₦airaland Forum

Thank you for your reply.

Now my question is this?

Do you believe a man named Jesus once walked the earth in a certain geographical location?

Also change the name "Jesus" to "Plato", "Archimedes", "Buddha", "Benito Mussolini", "Adolf Hitler" after answering the first question.

LordReed:
By gathering the evidence that points exclusively to the conclusion that it has objective manifestation.

The discriminating eye of a cognoscente

Tetehjewels:
Ahh a connoisseur of classical music

Great question. In this regard a lot of people tend to erroneously try to set up very lofty measures to test out the existence of God and they keep failing at this because as much as God is Omniscient He is also very personal and relatable even to the lowest of levels.

Thus the easiest way to prove His existence is via personalized ways which is why conversions are always via PERSONAL convictions and experiences.

James 4: 10 "Humble YOURSELF before God and He will exalt you".... (I could say he would exalt you to the point of experiencing Him for yourself).

Tetehjewels:
Ahh a connoisseur of classical music

Great question. In this regard a lot of people tend to erroneously try to set up very lofty measures to test out the existence of God and they keep failing at this because as much as God is Omniscient He is also very personal and relatable even to the lowest of levels.

Thus the easiest way to prove His existence is via personalized ways which is why conversions are always via PERSONAL convictions and experiences.

James 4: 10 "Humble YOURSELF before God and He will exalt you".... (I could say he would exalt you to the point of experiencing Him for yourself).

LoL! If only the personal experiences where consistent from one person to the next. In reality this personalised god is the reason we have wars of religion. If it was a singular god revealing his or herself or itself or however the proper address is, disagreement would not be had.

StJohnofChrist:
Thank you for your reply.

Now my question is this?

Do you believe a man named Jesus once walked the earth in a certain geographical location?

Also change the name "Jesus" to "Plato", "Archimedes", "Buddha", "Benito Mussolini", "Adolf Hitler" after answering the first question.

There is evidence someone we now call Jesus was on Earth at some point, as there is evidence for the other people you mention.

LordReed:
Yes the brain is the source of mind or more succinctly the brain is the conglomeration of functions which give rise to the mind, we have evidence that this is the case. We have no evidence that minds can be present without functional brains.

BTW you didn't answer my questions, if there is a mind behind the universe where is it located and how can we know it?

You can consider the brain as a conduit for the mind but not a holder of the mind as it were and this is why once the conduit dies the channel closes but still remains open elsewhere.

The level of creativity of an individual is only limited by the scope of his mind which we can chose to leave the channel open or block it off due to doubt. Notice the use of the word CREATIVITY? Doesn't it remind you of another word that sounds like it and with similar spelling? �

If via our creativity fueled by our mind we are able to CREATE do you not think A MIND fueled the creativity behind creation?

StJohnofChrist:
Yes!!
Questions.
Good questions.

The planets, the ones that make up the solar system. Couldn't there have been a mind capable of such...such...such magnificence?

The fact that there's you're here on this forum.
Wait...you'll say it's as a result of your parents knowing themselves, yes, you're right, the ovum, testosterone and Bio-chemical activities therein. Say, down to the microscopic levels, what could have brought about the coordination of these things, what could have brought about the existence, coordination of these cells and what they do in the body?
There must be an intelligent, unseen being responsible for this, No?
Perhaps, you'll say the red and white blood cells function due to the term called "adaptation" in line with the concept of evolution. Well, what could be responsible for the materials involved in evolution in itself?
Big bang?
How did the meteors and celestial rocks come about, how is there a Sun ☀ which just works perfectly to nurture plants and aid growth in mankind. What's responsible for the intelligence of man? Your parents again?

Cells again?

Okay now we are about to go into a loop.

Note that you are the one bringing up evolution and Big bang not me.

Yes, I think all things arise from physical processes that are the result of the 4 fundamental forces of the universe interacting with energy to produce very effects. No I don't believe an intelligence is behind it because these interactions can be seen functioning without the presence of any mind. These processes are built on or preceeded by other processes going back till where our capabilities to investigate are exhausted. If you posit there is a mind you need to answer how you know this mind exists and how others can know it.

Tetehjewels:
You can consider the brain as a conduit for the mind but not a holder of the mind as it were and this is why once the conduit dies the channel closes but still remains open elsewhere.

The level of creativity of an individual is only limited by the scope of his mind which we can chose to leave the channel open or block it off due to doubt. Notice the use of the word CREATIVITY? Doesn't it remind you of another word that sounds like it and with similar spelling? �

If via our creativity fueled by our mind we are able to CREATE do you not think A MIND fueled the creativity behind creation?

You still haven't answered my question.

LordReed:
LoL! If only the personal experiences where consistent from one person to the next. In reality this personalised god is the reason we have wars of religion. If it was a singular god revealing his or herself or itself or however the proper address is, disagreement would not be had.

Personal experiences cannot be consistent because it's not a science.

This is why it is Personal. This is why we have different time zones. This is why we live in different places. This is why we have different experiences. This is why we love different types of food. This is why you are where you are typing this and I am where I am.

There is no general laboratory for every experience.

I hope you understand why I had to itemize each experience above

LordReed:
You still haven't answered my question.

I don't need to because my mind isn't closed.

Okay. Great logic there.

But you should be critical about such sensitive topics to avoid error in understanding.

Brains are essentially a group of clustered neurons. Filled with these nerve cells, animals (including humans) control all bodily functions, all bodily functions ☝�

Now permit me to list a animals that do not have a Brain according to what a brain is, that pink, sometimes red, blueish hemisphere residing In our skulls or wherever they lie.
1. Jellyfish
2. Starfish
3. Sea cucumber
4. Sea sponges
5.Oysters
6. Portuguese man-o-war
Et cetera.

Would you say these animals do not have a mind?

Wait...just so you know, animals do have minds but perhaps you've seen a fallacy, an error.

Even technologies have a mind of their own.

LordReed:
Yes the brain is the source of mind or more succinctly the brain is the conglomeration of functions which give rise to the mind, we have evidence that this is the case. We have no evidence that minds can be present without functional brains.

BTW you didn't answer my questions, if there is a mind behind the universe where is it located and how can we know it?

Good.

Now do you believe historical records kept about the other people mentioned, how that one lived in India or so, one was a dictator and the many murders committed, how one wrote many philosophical materials, how one was an Italian and many events occurring in their lives?

LordReed:
There is evidence someone we now call Jesus was on Earth at some point, as there is evidence for the other people you mention.

I only mentioned the big bang just to allow for my point to arrive home if incase there was.

Do you believe in the inherent desire of humans to find out about if there is an unseen being responsible for all that be? If yes, why do you think so.

LordReed:
Note that you are the one bringing up evolution and Big bang not me.

Yes, I think all things arise from physical processes that are the result of the 4 fundamental forces of the universe interacting with energy to produce very effects. No I don't believe an intelligence is behind it because these interactions can be seen functioning without the presence of any mind. These processes are built on or preceeded by other processes going back till where our capabilities to investigate are exhausted. If you posit there is a mind you need to answer how you know this mind exists and how others can know it.

StJohnofChrist:
Good.

Now do you believe historical records kept about the other people mentioned, how that one lived in India or so, one was a dictator and the many murders committed, how one wrote many philosophical materials, how one was an Italian and many events occurring in their lives?

Believe is not a word I would use. I accept that these people existed in as far as we reckon that humans exist and have been existing for some time. The events in their lives that have no supernatural connotation are also accepted since they are the everyday things we see around us. The supernatural events are rejected because no evidence can be established for their actuality.

StJohnofChrist:
I only mentioned the big bang just to allow for my point to arrive home if incase there was.

Do you believe in the inherent desire of humans to find out about if there is an unseen being responsible for all that be? If yes, why do you think so.

You keep asking me questions without answering mine. Conversations are 2 way Street. Answer my questions so we can continue.

StJohnofChrist:
Okay. Great logic there.

But you should be critical about such sensitive topics to avoid error in understanding.

Brains are essentially a group of clustered neurons. Filled with these nerve cells, animals (including humans) control all bodily functions, all bodily functions ☝�

Now permit me to list a animals that do not have a Brain according to what a brain is, that pink, sometimes red, blueish hemisphere residing In our skulls or wherever they lie.
1. Jellyfish
2. Starfish
3. Sea cucumber
4. Sea sponges
5.Oysters
6. Portuguese man-o-war
Et cetera.

Would you say these animals do not have a mind?

Wait...just so you know, animals do have minds but perhaps you've seen a fallacy, an error.

Even technologies have a mind of their own.

Are you describing response to stimuli as mind? What definition of mind is consistent with describing an oyster as having a mind?

Tetehjewels:
I don't need to because my mind isn't closed.

LoL! OK but expect me to answer yours. Well if you don't want to have a conversation then that is your perogative.

LordReed:
You keep asking me questions without answering mine. Conversations are 2 way Street. Answer my questions so we can continue.

Ohh!

Tetehjewels:
My Son is super smart and at 8 has already been given double promotion twice in school. The 1st one he got was in the 2nd term of that year and he was only able to join the new class in their 3rd term yet he still came first and the school thought it necessary to move him again. So he is now in a class with kids 3yrs older than he is and already besting them too.

We are a very God loving family and even though I have never sat my son down to talk to him about God, I do ensure he goes to Church with me and joins me in my daily morning devotions. I do notice that he has an extremely inquisitive mind and would rather watch educational channels on DStv than cartoons especially since they stopped showing his best cartoon "Goku"

So we have this neighbour who is from Greece. His 7 yr old son and my son can be considered best of friends and they visit each other at will. So on this day he came to visit and while they were hanging out I suddenly heard them arguing from his room. Normally their arguments would be over a video game or something else but this one was interesting. They were arguing about God!

I stood by the door and listened. Apparently that day revealed to me that my neighbour is an atheist but I never knew and he has been indoctrinating his 7yr old son along those lines because I clearly heard the boy say to my Son, "God does not exist, he is just a story"

So here is the convo

Him: God is not real, He does not exist, He is just a story

My Son: Ethan what did you say?

Him: God is not real, He is just like Santa who also isn't real

My Son: How do you know he isn't real?

Him: Well my dad said he isn't real because he just isn't. Have you seen him?

My Son: So your dad says God isn't real because he hasn't seen him? So something isn't real because you can't see it? But what about feeling Him?

Him: Feelings are not something we can um um fully determine because they can be misleading

My Son: How can you say Feelings are misleading, you are my friend right? (He goes yeah?) So how are you sure you are my friend if your feelings can be misleading. Can you say your feelings misled you into being my friend?

Him: No that's not what I was trying to say

My Son cuts him off with a sharp tone: So if your feelings did not mislead you into being my friend how then do feelings mislead you?

Him: Have you felt God before?

My Son: No but I do know that I think about him a lot

Him: umm umm but How would you possibly be thinking about something that does not exist

My Son: Exactly Ethan!

At this point I step into the room and cheerfully say Okay guys playtime is over (because I needed to stop the argument and get my Son to study by asking his friend to go home)

However his final comment "Exactly Ethan" resonated with me and made me think that comment was actually directed at Ethan's dad and not Ethan because apparently he had been talking about the non existence of God to his Son A LOT!

So how do you constantly talk or think about Something or Someone that doesn't exist?

/

Are you a court recorder to have captured the debate ad verbatim?

/

Well I only see two smart kids.

Whatever kids learn, they learn from their parents.
Don't forget, anyone who says there is no God is a fool. No be abuse. Na fact.
The evidences are around you.
From the lakes to the oceans to the sun to the moon to your entire body to your brain to the different fruits and foods and vegetables and plants and animals and photosynthesis and sex and DNA. All these didn't create themselves.
DON'T BE A FOOL

Funny thing about this is; your son will most likely become an atheist in the future when he remembers that he didn't actually answer the boy's questions.

Tetehjewels:
Personal experiences cannot be consistent because it's not a science.

This is why it is Personal. This is why we have different time zones. This is why we live in different places. This is why we have different experiences. This is why we love different types of food. This is why you are where you are typing this and I am where I am.

There is no general laboratory for every experience.

I hope you understand why I had to itemize each experience above

An objective existing thing cannot be personalised without error. I am wearing brown shoes, anybody who sees me recognises I am wearing brown shoes. If someone comes and says I am wearing black shoes we realise something is going on with that person because he is attempting to personalise something objective. If a god exists and is revealing himself to individuals then either something is wrong with that method or with the individuals since they cannot agree on what they are experiencing.

LOL

I'm just concerned that you people have so heavily indoctrinated kids that you are coming here to brag about them arguing over something they barely have their own ideas of.


Basically, both your son and the atheist Greek boy are parroting whatever narratives they have been fed by their parents, not even things they have studied and have a proper understanding of.

They are kids, their ideas are not even theirs.

This thread is just weird

InvertedHammer:
/

Are you a court recorder to have captured the debate ad verbatim?

/

LOL

Valid question.

OtemAtum:
Hmm. [s]The BOOK OF UNIVERSAL HISTORY already predicted a time like this when at very tender age our kids will be arguing God-related matters. I'm happy seeing this already. The concepts of God which are available right now are the ones atheists and irreligious people see and antagonize. For instance, how will you say that God is Jehovah or Allah? Their personalities and frivolities are enough for a 5 year old kid of this generation to detect that they can't fit as God with their myopic explanation of creations, reality and the universe.

Maybe when the world finally comes to understand that THE TOTALITY OF EXISTENCE is God Almighty, then we might not be having atheists in the world again, since all atheists are aware that there is EXISTENCE and so there will be TOTALITY OF EXISTENCE(God Almighty). But for you to say that God Almighty is one of the gods in one religion or the other, then atheists will surely antagonize you.

So I think the reason why atheists keep talking about that your god is because you keep telling them that he or she is their God.[/s]

Another Gibberish.....

I pray you find Redemption soonest...

Religion is useful but a critical and philosophical look at the characters that make them up betray them.

I still don't understand how a loving father will throw you into hell fire to burn forever and ever for a crime (if it's even worthy to be called such) we committed in a very short span.

If your son is really as super smart as you say he is, he'd get to this point and experience crisis but that crisis will give him better vision.

Whether God exists or not is not really my problem. My problem is with the morality of God. Is this God good? Is she/he worthy to be God? Is /she/he upright?

johnydon22:
In what planet did your son win the argument? First, your son tried to establish feeling as a basis for God's existence, committing the first blunder of mistaking emotions to somehow infer objective existence of an entity.

Then even though your son tried to establish feelings as a basis for the existence of God, he also agreed he never felt God but rather thinks about God a lot, how on earth is thinking about something a pointer that it exists in reality?

Thinking only alludes to conceptual existence not actual.

Example: Dragons does not exist because we think about them a lot, Captain America do not exist because we think of him a lot, the avengers do not exist because they awake intense emotions (feelings) in us whenever we read about their fictitious heroic deeds in comics or movies.

Conceptually, these fictitious ideas exist, in reality, they do not.

Your son strawmaned the other kids argument, based his on a faulty premise and just talked over the other kid.

There is absolutely nothing smart about your fictitious son, bring out your arguments proudly instead of trying to heap them on an eight year old that exists only in your imaginations.

I like you , you read between lines ...

InvertedHammer:
/

Are you a court recorder to have captured the debate ad verbatim?

/

Like I said, I stood by the door and listened. As a parent you need to pay attention to what your kids talk about when together so he knows to always leave his room door wide open when his friend is over

Tetehjewels:
My Son is super smart and at 8 has already been given double promotion twice in school. The 1st one he got was in the 2nd term of that year and he was only able to join the new class in their 3rd term yet he still came first and the school thought it necessary to move him again. So he is now in a class with kids 3yrs older than he is and already besting them too.

We are a very God loving family and even though I have never sat my son down to talk to him about God, I do ensure he goes to Church with me and joins me in my daily morning devotions. I do notice that he has an extremely inquisitive mind and would rather watch educational channels on DStv than cartoons especially since they stopped showing his best cartoon "Goku"

So we have this neighbour who is from Greece. His 7 yr old son and my son can be considered best of friends and they visit each other at will. So on this day he came to visit and while they were hanging out I suddenly heard them arguing from his room. Normally their arguments would be over a video game or something else but this one was interesting. They were arguing about God!

I stood by the door and listened. Apparently that day revealed to me that my neighbour is an atheist but I never knew and he has been indoctrinating his 7yr old son along those lines because I clearly heard the boy say to my Son, "God does not exist, he is just a story"

So here is the convo

Him: God is not real, He does not exist, He is just a story

My Son: Ethan what did you say?

Him: God is not real, He is just like Santa who also isn't real

My Son: How do you know he isn't real?

Him: Well my dad said he isn't real because he just isn't. Have you seen him?

My Son: So your dad says God isn't real because he hasn't seen him? So something isn't real because you can't see it? But what about feeling Him?

Him: Feelings are not something we can um um fully determine because they can be misleading

My Son: How can you say Feelings are misleading, you are my friend right? (He goes yeah?) So how are you sure you are my friend if your feelings can be misleading. Can you say your feelings misled you into being my friend?

Him: No that's not what I was trying to say

My Son cuts him off with a sharp tone: So if your feelings did not mislead you into being my friend how then do feelings mislead you?

Him: Have you felt God before?

My Son: No but I do know that I think about him a lot

Him: umm umm but How would you possibly be thinking about something that does not exist

My Son: Exactly Ethan!

At this point I step into the room and cheerfully say Okay guys playtime is over (because I needed to stop the argument and get my Son to study by asking his friend to go home)

However his final comment "Exactly Ethan" resonated with me and made me think that comment was actually directed at Ethan's dad and not Ethan because apparently he had been talking about the non existence of God to his Son A LOT!

So how do you constantly talk or think about Something or Someone that doesn't exist?

Abeg wetin be this novel name. I wan buy am. Imagine the polished English.

Not really response to stimuli.
It's that they are conscious, they seek to live, avoid death and have feelings to.
According to Wikipedia: The mind is the set of faculties responsible for mental phenomena. Often the term is also identified with the phenomena themselves. ... They are responsible for various mental phenomena, like perception, pain experience, belief, desire, intention and emotion.

So since an oyster does desire, and has perception, we can say therefore it does have a mind, even though a brain is absent, yes?

Is that satisfactory of a creature with a mind?
Or you subscribe to the belief that having a mind means thinking about all these complex stuff we are saying and things like that?

Sorry, these questions are rhetoric.

LordReed:
Are you describing response to stimuli as mind? What definition of mind is consistent with describing an oyster as having a mind?

Karleb:
Funny thing about this is; your son will most likely become an atheist in the future when he remembers that he didn't actually answer the boy's questions.

He is smarter than that. He is MY SON so I know