Zahra29:


That's certainly not the case anywhere I've seen or heard in the UK, but you're entitled to think what you think.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13334435/amp/Number-cancer-patients-waiting-cancer-treatment.html

Google is your friend, my good friend 😊

I agree with you.
In my family, we recently got opportunity to relocate to both Canada and Australia with all expenses paid.
We declined the offers after considering the cons and pros. We realised that the move will not necessarily make our lives better. In fact, one of them would even make us financially worse off.

This is not to say that it won't be a better move for another family. It is on a case-by-case basis.

Zahra29:


Or perhaps some people are happy where "life has put them" and not running from place to place in search of some utopia, only to start another round of complaints when they get there lol

Look, I'm not trying to convince anyone not to move to the US. I was only defending the NHS, same with some other posters. It's not perfect as I've said numerous times, but it's very good.

I'm very happy for anyone who chooses to go seeking a better life or healthcare in the US or Canada or Nigeria or wherever.

That is serious.
All these long waiting period started since Covid.

kwakudtraveller:

Treatments as well. Look at this 2024 article.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-68435770.amp

Jamesclooney:



Thank you for your understanding and empathetic comment. Left to others, we should wait hours on end without saying pim, even though it’s a huge culture shock for us (similar to paying for ambulance service in the USA). Funny enough, after the review/triage, I was admitted and referred. And the situation was “so serious” the doctors refused me going home without signing waivers. Then an emergency surgery was scheduled. That’s to say, my case wasn’t minor as some are inferring with sprained ankle etc. It was a serious and urgent medical situation.So many horror stories abound, I guess I should count myself lucky.

To those comparing with Nigerian healthcare, two truths can co-exist. I personally know people who’ve grown tired of waiting for the NHS and found alternatives, either private care or abroad, from dental care to fertility treatments. If that’s not a failing system, I don’t know what is.

And yes, there’s a lot of waste and inefficiency in the process. So many people running around, pushing paper, wasting time. The system is currently failing a lot of people, and as some immigrants are now discovering…all that glitters is not gold. The NHS isn’t the el dorado some people think it is. Same way the Nigerian healthcare system is not reduced to Mikano generator breaking down during surgery or 3rd highest maternal death etc.

Immediately I saw your post, I knew it was based on a bad personal experience. I hope that gentleman who said your case was probably not serious backtracks.

I actually feel like I had better healthcare in Nigeria. I felt pampered and I was treated better with my private health insurance. Here even with private health insurance, the doctors are sometimes dismissive. I conduct tests, they call and rush through the results and they prescribe drugs without sharing information as to where I should pick them up. So many issues that I’ve learned to just live with.

I’m learning to just exist with my health issues and when I visit Lagos, I’ll do a thorough health check.

kwakudtraveller:

It’s a good thing that you rounded up your statement by saying that this is as a result of hearsay of people dropping dead unexpectedly which definitely comes from fear and not just because they want to abuse the system because they paid their IHS fees. In the same vein, many people who actually paid for their IHS are not even registered with GPs as they believe that they do not need to. Let’s educate people and sometimes empathise instead of looking for an avenue to always call out migrants for one reason or another.

I did educate them that that's not how the NHS/IHS works and people typically have such tests done privately. Not everything is a call out.

I just looked at this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68240096
The number of people being attended to within the acceptable 62 days waitin time has kind of remained constant over the years. However, more people are being diagnosed.
It just shows that NHS has its maximum capacity. As population is increasing, more needs to be done to handle more people. This current NHS is not designed to handle huge population.

kwakudtraveller:

Treatments as well. Look at this 2024 article.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-68435770.amp

dupyshoo:
I agree with you.
In my family, we recently got opportunity to relocate to both Canada and Australia with all expenses paid.
We declined the offers after considering the cons and pros. We realised that the move will not necessarily make our lives better. In fact, one of them would even make us financially worse off.

This is not to say that it won't be a better move for another family. It is on a case-by-case basis.

Exactly, which is why I keep saying to each their own.

Some people will experience better healthcare/life in Nigeria or the US, and some people have experienced and will experience great healthcare in the UK both on the NHS or privately.

Do what works for you. It's the constant complaining and comparing that irks me. No one is saying the NHS is perfect - far from it- but to say it has completely failed is ridiculous.

If people think they are better off in the US or that Nigeria's healthcare is the new Eldorado, then bon voyage. Why stay back and constantly complain?

Rant over 😊

Zahra29:


I did educate them that that's not how the NHS/IHS works and people typically have such tests done privately. Not everything is a call out.

But that’s what you did, a call out! The IHS bit was unnecessary and note that this is me just checking your bias. It’s not a personal attack.

kwakudtraveller:

Immediately I saw your post, I knew it was based on a bad personal experience. I hope that gentleman who said your case was probably not serious backtracks.

I actually feel like I had better healthcare in Nigeria. I felt pampered and I was treated better with my private health insurance. Here even with private health insurance, the doctors are sometimes dismissive. I conduct tests, they call and rush through the results and they prescribe drugs without sharing information as to where I should pick them up. So many issues that I’ve learned to just live with.

I’m learning to just exist with my health issues and when I visit Lagos, I’ll do a thorough health check.

God bless you sir and preserve our lives 🙏🏾 At least, I know I’m not running mad. Let’s not even discuss maternity care and the damning report that came out yesterday. It is well. God will keep us all.

dupyshoo:
I agree with you.
In my family, we recently got opportunity to relocate to both Canada and Australia with all expenses paid.
We declined the offers after considering the cons and pros. We realised that the move will not necessarily make our lives better. In fact, one of them would even make us financially worse off.

This is not to say that it won't be a better move for another family. It is on a case-by-case basis.

This here sums it up.

That's why you will see people from Benin city, go to school in UNILAG. You will then think it's because UNILAG is better until you see people from Lagos going to UNIBEN.

kwakudtraveller:

But that’s what you did, a call out! The IHS bit was unnecessary and note that this is me just checking your bias. It’s not a personal attack.

It's ok, I don't feel attacked.

We have different views, we can just agree to disagree.

Zahra29:


It's ok, I don't feel attacked.

We have different views, we can just agree to disagree.

Sweet 😁

Jamesclooney:


God bless you sir and preserve our lives 🙏🏾 At least I know I’m not running mad. Let’s not even discuss maternity care and the damning report that came out yesterday. It is well. God will keep us all.

Amen bro.

Zahra29:


Exactly, which is why I keep saying to each their own.

Some people will experience better healthcare/life in Nigeria or the US, and some people have experienced and will experience great healthcare in the UK both on the NHS or privately.

Do what works for you. It's the constant complaining and comparing that irks me. No one is saying the NHS is perfect - far from it- but to say it has completely failed is ridiculous.

If people think they are better off in the US or that Nigeria's healthcare is the new Eldorado, then bon voyage. Why stay back and constantly complain?

Rant over 😊

Just remember to keep the same energy if you dare moan about anything in this UK.

Ps - I see the softening of your tone from the derogatory comments about Nigerian healthcare system that was working for some before coming to “El dorado”. I still maintain the NHS failed me and is still failing so many others. I can only speak on my experience and not for the entire system. It is my hope that these criticisms would drive the much needed reforms.

dupyshoo:
I just looked at this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68240096
The number of people being attended to within the acceptable 62 days waitin time has kind of remained constant over the years. However, more people are being diagnosed.
It just shows that NHS has its maximum capacity. As population is increasing, more needs to be done to handle more people. This current NHS is not designed to handle huge population.

They need to restructure their wait times and can’t be banking on a structure they created years ago when situations have changed. While they are at it, they also need to hire better people to receive calls on 111, at least people with basic medical knowledge and not random customer service reps who say stupid things when someone is having a life-threatening emergency and needs an ambulance sent over.

Jamesclooney:


Just remember to keep the same energy if you dare moan about anything in this UK.

Ps - I see the softening of your tone from the derogatory comments about Nigerian healthcare system that was working for some before coming to “El dorado”. I still maintain the NHS failed me and is still failing so many others. I can only speak on my experience and not for the entire system. It is my hope that these criticisms would drive the much needed reforms.

There are many areas that I want to see improvements in the UK. It's not perfect, neither is the US or anywhere else.

However I try to have realistic/ reasonable expectations in the first place especially when it comes to the NHS. On Friday for example, I chose to pay for a same day health service instead of waiting a few days on the NHS, so I did that for my peace of mind.

There is positive criticism and then there is bashing. What you did initially by saying the NHS has completely failed, was the latter.

Your experience and views are valid, but so also are the views and experience of others who support and praise the NHS, while also calling for much needed improvements.

PS - I quoted your use of Eldorado.

I agree!! So much has changed over the years.
I also think another major issue is that GPs are not seeing as many people as they used to before covid. Pre covid, I always get appointment same day or latest within 2 days depending on the urgency. Children younger than 10 used to be seen immediately.
This helped to reduce the need to go to A&E. Also, diseases are caught early, which will lead to quicker diagnosis and resolution. Nowadays it is so difficult to see the GP.

Anyway, I hope things get better soon.

kwakudtraveller:

They need to restructure their wait times and can’t be banking on a structure they created years ago when situations have changed. While they are at it, they also need to hire better people to receive calls on 111, at least people with basic medical knowledge and not random customer service reps who say stupid things when someone is having a life-threatening emergency and needs an ambulance sent over.

babajeje123:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/may/14/no-evidence-foreign-students-abusing-uk-graduate-visas-review
This looks so good

Finally, a positive take. I hope this spreads so the panic amongst students can subside for a bit.

dupyshoo:
I agree!! So much has changed over the years.
I also think another major issue is that GPs are not seeing as many people as they used to before covid. Pre covid, I always get appointment same day or latest within 2 days depending on the urgency. Children younger than 10 used to be seen immediately.
This helped to reduce the need to go to A&E. Also, diseases are caught early, which will lead to quicker diagnosis and resolution. Nowadays it is so difficult to see the GP.

Anyway, I hope things get better soon.

Hear Hear!

Hmm, unfortunately we have not had a very good experience with Nigeria private healthcare. We have had my parents do some tests in Nigeria that we had to redo here with different diagnosis. Surgery gone wrong. So many issues jare. Even ordinary dental healthcare, we will still have to get them here to repeat the procedure.

Maybe, it is just my family experience though.

kwakudtraveller:


I actually feel like I had better healthcare in Nigeria. I felt pampered and I was treated better with my private health insurance. Here even with private health insurance, the doctors are sometimes dismissive.

I’m learning to just exist with my health issues and when I visit Lagos, I’ll do a thorough health check.

? ? ?

Mayko426:
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dupyshoo:
Hmm, unfortunately we have not had a very good experience with Nigeria private healthcare. We have had my parents do some tests in Nigeria that we had to redo here with different diagnosis. Surgery gone wrong. So many issues jare. Even ordinary dental healthcare, we will still have to get them here to repeat the procedure.

Maybe, it is just my family experience though.

I agree, it’s a bit of both. I’ve had a really good experience so far but I can’t say the same for my mother. They almost killed her due to their negligence and it took the grace of God for us not to sue. So yes, people do have bad experiences but some also have it good.

Way too many sad cases like that cancer one. Too many.

kwakudtraveller:

Bro, I truly empathise with you. Having to wait that long to be treated must have really upset you, and rightfully so, and I know that Africans typically do not go to the hospital unless they believe that it’s a serious issue.  

It was on this same thread that I read about someone having gastric cancer, and they kept telling them to go home because they didn’t conduct proper checks until it was too late, and they ended up in hospice. 

A friend had partial stroke and he was seen almost immediately by the nurses but he still had to wait close to 4 hours to be seen by a doctor. How is that person supposed to yell and demand that he be attended to immediately by a Doctor? When even the Doctor is probably exhausted from seeing hundreds of people in a short amount of time.

I think, in general, the NHS has a lot of misplaced priorities. I see them hiring for a lot of mid-level roles that they do not need, and a lot of these managerial staff have duplicate roles. 

They need more skilled medical staff with better pay and not some of these new roles that have yet to add any value to the NHS. A major audit needs to be done at each trust so they can get their shit together.

Thewritingnerd:
Truly experience is the best teacher because I’ve seen a patient who had to wait 53 weeks to get surgery, only for them to come in on said day, starve for more than 12 hours, and have the surgeon call in in the evening to say her surgery has to unfortunately be canceled because of unexpected complications with the ongoing one. After waiting for a whole 53 weeks! 🫠

What people who parrot this “free healthcare” thing don’t mention is that your 1. US employment can also come with healthcare insurance. They’ll yap about taxes too like you don’t already pay cut-throat tax here in the UK. They’ll yap about gun violence but guess who UK tabloids are disrespectfully calling “sword boy”?

2. When you weigh the pros and cons, it DOESN’T balance out. It very gently tilts towards one end. People only argue an obvious advantage when they want to feed themselves copium because they can’t do much to change where life has put them. 😶

1. Even when US roles come with insurance, people often are unable to still use it because the co-pays are too high.

"Just over half of working-age Americans say they sometimes can't afford health care, according to The Commonwealth Fund. About 4 in 10 workers with employer-sponsored insurance or who are on Medicaid say they have difficulty paying, while that rises to about 6 in 10 for people who buy coverage through the Affordable Care Act's marketplaces, the study found." Source: Paying for It: How Health Care Costs and Medical Debt Are Making Americans Sicker and Poorer - https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/surveys/2023/oct/paying-for-it-costs-debt-americans-sicker-poorer-2023-affordability-survey.

2. The word that needs to be in capitals is 'YOU', because it boils down to personal/family preferences. The idea that people are in the UK because they have no choice is funny. As others have said, the fact is that many people have the choice but have run the numbers/life priorities and have decided that it's better.

Personally, my experience with the NHS has been exceptional across the multiple places I've stayed, both in the GP and A & E contexts, so that has informed my perspective. That being said, things are clearly quite bad in many places (I didn't even know how bad before some of the links shared here), so urgent action is needed. Dismissing it as a 'hot mess' or 'totally failed' remains objectively absurd though, in my view.

dupyshoo:
Hmm, unfortunately we have not had a very good experience with Nigeria private healthcare. We have had my parents do some tests in Nigeria that we had to redo here with different diagnosis. Surgery gone wrong. So many issues jare. Even ordinary dental healthcare, we will still have to get them here to repeat the procedure.

Maybe, it is just my family experience though.

It's not just your family's experience sadly...

A family friend recently lost their healthy new born baby due to hospital negligence at one of the top private hospitals in Lagos. No inquiry, investigation - just BAU afterwards. They had just moved from the UK to Nigeria as well.

A friend's cousins are scrambling around to bury their father after the shock of him passing away shortly after he had been admitted for a minor illness. He had otherwise been fit and healthy. Again, no inquiry or investigation.

There are good and bad stories everywhere.

Goodenoch:


1. Even when US roles come with insurance, people often are unable to still use it because the co-pays are too high.

"Just over half of working-age Americans say they sometimes can't afford health care, according to The Commonwealth Fund. About 4 in 10 workers with employer-sponsored insurance or who are on Medicaid say they have difficulty paying, while that rises to about 6 in 10 for people who buy coverage through the Affordable Care Act's marketplaces, the study found." Source: Paying for It: How Health Care Costs and Medical Debt Are Making Americans Sicker and Poorer - https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/surveys/2023/oct/paying-for-it-costs-debt-americans-sicker-poorer-2023-affordability-survey.

2. The word that needs to be in capitals is 'YOU', because it boils down to personal/family preferences. The idea that people are in the UK because they have no choice is funny. As others have said, the fact is that many people have the choice but have run the numbers/life priorities and have decided that it's better.

Personally, my experience with the NHS has been exceptional across the multiple places I've stayed, both in the GP and A & E contexts, so that has informed my perspective. That being said, things are clearly quite bad in many places (I didn't even know how bad before some of the links shared here), so urgent action is needed. Dismissing it as a 'hot mess' or 'totally failed' remains objectively absurd though, in my view.

💯 Well said

From the article:

Tim Bradshaw, the chief executive of the Russell Group of leading research universities, said: “The overall message from the MAC is that the graduate route is achieving its objectives as set out by the government. We would therefore urge ministers to end the uncertainty and confirm as soon as possible that the route will continue in its entirety.”

I wonder why Mr Tim wants prompt confirmation if Russel Group of schools would adjust fine without feeling the financial brunt of these policies, like many immigrants claim 🤔🤭

babajeje123:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/may/14/no-evidence-foreign-students-abusing-uk-graduate-visas-review
This looks so good

“The graduate route is a key part of the offer that we make to international students to come and study in the UK. The fees that these students pay helps universities to cover the losses they make in teaching British students and doing research. Without those students, many universities would need to shrink and less research would be done.”

Interesting statement.

babajeje123:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/may/14/no-evidence-foreign-students-abusing-uk-graduate-visas-review
This looks so good

I’m not parroting hearsay, I am telling you what is currently obtainable from where I work.

Zahra29:


That's certainly not the case anywhere I've seen or heard in the UK, but you're entitled to think what you think.

In both cases. There are two really standout sad cases I really wish I could discuss to highlight the dire state of things but will be unable to.

dupyshoo:
Is it to diagnosis or to access treatment after diagnosis?

Thewritingnerd:
Yes, there’s a waiting list for even cancer patients. Spanning as long as 44 weeks.

Is it possible to evidence this? There is a wait list but that is too long .

I had a look at the link you shared. It did happen.

See? This is why I like this thread. I have read through all of the arguments both for and against.

The truth is ,just like 6 blind men feeling an elephant, we are all correct.

How well your local hospital is now depends, sadly , on where you live. It should not be so. I am losing patience with the promises of NHS reforms. Hopefully we will not have long to wait.

It is well. I hope something is done about it soon.

Thewritingnerd:
In both cases. There are two really standout sad cases I really wish I could discuss to highlight the dire state of things but will be unable to.