Just look at your analogy. Someone with portfolio worth 90 million will now be applying for 9 million naira loan to buy stocks? Who does that, it is foolishness and greed. Pennywise pounds foolish such an investor.

emmanuelewumi:
Assuming you have 1 million units of BUA cement valued at over N90 million, but generated a dividend of less than N3 million in 2023. The maximum loan I can take against the Investment based on the previous dividend paid is N9 million.

Whereas another investor with 2.4million units of Zenith Bank shares valued at about N90 million, but generated a dividend of about N7.5 million in 2023. The maximum loan I can take against the Investment based on the previous dividend paid is N22 million.


Same portfolio size but different loan amount, based on the Investment income generated by both portfolios.

I think this is conservative enough.


If you have a business or other streams of income apart from the Investment income generated by the portfolio, some highly motivated invested investor can decide to take 5 times and above of the Investment income as loan.

The problem is the main source of income from our portfolio for most of us is through the capital appreciation of our portfolio. People in this category should avoid taking loans for investment purposes

Princkez:
any news on TRANSCORP?

I’m also scouring the net for any potential fundamentals fueling the bull. Been on the ride since 0.91 and i have quite a chunk of stake in it

phadriz:
Just look at your analogy. Someone with portfolio worth 90 million will now be applying for 9 million naira loan to buy stocks? Who does that, it is foolishness and greed. Pennywise pounds foolish such an investor.

Dude you need to relax!!!!!!

If you understand basic maths and risk strategy he has been trying to school you on, you won’t be yapping on about something you have no clue about

Just let it go already wouldya?

The finance house is still alive and is using one of the most expensive building a stockbroker can have in heart of Ikoyi. Even if it is dead, it is part of business cycle, you may need to dust textbooks on business management to update yourself on that. I never brag here, but it is an insult to call someone poor man in a faceless platform. I have all the necessary certifications and experience both local and international to back my assertions in finance and accounting.

Please don't push people to desperation that will make them curse you in the future. Do you think it makes sense for one use all personal savings to buy shares not to talk of taking loan?

Streetinvestor2:
It is obvious you are one of those wrong guys people meet in so call finance professionals. Who is taking about beating the mkt or guarantee. I only pointed out that the guy understands how to invest using loans and has done it several with positive results. He is not a novice in it.I beg to say he is an authority in this field.
I hope from how you are sounding the finance company has not closed shop.He does not invest based on hope as you mentioned oando. And he only takes calculated risk.
You will be alright last last after showing off.The people who have what it takes don't make noise on this forum.

They have released you from the WhatsApp group as well abi. You fake guys fronting for Stockbrokers to push people on stocks and loan. It won't work.

jaybee3:


Dude you need to relax!!!!!!

If you understand basic maths and risk strategy he has been trying to school you on, you won’t be yapping on about something you have no clue about

Just let it go already wouldya?

phadriz:
Just look at your analogy. Someone with portfolio worth 90 million will now be applying for 9 million naira loan to buy stocks? Who does that, it is foolishness and greed. Pennywise pounds foolish such an investor.

I get the feeling you're taking a defensive stance here, lashing out without fully considering what's being said.

The post you quoted was simply an example to illustrate the point that loan decisions should be based on current and, in some cases, projected cash flows, not on anticipated appreciation.

Let's relax, brother.

Nobody's doubting your abilities. We're all here to learn and grow together.

phadriz:
Why do you guys find it difficult to post without insult or brag? You are sounding too confident as if you have never burn your fingers in the market. I can tell you categorically nobody can beat the market 100% even the great Femi Ote$ burnt his fingers in the past. There is nothing like guarantee in this market. I have been trading since age 17, I was once head of finance of a stockbroking firm for 5 years, so don't think you are talking to a novice. My point remains that people should trade with caution and not get carried away with bullish trend.

who has time to brag with you.i only told you he is not a novice when it comes to investing via loan.He doesn't invest base on hope as you mentioned oando. He takes calculated risk.I hope the finance company has not closed shop.I see your type every time you meet this so called professionals in investment companies,lol
Pls help in which stock pick did ote burn his finger.
I don't have idea because the ones I know he made a killing in all
And pls don't go the way of insult with me because I don't know how to play cool oh

phadriz:
Just look at your analogy. Someone with portfolio worth 90 million will now be applying for 9 million naira loan to buy stocks? Who does that, it is foolishness and greed. Pennywise pounds foolish such an investor.

Someone with a property worth N90 million getting a rental income of N4 million per annum. He got a loan of N9 million to buy a cheap land that he will pay back in 3 years or less.


Will you advice him to sell his property in order to buy the land because he doesn't want to be foolish.

Second quarter of the year, I borrowed against my Eurobond Fund investment with United Capital when Naira to dollar was less than N900 by the way it is now over N1200 to a dollar.


Bought more of Dangote Sugar at average price of less than N25.

The Eurobond Fund Investment is up, the target Investment is up. I have paid down 80% of the fund using Investment income.


It is very possible to always eat your cake and have it.


By the way Ololo of Falcon Securities was used by the former CEOs of some failed banks to perform miracle on their stock


If the Investment income from the portfolio does not make sense, one needs to be careful.

What is the Investment income from Omatek, Oando and some stocks, that does not mean some gamblers can't make money from them, it is better to create a sustainable system that will continue to generate investment income, before thinking of borrowing against future income that will be produced by the portfolio

phadriz:
They have released you from the WhatsApp group as well abi. You fake guys fronting for Stockbrokers to push people on stocks and loan. It won't work.

Lol!!!!

Oya it don do naaaaaa

Access after selling you at 17.30 na him you do me strong thing.Then I can't believe how my #1.00 has turned to #23 in ucap.Alhaji u must pay back the opportunity sacrificed in Access.
I still dey buy my alhaji in small afolabi units as I rebalance portfolio.
My bank stock for next yr na jaiz Bank for 100% since alhaji na shareholder.

ositadima1:


I get the feeling you're taking a defensive stance here, lashing out without fully considering what's being said.

The post you quoted was simply an example to illustrate the point that loan decisions should be based on current and, in some cases, projected cash flows, not on anticipated appreciation.

Let's relax, brother.

Nobody's doubting your abilities. We're all here to learn and grow together.

Is it past the lashing ur mom was collecting last Nite in z oza room??
See how dem various monikas for same pesin dey come defend am as if say hin papa hin b wey born am.
Phadz talked sense to say taking loan for stocks na red flag. 100% correct.
No matter how much diff monikas gon B used to abuse am na free mind like me to come defend am and insult the person behind those monikas.
No one take loan con buy stocks.
Who B d one to say take loan come buy omatek no B loco or na Peter or Emma na one n d same. Who d come tell someone go take loan go buy ellah lakes …omo Dats when I left dis room but today na I see u ppl insult phadiz who talk sense I say make I just enter and tell am say u don cast.

Real Estate is different from paper investments, ask yourself why do bank accept real estate and reject stocks as loan collateral? You are not sure of exact amount of dividend because you can not influence decision of the company, but you know that your rental income is guaranteed. I repeat taking loan for for buying stocks is a stupid decision and people should not fall for it here.

emmanuelewumi:



Someone with a property worth N90 million getting a rental income of N4 million per annum. He got a loan of N9 million to buy a cheap land that he will pay back in 3 years or less.


Will you advice him to sell his property in order to buy the land because he doesn't want to be foolish.

Second quarter of the year, I borrowed against my Eurobond Fund investment with United Capital when Naira to dollar was less than N900 by the way it is now over N1200 to a dollar.


Bought more of Dangote Sugar at average price of less than N25.

The Eurobond Fund Investment is up, the target Investment is up. I have paid down 80% of the fund using Investment income.


It is very possible to always eat your cake and have it.


By the way Ololo of Falcon Securities was used by the former CEOs of some failed banks to perform miracle on their stock


If the Investment income from the portfolio does not make sense, one needs to be careful.

What is the Investment income from Omatek, Oando and some stocks, that does not mean some gamblers can't make money from them, it is better to create a sustainable system that will continue to generate investment income, before thinking of borrowing against future income that will be produced by the portfolio

phadriz:
Veteran?
That is where you guys always miss it, you think he don't burn is fingers as well? People keep their failures secret and disclose their successes. Is your veteran once a council member of the Exchange or SEC? Please read about Ololo and see what loan to buy stock did to him. Ask yourself why banks don't take shares as collateral for loan again after 2008 crisis. I know so many big brokers that made billions in the market, but also burnt their fingers later.

It appears u have a challenge understanding English language. Does veteran mean one is perfect? It simply means LONG EXPERIENCE

Hmmmmm

[quote author=sboga post=1275



Is it past the lashing ur mom was collecting last Nite in z oza room??
See how dem various monikas for same pesin dey come defend am as if say hin papa hin b wey born am.
Phadz talked sense to say taking loan for stocks na red flag. 100% correct.
No matter how much diff monikas gon B used to abuse am na free mind like me to come defend am and insult the person behind those monikas.
No one take loan con buy stocks.
Who B d one to say take loan come buy omatek no B loco or na Peter or Emma na one n d same. Who d come tell someone go take loan go buy ellah lakes …omo Dats when I left dis room but today na I see u ppl insult phadiz who talk sense I say make I just enter and tell am say u don cast.[/quote]

I'm not bragging as well, I just give my kobo advise. On Femi Ote$ finger burnt. In 2006 African Petroleum (AP) was trading 300 - 320 per share, 11 years after how much did he sell FO to Adrova Plc. That is an example of finger burning. Even Elemelu self don chop his fingers in the past. Elon Musk self dey chop. No body can always beat the market, forget all these paper analysis you guys do. A smart investor focus on trading with objective of capital appreciation and not dividend.

Streetinvestor2:
who has time to brag with you.i only told you he is not a novice when it comes to investing via loan.He doesn't invest base on hope as you mentioned oando. He takes calculated risk.I hope the finance company has not closed shop.I see your type every time you meet this so called professionals in investment companies,lol
Pls help in which stock pick did ote burn his finger.
I don't have idea because the ones I know he made a killing in all
And pls don't go the way of insult with me because I don't know how to play cool oh

Comprehension is your problem as well. I said veteran are also vulnerable to mistakes. Nobody knows it all

vacanci:


It appears u have a challenge understanding English language. Does veteran mean one is perfect? It simply means LONG EXPERIENCE

phadriz:
Comprehension is your problem as well. I said veteran are also vulnerable to mistakes. Nobody knows it all

if i receive mentorship from your type, i will remain stagnant for a long time.

I will choose to jump and pass any post from you to help my investment journey. i no want derailment.

Good bye

phadriz:
Real Estate is different from paper investments, ask yourself why do bank accept real estate and reject stocks as loan collateral? You are not sure of exact amount of dividend because you can not influence decision of the company, but you know that your rental income is guaranteed. I repeat taking loan for for buying stocks is a stupid decision and people should not fall for it here.

It appears it is a very looooong time you got an Asset Backed loan from a bank


Banks prefer Financial Assets as collateral especially Fixed Income investments and Blue chip stocks compared to Real Estate

Three people can present certificate of occupancy for the same property. Financial Assets in your CSCS are preferably and authentic.


It appears you lost so much between 2006 and 2008 and you have vowed not to come back to the stock market, but for the current upward movement in the market.


Take your investments, be it real estate, stock, business, mutual fund, bonds as a predictable income generating machine. The income can be dividends, rents, interest, coupons. Then no big deal borrowing against the future income of the asset or Investment.

phadriz:

The fact that it works for you doesn't mean it is the best, some people may just jump at loan because of little rally on a stock, hence my reason for caution. The other time someone was lamenting that he converted all his money to $ and the exchange rate fall. The Zenith example you cited was during Covid-19 when the market was down which is good example to encourage people to take loan for shares, I also cited an opposite situation for people to be cautious. If you kill greed in investment you will never regret any investment decision, you build wealth, you don't acquire it overnight, unnecessary aggressiveness always lead to tears.

Nigeria Brewery in the past used to be one the best performing stocks on dividend and price appreciation with good fundamentals, what happen sometimes ago? Imagine if one take loan to buy FBN and Femi Ote$ decided to exit today, what do you think will happen? Those that bought Intercontinental and PHB in the past did due diligence as well.

You can state your opinion on issues here and move on.
I actually share some of your sentiment on this topical issue as I personally don't see reasons why any one will advise people to go and take loan to buy shares.
Those that will get their fingers burnt are more than the ones that will be successful.

phadriz:
I'm not bragging as well, I just give my kobo advise. On Femi Ote$ finger burnt. In 2006 African Petroleum (AP) was trading 300 - 320 per share, 11 years after how much did he sell FO to Adrova Plc. That is an example of finger burning. Even Elemelu self don chop his fingers in the past. Elon Musk self dey chop. No body can always beat the market, forget all these paper analysis you guys do. A smart investor focus on trading with objective of capital appreciation and not dividend.

If you are a trader with sole focus on capital appreciation in order to make money from market, please don't take leverage.


If you are an investor with a focus on sustainable and growing investment income, you can get a loan.
It will be a self liquidating loan, the Investment income and other income from other sources will liquid the loan over a period of 3 years or less, if capital appreciation comes that is fine but it is secondary and not the primary focus

emmanuelewumi:



If you are a trader with sole focus on capital appreciation in order to make money from market, please don't take leverage.


If you are an investor with a focus on sustainable and growing investment income, you can get a loan.
It will be a self liquidating loan, the Investment income and other income from other sources will liquid the loan over a period of 3 years or less, if capital appreciation comes that is fine but it is secondary and not the primary focus

See dis mothalover still Dey advice ppl to collect loan to buy stocks.
Which kain veteran u b na.
Don forget 2008 when everyone took loan come buy uba oceanic phb zenith skye
D whole ting don Dabba cause of loan trading.
U don forget abi!?!!
Na veteran dem Dey call u for dis place. How much dey pay dem?
2008 d full crash was aggravated by d same ppl dat took loans to buy stocks and it was even banned but under current regime we want to enter d same 1 chance again before it go daba.

U no B a veteran guy

Na clown u B o just trying to confuse yung mindz.

Phadz don call u out

In reality hin don slap your yansh two times

Phat
Phat….u Dey shout ayeeeeeeeeeeeee bring separate monikar defend am

Veteran ke?

Na virus u b

The All Share Index will definitely close for the year at about 75,000 as predicted.

The former All Time High of the ASI was 66,000 attained in 2006.

emmanuelewumi:
The All Share Index will definitely close for the year at about 75,000 as predicted.

The former All Time High of the ASI was 66,000 attained in 2006.

See am quoting 2006 as if himself was around …anyone fit check dat out and make predictions.

Hin wan prove na veteran hin b

Should we be looking at another 20% gain in 2024, which will push the All Share Index to about 90,000.


It is very possible, our stocks are still cheap, with the current inflation and currency devaluation. Naia denominated assets will be repriced going forward

A 36yr old with rental income of 2m annually, monthly salary of between 900-1m after tax. $50k(total portfolio valuation) in crypto and $20k in dollar mutual fund, over 20m in paper profit from ngx shares but pays rent.

If this were you, would liquidate any of this asset class to purchase a home or continue to grow your networth

debeey87:
A 36yr old with rental income of 2m annually, monthly salary of between 900-1m after tax. $50k(total portfolio valuation) in crypto and $20k in dollar mutual fund, over 20m in paper profit from ngx shares but pays rent.

If this were you, would liquidate any of this asset class to purchase a home or continue to grow your networth

I believe rent should not be a big deal if you have Investment income that is over 300% of rent expenses.


Value of the assets quoted above are opinions and can be lousy, cash flow is a fact.


What is the average Investment income generated by his cypto, Mutual Fund, shares on NGX and property?? Then what is his rent expenses per annum

I can smell maturity in @emmanuelewumi

emmanuelewumi:
Should we be looking at another 20% gain in 2024, which will push the All Share Index to about 90,000.


It is very possible, our stocks are still cheap, with the current inflation and currency devaluation. Naia denominated assets will be repriced going forward

There are many equities that their prices have not enjoyed the relative bull experienced from Jun to date. Some of them are large cap. The expected consolidation of Dangote Sugar and NASCON and the possible listing of Dangote Refineries are expected to make positive impact on the ASI. I am also confident that many foreign investors will be buying over some of the badly managed companies and make them subsidiaries for their foreign conglomerates.

My outlook for 2024, both economic and equity wise, is bullish.

[quote author=emmanuelewumi post=127578236]




I believe rent should not be a big deal if you have Investment income that is over 300% of rent expenses. This is well taken care of from his salary.


Value of the assets quoted above are an opinion and can be lousy, cash flow is a fact.

In my personal opinion, his cash flow is more from salary and dividends from shares. Those are guaranteed. Total cost of his shares is about 18m. Rent can be unpredictable but if his tenants pay as they should, 2m is guaranteed


What is the average Investment income generated by his
cypto - not sure, but over 4yrs he has made at least $30k in profit.
Mutual Fund - $2000
shares on NGX - 2-3m in dividends annually and
property - 2m minimum
Then what is his rent expenses per annum - less than 900k

Pls do u know any stockbroker in Warri Delta state?

[quote author=debeey87 post=127578688][/quote]





The koko is passive income or Investment income that is more than 300% of his rent.




Anything can happen to salary.


Since his passive income or investment income is about N6 million and his rent is about N1 million.


I don't think he should rush to build a house.

He will spend about N20 million or more to buy an apartment just to avoid paying a rent of N1 million per annum,

emmanuelewumi:






The koko is passive income or Investment income that is more than 300% of his rent.




Anything can happen to salary this is true. I remember how colleagues lost their jobs between 2015-2016. It came as a ride shock to everyone.


Since his passive income or investment income is about N6 million and his rent is about N1 million.


I don't think he should rush to build a house.

He will spend about N20 million or more to buy an apartment just to avoid paying a rent of N1 million per annum,

Your opinion will be passed on. Thank you