₦airaland Forum

Segeggs: @italo

the churches were one but in different geographical locations.

God ministered to the apostles to write the NT just as He did to the prophet concerning the OT. I Believe He did that so as to provide us with a guide. Its just fortunate,if at all, that the RCC compiled NT and added it to the OT

Point of correction: The Catholic Church, under the leadership of the pope and with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, compiled the Bible. This was done infallibly (i.e., without error).

Segeggs: i dont understand you

What don't you understand? If you followed this thread from page 1, you will find the Biblical and/or theological answers to why Catholics practice some of the things you find objectionable. Just because you find them objectionable does not mean it is anti-biblical or contrary to sacred Church tradition.

Segeggs: we as protestants accept that there are false protestants among us. But i wonder why catholics cant admit the gross paganism in them?

Simple: We don't think it anti-biblical or go against sacred traditions (i.e., veneration of saints or sacramentals)...rather, come directly from the Church.

Freksy: Those devotional things you or your leaders do whenever you or they stand, kneel, sit, lie etc before an image or images fall under the heading of 'worship'. The worshiper doe not need to tell the worshed saying: "I am worshiping you, before the act is termed, 'worship'". Prayer is a form of worship, did you know? The pictures you see above this post are pictorial representations of what am trying to paint.

The reason they give you for honoring /worshiping Mary makes me begging to feel Elizabeth, the mother of John, the baptizer of Jesus did not do the will of God.

Omenuko, if you were to choose between the teachings of the Catholic Church and those of the Bible about Mary and Jesus, which would you go for?

Nevertheless, if you know you love your life and future, let nothing hold you back from acting swiftly on the following:

"And I heard another voice from heaven , saying , Come out of her, my people , that ye be not partakers of her sins , and that ye receive not of her plagues . For her sins have reached unto heaven , and God hath remembered her iniquities ". Rev. 18:4 - 5.

I see, so if we use you definition of worship:

Those devotional things you or your leaders do whenever you or they stand, kneel, sit, lie etc before an image or images fall under the heading of 'worship'

Then the mere fact of standing and holding one's hand to the chest to salute the flag during the singing of the national anthem is worship (i.e., worshiping the national flag - idol worship)...the act of performing the yoruba doba'le or the east asian bow to a person is an act of worship (i.e., worshiping individuals - worshiping man)...the act of kneeling, kissing, or even touching royalty or esteemed individuals is worship (i.e., worshiping earthly kings). Surely, your definition of worship is too broad, because by merely giving respect or honor to anything, idea, or person will fall into your category of worship.

Can you please expand on how the Bible declares all of the above, including your assessment of catholic veneration, as sinful.

jaymichael: you pray in front of a statue, you adore a statue, you honour a statue, and you say you dont worship that statue.. tell me now what is worship?

Please define what is meant by worship.

peteregwu: u are absolutely wrong and u are misleading your gullible members, by misconstruing the bible. read the passage below carefully and not be double minded about it.
Exodus 20:3-5 KJV
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me. [4] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: [5] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

the bible says, 1. dont make the images of any kind claiming to be anyone or representing anynody. 2. dont bow to them.
this is very simple to understand, you dont even need a pastor to teach you, as simple as abc.
now, i have worshipped in catholic before..they worship mary, pray to mary and use chaplets or rosary to pray like muslims, is this not abomination before God. denying the Lordship of Jesus and embracing the Lordship of mary(satan indirectly).

Matthew 1:21 KJV
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
Jesus is the only one that forgives and takes away, i is no mary. mary was a creating being and she is dead. even all the prophets are dead and no more liv at the moment. but Jesus is never a created being, He is the one that created me and you an everything in existence. Jesus died and the third day ressurected for our justification...and He is alive forever. so, what comparison or equality does mary has with Jesus. Jesus is God and who is mary? mary is just a human being like me and u.

The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is to be worshiped because he is God. The Church also teaches that the Blessed Virgin Mary is to be honored because she did the will of God. Note: Jesus is God and Mary is a created being. Please provide Church teaching where it states we should worship Mary.

ijawkid: Now you say I'm speculating after going through those scriptures .............Elijah did not visit the heavens..he did not visit anybody or thing...Elijah simply was transfered through the atmosphere(the atmosphere a.k.a heaven in that verse was the medium of transportation ) .....can't you just understand this simple basic truth??.........like I said earlier keep contravening Jesus' words and the whole bible.........

My aim here is to stand by Jesus' words and the rest of the scriptures that says no man hath ascended into the heavens(where God resides)...I don't know what your aim is........

You still have not done your job. Please, show me where in the Bible it says Elijah visited heaven and then was transported back to earth? Thanks.

frosbel

Luke 22:19
New International Version (NIV)
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

"23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes" - 1 Corinthians 11:23-26

First of all , eating the bread and drinking the wine was a way of :

1. Remembering the sacrifice of Jesus
2. Proclaiming his death


The Catholic church has demonically usurped this biblical position by insisting and wresting violently these precious truths to mean that Jesus Christ is called down from heaven , his body is eaten and his blood drank by the faithful. The implication is that he has to be sacrificed over and over again, the Priests also have more power than Christ because they actually can , by some miracle, change the bread into the actual Jesus.

This is the stuff of occultism and is demonic through and through , worshiping a wafer god is BLASPHEMY !!!

I see through your clever tactic of not answering my question. Where in the Bible does it say Elijah visited heaven and then was transported back to earth? Thanks.

ijawkid: What have I not proven??.........

let me re-quote the verse again.....

New International Version
(©2011)
As they were walking along and
talking together, suddenly a
chariot of fire and horses of fire
appeared and separated the two
of them, and Elijah went up to
heaven in a whirlwind.
______________________________
Have I not from the scriptures explained wht the heaven there means.....you are programmed to believe that heaven must always mean where Gods abode(or where Jesus came from)...........we've also quoted from the scriptures that Elijah after that incidence wrote a letter to Jehoram,the king of Judah....all this,to prove that he was just simply transported to another location here on earth through the whirl wind......oya read am:::
________________________________
2 Chronicles 21:12-15
New International Version (NIV)

12 Jehoram received a letter from Elijah the
prophet, which said:
“This is what the LORD, the God of your
father David, says: ‘You have not followed the
ways of your father Jehoshaphat or of Asa
king of Judah. 13 But you have followed the
ways of the kings of Israel, and you have led
Judah and the people of Jerusalem to
prostitute themselves, just as the house of
Ahab did. You have also murdered your own
brothers, members of your own family, men
who were better than you. 14 So now the
LORD is about to strike your people, your
sons, your wives and everything that is yours,
with a heavy blow. 15 You yourself will be very
ill with a lingering disease of the bowels, until
the disease causes your bowels to come out.’
_______________________________


.......coupled with the clear words of Jesus I just don't know how you stubbornly choose to stick to the shaky fact that elijah went to stay with God in heaven,there by contradiciting the whole bible and also the factual words of Jesus..............

Why not say the Bible doesn't say Elijah was taken to heaven and then transported to earth. All this you are typing is speculation. I'll ask my question again. Where in the Bible does it say Elijah visited heaven and then was transported back to earth? Thanks.

ijawkid: You see yourself..........they are not with God.......Jesus did not see them in heaven before descending....can't you just agree with that even if it is so hard for you??............

Keep lying to yourself and arguing with Jesus who came down from heaven.......

I'll ask my question again. Where in the Bible does it say Elijah visited heaven and then was transported back to earth? Thanks.

ijawkid: You see yourself..........they are not with God.......Jesus did not see them in heaven before descending....can't you just agree with that even if it is so hard for you??............

Keep lying to yourself and arguing with Jesus who came down from heaven.......

I cannot agree with your personal interpretation because it is contrary to scripture and tradition. I'm not arguing with Jesus, I'm disputing your claims, which you have yet to prove with evidence from scripture.

ijawkid: Where did they die??...where??.......in heaven abi??.....did they experience any ressurection ??.....

I do not know...All I know is that Enoch and Elijah are with God, as the Bible states. Anything else is speculation.

frosbel: what about the wafer god ? You know, the one that supposedly turns into the real Jesus each time you eat him, even though Jesus Christ has been offered ONCE and for all ?

John 6:53-59 states:

Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Direct from Jesus' mouth.

and if you revere Jesus, why do you also pray to his mother and dead saints, something never commanded in the bible ?

Because the church teaches that those who die in God's favor are not dead, rather are alive, even more so. In addition, the church teaches that the prayers of a righteous man availith much. As such, we ask those who are in God's favor to pray for us through Jesus.

James 5:15 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

frosbel: Come to the real Jesus !

If you didn't know by now, Jesus Christ is my God. So, I am as close to him as one can be. Thanks.

ijawkid: And yours is divine interpretations abi??.....and your theory of assumption stems from where??...from Jesus??.....your theory negates the basic truth that all have sinned and would experience death.......saying the likes of elijah,and enoch were assumed into heaven to live there is tantamount to saying that those men are more important than Jesus who died and was ressurected before his ascension..........

Elijah did not go to any heaven.....elijah was transferred to another location on earth........

Elijah experienced death and is in the ground awaiting reSsurection.......Jesus' words are so clear.....NO MAN has ascended into heaven....gulp in this basic truth....

Romans 5:14

##New International Version
(©2011)
Nevertheless, death reigned from
the time of Adam to the time of
Moses, even over those who did
not sin by breaking a command, as
did Adam, who is a pattern of the
one to come.

##New Living Translation (©2007)
Still, everyone died--from the
time of Adam to the time of
Moses--even those who did not
disobey an explicit commandment
of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is
a symbol, a representation of
Christ, who was yet to come.
_____________________________

If you like exempt the likes of elijah and enoch from romans 5:14.......

Or you can as well assume elijah died in the heavens he was assumed into...........

Once again Jesus is correct while you and your ilks are WRONG.....

Did I say Enoch or Elijah did not die, so why divert the topic? Please, show me in the Bible where it states Elijah visited heaven and then was transported back to earth. Thanks.

frosbel: Can you explain this short YouTube below :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mz9RNfZ12Y

The hype and scare tactics are unneeded.

frosbel: .

You have done immense violence to this scripture to support your heresies.

Besides, there is NO MAN who did not DIE.

ALL MEN DIED, and Jesus Christ is the first born from the dead.

My statement has not been declared heresy by any church. But to believe that saints and others who die in God's favor are dead and have no interaction with God, is in fact heresy by all christian churches. You do right to say Jesus Christ is the first born from the dead.

If you too believe as ijawkid that Elijah visited heaven and then was transported back to earth, please show me where scripture states as such.

ijawkid: _____________________________
Na which heaven be this one wey birds dey fly??.....is it the heaven God resides and which Jesus came(descended) from or the earths atmosphere(air,clouds etc)...??........

Simple:::::......elijah was transported through earths atmosphere to another location on the earth...........Elijah did not go to and live in the heavens where Jesus came from......

I just don't know why you guys choose to be stiff necked .........Jesus said no man has ascended into the heavens...can't you for once concur with Jesus' words even though most times its an anthema to you guys??..............

For you to make such unfounded interpretations as fact, without any evidence is very illogical. The most you can say is that the Bible says 1+1=2, and tradition holds that 4-2=2, therefore I believe (your individual interpretation. Note: I cannot say the Bible states/teaches) x, y, and z. No where in the Bible does it say "Elijah was transported through earths atmosphere to another location on earth." Nor does the Bible state that "Elijah did not go to and live in the heavens where Jesus came from." These are all personal interpretations.

frosbel: The Romans obviously do not believe the words of Jesus when he said :


"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." - John 3:13

I still don't understand how this quote contradicts the fact that there are saints in heaven. The traditional understanding of this passage (i.e., John 3:13) is that Jesus was the only one who ascended into heaven (under his own power as God). The others (e.g., Enoch, Elijah, Moses, and others), of course, did not go to heaven under their own power. They were assumed into heaven by the power of God. The main difference here is that Jesus ascended into heaven through his own power and others were assumed into heaven by the power of God. Ascension and assumption are two different things. That is the traditional/historic understanding of John 3:13.

For one to accept your interpretation of 2 Kings 2:15-17, one would have to twist scripture to such an extent it would render it useless. I believe there is no traditional interpretations of that passage that is even close to you and yours (i.e., Jehovah's Witness and 7th Day Adventist). This is the first I'm hearing of such unscriptural interpretations of that passage and of the afterlife for those who die in God's favor in general.

ijawkid: Where in that verse suggests that elijah lived in heaven??....

Abi them be tie Jesus eye with wrapper so as not to see elijah for heaven before him descend??...........

Let us repeat Jesus" words again from john 3:13...

"No one has ascended into heaven, but He
who descended from heaven: the Son of
Man." - John 3:13

Guy, I really don't understand your question. Do you mean to say that Elijah visited heaven and then was transported back to earth? If so, show me where scripture says that.

frosbel: Read scriptures carefully and with great patience.

Elijah was transported to a different location , he did not go to heaven for as Jesus said :

"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." - John 3:13

Now, it is worth noting that neither Elisha nor the people with him thought for a moment that Elijah was in heaven, they were fully aware that he had been relocated.

"15 The company of the prophets from Jericho, who were watching, said, “The spirit of Elijah is resting on Elisha.” And they went to meet him and bowed to the ground before him. 16 “Look,” they said, “we your servants have fifty able men. Let them go and look for your master. Perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has picked him up and set him down on some mountain or in some valley.”

“No,” Elisha replied, “do not send them.”

17 But they persisted until he was too embarrassed to refuse. So he said, “Send them.” And they sent fifty men, who searched for three days but did not find him. 18 When they returned to Elisha, who was staying in Jericho, he said to them, “Didn’t I tell you not to go?” - 2 Kings 2:15-17

Where in scripture does it say Elijah was transported to another place, other then heaven? Scripture doesn't even imply such a thing occurred. Please enlighten me on how you came to this conclusion? Is this understanding from your church's tradition or is it based on the Bible? When I read 2 Kings 2:15-17 alongside Matthew 17:1-9 and 2 Peter 1:16-18 I come to the understanding that Elijah is in heaven. In addition, this understanding matches with the traditional understanding.

The bible clearly states that Elijah was taken to heaven. If you disagree, please show me using scripture why that understanding is wrong.

ijawkid: if you had read the scriptures well you would have found out that after that taking up into heaven incident elijah still was serving as a prophet and sending messages to his servant....was he sending those messages from the very heavens Jesus descended from??....

when it is said that enoch and elijah were taken up into heaven what you should have asked is"""WHICH HEAVEN.....??

always look at all the points before you establish a fact...Jesus has told us the truth..that when he descended he saw no person who had ascended at anytime into heaven.....

I'm not sure if you need comprehension skills, but I will ask my question again. Where are they? How did Elijah continue to send messages to his servant after he was taken up to heaven. Are you suggesting that Elijah continued to communicate with the living after God took him?

Further, it seems like you are insinuating that they are in fact in heaven, and seem to suggest that there are multiple heavens. If that's the case, how many heavens are there? And if they are in any one of the heavens and continue to communicate with the living, does this not conflict with your initial argument that they are dead and have no interaction with anything or anyone?

ijawkid: Besides elijah, and moses were not born agains,so I wonder what they shoud be doing in heaven as at the time when Jesus was on earth......people should learn to read there bibles complete............

If Elijah and Moses are not in heaven, where are they? In 2 Kings 2:1-11 it states:

When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal...As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

Does this bible scripture not plainly state that Elijah was taken up to heaven? In addition, it is also believed that Enoch was also taken to heaven, which can be read from Genesis 5:22:

And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters. And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years. And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Although Church tradition holds that Moses is also with God in heaven, which is attested to in Matthew 17:1-9 and from Jewish tradition, there is no explicit scripture that states that God took him. In any event, where did God take Elijah and Enoch, if not heaven?

ijawkid: And yes they were not in heaven neither were they hanging around somewhere other than there graves.......

John 3:13....
_______________________________
New Living Translation (©2007)
No one has ever gone to heaven
and returned. But the Son of Man
has come down from heaven.

English Standard Version
(©2001)
No one has ascended into heaven
except he who descended from
heaven, the Son of Man.
________________________________

I think this supports Jesus' words that what happened at the transfiguration was a vision....

I very much think you need to review those passages once more...we have in Matthew 17:1-9 a discussion of Jesus and three of his apostles going to a mountain (the Mount of Transfiguration). On the mountain, Jesus begins to shine with bright rays of light. Then the prophets Moses and Elijah appear next to him and he speaks with them. Jesus is then called "Son" by a voice in the sky, assumed to be God the Father, as in the Baptism of Jesus. Following this, Jesus then warns his apostles to tell no one until he (Jesus) is risen from the dead. I don't understand how you gather that this is a vision.

In saying vision, I assume you to mean that it did not actually happen. That you believe it was a fantasy or dream of sorts. If you believe it to be a fantasy or dream, why would God show these three men, Moses and Elijah speaking with Jesus? And why would God specifically manifest this to the Peter, James and John.

To further reveal that this was in fact a real event Peter goes on to write about this experience in 2 Peter 1:16-18...

For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but [size=15pt]we were eyewitnesses of his majesty[/size]. He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” [size=15pt]We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven[/size] when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

From the above Peter clearly states that he was an eyewitness to the event or majesty discussed in Matthew 17:1-9 and heard the voice of God. How can you then say it was a vision. Peter even begins this passage by saying he and others are not easily disposed to false stories, of which I would include dreams or fantasies or even visions. I'm happy you ended you post by saying you think...Because what you think is very much so contrary to the traditional interpretation of the transfiguration.

frosbel: I think it's healthy to go back to the bible rather than use my own words

"When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust" - Psalm 104:29

Job 10:9 Remember that you molded me like clay. Will you now turn me to dust again?

Job 34:14 - 15 If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, all humanity would perish together and mankind would return to the dust.

I see you managed to do the same the shdemidemi did. Scripture does not interpret its self. Please interpret what this means and answer my original question, namely:

So just to be clear...your argument is that Moses and Elijah are not in heaven or rather did not actually meet Jesus. Instead, are dead and have not interaction with anything or anyone (including God). Is that correct?

shdemidemi: 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
King James Version (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Thanks...but, posting scripture with no explanation does no one justice. Do you mind interpreting what this means? I'll ask you the same question I posed to frosbel, which is:

So just to be clear...your argument is that Moses and Elijah are not in heaven or rather did not actually meet Jesus. Instead, are dead and have not interaction with anything or anyone (including God). Is that correct?

frosbel: I am sure the translators knew what Jesus meant by vision hence it's inclusion.

If jesus called it a vision I belive

him.

Who do you believe?

So just to be clear...your argument is that Moses and Elijah are not in heaven or rather did not actually meet Jesus. Instead, are dead and have not interaction with anything or anyone (including God). Is that correct?

frosbel: ^^^
"As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead." - Matthew 17:9

Definition of vision ( in context ):
an experience of seeing someone or something in a dream or trance, or as a supernatural apparition:
the idea came to him in a vision

(often visions) a vivid mental image, especially a fanciful one of the future:
he had visions of becoming the Elton John of his time

Oxford Dictionary Source

How can this be a vision when Peter, himself, confirms what he heard and saw in 2 Peter 1:16-18...

16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there was borne such a voice to him by the Majestic Glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased:

18 and this voice we [ourselves] heard borne out of heaven, when we were with him in the holy mount.

ITISTRUE:
so venerating dead bones and a skull is fine with you 

Although it may not appeal to my sensibilities to venerate dead bones of saints, I do not see anything wrong with it as along as it ultimately leads people to Christ. Similarly, the way Yoruba people prostrate and bow to their elders does not appeal to my sensibilities (I'm Igbo and we do not bow or prostrate to anybody), I see nothing wrong with it because I know its a sign of respect.

@frosbel,

I think you misunderstand the Catholic understanding of veneration of the saints, who you call the dead.  We Catholics do not worship the saints or think of them as gods. Instead, we see them as champions/heroes of the faith and look to them as individuals to emulate (in addition to our Lord Jesus Christ).

Here is a youtube link that kind of explains the Catholic understanding of the saints:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxvX4ljuBKQ.

In addition, here is a short response to the question, "Do Catholics Worship Saints?"

NO!

Adoration is the worship and homage that is due to God alone. The Saints are human like you and I.  They are not divine. Adoration of the saints has never been nor will ever be part of Catholic teaching or prayer. We venerate the saints.

Veneration is the honor due to the excellence or achievement of a created person.

The Olympics give us an example of veneration.  An Olympic gold medal for excellence in athletics is a form of veneration.  Honor given for the achievement of an athlete takes nothing away from the glory of God. We pay many honors to Olympic Champions; like putting their picture on a box of Wheaties and giving them many apparel endorsements. We are not scandalized by this because no one thinks we worship them as a god. We venerate the Saints in heaven because of the excellence they attained in living a life in imitation of Christ.  The Saints are like God's champion athletes.  It is pleasing to God and gives Him glory when we honor those who excelled in love for Him.

It is necessary to remember that the love and honor a person gives to God's Saints does not end with the Saints themselves but rather it reaches ultimately to God through the Saints. In honoring a beautiful work of art we are truly honoring the artist. It is only by God's grace that the Saints reached the heights of holiness. In a very real sense they are His works of art. Therefore, nothing is taken away from the glory and honor of God through veneration of the Saints, in fact we truly honor God when we venerate those who excelled in love for Him.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=742

When we talk about deception, we are talking about being deceived, and that is why I speak out against the deception of the Roman Catholic Church and their false teachings.

Why do I speak out against the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Mass? As a former Roman Catholic I speak out for the following reasons:

1] The Mass is unbiblical.

2] The Mass is a false doctrine propagated by a false church.

I don’t think it's a question of deception on the part of the Catholic Church, rather I think what’s at issue here is your misunderstanding of Catholic teaching and church history. Please show how the Mass is unbiblical. Please show how the Mass is false doctrine and is from a false church.

3] Many Evangelical Christian “leaders” have promoted unity with Roman Catholicism (thereby endorsing their false gospel, Galatians 1:8,9).

Jesus prays the following, “Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one” (John 17:11). And it is only the anti-christ that wishes disunity among the children of God.

The Bible warns us about seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (1 Timothy 4:1)

The Roman Catholic Mass is a doctrine of devils.

Please prove this.

(A) What Is The Mass? (According To Rome)

Here I will use Roman Catholic teaching from the New Saint Joseph Catechism, that bears the RC Imprimatur, which signifies that the doctrine within the Catechism has been approved by the Roman Catholic Church.

The New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechism

Now lets take a look at the Roman Catholic doctrine (teaching) on the Mass


As you can see, the Mass is referred to as a SACRIFICE, in which CHRIST offers Himself to God, in an UNBLOODY MANNER.

Folks, that is absolute heresy.

The Bible makes it clear that it is the BLOOD that makes an atonement for the soul!

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. (Leviticus 17:11)

(B) The Mass Is The Perfect Sacrifice Continued

Right before Jesus died and gave His last breath He cried out ” . . . IT IS FINISHED . . .” [John 19:30]  The perfect sacrifice has been perfectly FINISHED, and it need not be offered up on a daily basis on the altars of Roman Catholic Churches throughout the world!


(C) Purposes Of The Mass

Catholic Christians believe that there is only one sacrifice, Jesus', but following the command "as often as" to proclaim the death of the Lord, the sacrifice of Christ is made physically present to every Christian in all places in every age. The Eucharist makes the actions of Christ's during the last supper and passion redeeming and truly present to us always and everywhere. The same mass that is celebrated in Catholic Churches is the same and only sacrifice Jesus made for our sins.

(D) Mass Cards

Mass cards can be obtained, for a donation, to have a Catholic Mass offered for a person living or DEAD!



In the illustration above, you can see that a donation of $5 will allow a person to have one Mass offered for them, and a donation of $45 will allow  nine separate Masses to be offered for the DECEASED (DEAD) person. The purpose of the Mass for the DEAD person is for the repose (rest) of their soul. The Catholic Church teaches about a place called Purgatory, a place where the soul will remain for an undetermined amount of time before they go to Heaven. The Mass card is for their benefit, and it can shorten their time in Purgatory! Folks, there is no such place called Purgatory. I wrote about that in another post here: PURGATORY: THE PLACE THAT DOES NOT EXIST.

In the illustration below, you can see that a person can have seven Masses offered up for them every single day, and they can also share in the “good works” of others.


The Bible tells us that salvation cannot be earned by “good works” lest any man boast.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

That is why I speak out against the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church.

Purgatory exists: (1 Cor 3:11-15) For no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one's work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.

The Bible is clear that faith holds a first and prominent role in the salvation of every person, but is is equally clear about the saving role of good works that play in our lives. Heb 10:38, 1 Pet 2:12, Mt 16:27, James 2:14-18

frosbel:
https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/blasphemy.jpg



Dear friend,

Do you see anything terribly wrong with this picture? I do. This is the Catholic Mary. Look at her hands. Do you see the scars of crucifixion? Did Mary die on the cross for you? No! This photo to the left is blasphemous and creepy! Does this bother you? It should. Look at the caption. It says, Mary, Co-Redemptrix (or co-redeemer). Look again, it says she our "advocate"--but wait a minute. 1st John 2:1 says that Jesus is our advocate with the Father.

", if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

The Roman Catholic Mary is an IMPOSTER!
Look again, this abominable image also says that Mary "mediates" the grace of God. This is untrue when compared with the Bible. Why is light emitting from her wounds? Is she supposed to be the light of the world and power of God? Wait a minute, notice that she is pregnant. Jesus is supposedly still in her womb, a fetus totally dependent on her. Meanwhile she's all powerful! You may want to see my article "Catholics believe Jesus is a Mama's Boy".

Did you know that Roman Catholics call Mary the "Queen of Heaven"? Did you know that the Bible talks about the queen of heaven? It does. The Queen of Heaven is A PAGAN BABYLONIAN GODDESS, A DEVIL-- Jeremiah 7:18, "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."

You can also read about this devil, the Queen of Heaven, in Jeremiah chapter 44. In this little treatise you will see FROM CATHOLIC SOURCES that

They call their Mary the Queen of Heaven. This is not the Mary of the Bible.
They pray to Mary
They turn to Mary for help for sin
They believe she was born sinless just like Jesus (called the Immaculate Conception--should be "Deception"
They believe she never saw physical death (called the Assumption of Mary)

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get this picture and your knowledge of the Catholic understanding of the Virgin Mary and her role in salvation history?