₦airaland Forum

adconline: Don't mind his kukere economics. A teacher who does not the meaning of examples. The worlds biggest public expenditure was on the US interstate highway system, why didn't private companies fund it? Largest expenditure on power in Africa is being funded by several African govts not private companies. Peeps who have never taken any risk to run a beer joint/strip club always shout the loudest about free market.

I've taken plenty of risk, my uncle is into mining and i invested

What have you done?

You guys are just not educated enough... that is why i don't like debating people who are not smart. I will always end up carrying you along in the discussion.

"we want examples bla bla bla, that examples is too old bla bla bla, that was a colony bla bla bla, that doesnt count bla bla bla"


Until i post a link of 23 private companies that have contributed to Englands infrastructure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_operating_trains_in_the_United_Kingdom

If you want to debate something, do your gotdamn research, and dont ask your opponent to teach you.

they didn't build infrastructure with their own funds. Please provide examples or concede graciously.

Concede graciously, are you kidding me look guys... i've given you enough examples, i'm not your fuckin teacher ok?
The way you people are behaving is going to make this discussion go left very fast.

What more could you want: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Indian_Railway_Company That was a british joint-stock company that built railroads all across India, privately financing everything.

At this point, take it or leave it.

w'are done here. Next

Like i said earlier, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe development creates a better government before the government returns the favor?

When it was not an entirely private initiative, but a collaboration with govt. Why it has not been replicated in modern times?
Name them and public projects done by private companies for public use .

Toll bridges, toll roads, railroads, ferry boats etc.

The word "public" is an attempt to strawman my arugment. I never said private companies should provide un-profitable social services, thats not the way the free market works. The goal is profit, and as a result of this quest for profit important social/business needs are addressed and the whole country benefits.

mixed capitalism works in Nigeria, but the govt has failed to provide basic infrastructure for businesses to thrive unlike in the west where govt lobbies and offers tax-break to business come to their jurisdiction. The most capitalist person is a Nigeria entrepreneur who owns a metal fabrication shop-- that welder, he started his business without any loan from govt, SBA, banks, credit card etc. He provides his security, pays bribe to govt officials to get permits,provides his own water, provides his own power,provides his space, provides his own road to his workshop. Now, what's the role of govt in this entrepreneur's life? The problem with folks like u is that the govt has not done anything and you are saying that everyone wants a handout from the govt.

Until you explain to me why you think its reasonable to compare the post industrial west to pre-industrial Africa this point is mute.

You guys are way to quick to scapegoat the government, but you fail to see the utter failure of the citizens, especially those of us abroad. Was it not the government that payed for your education k-12 and provides numerous public colleges for you to pursue higher education?

England did not even have that when they entered the industrial revolution in the 17 century.

How is the government supposed to build roads when the private sector cannot provide them low cost companies to complete the projects? In the U.S the gov can contract that work to hundreds of different firms all offering the lowest possible rates, while in Naija the gov pays some of the highest contruction costs in the world.

The failure of Africa rest squarely on the backs of its people, the quicker we realize that the better.

So you are saying that Africa should adopt a singular medieval economic program that has been abandoned. Builders of the railways were mostly engineers from US Army Corps trained with public funds. Show me in modern times where private companies built projects for public use ( i have asked this question up to 6 times without an answer.

Does the Nigerian government not also train people in its school system? Did the british not train Nigerian to build thier infrastructure projects when this nation was a colony?

The only difference is that the Nigerian private sector has failed to incorporate this huge pool of educated people, domestic and abroad.... While the Americans did

This is counterproductive to your argument that private sectors build infrastructure. It's govt job to invest in heavy RD and public infrastructure. Imagine if govt hadn't invested in space technology, private companies could not have afforded it, but private companies like Garmin and Google are greatest beneficiaries.

Mute point. You are talking about space exploration and i'm talking about entering the industrial age in 2013.... do you not see that the situation is different?

The American private sector has given its Government a 14 trillion dollar GDP to draw taxes from... What have the Nigerian people given their government?

adconline: You are still running on historic and subjective theories. Name "free market" countries where private companies build public infrastructure? if you know someone WHO runs a business profitably, it's a big NO cos ROI is not guaranteed. If you have run a company, you are looking for the shortest way to make most the profit. If your only cited example worked, why is it that private companies have not towed that line?
Why do govts (public), federal, states, counties, and cities go to bond markets(private) to raise money for public works instead of having private companies fully fund those projects?
Also name one country where 100% free economy is practiced? Tell me why US runs a railway network (public) for Amtrak and uses tax payer's money (public) to subsidize( against free market economy) ridership?

How is it a subjective theory when it has been proven in almost every western Europe country?

Please do not strawman my argument, im not here advocating for Laissez-Faire economics, i'm asking why capitalism is not working in Africa.

Again, why do you think it is appropriate to compare the interplay between the public/private sectors in modern, post industrial Europe with pre-industrial Africa? The reason i am using old examples is because those are the only precidents for capitalism in a pre-industrial society.

Every economy is a mixed economy to some degree, the united states increased its involvement in the economy mainly to stabilize the business cycle after the great depression in 29'. At that point the American economy had already developed in a largely unregulated enviornment.

99cent: something u also omit is that America fought a whole civil war over whether or not it will adopt industrialization. Talk about invisible hand. politics certainly had nothing to do with it. You mention 1865. hmm I wonder what just ended during that time. hint hint civil war. and I wonder what that war was about hmm. u don't need slaves when u have technology. wow light bulb.

there is also something called patents and intellectual rights that enable industries to become rich at the expense of smaller business. again, state laws and regulations have nothing to do with this

^ Good god... Get out of here, You are ruining my thread.

Why can you people stay in the romance section instead of posting nonsense about subjects you dont understand?

"the civil war was about industrilization" what the hell? If anything, both the south and north benefited from industrilization. The cotton gin improved productivity of southern plantations, enabling them to expand and export to Europe, while industrilization helped to north develop a manufacturing industry, as well as a textile industry that benefited from the south's increased output.

... the civil war was about states rights, power dynamics and slavery kiddo, Go read a damn book. It is by force you must comment here

99cent: no shiit. do you know where that metaphor came from and what it refers to?
keep reading ur voodoo economics textbook n calling it science

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=1758839

99cent leave. This is a complex discussion, i don't have time for people who don't understand basic economic terms.

adconline: Private=Profit first with restricted use. Public= everybody can use. In the US, railways are owned by private companies with exception of Amtrak which is heavily subsidized by US, which negates free market economy principles.
U can't be running your arguement with this one historical event of 1800s when Nigeria hadn't been conceived. Find better facts of 1960s to 2000s where private companies built railways, road, seaports, airports for public use.
This Internet u are using came as a result of Govt research and funding even though greatest beneficiaries today are companies.

Do you realize that Nigeria has not entered the industrial age by 2013?

While America entered it in 1865, England in 1750. Does that not sound a little bit ridiculous to you? If we want to analyse the interplay between the public and private sectors of pre-industrial Nigeria we have to compare it to the events in the pre-industrial west... not on the service based economies of modern Europe.

At this point in Africa development = industrilization, any other objective is wasting time. No nation has ever become a HDC without this step

The difference between us and the Europeans is we look for a scapegoats for our problems while they fix the damn thing.

It is impossible for the private sector to provide growth without the government or public sector. If you disagree, give actual examples. Did the Europeans buy the land they used for the railroads and industries they built in the US in the 18th and 19th centuries? Were the early settlers not supported by European governments? Did European governments not use free labour (Slaves) to develop US industry? Provide examples where the private sector paid for every factor of production. No where in this world is the private sector responsible for infrastructure. Private sector may be involved in the development of infrastructure that it needs but the government isn't willing to provide. For instance, sections of a road to link trunk roads or power for a part of a country.

The examples are endless

For example; The British East India company, who bought the charter for India, making huge profits from the silk & spice trade before colonizing the subcontinent with their private armies. The British Government owned 0 stock in this company and only gained direct control of India after it nationalized the firm in 1857.

.... Even Nigeria was controlled by the private Royal Niger Company until 1899.

When people wanted to create business that were too expensive, or to risky to be financed by the government or the banks, they created joint-stock companies, which essentially consisted of several wealthy individuals pooling their money together and liquidating the firm when the objectives where met

while now, in the 21th century, Africans just complain that the interest rates are too high and sit around blaming the government.

How am i mixing public with private? The interstate system was made in the 1950's, i'm talking about the 1800's. Do you guys realize that there was a time when the U.S and the UK did not have 24/hour electricity or good roads, yet they were still able to industrilize?

When they were no roads they built railroads, no electricity they used steam power. The free market has proven time and time again that it can bring economic growth without the help of government. (i have my own theories to why it doesn't work in Africa, but they were shouted down in this thread https://www.nairaland.com/1001242/nigeria-must-leave-global-economy)

...So if we think Africa can survive in the globalism system, the responsibility for our failures fall squarely on the shoulders of the people

Consider the fact that maybe development begets a good government, and not the other way around.

^ empowered male

Anyway you look at this problem the solution always lies with the people not the government... why are Nigerian citizens sequestering their money from the economy?

The GDP of Nigeria is around 2600 per capita, which is not bad at all. If all that money was keep in the financial system i'm positive the the banks would be able to loan at lower interests rates to SMEs.

The fact of the matter is, the amount of cash available to the banks determines what interest rates they will be able to charge.

If American banks are charging 6% with several billion on their balance sheets we should not be surprised that Nigerian banks are charging 15% when they only have several million.

waddahell is going on here?

You guys get a room

lrguru: OP, what about ladies that do leave their ppanties in their BF's bathroom anytime they want to travel back/go back to wherever they came from? Thats rubbish and i wonder what it is there for... That to me is crap

yea.. ill never understand that one.