₦airaland Forum

8years of Buhari destroyed Nigeria.. What exactly did we achieve with Buhari ? Dumbest presido ever.

raumdeuter:
As sad as this is, Until the leaders of the region, governors and all elected officials work together with the FG

Any president who tries it without the buy in of the regional leaders will surely fail and it will become genocide talks

Chairman these elite and leaders no get armoury for yard like you naa; these guys almost killed a Senator, decapitated HoA member; killed lots of traditional rulers and with their showing today you still expect any person to speak up?

We have a commander in chief, same way we blamed Jonathan during Boko haram, Tinubu deserves the blame if he fails to act decisively.

If I were him I would release Nnamdi Kanu to the British back to the UK to answer terroism charges, this gives him some goodwill in SE to withstand any fallout from military intervention (cos much as I hate saying anything against military, sometimes they overdo ) whilst at same time giving marching orders to the new security chiefs to root out this nonsense.

Doing Nothing is not an option, waiting for delegation from SE before doing something is also doing nothing.

raumdeuter:
if to say na he nack me you wan dey do, Na today? All those Apostle Suleiman accusers beyond 72hrs of fame they go down

Well there is the he raped me aspect they can chase too

Where is his Dad & Uncle in all these? A Trust Fund kid needs a good chapperone... Dem no get fixer ni?
No way as a billionaire I am would allow my son move maad without protection on these streets, especially when I only have 3? Are they waiting till he gets hit with a rape/assault charge by any of these radomers..

larride:
My wife give birth to a bouncing baby girl this afternoon. Both mother and child are in good health. 😎

Congratulations chairman, May God bless and continue to protect your family.

larride:
Tbh, I will be angry but it doesn't change the fact that the reason there was strike in the first place was because the govt and lecturer unions are always clashing because of low salaries.

The schools are not charging reasonable fees to take care of the running of the schools which means the govt have to continue to fund them. That's the subsidy.

I went to a state uni, we had a less crowded hall, very good library and a working clinic all working efficiently on campus yet my school fees was 95k per session with zero extra fees paid after. Also with zero strike. While I was paying 95k per session, my friend at Redeemers was paying in excess of 700k for the same degree. That's the subsidy.

That's a NO. So in essence the 7:1 difference is the cost of the risk you faced going to state Uni.

If Unilag is upgraded to have similar conducive environment & risk of strike eliminated - be rest assured that it would command more premium than Redeemers.

larride:
The strike is part of what you get. My own 4yrs was 4yrs even though ASUU strike for 6 month while I was in school.

My school opted out of ASUU strike being a state uni. Even this last strike, my school didnt partake in it.

Chairman I get it wasnt your reality, but humour me; If you spent 7yrs instead of 4yrs due to strike would you still consider it subsidized? Or accord any value to the subsidy?

raumdeuter:
Yes I would still consider it subsidized.

If a contractor tells you that this house in Banana Island that would cost 900M but finished in 1yr, It will cost you 200M but finished in 2yrs because I will use less manpower As long as the quality is comparable

Will you consider it subsidized?

Surely Davido will pay the 900M and get it sooner

Seems like apples and oranges here, but to answer your question No, that extra 1year is a risk; the 700M is insurance/compensation for my taking the risk, compensation for delaying my enjoyment of the asset; developer fit put my N200M into some maad yielding scheme, flip it over n number of times within 1year to still deliever my property in year 2 and turn profit.

larride:
Anybody arguing that our school is not subsidized just want to argue for arguing sake.

If you spent 7yrs instead of 4yrs due to strike would you still consider it subsidized? Or accord any value to the subsidy?

raumdeuter:
None of these affect what they are taught in school. Kids in Private Uni also give people and carry belle. Its not like they are sterilized. There are some public Unis who dont even strike that much, In my time Unilag and Unilorin no dey too strike

Also some will argue that in Private Uni they are treated like secondary students and not like adults, even though personally I will take that trade off to graduate early

At the end the quality of Private Uni are not significantly better or 10times better than public Uni in the job market where they all head to

Agreed to an extent that those factor do not affect what they are taught in school, but it is an important factor for you to make your decision to send your child private, so hence your willingness to pay the premium.

Segedinho:
Schools responsibilities is showering you with what you need to excel and in quality.

If Uniben teaches me fortran on blackboard and covenant uses the ideal equipment..wch do you think is better and why?

Education is different in this case cos you have to pay externally to get the full knowledge if you ain't given the best atmosphere.

What you learn from the mouth of the lectural who seldom visits will easily be discarded than what you learn with practical...

If I am expected to stress more or pay externally to acquire first hand practical intelligence to what B University is offering me then I don't think it is wise to compare my financial expenditure with B..
.

B is offering me everything I need in education (essay and practical)and Uniben gave just d essay part of it. How do I call my school subsidised??.

Anyway.....I don't think there is any financial yardstick to show if my school with no basic amenities is subsidied,partially subsidised or not.

So....i am indecisive

You missed out an important risk that your 4yrs course could be 6/7yrs so the difference in private Uni is the cost of mitigating that Risk.

raumdeuter:
If I have a child and has to study in Nigeria I will also do a private Uni cos of few reasons.
1 is the strike. No strike and calendar is predictable.
2. The Hostels that dont look like refuse dump
3. There is likely to be a higher concentration of elite children in the school which might expose the child beyond what they teach in classes

The most important reason is that I can afford it, If I cannot afford it, no matter how smart my kid is, He would go to public Uni

Like I said even if private uni grads is better(which is arguable) are they better at the ratio of school fees difference

So if school fees is ratio 10:1 and quality is 3:1, the difference of 7 is due to subsidy

I would then argue 3 bolded are exactly what makes up the difference of 7, they are why you are paying 10x. It is then subjective if they are worth 10x, To most parents who can afford it, it is worth it over Govt Uni, so yeah public Uni are paying exactly what they are getting...

I would say the risk of extra 2years on same course, due to strike wey pikin fit carry belle or give someone belle, feeding ati bebelo is worth more than 10x.

larride:
C.O.A.S - Yoruba

I.G.P - Yoruba

Customs - Yoruba

Immigration - Yoruba[b]

Yorubanization[/b] 😂

Una sha like trouble when the other start with Tribal ish this place go scatter - when discerning mind knows these appointments by Tinubu was aimed at protecting himself and discouraging any possible Hausa Fulani Military parapo; same thing OBJ did - clue is in the Brigade of Guards & Military Installations near ABJ.

Same thing with Apkabio getting the Senate.

larride:
Baba sha no wan pay tax. 😂

Nooo naa I dey pay steady; right from the times of Jesus - people don dey complain about paying tax, but imagine if your are paying 45% tax and Sirika pulled such stunt; na the ruling class and elite no dey too pay tax (which is what needs to change, in the UK 300k people out of tax paying population of 31Million pay 33% of entire tax) My arguement is your average joe in Naija who earns enough to actually pay tax tends to whether officially or unofficially...

We suppose to request public declaration of annual tax paid by our political office holders and would be aspirants sha.

nihilistjnr:
Bruh I don't know if you read what I wrote or even know how to read.



The tax you pay for healthcare as NI contributions is separate to what you pay as Personal Income Tax.

The tax you pay to maintain roads in the UK is council tax, which is different to the tax you pay to drive on the same road which is road tax.

You inherit property, you pay inheritance tax. You sell the property, you pay Capital Gains Tax.

That's at least 6 different taxes that you pay as an individual in the UK.

You now want to compare that to a country where 72% of all employed eligible taxpayers did not give the federal government a single kobo in tax in 2018.

Where is the funding for healthcare supposed to come from? The sky?

Tax is a highly emotive subject; I just paid CGT with all deductible + small jara still ended up paying around 20% even though I am Non UK domiciled cos I sold off an apartment I bought many years ago due to too much wahala and how it complicates my tax filing here. I am also very annoyed at having to pay for private health insurance in the country I live now when I have paid atleast 2 decades of NI contributions.

I take most data coming out about Nigeria with a pinch of salt; look again at the bolded statement and tell me how it adds up? Is it a failure of govt to collect it from the identified 72% or perharps it was collected unofficially (state inland revenue /state actors collected but dem no remit or the figure is a mere extrapolation based on the adult population?

nihilistjnr:
This is one reason why politicians don't mind stealing money. There isn't enough in the kitty to do anything useful without borrowing. Nigerians have low expectations so they don't pay tax. That suits the thieves just fine as they can loot in peace without having to honour a social contract

Apart from being heartless scumbags, they steal because they can without any serious consequences, you mean the 85billion naira wasted on the Nigerian Airways scam would not do anything useful...

Ibime:
Council tax

We have council tax in lagos naa; I think it is called Tenement rate collected by the Local government or something.

If we add all these unofficial taxes Nigerians might be paying more tax than their equivalent in the Uk ( dont shoot me )
Lower income earners are largely tax exempt including other afforded benefits whereas their equivalents in Naija are paying all sort of unofficialand official taxes, anybody remember PTA levy? WAEC fees?

nihilistjnr:
I'm saying one thing, you're saying another.

1.You asked what the Government does with taxes paid

2. I retorted by asking you how much Nigerians pay in income tax

And then you started talking about omonile.

Before you start to ask questions about standard of living in other countries, you first have to ask about how much the Government has to even spend in the first place.

That's why I gave the example of the UK where there is NI tax at up to 12% of your income, PAYE tax at up to 45% of your income, Council tax paid on the value of your house, Road Tax for your car, you can't even watch TV in your house without paying tax in the form of annual TV licence.

Infrastructure will not build itself. You cannot expect FG to subsidise cost of living in every sector whilst expecting taxation levels to stay low...and that's not even accounting for corruption.

This is what has to be done. Not cutting the cost of any stüpid governance that in the grand scheme of things is really a small portion of FG expenditure.

You are one conflating the issues...
Nigerians pay tax, and I opined that they pay alot more in relation to what they get back from the ruling class.

The 45% Tax you listed paid in the UK gets you good health care and good roads and education system, whereas a banker in Nigeria earning 12M per annum will pay still pay tax maybe 20% but will spend probably easily spend another 30% of their income on school fees and healthcare for their family.

Also majority of taxes is being paid by the Top 10%; and only 56% of the UK populations pay tax.. as you are afforded £12600 tax free income, such measures means majority of lower income are excluded, and what about all the social protections offered by their govt?

I still insist that we should focus on removing the inefficiencies by cutting out waste and corruption, and we would amazed what we can achieve... I believe you are aware that we wasted N85bn on Nigerian Airways - like $100Million is nothing is scheme of thing? Not even considering how many more of these exist...

GloriousGbola:
You are calling nihilist, a bleeding heart liberal capitalist? Most of us here are liberal. The only hardcore right winger shoot em first ask questions later good guy with an rpg is my man raumdeuter.

we have seen and experienced directly that these policies are not working.

When my dad graduated med school in the 70s,he got a national scholarship to UK straight. Everyone was getting them then. That has gone. Would you also say that because my old man got a pg scholarship I should also have demanded one when I graduated?

The reality of Nigeria has changed. It is not coming back. Almost Everything run by the govt has failed. We can change or we can continue

Hahaha not referring to Nihilist per say, but una version of liberal dey fear me oo.

And yes I agree that the reality of Nigeria has changed, you see where we came from and the beneficiaries are giving us this and we are suppose to applaud?

I would rather we increase taxes and ensure all these elites pay taxes and use that to increase education funding, hopefully then they would be forced to call out the ruling class and ask questions on how their tax money in being spent.

You think people will be this docile if 45% of their income is being deducted and the ruling class is spending it on jollification?

raumdeuter:
Did Awolowo or anyone ever provide free Tertiary education

Chief, l have already agreed that we cannot go back to what was obtainable in the 60/70's but Universal Basic education then is equivalent of Tertiary education now. Majority of jobs that are being done now by graduates where done the by these people.

larride:
But they say they are fighting for students all those times they were on strike now. 😂

Yes oo just the way we Nigerians are the ones always begging our politicians for dem to come and lead...

You think Unilag, UI and others won't charge a higher premium than the most expensive private Uni? Make we dey watch...

nihilistjnr:
Lol how much Tax do Nigerians pay?

I remember asking one ediot on this thread how much he paid in income tax this year, when he took offence to the idea that FG is subsidising sectors it can't afford to, and he couldn't answer...because he didn't know.

Bro, infrastructure is not free. In the UK, we pay NI tax which can reach up to 12% of your annual salary, matched by employer contributions, to cover the NHS and Social Benefit schemes. This is separate to Personal Income tax that can see the government take as much as 45% of your annual salary as their cut.

And that's not including taxation on other streams of income, or sometimes not even income. For example, if your father dies, and leaves you a house worth 500k, you will deduct 325k threshold from the house and pay 40% of the 175k to the government in inheritance tax, and nobody cares if you don't have it.

If you sell the house for 600k, you will pay 18% Capital Gains Tax on the 100k profit

In America, where health care isn't free, woe betide you if you don't have health insurance. I'll let the yanks on here tell you their experience.

Brah, when you hear Nigerians laughing about diasporans vomiting credit and tax in the West, its because the Nigerian standard of living is nothing go write home about. The instant you want improved quality of life, you have to pay...often through the nose.

I would say Nigerians pay alot of taxes in comparison to the value received from the ruling class.

Chief I have lived in both North America and Europe including the UK, and like you I hate taxes but I pay and still complain, but overall I know and see they effect of my taxes on society even some I dont agree with.

The above you listed are direct known taxes, Naija own na tax by stealth, and by god they are many... abeg whats your UK equivalent of Cof O? Or Omo Onile?

Chief we are all know the outcome of this journey? Increase in tuition and more debt on the student (poor) it is not worth being celebrated.

Its like am the only one against this - na pure capitalist una be.
The UK and US student are clamouring for reprieve, my daughter and her fellow students voted overwhelming for labour due to their promise to remove University tuition. When tuition was introduced its started like £1k now its closer to £9,000.

larride:
The major problem of the US student loan is the ridiculous interest.

This one is actually interest free, which means you only pay back the money borrowed, no accrued interest.

You think this is gonna be interest free for long? Just dey play... SoP is that you will start paying with interest after 2yrs of graduating.

larride:
But this is exactly what ASUU has been clamoring for. This means each university can charge fees they consider is enough for their infrastructural development and lecturer welfare. It will basically eliminate poor lecturer welfare and decrepit infrastructure.

Whose interest is ASUU representing? Lecturers. Who is going to be left with debt? Students.

GloriousGbola:
Even Awolowo did not push for universal tertiary education. He pushed for universal basic education.

I follow naptu2 and there is something he alludes to. A lot of us are mentally stuck in the 70s when Gowon said the problem is not money but how to spend it. So now we think there is unlimited money. This was also Buharis thinking which is why he jumped and promoted multiple unviable projects. This would have been fine in the 70s but not today.

The irony is that Tinubu may now adopt some cost cutting measures you may be among the first to call him wicked. The civil service is bloated. Are you ready for a mass retrenchment starting from the well paid and underemployed Kaduna refinery workers?

Imagine if Awo had then said no need for basic universal education because we majorly survived without it; so it is not for everybody.

That the beneficiaries of the best the country could offer are those turing around to do this and are being appluaded to me is us being shortsighted.

That the refinery staff is underemployed is govt fault; and because we keep voting and appluading stupid decisions by people in govt; years ago I working for a coy that was restructuring it business, guess what they govt ensured they provided for retraining of staff to acquire skill in now booming construction industry, if we had thinkers in Buhari govt - those NNPC guys will be the 1st call to be retrained for Dangote's refinery; releasing them from govt payroll and also them being gainfully employed and paying taxes so win win for the govt.

raumdeuter:
Why shouldn't we applaud a move that makes education available to poor students who desire it, have the intellect for it but don't have the money for it

This less privileged are complaining about not being able to access quality education and govt is providing them a loan scheme without interest and we still say it's bad. Then What will qualify as good enough?


If there is a scheme that provides loans to business men with Interest should that also not be applauded because it puts loans on you

The EU you mentioned, can you show any EU country with free education and has our income per head?

How much do we generate and divided by our population

Lets not turn this to income per head argument or comparison cos we don't have reputable data for Naija.

How Nigeria was able to afford to provide quality education then was mainly due to less corruption and wastage... Spending our national income on the people; hence Awo was able to provide free education.

Less priviledge complaining on cost of education being N100k and you turn around saying well solution is your cost is now 1Million but don't worry you dont have to pay now - you will pay in the future, how is that a good deal?

Your colleagues that took student loans in the US, are they not complaining?

afrodoc:
Student Union should protest against a bill that gives students access to student loans?

Yes, if they take their time to look at the complaints of their fellow students in US or UK on the impact of such loans, then add the Naija environment to it, they should be out on the street protesting.

GloriousGbola:
None of us who went to public primary or secondary schools are sending our children to same because they have gone to shit. In the same way no one with the means will send their kids to public universities if they have the means. The last recruitment exercise we did, was 95% covenant

You want to continue on this path, 90% of the graduates will only be fit for security guard jobs. It is already happening. We had an engineering grad working as a site laborer for a contractor. Some of us took pity on the guy and had him absorbed as a contract field guy. Big mistake. The guy could not write coherent English, could not grasp the simplest concepts. We had to let him go. The best the public uni grads got was contract jobs. In the future if we do not course correct the situation between university and poly grads will be replaced by private uni and public uni grads in the workspace.

The fact that something was available in our time does not mean it is sustainable. I am sure we can all remember the squalor of university hostels. Bush attack etc. A lot of energy expended in pursuits that will not add to your future competence.

Chief, you just alluded to the rut in the Nigerian system; enabled by the ruling class.

So are we going to apply this to the health sector too?
What exactly is our tax and income from oil and others being used for? especially seeing that most infrastructure is being built either by borrowing or PPP.

Increase in cost to the end user does not neccesary mean better quality.

afrodoc:
If it was Pitobi that was presido and signed this bill we would have been reading things like, "Oh i have tears in my eyes now. Such a wonderful and much needed bill signed by my President. A man of the people who has love for the youths and their interests at heart."

That is because the average Nigerian is not ready, we don't look out for the majority and are too blinded by religious, tribal or party affiliations, especially when we view we are not impacted negatively.

That such a bill is being signed without robust protest and challenge by civil society including student union is a crying shame..

raumdeuter:
Time has changed and we change with time. There was a time a whole town had 3 University graduate when they were serving 3 course meals in University and even had people washing clothes for students and every graduate in Nigeria was given a car at graduation. Should we insist on that now when each family has more graduates than some villages. since some people enjoyed it back then

When they enjoyed free Tertiary education how many students were in Nigerian university totally? Can we reduce the total University student population to those time when it was free so we can enjoy the free education now

US has not fully implemented student loan cancelation and EU that has free tuition pay up to 50% in taxes

No, am not saying go back to those times, but please let's not appluad this as something nice when in effect is a debt overhang on the less priviledge.

The EU you mentioned is exactly what govt should be doing, except in Nigeria our taxes and incomes are spent feeding the ruling class and not the masses.

afrodoc:
That 500k maximum family income is too low.

So if father makes 21k per month and mother makes 21k per month their child won't qualify for the academic loan?
They should lift the bar to 1m maximum family income. A family making 80k per month in this present Nigeria should be able to benefit from the academic loan too.

The loan doesn't make sense, putting a limit is discriminatory and does not take into account the reality of Nigerian situation where large family is the norm, and especially when we all agree that this is in preparation for the increase in cost of Tertiary education.

raumdeuter:
Another Abroadian who is disconnected from Nigerian reality who want evil for people

Chief, The reality in Nigeria means that the peoole will be improverished. This set of people enjoyed free education of decent standard upto Tertiary level (some even got free accomodation and feeding at Uni) instead of us putting them to task to provide the same of this generation of young people and the next we are instead applauding them for a policy that seeks to put them in debt; even in US govt has been cancelling student debt; in the EU Tertiary education is free in most countries.

It feels like we are pulling up the ladder after we used it to climb.

GloriousGbola:
The subsidy represents a parallel market where fuel is sold at x dollars in Nigeria and 3x dollars outside Nigeria. As long as this persists there will never be accurate fuel consumption numbers because a person can literally make millions in a trip moving a truck to the border. He is buying at n1 and selling at n3 or greater.as a naija matter all he needs to do is identify the ogas that need to be settled and he is good to go.

On a lower scale we have pump meter manipulation where a pump is adjusted to read 21 - 22 litres for every 20 litres. Dealers can literally kill you if you get in the way. And they are settling dpr, corporate, and Co.

Now multiply that money and tell me what you think will happen.

You have not addressed my questions, everybody knows that subsidized PMS is being smuggled across the border - which is a govt failure? We speak as if govt agencies are not active participants and enablers of this scam, we are speaking about truckload of PMS not some 50 litre gallons being sped across border line on motorbikes.

The core of my question is are we saying we want to remove subsidy so that PMS price reflect international prices? Leaving it to market forces? Full deregulation

Cos what we have right now is NNPCL annoucing a price; being sole importer whilst a govt agency is still regulating price cos Dangote will come on stream and nothing or very little will change, me and you know that N511 is not international price except using govt FX rate, which based on Kyari is what is happening? So in essence we are still subsidising FX, if not we should be looking at N800 per litre..

I see from your previous submission that PMS had been subsidized since the 70's when we had better public transport system and electricity compared to now, the only reason PMS subsidy is an issue is a failure of govt to curb abuse and corruption surrounding it.

Chief - we cannot seriously be saying that a country that produce IT unicorns cannot find solution to curb this problem; Mr. Kyari I heard speak is a smart guy that if genuine and given honest political backing, or anybody else who is genuine would fix - this is my biggest dissapointment with Buhari, but like everything Nigeria we always go for the shortcut...

GloriousGbola:
The more we delay ending the subsidy the worse it will be. This is like cancer that has metastasized. It will be difficult and painful to remove, but the more we delay, the harder it will be.

There will never be a good time to remove the subsidy. The best time would have been the Obj years when money was flowing. Now there is no fking money.

Chief I am surprised at your submission seeing that I view your as someone with more knowledge of the industry... Subsidy is not removed when we have NNPC as sole importer and govt agency determining the price....

People seem to be missing the point; are we saying Nigeria should be paying international equivalent market rate for PMS lets start from here? make we start here first, cos I don't get all this talk about having subsidy equating to people not ready for Nigeria to develop, most of us studied under subsidized education am guessing it should apply to education too, and probably health naa.

Coz this seem to me like that standard scam govt dey run, where they will now climb down to N250 per litre as new price with promise of putting things in place to totally remove subsidy in future...

Leaving us back to square1 where we don't have genuine figures of what subsidy was paid to whom or genuine consumption figures as per the NLC chairman's interview.