@omotob208,

No one says Jesus isnt a God, one of his names is Mighty God.
what we're saying is he's not the Almighty God.
there is a bible verse that says: The LORD said to my Lord; sit thou at my right hand until i make thy enemies thy footstool.[/b]This was when Jesus got back to heaven after his earthly mission.
some Bibles use LORD for Jehovah and Lord for Jesus. don't u think there's a reason for this? all the times Jesus said My Father is greater than I indicate that there is a hierarchical order in heaven with Jehovah at the top, Jesus following and so on.
For goodness sake, they have different names, how can they both be one physically be open minded and not brainwashed. look at all the indications and be educated.

You are obviously coming to a conclusion that is not based on ALL the facts made available in the Bible. The two Words: 'LORD' and 'Lord' as used in Psalm 110:1 are two different hebrew words altogether. That explains the difference. Also, God in His eternal nature and existence cannot be known or approached by any being, that is why He relates with His creatures through His other nature which He calls the Son. That is why He told Moses that you cannot see my face and live, yet we are told that "Jesus is the brightness of God's glory and the express image of his person."  Great indeed is the mystery of godliness.
That Jesus said His Father is greater than Him only shows He submits to the authority of His Father. the indications you need to look at are the testimony of the Father who cals the Son God as we find in Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thank you Tayod,

You put the question to rest Hebrew 1v 8 and colosians where it says By him was all things made and all things take existence.

There is no hierachy in The God Head Read John 17

@TayoD: I am well aware that civil engineering is more than super structure. Civil engineering deals in waste treatments, and even in torbine (turbulence,etc). Unfortunately, I state that architecture and civil engineering are somewhat related, laying emphasis on architecture. You initially said it was not possible. But now you are going against your words. Indirectly, you are agreeing with me, but you prefer to creat the illusion that are not to ordinary eyes. I am practicing civil engineering and I am not practicing architecture. I think thta you conveniently forgot that when you are in junior or senior class, it is always possible to actually not even remember what you study in fresh man year. This is almost the case, since you have bigger fish to fry.

I think what you have conveniently done though is to distract me from the religious issue for a while, whereby your cohorts had a free ride. I can only respond to you and others when I have the time for it. About me going back to school. I am satisfied with my life as it is. Secular education in any formal setting will not greatly benefit me. I do not need it anymore of it. I do believe that since we do not know each other, everyone being unanimous on this board, then I do not see how my family and personal standing play out here. Afterall, my identity is not known to you or anyone here.

The question is this, is there any convergence between architecture and civil engineering? This was my statement and your thesis was actually irrelevant. There is no descipline in engineering that is independent of another. Even chemical engineers work in automobile companies. You see, I have a different dream that will be difficult and completely diffrerent from your dream. The most essential thing is that we are taking a very dissimilar path to God. Your God is three whereas mine is One. When I told a friend about my experience on the board, he said that people will be coming to me from all kinds of direction. It was a true statement. You have demostrated it, without being abashed.

Again, I stand on my primary statement; Architecture is somewhat a fine art expression of civil engineering. The emphasy is on architecture. Architecture is not only living spaces and civil engineering is not only superstructures. I do not need any lecture from TayoD, since in the first place he was not able to have any insight that I did not claim that one is totally synonimous to the other.

@Havila: Without going too much into your writing, I do not have time to waste, hence, it is not clear that Jesus was the first to be called Emmanuel, on earth or among the children of Israel. Taking to account that the peiple knew the meaning of the name and yet such a name can not be construed, by anyone with any rational thinking that it means the bearer is God. Since the children of Isreal were expecting a messiah and not God on earth, they knew that Jesus was not God. It was also common before Jesus anyhow that the people called some nobilities and powerful among them Lord and sometimes God. In either case, The Creator was not meant by such a statement. Joseph was called Lord/God by his siblings, when they they came for grains in Egypt. Joseph master before then was called Lord. The Egyptians called their kings Lord/God. In all they did not mean The Creator. You and me know the end of Pharaoh who claimed God/Lord over his kingdom. He and those who called him this perished because of their evilness.

@olabowale

I think you are not fair at all The lord is is for man. In yoruba the Oluwa has meaning We have "Oluwa mi" this could mean my head or husband. WE have OLUWA This means God.

In Ewe language is the same Use of words They say SORUN ( THE SAME WORD FOR HUSBAND AND WIFE) But APETOR IS Lord of the HOUSE. But when praying in Jesus name they say APETOR MAWU or APETOR YESU.

The lord in the bible varies you have to know the language of the bible to understand it meet the holy Ghost brother.

The deity of Christ is the soul purpose why Jesus was not accepted as the Christ by the Jews up till now. The Jews know that the Christ is God himself but they expected one that will be militant (Zealot) but were very musch confused when they saw he was meek and did not carry any strategy to over throw their roman oppresors at that time.

THE CHRIST IS THE MESSIAH AND THE MESSIAH IS GOD HIMSELF. " he shall be called Mighty GOD" he had to come first to make peace and he is coming again to make war.

. . .and to butress that, you just have to simply read John 1:1. That verse says it all. Also that passage in John (10:24, i think. . .can't remember exactly but start reading from Chapter 10 downwards)

NOTE: Mind you, these are scriptural verses to back up TayoD and Backslider's posts. So the divinity of Jesus Christ is evident in the Scripture.

God Jesus God Holy Ghost And God The Father.

THIS THREE ARE DIFFERENT AND DISTINCT IN THE HEBREW OLD TESTAMENT THEY KNOW THIS

In Hebrew, God is Elohim—plural of Eloah. If You Listen To Hebrew Bible reader In Genesis 1 You will see that The Word Elohim is used and not Eloah.
The Triuness of God is In the Hebrew Bible The Jews Knows this!

According to Raëlians, in 1973, a former French journalist named Raël (which is claimed to mean The Messenger of the Elohim) was contacted by Yahweh, the leader of an advanced extra-terrestrial race known as the Elohim. Yahweh informed Rael about humanity's origins and purpose, and that the word Elohim had been mistranslated as the singular word "God", and is actually a plural word which means "those who came from the sky".

Aliens

Reverend:

the leader of an advanced extra-terrestrial race known as the Elohim.

In other words, you believe in extra-terrestials?

@reverend

please I dont think you are interested in this. You want to dabble in what you dont know and believe in? The hebrew Old testament is ancient it has been prooving over thousands of years. please be objective.

Read The Hebrew  בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת     הָאָרֶץ.

As I told you before I am versed In war and history I would been a soldier if not for God.  Please My friend Mr Reverend let me argue with people that have there problem with ELOHIM. You neither Beleive none of them.

So no point arguing with you.

JESUS IS LORD, THE KNOWLEDGE TO GOD, BUT NOT GOD!

All that people in this specific topic have been quoting were statements from third paties. This is what JESUS himself said concerning this topic. (Read JOHN 17 below). It is high time we shift our mind from the BELIEVE System to KNOWING System. You can be swayed from your believe but not from what you actually know. LET THE BIBLE INTERPRETE THE BIBLE.

John 17

1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee, 2 since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. 4 I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do; 5 and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made. 6 "I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee; 8 for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine; 10 all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I am coming to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. 20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, the world has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou hast sent me. 26 I made known to them thy name, and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."

god the FATHER. god d SON. god d HOLY SPIRIT, which one d'you worship? u guys shouldn't call names while posting. eg backslider. god is d son of God. ok better put,Jesus is d son of God. then tell me what's God name or is it Jesus? 0.0.0.0 Jesus_d son of Jesus abi?

@avsnet

I thank for your quote but you did not explain your position. I am ready to Debate in good way with you My aim is not to win the Arguement but to leave you opened asking more question that only be answered by God Elohim.

Elohim In the Old Testament was Used over 2500.

From where you Quoted It said

"Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee, 2 since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. 4 I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do; 5 and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.

Look very careful He was there before the world was made He was talking here of his Divinity to US as the SON of GOD
He said GLORIFY THY SON SO THAT THY SON MAKE GLORIFY THEE no the angel has the right to say this. you see they being equal as Deities but he says Again as Though he were a mere man Empowered by God since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him

But again as

21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Notice the word[b] US [/b] good he was talking as Co-equal we have seen the Angel in several other places in the bible they never spoke with this Authority.

@mustay

The Triune God ELOHIM is the one I worship. No Trinity no Heaven. Jesus was Striped of his Godship and can to become man so that he could pay the price and draws us to the Father. The Holy Ghost he left with us to bring us back in remembrance of him and teaches his word.

I worship the Triune God Elohim The God of Abram Isaac Isreal and The Mighty Terrible one.

There are three persons in the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one God, the same in essence, equal in power and glory (1 Jn. 5:7; Matt. 28:19).

1 Jn. 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Jesus Himself said in Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Backslider:

@avsnet

I thank for your quote but you did not explain your position. I am ready to Debate in good way with you My aim is not to win the Arguement but to leave you opened asking more question that only be answered by God Elohim.

Elohim In the Old Testament was Used over 2500.

From where you Quoted It said

"Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee, 2 since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. 4 I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do; 5 and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.

Look very careful He was there before the world was made He was talking here of his Divinity to US as the SON of GOD
He said GLORIFY THY SON SO THAT THY SON MAKE GLORIFY THEE no the angel has the right to say this. you see they being equal as Deities but he says Again as Though he were a mere man Empowered by God since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him

But again as

21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Notice the word[b] US [/b] good he was talking as Co-equal we have seen the Angel in several other places in the bible they never spoke with this Authority.

THE QUESTION IS "IS JESUS GOD?"

Let the forum know of what you make of the answer provided in JOHN 17. I rest my case.

@Avsnet

I disagree

Let us look at the same John 20 verse 28

Thomas called Jesus God by saying to Jesus, "My Lord and My God". If Jesus is not God, then why did Jesus did not correct Thomas. Four verses later, it says that this is written so you might believe that Jesus is the son of God, (John 20:31). Therefore, we can see that the term Son of God is saying that Jesus is God.


Col. 2:9, "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,"


Phil. 2:5-7, "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness."


Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He [The Father] says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, "

If Jesus is not God, why does God Himself call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8?

Please answer this one

Shalom

The Final nail of the Coffin!


Col. 1:15-16, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him."

ope_emi:

In other words, you believe in extra-terrestials?

I keep an open mind that life outside of our planet exists! It would be very arrogant to think that we are the only ones!

Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about God's or Jesus or any other blatantly fictive characters, but other forms of life other than the human species.

@Backslider

You base all of your arguments on passages from the Bible which has been written, re-written and misinterprated thousands of times over the years. How can you be so convinced on the validity of your claims from only the writings of a manmade book of stories?

Don't get me wrong I admire the depth and trouble you have gone to the give your answers but they are based upon a less than credible information source that has ben proven to contain hundreds of contradictions and mistakes!

@rev

I thought the same too and I was very Critical of the Bible. I am a scientist in nature I always ask WHY WHAT AND WHEN.

Read History Of the Bible by A Jew Called Josephus he was not a Christian, He was just an Intellect that put history down.

@babs787
methibks that you just thrive on controversy. If not it is evident that this was never intended to be an open dailogue as you have called people who hold contrary views names.
I personally believe that Hesus christ is lord. So if you think that is blasphemous go take a piss in the lagoon.

the doctrine of trinity is a deceptive one that has no biblical basis. The Father is God, the Son is a god, but the Holy Spirit is never called a god in the Bible. How about that?

All creatures are subject to the Father, both in heaven and on earth. The Father is a separate entity from the Son, responsible for the existence of the Son. The Father gives life, the Son receives it. The Father has names and titles entirely different from the Son like I Am, Jah, Rock, Ancient of Days, Most High,etc; while the Son is called Emmanuel, Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Prince of Peace, etc. THEY ARE DIFFERENT!

it is wrong to say the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the same, and call it a 'mystery'. When Jesus said he and his father are one, he did not include the Holy Spirit, so if u use this as evidence the doctrine of trinity is still not founded. Jesus was only trying to say he and his Father are united in purpose. It's the same thing as when people get married and become one, it only means unity in mind, in purpose, not physically. read Jhn 17:20-23, where Jesus Christ prayed that his Apostles should be "one, even as we(he and his Father) are one".

as i earlier said, at the time of Jesus' baptism, the three entities are displayed separately. the Father in heaven, the Son in the water, and the Holy spirit in the form of a dove.

all the times Jesus Christ prayed, who was he praying to? and what was the point of praying if he was God and could achieve all these things by his own power? was he just putting on a show for the witnesses? gimme a break here pls. he even said "I go unto the Father", and "Our Father which art in Heaven" to show how different they are physically.

The truth is that Jesus Christ was first created (John 1:1),the Beginning of God's creation(Rev 3:14) and was the chief of angels in heaven. in his prehuman days, he existed as Melchizedek, the angel who collected tithes from Abraham (Hebrews 7:1-11). He was made human and sent to the earth to bring man close to God and to redeem mankind from sin, to perform the ransome sacrifice.

the Father said "To whom will you liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be alike" Isaiah 46:5. this is exactly what u are doing if u believe in trinity.

Finally, Jesus Christ declared, "I can of my own self do nothing, because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" John 5:30. and also "For my Father is greater than I" John 14:28. the three are not perfectly equal, there is hierarchy.

i hope i have opened ur eyes even further.

Omot208,

I don't even know where to begin with you. You are obviously not a versed student of the Bible. I will try my best to educate you more as I see you seem to have a right attitude. I think your major problem is using a carnal mind to interprete the things of the Spirit. By the say, did you study the verses I asked you to earlier? I hope you are not just trying to tell us what you think without going back to research further from the scriptures.

Number 1, that we call godliness a mystery is not of our own making. That is what the Bible testifies of itself. So don't go in that direction at all. That the Father has a different title than the Son only goes to show the diferenet offices they occupy. What you have failed to see is the fact that even God called Jesus God, and not a god as you are claiming. How can you claim Jesus was created and reference John 1:1? Can't you read there that it says in the Beginnig the Word was? It says the Word was "face to face" with God and that the Word was God. You really need to go into the original tongue to understand some of thes Bible passages.

You have given your own meaning about marriage that is different from what God has in mind. The union between a man and woman that is consumated goes beyond a mind agreement. In fact, the Bible says they are ONE BODY, so I do not understand where you get your doctrine from.

I have answered the issue of Jesus praying to the Father before now, so you will do well to go find what I say if you are really here to learn.

Please understand that Jesus was not an Angel, neither was he Melchizedek. Where do you get your information from? Please don't let people who are confused confuse you any further. Jesus was never and never will be an angel. The Bible says Angels worship Him. Infact, the Bible also says God never said to an Angel: "Sit at my right hand, " which is a reference to Jesus. Melchizedek was a gentile king and priest (so much for those who say christians shouldn't be in politics). Infact, the Bible said he was made like the Son of God which means he is not the Son of God and that he was just a man (See Hebrews 7:3-4). If you want to learn more about this priest, I will be sure to provide you with answers.

Isaiah 46:5 should be quoted to those who believe in more than one God. We believe the Father and the Son are One and self-same indivisible God. Infact, our confession is that God is One. Let me give you a practical example. If you believe in the Bible, then you will realise that you are a triune beign even though you are one person. You are spirit, soul and body. Your spirit is dinsticnt from your body even though both are the self-same you. You can not separate one from the other even though both can be clearly demarcated. You are made in the image and likeness of God, so that should give you an idea of what the trinity is really all about.

@omot28

I believe you are Jehovah Witness I have Debated with this people for a long time.

Lets look At Genesis very well You Claim Jesus is an Angel? he was Created? I know in your bible they still have the proof because the aspect of the Jehovah witness Bible does not have the quotes in the gospels and epistles because they expunged it. I normally Debate them with their own bible the part they forgot to expunge it.

The LORD HAS ALREADY BEEN HERE BEFORE

GEN: 18 ver 1 And the LORD appeared unto him by the terebinths of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

Now watch what happens

Verse 2 and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood over against him; and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed down to the earth,

Out of the three one was speaking listen

Verse 10 And He said: 'I will certainly return unto thee when the season cometh round; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son.' And Sarah heard in the tent door, which was behind him.--


Notice that it was one out of the three that was talking here again and the word LORD in capital letter

13[b] And the LORD said unto Abraham:[/b] 'Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying: Shall I of a surety bear a child, who am old?

If you read down to the end you will that in[b] Verse 33 it says the LORD WENT HIS way[/b].

So be not deceived the Lord came down with only 2 Escort This time in the form of an Angel but he was still called LORD YHWH (Tetragramaton) as some call it.

Please note

The JW's agree with the Pharisees who condemned Jesus, that Jesus is not God in flesh. They accused Jesus of claiming to be God (John 10:33). But, of course they denied that Jesus was God, just the same as the JW's do.
Does the term SON OF GOD mean that Jesus is not God? Of so, then does the term SON OF MAN mean that Jesus is not a man?

If the term SON OF GOD means that Jesus is a man, then what does the term SON OF MAN mean?

If the term Son of Man means that Jesus is a man, then what does the term Son of God mean?
John 1:1 is dealing with God's nature since it says the word was God. Dealing with the nature of God we understand that there is only one God (Is. 43:10; 44:6-8; 45:5). To say that the Word was "a" god is far too close to polytheism in the context.


Please get back to me. I cannot convert anyone only the Dynamo can ( GOD THE HOLY GHOST)

THe THREE ARE DIFFERENT BUT LOVE IS THERE NAME. HOW I WISH TO BE LIKE THEM!

Hehe!Jesus himself should come and settle this matter once and for all.
I hear in some quarters that Jesus is half alien,half human!Now,how about that?
He was seeded in Mary through artificial insemination,beamed down from a spaceship orbiting just outside the earth's atmosphere.
There are many frescoes of Jesus that also includes UFOs old monateries and churches all over europe and elsewhere,clearly suggesting a conection between him and extraterrestrials.
The star that led the 3 wisemen was not a star,but a spaceship.That was why it was able to move and stop right on top of the birthplace of Jesus(according to the ET theory)

The question now is,who are these beings in these spacecrafts?

Extraterrestrials,or human beings with ultra advanced technology(there are ample evidences that the past human races that dwelled on this planet were far more advanced in everything than we are right now).
Humans that once dwelled on the fabled sunken continents ATLANTIS and LEMURIA(MU) come to mind in this regard.
The remnant refugees of the mythical destroyed RAMA EMPIRE of northern india are also strong candidates,because they also possessed advanced technology.
Or maybe the ASVINS who were fabled to be even more advancd technologically.
We should keep in mind that these humans possess very advanced spacecrafts even by today's standards,as well as super advanced technology which could've easily made them appear like gods to almost primitive humans like all the socalled prophets in the bible.
So,who fathered Jesus?
The remnants of:
The RAMA EMPIRE?
The ASVINS
ATLANTIS
LEMURIA(MU)
ETs
Or just plain Mary and Joseph?

The search for the truth continues.

The XFILE:The Jesus Case-Episode 1

Haha!
Did i just post a load of bullshit up there?Maybe that's because the whole thread is bullshit,and i caught the bullshit bug!
Whether Jesus is god or not,nigerians are still going to remain a crooked,roguish lot.
Happy new year,y'all!!

same to you. Hope you get your head out ya ass because ur faeces has been clogging ya brain. either that, or the akpu you've been eating consistently morning, afternoon, night for the past 48 hours.

Happy New Year and keep off that sepe.

same to you. Hope you get your head out ya ass because ur faeces has been clogging ya brain. either that, or the akpu you've been eating consistently morning, afternoon, night for the past 48 hours.

Happy New Year and keep off that sepe.

Haha!You guys will have to get ya collective heads outta ya collective asses first,especially you,because ya brain is still too clogged by faeces,and that's why you posted twice.
Keep off the sepe yourself.
Have a nice celebration.

gbade. x:

same to you. Hope you get your head out ya ass because your faeces has been clogging ya brain. either that, or the akpu you've been eating consistently morning, afternoon, night for the past 48 hours.

Happy New Year and keep off that sepe.

Backslider,
I am very much not a JW and i do not support them in any way. i just read my Bible and see things differently from u.

Jesus is the Son of God, he is also the Son of man. he is the Son of God because he gets life from his Father. He is equally the Son of David because he came through David's lineage. He is the Son of man because he came to this world through man, in a generic sense. Simple. and for your information, it is ONLY Jehovah that is uncreated, but all others are! including Jesus. why did u chose to ignore all the other verses that show that they are different? or aren't they in your Bible?

the rest or your post barely makes sense to me and i do not see why it was addressed to me, especially because i'm not one of the so-called JWs.

@TayoD,
u have no right to claim to be a versed student of the Bible. in case u didnt notice i backed up all my statements with their Biblical verses, which is more than u can say.

i am telling u what i think, if u do not accept i then fine, it is not by force. it was just an expression of an opinion which anyone has the freedom to do on this forum.

note that the beginning being referred to in John 1:1 is the beginning of God's creation, not God's existence. this does not mean u should assume Jesus was there at his Father's beginning.

when u say one body and take it to mean in the flesh, why do we use the same term to refer to the church as "one body in Christ"? are we being fleshly then?

i really do not have the time to go through all that goobledegook in search or your earlier posts. u might just have to restate your response.

it is my firm belief that Jesus Christ and Melchizedek king of Salem are one and the same person. Jesus Christ said "your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day" and he could only have been referring to his prehuman days when Abraham paid tithes to him (Heb. 7:4).

yes i am made in the image and likeness of God. how does that theory of spirit body and soul explain the baptism of Jesus? aren't they separated there?

i certainly am not confused, and i do not see the spiritual mind that u are using to explain this so-called mystery. maybe it is this mysterious cloaking that makes things even more obscure for u who choose to see it that way. i beleive Jesus' statements are very simple when he says he has no power of his own but it his Father that sent him.

see, i told you to lay off the sepe. Now you've begun running your mouth.

We don't have faeces clogging our brains, just Scripture and tha grace, dissecting and researching the Scripture.

You on the other hand have your head far up your ass. No wonder you reason from the rear. seems to me it got stuck up there. You'd probably need some Anaesthetic and surgery to get it out.

^ <directed to jagunlabi>

Omot208,

I'm sorry you took my reference to being versed in the scriptures badly. I didn't mean to offend you and neither am I trying to claim I have more understanding than you.

In any case, I wish you will learn to discern when Jesus is speaking as man or as God. I have explained this to you earlier but you don't seem to want to follow that truth which clearly brings understanding. In any case, I have refernced to you where the Father called Jesus God but you neglect that scripture.

In any case here is another statement of Jesus that you need to consider: John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. If you are unable to understand the fact that the Father and the Son could appear dinstitively at the same place at the same time, then how will you explain the fact that Jesus, who was speaking to Nicodemus in that passage claims that He is also in heaven even at the same time!!! Notice He was refering to Himself throughout that verse. He said He is the one that came down from heaven and yet He is still in heaven.

Your reading of John 1:1 is very strange to me. First of all, God does not have a beginning and same is said of Jesus. The Bible says "His going forth has been from of old, from everlasting" - Micah 5:2 John 1:1 outdates even Genesis chapter 1, but still Jesus, the Word, outdates John 1:1. The Bible says of Jesus in John 1:1 that He 'was' before the beginning. He was not created.

With regards to marriage, please do not imply what I have not said. I have only quoted the Bible that a maried man is one body with his wife. Pick up your Bible to reference this. The one joined to the Lord is one Spirit - 1 Corinthians 6:17. All you need do is receive these things by faith, then understanding will come.

Jesus wasn't refering to the time of Melchizedek when He mentioned Abraham rejoicing to see His Day. He never said Abraham rejoiced to see 'Him', but rather 'His Day'. These are two differenet things. The question you need to ask your self is: What is the Day of the Lord? A quick reference in the Bible will show you. Try to let the Bible interprete itself and not bring your own meaning to bear on it.

Why do you have a problem with the word 'mystery'. Do you know the Bible mentions it several times? With regards to godliness, it says in 1 Timothy 3:16 that God was manifest in the flesh: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Believe it, receive it and you will understand it.

Cheers.