I need proof

Hello Pilgrim, Yes i join u with all the saints & angels in heaven and my mother Mary in singing Glory, honour, power and majesty to our Lord and saviour.

@oby1
Then why not make the image of snakes and bow to it, why the image (i don't know where you from) of what you call "Jesus",Mary etc.?

And what other proof do you need, than the fact that:
GOD CREATED VIRGIN MARY,
GOD SELECTED VIRGIN MARY among other virgins
JESUS CHRIST (SON OF GOD) was there when virgin Mary was created
VIRGIN MARY IS NOT, WILL NOT, MUST NOT, AND CAN NEVER,EVER BE THE mother of GOD
I hope it is noted!

Dear Readers, just check what most Protestant friends have constantly said about Catholic.

Compare and Contrast What the Protestants think about Catholic And What they think about their Churches (Pastors)

1. The Beasts (666) are the Catholic Popes. (But for Protestants- Touch not my anointing and do my Pastors no harm. This statement is for them and not Catholic Priests (wondering the yeye Pastors)

2. The Priests are cult members. (But for Protestants - Their Pastors are God anointed (even though most of which are self-anointed (backyard anointing) that cannot trace it to the Apostles)

3. Mary is a demon therefore Jesus Mother deserves no honour. (But for Protestants - Mummy they call their Pastors’ wives and hold them high

4. It is a sin to hang Jesus Christ pictures in the House of God (But for Protestants - Their Pastors pictures are suitable to hang in the House of God and no wahala

5. Catholics worship idols. (But for Protestants - They worship the living God (even so many Pastors have been exposed as having occultic power)

6. Catholic should repent. (But for Protestants - All Protestants are born again Christians). Me seeing the so-called self-styled born again them, and would those whose forefathers were worshipping Agbara (Idols) 100 years ago convert a church that started missionary work and introduced Christianity to them?

7. Catholic can neither perform miracles nor speak in tongues (But for Protestants - We speak tongues and perform miracles even the lame can work in our church (but I have not seen someone interpret it for people to understand and no blind man has received his sight in any place a crusade is organized except strangers you cannot identify where they come from– always back their fake miracle with “Do they have faith”)

8. How could Catholic ask Mary and the Holy ones to Pray for them (But for Protestants – their Pastors can pray and move mountain for them.

But this religion problem is common in Nigeria. Is it because of greed, poverty or unemployment?

ebos, see the metamorphosis of the image you catholics bow down to:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0040/0040_01.asp

Let me have your view after this. I am particularly interested in why you worship the image by bowing down to it. It is very explicit in

Exodus 20:4

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 [url=http://Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them]Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them[/url], nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.

You are obviously provoking God. To try to justify why you bow down wil be tantamount to trying to look for someone to drown with you. When you say we have pitures in our houses, what do you mean? Those pictures are useless as the yhave no power in them until you begin to treat as as such. Christains dont go b4 the pictures to start making rituals or bowing down. It is definately out of place.


You transfer the honour of God to an image (obviously not Mary). Are you guys afraid of approaching the throne of grace directly, Mary is no mediatrix!

You have contravened on many fronts:

1)Thou shall not make any image - You have made images.
2)Thou shall not bow - You have bowed (worshipped) and are still bowing (worshipping the image (not Mary)
3)Jesus is not an angry being, he invites you wit hlove. He is not an angry being wanting to chew you. Jesus Christ does not need Mary to appease him since he is not raging. You guys are missing out.

Hi again Oby1,

Oby1:

Hello Pilgrim, Yes i join u with all the saints & angels in heaven and my mother Mary in singing Glory, honour, power and majesty to our Lord and saviour.

Great! I haven't stopped singing O. . so I will present my song again. . .

_{Angels are singing. . You are worthy O LORD, You are worthy O LORD!
[img]http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~cs644/Godfried/2005/Fall/burgoyne/sonWest.gif[/img]
Angels are singing. . You are worthy O LORD, You are worthy O LORD!}

I want to tell you protestant that all your argument are baseless. Blind argument. Accept the truth. If Mary is not the mother of God then who is; Your pastors wives?

May God have mercy upon you all (protestant). This time is not Catholic walking in the dark, but you. Just Imagine all the lies you coined up, just to make sure you buttress your point. Forging what Mary did not say. All those things you people quoted on those pictures that Mary said how come. Where is it in the Bible (as you may say) or was it from a vision?

Your popular quotes Exodus 20:3-5 Making of graven image and not bowing down to them.
The same Exodus 25:17-20 quote “ Then you shall make a mercy seat of pure Gold two cubits and a half ……….verse 18 says “And you shall make two cherubim of gold of hammered work shall you make them on the two ends of the mercy seat”

In verse 10 of the same chapter God told Moses to make a covenant box with specific dimensions.
We should realize that it is after the instructions given in Exodus 20:3-5 that God gave Moses this command. We all know what is Cherub, that a Cherubim in another word means Angel which of course is a likeness in heaven.

If God condemned making of or using images as you protestant say, would he have ordered Moses to do what he hates? The answer is capital No!

God ordered Moses to make these images as points of contact between him the Almighty God and his people of Israel.

As Omniscient God, who knows the future, He knew that some people due to their ignorance, hatred, envy or selfish interest may in time to come misinterpret his word.

In Exodus 20:1-5 He then quickly commanded Moses to make images 4 use in so many places in the scriptures to let the pple understand what he said or meant so dat his children will not be misled by heretics (teachers).

You people are really confused; you know why I said that. A gospel singer (a protestant) whom I bought her VCD on it they build a mercy seat with the cherubim and they all ran and lay down before it.
Are you people not confused?

Mary as Mediatrix[color=#990000][/color]
Mary is invoked in the Church under the title Mediatrix of all grace. All the graces which flow from the redemption of Jesus Christ are granted to the human family through the motherly intercession of Mary. Mary mediated Jesus Christ, the Author of all graces, to the world when she agreed to be the human mother of God made man (cf. Lk 1:38). And from the cross at Calvary (Jn 19:26) and as the final gift to humanity, Jesus gives Mary as a spiritual mother to us all: "Son, behold your mother" (cf. Jn 19:26).

@Cgift
May God have mercy upon you all (protestant). This time is not Catholic walking in the dark, but you. Just Imagine all the lies you coined up, just to make sure you buttress your point. Forging what Mary did not say. All those things you people quoted on those pictures that Mary said how come. Where is it in the Bible (as you may say) or was it from a vision?

Your popular quotes Exodus 20:3-5 Making of graven image and not bowing down to them.
The same Exodus 25:17-20 quote “ Then you shall make a mercy seat of pure Gold two cubits and a half ……….verse 18 says “And you shall make two cherubim of gold of hammered work shall you make them on the two ends of the mercy seat”

In verse 10 of the same chapter God told Moses to make a covenant box with specific dimensions.
We should realize that it is after the instructions given in Exodus 20:3-5 that God gave Moses this command. We all know what is Cherub, that a Cherubim in another word means Angel which of course is a likeness in heaven.

If God condemned making of or using images as you protestant say, would he have ordered Moses to do what he hates? The answer is capital No!

God ordered Moses to make these images as points of contact between him the Almighty God and his people of Israel.

As Omniscient God, who knows the future, He knew that some people due to their ignorance, hatred, envy or selfish interest may in time to come misinterpret his word.

In Exodus 20:1-5 He then quickly commanded Moses to make images 4 use in so many places in the scriptures to let the people understand what he said or meant so that his children will not be misled by heretics (teachers).

You people are really confused; you know why I said that. A gospel singer (a protestant) whom I bought her VCD on it they build a mercy seat with the cherubim and they all ran and lay down before it.Are you people not confused?

Mary as Mediatrix
Mary is invoked in the Church under the title Mediatrix of all grace. All the graces which flow from the redemption of Jesus Christ are granted to the human family through the motherly intercession of Mary. Mary mediated Jesus Christ, the Author of all graces, to the world when she agreed to be the human mother of God made man (cf. Lk 1:38). And from the cross at Calvary (Jn 19:26) and as the final gift to humanity, Jesus gives Mary as a spiritual mother to us all: "Son, behold your mother" (cf. Jn 19:26).

What glory to Mary? all the glory belongs to God !!!!!!!! He will not share His glory with no one, Not even with a helpless girl called Mary from Nazareth.

@Oby1

You are really confused with Catholicisms!!!!!! If God ask Moses to make the Ark of covenant in the old testament representing the present of God, Did He (God) also ask the roman catholic to make images and bow down to them?

The so-called living (Protestants) churches should forget about Europe, America and some African Countries where there are safe haven for Christianity - Catholic Church has already spearheaded the way in all these places. They are only interested in the places they will make easy money, afraid of persecution and death. I think they should try Rwanda, Burundi, Somalia, Palestine, Afghanistan. They should go there and tell the Talibans what they are doing is not in the bible. Even in most parts of Lebanon – let them come and preach Christ in all these places and make a noise with their loudspeakers, if they are lucky enough, a kind and brotherly warning of 24 lashes will be given to them as penalty for public disturbance. But if they are not lucky enough – their heads will be blown into pieces. We have Catholic Church(s) in all these places mentioned and they facing the challenges as true Christians. The Protestants can only come in and make a hell of noise after Catholic has watered the ground. It is not enough for redeem, and co to open churches in almost every street and make noise about it. Christ knows His true Church and those faking themselves – they are only interested in extorting money from their easy-deceived followers – claiming to possess the truth. No single Protestant church in Palestine, Afghanistan etc. Let them go and be fishers of men there and stop using Catholic Church as their ocean to catch fish. Catholic Priests, Missionaries etc are killed often time and we keep on sending more missionaries. Christianity means carry your cross and follow Christ. No Cross, No Christianity. The early Apostles carried their crosses, going to all those risky places. But, the Protestant Churches are only in Nigeria, South Africa, Ghana, Australia, America, Europe etc claiming to be doing the work of God.

Please, my fellow Catholics, never you listen to them, and DON’T REPLY again any post(s) that insult Catholic Church. But anyone who is interested to know our faith and channel it in a polite way should be given attention.

Personally, I will NO LONGER respond to any post that insults Catholic Church except those that politely want to know our doctrine(s). I can’t imagine myself responding to all these insults again.

I will post this to all threads that deal with Catholic Church – in this way, my fellow Catholics will learn how to IGNORE those Satan has caged.

All these Protestants should read what real Christians (Catholics) face everyday.  Not just making noise, enjoying Christianity after so many Catholics have died trying to establish Christianity in NO-Go-Areas.  We want them to join Catholics there.  Living Churches - na mouth.

Afghan converts to Christianity lead dangerous lives and must keep their faith secret to avoid persecution by police, Islamists or even their own neighbors. Members of this secret society have to constantly keep looking over their shoulders.

An Islamist demonstration in Afghanistan:  Christian have no voice here

Kabar converted to Christianity 20 years ago, when such a thing was not as taboo as it is today. "There were a lot of Catholic Churches, both in Kabul and in the country," he says. "Back then the two religions coexisted here almost peacefully." But that all changed when the Taliban came to power in the mid-1990s. Taliban Supreme Leader Mullah Omar ordered his men to raze churches to the ground, to lynch Afghan Christians and to kill or drive out foreigners who followed Jesus Christ.
Many of Kabar's friends lost their lives during this period. "They tortured prisoners until they got them to tell them the names of other Christians.   Most Missionaries who are mainly Catholics are killed almost every month, but this has not discouraged their efforts in any way.  Then the Taliban would kill them and go in search of new victims." Why he himself survived, he doesn't know. He was taken prisoner twice and interrogated for hours at a time, but his persecutors could find no proof. "I knew the suras and the prayers from the Koran by heart. So I pretended to be a good Muslim," he said, with something like pride in his voice.
Anything that could help  him as a Christian has been put out of sight, out of fear. He is afraid that what happened to Abdul Rahman, another convert to Christianity, might happen to him.

Persecution under the Taliban

It's difficult arranging meetings with people like Kabar. Time and again he postponed the appointment, then he asked that the location be changed. Finally the meeting takes place in his office. Brochures are lying about and a computer hums in the background, but nothing would indicate the subject of the conversation. There are no crucifixes on the wall, no Bibles on the shelves.
The case of Rahman serves as proof to Afghan Christians that they live in extreme danger, simply because of their beliefs. Despite the fact that international pressure prevented Rahman from being sentenced and perhaps executed by Afghanistan's justice system, Rahman's story illustrates the extreme stress that those who turn away from Islam experience every day. "We must recognize that freedom of religion, as promised by the Afghan constitution, does not exist," says Kabar, sadly. "But maybe it's good that the international community is now aware of that."

But the disappearance of the Taliban has not made much of a difference for people like Kabar. Converts continue to be hunted down, thrown into prison or even killed by their neighbors. The West was largely unaware of the situation, and it was only by coincidence that Rahman's case captured international attention. Afghanistan's 2004 constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion, is of little use to Christians. "Many in power in the judicial branch are imams or clerics who have little interest in the constitution," says Kabar.
Hide and seek

Kabar is forced to renounce his core identity every day. There is an Islamic name on his business card, although privately he carries the name of one of the apostles. Only his family and his closest friends know his secret. Sometimes, he says, he has to act as if he is praying to Allah. "If business associates come to my house and suddenly want to pray, I have to go along," he says, adding that he only hopes his God understands.

No one knows how many Afghan converts there really are. Because there are no churches, there are also no records. Everything is carried out in secret; only Christians know other Christians. Kabar says he knows a couple of hundred in Kabul and in many other Afghan cities, estimating that there are probably in total between 1,000 and 2,000 people of the Christian faith in Afghanistan, against a Muslim majority of nearly 20 million. Christian Web sites put that number at 10,000, a figure which seems exaggerated.
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Even Christian foreigners in Afghanistan feel the oppression brought down by the larger Islamic society. While Christians in Kabul, who mostly come from the Philippines, can hold masses in Kabul, they have to do so in secret. The head of a small foreign congregation, an ophthalmologist from the United States, declined to talk about the issue last week. Christian groups are often suspected of being missionaries; therefore it's better to keep a low profile. His own church is completely unrecognizable as such, apart from a (relief of a) fish on the outer wall.

The persecution and the constant danger have turned the community of Afghan converts into a closely knit underground organization. Ironically, the oppression has strengthened the faith of many.
Nothing can happen in the open, and Kabar and his fellow believers hold their worship services on different days of the week. "It would be too dangerous to do it on Sunday, because it would be easy for them to observe us." Converts are contacted just before a service is to take place, often by innocent-sounding mobile phone text messages. "We're having tea at 11 o'clock," is one that Kabar reads.

The locations of services change constantly as well, and they are always held in private homes, where everything has to be prepared well in advance. The household staff must be away; neighbors mustn't notice anything; and everyone has to have the 100 percent trust of everyone else. It is too dangerous to even have a Bible at most services, says Kabar, who knows his prayers by heart. Police have come and searched his house three times already, but failed to find anything incriminating. "They know I'm a Christian," he says. "But I won't give them any reason to put me on trial."
Even though Afghanistan has dismissed its case against Abdul Rahman, this is a cold comfort for Kabar. He and his friends fear that anger among Islamists over Rahman's release could spur them to take matters into their hands and act even more brutally toward converts. "Abdul Rahman's release is a good thing," he says. "But the international community needs to keep its eyes open."

According to Kabar, the worst thing would be if the resolution of the case leaves the impression that everything is now OK for converts living in Afghanistan. If that happens, he says, the case would have done more harm than good. "We are going to stand by our faith," he adds on parting. "Any kind of support would help us a lot."

Even a sango worshipper dis for his belief. That does not make sango-worshipping right! You can be persecuted for the wrong beliefs. That is what Apostle Peter cautions against. We've seen believers in other religions suffer for the faith which you will not even approve. That again does not make their faith right before God. The sufferings from the trials does not right anything with God.

Oby1:

@bigfred (catholics should stop bowing to pictures,images i don't know where they got from
that catholics should pray for themselves and leave mary alone, Jesus to take their prayers to God.)

Images help us to remember some past events and also help to know some great men and women of God and the society. Some instances in the Holy scripture where God the father and our Lord Jesus Christ manifested their power by the use of images: In Gen1:26-27 God himself introduced the making of images when he made man in his own Image and likeness. Gen6:13-22, God instructed Noah to make the Ark the image of copper which restored life on earth. Gen.28:18-22, Jacob used the image of stone to demonstrate his worship and dedication to God. Exodus 13:21-22, God led and protected his people Israel from their enemies through d image of pillar of fire by night and pillar of cloud by day. In Num.15:37-41, God commanded d Israelites to make the image of Tassels which will remind them of all His commandments. In Chro 13:13-14, God blessed Obed and Edom 4 receiving d image of the Ark of d old covenant into their house (example is the enthronement u see in Catholic homes). Joshua 4:1-7, Joshua & his people kept some stone images as requested by God, to remind them and their descendants how God stopped the river Jordan from flowing when d Lord's covenant box was taken across it. So many others.

Bigfred understand that not all bowing is worship as obtains in some countries & tradition. In Daniel 8:17 when d Angel Gabriel visited Daniel he fell to d ground, was that an act of worship? Even our accusers kneel before their bible or their general overseers pictures while praying. Instead of printing Christ's picture on their clothes they print those of their general overseers who is not even sure of going 2 heaven, and they are not accused of worshipping images.

Wisdom 16:5-11 gives more answer "who turned towards it was saved not by what he saw but by thee O! Lord d Saviour of d world". When we bow to an image we see and reason beyond d image just like d Israelites who were bitten by d venomous serpent were saved by looking beyond d bronze serpent that Mosed made.

Hmn, I read every post on this topic, but i decided to reply to this one. There's one thing i'd like to point out to you, all those scriptures you quoted were and are all in the Old Testament. That was then, but that's not to say that the Old Testament is still not relevant now, but you should know that Jesus came because of the New Testament. Infact, He is the New Testament. In the Old Testament, God spoke through the Priests and High Priests (which in my opinion, the Catholic Faith is still practicing) but when Jesus came, he said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, (with emphasis on), no man cometh unto the father except through me".

But when Catholics pray, they pray through Mary. I've heard so many Catholics pray and i've heard how they pray, "Mary, mother of God, pray for us". Does that mean that Catholics can't pray for themselves? If you believe that God is three persons in one, and you also believe that God has no mother then surely you must believe that Jesus Christ has no mother in the spiritual sense. Which goes on to show that "God is a spirit and those who must worship Him, must worship Him in spirit and in truth" and [b]not [/b]through His supposed mother's image.

When Jesus Christ came to this earth, he would have come in all His glory but He chose not to. Not because he couldn't but becuase He wanted to come to this earth in a lowly way. "Glory to Jesus, Honour to Mary", Why would you give honour to Mary? Why didn't Jesus Christ give honour to Mary while He was on earth the way Catholics are doing? If you say because He was still on earth, why didn't Peter, James, John, Paul and the other disciples give honour to Mary?

Now the post say, in part "All The Real Catholics Please Stand Up!". Who's the "Real Catholic"? The Roman Catholics or just the Catholics? From what i heard, the Catholic Faith is a subversion (pemit me to use that word) of the Roman Catholic Faith. From what i've said, i believe that you would realize that there's no where in the Bible wherein we were asked to bow before the images of either Jesus Christ and/or His mother. I hope all "Real Catholics" won't crusify me with one of their crusifix.

P.S: What were we even discussing or arguing about? "The Real Catholics" or "The Real Christians"? That's for everyone who posted in here, but especially to Oby1.

Hi ebos,

ebos:

Christ knows His true Church and those faking themselves – they are only interested in extorting money from their easy-deceived followers – claiming to possess the truth. No single Protestant church in Palestine, Afghanistan etc. Let them go and be fishers of men there and stop using Catholic Church as their ocean to catch fish. Catholic Priests, Missionaries etc are killed often time and we keep on sending more missionaries.

It were better to make sure of your assertions before you post them. Have you ascertained that there is no single Protestant church in the places you mentioned?

ebos:

Christianity means carry your cross and follow Christ. No Cross, No Christianity. The early Apostles carried their crosses, going to all those risky places. But, the Protestant Churches are only in Nigeria, South Africa, Ghana, Australia, America, Europe etc claiming to be doing the work of God.

[list]
The early apostles did NOT "pray TO Mary".

The early apostles did NOT regard Mary as co-redemptrix ("the Fifth Marian Dogma".

The early apostles did NOT bow down to statues and images of anybody.

The early apostles did NOT pray to any statue to intercede for them.

The early apostles did NOT call Mary "Mother of GOD" (which led to the "schism" of 431 AD)[/list]

There are so many things that the Catholic Church practises and adopts into their own tenets which they cannot find among the early apostles. If you Catholics can take the time to show us where the apostles practised these things, we're open and willing to consider them.
Cheers.

FlyLyde:

Lets talk about our various parishes, the societies we belong to in church and how we think others see Catholics. Do they think we are a kind of sect?

Guys you seem to be forgetting the real essence of this thread. Its not to declare a war of words. Its a well known fact that people would never find a common ground on issues such as this. All I asked is that the real Catholics pls. . . . .I trust that some NL users still understand English.

Hello Protestants,

Could there be more understanding now? I can't understand all the unnecessary attacks against Catholic Church.

Hello Pilgrim,

What do you want me to say again? I said we don’t worship idols and you said no, Catholics worship idols. So, you know my heart and can tell me what I worship? This has been the position of your fellow Protestants despite reemphasizing that we (Catholics) worship only the true God. I have explained the meaning of the word ‘PRAY’ before. Though, it is only you (Pilgrim), Cgift and Bigfred that have adopted a polite way of conversing with us, while formerly, you remained the only person that have not accused Catholic of idolatrous. However, I’m sorry to say that you have failed to keep the status-quo which was the main point of entering into a debate with you. Now, I doubt if there is anything I can say that will change the way you see Catholics. As friends, I can still discuss with you as long as you see me as a true Christian and not as idolater, and you have failed to let me know your own church – which does not balance this very discussion. Nevertheless, I must say your responses so far have been nice even though you have not agreed in any point we (Catholics) have made. But your fellow Protestants in the other thread came and chased me away with their abysmal discourtesy.

Besides, I still maintain that you have every right to point out the areas you feel (personal observations) that Catholic Church has done wrong, and call for more enlightening. But, it is wrong to put it to me directly that I worship Mary or idols. What is difficult here to get my point? Haba!

There is a very big difference between someone who want to discuss and know more about Catholic faith and someone who is sure of what Catholic faith is. So, you already know Catholic faith? If you are interested in knowing why Catholics adopt so many things, it will be a different story. Though, your contributions cannot change anything about Catholic faith and I will NEVER NEVER have any doubt(s) in me concerning Catholic doctrines- we are 100% true Church of Christ. Again, you can be of help by telling one or two people there that Catholic does not worship idols. That is the only reason for this sharing, and we learn from each other. Each time I display my displeasure – especially when Catholic Church is accused wrongly, I always make sure I don’t direct it to any particular person. In this way, no one will accuse me of any personal attack. You know in Nairaland, some people can easily resort to insult in order to pass their messages, and we must avoid this. I didn’t want to engage in this debate or reply to person again, but calling in mind your responses in the 666 thread and the way you followed it all - it has compelled me to explain to you.

I Wish You Well.

My mistake,

Bigfred has been one of those that ignoranlty attack Catholic Church unnecessarily. He's not being polite.

dear ebos,

Not to worry. Lets keep praying for one another. Everyone is got some moles/specks in his eyes. We all try by the help of Gods Spirit to understand the mysteries of Christ, but we can never fully come to know him until we see him. Lets keep praying for one another, we will all be surprised what shall happen in those days. One important thing is: we must be open to receive revelational knowledge from God in order to know him and his will for our lives.

We must howevr run away from the practices that openly negate his words and pray for the Holy Spirit to help us to recognise and desist from th ones that are hidden sins.

God help us all!

Hi again @ebos

ebos:

What do you want me to say again? I said we don’t worship idols and you said no, Catholics worship idols. So, you know my heart and can tell me what I worship? This has been the position of your fellow Protestants despite reemphasizing that we (Catholics) worship only the true God. I have explained the meaning of the word ‘PRAY’ before. Though, it is only you (Pilgrim), Cgift and Bigfred that have adopted a polite way of conversing with us, while formerly, you remained the only person that have not accused Catholic of idolatrous. However, I’m sorry to say that you have failed to keep the status-quo which was the main point of entering into a debate with you. Now, I doubt if there is anything I can say that will change the way you see Catholics. As friends, I can still discuss with you as long as you see me as a true Christian and not as idolater, and you have failed to let me know your own church – which does not balance this very discussion. Nevertheless, I must say your responses so far have been nice even though you have not agreed in any point we (Catholics) have made. But your fellow Protestants in the other thread came and chased me away with their abysmal discourtesy.

I do apologise if my recent responses (and those from other Protestants) have been somewhat unsettling to my Catholic friends. Love sometimes is tough; and I try to always be cautious to not take things too far when trying to dialogue with other discussants. There are many things in your recent post that I might have wanted to elaborate upon; but I'd rather be reserved at the moment so that we all calm down and enjoy some amicable air among ourselves.

ebos:

Besides, I still maintain that you have every right to point out the areas you feel (personal observations) that Catholic Church has done wrong, and call for more enlightening. But, it is wrong to put it to me directly that I worship Mary or idols. What is difficult here to get my point? Haba!

No vex - I apologise again.

I don't see you as an idolater on a personal level (as I'm fully aware that not all Catholics actually have the same persuasions about Mariolatry). However, na my own I dey jeje when some people no go let pilgrim.1 rest. That was why in the other thread, I was prompted to bring their attention to the issues that inform the debate between Catholics and Protestants.

ebos:

There is a very big difference between someone who want to discuss and know more about Catholic faith and someone who is sure of what Catholic faith is. So, you already know Catholic faith? If you are interested in knowing why Catholics adopt so many things, it will be a different story. Though, your contributions cannot change anything about Catholic faith and I will NEVER NEVER have any doubt(s) in me concerning Catholic doctrines- we are 100% true Church of Christ. Again, you can be of help by telling one or two people there that Catholic does not worship idols. That is the only reason for this sharing, and we learn from each other. Each time I display my displeasure – especially when Catholic Church is accused wrongly, I always make sure I don’t direct it to any particular person. In this way, no one will accuse me of any personal attack. You know in Nairaland, some people can easily resort to insult in order to pass their messages, and we must avoid this. I didn’t want to engage in this debate or reply to person again, but calling in mind your responses in the 666 thread and the way you followed it all - it has compelled me to explain to you.

I understand how you feel. However, if I should post what you requested in highlights, it would only open the flood gates for even more bitter exchanges. More so, because it is hard for Protestants to understand why Catholics adopt the practice of bowing before statues and yet have not been able to defend the practice from the Bible.

All the same, my dear ebos, life is a gift to be enjoyed. How we spend it here will determine what account we give of ourselves before God in that Day. May the Lord help us to embrace His truth as revealed in His WORD, and to share the same in the spirit of true love and deepest friendships.

Many blessings.

ebos:

My mistake,

Bigfred has been one of those that ignoranlty attack Catholic Church unnecessarily. He's not being polite.

ebos,

I will not hesitate to apologise if you can refer to were i have used any strong word against the catholic church.If people say catholics worship idols(not me,but i maitain that catholics bow to images of what i don't know) that will not make me an enemy of catholics, after all, my best friends are all catholics right from primary school to this moment even one of them will soon be ordained a priest this year and i must be there. I have always tried to see reasons with them and they also see my reasons and it does not in any way affect our relationship.
so if my opinion on this thread did not come to you in a friendly way, well,what can i say?but the bitter truth even if it makes you cry.
God bless us all.

Obviously, many catholics do not know the origin of Mary-honouring. They also do not care to even know whther it is biblical or not. Why?

Hello Pilgrim, Cgift, Bigfred

I’m not annoyed that you observed some certain things concerning Catholic Church. You are entitled to make your contribution(s) but try to be polite. We are not teenagers. However, Pilgrim, apology is noted. It takes someone who is meek to do what she did.

I don’t know her age, but her responses portray her as a mature person. I love that.

Hi ebos,

I still deeply appreciate your openness and willingness to discuss, and to offer to make sense out of the discussions both ways. Your maturity is much valued. Many blessings.

Hi Pilgrim,

I have not refused to respond to your posts as long as you want to know more on Catholicism. I can offer some good points as regards to my faith hence I only want just mutual understanding. If I want to be rascally, certainly not on the thread that will demoralize my fellow Catholics. If we go to jokes and politics etc sections - then my approach will change a bit.

Feel fine