God, who is the Father of "every good gift and every perfect gift" (James 1:17) desires that we all seek to help one another come to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4). His sure presence is guaranteed to those who desire His WORD in purity without the contravening interpolations of human traditions (Psalm 119:140 - "Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.".

Shalom.

Gozizi, thanks for the introduction to such a wonderful site. Its really great. To fellow brothers and sisters, keep the faith

Today's Saint 5/10/07

St. Faustina (1905-1938)


St. Mary Faustina's name is forever linked to the annual feast of the Divine Mercy (celebrated on the Second Sunday of Easter), the divine mercy chaplet and the divine mercy prayer recited each day by many people at 3 p.m.

Born in what is now west-central Poland (part of Germany before World War I), Helena was the third of 10 children. After age 16 she worked as a housekeeper in three cities before joining the Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy in 1925. She worked as a cook, gardener and porter in three of their houses.

In addition to carrying out her work faithfully, generously serving the needs of the sisters and the local people, she also had a deep interior life. This included receiving revelations from the Lord Jesus, messages that she recorded in her diary at the request of Christ and of her confessors.

At a time when some Catholics had an image of God as such a strict judge that they might be tempted to despair about the possibility of being forgiven, Jesus chose to emphasize his mercy and forgiveness for sins acknowledged and confessed. “I do not want to punish aching mankind,” he once told St. Mary Faustina, “but I desire to heal it, pressing it to my merciful heart” (Diary 1588). The two rays emanating from Christ's heart, she said, represent the blood and water poured out after Jesus' death (Gospel of John 19:34)

Because Sister Mary Faustina knew that the revelations she had already received did not constitute holiness itself, she wrote in her diary: “Neither graces, nor revelations, nor raptures, nor gifts granted to a soul make it perfect, but rather the intimate union of the soul with God. These gifts are merely ornaments of the soul, but constitute neither its essence nor its perfection. My sanctity and perfection consist in the close union of my will with the will of God” (Diary 1107).

Sister Mary Faustina died of tuberculosis in Krakow, Poland, on October 5, 1938. Pope John Paul II beatified her in 1993 and canonized her in 2000.

Quote

Four years after Faustina's beatification, Pope John Paul II visited the Sanctuary of Divine Mercy at Lagiewniki (near Krakow) and addressed members of her congregation. He said: “The message of divine mercy has always been very close and precious to me. It is as though history has written it in the tragic experience of World War II. In those difficult years, this message was a particular support and an inexhaustible source of hope, not only for those living in Krakow, but for the entire nation. This was also my personal experience, which I carried with me to the See of Peter and which, in a certain sense, forms the image of this pontificate. I thank divine providence because I was able to contribute personally to carrying out Christ's will, by instituting the feast of Divine Mercy. Here, close to the remains of Blessed Faustina, I thank God for the gift of her beatification. I pray unceasingly that God may have 'mercy on us and on the whole world' (chaplet of Divine Mercy).”

Glory to Jesus
Honour to Mary

the chaplet of Divine Mercy is one of my favorite prayers
it gives me so much peace.

Glory to Jesus
Honour to Mary

May the blessings of Almighty God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit be with each and everyone of us both now and forever. Amen.

Thanks all for keeping the faith alive.

again please don't forget my intentions. i'm indeed very grateful.

Holy Mary Our Hope Seat of Wisdom, Pray for us. Amen.

Saint Mary Faustina Kowalska (1905 - 1938)

It is remarkable to note that St. Mary Faustina (born as Helena Kowalska) was one of the rare saints to be canonized in the RCC whose devotion and prayers were more towards Jesus Christ than towards MARY. Faustina's devotions have led to the establishment of the RCC feast day known as 'Feast of Divine Mercy'. However, one may well wonder that the salvation of souls is made to rest on the chaplet of this ritual, than on the Biblical teaching of a simple trust in the Lord Jesus Christ alone.

It is reported that in the 1930s, Faustina received a message of mercy from Jesus which she was to spread throughout the world; and consequently was made 'the apostle and secretary of God's mercy'. Her mission was to include being a model of how to be merciful to others, and an instrument for reemphasizing God's plan of mercy for the world. Her diary, Divine Mercy in My Soul is now the handbook for the devotion to 'The Divine Mercy'; and the prayers are said thereto using ordinary rosary beads of 'five decades'.

A few remarkable features of the revelations of Faustina

Faustina's revelations were said to be directly from "Jesus Christ", and not from any apparitions of MARY. However, there clearly seem to be conflict of interests betweeen the 'Divine Mercy' (Faustina's) and Secret of Fatima (Lucia's) revelations, as outlined below:

[list][li]Secret of Fatima was reportedly given earlier (1917) than the Divine Mercy revelation (1931). However, while the Fatima revelation came through the apparitions of 'MARY', the Divine Mercy was reportedly directly from 'JESUS' (some reports say He appeared to Faustina).[/li][/list]

[list][li]Contents of the 'revelations'[/li][/list]

[list]The Fatima revelation ("second secret" seeks to devote/consecrate men to the Immaculate Heart of MARY; while the Divine Mercy revelation seeks to devote/consecrate men to JESUS. In other words, on the one hand, salvation was to be effected through the "second secret" of Fatima; while on the other hand, the salvation of souls was to be effected through another means - the 'Divine Mercy' revelation of Faustina![/list]

[list]This is how they are contrasted:[/list]

[list][list]According to the official RCC publications of the "second secret of Fatima", we read the following of how 'MARY' in her appearance was dictating to Lucia, that:

"To save them [poor sinners who are on the road to hell],
God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart.
If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved
and there will be peace[/list][/list]

Please notice that this 'MARY' seeks to establish world devotion to HER ("My Immaculate Heart"! Is this consistent with the Biblical message? Hardly so. And further, is this consistent with the message of Faustina's 'Divine Mercy'?!? Not at all. Let's contrast the above with the contents of Faustina's revelation:

[list][list]According to the RCC official publications of the 'Divine Mercy', the 'Jesus' that had revealed the messages to Faustina said the following amongst other things:

"My daughter, know that My Heart is mercy itself.
From this sea of mercy, graces flow out upon the whole world. . .
I desire that your heart be an abiding place of My mercy.
I desire that this mercy flow out upon the whole world through your heart.
Let no one who approaches you go away without that trust in My mercy
which I so ardently desire for souls. (Diary 1777)"[/list][/list]

Now, my dear Catholics, which is which?

* Is ankind to be entrusted to "the heart of MARY" who said:
"To save them [poor sinners who are on the road to hell]
God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart"

. . . OR:

* Is mankind to be entrusted to the "heart of Jesus" in Faustina's revelation:
"My daughter, know that My Heart is mercy itself.
From this sea of mercy, graces flow out upon the whole world"

. . .OR:

* Is mankind to be entrusted to the "heart of Faustina" according to her diary:
"I desire that this mercy flow out upon the whole world through your heart"?!?

So, which is which? Is it the 'heart of MARY'? Or, the 'heart of JESUS'? Or yet, is it the ''heart of Faustina"?


RCC and her Vatican magic! No wonder una dey fear to trust the WORD of God!


"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Glory to Jesus

Honour to Mary

St. Faustina Kowalska, Pray for us.

pamperme, how u de now hope all's well

oh blood and water which gushed forth from the heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us, we trust in you.

Amen ooooo!!!!


may we receive that divine Mercy which we so earnestly seek from thee O Lord!

may his Mercy and guidaince follow us through out this weekend be our source of encouragement and trust. . . . Amen!
lets remember to say the Divine Mercy rosary at this today being the feast.


Glory to Jesus
Honour to Mary.

Hello Carlosein, can you send the the divine mercy picture into my box i will like to use it as my computer wallpaper. (obynezz@yahoo.co.uk)

I felt the presence of God merely looking at the picture, i can see myself kneeling at the feet of the cross of Jesus.

Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless
and the treasury of compassion -inexhaustible, look kindly upon us and
increase your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor
become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your
holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself. Amen.

most certainly oby, sending it right now my man.

God bless and Mother Mary too.

oby1

sent it hope you got it.

take care and bye

have a blessed weekend.

Holy Mary, Queen of Apostles, Pray for Us. Amen.

cARLOSEIN,

how you dey. Una dy bone us abi? How family now. Wetin be the maning of your name?

Saint Mary Faustina Kowalska (1905 - 1938)

Since Faustina's novena prayers are traditionally made around 3.pm in their seasons to indicate a religious reminder of the Hour of Christ's Passion, perhaps it is not too late to strike another feature of St. Faustina's 'revelations' on the clock! If the hour's past 3 O'clock in your locality, don't be alarmed. Afterall, back or front, another 3 O'clock will light upon you!

Hello dear Catholics. This is pilgrim.1 again, reporting live from outside the Vatican magic!

Let's take a few moments and recap on the religious criss-crosses of Faustina's 'revelations' and see if they match with the revealed WORD, the Bible. It is imperative that as Christians, we find clear pointers for our salvation in the Holy Scriptures. Afterall, we don't want to be 'tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine' being pandered to deceive believers (Eph.4:14).

Certainly, Faustina Kowalska did not start out imagining herself to deliberately go out to deceive anyone. Since she is declared by the RCC to be 'the apostle of God's mercy', it all the more becomes imperative that we carefully examine her 'devotions'. Rather than swallow everything in her "Diary" as coming from the Christ of God, we are asked to discern matters and test them whether such things actually bear the stamp of the Spirit of God (1 John 4:1).

At the end of the day, could we honestly say that Faustina's Diary harmonizes with the revealed WORD; or we yet have to come to a different and contrasting inference?

Why the RCC venerates St. Faustina

Among the many things that one finds in the Diary of St. Faustina (aka "Divine Mercy in My Soul", over 600 pages), it carries the language of self-authentication as if actually revealed by Christ Himself. Such allusions are clearly stated many times, especially in language involving direct references of communication as if 'Jesus' was directly speaking to St. Faustina. For example, she records that 'Jesus' Himself personally referred to her as:

"Apostle of My mercy"
"Secretary of My mercy" (D. 965, 1160)
"Secretary of My most profound mystery"
"My daughter"
"My Spouse"
. . .and "My loving host"

. . .among several others. Further, we are made to feel as though 'Christ' personally commissioned her with the 'revelations' in her Diary:

[list]"Secretary of My most profound mystery, know that yours is an exclusive intimacy with Me. Your task is to write down everything that I make known to you about My mercy, for the benefit of those who by reading these things will be comforted in their souls and will have the courage to approach Me. I therefore want you to devote all your free moments to writing".[Diary 1693][/list]

[list]"Apostle of My mercy, proclaim to the whole world My unfathomable mercy. Do not be discouraged by the difficulties you encounter in proclaiming My mercy. These difficulties that affect you so painfully are needed for your sanctification and as evidence that this work is Mine. My daughter, be diligent in writing down every sentence I tell you concerning My mercy, because this is meant for a great number of souls who will profit from it." [Diary 1142][/list]

From these instances the RCC would easily have imagined that Fautina's Diary was a 'true' revelation from Jesus Christ Himself. Afterall, who would want to doubt the "Apostle" and "Secretary" of profound mystery? It would be of little consequence that the message itself in the Diary contradicts the Bible - as long as the contradictions have been pronounced as "evidence that this work is MINE"!

In the pages following, let's review the "EVIDENCE".

St. Faustina's Diary - "Revelations" from Jesus Christ?

But who is this 'Jesus' who is reported to have "appeared" to Helena Kowalska with several 'messages' to spread throughout the world? The reason for doing so at all is because the very WORD of God urges us to be particularly watchful that we're not carried along by people who preach or present "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:3-4). We live especially in such times when the manifestations of many 'Christs' with signs and wonders would be urged upon the very elect to deceive them (Mark 13:22). Shall we not then be confident enough to examine these matters and safeguard ourselves from clever deceptions of which we have been warned?

Who then is this 'Jesus' that is the subject of Faustina's Diary? We can identify this personage through the contents of what was revealed to her.


A. On what Day is Forgiveness of Sins Granted?

Faustina's Diary:

"Whoever approaches the Fountain of Life on this day
will be granted complete forgiveness of sins and punishment"
(Diary 300)

"On that day the very depths of My tender mercy are open.
I pour out a whole ocean of graces upon those souls who
approach the fount of My mercy. The soul that will go to
Confession and receive Holy Communion shall obtain complete
forgiveness of sins and punishment" (Diary 699)

Comments: Does it then mean that if anyone comes to the Lord Jesus Christ on any other day, they would not find "complete forgiveness of sins and punishment"? Why would forgiveness of sins have to be on a special day - "this day" [i.e., 'the Second Sunday after Easter']?

On the contrary, the Bible clearly shows us that anyone who comes to the Lord Jesus Christ on any day at all will find complete forgiveness of sins. Let's see a few of these:

The BIBLE:

[list][li]"For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, NOW IS THE DAY of salvation" (2 Cor. 6:2)[/li][/list]

[list][li]"But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, TODAY if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness" (Heb. 3:6-8.)[/li][/list]

Complete forgiveness of sins is granted to the repentant the very day such a person receives the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour. To predicate the grace of complete forgiveness of sins on Faustina's "this day" [i.e., 'the Second Sunday after Easter'] is to detract from the full revelation that God delights to pour out His love on people every single day of the year!

B. Faustina's "Jesus" Contradicting Himself?

Perusing the over 600 pages of Faustina's Diary presents us with a huge question: Is the "Jesus" of St. Faustina so delighted with contradicting himself? Not to mention the over-emphases of Faustina's self-praise and false humility that peppers the Diary of the "Secretary of My most profound mystery". Reading this volume of what the RCC terms a 'mystic' work simply leaves the enquirer slaving on endless repetitions of the uncertainties and doubts of Faustina's spirituality!

Let's sample a few of these.

[list][li]Faustina's "Jesus" speaks through her confessors and at the same time they contradict His commands:[/li][/list]

[list]". . .At first, I did not realize this, but when I was making my Holy Hour I saw the Lord Jesus as He appears in the Image, and He told me that I must repeat to my confessor and my superiors everything He says to me or asks of me,  and do only what you receive permission to do. And He gave me to know how displeased He was with persons who are self-willed, and I recognized that I was one of these. . ." [Diary 560]

"Thursday. During the evening adoration, I saw Jesus scourged and tortured. He said to me, My daughter, I desire that even in the smallest things, you rely on your confessor. Your greatest sacrifices do not please Me if you practice them without the confessor's permission; on the other hand, the smallest sacrifice finds great value in My eyes, if it is done with his permission. . ." [Diary 639]

"+ Jesus, I have noticed that You seem to be less concerned with me. Yes, My child, I am replacing Myself with your spiritual director [Father Andrasz]. He is taking care of you according to My will. Respect his every word as My own. He is the veil behind which I am hiding. Your director and I are one; his words are My words." [Diary 1308][/list]

[list]Inspite of all these flowery assurances, poor Faustina came back with a profound apology for the contradiction:

"Then I saw the Lord Jesus, as He is represented in the image, and He said to me, Tell the confessor that this work is Mine and that I am using you as a lowly instrument. And I said, "Jesus, I can no longer do anything You command me to do, because my confessor has told me that all this is an illusion, and that I am not allowed to obey any of Your commands. I will do nothing that You will tell me to do now. I am sorry, my Lord, but I am not allowed to do anything, and I must obey my confessor" [Diary 645][/list]


Here's the deal:

* Faustina's "Jesus" and her 'director' are ONE ["his words are MY words" - D. 1308]
* However, Faustina's confessor told her it's all an illusion and she could not obey him!

The nectar of contradiction is indeed sweet to candidates of deception.

C. Further Contradictions in Faustina's "Jesus"?

It just seems as though St. Faustina's "Jesus" often had a clash of interests between himself and other deities worshipped and venerated in the RCC. For instance, on a few occasions he 'revealed' to Faustina that she was to model her life after that of 'Jesus' from his birth to death; whareas, MARY shows up later and demands the same thing of Faustina that she model her life after Mary's!

[list][li]"June 30, 1935. At the very beginning of Holy Mass on the following day, I saw Jesus in all His unspeakable beauty. He said to me that He desired that such a Congregation be founded as soon as possible, and you shall live in it together with your companions. My Spirit shall be the rule of your life. Your life is to be modeled on Mine, from the crib to My death on the Cross. . ." [Diary 438][/li][/list]

[list]". . . and He said to me, This is how you and your companions are going to be clothed. My life from birth to death on the Cross will be the rule for you. Fix your eyes upon Me and live according to what you see. I desire that you penetrate into My spirit more deeply and understand that I am meek and humble of heart." [Diary 526][/list]

[list]But Mary appears later and stated a contrary claim:[/list]

[list][li]"In the evening, when I was praying, the Mother of God told me, Your lives must be like Mine: quiet and hidden, in unceasing union with God, pleading for humanity and preparing the world for the second coming of God." [Diary 625]
[/li][/list]


[list][li]It may interest a few readers to check out some of the "mysteries" and the visions that St. Faustina had:[/li][/list]

[list]"+Once when I went outside the convent to go to confession [St. Michael's Church], I chanced upon my confessor [Father Sopocko] saying Mass just then. After a while I saw the Child Jesus on the altar, joyfully and playfully holding out His hands to him. But a moment later the priest took the beautiful Child into his hands, broke Him up and ate Him alive. At the first instant I felt a dislike for the priest for having done this to Jesus, but I was immediately enlightened in the matter and understood that this priest was very pleasing to God."  [Diary, 312][/list]

[list][li]Has Christ accomplished the sacrifice for sins; or do sinners do so by themselves?[/li][/list]

[list]Faustina's "Jesus" believes that sinners could make their own sacrifice for sins - despite the fact that the Bible teaches us that the Son of God had offered the perfect sacrifice for every sinner![/list]

[list]"October 1, 1937. Daughter, I need sacrifice lovingly accomplished, because that alone has meaning for Me. Enormous indeed are the debts of the world which are due to Me; pure souls can pay them by their sacrifice, exercising mercy in spirit." [Diary 1316][/list]

What does the Bible rather teach about the sacrifice for our sins? Here:

[list]"And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour" [Eph. 5:2]
"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God" [Heb. 10:12][/list]

If this is the clear testimony of God's WORD - that the true Christ of God has offered "one sacrifice for sins forever", then who is the "Jesus" of Fastina's revelations that was asking: "I need sacrifice lovingly accomplished. . . pure souls can pay them by their sacrifice"?!? 


Beloved, we have been bought once and for all by the precious Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rev. 5:9). The Biblical Christ really does NOT need any soul to "pay" for anything "by their sacrifice" - and the one who is asking anybody to do so is actually detracting and defaming the perfect sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Need for Spiritual Discernment

There may be several things that people find "attractive" in St. Faustina's Diary. For example, the desire for souls to be 'saved'; that prayer be made for all; that God's mercy be revealed to humanity; and the 'complete' forgiveness of sins.

However, though all these things may sound so very nice and 'Christian', let's also remember that the enemy sometimes tries to decieve the people of God by mentioning these very things. It is not a new phenomenon to understand this point; for at the very onset, it was Satan who quoted the WORD of God concerning "divine safety" to Jesus: "For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee " (Luke 4:10). Also in Acts 16 we find a contrary spirit pretending to be in agreement with the things of God and declaring: "These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation" (vs. 17).

Friends, let's be watchful and not be candidates of deception. Clearly, as has been demonstrated, Faustina's Diary presents a message which sound like 'Christianity'; but in reality it is just another Vatican fallacy to beleaguer souls who may take them at surface value as coming from God.

Our safety is in the infallible WORD of God inspired by the Holy Spirit; and we must come to terms with the fact that Faustina's 'Diary' does not carry any weight of conviction as 'Scripture'. That which the Spirit of God reveals is clear, solid, and consistent. Any other writ claiming to have been revealed by 'God' must be consistent with His WORD. Failing to do so is clear proof that a different spirit is in operation. The old prophet said: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:20).

Shalom.

Glory to jesus, honour to Mary.
i was hoping this forum will be for us Catholics to help ourselves build our faith but its turned out to be one big bogus argument. much as i would not want to engage in a pointless arguement, i would like those involved to first define the basis of their aguements.
if you say catholics worship Mary, or Pray to Mary, what is your definition of Prayer? did the Catholics tell you this or you decided they do?
you ask for proof in the Bible, what is the Bible to you? a law book? a testament of God's love? an all in all answer book? where did the bible come from?
is this arguement just to win or you really want to know the truth or share the truth?there a lot more things we need to ask, like your relationship with your pastors, do you worship them? think before you answer. you ask them to pray for you, can't you do that yourselves?
if Jesus is God, why is not Mary not the Mother of God?
on Saint Joseph, he is honored as well but remember he had no blood relationship with Jesus as Mary had being the mother.
all in all, do catholics obey the greatest commandment? love God above all things and your neigbor as your self? do protestants do same?

let's see how we can promote the Kingdom of God rather than tearing ourselves down.
God is love, let us love ourselves and spread his message to those who have not known.
God bless us all.
Glory to Jesus, Honor to Mary.

Hi @omerese,

omerese:

i was hoping this forum will be for us Catholics to help ourselves build our faith but its turned out to be one big bogus argument. much as i would not want to engage in a pointless arguement, i would like those involved to first define the basis of their aguements.
if you say catholics worship Mary, or Pray to Mary, what is your definition of Prayer? did the Catholics tell you this or you decided they do?

Much as you would not want to engage in a pointless argument, you have unfortunately started one.

HOW MANY times have we asked Catholics themselves to clearly define what they mean by "praying to" Mary?!?

At first, many Catholics assertively denied that they "PRAY TO" Mary; but after several clear evidences to confirm by Catholic authorities that they actually PRAY TO her were posted, Catholics dropped the denials!

We asked what they mean by "honouring" Mary - up until NOW, they have cleverly ducked that same question under a sanctimonious hush! I was hoping you would provide a simple and good answer to that question as well - have you done so?

Your Catholic Bishops and Popes have called MARY the Savior of the people of Rome. Please can you explain what they mean by that title and how they arrived at that? HOW MANY SAVIOURS do we have in Christianity?

Your Popes have clearly stated that Catholics put ALL their trust and hope in MARY instead of in Christ - go and ask Pope Leo XIII about this. Do you care to provide answers as to WHY Catholics would do so? And where does that leave the Lord Jesus Christ in whom Christians have put all their trust and hope?


My dear, you have only come on board to argue without answers. Until you come ready with answers, I'll be praying for you.

Shalom.

i made last posting by reading only the first page of this Forum. now i see i am far behind .

to Pilgrim,
i carefully read your postings pilgrim, it is obvious you have studied the diary indepth which i cannot claim to have. however, i have this feeling you seek contradictions where there are none, for example your analysis of the Day of mercy . there is nothing in the statement that precludes other days from God's mercy and forgiveness being given, it just says this day is special among other days, nothing extraordinary about that.

St faustina is human, obviously she cannot discern everything that she sees or hears immediately not even perfectly, a diary is different from a book because you record immediately what you experience, there is not much time for reflection.
Many a times we see Saints showing their humanity by not understanding the desire of God, this is aplenty in the bible too, from Moses throug the Prophets to Peter and Paul. so there is nothing wrong in St Faustina showing her misundertanding between her instuction from Jesus and her confessor.
in trying to create a dichotomy between the message of Fatima and Faustina you raise the assumption that they are parallel, why can't the 2 be aimed at the same result? is mary not a messenger of Jesus? is her message not to direct us towards God? why do you create a contradiction?
This diary was never written in English, translations are often misleading, bear this in mind when analysing. reading a book with spiritual insight is different from reading a book with academic/analytic insights. u have done great by going through the diary but i really don't see the basis for 'a diferent Jesus' or most of your fears.
finally, take the best of the message that you can understand and leave the rest out.

Glory to Jesus, Honor to Mary

acts 26:24 "too much knowledge has made you mad!"

omerese:

you ask for proof in the Bible, what is the Bible to you? a law book? a testament of God's love? an all in all answer book? where did the bible come from?

If the Bible has NO answers, the Catholic Church should not be boasting herself to have canonized it. It's really a paradox of sorts that the Catholic Church would claim to have given us the Bible; and yet, it is still the same RCC that is most vehemently opposed to its message.

omerese:

is this arguement just to win or you really want to know the truth or share the truth?there a lot more things we need to ask, like your relationship with your pastors, do you worship them? think before you answer. you ask them to pray for you, can't you do that yourselves?

1. Some of us have been sharing Biblical truth here - unfortunately, Catholics are the leats interested in those truths.

2. MANY TIMES we have stated clearly that we do NOT worship our pastors - unfortunately, we haven't read any scholarly Catholic defend Mariolatry from the Bible.

3. Again, we can pray for ourselves and for one another (James 5:16); but we do NOT bow down to statues of our pastors as expressly forbidden by God!

omerese:

if Jesus is God, why is not Mary not the Mother of God?

Did your God DIE on the Cross?

If Jesus is the LAMB of God, why is Mary not called the Mother of a Lamb?

If Jesus is the LION of the tribe of Judah, why is it taken you guys forever to call Mary "the Mother of LION"?

omerese:

on Saint Joseph, he is honored as well but remember he had no blood relationship with Jesus as Mary had being the mother.

I hear - that's simply another RCC tradition which continues to embarrass the Vatican because they have no answers for the meaning of what it is to "honour" Joseph.

omerese:

all in all, do catholics obey the greatest commandment? love God above all things and your neigbor as your self? do protestants do same?

The love of God is defined in terms obedience to God's commandments, and not disobedience thereto (see 1 John 5:2 - "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments".

When you break God's commandment by stubbornly bowing down to molten images which God Himself expressly forbids, where is then the "love" of God? It simply becomes an empty claim.

You want to love God? Keep His WORD. To disobey His commandments is effectively to rubbish any claim to "love" Him. Period.

omerese:

let's see how we can promote the Kingdom of God rather than tearing ourselves down.

Amen - but perhaps that should have come much earlier than now, during the dark epoch of Church history when the Roman Catholic Church not only tore souls apart; but sent millions to their untimely graves for no other "crime" than their seeking to worship God in the truth of His WORD.

omerese:

God is love, let us love ourselves and spread his message to those who have not known.
God bless us all.

Amen again. The love of God does not include the deception that is being daily spewed out to the four corners of the earth to damn souls. "Love" at the expence of "truth" - what do you call that?

omerese:

Glory to Jesus, Honor to Mary.

God and study the WORD for yourself - and see that tyo render divine 'honour' to Mary is unadulterated idolatry!

Cheers.

thanks pilgrim.1, what would me answering those questions change? if your definition of 'pray to' differs from mine, we would still not be in agreement.
if your understanding of Saviour of the world differs from that of the Church Fathers, we would still not be in agreement.
till we can all agree on the definition of our terms, we will keep arguing to and fro.
if i ask you to remember me in your prayers, by simple the definition, i have prayed to you.
if i warned you of a danger ahead and you heeded, i am your saviour. if you were already in danger and i pulled you out, i am your saviour. there is no contradiction, just misunderstanding.
God bless you

@omerese,

omerese:

i made last posting by reading only the first page of this Forum. now i see i am far behind .

No worries - we all make little slips like that.  

omerese:

to Pilgrim,
i carefully read your postings pilgrim, it is obvious you have studied the diary indepth which i cannot claim to have. however, i have this feeling you seek contradictions where there are none, for example your analysis of the Day of mercy . there is nothing in the statement that precludes other days from God's mercy and forgiveness being given, it just says this day is special among other days, nothing extraordinary about that.

Well, indeed I've studied so many Catholic traditions (I would not boast that to be "indepth" though). I'd rather say here that I only carefully chose the easy issues that Catholic minds could easily accommodate; for had I posted the many obvious contradictions tended to outright blasphemies, perhaps several Catholics would be deeply hurt - which is not my intention.

However, when you go through the over 600 pages of Faustina's Diary, you will find explicit statements that are plain enough to indicate that the "mercy" of God is being poured out as an "ocean" on the second Sunday after Easter. Now let me ask you: what happens on other days? Does God withhold His mercy and send them down on earth in trickles and droplets?

God's mercy is abundantly available to all who come to God through Christ on ANY particular day at all. For someone to claim that "Jesus" reserves the second Sunday after Easter to pour out His mercy is just another dramatic promotion of Roman Catholic traditions that deflects from the Biblical Jesus.

omerese:

St faustina is human, obviously she cannot discern everything that she sees or hears immediately not even perfectly, a diary is different from a book because you record immediately what you experience, there is not much time for reflection.

My dear friend, throughout the course of her writing the Diary, she claimed that "Jesus" called her special names - such as "Apostle" and "Secretary" of his profound mysteries! Not only so, she further penned down statements which she claimed were direct dictates of "Jesus" confirming that EVERYTHING she wrote were His own WORD!

Where then is the "reflection" you're appealing to? Is that another way of saying that eaither: (a) Faustina was penning down words which were not really from "Jesus"; or, (b) she ought to have EDITED the dictations before it became public pronouncements? Lol.

I urge you to go study Faustina's Diary for yourself - but please prepare your heart: because you may come away dazed by her superflous claims and wonder if "Jesus" was indeed speaking to her!

omerese:

Many a times we see Saints showing their humanity by not understanding the desire of God, this is aplenty in the bible too, from Moses throug the Prophets to Peter and Paul. so there is nothing wrong in St Faustina showing her misundertanding between her instuction from Jesus and her confessor.

It was not a matter of "misunderstanding" - it was an explicit claim of Fuastina's "Jesus" speaking through her confessors!

Certainly, Faustina does not rank among apostle Peter and Paul, much less Moses! These were men who were moved by the Holy Spirit when they wrote down God's WORD - and I haven't cvome across any verse in the Bible where these men were "misunderstanding" themselves and blaiming it on any confessors!

@omesere,

omerese:

thanks pilgrim.1, what would me answering those questions change? if your definition of 'pray to' differs from mine, we would still not be in agreement.

In other words, would that be saying that you're not sure what it means to "PRAY TO" Mary? It's not a matter of my definition; rather, it's more a question of matters that affect us as CHRISTIANS.

If you have any example of Christians in the Bible praying to Mary, that would be helpful if you could help post such a verse.

omerese:

if your understanding of Saviour of the world differs from that of the Church Fathers, we would still not be in agreement.

Lol. . . in order words, the Church Fathers would terribly be confused as to whether there are TWO Saviours of only ONE?!? My dear friend, there's a huge difference between One Saviour and TWO messiahs! If the Church Fathers came along and proclaimed the heretical Pope Honorius as the "Saviour" of the people of Rome, we would have great pity for their capability to address the saints!

omerese:

till we can all agree on the definition of our terms, we will keep arguing to and fro.

Exactly! That's why Catholics need to promptly address our questions and offer definitions for the choice vocabs they use in Mariolatry.

omerese:

if i ask you to remember me in your prayers, by simple the definition, i have prayed to you.

Hmmm. . . you'd be making Mary seriously jealous! Try saying the following:

"Hail pilgrim.1, full of grace, the Lord is with you. . . blessed art thou among women" - - - x 10 times

"Our Father" . . . x 1 time

"Hail pilgrim.1" again. . . x another 10 times!

and then cap it up with:

"Ave pilgrim.1, pray for omesere poor sinner, now and at the hour of death.
Glory to Jesus, honour to pilgrim.1"

Would you be comfortable saying such "prayers"? Uhm. . . let's see what term that could be: "pilgrimolatry?" Okay, bottomlime: whatever term you use, that would be masking the idolatry behind the whole idea of praying to pilgrim.1!! It is wrong, and no "Bull" of the Vatican can make it acceptable to God.

omerese:

if i warned you of a danger ahead and you heeded, i am your saviour.

Definately not. You may playingfully call yourself an evangelist; but you're not my Saviour as far as salvation from sin and the wrath of God are concerned. Please go back and read what the Vatican means by declaring Mary the Savior of the poeple of Rome - and you'll find that she's not supposed as in the idea of warning Rome about any dangers!

omerese:

if you were already in danger and i pulled you out, i am your saviour. there is no contradiction, just misunderstanding.
God bless you

Again, NOPE. You may also use words playfully; but when it comes to the salvation of men's souls before God, what does the Vatican call MARY?

Cheers.

omerese:

Glory to Jesus, Honor to Mary

acts 26:24 "too much knowledge has made you mad!"

Lol. . I like that one - quite a nice verse for pilgrim.1. Hehe. . only few folks know what 'much learning' makes of us.

Cheers all the same.