And since you guys are arguing over whether Angels are sons or not, Allow me to break it down for you.

A son is simply a somebody who is a bearer of the will\Mandates of his superior(father) and exercises them. These were the jobs of Angels, to carry out Gods mandates; Because they had the mandates of God, they also had supernatural capabilities which is granted them through these authority. Thus they are like God and are the sons of God. Now, note that they were the sons of God under the dispensation of the law; The law was the legal institution operated/allowed by God and the angels where the enforcers of these laws; hence they represented God(by mandate) and therefore were "The sons of God";

Okay fast forward to the new testament; God has moved away from the Law of Moses(law of sin and death) and unto his true law/nature, which is total liberty from the law. There is only one person whom God revealed this true nature/mandate to, thus only one person who actually did the will of the father and who was the true son of God. This was Jesus Christ, The Only Begotten. Not even the Angels had this revelation and mandate. The angels had the mandate of the law and were the sons under the dispensation of law, while Jesus had the mandate of the spirit and thus he is the son under the dispensation of the spirit of truth.

BERNIMOORE:
he was an appointed person like a secretary to the boss thats the role, note that!

Where do you get these ideas that Jesus was a secretary(sort of)?? What exactly do you mean- secretary?? Somebody who keeps records? organizes appointments and administrative tasks? What principle(or scripture) do you base this interpretations on??

BERNIMOORE:
where do you see 'the fallen one in the whole bible? why manufacturing things not existing in the bible in the first place? tell me now! if im lying quote a verse that says 'fallen one'

what we have is;fallen angels, NOT Fallen one, do you agree?

What is the difference between "fallen one" and "fallen angel"?? This is the pattern of understanding of the typical, law-following nairaland christain. You guys focus too much on letters instead of principles/context/spirit. Remember: "The letter killeth...". Well; if you had the spirit you wouldn't be arguing irrelevant i-dottings and t-crossings of letters and literal interpretations.

.

OP makes a commentary(against trinity) that Jesus(Christ) had not always been before the the declaration: "This day have I begotten thee..", yet he fails(or refuses) to recognize that the scriptures he quoted actually validates the same pre-existence that he's arguing against.

BERNIMOORE:
Hebrews 1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds

Surely the passage above confirms Christ's pre-existence as the son of God. No??

iphy42:
What type of false teaching/interpretation is this? Flesh refers to Adamic nature, natural man or man apart from God and not Thr law of Moses or any law FTM.
Read your Bible well

The Law and "Adamic Nature" are exactly the same thing. The Law is just a formalization and legalization of the Adamic nature, Simple.

chinedumo: Have you read ' as he is so are wein this world'

True! "As he so are we in this earth..", bit which "He" are you referring to? The one who was crucified or the one who rose to replace him? The mistake of mainstream Christianity is to see both as the same. The Old had to die for the new to be born. The new Christ ushered in a new religion and way of thinking. The old was of the Law and the new is of the Spirit.

chinedumo: When did 'know we no man' become 'we practise and judge what is right'?

"Know we no man after the flesh..." means: We no longer evaluate, expect abidance or judge anybody according to the law of Moses; Which in reality is the Jesus that was crucified. Christ's crucifixion was the abolishment of this Law and hence we stop using/following it.

^^^
"After the flesh" or "Human Traditions" is equivalent to the law of Moses. Jesus was the personification/fulfillment of This Law. Churches use this Jesus character as the Model for christian conduct; Thus they follow the model/character/lifestyle that has been abolished.

^^^
"The Flesh"; "Worldly point of view"; "Human point of view"; "Human traditions"; etc: These are all references to the law of Moses, which Jesus practiced and upon which mainstream christianity bases their doctrines and morality.

If you were looking for my exact words in the OP; I was merely paraphrasing Sorry.

Day-in day-out I'd watch people come here to declare that Christianity means christ-like. This is what I too used to think, before coming into the true knowledge of Christ.

The early church were called Christians because they preached that the Christ has come, not because they were Christ(Jesus)-like. Certainly, they couldn't have behaved like Jesus did, nor could they have held the same values and doctrines like Jesus did. Yes, they started out still holding the Jewish doctrines because that was what they were used to, but they evolved to conform to true christianity and leave the jewish law behind. Jesus was a Jew, preached and practiced the Hebrew religion, then when the revelation of christianity(after his death and resurrection), it turn out that the doctrines of christianity were contrary to that of Judaism and contrary to how Jesus conducted himself. In fact Christian doctrine is so contrary to Jesus's lifestyle that Paul expressly declares that #paraphrase# "Though we used to practice and judge what is right based on the religion and character of Jesus, We hence forth stop and refuse to follow that way of life..."(2 Corinthians 5:16). Christianity is a new way of life\religion different from how Jesus conducted himself. If you still use that Jesus as a model for your christianity, then you are a follower of the Law, not of the Spirit of liberty(True Christianity) in Christ. As a christian, you are to have NOTHING to do with the law and that Jesus's doctrine/lifestyle.

CarCam: Humility isn't actually humility unless you are good enough at something to be humble.

Now the man Moses was very humble, more than any man who was on the face of the earth
- Numbers 12:3 New American Standard Bible

Being good enough at that thing; ie: exercising, practicing/following the steps of that thing is the humility itself. Humility is not abandoning your position so that people can praise you for not using your position. That is false and human humility; and is contrary to God;s definition. Using your bible quote:

Now the man Moses was very humble, more than any man who was on the face of the earth

It means that Moses kept/followed the dictates of his position/calling. This is humility.

The Question is: Can you be a Christian and Gay?? Yes! Being a Christian simply means you believe in the Salvation that comes through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, surely Gay people can also believe this. But this is just the first part of Christianity; Believing in Christ gives you the awareness and conscience of Christianity. Now the second part of Christianity is in making a deliberate, active effort to practice the doctrines and values of Christianity; this is where the change and profit of Christianity is derived. Actively Keeping the values/doctrines is what actually transforms your life spiritually, psychologically, biologically and economically. So you may have started out as gay, but this active practice of Christianity should turn you straight. Homosexuality is a fruit(product) of the sin/imperfect nature but Christian practice should rectify this se.xual-orientation.

I do not say this lightly and I do not delude myself; because virtually every church does not understand Christian doctrine, let alone practice it. So my judgement on this case is definitely not based on any mainstream Christianity because they cannot help the gay person with their teachings. Rather their teachings, being based on the laws of Moses, actually causes all sorts of se.xual deviations of which homosexuality is one. So a gay person can be Christian but indoctrinating homosexuality as Christian(which the OP seems to be doing) is the SIN and CANNOT lead to the profit of Christianity. A person who practices true Christian doctrine CANNOT CONTINUE to be gay, though he started out as one.

MEILYN:
lwkmd, well dayummmmmmmmmm,mademoiselle ishilove, nah ur husband u dey insult like dat?....Obadiah is a real prophet of God+his theories are completely true, he is funny, kind hearted, intelligent[Christianchat.com can testify to this], Obadiah is the Sire of all Sires

I just went and registered on christianchat.com, just to check out how obadiah777 is terrorizing them . It seems those people no dey waste time at all, Dem don ban am, which I think is unfair though. I dey go fight for am there. ...After some gymnastic session with girlfriend.

musKeeto: Lol, okey trying to earn points by calling atheism a religion... Make I no derail thread..

Ohh! you disagree?? Ok! Just answer me this: Does my earlier definition below cover atheism or not??

...a set of values and practices followed by any group of people in relation to the meaning of life, divinity and Gods.

Tgirl4real: I am looking at this from the point of view of the purpose of Jesus Christ on earth.

Did Jesus come to create a new religion (Christianity) or to point us back to the father?

Yes!! Jesus came to create a new religion. I know a lot of Christians without thinking like to recite the "Christianity is not a religion but a way of life" mantra. A religion is simply a set of values and practices followed by any group of people in relation to the meaning of life, divinity and Gods. I did not even look at a dictionary to arrive at this definition, but I'm sure I have accurately defined any religion, including atheism. Jesus came to bring in a new set of values and practices, different from the current beliefs(The Laws of Moses) at the time. By his death, he effectively abolished the old and by his resurrection, gave birth to a new religion from the blood of the old.

Let's look at this please in the light of scriptures, starting from the beginning - God's covenant with the Israelite and as it relates to us today.
Thanks.

God's covenant with the Israelites was the legalization of the Laws of Moses into a human administrative system. But this law itself was actually a covenant with the whole of mankind because the Laws was(is) human nature and conscience. The objective and efforts to enforce the law were attempts to attain perfection in our thinking and behaviour. These laws are a shadow of True Christianity, meaning that it follows and maps to True christian values, but ultimately is a misrepresentation of True christianity. So, to those who have been chosen to know know true christianity, they understand that christ's death means the death of the Law and the birth of a new one, and if the old is dead to us, We deliberately refuse to follow it's definitions, values and judgments. We make every effort to find out what the True Christian definitions, values and judgments are and we deliberately follow them.

Yes! women are better administrators/managers than men. Women's brains are naturally built to multi-task and organize competing/conflicting tasks. This is what makes women natural gatherers and hence natural managers than men. Do some internet research and you'll also find out this is a scientifically established fact.

Uyi Iredia: If a minor say a 13-year old abuses another minor in like manner, can he be persecuted.

What exactly is the relevancy of this question?? In defense of the pastor's actions, against or what??

Joagbaje:

Angels are servants, we have spiritual angels ,and human angels

Huh?? Can you explain this better? Reminds me of what someone said some years ago: "There is spirit-spirit, spirit-soul and spirit-body ...". I couldn't stop laughing.

xynerise:
Let me not be sentimental, many catholic churches sing majority of their praises in Igbo language, though they sometimes spice it up with Yourba songs. Sometimes I wonder if the Igbos are the first tribe that accepted catholism.

This is LIE!!! You delibrately misinform people, assuming to present a balanced observation. You make rubbish of the original intention of this thread which is to get to the root of why some churches have certain language preference.

I was born and raised a catholic in Lagos. In the churches I used to attend(SS Mulumba & David's Catholic church, Surulere and St Anthony's Surulere) Never was igbo the overwhelming language for preaching and hymns. Singing was all spread out amongst the different languages to form some balance, with english being the dominant language of service. infact one of the sunday services(back then, I don't know about now) was done exclusively in yoruba. So I think it is out of character and a lie to come here and spill false information that igbo is the language of church services.

.

shdemidemi: Sister, this is a christocentric teaching. The scripture (old testament) would be ordinary stories if we can't find Christ in them, everything from the beginning has and must always be pointing to Christ.

Now, when you see a covenant, it takes two people to take part in a covenant but God stood on both side of this covenant. Therefore when man fails to fulfill his part of the deal, God came like man to die as man.

Absolutely Not!!! The bolded has just nullified all the grace gospel you assume to preach. Christ died to abolish/replace the law of Moses. Not because of man's inability to abide by it but because of it's inability to make anybody righteous by God's standards. The law of Moses is a shadow of God's true laws; Shadow means: It follows a semblance of the substance but ultimately is a false representation of the substance. By claiming that christ's death was a result of man's inability to keep the Laws/covenant, you thereby assert that the law is a true representation of God's standards.

shdemidemi:

Bro, you can't really grasp the content of this document at the first glance, go back and read and re-read it. In addition you must take another look at Genesis 15 to see what really transpired between God and Abraham.

As for your first question about covenants, I am sure you would find out after doing a little research on what happens to whoever breaks a covenant and that was exactly the way it was then and more.

I disagree with your interpretations; What transpired between Abraham and God was a blood covenant. Blood covenants carry a spiritual significance and power. It means that the the oath\decree is binding on all interested parties. Abraham needed a decree that will be binding and irrevocable on God who has made a promise to him. The significance of spilling blood is that one life or one path\choice has been irreversibly given up in order to follow an alternative life/path/choice. According to natural laws, blood that is spilled cannot be put back(or life that is taken cannot be brought back), thus making this decree irrevocable until this debt is paid. This is a spiritual principle that all occult practices copy because they know it works(and of course these are shadows of the real thing: The death of Christ). It has nothing to do with your claims that "May the breaker of this covenant be torn apart ...". God simply walked the path of the spilled blood to show that he has signed the contract.

The answer to your second question is in Genesis 15, Abraham slept off and saw a vision of God going through the covenant that was originally meant to be for two.

The reason Abraham did not walk the blood path was because he was not the one who made a promise. The person who makes an promise(God in this case) is required to sign/fulfill(do the blood ritual) the covenant. It is not because God stood in for both parties as you claim, as only one person made a promise/proposal and the other person needed such proposal to be authoritative. That is the assurance Abraham needed to enter into this relationship. Also, it was not that Abraham doubted God's ability to do as he promised but he needed this promise to be binding so that God CANNOT change his mind.

Mehn!!! I never thought I'd see the day that I'd agree with raise the same issues as @frosbel

@OP's analysis, interpretations and extrapolations are heavily flawed(I think). @frosbels highlighted quotes are spot-on.

shdemidemi:

The general idea about the animals that were cut into two parts was that a requirement between the two parties involved in covenant would be to walk between the divided animals so as to signify that “may this be done to me if I break this covenant; may I be torn apart, may I be cut in half like these animals if I fail to carry out my part of the covenant”.

Abraham prepares the animals, but God is not man; so they won’t both walk between the divided animals. Abraham falls asleep and a horror of darkness enveloped him. A smoking furnace and a burning lamp (signifying the presence of God) went between the animals. ‘Wow!, That was God’, he would have reassured himself when he woke up from his dream. God made that covenant with Abraham. Abraham was not allowed to participate as the second party in the covenant; God was on both sides. In other words, God assured Abraham that He (God) should be torn apart like the animals if eventually He failed to keep His part of the covenant. God took full responsibility for the fulfillment of the covenant if eventually Abraham fails, although God was the first and the second party in the agreement.

Abraham will sin; Isaac, his son will be a wimp. Jacob would be a trickster and a deceiver all the way through. Jacob will have twelve sons, one of his sons will sleep with his father’s wife and another will sleep with his daughter-in-law. Ten of his sons will connive to sell or kill their brothers and these are the PATRIARCHS! Still God did not wipe them out. God has sworn in this symbolic act that whatever curses fall, they are to fall on Him.

This was the anchorage that made Abraham trust in God. He had nothing to lose and peradventure anything happens, God was to be torn apart like the animals divided into two parts. For when God made a promise to Abraham, because he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by himself.

I just have a few questions questions arising from the bolded above:

1- Where\How do you get the interpretation that: "May the breaker of the covenant be torn apart like the sacrificial animals were torn apart.." as being the significance of walking between the sacrifices??

2- Why do you conclude that Abraham was exempted as a second party to the covenant, As if normally he would have been required to partake in this ritual in the first place?

These questions may seem simple or trivial, but you have made the effort to emphasize the rituals(in bold) and their meanings repeatedly. Surely I disagree with your analysis and understanding of these rituals(and it has nothing to do with sex ) but before we delve into any exchanges, I must get some idea of where/how you draw these interpretations from. I'm not asking for too much details or lengthy explanations; just give me whatever you can. Cheers.

♥Dεs•Chγκσ♥:
Leonardo Da Vinci proclaims
"Blind ignorance doth mislead thee
O ye mortals, open thine eyes."

As Africans, we always tend to believe religion always entails supernatural beings. But in truth, religion is a way of life; entails principles and beliefs, even customs. Hence it's normal to say Yoruba is a religion. It's not all to it that meets the eye.
As for his death, it's sad, but it doesn't necessarily mean the allegation is true. Like I said, it's not all to it that meets the eye

In other words: english is a religion, spanish is a religion, german is a religion, shall I go on?? I was born in Nigeria and lived most of my life in Nigeria(Lagos), yet this is the first time I'd heard that yoruba is a religion, and you say this is normal?? Perhaps you don't understand the words you write above.

Glad the passages spells out the true meaning of humility which is absolute obedience/abidance to one's values or instructions.

Humility is not morality or not enjoying\displaying your wealth so that people will say "ohh what a humble man...". Such is the falsities that pervades religions today, where people praise you for not exercising your powers/rights and call it humility. Humility is the exercise(obedience) of power, not the denial of it.

dorox: Another sycophant. Why don't you save your prayer for the helpless
starving child that lives at the side of your street but you pretend not to notice.

+100 Likes

Even though these morons guys know seun is an atheist, they still must impose their beliefs on him.

^^^
You are uncomfortable because I use "new spirit" or "new God" but you have no problem with "old testament" and "new testament". Whether spirit, or character or testament etc, I am saying the same thing. Christians(religions) have this problem because they keep following/respecting "the letters" instead of the principles. Remember: The letter killeth...

@OP,

(Assuming these are literal events) It was the same God but different characters(spirit). The firsts character shows God dealing with man according to the choice he(man) made in the "garden of eden", thus handling man in harshness, misunderstandings and curses. That was the "legal" process that man had to pass through as a result of his fall from grace. We may not like it but that does not change the truth that it was god in action(or he allowed these things to happen, as we like to think ).

Now the second character is the new God or new testament where the true nature of God is revealed, that gives man the ability to revert back to the first nature (before man's fall), thus sin is taken away. So if sin is taken away, then the conscience, interpretation and curse of sin is also taken away. So this is the era of righteousness. Even though all religions today still follow and preach the sin nature(conscience) but the truth remains that the era of and power of sin has been "legally" abolished by the death of Jesus.

Can someone please ask @seun to separate notifications on the posts of people I am following from notifications of threads I'd personally participated in. These are my reasons:

1- It renders the following link redundant

2- It is annoying having to go through notifications and trying to sort-out what threads I'd actually participated in from threads I did not, yet they are included in my participations. I don't want this. This is why there is a separate link(following) just in case I'm in the mood to find out what other people(that I'm following) are gisting about. A notification space for my activities should be for my activities only.

3- It creates False alerts when I am looking forward to engage in threads I'd participated in, yet it keeps alerting me when unrelated and uninteresting threads by other people(that I may be following) are busy. I want my alerts to be for my activities, not for other peoples activities(again this is what the following link is for).

@udatso,

Most christians(and moslems. In fact everybody) don't have an idea of what this holy spirit is. The holy spirit is simply the mindset(or doctrine) of God. He is both a person and a doctrine but you cannot know the person withpout knowing the doctrine first. Christians think power, signs and wonders is the holy spirit but they are wrong. The holy spirit itself manifests power but most manifestations of power we see today is not the result of holy spirit. A man who truly has the holy spirit is a man who has the mindset of God, he has become equal to god(yeah I know; you guys are already shouting blasphemy!!! ). As god cannot sin, also the person with the mindset of god cannot sin in whatever he does that God has created; whatever food, drink, smoke, however he dresses, by what he practices, etc. All things created by god are good for use and to be enjoyed by man without having to feel guilty of committing sin. This is what it means to truly have the holy spirit(mindset of God). He CANNOT sin by using and enjoying anything of nature, including natural s.ex, ie: heteros.exual sex, even without marriage, As long as both parties consent.

This is not mainstream christianity; the truth about God cannot be mainstream. Mainstream religions are simply based on human traditions and values, therefore they make god into their own image(traditions, values) instead of them conforming to god's image. just my token

obadiah makes madness real fun and swagg!!. Welldone!!