Witen:
Majority of the well documented slaves came from south, east and central Africa . Lately expanded to west Africa

There are no slaves from southern Africa

Boudiccao:


Don't mind the bigot.
What he is calling Ifa is found throughout West Africa and it comes with different names and obviously going to have similar patterns since it's a Niger Congo stuff. No group can lay sole claims of its origin.


How a supremacist woke up to peddle the trash of igbo taking it from Yoruba is beyond me.

Just because Yoruba religion is over hyped in modern Nigeria doesn't mean other West Africans don't have the same belief systems and solid religion of their own.
You can blame the Europeans for that. Once the focus on something, they tend to keep others at the back.

Afa, Ifa, Aha, Iha and other names it bears is found throughout the West African region and each group have their gods and their way of doing things.

Let me help you with pictures

Both pictures represent Ifa and Afa divination objects. First is ifa, second is afa.

Do you see similarities?

Now yorubas have reliable sources and evidence on the how ifa started.

Reports on how Afa originated in Igbo land inisist that traveling medicine men (Dibias) who came from other places brought it with them.

Yorubas have been practicing ifa centuries before Nri, Arochukwu or independent igbos settlers even settled.

Now do you get the drift?

Now this is a theory of mine.

Could the traveling Dibias have brought the god name orisa with them to igbo land?

The orisa responsible for ifa is orunmila

Denn:


Let me help you with pictures

Both pictures represent Ifa and Afa divination objects. First is ifa, second is afa.

Do you see similarities?

Now yorubas have reliable sources and evidence on the how ifa started.

Reports on how Afa originated in Igbo land inisist that traveling medicine men (Dibias) who came from other places brought it with them.

Yorubas have been practicing ifa centuries before Nri, Arochukwu or independent igbos settlers even settled.

Now do you get the drift?

This doesn't prove anything. Ifa and Afa is a West African divination system that has similar patterns across board just like I already mentioned.


Nobody can claim to have originated it and gave it to others.
You can't claim what is indigenous to West Africans with no specific source of origin.

Boudiccao:



This doesn't prove anything. Ifa and Afa is a West African divination system that has similar patterns across board just like I already mentioned.


Nobody can claim to have originated it and gave it to others.
You can't claim what is indigenous to West Africans with no specific source of origin.

On the contrary.

Other people in west africa recognize the ifa canon.

Igbos well versed in Afa also do.

It is you who is knew to the subject that is refusing to comprehend what even UNESCO has accepted.

And that is the main issue. You simply can’t accept that the almighty igbos could have influence from other tribes in their ancestral development.

Everyone contributed to everyone.

Denn:


On the contrary.

Other people in west africa recognize the ifa canon.

Igbos well versed in Afa also do.

It is you who is knew to the subject that is refusing to comprehend what even UNESCO has accepted.

And that is the main issue. You simply can’t accept that the almighty igbos could have influence from other tribes in their ancestral development.

Everyone contributed to everyone.

You are very funny.

Even the Ooni of Ife said they met Igbos in Ife when the Yorubas first came to Ife.
We are that old.
But you want to believe such an old people with population to match, borrowed an essential culture as our divination system from Yorubas?

Do you realize how insulting and provocative these your claims are?

No Igbo well versed in Afa recognize any nonsense link between Afa and Ifa.
Stop these ridiculous provocative claims already.

Denn:
Now this is a theory of mine.

Could the traveling Dibias have brought the god name orisa with them to igbo land?

The orisa responsible for ifa is orunmila

That is mere linguistic expansion.
Igbos are surrounded by different non igbo Niger Congo groups and words were going to have cognates on different sides.
The Igbos that lived closer to ibibios, Ijaw, igala etc will end up sharing similar words with them which over time got into the central lexicon.

Denn:


On the contrary.

Other people in west africa recognize the ifa canon.

Igbos well versed in Afa also do.

It is you who is knew to the subject that is refusing to comprehend what even UNESCO has accepted.

And that is the main issue. You simply can’t accept that the almighty igbos could have influence from other tribes in their ancestral development.

Everyone contributed to everyone.

Other people recognize it because it is overhyped in Africa!


Other peoples belief system are put at the back because of obsession with Ifa which is hyped and elevated above others that have the same system in West Africa with no specific origin tied to any group.

Ariani:


You are very funny.

Even the Ooni of Ife said they met Igbos in Ife when the Yorubas first came to Ife.
We are that old.
But you want to believe such an old people with population to match, borrowed an essential culture as our divination system from Yorubas?

Do you realize how insulting and provocative these your claims are?

No Igbo well versed in Afa recognize any nonsense link between Afa and Ifa.
Stop these ridiculous provocative claims already.

First, you claim there is no relationship whatsoever between ifa and afa, i showed you the relationships with evidence.

If you have verifiable sources to debunk my claims and that of authorities on this, please help us all and bring it to light.

Claims that are backed with evidence become facts

Boudiccao:


That is mere linguistic expansion.
Igbos are surrounded by different non igbo Niger Congo groups and words were going to have cognates on different sides.
The Igbos that lived closer to ibibios, Ijaw, igala etc will end up sharing similar words with them which over time got into the central lexicon.

It's not even same thing.
It's just a mere coincidence that Orisha( this is how Yorubas pronounce it with "sh"

)rhymed with Orisa which is but a dialectical variation of Olisa.

The origin of the words are different.

Orisha in Yoruba has something to do with head, as head means "Ori" in Yoruba. For Comparison, Head is "Isi/Ishi" in Igbo.

But Olisa in Igbo is a contraction of the sentence "O li isaa", meaning : "what is greater than seven", or "what drowns seven".

In Igbo cosmology, the number 7 is very important and considered the highest number of the men realm. Once something exceed seven (Isaa) in Igbo cosmology, it is assumed to have become metaphysical. People are believed to reincarnate 7 times on Earth before they moved to different spirit realm in Igbo religion.

That's why in Igbo fairy tales, when some one has to go to the spirit world, we say " Oga fe ofia isaa (asaa) na mmli isaaa(asaa) , ruo be ndi mmuo"
Meaning he crossed seven forests and seven Rivers and got to the spirit land.

"Oli isaa"(what is beyond the 7th) is the representation of the metaphysical in Igbo cosmology and spirituality, that's how it also came to represent Chukwu/Chineke/ Chiokike/Obasi, because this being is recognized to be a metaphysical being that dwell in the spirit world that lie beyond the number 7.

Bottom line is that the similarity in words between Orisha in Yoruba and Olisa in Igbo are mere coincidence, and they are not even pronounced alike, as both words when broken down to their meaning in both languages,have different meaning and origins.

Thank you for your time.

Boudiccao:


Other people recognize it because it is overhyped in Africa!


Other peoples belief system are put at the back because of obsession with Ifa which is hyped and elevated above others that have the same system in West Africa with no specific origin tied to any group.

Leave the subject since your understanding about it is limited bro

Denn:


First, you claim there is no relationship whatsoever between ifa and afa, i showed you the relationships with evidence.

If you have verifiable sources to debunk my claims and that of authorities on this, please help us all and bring it to light.

Claims that are backed with evidence become facts

Which verifiable source told you Ndiigbo borrowed our "Afa" from Yorubas?
I have asked you to post the excerpts here.

I recognize Igbo and Yoruba language branching off from the YEAII (Yoruba-Edo-Akoko-Igbo-Igala-) common ancestor eons ago. Hence few word cognates among members of the family.
No one borrowed from any one, they just retained original shared ones before all diverged.

Ariani:


They were rounded up in a matter of days.
They couldn't even manufacture local guns to withstand the British.
And once the Oba came out from the bush he was hiding and sent to exile, the war was over.
That's how fragile and useless their village Monarchical system of Government is.

It's a very primitive and weak system of Government that makes it easy to conquer a people.
Just strike at the head and everyone else fall in line.

Contrast this with what Happened in Enu-ani where the people fought for decades, because there was no all powerful king dictating for the people.

Or in Arochukwu where they organized and employed local blacksmiths all over Igboland who made guns for them with which they withstood the British in a full blown war for 5 months at a stretch before capitulation to the superiority of Maxim guns.

Some village fettish people think that worshipping one fat not-so-wise man and shouting "Oba gha tokpe" up and down like a people without brains to think for themselves, is what makes a people strong or civilized.

Ndi Mgbu.

lol look at this ignorant delusional IPOB. Benin Kingdom was made up of many quasi-autonomous kingdoms whose head pay traditional respect to the Oba. Uromi was the military head of Benin kingdom. They already had access to Portuguese weapons as far back as during the reign of Ewuare in the 14th century one of the main reasons Ewuare and Ozolua ran circles around all neighbouring cities up to Ghana. There are still ethnic Ẹdos in Ghana today called Ga.
The Benin invasion was done by Africans in the South African protectorate down to the Niger protectorate. The brits remained in their ships. The first time 250 British came they were butchered.
As for human sacrifice there is no tribe in Nigeria that was not involved in human sacrifice. The death of ikemefuna in Achebe's book, was it copied from the practices of the benins?
Britain vs Old Benin one on one Britain would lose 99/100

Ariani:


It's not even same thing.
It's just a mere coincidence that Orisha( this is how Yorubas pronounce it with "sh" rhymed with Orisa which is but a dialectical variation of Olisa.

The origin of the words are different.

Orisha in Yoruba has something to do with head, as head means "Ori" in Yoruba.

But Olisa in Igbo is a contraction of the sentence "Oli isaa", meaning what is greater than seven, or what swallows seven.

In Igbo cosmology, the number 7 is very important and considered the highest number of the men realm. Once something exceed seven (Isaa) in Igbo cosmology, it is assumed to have become metaphysical.

That's why in Igbo fairy tales, when some one has to go to the spirit world, we say " Oga fe ofia isaa (asaa) na mmli isaaa(asaa) , ruo be ndi mmuo"
Meaning he crossed seven forests and seven Rivers and got to the spirit land.

"Oli isaa"(what is beyond the 7th) is the representation of the metaphysical in Igbo cosmology and spirituality, that's how it also came to represent Chukwu/Chineke/ Chiokike/Obasi, because this being is recognized to be a metaphysical being that dwell in the spirit world that lie beyond the number 7.

Bottom line is that the similarity in words between Orisha in Yoruba and Olisa in Igbo are mere coincidence, and they are not even pronounced alike, as both words when broken down to their meaning in both languages,have different meaning and origins.

Thank you for your time.

Orisa is the spelling in yoruba. The S has a marking that makes the pronunciation sh. Orisa is pronunced Orisha in yoruba.

Orisha (god or deity) is different from ori (head).

Similar sounding/spelt words in yoruba usually have no relation whatsoever. Examples below

Oko represents husband, farm, hoe, stone, penis, vehicle, etc

Orisa (pronounced orisha) is orisa and it means god.

In many other climes, the same orisa means god ( spelt or pronounced slightly differently)

If traveling Dibias brought ifa from yoruba land to igbo land, it is very possible that they brought the name of their deity (orisha) with them.

Ariani:
Bini is a mushroom village kingdom that Ika people ransacked at will.
A city that used her people for fetish human sacrifices that sent many of them scampering helter skelter.

There is no single civilization attached to Bini.
They have no Iron ore sites, they didn't evolve written language. They were ruled by a single man. Liased with Portuguese to terrorize fellow Africans just for piece of metals to use for art works.
Very pathetic.

lol you are not just ignorant you're also delusional. Which Ika lol Ikas that were used for sacrifice
Oba of Benin only ruled oredo local government, all other kingdoms had enijies who paid respect to the Oba. You have no idea how foolish and ignorant you sound. It's actually laughable

Ariani:


Which verifiable source told you Ndiigbo borrowed our "Afa" from Yorubas?
I have asked you to post the excerpts here.

I recognize Igbo and Yoruba language branching off from the YEAII (Yoruba-Edo-Akoko-Igbo-Igala-) common ancestor eons ago. Hence few word cognates among members of the family.
No one borrowed from any one, they just retained original shared ones before all diverged.

I shared details already.

I like the fact that you accept that it is very possible afa and ifa is related.

If we accept that they are related, then we can begin to unravel how they are related.

This i did some posts back

Thanks

Ariani:


You are very funny.

Even the Ooni of Ife said they met Igbos in Ife when the Yorubas first came to Ife.
We are that old.
But you want to believe such an old people with population to match, borrowed an essential culture as our divination system from Yorubas?

Do you realize how insulting and provocative these your claims are?

No Igbo well versed in Afa recognize any nonsense link between Afa and Ifa.
Stop these ridiculous provocative claims already.

The person is a supremacist and history revisionist obsessed with pulling down anything igbo.

He has gone from Igbo civilization, bronze works, wars and religion all for the sole intent of claiming Igbos have nothing.

Ariani:


The only reason Aro-Anglo war didn't last longer was that the British were cunning.

Before the war , they went on a campaign where by they lured the people to bring out their guns to be broken, by either paying them for submitting their guns or by using their local police.
The British were nicknamed "Ndi otiji Egbe" in the Aro area for this.
After a while the Aro sensed what was happening, and halted the campaign, but it was too late by then, they had lost too many guns and it took the Igbo local blacksmiths time to reproduce enough guns on time to ready the Aro Confederate for the war.


The Aro were simply outwitted and out gunned.

But they atleast mounted a resistance for 6 months.

The fable Empire of one fat king that every one else prostrate before like they don't have brains of their own lasted just a bit over 1 day before capitulating.

Yet these mad people come out and tell us how their useless weak village Monarchical system of Government were stronger than our Republican system, and how it made them more civilised than us. Lol!
Of course the British were praising their stupid Monarchical system because they knew it made things quite easy for their colonial intents. They just took out the king or just replaced him with a stooge and the entire people bowed to the British.

In IGBOLAND,there was no king.
It was a very complex society of age grade leaders, elder councils, priests of deities, titled men, women groups ( Umuada and Omus) , etc.
All having equal stake in the day to day governance of the society.
There was no visible head for them to decapitate and bring everyone else under control.
They knew they were going to face stiff resistance in Igboland and that the campaign would cost them alot in human and resources.
Why would you expect them to praise such a system of Government?

Anglo Aro war lasted over 5 yrs

bomb24:


All the edo intellectuals put together can't light up a single candle.

85% of your population are stack illiterates, u have no reputable achievement to boast of in the history of Nigeria and Africa as a whole.

your women are being used on the shores of Libya and Europe as a pit latrine where white men defecate on them and set them up on chains.

Bragging about natural intelligence when no one from your rustic state has ever bagged an academic award.

lol normal people will be talking all these clowns who have no home will still be putting mouth. You that half the population of your youth are either on death row in Indonesia and Malaysia or rotting away in the some unmarked grave in East
This Reno story really pain you. You guys haven't slept for the past two days now

Walkee:
lol look at this ignorant delusional IPOB. Benin Kingdom was made up of many quasi-autonomous kingdoms whose head pay traditional respect to the Oba. Uromi was the military head of Benin kingdom. They already had access to Portuguese weapons as far back as during the reign of Ewuare in the 14th century one of the main reasons Ewuare and Ozolua ran circles around all neighbouring cities up to Ghana. There are still ethnic Ẹdos in Ghana to called Ga.
The Benin invasion was done by Africans in the South African protectorate down to the Niger protectorate. The brits remained in their ships. The first time 250 British came they were butchered.
As for human sacrifice there is no tribe in Nigeria that was not involved in human sacrifice. The death of ikemefuna in Achebe's book, was it copied from the practices of the benins?
Britain vs Old Benin one on one Britain would lose 99/100

In as much as you have points, insulting him is no way to go. Make your points and allow him to have his points aired.

Thanks

Walkee:
lol normal people will be talking all these clowns who have no home will still be putting mouth. You that half the population of your youth are either on death row in Indonesia and Malaysia or rotting away in the some unmarked grave in East

Insults are not relevant to this conversation.

Ethnic hate is also not a sign of intelligence. Lets drop it

Thanks

Ariani:


Which verifiable source told you Ndiigbo borrowed our "Afa" from Yorubas?
I have asked you to post the excerpts here.

I recognize Igbo and Yoruba language branching off from the YEAII (Yoruba-Edo-Akoko-Igbo-Igala-) common ancestor eons ago. Hence few word cognates among members of the family.
No one borrowed from any one, they just retained original shared ones before all diverged.

Let's start with this.

How did Afa get to Ndigbo?

Walkee:
lol look at this ignorant delusional IPOB. Benin Kingdom was made up of many quasi-autonomous kingdoms whose head pay traditional respect to the Oba. Uromi was the military head of Benin kingdom. They already had access to Portuguese weapons as far back as during the reign of Ewuare in the 14th century one of the main reasons Ewuare and Ozolua ran circles around all neighbouring cities up to Ghana. There are still ethnic Ẹdos in Ghana to called Ga.
The Benin invasion was done by Africans in the South African protectorate down to the Niger protectorate. The brits remained in their ships. The first time 250 British came they were butchered.
As for human sacrifice there is no tribe in Nigeria that was not involved in human sacrifice. The death of ikemefuna in Achebe's book, was it copied from the practices of the benins?
Britain vs Old Benin one on one Britain would lose 99/100

More fables.
The first 250 British people that came were not prepared. They came without official royal backing, and there was no war self. You just rounded them up and butchered them .
That doesn't count as part of the Bini expedition as it was not officially sanctioned by the British crown.

The official Bini expedition lasted for just over 1 day.
You were not worth shishi. How can you withstand the British when you have one fat lazy man who bleeps his brain out everyday with many wives , take decisions for you, since you are incapable of thinking for yourselves! And this ineffective archaic system of Government that the world had jettisoned is what you want to compare with the water tight highly sophisticated democracy of council of elders, age grade leaders council, council of Chief priests of deities, market women council aka Omus, council of title men( Nze and Ozo) and council of married daughters of the land, aka Umuada, that all sit in a round village square and debate on crucial issues and then appoint titular temporarily head of the council for the time being?
You lots are mad.


The affliated groups to Oba Bini were not free men. They were inferior men and stooges with no power to make decisions of their own.
That's why immediately the British captured the Oba who tried to negotiate his freedom with silver and gold, the spinless enogies and affliated groups to Oba had to bow too.
There was no resistance.

Your village Monarchical system is defective and the ease with which the British brought you under colonial rule in a day proved it.

In contrast, the Igbo representative complex democracy proved superior in stopping a colonial force , because there was no particular all powerful head to decapitate.
The power resided with the people and whenever an acting head was decapitated, another head was quickly appointed.

StainlessG:
uncle calm down, most ika people I know do not identify as bini abi bini republician,
Stranger __ what tribe are you
Ika_man _ am Igbo from Delta State(most say Delta Igbo)
just that ika dialect differs(68% Igbo 22% gibberish 10% English)
100% ika family child names be like; chike, Chinwe, Ada, iffunanya, e.t.c, still a bini man?
I wonder where u see ika people denying Igbo identity
But talk true if them put gun for your head to deny your fulani identify, you nor go deny am?
Even me sef go speak French
The last time I checked the list of Nigerian tribes ika, ikwerre, anioma e.t.c were not among the list.
am from one of the ika local government in Delta sha

I remember my Ika acquaintances with the names Onyebuchi and Onyema who can't wait for the opportunity to explain to me how they are not Igbo. Of all my days in Benin and few weeks I've spent at Agbor, I've never seen an Ika man that Identifies as Igbo. I also have one acquaintance from Onitsha Ugbo that share the same view. To him they have no single thing to do with Igbo people. He was the one that told us one of the Funniest thing I have ever heard. That there is a difference between Igbo and Ibo. That they are Delta Ibo while we are Igbo.
So no need for you to change peoples encounter or the way Ika people see themselves with mere 13 lines post.
Fun fact: an Igbo man feels more secured at Gombe than Agbor. Ask around. It is more dangerous for an Igbo man to stay in Agbor than Osogbo.
Ika is not and will never be Igbo.

Igbo n mouth.

I guess the British are not humans but gods ba abi na lion they born them.

You comment like lunatics on NL as if u your medulla does not work.

Ariani:


You are not okay.

No man born of human ever penetrated Igboland and went Scot free.

Igbos had no useless kings that once captured everyone else bows down to the one who captured the king.
It made it hard to defeat Igbos. We had council of elders and leaders of age grades, as well as titled men council who all gather and take decisions.
We were way more advanced than primitive Monarchical societies where one retarded fat king dictated for all man.

Bini kingdom fell to British in matter of days, while the British needed decades to defeat the Enuani Igbo clan.
Aro-Anglo war was on for months. Full blown war.
No ethnicity in Nigeria, pre colonial or post colonial had more capabilities of withstanding and resisting tyranny, invasion or colonialism than Igbo land.

Stop bringing your beer parlour gist outside

Denn:


Leave the subject since your understanding about it is limited bro

There is nothing like that. Yoruba religion is over hyped by those obsessed with it especially since it survived amongst descendants of slaves in the new world.

Over time, Yoruba religion has come � represent the go to indigenous religion of sub-Saharan African to lazy folks that don't want to read about the existence of other West Africans so I understand why supremacist like you make this sort of claims to malign others.


Afa has nothing to do with your Ifa. They are independent 0f each other.

ariesbull:
Anglo Aro war lasted over 5 yrs

No. The war has not even ended

Denn:


Let's start with this.

How did Afa get to Ndigbo?

Why not start with how did Yorubas get to Ife?
Who did they meet there when they arrived?
Who gave Bini it's civilization? Was it not the Yorubas from Ife who ended the Ogisos and established the current Yoruba Oba system in Ile Ibinu?

Denn:


First, you claim there is no relationship whatsoever between ifa and afa, i showed you the relationships with evidence.

If you have verifiable sources to debunk my claims and that of authorities on this, please help us all and bring it to light.

Claims that are backed with evidence become facts

There is nothing to debunk when you come with supremacist statements and delusional comments.
What you are doing is no different from what Reno did.

Ariani:


Why not start with how did Yorubas get to Ife?
Who did they meet there when they arrived?
Who gave Bini it's civilization? Was it not the Yorubas from Ife who ended the Ogisos and established the current Yoruba Oba system in Ile Ibinu?

Don't lets mix matters up.

Lets start with you providing an answer to the question i asked. Once we are done with that, we will visit any other area you so desire.

So, How did Afa get to Ndigbo?

Exponential101:
Igbo n mouth.

I guess the British are not humans but gods ba abi na lion they born them.

You comment like lunatics on NL as if u your medulla does not work.

The British suffered for 5 full months to bring Arochukwu under control. And it didn't even end the there.
They had to fight other groups in Igboland too.
They didn't go Scot free. They lost resources and humans.
It's not bragging, we are stating the fact.
We are not a people with village Monarchical system who take pride in one fat lazy man with multitude of wives rulling over them, yet couldn't resist Colonials for more than 2 days.

It's pathetic! Since some of you will not dey your dey and leave Igbo alone. It's time we tore your fragile egos built on fables and fairy tales apart.

Ariani:


It's not even same thing.
It's just a mere coincidence that Orisha( this is how Yorubas pronounce it with "sh"

)rhymed with Orisa which is but a dialectical variation of Olisa.

The origin of the words are different.

Orisha in Yoruba has something to do with head, as head means "Ori" in Yoruba. For Comparison, Head is "Isi/Ishi" in Igbo.

But Olisa in Igbo is a contraction of the sentence "O li isaa", meaning : "what is greater than seven", or "what swallows seven".

In Igbo cosmology, the number 7 is very important and considered the highest number of the men realm. Once something exceed seven (Isaa) in Igbo cosmology, it is assumed to have become metaphysical. People are believed to reincarnate 7 times on Earth before they moved to different spirit realm in Igbo religion.

That's why in Igbo fairy tales, when some one has to go to the spirit world, we say " Oga fe ofia isaa (asaa) na mmli isaaa(asaa) , ruo be ndi mmuo"
Meaning he crossed seven forests and seven Rivers and got to the spirit land.

"Oli isaa"(what is beyond the 7th) is the representation of the metaphysical in Igbo cosmology and spirituality, that's how it also came to represent Chukwu/Chineke/ Chiokike/Obasi, because this being is recognized to be a metaphysical being that dwell in the spirit world that lie beyond the number 7.

Bottom line is that the similarity in words between Orisha in Yoruba and Olisa in Igbo are mere coincidence, and they are not even pronounced alike, as both words when broken down to their meaning in both languages,have different meaning and origins.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.