afroxyz:


Crypto is on the verge of being an aol/Netscape or being a Microsoft/facebook. We'll see.

Time will tell, 10 years is not too far

Tobex4realTobex234:
I still maintain that for a long term horizon. Naira is a shit currency compared to cryptocurrency. Investing in naira denominated assets is more risky than cryptocurrency. My naira exposure is not up to 5% of my overall portfolio.

And to complement jedisco's point, other investment classes like stocks, naira denominated instruments e.t.c are equally risky, but nobody here is being chastised for investing in these assets.

I will always let people know that cryptocurrency is risky but you have to be in it. I am yet to see any superior argument for ignoring cryptocurrency in a young man's portfolio. Is it risky? Yes. But so is stocks and naira.

Investors are controlled by the emotions of fear, greed, optimism and pessimism, all these cause volatility in the prices of their Investments but doesn't affect the value or earning ability of the Investments, if you are liquid and certain about the future of the Investments a bear market is the best time to buy more, while the market can remain down for years the cash flow from the assets will sustain the investors. The investment must have an intrinsic value though


AG Leventis sold for 70k on the floor, the core investors decided to take the company private and will pay N1.50k that is a premium of over 100%. Some investors did not take the offer, they prefer to go private. I did an analysis on the company and found out that if the company's properties and other assets were sold, liabilities were paid by the company all Shareholders should be able to have a minimum of N3.

When Investments are experiencing sharp drop in prices, we should be able to ask ourselves what is the net asset or book value of this Investments. If the promoters of the investment or venture decides to do a buy back from investors or liquidated all assets of the investment, how much can the promoters pay investors.

This is very important when buying an asset or business

afroxyz:


Your are just being sentimental. When you have facts come back. Copper, steel palladium are used in industrial purpose. Apart from the fact that it does not fade, which is why it is used for jewelley, what is gold used for?

you are being ridicilous that is why it is difficult to give you a straight answer.
Gold is the most stable store of value in human history and the most reliable back up of currency and money.

jedisco:


My brother, this is not even about naira vs crypt0 or crypt0 vs other investments... It's just about folks letting others be... It would be childish for me to continually pull up NSE that have dumped recently and start saying look at how this one lost money e.t.c. some stocks lost over 50% in a week or two and yet everyone is silent... But once it's crypt0, people start bringing up funny pictures..

Few years back, I bought a piece of land in a area which was seemingly fast developing. Another reason I bought was cos it seemed there'd be some government input coming to the area... Of late, someone closeby who sold did so at a loss... I didn't start goading him.

I love to diversify... But as tricky as investing can be and off all the stuff I invest in, if I was asked to name some that I could with some degree of certainty say I can buy today and in the next 2-3years, easily liquidate for profit, bitc0in would be top on that list... Worse still, I can stake it at 7% pa and let in cool down

Regarding, the naira, it's our national currency and difficult to criticize...but when Emiefele started his magic, I simply converted my naira to stable coyns and market price... Around that time, people were looking for where and how to buy dollars. If I wanted to, I could equally stake it for about 7% pa and also not bother about volatility in naira or crypt0...

The crypt0 market has grown to almost 2 trillion dollar market cap. Whether I invest or not means nothing to the market.... Same also with our opinions

Since nobody should talk about Crypt0 loss then would please stop littering this thread with discussions about it. People talk about loss in every class of investment all the time..when treasury bill was crashing it was talked about and people were mocked about it here nobody died. Go to stock market thread and see how PETER and Loco were mocked for Transcorp shares recently..yet people hear word.

In stock market thread, lots of people with genuine intentions are sometimes vilify for wrong call or even right call that did not get mature immediately. Yet we hear word...

When some of you guys bring the matter about Crypt0 trying to make it seem like anybody that didn't or haven't invested in it is a looser..You don't see anything wrong with it. Now it is shedding weight and you don't want people to talk..

What then is so special about Crypt0 that it's loss shouldn't be talked about?

Please you guys should stop littering this thread with Crypt0 issues

freeman67:


Since nobody should talk about Crypt0 loss then would please stop littering this thread with discussions about it. People talk about loss in every class of investment all the time..when treasury bill was crashing it was talked about and people were mocked about it here nobody died. Go to stock market thread and see how PETER and Loco were mocked for Transcorp shares recently..yet people hear word.

In stock market thread, lots of people with genuine intentions are sometimes vilify for wrong call or even right call that did not get mature immediately. Yet we hear word...

When some of you guys bring the matter about Crypt0 trying to make it seem like anybody that didn't or haven't invested in it is a looser..You don't see anything wrong with it. Now it is shedding weight and you don't want people to talk..

What then is so special about Crypt0 that it's loss shouldn't be talked about?

Please you guys should stop littering this thread with Crypt0 issues

The summary is that people should understand the risk involved in whatever they invest in, we are usually carried away by returns.

I used to be like that about 13 years ago, until I learnt my lessons the hard way


Money made out of thin air, will always evaporate. It is less than 3% of investors who can successfully create sustainable wealth from money made out of thin air. It doesn't matter if was made from real estate, stockmarket, currency speculation, Ponzi scheme or whatever.

zamirikpo:


We are at a precipice in the crypto world.

Pls how can I buy cryptos.......with this govt ban.

Some say binance ,paxful etc

Are they safe.

Lol, they are more safe than your bank.

Myhelper1:
On a lighter note..

Now I know why CRY is the first three letters in CRYptocurrency.

emmanuelewumi:


A lower stock price, will increase my dividend yield and earning yield.

As earlier said traders focus on the stock price, investors focus on the business and its values.

A house is worth N40 million, the rental income from the property is N3 million and has been flat for the past 3 years. If the price of the property falls to N30 million because of this, will you sell or buy more if you have the cash flow?

Buy more

Afromentalist:

I understand why Seatrade always clashes with you people here. You are just too damm lazy, and moronic to think for yourselves. Infact the only reason I even visit this thread is because of Emmanuelewumi, and Seatrade (transatlanticex/logobenz).

A simple google search would have educated you lots, very easily, but you prefer to happily remain in ignorance and call people names.

Beside Jewelry (which is already a massive industry on its own), Gold is used in Information Technology (computers and phones), Electronics, Medicine, Space Technology and Exploration, Conservation techniques and the list is endless.

Gold is a necessary component to make: Connectors/contacts, Printed circuits, Semiconductors, Electron tubes, Relays and switches, Thin films and thick Films and very many others.

Now, I am not one to waste my precious time, as I am very certain you can't be educated. If I do not reply you or anyone else regarding this topic anymore, just know that you have not said anything that deserve my attention enough to elicit a response.

References:

The Demand for Gold by Industry
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF03214603.pdf

Business Insider - The Many uses of Gold
https://www.businessinsider.com/many-uses-of-gold-2012-9?r=DE&IR=T#gold-is-used-in-space-to-reflect-radiation-and-stabilize-temperatures-12

Gold the most useful Metal
https://geology.com/minerals/gold/uses-of-gold.shtml

Don’t waste your time joor...where pa Emma?
Am still a student ooo, always coming here to grab from ur wealth of experience.

emmanuelewumi:


Time will tell, 10 years is not too far

What some of these people don't even realize is that, the main challenge with crypto does not even lie in its intrinsic value. That is only an auxiliary reason why crypto is likely to fail.

The core problem with cryptocurrencies lies in its fundamental technology (Blockchain).

Blockchain has been designed to be completely decentralized, which in itself is a very good thing. The way to achieve that however is problematic. Nodes / computer have to compete among themselves (by solving mathematical problems) in order to create one additional Block (hence the name blockchain).

As a direct consequence, the more nodes/computers there are, the toughest the competition. Hence, the energy and resources needed to produce an additional block skyrockets /multiplies as the number of nodes/computers/users increases.

For instance, a single BTC transaction requires 250 Kwh in terms of energy while a unique credit card transaction would require 0.0004 Kwh. Bear in mind that almost everyone uses a credit card at this point, while not more than 1% of the world's population uses BTC for daily operations.

To put it in simple terms: if Cryptocurrencies were to be utilized in normal life and adopted by the majority of the population, each person would need something close to a nuclear energy plant for financial operations.

Therein lies the fundamental problem with cryptocurrencies, and the very reason why, should the Blockchain technology never be radically changed, it is doomed to remain at best marginal or fail.

I know there are some altcoins that claim to address this problem, but there are mostly lies and deception. The only way you can solve this problem is by changing fundamentally how the blockchain works, and more than 10 years after its creation, it is yet to be done.

After Buhari, Tinubu is coming. Naira is on a free fall and we are not saying anything about this.

1 trip of sharp sand that used to be 35k, it's almost 70k now. No one is saying anything about this. If you can cope with all these steady devaluation and inflation, how do you think we would not cope with the current crypto dip.

At least, BTC will rise at some point, but there's no fucking hope for the naira to get better.

Afromentalist:

...

When it comes to currencies and payments, there would always be high level problems such as this.

The barter system had it's problems like coincidence, lack of a standard unit of measure
e.t.c

FIAT is not without it's problems, in that it can be infinitely produced, fake money can be printed, stupid government policy can mess up your life in a short time e.t.c

Also there are a ton of use cases for cryptocurrency that we are not talking about.

Bitcoin continues to help cross border remittance. I can get paid from anywhere in minutes.

USDT continues to offer a pegged value to the U.S dollar. This option is extremely useful for people in an Emefiele-controlled banking system.

Ethereum is used for smart contracts. Flutterwave uses Ripple for cross border payments e.t.c

I think we are being too unnecessarily hard on crypto, it's just about a decade old, give it time

Tobex4realTobex234:
...

What are you talking about bro ? Are you sure you understand what I wrote up there ?

freeman67:


Since nobody should talk about Crypt0 loss then would please stop littering this thread with discussions about it. People talk about loss in every class of investment all the time..when treasury bill was crashing it was talked about and people were mocked about it here nobody died. Go to stock market thread and see how PETER and Loco were mocked for Transcorp shares recently..yet people hear word.

In stock market thread, lots of people with genuine intentions are sometimes vilify for wrong call or even right call that did not get mature immediately. Yet we hear word...

When some of you guys bring the matter about Crypt0 trying to make it seem like anybody that didn't or haven't invested in it is a looser..You don't see anything wrong with it. Now it is shedding weight and you don't want people to talk..

What then is so special about Crypt0 that it's loss shouldn't be talked about?

Please you guys should stop littering this thread with Crypt0 issues

I wasn't referring to healthy discussions around crypt0 like we've had on this page and the last...
What triggered me was the repititive goading of bitc0in investors by those who think its worthless

afroxyz:


Crypt0 is on the verge of being an aol/Netscape or being a Microsoft/facebook. We'll see.

I'd say this was the case 3-4 years back.... That was when the thinking was that it's a bubble going to zero... The only thing that held crypt0 after that was the fundamentals...

I'd liken the crypt0 space now to the internet era of 2004 after the dotcom crash... It was obvious the internet wasn't going to the wastebin ... Just like the first and second iPhone, anyone who touched it knew that this was something that couldn't be voided even though Nokia and the rest were dominant then.

Case in point are Central Banks looking at how to issue their crypt0 coins, Governments bringing out taxing rules, institutions adopting it and buying in large amount.... It's definitely passed the stage of whether it's going to zero or not.

The fundamentals on crypt0 have been tested and proven, question now is how does it scale

emmanuelewumi:



For every Microsoft, Google, Amazon etc there were thousands of dot coms that are history, where investors lost 100% of their funds those who got loans went bankrupt

Margin of safety is very important and investing in assets with crazy valuations is dangerous.

Most of the dot coms had crazy valuations, PE of over 800 because of the reckless optimism of the uninitiated investors

History is about to repeat itself.

History repeats itself again and again.

I'd go on a bit

Just like with dotcom companies, most in crypt0 know that an overwhelming majority of crypt0 assets have little or no usecase and would eventually go to zero... But then the issue is what would the survivors do?

Bullruns leading to parabolic tops are an unavoidable part of strong markets moreso when an innovative item is introduced... The question is what happens after the bubble top. That's when fundamentals are tested and stuff without use fritters away...

Looking at the dotcom bubble (highlighted in blue), the internet was new and people saw it as innovative, retail money trooped in and stuff went parabolic. Of course, it ended in a crash with most companies going to zero but what happened afterwards is the important part... The likes of Google and the rest with proper fundamentals held strong... Today a number of those internet companies are worth more than the economies of many African nations... To me I'd that bubble was an unavoidable but minute cost to birth those giants... The market is much better off and has almost trippled its valuation of the bubble top. Take away those internet companies today and the market will crash. Also, did the markets that didn't partake in the bubble fare any better?... Most stock markets would give anything to have home companies with the valuation of Google listed on them.

The dotcom bubble is quite typical of the 2017 crypt0 bubble of 2017... Retail rushed in and blew stuff to absurd proportions. Most coyns birthed then are gone.... It was a brutal crash afterwards. But the fundamentals held true on what mattered and today bitc0in is back and stronger with central banks and larger institutions taking note.


Personally, I'd liken the current crypt0 space to the internet era of 04-05.... It's still very early..and with time, the 2017 crash may look like nothing

igbizen:

Buy more

Don't try that with a bubble asset

Buy bitco1n!

If you know, you know.

The Thread says Treasury Bills

There's a Crypto thread where you guys can have discussions relating to Bitcoin and the rest


Stop forcing people to invest in what they're not okay with

OgogoroFreak:
Buy bitco1n!

If you know, you know.

Oga, you claim to have millions in bit.coins and infact at one point claimed to have made close to a million dollars in profit alone. Na so

But I have never seen you actively discussing and analyzing crypto like someone that is really into it. Do you see how passionate Jedisco and Tobex are? They know that asset class very well and you can tell that they are investors. As for you, you have NEVER EVER gone into any deep and/or technical discussion or tried to really educate people here about the asset class. Na just to dey tell people to invest in bit.coins everyday with no basis.

Oga, please don’t push people to make mistakes that they will end up regretting just because this is an anonymous forum that a gardener can be a billionaire (or anything he dreams of being). Some stupid people still blindly follow things that they read here.

If you are going to keep doing that, why don’t you start by teaching folks how it really works as an experienced battle tested investor with millions of dollars invested in bitc0ins that you claim to be?

Nezzjnr:
The Thread says Treasury Bills

There's a Crypto thread where you guys can have discussions relating to Bitcoin and the rest


Stop forcing people to invest in what they're not okay with

We shall continue to force them until they stop being conservative.

I can't imagine how young people will continue to avoid risk, this is the time to take all the reckless risks the experience will be a wonderful teacher

jedisco:


I wasn't referring to healthy discussions around crypt0 like we've had on this page and the last...
What triggered me was the repititive goading of bitc0in investors by those who think its worthless

I really enjoy reading your analysis of various asset classes and appreciate how passionate you are about bitc0ins. It shows that you are really invested in it and your emotions are normal for any true investor in an asset class that is going through challenging times that every asset class experiences. Unlike some people that throw around millions of dollars they gained but no in-depth knowledge of the asset class

But I think you are taking it too personally. Let people say whatever they want to say. It’s normal for people to be skeptical of asset classes that they do not understand. But please don’t stop the analysis that you drop every now and then. Some of us learn about the asset class from your posts

emmanuelewumi:



We shall continue to force them until they stop being conservative.

I can't imagine how young people will continue to avoid risk, this is the time to take all the reckless risks the experience will be a wonderful teacher

Your level of sarcasm is top notch

For those interested in money market funds, this is the current rate from fund managers according to the website of Fund Manager Association of Nigeria.

Afrinvest 3.75%

AIICO capital 5.16%

ARM Investment 3.1%

Chapel Hill 3.59%


Cordros 3.67%


EDC 3.17%

FBN Quest 6.46%


Investment One 4.33%


Meristem 5.71%

Stanbic IBTC 6%

United Capital 6.94%

Vetiva 3.61%

Quantum Zenith 3.52%

Lazyyouth4u:


I really enjoy reading your analysis of various asset classes and appreciate how passionate you are about bitc0ins. It shows that you are really invested in it and your emotions are normal for any true investor in an asset class that is going through challenging times that every asset class experiences. Unlike some people that throw around millions of dollars they gained but no in-depth knowledge of the asset class

But I think you are taking it too personally. Let people say whatever they want to say. It’s normal for people to be skeptical of asset classes that they do not understand. But please don’t stop the analysis that you drop every now and then. Some of us learn about the asset class from your posts

Won't be a bad idea if they are done on the dedicated threads for such asset classes

emmanuelewumi:



Won't be a bad idea if they are done on the dedicated threads for such asset classes

If you discuss Real Estate, stocks, forex and Ponzi here, why can’t they discuss crypt.o here if they feel like it? Just curious

Lazyyouth4u:


If you discuss Real Estate, stocks, forex and Ponzi here, why can’t they discuss crypt.o here if they feel like it? Just curious

They are not taken personal, pros and cons are also discussed.

No sales pitch no agenda, open for diagreements, healthy discussions with a
good sense of humour.

Lazyyouth4u:


Oga, you claim to have millions in bit.coins and infact at one point claimed to have made close to a million dollars in profit alone. Na so

But I have never seen you actively discussing and analyzing crypto like someone that is really into it. Do you see how passionate Jedisco and Tobex are? They know that asset class very well and you can tell that they are investors. As for you, you have NEVER EVER gone into any deep and/or technical discussion or tried to really educate people here about the asset class. Na just to dey tell people to invest in bit.coins everyday with no basis.

Oga, please don’t push people to make mistakes that they will end up regretting just because this is an anonymous forum that a gardener can be a billionaire (or anything he dreams of being). Some stupid people still blindly follow things that they read here.

If you are going to keep doing that, why don’t you start by teaching folks how it really works as an experienced battle tested investor with millions of dollars invested in bitc0ins that you claim to be?

I don't discuss or analyze crypto. I only buy and keep bitco1n. Any other coin no concern me. I got very lucky with bitco1n during lockdown when i decided to lock my funds in it to escape Naira devaluation. So, my method is simple. Nothing to discuss or analyze. I am not a crypto expert.

When we convert N1 million to N10 million out of thin air or from highly volatile assets that has zero cash flow, it is natural to think one is a genius or a guru, we are tempted to take more risks, become optimistic and reckless.

The greatest Investment and risk management lessons are learnt when the N10 million evaporates and turns to 500k. At this point we become sober and humble, while some will become agressive or depressed.

emmanuelewumi:
When we convert N1 million to N10 million out of thin air or from highly volatile assets that has zero cash flow, it is natural to think one is a genius or a guru, we are tempted to take more risks, become optimistic and reckless.

The greatest Investment and risk management lessons are learnt when the N10 million evaporates and turns to 500k. At this point we become sober and humble, while some will become agressive or depressed.

This happens to dumb people. If you 10x your 1m to 10m. The immediate advise is to take some profits, even if you take just 50% profits which is 5m. Even Cathie Wood who is one of the most promising stocks investors right now usually advise people that have ARK funds to take profits anytime there is an upsurge in value.

And let's assume your prophecy of doom comes to pass. Your 5m balance will then turn 250k. Even with this extreme unimaginable scenario, has the person really lost?

Tobex4realTobex234:



This happens to dumb people. If you 10x your 1m to 10m. The immediate advise is to take some profits, even if you take just 50% profits which is 5m. Even Cathie Wood who is one of the most promising stocks investors right now usually advise people that have ARK funds to take profits anytime there is an upsurge in value.

And let's assume your prophecy of doom comes to pass. Your 5m balance will then turn 250k. Even with this extreme unimaginable scenario, has the person really lost?

This is how it works you book profit, after some weeks you go back to make more profits and take more risks


When there is a massive sell off, you are trying to sell at a loss in order to reduce your loss but there are no buyers.

I thought I was a guru when I grew my trading capital by 800% between 2005 and 2008. I was a margin trader with FBN Capital Ikoyi Lagos

When the margin call was made, I lost all I have made and was in a loss position. Thank God I changed my car, bought some plots of land, charity and bought finance, marketing books and did post graduate studies in business with part of the funds. That was my only gain