otipoju:
Celestial born, Cele raised, Cele raising my kids, Cele till I die.

Ibiyomie and Adeboye are puffed up charlatans who believe their own hype.

Imagine a pastor saying there are demonic psams inside the bible

As in ehn ah ah, father lord, this is unbelievable and the masses gonna swallow his bile hook line and sinker. It is well, I just can't belive this from a Christian heavy weight.

Telegon:
This thread started out so bright before going sour at the end.

I would have loved to see more of fxmasterz and otipoju argument rather than the character assassination that is playing at the end of this thread, because I learnt a lot from those two.

To the white garment church goers, we're just trying to understand your doctrine because it appears as a strange practice to us. Otipoju has done a lot of justice in clarifying some of your practices but there are still some parts I'm not satisfied with like the part of the candle lighting, some of the white garment prophets will go as far as placing the candles in specific order to do their deliverance or prayers.

This practice tends to bear resemblance with the occultic people's own. This is what led to the scepticism around your doctrine. Please know that this question is born out of sheer curiosity.

And to those using Catholic as a point of defence, it is actually weak because why would their be reformation that gave rise to many church denominations in christendom if Catholic practice is perfectly christ-like. The reformers disagreed with the unbiblical practices of Catholic which led to the formation of new churches.

Church denominations are still being formed. There are many reformers and disagreements even in the pentecostal fold. So would you say there are also unbiblical practices by the parent Pentecostal churches like Living Faith?

Dayo Olutayo left Living faith church to form Good tidings
Bishop George Adjeman left same church to form Winners Ghana chapel

And a whole lot!

bolacode:


The Holy One of Israel is your Shield and Refuge, and no weapon fashioned against you shall prosper in the blessed name of Yeshua The Son of The Most High! Amen

Amen sister.
I'm very grateful.

Gajagojo:

Like I said your father cannot look at me and face me and call me a liar

If you have no self respect,I do
calling me a liar is an insult and in our exchange you started the insult

Which makes you uncouth,mannerless,devoid of home training,common sense or wisdom

Learn how to address people politely even in the course of disagreement

You lied. Stop deflecting. You claimed there's no evil forest in Yoruba culture which is a big fat lie and the guy took his time to educate you. He gave you the name, then you descended into the ridiculous by asking for "evidence".
The truth is, I don't know what it is with this latest trend of revisionism by which some ignorant people are trying to whitewash African religions like they are some pure, innocuous beliefs trampled upon by belligerent Europeans. Yoruba religions believed in human sacrifices to start with. They had Oro which discriminated heavily against women and strangers. The concept of abiku existed where dead bodies of babies were mutilated. These are just some of the evil practices which Christianity especially rid the traditional, superstitious African societies of. Yet, revisionists like you want to claim African religions are the best and genuine.

These Pentecostal churches pastors will attend white garment churches for years...then form a business centre and start condemning their sources...yet they sneak out at nights to visit the same white garment churches...thithes and prosperity churches...wiv Jets and security personnels...even Pastor Kumuyi invited Rev. Oshoffa to preach at his church!!!
He knows what's up!!!
All des ones no get brainz!!!

PhemmyTinny:
These Pentecostal churches pastors will attend white garment churches for years...then form a business centre and start condemning their sources...yet they sneak out at nights to visit the same white garment churches...thithes and prosperity churches...wiv Jets and security personnels...even Pastor Kumuyi invited Rev. Oshoffa to preach at his church!!!
He knows what's up!!!
All des ones no get brainz!!!

my dear no them them

FxMasterz:

Baba Adeboye didn't mention any church per say. He only warned against burning candles. David Ibiyhome didn't do well at all. He wasn't supposed to talk like that.

Yes, there are godly white garment churches but they're not well known.

Most of those white garment churches have demonic practices. Burning of candies is demonic. Coloured candles are used in occultism to conjure demons. Candles have no place in Christianity. They use brooms and bath in rivers like the Babalawos do. That's purely unscriptural. But ignorant people would keep defending what they know nothing about.

My brother you said my mind, I've witnessed that in Abuja

tollyboy5:

He went down and dipped himself in the Jordan River seven times, and he became pure and clean.


You're not the one to decide what churches can use or not. Cele bath in water as you can see it's also scriptural, i'm sure you dont even have explanation why it was seven times. You think things just happen.

Why don't you then apply the bathing as it is in the bible. All those who bathed in the bible went by themselves after receiving instructions from the prophet unlike in your case where the prophet goes with them to bath married and young women stark naked

Buddha3:
CC:

FxMasterz.
Otipoju.
Didijiji.

I have followed your exchange on this issue from the very first page to the last, with keen interest.

I am particularly thrilled and impressed with the meticulous rendition of respective views, mostly by Otipoju and FxMasterz. You both obviously committed the entire Sunday morning defending your faiths, without realising that you were educating members of the audience, like me.

Like Otipoju, I spent the first two decades of my life touring churches. Whether Orthodox, pentecostal, Anglican or what have you. I have equally had stints with the Celestial Church of Christ and the Cherubim & Seraphim sect. I have garnered religious knowledge beyond my needs. As a matter of speaking, my father is a Regional Pastor with Mountain of Fire and Miracles Ministries. He's spent over 15years behind the pulpit.

Your understanding and subsequent interpretations of the word of God cannot be invalidated. You're building your faiths around the tenets of the foundations you were propped with, while growing. But in the course of your argument, any discerning reader will notice that FxMasterz is closed-minded and stubbornly averse to swallowing other opinions, as has always been the case with modern day Pentecostal christians. While Otipoju is mostly concerned about defending his faith, trying to correct historical stereotypes, while attempting to clearly back up the doctrines of his denomination with the bible.

Truth of the matter is, modern day christianity is intolerant of other opinions or criticisms. Muslims prefer to use physical violence to press home their religious demands. Christians just put a moral burden on the world and demonise other religions. It's an easier path to conquests...and less bloody. But ultimately, it does more harm than what Islamism encourages.

If all religions purportedly serve the same purpose of leading souls to heaven, why is there always the discrimination and mud-slinging? I was a part of Eckankar for over 2years and I can proudly pronounce that religion as one of the most peaceful, tolerant and harmonious, as compared to the rest. I don't have an in-depth knowledge of the workings of the CCC, but I can confidently tell you that if all white garment churches and even Christian churches live like them, we'll have more relative peace than we have now. Christianity today is becoming toxic and I find it saddening that their adherents never bother to recognise that.

All of this bickering is the major reason I no longer go to church or any other worship centers. You religious extremists have decidedly made life quite uncomfortable for the rest of the world. Before all these foreign religions, our ancestors worshipped their gods in their huts, married many wives, reaped the bountiful proceeds from their farms and handworks, and they lived long enough to tell tales to their great-grand-children. Today, even with all your promises of el-dorado from pulpits and worship centers, the world is sad, there is hunger, people die early, then we have to tolerate the in-fighting between adherents of different fates.

It's very sad!

Hmm

I followed up their argument too. And I will complete this thread before I sleep tonight.

You've spoken well. And your stance and observation is similar to mine. Which forced me to comment to second you.

You are right on your observation about FxMasterz.

As you noted, I have as well explored so many churches and I have seen things. My mother is a founder of a C&S church, named - God Covenant Church of Christ, she is a person that made me understand what a true calling look like.

Your view on religion is just as right. After all my exploration, I just had to make a conclusion and decide how I want to keep my faith. One thing is certain, I believe there is a God and I believe Jesus Christ is the only pure person that ever walked this earth. So, I keep my faith personal, I regard myself as SBNR - Spiritual But Not Religious, and I look/study deeper into Humanity. I base all my views and reasoning on Humanity (or Humanism), it was what Jesus Christ life on earth emphasized on.

I told my mum, I could only be in a Church if I'm home to greet her. I would do my part and responsibility to help the church. But when I'm out there, I won't be in any church. I'd rather stay at home and give my prayers to God. And if I decided to settle down, if I meet somebody that share my mindset, fine. If not, the most important thing is that I preach Humanity to my kids, so they could be better human beings.

FxMasterz:


Smiling.

1. You said there are psalms Christians know nothing about.

2. You said there's a way to use psalms that would make them so powerful.

Tell us and explain what you mean, you're saying we should go and ask pastors.

This is hilarious.

I was explaining why your pastors are lamenting about evil psalms. They read psalms with spiritual understanding while Pentecostal may read psalm as bible story who knows.

Didijiji:
May God have mercy on you

There's nothing like God should have mercy on him...even I've witnessed some practices of the white garment churches it shocked me to the marrow i.e men bathing women in the river? Burning of coloured candles in the middle of the night? Throwing of fruits/foods/ foodstuffs in the river, there's a kind of occultic perfume that they use for special purpose (i forgot the name of the perfume) etc

PrinceDoctor:
Bro. FxMasterz, I've read your arguements on this issue. You've done an excellent work on the scriptural truths you've expounded. I can say that you're balanced in light.

I noticed that some people who are bent on twisting the truth came in, dragged you and turned the flow into fire me, I fire you. You held strong.

In presenting truth to those who think they are in light, we must be very strategic. They will come up with all sorts of claims to deviate focus from the main point. But we must keep the message loud & clear.

They have talked about Old Testament systems, saying that since they were practiced then, they must be practiced now. Ignorance at its peak! They don't know that God's operations are dispensational. Now, God operations are found only in Jesus Christ the Son. Not in Christ, not of God!

Tomorrow, I am writing an article, "Do you know Egypt more than Moses?" I've some nasty experiences with these guys & was even their "executor." I will mention you and others.

Remain in His love, brother.

Mention me too

Melagros:

There's nothing like God should have mercy on him...even I've witnessed some practices of the white garment churches it shocked me to the marrow i.e men bathing women in the river? Burning of coloured candles in the middle of the night? Throwing of fruits/foods/ foodstuffs in the river, there's a kind of occultic perfume that they use for special purpose (i forgot the name of the perfume) etc

I have not done these… my white garment doesn’t do it either

Westman001:


Hmm

I followed up their argument too. And I will complete this thread before I sleep tonight.

You've spoken well. And your stance and observation is similar to mine. Which forced me to comment to second you.

You are right on your observation about FxMasterz.

As you noted, I have as well explored so many churches and I have seen things. My mother is a founder of a C&S church, named - God Covenant Church of Christ, she is a person that made me understand what a true calling look like.

Your view on religion is just as right. After all my exploration, I just had to make a conclusion and decide how I want to keep my faith. One thing is certain, I believe there is a God and I believe Jesus Christ is the only pure person that ever walked this earth. So, I keep my faith personal, I regard myself as SBNR - Spiritual But Not Religious, and I look/study deeper into Humanity. I base all my views and reasoning on Humanity (or Humanism), it was what Jesus Christ life on earth emphasized on.

I told my mum, I could only be in a Church if I'm home to greet her. I would do my part and responsibility to help the church. But when I'm out there, I won't be in any church. I'd rather stay at home and give my prayers to God. And if I decided to settle down, if I meet somebody that share my mindset, fine. If not, the most important thing is that I preach Humanity to my kids, so they could be better human beings.

Here I am wishing there was a way I could like this your comment twice.

You lucidly spelt out my beliefs. After having spent years rummaging through churches and different religious faiths, I have come to understand that nothing beats "Humanism".

There's a fine sense of satisfaction and fulfilment to living a life that shows compassion and regard for the next person. You can build spirituality individually through your private relationship with your creator, but having the interests of other humans at heart, is the only religion that gives peace to the mind and soothes the soul.

To this day, I still have squabbles with my father over my unwillingness to return to the ways of the church. But where is the essence to sleeping in a church for three or four days in a week and going home to be mean and crude towards your next door neighbour? We as humans have just completely lost the essence of what religion was meant to be.

I relate with every single soul, irrespective of their religious inclinations. But I am not one to be influenced against my will or choices. So this entire drama of "going to hell because I don't go to church" amuses me, more often than not. To even think that FxMasterz of a nigga labelled me ignorant of the ways of God, made me laugh the more. I have read the bible from cover to cover. I have read the book of mormon from front to back. I am currently reading the Quran, just to have the knowledge of its contents. But one sanctimonious and grossly puritanical nairalander feels he knows way too much for me to have an opinion where he speaks.

Nigerians sha.. !!

Westman001:


Hmm

I followed up their argument too. And I will complete this thread before I sleep tonight.

You've spoken well. And your stance and observation is similar to mine. Which forced me to comment to second you.

You are right on your observation about FxMasterz.

As you noted, I have as well explored so many churches and I have seen things. My mother is a founder of a C&S church, named - God Covenant Church of Christ, she is a person that made me understand what a true calling look like.

Your view on religion is just as right. After all my exploration, I just had to make a conclusion and decide how I want to keep my faith. One thing is certain, I believe there is a God and I believe Jesus Christ is the only pure person that ever walked this earth. So, I keep my faith personal, I regard myself as SBNR - Spiritual But Not Religious, and I look/study deeper into Humanity. I base all my views and reasoning on Humanity (or Humanism), it was what Jesus Christ life on earth emphasized on.

I told my mum, I could only be in a Church if I'm home to greet her. I would do my part and responsibility to help the church. But when I'm out there, I won't be in any church. I'd rather stay at home and give my prayers to God. And if I decided to settle down, if I meet somebody that share my mindset, fine. If not, the most important thing is that I preach Humanity to my kids, so they could be better human beings.

Humanism will not take you to heaven. Humanism is belief that humans are innately good and can be good if treated good. It's been proven multiple times to be a lie, even from the scripture and life experiences.
Jesus Christ and faith and acceptance of his work of salvation is the way to heaven. If you don't believe and accept Jesus, no matter how good you are to people, you're not going to make heaven

FxMasterz:


Smiling.

1. You said there are psalms Christians know nothing about.

2. You said there's a way to use psalms that would make them so powerful.

Tell us and explain what you mean, you're saying we should go and ask pastors.

This is hilarious.

Do you even know there are whole chapters and verses in the book of Psalms that were expunged from the bible you use today, just so Christianity could maintain a certain level of sanity?

The problem is with Nigerians. Nigerians have put the Nigerian factor in side every facet of life including religion. We like to twist things. Yes J have my resentment towards white garment churches because many of what they do isn't doctrinal. Nigerians have added to the doctrine. That's why we are having issues here and there of them being accused of being occultic.

Buddha3:


Do you even know there are whole chapters and verses in the book of Psalms that were expunged from the bible you use today, just so Christianity could maintain a certain level of sanity?

Buddha3:


Do you even know there are whole chapters and verses in the book of Psalms that were expunged from the bible you use today, just so Christianity could maintain a certain level of sanity?

Now you're talking. That means you have some Psalms that are not in the Bible we're using today. Good to hear.

Interestingly, the Psalms are a part of old testament scriptures. The Jews also have their own copies. The Christian Old testament is as complete as the Jewish Old testament. So, if you have extra Psalms, they must have demonic sources.

Maysdevices:
Never take the Bible literally. I would like you to read with an open mind. I for one have never mocked the Celestial Church of Christ or any church who claims to worship Jesus because I know God reveals Himself to His people in different ways. It is a personal race to the core. I received the gift of tongues without the influence of any pastor and trust me when I say it is a gift from the Holy Spirit. However, not everyone would receive that gift or connect to God that way and it doesn’t make you any less Christian.

You are both Christian, stop letting the devil laugh by arguing amongst yourselves about who is right or wrong. Everyone goes to God for different reasons and through different methods and I have not seen one thing unbiblical in what the Celestial Church or Christ does. Not all Pentecostal worshippers are condemners, don’t let the devil use you to accuse your brother.

Be the bigger person. Onto my explanation.



The first mention of tongues in the New Testament is a statement by Jesus found in Mark 16:17:

“And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues.” (Mark 16:17 NIV)

All the major Bible translations translate this word as ‘new.’ Jesus did not say, “Those who follow me will speak in earthly languages that are unknown to them.” Instead, He said we would speak in ‘new’ languages.

Secondly, this argument about speaking known foreign languages most often stems from the account at Pentecost. However, to my knowledge, there is no verse in the Bible which says that the disciples spoke in earthly languages. Here is what the Bible actually says:

“When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.” (Acts 2:6 NIV)

“Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?” (Acts 2:8 NIV)

A careful reading of the account at Pentecost reveals that many people in the crowd were able to ‘hear’ in their own language. The Bible never says that the disciples were speaking in the languages of those people. And in fact, there is evidence to the contrary given in verse 13:

“Some, however, made fun of them and said, ‘They have had too much wine.’” (Acts 2:13 NIV)

Ask yourself this question: Why would anyone mock someone and accuse them of being drunk, just for speaking a foreign language? Does that make any sense at all?

I would like to humbly submit for your consideration the following scenario. The Holy Spirit fell on the disciples at Pentecost. They immediately began speaking in tongues, and the manifestation of that looked and sounded exactly the same as it does today. Some in the crowd were given a miraculous sign in that they were able to ‘hear’ in their own language.

However, others only heard what sounded to them like babble. Nonsense. Gibberish. Therefore, they responded by mocking the disciples, attacking their character, and making slanderous accusations against them.

Yet Peter patiently and lovingly explained to them that what they were witnessing was actually an outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

Some received his message, and others did not.

“Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.” (Acts 2:41 NIV)

Let’s move beyond Pentecost and see what else the Bible can reveal to us about this topic.

“For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 14:2 NIV)

This Scripture completely refutes the idea that tongues can only refer to the speaking of known, earthly languages. This says that “no one” understands the tongue speaker, and that they “utter mysteries.” If literally “no one” understands them, then they aren’t speaking an earthly language.


Paul clearly describes a private, devotional use of tongues:

“Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.” (1 Corinthians 14:4 NIV)

Is that passage talking about speaking in an identifiable earthly language so that other human beings will see a miraculous sign? No, it is not. Paul is clearly speaking about a spiritual gift that allows a person to communicate with God directly through the spirit, bypassing their own understanding, and building themselves up spiritually in the process:

“Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say ‘Amen’ to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.” (1 Corinthians 14:16-19 NIV)

Here, Paul refers to speaking in a tongue as “praising God in the Spirit” and even clearly states that when this happens, no one else knows what is being said. In fact, verse 5 of that same chapter makes clear that a second spiritual gift is required in order to know what is being spoken.

See let us not look for loop holes to back what we do, that we know may not be right.

In Biblical interpretation there is something called "Contextual Criticism".

Which simply means you factor the context that an event happened to better understand the meanings of that event.

On that day of Pentecost, not only Jews were gathered. There were a lot of foreigners there in Jerusalem.

After the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles and they received the gift of speaking in strange tounges, it was the Jews that did not understand the foreign languages that were making fun of them, until the various foreigners said that the seeming blabbing of the Apostles were actually making plenty of sense to them because they were there own native languages.

That is simply what happened.

The gift of speaking in tounges is the divine ability for a Christian when under the influence of the Holy spirit to begin to speak foreign languages that he did not learn as a child or as an adult.

When he is not in spirit, he can't speak those languages and when he is in Spirit, he may not even understand what he is saying himself because the language is equally strange to him unless he has the gift of interpretation.

One of the surest way to access the Spirit realm is prayer.Another sure way is music..especially music that praises God.

Now the world this guys live in, there was no internet and access to knowledge that we have now.

This modern era, nearly if not all languages known to man is known and can be translated.

You speak mysteries because it is not your head or mind talking, it is the Holy Spirit that has taken over and revealing deep truths, praying for you or others or praising himself through your mouth to decree things into existence.

I have observed well, i have not seen any Pentecostal pastor or associate interprete anything they say. I may be wrong but i strongly believe that they can't because it is man made cut and paste of orishirishi.

I can do skabosh and skaboosh perfectly if you give me microphone. That was the first thing they taught us on my first day at Household of God where Pastor Chris Okotie is the Pastor at Oregun in 1998.

Now if someone said there could be a angelic language not spoken my man, then I might listen and want to learn more.

Kukutenla:

Humanism will not take you to heaven. Humanism is belief that humans are innately good and can be good if treated good. It's been proven multiple times to be a lie, even from the scripture and life experiences.
Jesus Christ and faith and acceptance of his work of salvation is the way to heaven. If you don't believe and accept Jesus, no matter how good you are to people, you're not going to make heaven

I'm not sure you read my comment atal.

And who told you I'm pursuing heaven? I'm not leaving my life to pursue heaven. The point is to just leave right. Heaven or not, that one is on God to decide. Anyhow that would happen, I don't want to know. I don't think anyone knows. The Bible even said it that some would stay in front of God and lay claims or boosted how they do this and that in the church of God or whatever and He will said to them,,, I do not know you. Such claims could only come from somebody that have leave entirely or do things entirely so they could make heaven.

And lastly, you obviously do not understand or have full knowledge of what Humanity stands for.

Buddha3:


Here I am wishing there was a way I could like this your comment twice.

You lucidly spelt out my beliefs. After having spent years rummaging through churches and different religious faiths, I have come to understand that nothing beats "Humanism".

There's a fine sense of satisfaction and fulfilment to living a life that shows compassion and regard for the next person. You can build spirituality individually through your private relationship with your creator, but having the interests of other humans at heart, is the only religion that gives peace to the mind and soothes the soul.

To this day, I still have squabbles with my father over my unwillingness to return to the ways of the church. But where is the essence to sleeping in a church for three or four days in a week and going home to be mean and crude towards your next door neighbour? We as humans have just completely lost the essence of what religion was meant to be.

I relate with every single soul, irrespective of their religious inclinations. But I am not one to be influenced against my will or choices. So this entire drama of "going to hell because I don't go to church" amuses me, more often than not. To even think that FxMasterz of a nigga labelled me ignorant of the ways of God, made me laugh the more. I have read the bible from cover to cover. I have read the book of mormon from front to back. I am currently reading the Quran, just to have the knowledge of its contents. But one sanctimonious and grossly puritanical nairalander feels he knows way too much for me to have an opinion where he speaks.

Nigerians sha.. !!

Exactly! You said it well. It glad to know you have highly work on your mindset as me. And have control over what you believe in and not.

We as humans have just completely lost the essence of what religion was meant to be.

It would be great if people could focus more on humanity than religion.

chiefolododo:
Some white garment churches engage in things that do not glorify Jesus, we must admit that and separate the chaff from the wheat. The good white garment church is a prototype of the church of heaven. I like their songs,

Just Cherubim.

Others na glorified native doctors with bible.

FxMasterz:


I can see that you're already deep in white garment practices. You're probably a strong leader there. Nothing I tell you would move you because your belief in the things you do is deeply entrenched.

Now, let me answer your Questions.

1. The raised hands of Moses was what God intended to use at that point in time to bring victory to Israel. God wanted him in one way or the other to participate in that battle and make the Israelites know for certain that their swords was not responsible for their victory.

Psalm 44:3

For they got not the land in possession by their own sword, neither did their own arm save them: but thy right hand, and thine arm, and the light of thy countenance, because thou hadst a favour unto them."

The message was very clear. Moses also got to understand that he is not self-sufficient. Take note of the fact that it was just a one-time occurrence. It never happened again. They didn't make it a rule for regular war practice. It was simply a message and it remained so. Do not compare this event with regular practices of the white garment churches.

2. When Elisha told the king Jehoash to hit the ground with his arrows in 2kings 13, remember that in verse 16, the prophet put his hands on the king's hands. This is the important part of that passage because the prophet was about to give the king a prophetic prayer that he was not worthy of. The king like his father was not serving God but he wanted to benefit from God. Rather than issue him a word of prophesy for Victory, the prophet can only offer up prophetic prayers and he must use his own hands to decide his own fate. That's exactly what happened. Any victory the king got was not because he was worthy but because God decided to overlook his deeds and have respect to the prophet and his anointing. However, by striking the ground just 3 times, he sealed his own fate. This does not justify anything that white garment churches do.

3. Jesus spitting on the ground was as He was directed to do at that particular moment for that particular man. The man was born blind. Tradition has it that he did not even have eyes. As in there were no eyes in those sockets. It was all skin covering that part of his face. The miracle in that John 10 was a special miracle. Jesus was literally creating new eyes in order to give sight to that man. What He did there was as instructed by the Holy Spirit. Remember He said, "I can of my own self do nothing." The actions were just for that particular occasion. The disciples who took up the ministry after Christ didn't make anything of it. Their activities are fully recorded in the book of Acts. They never had to indulge in any of those things you guys do to cast out devils, heal the sick, make the lame to walk or even raise the dead. The church had existed for almost 2,000yrs before white garment churches came into being. Those practices of yours never existed in christiendom. What do you think you know better than the Apostles?

Jesus is our ultimate example, and the Bible is our guide. Do it the way they did it. You would have the same results they had. It's just as simple as that. Why burn candles or wash anyone's head in rivers? Are you herbalists?

4. The blood flow from the woman with the issue of blood was not responsible for drawing power from the Lord Jesus. It was her faith. Through her faith, power was released from the Lord for her healing, and Christ knew that power got out of Him. Her menstrual blood didn't defile Jesus or spoil His anointing. I'm aware that you guys have
certain restrictions for women during their mensural periods. Like a herbalist, you think a touch from them would spoil things. It was not so with Christ. He was glad the woman touched Him. He approved of the touch and said "daughter, be not afraid, your faith has made you whole." If mensuration does not constitute a pollution to the Apostles of Christ (Acts 15}, why should it matter to any part of the body of Christ? Except that part has another Lord which is not Jesus.

See, the Bible is plain and straight forward. Trying to use unrelated scriptures to justify weird practices does not bring you into any good standing before God.

Even Paul who brought the gospel to us gentiles said be ye my imitators as I am of Christ Jesus. 1Cor. 11;1-2 (Paraphrased).

Tell me who you're imitating with your strange practices because it's obviously not the Lord Jesus, neither Paul nor any othe Apostles of the Lamb.

God bless you for this
You really understand the word of God which is the pure truth!

otipoju:


You are extremely ignorant.

A. Israel was at war and as long as Moses hands were raised up...the battle would be in their favor, when his hands came down they would start loosing. So to they hand men hold his hands up until they utterly defeated their enemies.

Question: what is the correlation between raining or lowering of a mans hands with winning a battle.

B. The prophet told the king to hit the ground with his stick. The King hit it lightly just 3 times. The prophet admonished him saying had he hit the ground hard like 5 to 7 times, his enemies would have been defeated completely.

What is the correlation between physically hitting a stick on the ground at all with defeating ones enemies in a war.

C. Jesus spat on the ground, made a paste of mud and rubbed it on a blind man's eyes and told him to go wash. The man did as Jesus commanded and his eyes became opened.


Question: what has spit and mud and washing off with water got to do with a opening of a blind eye...especially if Jesus could simply command the eyes to be opened like he told Lazurus to come forth from the tomb or "speak the word " while in a different city and Jarius the Roman's daughter to be restored.

D. What is so powerful about a females menstrual blood that it could drain so much power from Jesus that he noticed immediately even though the large crowd was swirling around him and touching him.


If you can explain these then we might have a conversation about Christianity and faith...until then sit down and keep quiet.

The problem with you Pentecostal novices is that you think you know it all...whereas you and your so called "man made gods " know next to nothing about Spirituality.

What anointing do I need to fall under if your prayer is to God. Leave all that nonsense gimmicks to one side.

You guys blab unintelligible nonsense under the guise of speaking in tounges.

...whereas the real speaking in tounges is to speak in foreign language that its native speakers can understand...but the person speaking did not learn and may not even understand the language.

Is that not what happened on the day of Pentecost as described in the Acts of the Apostles? So where did you guys get your shekerebo booo madraka sunda from ?

Go and sit down somewhere and stop deceiving yourself.

well said

Tripitaka:


Bro, I also detest white garment churches.

But I just admit, you are a worthy ambassador. Articulate and well thought rebuttals. The way you lay out your points is admirable.

As a child of God, we shouldn't hate any one. I spent hours yesterday, learning and unlearning from this two guys. One thing that made this guy stood out was his ability to back up all his positions with the scriptures. I doff my hat for you @otipoju. It shows how deep you are in the knowledge of the scriptures.

Didijiji:
You said demonic Psalms.

I just hope it is not the psalm chapters in the Bible?

Because I don’t know how a demonic verse can reside in the word of God

go and read Psalm 35... The entire psalm.

Softhands:
go and read Psalm 35... The entire psalm.

well read

What about it?

Westman001:


Hmm

I followed up their argument too. And I will complete this thread before I sleep tonight.

You've spoken well. And your stance and observation is similar to mine. Which forced me to comment to second you.

You are right on your observation about FxMasterz.

As you noted, I have as well explored so many churches and I have seen things. My mother is a founder of a C&S church, named - God Covenant Church of Christ, she is a person that made me understand what a true calling look like.

Your view on religion is just as right. After all my exploration, I just had to make a conclusion and decide how I want to keep my faith. One thing is certain, I believe there is a God and I believe Jesus Christ is the only pure person that ever walked this earth. So, I keep my faith personal, I regard myself as SBNR - Spiritual But Not Religious, and I look/study deeper into Humanity. I base all my views and reasoning on Humanity (or Humanism), it was what Jesus Christ life on earth emphasized on.

I told my mum, I could only be in a Church if I'm home to greet her. I would do my part and responsibility to help the church. But when I'm out there, I won't be in any church. I'd rather stay at home and give my prayers to God. And if I decided to settle down, if I meet somebody that share my mindset, fine. If not, the most important thing is that I preach Humanity to my kids, so they could be better human beings.

This view of yours is all good except for one little thing, practicing humanity is very wise because there is no book of God where you are told to only worship God without treating other people right,

it will be an exercise in futility sleeping in the church or mosque but hating on everyone and never helping humanity. That's your own contribution to the world, to humanity but what will you get in return, that you are considerate and fair to everyone doesn't mean they will reciprocate same to you, and there is a lot going on in the spiritual that even you don't know about yourself,

if you don't go to church or mosque and believe in God while doing good to people you might even be the target of the devil because you have amassed all these goodness from sowing good seeds in other people's life but you have no one to protect you and the seeds,

Going to church or mosque gives you spiritual backings because the presence and the power of God is easily available in the house of God if you go to the right place, there are many challenges that might be coming your way which you will get help to overcome it if you belong to a house of God,

Do you know that all this LGBTQ thing is as a result of ignoring the presence of God? If you refuse to participate in the house of God no matter all your good intentions corruption can set in, even all these sexual crimes like paedophilia, incest, rape are as a result of not having the spirit of God not to talk of other vices, I know all these because I did not know God nor worship Him until my adulthood, and as soon as I got born again I instantly lost appetite for lust and sexual sins and even now as a new Muslim the feeling of keeping myself pure has intensify,

Apart from all these, the Glory that God has given you which is like intangible money can attract the evil powers if you don't have a personal walk with God by paying attention to Him, the Bible says we should not abandon the assembly of believers, Islam says it is 25times more powerful to pray in the mosque than pray at home, I have confirmed this several times because matter what I'm going through it disappears when I attend the mosque regularly.

Everyone is bound to experience life challenges along the line and it is what you have invested in that will be there for you, the whites actually walk in love because their skin color repel the devil because it's almost white but because they ignore God they are having all these corruption, love of others is not enough but love of God shown by paying attention to the things of God.

Having said that, I understand getting the genuine place of worship where God actually operates is very tricky especially in Nigeria, many churches are just devil's house and some mosques have introduce another thing to Islam which reduce the power of God there, that's why you should pray about that, to know the right place for you and if a Muslim just ignore any sect that is being criticize a lot for their mode of worship and all those imam practicing herbalist and you will be fine.

Things might be going fine for you now because you are young but life is long and a lot is still ahead of you, you need a higher power to help you navigate this life and places of worship is the store house of Gods power, it's an issue of specialisation, contacting heaven is the only thing being done there so joining them gives you a piece of the power of God to live above the devil and it's agents, but beware of many churches in Nigeria, the only church I can vouch for is RCCG because I prayed and received it . I became a Muslim because the evil church I was attending before I joined RCCG was manifesting against me even in RCCG anytime the choir minister the same song, I will start seeing the evil church with all their afflictions, I had to pray hard before I was led into Islam. I'm sure there are other good churches but I know there are many evil ones. I hope you do the right thing.

Another experience I have is that of my mother, she also lived a life of I don't need to go to church or mosque since I love God and I don't do evil of any type, she and my father did not introduce us children to God, we grew up not going to church or mosque, the enemy dealt with us the children badly, we found God ourselves at adulthood and my mother now attends church and she has seen the difference

Cc:Buddha3

PrinceDoctor:
Bro. FxMasterz, I've read your arguements on this issue. You've done an excellent work on the scriptural truths you've expounded. I can say that you're balanced in light.

I noticed that some people who are bent on twisting the truth came in, dragged you and turned the flow into fire me, I fire you. You held strong.

In presenting truth to those who think they are in light, we must be very strategic. They will come up with all sorts of claims to deviate focus from the main point. But we must keep the message loud & clear.

They have talked about Old Testament systems, saying that since they were practiced then, they must be practiced now. Ignorance at its peak! They don't know that God's operations are dispensational. Now, God operations are found only in Jesus Christ the Son. Not in Christ, not of God!

Tomorrow, I am writing an article, "Do you know Egypt more than Moses?" I've some nasty experiences with these guys & was even their "executor." I will mention you and others.

Remain in His love, brother.

Mention me bro!

FxMasterz:


Now you're talking. That means you have some Psalms that are not in the Bible we're using today. Good to hear.

Interestingly, the Psalms are a part of old testament scriptures. The Jews also have their own copies. The Christian Old testament is as complete as the Jewish Old testament. So, if you have extra Psalms, they must have demonic sources.

Actually, the Psalms are Jewish too but were expunged because of their content. They do not follow the same pattern and theme of the regular known Psalms which made their origins doubtful. Let's not forget even Jews at one point copied pagans especially when they deviated from God's laws

Three Practices of White Garment Churches You Should Run Away From.

If there is a country that is very religious, it's Nigeria. A country that has a lot of churches abounding in almost every street and corners in certain cities, yet it seems the situation of the country gets more challenging.

Amidst all these are white garment churches. These churches are distributed around the world. It's origins can be traced to Benin republic when the founder migrated from the same. And in actual truth he never initiated these practices, but several persons who joined him along the way brought some ideology or the other.

If you look at a church like winners, or RCCG , there is a central command. Such that what you see done at location A is done at location B and it's the same every where.

And if a Church does not have a central head that is recognised, reverred and serves as a chain of command , that should really sound an alarm to you.

There are some practices in these churches that you really should be wary of. So what are they?

1. Bathing in the River

Jesus baptised people only once and there was a reason. He never used it as a practice. Any practice that engages the mostly the practices of the old testament should be avoided. The blind man he asked to go the River to bathe was a prophetic instruction. While the problem seems to be solved by bathing in a river, this really is temporary. Just two weeks later, you will amount in greater problems and issues. Bathing in the River exposes you to more forces than you bargained for.

2. Using their Prayer Soap

Religion in Nigeria has done more harm than good. If you ignore certain principles, you can never have those enviable results that you seek. Bathing in the River and using the prayer soap is one and the same. You end up washing your glory and your goodness away. Do not be deceived. Pray to God by using certain Psalms like Ps. 23, 46, 83, 121 and 1. Pray this prayers between 12am and 3am and see God doing wonders in your life.

If men can pray, God will answer.

3. Celebration Rites

If there is something I know about these guys, it's that they can find reasons and excuses to eat in the name of one celebration or the other. Guys this is where you should be careful. A church that always does this should ring an alarm in your head. These foods are prepared by people who looking for means to spread their misfortunes around , or doing a prayer of more years to add to their life or simply collecting people's glory for their selves. Then you innocently eat the same. Bros or Sis be careful! I have attended their services for a long time and that's how I know these things. I have served with them for a while so I know what I am talking about. Do not let yourself become caught out with them.

I am not saying white garment churches are all bad. There are some of them that do none of these things and are quite effective.

A church that does any of these should be a suspect to you. Some of these churches do not even wear white garments yet they do this. Every church should have an head. And every church should have an identity that is synonymous to them. A church is known by the fruit of the spirit it represents. Winners is known for Faith, RCCG is known for humility, and many more. Once a Church does not represent at least a fruit of the spirit then what happens there is not about Christ but something else.

white garment churches produce the highest number of hookup babes, ashawo and yahoo boys! Quote me anywhere