Backslider,
whatever u insist on calling me is ur own wahala. Just try not to be too sad about it. I browsed through ur careful work only because most of it did not make sense to me considering my earlier posts, so I wondered why u addressed them specially to me. For good measure, I did not reply u initially when I was replying TayoD because it seemed unnecessary.

If u have been studying Revelation since 92 and this is what u have to show for it, then I must say u still have a lot of studying to do. I am not here to disqualify anyone, just to state my own beliefs. And did u just say “The Holy Spirit God”? Maybe u should explain that too.

It was u that brought up the noun and pronoun issue, read ur previous post again, so I was only responding to u and did not think it mattered if they were nouns or pronouns. Note that I used “plural ADDRESS FORMS” aka names or nouns, hellooo! How does this change anything? And I know the Yoruba language very well thank u. Isn’t my name omot?

No one stops me from reading Revelation. That does not mean I understand it perfectly.

As for the rest of ur post, all I have to say is, in the most breathless and sarcastic tone I can muster from my formidable repertoire, WHATEVER!

backslider, my name is Omot. not omoto or omotob. and i'm female.

don't even go near the book of revelation because u are taking on a task u cannot handle in a million years. renowned christian scholars have attempted to comprehend it and they still argue, so i will not even bother.

i cited the yoruba example of using plurals as a form of address for one elder, even though it indicated two elders. i did not say anything about nouns and pronouns cos i didn't see the need. it was just an example, there's no need to go into meanings. but the fact that they do not have plural pronouns to refer to God is that He is not part of their culture! they had different names and titles for their deities long before the Europeans arrived with christianity. if not i'm sure they would. i'm not so sure about their customs, but isn't their supreme deity called Eledumare or Olodumare?

it was erroneous to use the word 'angel' to refer to Jesus in his prehuman days, what i meant was 'spirit' . He did not have blood, flesh and bones, and was a spirit, just as he became after his resurrection when he could appear in a locked room.

you say Jesus opened the book, while Another sat on the throne. so u still think they decided to keep acting like they were different up to this point? puh---lease. which of the 'Hims' did they worship?

from now on i'll only reply when a valid point is made, or someone 'converts' me.

backslider,
i do read the Bible in context, just not in yours.

the Hebrew thought God had a female side that's why their word for Him is plural. for them to accpet Jesus as His son, they needed a female side. both sides were thought to connect to brign forth offspring! They even had a name for 'her'. they held God in so much awe that they never pronounced His name YHWH out loud, they only wrote it out. so if u go by old hebrew customs u are bound to make mistakes. the Yoruba and the French use plural address forms for strangers and elders, does this make them plural? it certainly doesn't. it only indicates respect.

why are you doomed if Jesus was created? does it make any great difference? he still died for u so u are saved, not doomed.

the Word is Jesus Christ, not God. he existed in spirit form before he was made flesh and sent to the earth to dwell among us. his 'oneness' with God is only symbolic, not physical. that is the way the verse is meant to be understood.

Jesus was rewarded for his mission, that was when he said"all power is given unto me". he did not have this power before. he was given command of the earth, and all creatures are instructed to bow to him in Phillipians 2.

i would like it if u just made ur case rather than rest it. i desire to be enlightened, so maybe u can help me b showing me, thank u.

TayoD,
I'm glad u are taking out the time to explain ur view and how u think i should understand it. the thing is the more u bring up points, the more errors i see.

what does that verse tell u, the one in John 3: 13? if u choose to explain it to mean Jesus was in Heaven and on earth at the same time, does it not also mean there was no man in heaven? does it not also mean all those that have died and supposedly gone to heaven to be with God are not in fact there? think brother, think. if the only person that has ascended into heaven is the only one that came from it, which is Jesus as that verse is saying, then where are all the rest? anyway that's another topic for another day. besides if u read the verse that comes immediately before that, Jesus says he is not talking of earthly things but heavenly things. He meant that his rightful place is in heaven and he was talking in a different sense from the ordinary.

u quoted Micah 5:2. this is only reinforcing the fact that Jesus Christ existed in his prehuman days. it says his "goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting". it shows that Jesus has been doing the will of his Father from time past, like when he was sent to collect tithes from Abraham. it does not mean that he was there at the beginning of his Father. he existed with the Father long before our creation. also, John1:1 says nothing about Jesus being before the beginning. It says "IN the beginning was the word", referring to the beginning of God's creation. Jesus was there and God spoke to him when He said "Let US make man in our own image". that is not a point of argument as we seem to agree that Jesus did exist at that time.

i now understand what u meant about the marriage, although u rephrased ur term from body to spirit, so it is no more applicable.

Seeing his "day" does not make any difference. when u say 'in my day', u mean in ur lifetime. it does not say anything about the Day of the Lord which is the day of God's judgement, which Abraham could not have seen because it has not taken place. The two terms are very different. Jesus is referring to his own days, his early days when he lived with his Father before the creation of the living, and not about the Day of the Lord.

and how does ur quotation of 'mystery' help me? from your quotation, Godliness does not mean being God, but being LIKE God. Jesus is indeed like God and second only to Him.So this does not support ur idea of trinity. i only have a problem with people trying to say something is mysterious and cannot be understood when they are trying to avoid pointers to the truh. the word itself holds no problem for me.

from all indications, we should agree to disagree. the main requirement for salvation is to believe that Jesus is the Son of Gd who died to redeem us from sin, and to serve God faithfully till the end.

Backslider,
I am very much not a JW and i do not support them in any way. i just read my Bible and see things differently from u.

Jesus is the Son of God, he is also the Son of man. he is the Son of God because he gets life from his Father. He is equally the Son of David because he came through David's lineage. He is the Son of man because he came to this world through man, in a generic sense. Simple. and for your information, it is ONLY Jehovah that is uncreated, but all others are! including Jesus. why did u chose to ignore all the other verses that show that they are different? or aren't they in your Bible?

the rest or your post barely makes sense to me and i do not see why it was addressed to me, especially because i'm not one of the so-called JWs.

@TayoD,
u have no right to claim to be a versed student of the Bible. in case u didnt notice i backed up all my statements with their Biblical verses, which is more than u can say.

i am telling u what i think, if u do not accept i then fine, it is not by force. it was just an expression of an opinion which anyone has the freedom to do on this forum.

note that the beginning being referred to in John 1:1 is the beginning of God's creation, not God's existence. this does not mean u should assume Jesus was there at his Father's beginning.

when u say one body and take it to mean in the flesh, why do we use the same term to refer to the church as "one body in Christ"? are we being fleshly then?

i really do not have the time to go through all that goobledegook in search or your earlier posts. u might just have to restate your response.

it is my firm belief that Jesus Christ and Melchizedek king of Salem are one and the same person. Jesus Christ said "your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day" and he could only have been referring to his prehuman days when Abraham paid tithes to him (Heb. 7:4).

yes i am made in the image and likeness of God. how does that theory of spirit body and soul explain the baptism of Jesus? aren't they separated there?

i certainly am not confused, and i do not see the spiritual mind that u are using to explain this so-called mystery. maybe it is this mysterious cloaking that makes things even more obscure for u who choose to see it that way. i beleive Jesus' statements are very simple when he says he has no power of his own but it his Father that sent him.

the doctrine of trinity is a deceptive one that has no biblical basis. The Father is God, the Son is a god, but the Holy Spirit is never called a god in the Bible. How about that?

All creatures are subject to the Father, both in heaven and on earth. The Father is a separate entity from the Son, responsible for the existence of the Son. The Father gives life, the Son receives it. The Father has names and titles entirely different from the Son like I Am, Jah, Rock, Ancient of Days, Most High,etc; while the Son is called Emmanuel, Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Prince of Peace, etc. THEY ARE DIFFERENT!

it is wrong to say the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the same, and call it a 'mystery'. When Jesus said he and his father are one, he did not include the Holy Spirit, so if u use this as evidence the doctrine of trinity is still not founded. Jesus was only trying to say he and his Father are united in purpose. It's the same thing as when people get married and become one, it only means unity in mind, in purpose, not physically. read Jhn 17:20-23, where Jesus Christ prayed that his Apostles should be "one, even as we(he and his Father) are one".

as i earlier said, at the time of Jesus' baptism, the three entities are displayed separately. the Father in heaven, the Son in the water, and the Holy spirit in the form of a dove.

all the times Jesus Christ prayed, who was he praying to? and what was the point of praying if he was God and could achieve all these things by his own power? was he just putting on a show for the witnesses? gimme a break here pls. he even said "I go unto the Father", and "Our Father which art in Heaven" to show how different they are physically.

The truth is that Jesus Christ was first created (John 1:1),the Beginning of God's creation(Rev 3:14) and was the chief of angels in heaven. in his prehuman days, he existed as Melchizedek, the angel who collected tithes from Abraham (Hebrews 7:1-11). He was made human and sent to the earth to bring man close to God and to redeem mankind from sin, to perform the ransome sacrifice.

the Father said "To whom will you liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be alike" Isaiah 46:5. this is exactly what u are doing if u believe in trinity.

Finally, Jesus Christ declared, "I can of my own self do nothing, because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" John 5:30. and also "For my Father is greater than I" John 14:28. the three are not perfectly equal, there is hierarchy.

i hope i have opened ur eyes even further.

na wa o!
the minute i started reading this topic i realized i was way outta my league. the topic looked boring at first but this is one of the most imterestin topics i've come across. what with the jaw-breaking grammar that Nutter and whatzhisname are using. ah ah, u ppl should chill now, u wont get scores for using language mere mortals like me will have to use a dictionary to understand.

besides i'm still roflmao over some of the posts

oga Chxt, u'd better come back to nairaland so some of ur colleagues can concentrate on toher topics o!

it's things like this that mkaes people not put their personal issues on this forum because people automatically judge u for them. now i have to post even more of it to enlighten diddy.
note that i said until recently in my earlier post. i'm in my late twenties and engaged to be married to this guy (we've started with the introduction process) so i'm pretty sure i'll marry him. one of the greatest human desires is to settle down in marriage so i'm only human to want to have a guy marry me even if he decides he wants to be sure the sex is good before marriage. and i do have God in my life which is the main reason i feel guilty for having sex.
and u say God in every relationship? hell, u date some 'pastors' and u have to sleep with them! they agree fornication is a sin but they define it as indiscriminate sex, which means it's ok to have sex if u're in love. and they quickly tell u they love u so they can get down to business. only to decide u were not the one God showed them in their 'vision'. do u know how many sistas this has affected? nowadays people come to church to meet someone to date, so even a proclamation of God in the relationship does not save u from sex.

No one says Jesus isnt a God, one of his names is Mighty God.

what we're saying is he's not the Almighty God.

there is a bible verse that says: The LORD said to my Lord; sit thou at my right hand until i make thy enemies thy footstool.[/b]This was when Jesus got back to heaven after his earthly mission.

some Bibles use LORD for Jehovah and Lord for Jesus. don't u think there's a reason for this? all the times Jesus said My Father is greater than I[b] indicate that there is a hierarchical order in heaven with Jehovah at the top, Jesus following and so on.

For goodness sake, they have different names, how can they both be one physically be open minded and not brainwashed. look at all the indications and be educated.

i agree with u that virgins can and should be in relationships. the thing is, i was a virgin until recently. i really wanted to remain one till my wedding nite but that became impossible. i went into relationships that even though the conversation was good and the chemistry was right, it all still boiled down to s-e-x. even with all the other trappings, the fact that i resisted the actual act led to it's being the whole centre of the relationships. i mean, i learnt to give head just to satisfy a guy and hoped it would substitute for the main thing but,

for the first 2-3 months it was perfectly fine until they started to head in that direction and i resisted. it's not like i don't like making out and all. i just wanted it to end at a point. i tried telling them even before agreeing to date them but they usually agreed, only to expect u to change ur mind after 2 months. i don't need to say how many guys i was beginning to like and had to break up with because of the issue of sex.

that's why i posted this topic. i wanted to know how possible it is to remain a virgin till your late twenties when u get married. in our society today, it's almost impossible to survive in relationships without sex. the guys i met who didnt want sex didnt meet up to other requirements. all the cute sexy guys i'm drawn to are drawn to sex.
i finally gave up.

does anyone know the age at which Christ was crucified? i know he was 33 and a half or thereabout but if u have the biblical quotation pls post it on this thread. thanks.

i don't celebrate christmas cos i don't beleive Christ was born in December, the more reason not to celebrate it at that time. i kind of miss all the festivities everyone else looks forward to that seems so much fun. but at least i don't declare that people can't celebrate whatever they want whenever they want. just try to avoid mixing it up with paganism and idol-worshipping.

@freshb
i read about that constantine thing and i saw a documentary on it on CNN. it calls to question the very foundation of Christianity, basing the divinity of Jesus on a vote made among very mortal men. i console myself with the fact that science and scientific reasoning always search for ways to explain supernatural and mysterious things logically. this leads to their failure.

@fresh-b
no one says u shldnt celebrate Christ or it's birth. it's one thing to take a day and declare it for Christ. it's another thing to go into a juju shrine, drive the priest out, wear his clothes, sing his music and incantations, even his very behaviour in worship of his god, and say we are worshipping God Almighty. think of that.

Most people don't believe Jesus was actually born on December 25th, christmas day. so why do they celebrate it then?

apart from celebrating what was originally a pagan festival, and declaring it the birthday of God's son, why adopt most of the pagan practices to go with it? these include the christmas lights, the tree (which originally started in worship of the gods of agriculture for preserving crops during the year, by decoration of the trees with bright objects) and other things?

isn't it ironic that most of the people who celebrate christmas are not even christians? especially in the western world. everyone looks forward to it, including people that have not seen the inside of a church.

i totally agree. Jesus Christ and His father Jehovah are two different
people entirely. this is plain from John 1: 1-3, where it says that the Word (Jesus) was with God. They are one in purpose, in understanding. apart from that they are different. who do u think God was talking to when he said "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" in Genesis 2? and the same John says nothing was created without Jesus! so He was the first person created, and then together with God began to create other things. when the time came for God to draw His people closer, He needed to personify himself, to show them how much he understood what they were going through. so He sent His son in his place. [b][/b]

Jesus also kept saying "My Father is greater than I", and "I am doing the will of my Father who sent me". hH made it clear that He was only a representative because He and his father have the same mind and purpose.

This fact is also made clear at the baptism of Jesus. here, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are revealed to be three different entities. The Son is in the water. The Spirit is in the form of a dove, and the Father speaks from the heavens. Isn't this soooo obvious already?

if u say the three are one physically, then that means there was nobody in Heaven when Jesus came to the earth. It also means for the three days Jesus died there was no God. why wasn't there chaos? besides who then resurrected Him? when he committed His spirit to his Father, where was the Father? all these are questions people should ask rather than swallow waht their pastors tell them hook line and sinker.

this does not underestimate the divinity of Jesus. it just means Jehovah is the Almighty God, while Jesus is a mighty God. He derives his power and authority from His father (Philipians 2:10) and is the only way to God's true salvation.

be realistic. this is nigeria. most parents monitor their female children until they get married. a friend of mine, even after she was engaged n all, still had to lie so she could spend the weekend with her fiance. they didnt even let her move in with him until after the wedding. so what are we talking about?i had a seven o clock curfew till i was twenty three when it went up to 9! but i always thot of ways to do what i wanted during my time.

u just have to hang in there, remember it's mostly for ur own good. u might tryu getting her trusted friend to talk to her about it. also find a time when u're both relaxed and laughing over something. then bring it up gently and try to tease her about it, that she'll probably still monitor u after u're married. she might laugh over it but believe me, it might help. and try to earn her trust by telling her liitle things about urself, what u do outside, talking about the positive attributes of ur friends that u know she'll like, and try to include their names when u say u're going out, like "Tola n i are going shopping for her christmas clothes". if u get stuck in traffic or delayed, call her , tell her what's up and explain that u're on ur way.

the idea is to let her know the activities u're involved in(or the positive ones anyway) so that she won't think she has to monitor u.

the girl was featured. her name is Titi n i think she did one fanta advert. she's a model. think the song is really nice tho d video cld use some polishing up. as usual, they probably don't have a good producer. if it was kennis music, they'll probably have won at least a channel o award. abi?

go to their webite and check, it's http://kimberly-ryan.net/index.asp. good luck.

pls, i need that help too.

i got an invitation from a friend on yahoo messenger and it was a virus. i clicked on it and the site was taking so long to open so i tried to close it. my pc was hanging so i had to shut down. for the next few days it sent itself to everyone on my friends list whenever i was online and i had to tell them to ignore it. now i cant even use yahoo messenger even though i downloaded a new version. and now it's attacking my modem and memory.

i've got like two engineers to come check it but the use antivirus and it seems to be gone, but it always resurfaces. pls help!

i'd say it was really silly of u to just up n say 'r u interested in me'. if she was a blunt person she'd have either asked u out or given u her number herself, but the fact that she sent it thru someone indicates she wanted it to be indirect. so u shld have just kept calling and talkin for a while. then ask her to go somewhere with u or something like that. show her if u have interest in her rather than expect her to confirm it to u. the thing is we ladies have learnt that it is better to front for u guys else y'all take us for granted. so she'd never just say 'yes, i'm interested' so u'd treat her like trash or run in the opposite direction. next time, be diplomatic with a lady even if it's obvious she likes u.

it definitely has to be the notebook. hell, this guy wrote one letter a day for 365 days, even though he didnt get a reply. and then he still came back for her at the end of the day though she lost her memory, and told her the story of their love every day even though she'd forget it the next day. it's totally amazing. the love in that movie is one of its kind.

Just wondering if people who are virgins and plan to remain so till they are married get in relationships. and if it isn't impossible, especially for the girls, to remain in them because guys are mostly into sex and demand it in relationships. Virgins in the house, pls enlighten us. Do u have relationships? u know the kind i mean.

one thing i can say is it lasts and lasts. and from personal experience, u achieve no real closeness. u spend time missing each other and talking and talking and there's no action. after a while the words begin to sound hollow and u wonder if u have something real. then he's a guy and it's only natural for his eyes to wander around, esp in a foreign place. i had one for two years and i was shocked at the end when i realised i barely knew him and he hardly knew me. the second one was much better, but the network usually frustrated us and all that stuff. besides i got tired of watching my friends go out on dates and to the movies with their boyfriends and i cldnt tag along. i met someone else, got close, called it quits and moved on. though the previous guy hurt me, he admitted to cheating so i cldnt trust him anymore.

it can work but it'll take lots of patience, sacrifice, trust and credit. if u knew him very well before he moved, and u were already really into the relationship, then it will probably work. but if it's still young, it wont stand the test of distance. so good luck.

i knew immediately i started reading the post that it was a hoax. something smells really fishy. even the grammatical errors are not consistent. and then a guy comes up like one of those terrorists to take responsibility for the bombs. na wa o. what's the point giving u advice when u admit that u deceived us to get a response? whyu didnt u just admit u were the guy involved and we would have felt for u and probably condemned the girl? and whose pic did u put there?
with that kind of 419 id, u just want to use us to polish ur skills. well, u still have a long way to go.