₦airaland Forum

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It is a common thing on nairaland here.Seriously a Christian should on no account rain curses or call people names,this is why I don't take some Christians serious,no matter how true their claims may be. You can make your claims known but not by exchanging words.

You see,we don't just come up with the idea about God's sovereignty,this is one of the reasons......,if God cannot do what He likes or just make a decision on His own or choose whom he wants without following a rule or set standards,then He is still being checked,and if He is still being checked?.....,God is not God. These things remind us of God's sovereignty and not that He is partial....,accepting this amounts that you fear God,why we fear God is basically because He remains the only one who doesn't get checked.

I won't go for that kind of dedication,I understand you well,it isn't about the dancing and the whole style that you're missing,it's about the condition attached to that kind of dedication. Also you don't have to leave the church,unless you want to keep leaving churches,it's a pity every church has its own excesses,but that is why you have to stay firm with God and build intimacy with Him,and you won't be brought under any rules whatsoever,you will worship there fine,but you will know when to draw the line about some things too.

This is what we get when protecting the image of the church is what is made paramount and not the members

petra1:
"By faith Abel. . ." "Faith comes by hearing". They must have been taught or instructed . Abel obeyed by painstakingly selecting the firstling of every animal he offered . Cain didn't bother to go through the rigors . He offered something else . His wasn't based on faith. He heart definately wasn't right hence his action.

Are you now saying God had instructed them before hand about giving the first fruit?

petra1:
You are the one preaching the doctrine of giving all . And you should back the doctrine from scripture . Where did Gid say to give all and what does he mean by the context . I didn't teach about giving all you did. If I teach about giving all . I will give you scriptures and explain what I understand by it

I was only making clear God's standard on giving.....,God's standards weren't used for the Israelites you know?

petra1:
What does it say

Heb 11:4 "By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,through which he obtained witness that he was righteous,God testifying to his gifts and through it he being dead still speaks".........now lemme see how you comprehend this,what was lacking in Cain,excellent gifts or faith?

petra1:
Gods people



What they lack was not willingness but rather ability by the virtue of the old nature.



It's still the same . Are there no Christians or minister who do wicked works or who don't give?



You may need to explain . If possible with scripture . I don't want to assume I know what you mean

The rich man that came to meet Jesus went back sorrowfully because he couldn't give all.God expect us to give all but giving all doesn't translate to giving every penny on you or every substance you have,it means giving willingly,for that will be coming from all your heart and that is your ALL..Does it mean if I give #500 out of the #1000 I have,I haven't given all?.....No,for if it is coming from my heart I have given all and if it's not,even if I give the whole #1000,it won't be accepted by God.

petra1:
You're right but in this case The difference with their sacrifice was that one was a first fruit the other was not .

you still don't get it,the difference between their offerings was their different state of hearts,one gave willingly while the other gave grudgingly.......read Hebrew 11:4

If Abel gave to God through faith with no laws or rules or commandments on ground and pleased God,who told you you can't replicate same faith through your believe in Christ?

otemanuduno:
Wilgrea7 I think it's high time you wrote your own Bible. When did god Yahweh stop needing tithe? Did fictitious jesus ever say that tithe is no more necessary?

I must emphasize this Tithing doesn't apply to the peculiar people of the new dispensation

petra1:
Obedience is an act of will power . We excercise our willingness to obey.

Isaiah 1:19
If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

So either you're giving 10th or first or best to God it's still an oct of will knowing that it pleases God.

who were those being referred to here directly?.....you see, the peculiar people of the old found it difficult to obey God because they lacked the willing heart consequent upon their nature (adamic),and that was why strict laws and punishments for breakage were given to them,but it is no longer so,through the new nature,we now have the willing heart and therefore you do not need any yardstick or law to give....lemme also ask you,do you believe God expects us to give all we give?....and if yes,what does it mean to give all?

petra1:
Genesis 4:3-5
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.


It wasn't just about the heart . It was about the a excellence of the gift itself . Faith comes by hearing . That means God must have instructed them to give first fruits . CAIN didn't bring first fruits . He just brought fruits .

Hebrews 11:4
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Every thing is about the heart when it comes to God's dealings with men,only that the heart will definitely yield some fruits,God judges the heart but the fruits are proofs to men since no man sees the heart.

Wilgrea7:
God doesn't need anyone's money... he doesn't even want it... rather give it to the less privileged around you

Yeah,just like the way God doesn't need our righteousness or faithfulness or any good fruit we produce but that is what is expected of His Children,to give liberally,willingly,cheerfully to Him,to His works,to people around us.....but not to be done under compulsion or necessity or fulfilling a law.

You can't emphasize a limit or a minimum of which someone can give and still instruct them to go ahead and do their will,they don't follow

petra1:
Yes of course .



Yes ,instruction was given though not written . God wouldn't blame him if there was no instruction .why was he not accepted then?

He wasn't accepted because of the state of his heart,he didn't give God wholeheartedly.

petra1:
It won't be tithe



He did but cain case was a disobedience . God gave specific instruction . God wanted first fruit .

if then I give a benchmark(that is, certain percentage or amount for giving),does that still make it something you can do at will?
Disobedience to which law or commandment,had any instructions been given then?

Giving all is the standard,it is what God expects of His children but does giving all translates to giving every penny on you or every substance you have? No,it means giving willingly,that will be coming from all your heart and that is your ALL. Does it mean if I give #500 out of the #1000 I have,I haven't given all?.....for if then I haven't given all,none gives all,and if none gives all then none gives willingly and if none gives willingly,none pleases God.

petra1:
He won't turn down any sacrifice . But if a man
Giving with wrong attitude Jos faith may not produce the result of the harvest he ought to have

.

Tithe is 10% of earning or belonging.

okay can I choose to make it lower than 10%?.....and then didn't God turn down cain's sacrifice?

doyinbaby:
Wahala for tithe tomuch for nairaland

Lol.......,not really,it only appears like that because that is one of the major controversies of the day in the body of Christ.

petra1:
You're ignorant. Everything has its place .
Prayer has its blessing
almsgiving has its blessing
Tithing has its blessing
Offering has its blessing
Giving to man of God has its blessing
Giving to frlow believers has its blessing
Giving to parents has its blessing
Knowledge of God has it'd blessing
Hard work has its blessing


If you do then you reap the individual blessing they carry. But if you don't you simply lose the blessing they carry

No that's not true,for that will be too magical,....does it mean I can just pick the few ones I like from the list and enjoy the benefits while others are left undone?.......God's dealings with man,most especially the new creature isn't like that......I do not want us to digress,I will be asking you few questions........firstly,will God accept any giving(your tithes,offerings or whatever name you call it) done for Him or in His name if it isn't done willingly?.....and secondly,what is tithe and why do you pay tithe?.........Let's discuss this and then let's be careful with our language,no aggressive words or attack to personalty,for I believe our goal is the same,coming to the knowledge of the truth.

God loves a cheerful giver and He is committed to blessing them in return,If you think your tithe ever worked for you,it worked only because your giving was from a willing heart,because it was done cheerfully,that was how God saw it,you only named it tithe.

You will agree with me that the major problem of the church in this age is lukewarmness,if that is the case,some things must be fast tracking it(lukewarmness)........,things like practices,ritual,doctrine,styles,religion,tradition,culture.....call it whatever you like,that has dominated the church.

In the old testament,the peculiar people had no freedom,they couldn't just do whatever they like as several laws bound them but still, it was easier for them to commit sin,and they did it ceaselessly.The new testament is a different story,the peculiar people i.e regenerated souls are free,can do whatever they like,not bound by laws but still find it difficult to commit sin and hardly offend God.Jesus' work on earth is wonderful.

iamdrfresh:
I guess this is not new to anyone in any church denomination.
It never really occurred to me until today when the pastor said
"Wave your hands to the King of kings, Bless Him!!!"

Is it biblical or one of those things we do out of emotions?

Also can we bless God?
I think d Bible says "the less is blessed of the greater"

These are sincere questions.. Don't add unnecessary meanings to them pls!!!

waving hands is just a sign of worship,if you like you wave,if you like you don't,it's not another commandment o.

Martinez19:
This is not an attempt to disapprove the existence of God as that is not what this write up is about but to bring to light the various ways in which most christians kid themselves there by turning out be somewhat hypocritical. Those who are familiar with christianity know for sure that the God we believe did promise something spectacular which is to do whatsoever we ask in prayer according to his will. If you believe what you read in the bible, then things like healing, raising the dead, making the disabled whole, just to mention a few, are not supposed to be rare in the church even financial success( the eye catcher). But that's not the case.

We christians know that all these do not happen before our very eyes, we don't see any dead person being raised to life, we don't see amputees being restored and it is not uncommon to hear and SEE prayers being unanswered. Despite this, we christians still believe that God can still do all these things we have never seen him do before our eyes. What is now confusing is that the same christians who believe all this, tend to "come to terms with reality" we things get tough. Eg. A faith healer who claims to heal can be seen going to hospital. What is worse is when this faith healer is not confronted to face the fact that he is a faith healer and should lead by example. We just push that aside.

Still on the faith healer, we christians will see him going to hospital but instead of us to smell a rat, we will start rendering prayers of "may the Lord heal you pastor", "get well soon ijn" . When such a faith healer gets well, the same sheeples (christians) still flood his healing crusade---- looking for what if I may ask? Some pastors will dish out prophecies that failed woefully yet the sheeples will defend him despite the fact that bible says that any prophet that prophecies wrongly is not of God. If I may ask, is that not hypocritical. It is not bad to be a Christian but it is sad when you are not intellectually honest and abandon your thinking faculty.

There is something that makes me laugh, that is seeing a Christian taking the appropriate medicine for an illness and praying on it that God should work through it and heal that same illness in Jesus' name Why pray when you have taken the medicine? Or was the medicine meant to grow beans in your anus? When confronted, such christians will say rubbish to support their actions. Some christians who go to hospital will say that doctors, medicine and surgeries of all kinds are God's miracles already. Okay, what about amputees, those smitten with hiv and terminal illness? We see them die like chickens eventually and I ask, where is God's miracle? The highest thing I have seen religion offer is hope. Hope does no good at times and can't be substituted for certainty.

Many christians will be saying that faith moves mountain but you see them shaking when there is a life threatening situation. What shall we say on how they love to exaggerate things for the workings of God? A baby falls from a tall building and is unhurt, people say God did it but if the baby had died, they say shit happens and may his soul rest in peace . When a church collapsed in Uyo, sheeples on nairaland said of those that died that may they rest in the bosom of the Lord but of those that survived, the same people said God saved them and they should thank God .

I could go on and on about how we like to kid ourselves and how hypocritical christians are but I leave that for your contributions.I even opened a topic asking christians on nairaland to list an irrefutable miracle that God has done for them but they avoided the topic unlike the atheist. Shame. I admit that it is no crime to believe in God but it is sad to be intellectually dishonest.

Johnydon22, Hardmirror, donffd, HopefulLandlord and other christians in the house.

Good observation.....but if I may ask,are you a Christian? And do you believe in God?...........Shit happens and that's true.I'm a Christian and God has convincingly shown me His work in my life...you see everything that happens doesn't have to come from God,most mistakes are from the imperfections of man though God steps in some of the time to make some adjustments for reasons best known to Him.I've always told God that there won't be no hyping,my description of Him will be analogous to His work in my life and I relay it to Him in prayers from the sincerity of my heart.Serving God doesn't automatically transform you into a robot and therefore God doesn't have to take responsibility for all that happens to you. Also there is this thing I've got to know about God,though He can do all things,still He doesn't have to do some things,He is organized and He doesn't flaunt His power.

Kay17:
The typical skeptic's response is whether all things that are organized and ordered must come from a creator as an absolute rule. Now if it is not then you have to mention the exceptions.

However if it is an absolute rule then God himself for being supremely ordered and organized cannot escape his need of a creator.

Again the absolute rule would be useless and absurd if it creates an infinite chain of cause and effect.

A conscious mind must have been the mastermind of an organized or ordered thing,well that does rule out the idea that the world just came into existence without no cause.And also this is where my dogma comes in,because I believe in God,He Himself wasn't created.

owoleola:
Though as Christians our beliefs should not be rested on the wisdom of men but in the power of the holy ghost however, I have to say this......was just looking at the human body system,and how organized it is,nature itself,sun's rising and falling,seasons,availability of air,the type needed for respiration and consequently survival....and the likes,could all these have come accidentally or from nowhere?...judging from the level of organization.

Nobody is saying something

With all sincerity I ask this,to the Muslims out there.....,why do you believe in prophet Mohammad and consequently Allah,making Islam the way?....my question is quite simple,so please I need a simple answer too.

Though as Christians our beliefs should not be rested on the wisdom of men but in the power of the holy ghost however, I have to say this......was just looking at the human body system,and how organized it is,nature itself,sun's rising and falling,seasons,availability of air,the type needed for respiration and consequently survival....and the likes,could all these have come accidentally or from nowhere?...judging from the level of organization.

Still don't know how to create a topic