₦airaland Forum

@demmy
'These showed what? Have you ever pondered why things turned out the way they are today or you're simply lamenting and having colonial nostalgia'.
It showed that the Brits managed the educational system,the health system better than they are now.
So answer why did things turn out the way they did.Am a product of that university system,and I know the Brits were not responsible for the bastardization of the system.
'Why don't you ask  Enahoro why he made a motion for Nigeria independence'
It will be better still if you can lay your hand on one of the interviews granted by the old man lately and read of his lamentations of the state of things in Nigeria.I've read some  and you will hear him talk of his disappointment about the blasted hope Nigeria is.

Yea, got it thanks.Meant to say colonial times

@demmy
[quoteyou can't mean precolonial times,can you?]Of course it means precolonial times.IWhy don't you talk to your grannies and ask them to tell you about their lives under the British.The system  worked better than now.
Let's take educational system for instance.The university of Ibadan in the 50's and 60's even up to 1970's was a pride not just of Nigeria,but the whole of the commonwealth.The graduates of UI then compared favourably to graduates elsewhere.What is the state of things there today?Try to find out when the rot set in.
What of the health system? a classmate of mine told me about the discussion she had with her grandfather who had limited education but lived under the British rule.He had gone to one of those hospitals established many years ago and he was not able to get help.The standard had fallen so badly compared to what it was before independence.The old man, according to my colleague asked her what was the use of the independence if it means one cannot even get drugs from the hospital,something that didnt happen when the Brits were in charge.

Please,when are we going to stop blaming colonialism for our woes.I know it's part of the baggage we must contend with but for heaven sake the Brits were in Asia,but today the Asians can now hold their heads high.We don't have to even go far we can look at some fellow African countries like Ghana and Botswana.
Is it colonialism that is responsible for large scale looting of our wealth and stashing it abroad while people languish in abject poverty?
Imagine the amount of money Abacha alone(and we know this because he died) looted put to education,health,power generation etc
I think on a deeper level,certainly for me,the purpose of this discussion is not about bringing the Brits back but about asking ourselves, why can't we be fairer to ourselves as a people and make the country a habitable place for everybody.

Even though Nigeria as it is at the moment is just one big tragedy,and I rave about its many anomalies,deep within me, I've never wished am from somewhere else.I guess I would say with so much sorrow that am proud to be a Nigerian.

It's getting so heated up here!
Let's not get too emotive,otherwise we will muddle up issues.
It's not about superiority of a race above the others,it's about colonization and its effects.
I for one has never believed that one race or ethnic group is superior to the other,although you cannot doubt that some groups of people have achieved than the others.One can put it down to history,enviroment,culture,opportunity,indeed an array of external factors.
Did anything good come out of colonialism with all its shortcomings? I would still say yes,without any fear of contradiction.
The facts are all there for all to see.
The view t4cash expressed about people voting for the whites to come back is not new.It only shows how despodent we are about how we've mismanaged  our affairs after decolonization.
Tai Solarin,the renowned critic, once said he would reccommend that the UN come and take over Africa and run it out of frustration years ago,just because of the way things were going then,it's not better even now.(Is UN not helping Chad to manage its new found oil wealth just to avoid the failure Nigeria is despite its oil?)
Sometimes I talk with some old people that lived under the white rule and I hear them expresssing the same sentiments.
Many of them believe that life under the British was better than what we have now with the self rule.
I doubt if there was any evil  the white people did that we're not doing it to ourselves on a larger scale.
Why is everybody running out of Nigeria to Europe and America despite all the indignities we suffer abroad. Go to the embassies in Lagos and Abuja and see.
I hold this view that Nigeria is a shame and an embarassment to the black race.

obong:
great post pearl

Thanks my bros!

It's a very complex but an interesting topic.I tend to agree more with Nnenna and t4cash,although I also appreciate the other points of view.
History seems to follow a predetermined end in an inexorable sort of way.
I hold the view that despite all the evils of slave trade,colonialism there were some benefits that accrued from it.
Let's be frank,there was little idyllic in the way people lived before the Europeans came.You could still see the traces of this in the way some indigenous groups(e.g Koma people) who had no contact with the colonialists, live up till today.What's so special about it?
Why did we rush to the hills to give them clothings and establish 'western' schools for them instead of allowing them to roam free in those hills untainted by 'western civilization'?What of those horrible practices(killing of twins,canibalism,burying of human beings with kings etc) that were stopped by the Europeans?
Even up till today,you could still see the benefits(I dare say) of early contacts with the Western influence in Nigeria.The groups in the south that had the earliest contacts with the missionaries are better off for it.The Yorubas,the Ibos etc
Even among the Yorubas,check out  Ogun state and you will admit that they benefited much from the activities of the missionaries.Also, Anambra people from the east are far ahead in the same way.
To say colonialism was all evil without some good is not only shallow,it's intellectual dishonesty.

It's obvious now that this bunkbobo fellow has to direct his brillance and persuasive power to something else.
The practice of paying bride price varies even in the different societies where it's practised.
The first time I heard some of my classmates declared, 'nobody is paying any bride practice or dowry on me' I was shocked,because I had sisters who got married and their husbands/in-laws pay dowries on them and I'd never seen anything wrong with it,even now.
Well,I tried to understand that they were bro't up with different orientation from mine although their argument didnt sway me one bit,even when they lamely tried to use the bible.
I pointed to them that cultures are different,even the Jews have it in their culture.
My own attitude is if I'm marrying a lady and its part of their culture I'll do it(if I have the money!),on the other hand if she's a 'Westernized' sort of person whose family don't do it,then its just as well.
Granted,it could be abused(commercialized),but on the whole it's not in anyway demeaning as most of the women here have said.

idiot:
cancer cells have more life than the embryo at this point. . .doesn't stop people from killing them with all their might

That should count as one of the most truly idiotic,asinine  statement ever uttered on this forum.
How can you compare a life growing in the human body,  the crown beauty of creation, a marvel even to modern science;something that many couples  pray for and celebrate with joy and gratitude,how can you compare it with destructive cancer cells?
The product of further division of cancer cells in its victim is death,whereas the product of further division of the embryo is  life,the type you came from,no matter how you disparage it.
Its a shameful ignorance or irresponsible mischief!

Uhn,that's the best o my sister!

Yes it's possible.
But obviously He works in different ways.Not everybody got his spouse the same way.

I'll answer.

I guess 'falling in love' means different thing to different people.

If I like her, I'll say yes,If I dont 'no'.
It's as simple as that,just the way they make their choice when they're proposed to.

omon:
The first the contact I had with my wife was done online. Today, we are happily married

Congrats! u're one in a million

Astrology is the refuge of the insecure.
Think of something worthwhile to occupy yourself with.

Both of them occupy special places in my life.
I find it cruel to be asked to choose between the two of them.

I read a qoute sometimes ago.'ONE SHOULD NEVER BEAT A WOMAN,NOT EVEN WITH A FLOWER!'
and I believe it.
Granted, some women could be impossible,'razor mouth'and all,but I still like to think a man that beats his wife is a brute(for want of a more acceptable word)

idiot:
she said two months, not 7, there is no child to speak of. At this point, you must decide

Wrong!
If u say u don't mind having abortion for whatever reason,just say that without dishonesty.
At 2 months,the baby has its identity, even heart beat.

beyonce1:
Banke issues of this sought needs to be looked into not only for 2day ,  but 4  future purpose,  if I was in your situation I would want to drop my past and move on to a better new life not carry on with the memories for the rest of my life, and mind you from generation to generation,  I mean if u had wanted 2 be 100% holy u wouldn't have slept with d boy before marriage anyway,  I do not believe an early abortion is killing ,  It is an unwanted pregnancy,  an early stage blot clott ,  which still has d tendency of being shed as a normal period,  Things can never remain the same with u both NATURALLY again,  so why bring an innocent child into this? I think the victim here would be the unborn child who would suffer all the consequences and this would be the greatest sin 'because it goes on ,  Life goes on if u leave this boy, u need to cut all the attachments so u can be free ,  everyone has a right / choice to a lifetime joy,  why should u give your baby up for adoption or turn into a single parent ? disabled, for the rest of your life all because of an irresponsible/unreliable man,   it's all a matter of a decision on time,  and,  you'll get over it, time heals and,  just be honest about it,  Would this be your first abortion ?

Your logic is shoddy and horribly twisted. 'an early stage blood clot' is devoid of  fact supported by science.
There are countless women who had babies outside wedlock(as some have admitted on this forum) and they're happy today they kept their children looking back.It might be tough but it's worth it.

It's normal to cry.It's an ultimate betrayal.
Pregancy out of wedlock is bad enough,but even at that abortion is worse.
What of the guilt of killing an innocent child?
Dont be rash in your decisions.
Your sister is your blood whatever happens,the boy isnt yet a relation,he could just go.
As for the child,u could give it up for adoption.There many couples out there who could shower it with love in case u're not able.
Trust God to help u pick up the pieces of your life if u believe in Him.And time also does heal some wounds.

Anyway, you can try surulere,around Havana hospital or CMS around Odulami street. Dont get cheated; there are a lot of 'Area boys' loitering around there swindling people. Make sure you follow them to their office, preferably go for the Hausa guys not 'alayes', even that is not 100% guarantee. Bottomline - don't get fooled.

alheri:
Very intelligent response there pearl2. Lots of insights in your post there.

Thanks

allonym:
Just because someone says something is bad, doesn't mean it is. What about all the people who would "confess" that it worked out for them. Should we discount what they say as well?

Of course not.Even in other things in life,not everybody follows the general pattern.Some people,cheated in school instead of working hard and it worked for them.Some people got their wealth through shady deals,it worked for them.Others still, take to crime and it worked for them.So u will always have people that will live their lives on the margin whatever anybody may say.But simply because it appears to work for those doesnt mean we should recommend it for everybody;else, there would be chaos and anarchy in the society.
You have to look at the statistics.Why is there so much failure of the marriage institution in the western world?
I remember the response of one of those European coaches years ago,when he was asked why he chose to marry in Africa.He said he preferred the marriage institution as it still operates in Africa,because he sees in it most of the values that have disappeared in Europe.

Well,he we hope they all succeed,Mantu and the governors.The Nigerian people would be the gainers(killed 2 birds with one stone).We don't want the immunity clause,neither do we want the 3rd term!

I have to say kudos to Ijebuman for a well marshalled argument.
The portrayal of Africa,despite all the problems we know we have is not fair enough.Unfortunately,this stereotype stays in the mind of people in the Western world.
I read an interesting write-up sometimes ago in a NIJA paper about some kids from a college in the US bro't to Senegal on exchange programme or something.When they got to the airport,they were surprised to see fine cars coming to collect them.They told their teachers theywere expecting to see donkeys come and convey them,they didnt know there were cars in Africa!
This is just a,well, funny one.The stereotypical images of Africa takes on more pernicious form.
But I still like to think that we Africans are not doing enough for ourselves.

@calabarman.
I can see your problem.U already have your preconceived conclusion of the subject matter and then u go to town,looking for other people to help u substantiate your stance.That's pitiable.
The fact that many people take on the new practice on campuses doesnt make it right,u've heard from someone that has been into it even having the courage to condemn it.Fews weeks ago,a lady confess the peoblem her friend was having to me,after the lady in question stayed for a boy for almost 2 years dreaming marriage,he kicked her out into the cold,now she's heartbroken seeking counselling.
Another boy I know cohabited in service year,messed up girls and went for a new girl to get married to.Later he confessed to somebody he wouldnt want his own sister to indulge in a such a practice.I think it satisfies the burning lust of the boys, without the option of commitment.I don't know if u have a sister,would u be happy if someone treat your sister like that? The practice demeans the dignity of the womenfolk.
I for one would not want  my own sister to be so treated.
So no matter how common the practice is, it's still morally wrong.Most of the girls from respectable homes,brought up decently will not do it.Some do it without the knowledge of their parents of course.
I hope this is 'real' enough for you.

Not a rumour at all.I remember reading that piece of info years ago in Nija in one of the papers.I think it was this man,Madaras or what's his name,the publisher of that glossy magazine,African soccer.He was one of the judges,and he revealed that piece of info years after the voting was done.The top contenders then in 96 were the bull and Papilo,but they felt since Kanu was just diagnosed with a heart disease and may not be able to play again it's better to give it to him and Amokachi could win it in another year.

Undoubtedly,Amokachi was a player of class.Even when I saw his pics above,the memories of his exploits in the 90's came rushing back.And I felt sad again he didnt play for long(just like Amuneke).How could one forget the shout of 'the bull' as he dismantled defenses with his unequalled strength and unrivalled aggresiveness in any Nigerian squad.Remember his goal against Bulgaria in USA 94,only few strikers possess the toughness to score that kind of goal.

I can't remember clearly now if it was the same Madaras  that mentioned that the award was given to Mustapha Hadji(98) from Morocco instead of Okocha,because of a bicycle kick of  a goal he scored.They've been proven to be short sighted considering that Hadji faded away after France 1998,and JJ has had more impact on African soccer than Hadji.Sadly Okocha may never win it again.

Yekinni-still the deadliest striker of all time from Nija

Kanu-probably has more laurels and more impactful playing time in the top flight( than other gifted ones like Amuneke,Finidi,Amokachi.Remember one of the African player award given to Kanu was supoz to be for the bull,but was given to Papilo because of his heart problem,since in the reckoning of the 'far sighted' judges, Amokachi would play longer and could still have the chance to win it ,but kanu proved them wrong!)

Of course, JJ Okocha.

I would say its a tough one to make.But if forced,may be I would go for Kanu,on another day I would go for Okocha.

Are u just being plain mischievous or downright confused?
If Martins were from Calabar area,there might have been a reason for ambiguity since that part is close to Bakassi.
But he's a typical Lagosian who I learnt grew up in Orile in Lagos.His family are in Lagos and known.His father I think, died 2 or 3 years ago there in Lagos.Played football with people like Makinwa till Oliseh's brother reportedly helped him to Italy.

As for Eto'o,am still surprise by the story I read recently credited to people supposedly related to him in Nija,that his father 's name is Okwa and he took the name of the person who helped him.
The story sounds pretty convincing.I know some footballers who have done it before.I was surprised for instance when I learnt that Celestine and Emmanuel Babayaro are Ibo boys(brothers)who grew up in Kaduna and took the name of their benefactor.

The one that still puzzles me is Michael Essien.Now Essien is a well known Calabar name.Even before he became well known(while in France), somebody told me he's a Nija boy who conveniently travelled to Europe with a Ghanian passport,hence his claim of Ghana.
But the snag there is that he  played for Ghanian junior team.
Like I told one Ghanian,if it was Kofi,Asamoah,there wouldnt have been any reason for confusion,but Essien is one of the most popular Calabar name u can ever get.But the Ghanian friend in question told me there is a small ethnic group in Ghana that answers Essien.I didnt argue with him,but I still have doubts,does anyone have a clue?