Reex12:
The looming war is needless, thousands will die and dragons will become extinct (until deanyrs).
Aegon is the rightful heir and rhaenyra was only chosen bcus of lack of options, vicerys knows this, its he killed her mother in desperation for a son. Now 2sons are borns to the king aegon and aemond how TF does she think she would surpass them for the throne?bcus she is older? She's a woman and children are bastards for bleeps sake evryone knows this even deanrys conquered cities for the throne but once she found out Jon is her brother's son she became insecure and begged Jon not to reveal his heritage, you know why? Yes he's the rightful king than she,

If Jon was wanted the throne men and kingdoms would kneel before him

in dorne the throne of sunspear goes to the eldest child male or female

Reex12:
otto highhtower's advise was good at the time for not declaring daemon hier bcus he would have been a tryant, they all knew it, they avoided that situation by naming the princess. But the king would still remarry and a male child would be born who would take his place, the lady rhaena made this clear to the princess when she presented little laena as a match to the king, that Remarrying was inevitable and no woman has ever ascended the ironthrone right from Aegon the conqueror, that menwage wars an women birth hiers, Even used herself as an example, the queen who never was

Otto aside if lady Leana had been offage at the time, she would have been made queen bcus everyone knew marrying the seasnake was the best choice for the kingdom, But blinded by love and circumstance he chose Alicent ,now a son Aegon is born and the iron throne is his birthright and not rhaenyra, or the Kingdom will tear itself apart,every common man in the street of Westeros knows this, as rhaenyra saw when she went adventuring into a carnival dressed as a boy

Even the king vicerys was chosen to be king over Rhaenys-the oldest female relative(the queen who never was) yet he decides to choose Rhaenyra over Aegon as Hier, which is against thier gods and men

how can you make such a statement as the bolded and still absolve Otto hightower saying he gave the best impartial advice? His advice was never impartial, he guided the king against naming daemon as his heir for reasons that were not impersonal, otherwise daemon could have been named heir and married of to rhaenyra to avoid all these! After helping make rhaenyra heir, he had his daughter entice Viserys in the guise of consoling him and didn't do his job as hand to counsel the king to marry little laena velaryon for duty so the king ended marrying his daughter who had no political significance to the kingdom! According to whom was daemon a tyrant? Abeg make una dey talk truth

Reex12:
even Daemon knows Aegon standing but his quest for power makes him loyal to his wife,
her kids are bastards for crying outloud, reason Daemon couldnt wife misaeryia the LovePeddler for she will beget bastards and not trueborns,

In GOT isn't this what caused stannis and his gay brother to lay claim the throne after rumors the fatman's kids weren't his

claim to ascension by blood derives from the previous monarch! Rhaenyras children are hers by blood whereas Robert's children are not his by blood so where does your confusion come from? In this terms, only the targaryean and baratheon blood counts, velaryon, strong and lannister blood doesn't count, understood?

olabolaji:


Ok I understand, Jon snow

he truly knows nothing

BraniacX:
it is not diabetes, it is a severe form of leprosy

Really? That thing literally turned him into a white walker.

chukwugoziegi:


Really? That thing literally turned him into a white walker.

whitewalkers were whole bodied, just icy, Viserys was .......

Wow.
Now the thread is spiced up.
I love it.
Guys, keep up with the engagement.

BraniacX:
the only power that can destroy the house of the dragon is the house of the dragon, that is the only philosophy Viserys is guided by and that is why at all costs he always tries to maintain peace amongst all the living targaryeans in a balancing act, going by the result of the civil war he was right, he was the wisest targaryean of that generation in my opinion, the rest of them had too much fire in their hearts and too much blood in their eyes

I still opine that viceroys wasn't a wise king,the fact that he purposely kept a blind eye and was obviously biased towards rhanerya,did he think he would love forever to keep covering for her? Remember that scene where he queried Aegon about who told him about rhaenera bastards,his reply was "look at them,everyone knows".he knew. Did he think that not acknowledging the problem would make it disappear? Why did he think the jaeharys council choose him over princess rhaenys? It was because he was male,he now has full targaryen sons and you'd expect the realm to accept his daughters? One full worth controversy?

BraniacX:
not every army has winding stone caves to retreat into when a dragon attacks, the lords of the realm asides the lannisters in casterly rock almost all exclusively live in stone, wood and mortar castles which are proud family heirlooms they won't risk destruction to and are totally undefended and indefensible against dragons, they all have to chose a side in the war to come and many will burn down to dragon fire so you're wrong, in this war dragons will decide battles

don't let the emotions get the best of us, I understand we like Dragons but even Sea Snake might be dead now with the Dragons they own. Let open our mind, episode 3 was made for us to understand that during old days that Dragon is just another weapon, not a game changer. We should move on from GOT that made us believe Dragons are gods

BraniacX:
read the books bro, the war didn't end even when all armies where depleted, the war ended effectively when the last combatant dragons died

This isn't the book. Dragon is a tool, just because you own a dragon doesn't mean your battle will be hot knife through butter. There are many pieces to the board. With no proper strategy my Knight or Bishop will be well doing than your Queen on the board. Don't forget Alicient will go whisper in the North soon which means lots of head will be spinning and more houses will be uniting

BraniacX:
how can you make such a statement as the bolded and still absolve Otto hightower saying he gave the best impartial advice? His advice was never impartial, he guided the king against naming daemon as his heir for reasons that were not impersonal, otherwise daemon could have been named heir and married of to rhaenyra to avoid all these! After helping make rhaenyra heir, he had his daughter entice Viserys in the guise of consoling him and didn't do his job as hand to counsel the king to marry little laena velaryon for duty so the king ended marrying his daughter who had no political significance to the kingdom! According to whom was daemon a tyrant? Abeg make una dey talk truth

Otto master minded everything, wanted her daughter to be king's wife, remember when he told his daughter to wear her mother's dress.

To tune down the argument, know your family tree very well before jumping into what's moral or not moral. The way Otto engraved his family name into history, very ruthless.

BraniacX:
how can you make such a statement as the bolded and still absolve Otto hightower saying he gave the best impartial advice? His advice was never impartial, he guided the king against naming daemon as his heir for reasons that were not impersonal, otherwise daemon could have been named heir and married of to rhaenyra to avoid all these! After helping make rhaenyra heir, he had his daughter entice Viserys in the guise of consoling him and didn't do his job as hand to counsel the king to marry little laena velaryon for duty so the king ended marrying his daughter who had no political significance to the kingdom! According to whom was daemon a tyrant? Abeg make una dey talk truth

god bless u. i don't even understand what those Guy's be saying blabing

I was just starting to like Vaemond Velaryon before he was killed by Daemon.
The guy had balls and courage and his concerns for his house we're very valid but sometimes he would have let sleeping dogs lie. (Rhenys, his sister-in-law knew exactly that going against Rheanyra , when her father was present was a very bad idea)

Challenging the King was a very stupid thing to do.
I really hated the fact that such a powerful character would die so stupidly.

dubylhover:


I still opine that viceroys wasn't a wise king,the fact that he purposely kept a blind eye and was obviously biased towards rhanerya,did he think he would love forever to keep covering for her? Remember that scene where he queried Aegon about who told him about rhaenera bastards,his reply was "look at them,everyone knows".he knew. Did he think that not acknowledging the problem would make it disappear? Why did he think the jaeharys council choose him over princess rhaenys? It was because he was male,he now has full targaryen sons and you'd expect the realm to accept his daughters? One full worth controversy?

I agree with you... King Viserys was a good King but he let his emotions cloud his judgement.
I could understand why he named Rheanyra his heir when he didn't have any more kids but still keeping her as his heir even when he has had 3 true born sons was his biggest mistake.
The mistake got worse when Rheanyra's kids with Leanor turned out to be obviously bastards (a fact everyone knew, even the boys themselves).
He could have done exactly the same thing King Jaeherys, his grandfather did by letting the Lords of the realm choose for themselves between his two children Aegon and Rhaenyra, who should sit on the iron throne.

Zee0007:
Who else noticed the smiles on Daemond's face when Aemond gave his final tribute?

It is that Daemond is seeing his younger self or what?

Exactly.

JoshTheStoic:
don't let the emotions get the best of us, I understand we like Dragons but even Sea Snake might be dead now with the Dragons they own. Let open our mind, episode 3 was made for us to understand that during old days that Dragon is just another weapon, not a game changer. We should move on from GOT that made us believe Dragons are gods

fact! The seasnake definitely isn't dead, he still has a major role in the actual dance of dragons to play I.e blockading kingslanding and the naval war with the triachy fleet the green enlisted to lift the blockade

BraniacX:
fact! The seasnake definitely isn't dead, he still has a major role in the actual dance of dragons to play I.e blockading kingslanding and the naval war with the triachy fleet the green enlisted to lift the blockade

How will he take the news if he learned that his brother was killed by Daemon, oh I forgot he himself so much believe his grandsons aren't bastards. If seasnake isn't dead, the story just got interesting

Vulcanheph:
I was just starting to like Vaemond Velaryon before he was killed by Daemon.
The guy had balls and courage and his concerns for his house we're very valid but sometimes he would have let sleeping dogs lie. (Rhenys, his sister-in-law knew exactly that going against Rheanyra , when her father was present was a very bad idea)

Challenging the King was a very stupid thing to do.
I really hated the fact that such a powerful character would die so stupidly.

His death was tragic

dubylhover:


I still opine that viceroys wasn't a wise king,the fact that he purposely kept a blind eye and was obviously biased towards rhanerya,did he think he would love forever to keep covering for her? Remember that scene where he queried Aegon about who told him about rhaenera bastards,his reply was "look at them,everyone knows".he knew. Did he think that not acknowledging the problem would make it disappear? Why did he think the jaeharys council choose him over princess rhaenys? It was because he was male,he now has full targaryen sons and you'd expect the realm to accept his daughters? One full worth controversy?

understand this, he is the king, kings by nature are autocratic, when he makes a decree and says white is black, white automatically becomes black in the eyes of the realm not because everybody is blind, it is because nobody is powerful enough or foolish enough to go against the king a live to keep their head, him knowing the kids are strongs and declaring them velaryons is him exercising his autocratic powers and daring anybody to contradict him, the only people who ever dared contradict him were his family because they knew he won't kill them, the first non-targayrean to put the accusations to voice lost his head courtesy daemon so I disagree, he was not biased to rhaenyra, he was biased to house targaryean in general including his cousin Rhaenys. The difference in this succession is that his grandfather Jaeherys' could have simply allowed the elder line to succeed him through Rhaenys, he wanted a male to succeed him hence he threw the decision to the lords of the realm, almost all of them male and the decision was a forgone conclusion! He only wanted to absolve himself of guilt and responsibility in the cheating of Rhaenys. Viserys by contrast declared his daughter rhaenyra heir and made the lords of the realm swear fealty to her and take oaths to support and defend her succession as his then only child, yet you expect him to show fickle indecisiveness and change his mind because a prince was later born? You can't make all the entire lords of the realm take an oath and be the first to discard the oath and still expect same fealty and reverence from them for your house. And yet you people think Viserys was a weak and foolish king. He might be very merciful but even when connected to Otto by marriage he was able to see and call Otto's service for what it was, self serving and he recognised lord strong as the real small council member who always put the realm first

JoshTheStoic:
How will he take the news if he learned that his brother was killed by Daemon, oh I forgot he himself so much believe his grandsons aren't bastards. If seasnake isn't dead, the story just got interesting

in his strides, the show already shows that he put his family name ahead of blood! His brother was plotting to succeed him against his will even before confirming his death, not cool at all from his perspective

Guys, sorry I will be a bit off the theme of discussion.

Please, who can help me explain how the night walkers came into being?

dubylhover:


I still opine that viceroys wasn't a wise king,the fact that he purposely kept a blind eye and was obviously biased towards rhanerya,did he think he would love forever to keep covering for her? Remember that scene where he queried Aegon about who told him about rhaenera bastards,his reply was "look at them,everyone knows".he knew. Did he think that not acknowledging the problem would make it disappear? Why did he think the jaeharys council choose him over princess rhaenys? It was because he was male,he now has full targaryen sons and you'd expect the realm to accept his daughters? One full worth controversy?

Acknowledge what?

What are you saying?

We are talking about family, damn Ser Leanor. Those kids have Rhaenyra's blood.

Acknowledge and have his daughter killed?
What are you saying?

JoshTheStoic:
don't let the emotions get the best of us, I understand we like Dragons but even Sea Snake might be dead now with the Dragons they own. Let open our mind, episode 3 was made for us to understand that during old days that Dragon is just another weapon, not a game changer. We should move on from GOT that made us believe Dragons are gods

Dragons is still a game changer, something Otto acknowledged.

The issue is, when your opponents knows you have a dragon, they will also deploy a way to combat it. Just like the crabbers were hiding inside those caves and also shooting arrows with fire.
But still on Still, Dragons are game changers. And recall that Viserys and his council failed to give support to the Sea snake to fight the Stepstones because he angrily left the council, if not the stepstones would have been defeated easily.

BraniacX:
understand this, he is the king, kings by nature are autocratic, when he makes a decree and says white is black, white automatically becomes black in the eyes of the realm not because everybody is blind, it is because nobody is powerful enough or foolish enough to go against the king a live to keep their head, him knowing the kids are strongs and declaring them velaryons is him exercising his autocratic powers and daring anybody to contradict him, the only people who ever dared contradict him were his family because they knew he won't kill them, the first non-targayrean to put the accusations to voice lost his head courtesy daemon so I disagree, he was not biased to rhaenyra, he was biased to house targaryean in general including his cousin Rhaenys. The difference in this succession is that his grandfather Jaeherys' could have simply allowed the elder line to succeed him through Rhaenys, he wanted a male to succeed him hence he threw the decision to the lords of the realm, almost all of them male and the decision was a forgone conclusion! He only wanted to absolve himself of guilt and responsibility in the cheating of Rhaenys. Viserys by contrast declared his daughter rhaenyra heir and made the lords of the realm swear fealty to her and take oaths to support and defend her succession as his then only child, yet you expect him to show fickle indecisiveness and change his mind because a prince was later born? You can't make all the entire lords of the realm take an oath and be the first to discard the oath and still expect same fealty and reverence from them for your house. And yet you people think Viserys was a weak and foolish king. He might be very merciful but even when connected to Otto by marriage he was able to see and call Otto's service for what it was, self serving and he recognised lord strong as the real small council member who always put the realm first

I love your perspective and you have helped throw more light on why he didn't change Rhaenyra as heir... Viserys was a honourable man but what was a fact in westeros was that a woman sitting on the iron throne will face a lot of challenges unlike a man... This is what Jaeherys knew that's why he didn't give Rhaenys the throne and manipulated it to be given to Viserys instead without really doing it himself.( just like you said).
When you're in a position of power you gotta learn to make hard decisions no matter what or who is involved.
If Viserys had called a council and made the people to choose who they want (which I'm sure , they would choose Aegon) ... Then the "Dance of the Dragons" would have never happened.

olabolaji:


They're not bastard their father laenor acknowledged them before he died/run away and they have the Targaryen blood in them so

exactly. What makes a child bastard is if there is no acknowledgement from the dad. Remember that bastard Bolton guy that raped sansa, he died a true born because his dad acknowledged him at the end

oyetpel:


Dragons is still a game changer, something Otto acknowledged.

The issue is, when your opponents knows you have a dragon, they will also deploy a way to combat it. Just like the crabbers were hiding inside those caves and also shooting arrows with fire.
But still on Still, Dragons are game changers. And recall that Viserys and his council failed to give support to the Sea snake to fight the Stepstones because he angrily left the council, if not the stepstones would have been defeated easily.

Let's see how this will turn out. I hope Seasnake is still alive.

Adek15:
exactly. What makes a child bastard is if there is no acknowledgement from the dad. Remember that bastard Bolton guy that raped sansa, he died a true born because his dad acknowledged him at the end

According to Game of Thrones, bastard is anyone born out of wedlock.

JoshTheStoic:
According to Game of Thrones, bastard is anyone born out of wedlock.

yes but a bastard can still be made a trueborn. For Rhenya case, she married her husband legally and the the husband acknowledged the kids.

Vulcanheph:
I love your perspective and you have helped throw more light on why he didn't change Rhaenyra as heir... Viserys was a honourable man but what was a fact in westeros was that a woman sitting on the iron throne will face a lot of challenges unlike a man... This is what Jaeherys knew that's why he didn't give Rhaenys the throne and manipulated it to be given to Viserys instead without really doing it himself.( just like you said).
When you're in a position of power you gotta learn to make hard decisions no matter what or who is involved.
If Viserys had called a council and made the people to choose who they want (which I'm sure , they would choose Aegon) ... Then the "Dance of the Dragons" would have never happened.

Exactly,he just set rhanerya up for war,left to me,he's the cause of the *dance of dragons*

Zee0007:
Guys, sorry I will be a bit off the theme of discussion.

Please, who can help me explain how the night walkers came into being?

Read up

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Others

Adek15:
yes but a bastard can still be made a trueborn. For Rhenya case, she married her husband legally and the the husband acknowledged the kids.

Okay.