If it's the case of a woman being the perpetrator, Nigerian men would gather to make noise about how she's wayward and a destroyer of lives. Now it's a man, I'm seeing people bringing up bants like "we need evidence" and "competent court of jurisdiction".

Wait till your daughters and sisters experience the same from these men you're defending and watch us ask you for evidence and to wait for a court of competent jurisdiction.

budaatum:

If Jamiu can perform a miracle to "change everything about Jamiu to match what is typical of women right down to the genetic level", who would argue with her that she's not a woman?

We will perform all valid checks to truly ensure a miracle happened however. No one is pulling a TBJ on this lot!

Awesome response

budaatum:

It is a matter of fact, based on valid evidence. Let me show you. I am responding at this moment to comments made by an individual I identify as paraltero because paraltero is how that person identified themself. I will build my own profile of paraltero based on the evidence paraltero presents to me.

You may call it "ease of identification", but it wouldn't be easy if we all named our selves paraltero.


We do address everyone as they want to. I want to be addressed as buda so I name myself buda, you want to be addressed as paraltero so you name yourself paraltero, but we don't go about naming ourselves doctors even if we were wearing lab coats because we know lab coats does not a doctor make.

Its to do with context. If I'm dying in the middle of the road and someone in a lab coat, or not, comes up and says, "I am doctor", I'd hardly argue. But if I'm hiring a doctor for a position in a hospital, lab coat would not do. Same with gender. If one were born a Sikiru and wants to be Sikira, one just tells everyone and only answers to Sikira from now on. But if Sikira commits a crime or is in an accident and we need to operate, would it make no difference if we were operating on Sikira or Sikiru or throwing a Sikiru in a Sikira jail?

You have made valid points. However my point is that if, say, Jamiu decides to identify as a woman and it is possible to change everything about Jamiu to match what is typical of women right down to the genetic level, would it still be right to call Jamiu a man?

budaatum:

The same reason we are not all called paraltero, or buda, and tables and elephants! So as to differentiate one from the other. That's at least one reason why individual identity matters. And not just by name, but also the attributes that we are naming.

So you're saying it's not a matter of truth or fact or defaults or all that jazz. It's just for ease of identification.

But that being said, why not just address someone as what he/she/it wants? I mean, it's like saying anyone in a lab coat is a doctor simply because doctors are known for wearing lab coats. If you address a scientist as a doctor because you saw him in a hospital wearing his lab coat and he takes offence, would you blame him?

johnydon22:


Facts (Reality)
Definitions (in terms of ideas)
Logic (Improves likelihood of a truthful approximation)

So, the question should be What or how is truth determined.

Who is begging the question because it already assumes a who determines truth.

Humans don't determine objective truth, they observe it. And in Aristotle's quote "Asserting that, that which is, is, is true. Asserting that, that, which is not, is, is false.

But if they observe it then it's still down to human perception.

We see black as black because it's what, y'know, see. How can we tell that's the real color, and not just what we perceive it to be.

This is basically saying "I see it so it must be true", not taking into cognizance how frequently perception fails us.

Also, if you know your science, then you know that humanity is on a continuous journey of discovery. And as a result, nothing is absolutely true and everything is completely possible. That science has not found a biological or psychological reason why someone looks a certain way but identifies as something different does not mean it's naturally impossible or that it's wrong.

Science only tells you it has an explanation it strongly believes in based on the available evidence. It never tells you with absolute certainty that anything is and will always be a certain way.

budaatum:

Neither, if one has any sense. Identifying oneself is pointless. And the identity others have of one depends on their ability to see, which, however good they see, is insufficient to identify one fully.

So if the neither is valid, why does what an individual identify as matter to you?

johnydon22:
Nope, I'm not. There trinities such as
1. Facts
2. Logic
3. Definitions


Nope. Argumentum ad populum doesn't necessarily mean true.

Truth is truth whether the whole world doesn't believe it.
Lie is a lie whether everyone believes it.

So, a man believing he is a dog, is obviously believing a lie hence deluded.

Whether the whole world agrees with him on this or not has no bearing on the objective fact in consideration.

Belief has no bearing on truth in the face of facts.

Okay, so who decides what is true?

johnydon22:
True. They just have to be elementarily wrong (something that such a person discussing a subject should know about the subject but doesn't) to be infantile.


You can simply show the person how and why their statement is naive which i did.

Again, no one is impervious to frustration over naive comments on a subject you supposedly are discussing.

naïveté isn't necessarily a bad thing.

It may be naïve to you but then you're neither an authority nor the person who makes the rules.

This kind of ties into my position. You say you're right. You believe you're right. If I gather 20 people and they all agree that you're wrong, are you wrong or still right?

Horus:


The real reason why he called off the attacks is the financial cost of a new war that the US cannot afford

It's not just about Iran. They have alies who can more or less match the US' firepower. If a war were to breakout, it's Iran's allies that could deal some damage, not Iran themselves.

If it were just a question of Iran, the US can make short work of them.

Also, there are still reports of Iran possibly still having an active nuclear program. They may not win but the damage they can cause if they do have nuclear weapons would be astronomical.

johnydon22:


Non-arbitrary identities aren't granted by anyone.

This question is completely non sequitur.

Here's a small analogy. If I wear an outfit and I say it looks good but 10 people say it doesn't, who is right?

johnydon22:


Frustration over very infantile or naive comments happen from time to time.

I'm not impervious to such feelings on the extreme cases.

That you don't agree with my assertions don't make them infantile or naïve. You can't be judge, jury AND plaintiff. I've been civil throughout this discussion but hey, guess I can't expect everyone else to be the same.

budaatum:

"If there is no default, no template, no standard" a table is a elephant.

Agree?


No its very not "the exact same on people use to attack gay people"!

Identity is the reason that we name things, put them in little boxes so to say as a form of organising so that if one says to you "put the cup on the table", you don't go looking for elephants as you've done here!

Discriminating against gay people is not the same as calling a spade a spade. I can identify you as an African and manage not to be a racist!


Identity is unique! Nobody will mistake anyone else for buda. And it is those very unique biology as observed through the use of the senses that we identify and as the best fall back so far until we see better with those senses and change positions. But until we change positions, tables are indeed tables - except to those who imagine elephants in their heads, I guess.

Quick question: which identity is more valid; the identity people have of themselves or the identity other people give them?

johnydon22:


A discussion contemplating two distinct points carried by two or more agent is an argument.

Argument doesn't mean aggression. It means a distinct point or reason

Well you've introduced an element of agression and I'm not about that life.

johnydon22:
Jesus! To be honest, statements as this makes me want to hit my head on the wall, it shows the person I'm discussing with either have not given what he is saying a great deal of thought or he downright don't understand it enough to discuss it.

Let me try one more time to break this to the utmost elementary level.

Identity in fact is and can be factual.

There are two types of identity.

1. Non-arbitrary identity
2. Arbitrary identity

1. Non-arbitrary identities are the type of identities that have inherent qualities grounded in physical reality. E.g; Mammal, lion, cat, human, vertebrae, male, female, Caucasian etc.

You don't decide this for yourself, you simply find it out because this identifies are inherent physical reality.

You are not human because you said you are, you are human because you are a homo sapien - A definite state of being.

You cannot be a lion because you simply aren't a lion, you cannot be a horse, you cannot be a snake - This type of identity isn't interchangeable since it isn't personal in the first place, you simply fall into a distinct physical characterization.

This is factual.

2. Non-arbitrary identity - Types of identity not grounded in objective inherent physical definition or characterization.

Name
Country
Title
Etc.

And even though this is more of a belief and less of an objective, it can also be factual

Here is how; President of the republic of Nigeria is an arbitrary identity.

You are not the president of Nigeria.

If you are say you are - This is factually incorrect

Uuuuhm No, it can be self granted in some cases of arbitrary identities but non arbitrary identities aren't self granted.

The perception of identity can be factually incorrect or correct.

If a human believes he is a dog, he isn't a dog, he is simply a human who believes he is a dog. Belief have no bearing on reality.

Delusion: Belief in something that has been shown to be factually incorrect.

A human who believes he is a dog, is factually human, so his belief is factually incorrect.

At best, he is deluded, at worse, mentally deranged.

If you believe you are the president of Nigeria now, you are factually incorrect, hence subject to delusion.



Lol. Humans have 10 fingers, it is ok to have 12 but it doesn't mean it's not an anomaly.

Humans have 1 head, a tiny minority come with an aberration of having 2, it's an abnormality.

Humans have 46 chromosomes total from both parents, some have more (down syndrome) it's ok, but it's an aberration.

Biological abnormalities happen.
Mental abnormalities happen.

Saying something is biologicallly an anomaly isn't same as saying it is not okay.

Jesus! The day truth becomes an attack and needs to be shushed to protect feelings, we become a society ruled by lies.

Which why many people here are atheistic or skeptics.

Stop the strawman, this your argument have no bearing on what we are discussing, neither is it relevant. It is a totally different argument.

Statements of facts aren't moral positions. Nawa o.

Premise oga, stick with the premise

Budaatum, see what you talked about people manufacturing something that isn't your argument in their head and arguing over it?

#Sighs. What is your argument here?

Pretty sure i have shown you how identity works and how it can be factual or not

Yes. Because there is a difference between "I want to be this" and "I am this"

If you even understood the argument, this question wouldn't be necessary

It's supposed to be a discussion not an argument. If you choose to make an argument out of it, hey, you're right. We can end it now.

johnydon22:
Delusion is believing you are this when you are not.

Uuuhm, No. Identity is mental.

And identity can either be factually wrong or right.

Exactly and when your mental perception of yourself is factually incorrect, it's delusion and mental problem at worse.

If your mentally see yourself as a horse, it doesn't make you a horse but it affirms something is mentally off with you.



Human sex is biological
Identity is mental.

Identity can either be factually correct or not - A human who knows he's human is factually correct.

A human who believes he is a dog is factually incorrect.

When identity isn't factually correct, it's delusion at best and mental problem at worse.

Imagine the false equivalence. Lol.

But when it comes to identity, there is no fact! Identity's uniqueness is that it is whatever it is. There is no default, no template, no standard. All identities differ, no matter how slight the differences might be. So if there is no standard for is, how can you tell something isn't? So if a human believes he is a dog, then by all intents and purposes, he is a dog mentally.

Your position is the exact same on people use to attack gay people, talking about "oh, most humans are straight so being straight is the standard and homosexuality isn't natural so you guys are wrong and abnormal". This even after homosexuality has been shown to exist in nearly every species. That something isn't usual doesn't make it unnatural, but that's a digression.

If it's taken that identity is unque and there's no true state for identity, it means all your position falls back to biology. Now I asked if your position is still tenable if human biology itself can be changed.

johnydon22:



Yes. I'd still think is

I'd simply agree that sex can be changed.

Just like if science gets to the point, you can be changed into a dog.

I'd agree that you can be changed into a dog but maintain that the initial part where you as a human believe you arw a dog is delusion

So what then makes the sex of a person? If you agree that sex is set at the chromosomal level, then it's no longer a delusion if someonce can change that, right?

However, I'm getting the impression that you feel sex is set at both the chromosomal level and the mental/conscious level too. However, consciousness is sexless and genderless. It can be anything at any time. It's our consciousness that chooses how we percieve ourselves at any time and if our conscious self decides it's a horse, and the subconscious agrees with it, then for all intents and purposes, the person is mentally a horse, no matter what anatomy, physiology and morphology say.

So it still boils down to chromosomes and if that can be tweaked, I don't believe there's delusion.

It's like saying because someone has undergone a kidney transplant, the person is kidney-less because the kidney that's now there is not the one the person came with. Is it the person's original kidney? No. Does the person have a kidney? Of course!

johnydon22:
Lol. Very simple: any belief that isn't factually correct is delusion

actually it isn't and to think so is delusion.

Human sex is right down at the chromosonal level. Cutting my dick or implanting a breast doesn't make me female anymore than sticking a tail makes me a dog.

Human sex isn't cosmetic, it is in the DNA, cutting of a dick or wearing a lipstick doesn't change XY or XX if you think it does then there you have it.

Point made

Actually, they were blacklisted because of the polical nature of the concept they refuse to subscribe to which is a perversion of biological reality.

I think this reply has eventually put my post into perspective how delusion can be informed with the word "science said" as much as it can be with "God said"

Question: if in the future, science advances to the point where you can do a sex change right down to the chromosomal level, would you still think transgenderism is a delusion?

SageMK:
You can't challenge your boss's idea at your work place and expect to get away with it unscathed. Don't be silly.

So it's not about what is right or godly anymore. It's about what pastor sats and that it must be correct.

If he built it from his personal funds then good job. I mean, I'm sure has enough to build better but it's a start.

If he used public funds though....then I'm very suspicious of it

Jmk9292:
The society keeps getting rotten.......

The society has been rotten since. The internet is just exposing exactly how rotten it is and has been.

wait, is that guy wearing shorts to be sworn in as a HOA leader?

This country is comical!

ThothHermes:
The vast majority yes. The rod of correction would have put them on the straight and narrow. Seeing how you have included "beaten senseless" into the matter That's a strawman right there. People usually do it when they are clutching onto things. Desperation The child you love is the one that you correct. It's a sign of love. So much bullcrap in one sentence.

Where did I say I was "disdainful" of the West. You dey learn English
Is it because they don't beat their kids that they invented those things Na wa o
"Post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy is what you are committing here. You that was not beaten, where is your own Google, Apple or Microsoft

Everyone should.
You are welcome.

Again, your issue with feminism is your personal problem. Everyone else is free to believe or oppose what they want.

Wait, the touts and other elements were not beaten as kids? For someone using countless terms you assume I don't understand to try to pick holes in my argument, you sure are interested in creating gaping holes in yours. Where did you get your stats from? Were you the parent that didn't discipline them?

Hey, I was beaten as a child. Care to show me my Microsoft or Apple that should automatically have come from being beaten?

You are clearly disdainful of the west. You criticize their system of parenting and consistently compare them in bad light with their Asian counterparts - which is funny because Africans are rather well-known for child beating but you failed to use Africa as your point of comparison. Any specific reason why or you just know it would poke major holes in your argument. Majority of the Africans doing well internationally are those that have gone to these places and adopted these cultures you have such a problem with. Chimamanda, a well-known feminist keeps doing better and better even while y'all are down here, hating on her for her feminism. Your Nigerians abroad are now feminists or gay rights supporters and are doing well. Y'all are here being homophobic, misogynistic fellows, championed by the likes of Reno Omokri whose current, and at this point only, claim to fame is working with the past government. Shey being misogynistic and having god complexes in the name of culture fixes everything. Marriages are still failing left, right and center. Your kids are championing internet fraud and are exporting cultism abroad with a side hustle exporting drugs as well. Your society is bleeped so again, I ask you, what is that culture doing for you?

ThothHermes:
People like you always think it is proper to denigrate your values you want to sound modern. The world does not end in the West. Take Japan for example, it's a country steeped in culture, respect for elders being a strong part of it. Has it stopped Japan from developing??
Can you demonstrate this with examples, or are you just yapping as usual? I know you can't. Na just talk. You want to sound enlightened.
Which part of our culture says this? Pulling out things from your ass abi?

They are. Asking your father to do the dishes is disrespectful anyway you try to analyse it. Western values are not always right. Apart from the West, mention one other place on the planet where this would be permissible. I'm not holding my breath. I know say you no fit.

Some men by their nature love the kitchen. Your father was not compelled. And I'm pretty certain this dish washing was not an everyday occurrence. Wetin una go dey do if him dey wash plate

Oyinbo wannabe

Shhhiiiiiiooooorrrrr

Also, in case you missed it, the world IS modern. You guys refuse to modernize with the world and that's also why the country is the way it is. Everyone stuck in old ways of thinking and old ways of behaviour, thinking it would advance them in a modern world.

If you like, go abroad and work for someone younger than you, then insist they call you sir and greet you every morning because you're older. Watch how you and your "respect" would be tossed out.

ThothHermes:
Bla bla bla...

Mechionu dia
"Spare the rod and spoil the child" -- Bible
This is ancient wisdom. Tested and trusted. The rod is an always effective method of straightening an errant child. Which yeye resentment. What are some of these issues that you think the rod cannot correct and what other ways do you think will be more effective?


Feminism is crap. Feminists are mostly dumb wannabes. I am willing to press the issue with you if you possess the heft. I know you don't.
Your move dude.


PS: The word "severally" is misused in that sentence.
Check your dictionary and thank me later.

Oh, so all those touts, robbers, fraudsters and every other criminal element was not beaten as a child, right? And every successful person was beaten senseless apparently, necause treating your kids like goats makes so much sense. The things you guys put your kids through....I wonder uf you love them at all. You destroy their sense of self-worth, turn them to your lifeling slaves and retirement plans, don't care if they're happy so long as you get "respect".

The west you're so disdainful of keeps churning out trailblazers in science, research, education, law, business and pretty much everything good you use. You guys are here beating kids and demanding respect upandan, producing employees for the same west and internet fraudsters. Why hasn't your flogging created Google or Apple or Microsoft?

You clearly have an issue with feminism. That is not my business.

Thank you for the correction.

ThothHermes:
People like you always think it is proper to denigrate your values you want to sound modern. The world does not end in the West. Take Japan for example, it's a country steeped in culture, respect for elders being a strong part of it. Has it stopped Japan from developing??
Can you demonstrate this with examples, or are you just yapping as usual? I know you can't. Na just talk. You want to sound enlightened.
Which part of our culture says this? Pulling out things from your ass abi?

They are. Asking your father to do the dishes is disrespectful anyway you try to analyse it. Western values are not always right. Apart from the West, mention one other place on the planet where this would be permissible. I'm not holding my breath. I know say you no fit.

Some men by their nature love the kitchen. Your father was not compelled. And I'm pretty certain this dish washing was not an everyday occurrence. Wetin una go dey do if him dey wash plate

Oyinbo wannabe

Shhhiiiiiiooooorrrrr

I'll start from the last.

If one man can do dishes in his own house even with a wife and kids, please tell me again, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL IN TAKING CARE OF DISHES? Besides, where in the post did it state that she compelled him to or you just drew that out of thin air? See, just admit you want to be lord god and master over your kids instead of fronting this whole defender of the culture thing. It doesn't become you.

Next up, I'm not trying to copy any western whatever. This is what I've learnt from my father's behaviour and this is the example I'll set for my kids. No one is too big to be asked for help. I don't know what you've learnt from yours but this is what I've learnt from my dad. You guys would raise kids that are too scared to ask for your help. Later you complain that those kids don't confide in you or only ask you as a last resort. It's not a western thing. It's adynamic between parents and children that can and does exist across the world depending on what relationship kids have with their parents. If you want to be so cultured, hey, go back to wearing rafia or killing twins. That should certainly please your cultural taste. You're using technology they made, wearing clothes they sold to you, listening to their music and watching their movies, speaking their language too. But I'm the oyinbo wannabe. Try another line.

LilMissFavvy:
Who cares? Stupidass.....I don't chat with everyone, get off my mentions.

Ignore it. It will go away.

ThothHermes:
So your papa go wash plate

You dey mad no be small.

You guys are disappointing me with your insults. This can't be your worst. Dig deep, you'll find something better.

FIFA is a fraud

Lleigh:


We will get shouted at but this is what is happening right now to children. Someone was saying the exact thing recently. Her words were why do you think most Nigerian children are not close to their children? But the house I grew up in my father cooked and when visits me there is nothing in the sink. I wash up as I go anyway, and I also get a do you want me to make the rice for dinner. If we can't speak to our parents for help who do we speak to. Or will you say a child should never ask her father to feed his grandchild.
If we don't change we will be raising children the same way, we were raised that was wrong. But the parents did it because of the way the were raised...

Imagine the curses rained on kids all because they did something wrong a child would do. Or the implements used to punish us as kids is it still right to use electrical wire on a child all in the name of discipline.

Anyway, there could be more to the story.

Spot on! And I'm trying to make these ones see why that cycle needs to be broken but no. They want to do the same thing so they can take out their frustrations from they were raised on their own kids.

I recently asked why people always say stuff like "I appreciate the beating my parents gave me. It made me a better person" but never say "I appreciate the beating I got from my maths teacher. It made me a better student". Everyone wants to absolve their larents of any toxic behaviour. However, the suppresed resentment is still there and they end up taking out on their kids. It's the reason why if you ask the average Nigerian youth how they intend to tackle any issues their child may have, beatings are always in the top three.

As for the last line, I've said that severally. We don't know the full story. But Nairalanders as always just want to be pressed and are looking for another reason to bash feminism so they've adjudged her guilty even though they don't know the full story.

[quote author=obinnawhyte post=79419029][/quote]

You know there are better insults out there that hit harder. "Fool" and "stupid" are child's play. You can do much better.

willy2000:


How do you ask someone older than you, to do his/her dishes? This is simple home training 101.

I want to believe that you are not Nigerian or not cultured as a Nigerian.
Below is a simple and basic character of a well-groomed Nigerian child.


When you wake up in the morning, you greet your parents/elders. I hope you do this/have done this .
After eating your meal, you have to appreciate your parent/elders. (it is their responsibility) But the lesson here is, APPRECIATION
Whenever you receive gifts, APPRECIATE! Say the magic words Thank you.
Make your bed, when you wake up.
Wash the dishes if there are any. Male children may be lacking here if they have elder sisters; there is an exception to this.


So if you really have the above traits. How and why should you ask your father to wash his dishes after eating? Let us not discuss who owns the house and pays the rent.

First off; Nigerians and culture? Hah! What culture and who that culture epp? Let the culture develop the country na. Let me tell you, part of the reason Nigeria is not developing is because of that same culture. Today, you guys are screaming "#NotTooYoungToRun", forgetting that it's the mentality that only elderly people are wise or smart enough to be leaders that has brought us to the point where those elderly people don't want to leave leadership positions, always claiming that "the youth are not ready". All this inspite of the fact that younger and younger people have taken up leadership positions in developed countries and have performed as good as and sometimes better than their elderly counterparts. But no, keep with the culture that says nobody has a voice till they're like 50.

Also, respect and asking elders to help with tasks are not mutually exclusive. It's only emotionally insecure people that think they are.

Edit: I only just saw what you said about male children. Are you for real? Male kids should only wash dishes if they are the younger child not older? No wonder Nigerian men feel so entitled! Every single one of my kids would do dishes on a roster. All of them will learn how to take care of the house and thenselves. I will join in too, so they learn that being the father doesn't exempt you from household responsibilities. All of these I learnt from my dad. My dad could just be passing through the kitchen and would see a dish in the sink. He would wash it - despite it not being his, then call whoever left it and instruct them to wash their dishes after use. Till date, I wash my own dishes. He still does it too, whether we are at home or not. So again, what is the big deal? If my dad could do it, why can't I?

willy2000:


Like seriously, how old are you?
Do you have a family/parent or you grew up in an Orphanage home?
I am truly amazed and ashamed of your thought pattern.

I won't reply to mentions anymore.
I

I would greatly appreciate that