Gnosis777:


Correction, I'm not making sense to "you" because you refuse to reason beyond emotions and your limited understanding of a complex issue like abortion. And yes condoms are cheap, but are they universally accessible in every part of the world? You do understand that contraceptive access is not equal for everyone on this planet, right? You and I may have easy access to contraceptives, but what about someone living in a poor remote village or other poor part of the world? Do they have the same equal access?

Oh and I guess, you're now starting to read my "gibberish", huh genius?

a cheaper option is abstinence. Or masturbat1on. People who want abortion are people who do not want responsibility of sex. They think sex is just fun, it comes with a heavy responsibility.

cocoduck:
a cheaper option is abstinence. Or masturbat1on. People who want abortion are people who do not want responsibility of sex. They think sex is just fun, it comes with a heavy responsibility.

You sure keep responding to me, while claiming you don't read my posts. But anywho, your response is rife with generalizations. So every woman who seeks an abortion is doing so because they are sexually irresponsible? So, there are no cases that involve rape of women and girls? Especially in a country like Nigeria, where there are rape cases posted frequently right here on this forum. Ever venture into the crime section and see how often young girls are raped by old perverted males? I guess those young girls who were raped were also sexually irresponsible and careless according to your logic. Look, it's clear that you have no intent to consider other situations. You are purposefully overlooking situations such as rape and also never responded to my previous post when I mentioned the accessibility of birth control in poor remote parts of the world.

Gnosis777:


You sure keep responding to me, while claiming you don't read my posts. But anywho, your response is rife with generalizations. So every woman who seeks an abortion is doing so because they are sexually irresponsible? So, there are no cases that involve rape of women and girls? Especially in a country like Nigeria, where there are rape cases posted frequently right here on this forum. Ever venture into the crime section and see how often young girls are raped by old perverted males? I guess those young girls who were raped were also sexually irresponsible and careless according to your logic. Look, it's clear that you have no intent to consider other situations. You are purposefully overlooking situations such as rape and also never responded to my previous post when I mentioned the accessibility of birth control in poor remote parts of the world.

Rape is less than one percent okay? The other 99% are just fun seekers. Even if we can have an exception for the rape victims, but I still believe that the child is innocent and shouldn't be killed for the crimes of his useless father. Another exception is if the mother's life is in danger, and we can have both, I suggest that we save the mother. That's it.

cocoduck:
Rape is less than one percent okay? The other 99% are just fun seekers. Even if we can have an exception for the rape victims, but I still believe that the child is innocent and shouldn't be killed for the crimes of his useless father. Another exception is if the mother's life is in danger, and we can have both, I suggest that we save the mother. That's it.

So rape is 1% all over the world you say? Is that 1% based on the cases that aren't even reported or cases where it is outright dismissed? Care to provide a link that shows the breakdown on a global level? And even in your country Nigeria, I highly doubt that 1% figure you quoted because there's almost a rape case posted every few days in the crime section on this website. Look, I'm not changing my stance and I will continue to be an advocate for preserving a woman's right to choose concerning her own body and you can continue to maintain your stance on the issue as well. Bye

Gnosis777:


So rape is 1% all over the world you say? Is that 1% based on the cases that aren't even reported or cases where it is outright dismissed? Care to provide a link that shows the breakdown on a global level? And even in your country Nigeria, I highly doubt that 1% figure you quoted because there's almost a rape case posted every few days in the crime section on this website. Look, I'm not changing my stance and I will continue to be an advocate for preserving a woman's right to choose concerning her own body and you can continue to maintain your stance on the issue as well. Bye

Bro! Go to hell okay? Go to hell with your stupid stance. Abortion is now illegal in Red states in the US, and ther is nothing you can do about it. GTFOH.

cocoduck:
Bro! Go to hell okay? Go to hell with your stupid stance. Abortion is now illegal in Red states in the US, and ther is nothing you can do about it. GTFOH.

Oh, you couldn't provide any stats to back of your bullsh*t nonsensical argument. First, your stupid ass claimed that you didn't read anything I wrote, but kept responding to my posts anyway. And now your ass want to throw a tantrum based off of "CHOOSING" to keep responding to me. With that said, you f*ck off my mentions! I never asked your ignorant ass to respond to me in the first place. Take your confused, I don't read your posts, but I'm going to keep responding to you anyway.... the hell on!

VEHINTOLAR:


I honestly don't get your argument here. Are you for or against abortion ? Are you saying if it becomes critically necessary to carry out an abortion to save the life of a pregnant woman whose life is in danger as a result of the pregnancy she carries that such a procedure shouldn't be carried out ? So you'll rather prefer both the woman and the unborn child to die because if you all want to criminalise abortion let it be total, even when a woman comes bleeding let her God save her or let her bleed and die ! Your point there is scary ! It can be likened to the saying that because it is ungodly to work on a Sabbath therefore, it is not right or godly to save lives or help the needy on a Sabbath ! I wouldn't want to go any further on this but my argument basically is that abortion is a sin before the Lord,God and it shouldn't be encouraged. And for crying out loud,unwanted pregnancies are preventable !

I do not support abortion because God frowns seriously at it. Every life belongs to God and nobody has any right to take it willingly.

If God frowns at it, what then gives us the moral compass to say it's not a sin again because the live of a woman is at risk??
Can't God save her if she wants??

My point has always been, it's either we criminalise abortion in total or don't criminalise it at all.

Let there not be double standard.

It's either we agree to procure abortion for all or we completely outlaw it.

Gr8amechi:

If God frowns at it, what then gives us the moral compass to say it's not a sin again because the live of a woman is at risk??
Can't God save her if she wants??

My point has always been, it's either we criminalise abortion in total or don't criminalise it at all.

Let there not be double standard.

It's either we agree to procure abortion for all or we completely outlaw it.

If God frowns at it, what then gives us the moral compass to say it's not a sin again because the live of a woman is at risk??
Can't God save her if she wants??

Working on a Sabbath day is a sin before God but Jesus helped the needy on a Sabbath day. It is not a sin to help the needy or save lives under whatever circumstance. Spilled water can be refilled but when the pot is broken all is lost ! I ask you again; would you rather prefer both the pregnant woman and the unborn foetus to die because,according to you,it is either "we criminalise abortion in total or don't criminalise it at all"? The question of "moral compass" or whatever doesn't arise here because the pregnancy is not WILLINGLY terminated but it is done to save life ! It was the same way that Jesus Christ did not commit any sin by helping the needy on a Sabbath even though working on a Sabbath was sinful !

Can't God save her if she wants??

God can do all things but will not do all things. God will not do for a man what a man is capable of doing for himself !

Let there not be double standard.

There is no double standard here,you're the one twisting the whole thing just to suite your own narratives.

Abortion is sinful and should never be encouraged. if however,it becomes necessary to save the life of the pregnant woman,God is all merciful !

Digmygold:


If a man doesn't want a child with a woman, he should use his head by using a condom so as to avoid "stories that touch".

If he feels he will be more negatively affected by his actions or inactions, then he should take way more caution in avoiding what will cause him to put a woman in the family way knowing fully well that he will bear the brunt of the aftermath of his recklessness.

Simple as ABC.

If a woman knows she does not want to get pregnant and end up killing a baby through abortion she should use female condom and contraceptives or better still put ice block on her itchy p*ssy and abstain from sex.

Simple as ABC.

VEHINTOLAR:


If God frowns at it, what then gives us the moral compass to say it's not a sin again because the live of a woman is at risk??
Can't God save her if she wants??

Working on a Sabbath day is a sin before God but Jesus helped the needy on a Sabbath day. It is not a sin to help the needy or save lives under whatever circumstance. Spilled water can be refilled but when the pot is broken all is lost ! I ask you again; would you rather prefer both the pregnant woman and the unborn foetus to die because,according to you,it is either "we criminalise abortion in total or don't criminalise it at all"? The question of "moral compass" or whatever doesn't arise here because the pregnancy is not WILLINGLY terminated but it is done to save life ! It was the same way that Jesus Christ did not commit any sin by helping the needy on a Sabbath even though working on a Sabbath was sinful !

Can't God save her if she wants??

God can do all things but will not do all things. God will not do for a man what a man is capable of doing for himself !

Let there not be double standard.

There is no double standard here,you're the one twisting the whole thing just to suite your own narratives.

Abortion is sinful and should never be encouraged. if however,it becomes necessary to save the life of the pregnant woman,God is all merciful !

Your last statement clearly echoes hypocrisy.

My first premise is, if we all claim that abortion is murder, then why do we turn around to say it's no longer a murder because it's a risk to the life of the carrier??
For someone also who doesn't want the pregnancy do we put their mental health into consideration??

Like I said by WHO definition of health, it's not just about absence of disease, meaning if a woman is pregnant and the pregnancy affects her mental health and she is falling into depression, it's same as a woman who has severe cardiac decompensation and can't go any further with the pregnancy.
So if you claim it's right to abort for the woman who has a decompensation of her heart, I also advocate for the woman who is losing her mental health for a pregnancy she doesn't want to keep.

On your analogue of Sabbath day, Jesus came to fulfil both the law and the prophets, hence with his birth ended the whole thing about the Sabbath day.


A woman's health doesn't just end with chronic conditions, her mental health is also very essential.

If we want to criminalise abortion let's make it total, meaning even a woman with end stage renal disease or decompensated cardiomyopathy shouldn't be allowed to procure abortion.
Also anyone who has incomplete abortion shouldn't be completed.

Man claim God when he makes himself to be a rally point for what's justice and what's not justice.

Starzo:


If a woman knows she does not want to get pregnant and end up killing a baby through abortion she should use female condom and contraceptives or better still put ice block on her itchy p*ssy and abstain from sex.

Simple as ABC.

You are the man. The worst hit. Currently wailing over "child support". So if you like keep knacking them without protection make we see who shoe go pinch more. You or those women. Bro, if you like keep making babies you know you cannot cater for instead of being wise by using a condom, if you broke na your business.

Digmygold:


You are the man. The worst hit. Currently wailing over "child support". So if you like keep knacking them without protection make we see who shoe go pinch more. You or those women. Bro, if you like keep making babies you know you cannot cater for instead of being wise by using a condom, if you broke na your business.

I see you're incapable of having a logical argument.

Gr8amechi:

Your last statement clearly echoes hypocrisy.

My first premise is, if we all claim that abortion is murder, then why do we turn around to say it's no longer a murder because it's a risk to the life of the carrier??
For someone also who doesn't want the pregnancy do we put their mental health into consideration??

Like I said by WHO definition of health, it's not just about absence of disease, meaning if a woman is pregnant and the pregnancy affects her mental health and she is falling into depression, it's same as a woman who has severe cardiac decompensation and can't go any further with the pregnancy.
So if you claim it's right to abort for the woman who has a decompensation of her heart, I also advocate for the woman who is losing her mental health for a pregnancy she doesn't want to keep.

On your analogue of Sabbath day, Jesus came to fulfil both the law and the prophets, hence with his birth ended the whole thing about the Sabbath day.


A woman's health doesn't just end with chronic conditions, her mental health is also very essential.

If we want to criminalise abortion let's make it total, meaning even a woman with end stage renal disease or decompensated cardiomyopathy shouldn't be allowed to procure abortion.
Also anyone who has incomplete abortion shouldn't be completed.

Man claim God when he makes himself to be a rally point for what's justice and what's not justice.

.
Your opposition to abolition of abortion is not really hard or difficult to see. What's funny is your attempts to hide behind your usual " let's make it total " to advocate your opposition to it ! In essence,I can see that you're advocating for all manners of excuses as exceptions to the law so as to be able to carry out abortion willingly without having to contend with the law. That's exactly what you're doing.

When I said that abortion should only be allowed on health ground,there was no where I said it should be limited to "the woman who has a decompensation of her heart" only ! Any medical condition,which could be physical, mental or psychological,one that constitutes danger to the wellness of the carrier of the pregnancy is what I premised "health ground" on.

And for anyone (woman) who doesn't want the pregnancy,on what ground does she not want it ? If it is on health ground,let the expert examine the situation and advise the law court appropriately as to determine whether or not to grant the request for an abortion. This has to be so to prevent those who may want to be hiding behind "mental health" condition to carry out indiscriminate abortions as they want from doing so ! There must be a very serious reason for anyone to request an abortion and the "seriousness" of it has to be determined by the experts in the field while the court of law reserves all the rights as to whether or not to grant such request. Shikena !

Pregnancy is preventable,anyone who doesn't want it can as well avoid it. You are right about Jesus. He came not to condemn the laws and the prophecies but to uphold them. The point I made therein was that law could be violated under certain condition and it would not be seen as a crime or sin.

VEHINTOLAR:

.
Your opposition to abolition of abortion is not really hard or difficult to see. What's funny is your attempts to hide behind your usual " let's make it total " to advocate your opposition to it ! In essence,I can see that you're advocating for all manners of excuses as exceptions to the law so as to be able to carry out abortion willingly without having to contend with the law. That's exactly what you're doing.

When I said that abortion should only be allowed on health ground,there was no where I said it should be limited to "the woman who has a decompensation of her heart" only ! Any medical condition,which could be physical, mental or psychological,one that constitutes danger to the wellness of the carrier of the pregnancy is what I premised "health ground" on.

And for anyone (woman) who doesn't want the pregnancy,on what ground does she not want it ? If it is on health ground,let the expert examine the situation and advise the law court appropriately as to determine whether or not to grant the request for an abortion. This has to be so to prevent those who may want to be hiding behind "mental health" condition to carry out indiscriminate abortions as they want from doing so ! There must be a very serious reason for anyone to request an abortion and the "seriousness" of it has to be determined by the experts in the field while the court of law reserves all the rights as to whether or not to grant such request. Shikena !

Pregnancy is preventable,anyone who doesn't want it can as well avoid it. You are right about Jesus. He came not to condemn the laws and the prophecies but to uphold them. The point I made therein was that law could be violated under certain condition and it would not be seen as a crime or sin.

In response to the text in bold, I keep seeing this argument stated over and over again. But, in reality is it really all that avoidable when you look at it from a global perspective. For instance, rape cases do not fall into the category of consensual sex and although some may want to believe that rape only constitute a low percentage of unwanted pregnancies. You really can't accurately prove this through data, because what about third world countries that do not accurately report data on rape cases, and what about women and girls in hardline muslim countries who have little to no say when it comes to whether or not they want to conceive a child?

Also, what about women who are married to men who hold extremist religious views, like some Islamic practitioners who put pressure on the wives to have children. In a situation like this, how is it truly preventable if the man doesn't believe in contraceptives and pressures his wife to conceive based on religious views. Again, forced coercion doesn't equal consensual sex.

Gnosis777:


In response to the text in bold, I keep seeing this argument stated over and over again. But, in reality is it really all that avoidable when you look at it from a global perspective. For instance, rape cases do not fall into the category of consensual sex and although some may want to believe that rape only constitute a low percentage of unwanted pregnancies. You really can't accurately prove this through data, because what about third world countries that do not accurately report data on rape cases, and what about women and girls in hardline muslim countries who have little to no say when it comes to whether or not they want to conceive a child?

Also, what about women who are married to men who hold extremist religious views, like some Islamic practitioners who put pressure on the wives to have children. In a situation like this, how is it truly preventable if the man doesn't believe in contraceptives and pressures his wife to conceive based on religious views. Again, forced coercion doesn't equal consensual sex.

Any pregnancy that's as a result of rape should be flushed out,of course ! Rape is a traumatic experience that is capable of leading to a very serious mental illness for the victim. The trauma could be lifelong sometimes ! So,why would anyone want to keep the bye product of such awful and highly traumatic experience ? Under the law,a victim may seek to abort such pregnancy on health ground. Remember,this health ground could be physical,mental or psychological. So,rape is a good ground to seek a lawful or legal abortion.

As a matter of fact,rape victims are always advised to report cases of rape incidents immediately they happen not only in an attempt to arrest the perpetrators but also to give immediate medical assistance that will prevent cases of unwanted pregnancy and contraction of diseases. This shows clearly as well that possible pregnancy as a result of rape is even preventable if the incident is reported for immediate medical attention.

As for the women in some hardliners Islamic countries,it actually takes two to tango ! These women knew about the extremist religious views of those men before they agreed to marry them. The fact is that the women themselves in those countries share the same views as their men. So,what are we talking about here ? I think the woman can only seek a divorce in a court of law,provided the law permits that anyway,if she can no longer cope with her husband's desire for more children ? If there is a provision for divorce in their laws,,she can simply move out of the man's house. But like I said earlier, these women share same religious and worldly views with their husband in the Islamic world. A trip to Afghanistan will convince you ! America eventually left them on their own !

From whichever way anyone may want to look at at it,abortion is sinful and should never be encouraged. And I repeat, it should only be permitted on health ground.

VEHINTOLAR:


Any pregnancy that's as a result of rape should be flushed out,of course ! Rape is a traumatic experience that is capable of leading to a very serious mental illness for the victim. The trauma could be lifelong sometimes ! So,why would anyone want to keep the bye product of such awful and highly traumatic experience ? Under the law,a victim may seek to abort such pregnancy on health ground. Remember,this health ground could be physical,mental or psychological. So,rape is a good ground to seek a lawful or legal abortion.

As a matter of fact,rape victims are always advised to report cases of rape incidents immediately they happen not only in an attempt to arrest the perpetrators but also to give immediate medical assistance that will prevent cases of unwanted pregnancy and contraction of diseases. This shows clearly as well that possible pregnancy as a result of rape is even preventable if the incident is reported for immediate medical attention.

As for the women in some hardliners Islamic countries,it actually takes two to tango ! These women knew about the extremist religious views of those men before they agreed to marry them. The fact is that the women themselves in those countries share the same views as their men. So,what are we talking about here ? I think the woman can only seek a divorce in a court of law,provided the law permits that anyway,if she can no longer cope with her husband's desire for more children ? If there is a provision for divorce in their laws,,she can simply move out of the man's house. But like I said earlier, these women share same religious and worldly views with their husband in the Islamic world. A trip to Afghanistan will convince you ! America eventually left them on their own !

From whichever way anyone may want to look at at it,abortion is sinful and should never be encouraged. And I repeat, it should only be permitted on health ground.

I appreciate your decent and respectful response. Of course, there are certain aspects of your post that I obviously don't agree with, especially the last part. I feel like "sin" and religious views are subjective. Not everyone shares the same religious views, and not everyone believes in the concept of sin or what constitutes a "sin" . I disagree with enacting laws or making decisions based solely on someone else's religious/and or moral convictions and "their" concept of sin. And even with issues involving women who are married to men who hold religious extremist views; I think it's unfair to just generalize and say the women also hold the same views. You and I really don't know that to be 100% true, because it's not like many of them get to freely voice their opinions or views, or subscribe to alternative belief systems without facing extreme consequences, which could even include death. Even divorce isn't even that straightforward for women in situations like this. Probably the best they could do is try to flee their countries and move to a new country with more relaxed religious views, provided they have the financial means to do so.

Gnosis777:


I appreciate your decent and respectful response. Of course, there are certain aspects of your post that I obviously don't agree with, especially the last part. I feel like "sin" and religious views are subjective. Not everyone shares the same religious views, and not everyone believes in the concept of sin or what constitutes a "sin" . I disagree with enacting laws or making decisions based solely on someone else's religious/and or moral convictions and "their" concept of sin. And even with issues involving women who are married to men who hold religious extremist views; I think it's unfair to just generalize and say the women also hold the same views. You and I really don't know that to be 100% true, because it's not like many of them get to freely voice their opinions or views, or subscribe to alternative belief systems without facing extreme consequences, which could even include death. Even divorce isn't even that straightforward for women in situations like this. Probably the best they could do is try to flee their countries and move to a new country with more relaxed religious views, provided they have the financial means to do so.

Your submission here is fantastic ! I cannot but agree with you,absolutely. You looked at it from the perspectives which I did not even consider in my earlier submission ! Truly,how could anyone be so sure that those women hold the same religious or whatever views with their husbands/men ? The truth is that some of these women who can't cope with certain conditions in their native countries are now relocating to the western world or somewhere else. There is a growing number of young Arab men and women in Canada now according to a reliable source.

Many thanks for your beautiful submission here.

Starzo:

I see you're incapable of having a logical argument.

You are the illogical one. Instead of using your cucumber to reason, next time use your brain if you have any, so you won't keep grunting like a broke ass pig over child support.

VEHINTOLAR:


Your submission here is fantastic ! I cannot but agree with you,absolutely. You looked at it from the perspectives which I did not even consider in my earlier submission ! Truly,how could anyone be so sure that those women hold the same religious or whatever views with their husbands/men ? The truth is that some of these women who can't cope with certain conditions in their native countries are now relocating to the western world or somewhere else. There is a growing number of young Arab men and women in Canada now according to a reliable source.

Many thanks for your beautiful submission here.

Same here, enjoyed the discourse. I appreciate civil mature conversations.

Digmygold:


You are the illogical one. Instead of using your cucumber to reason, next time use your brain if you have any, so you won't keep grunting like a broke ass pig over child support.

point proven!...you people never fail to disappoint.

I feel vindicated

Starzo:


point proven!...you people never fail to disappoint.

I feel vindicated

"You people" includes your mother who skipped teaching you not to put a woman in the family way unless you are ready to start a family? Wailing wailer. Na child support you go pay die. Loose public dog.

Digmygold:


"You people" includes your mother who skipped teaching you not to put a woman in the family unless you are ready to start a family? Wailing wailer. Na child support you go pay die. Loose public dog.

; ...just so u know, tempering with your partner's condom to get pregnant so you can sit down with your fat *ss doing nothing but eating and growing obese from child support payments gotten from kids you use as atm cards is now a crime. It's called 'stealthing'.

Just thought you and your female relatives might need to know this.

Starzo:


; ...just so u know, tempering with your partner's condom to get pregnant so you can sit down with your fat *ss doing nothing but eating and growing obese from child support payments gotten from kids you use as atm cards is now a crime. It's called 'stealthing'.

Just thought you and your female relatives might need to know this.

Hahahahaha. Frustrated church *rat. I am responsibly married with four kids. Not a jobless retard like you who cannot control your public cucumber. Now wailing over child support. That you can go raw on women whom you are not willing to marry means you are a dirty pig. Carry your cross and wail into your shallow grave.

Digmygold:


Hahahahaha. Frustrated church *rat. I am responsibly married with four kids. Not a jobless retard like you who cannot control your public cucumber. Now wailing over child support. That you can go raw on women whom you are not willing to marry means you are a dirty pig. Carry your cross and wail into your shallow grave.

Take the advice

a word is enough for the wise


You might need a thousand words tho

Starzo:


Take the advice

a word is enough for the wise


You might need a thousand words tho

Advice your randy brain sorry cucumber and red account balance first. Muhehehehe!

Digmygold:


Advice your randy brain sorry cucumber red account balance first. Muhehehehe!

I actually reckoned you might need a thousand words so, I'm not surprised at this response.

But the thing is I don't have energy to dish out a hundred, talkless a thousand words.

So i'm done with you.

Starzo:


I actually reckoned you might need a thousand words so, I'm not surprised at this response.

But the thing is I don't have energy to dish out a hundred, talkless a thousand words.

So i'm done with you.

Stop being recklessly irresponsible by knacking women you are not willing to marry without protection. Go and hug transformer if you don't like paying child support. Deadbeat brat.