This is likely my last reply to you for now. i've satisfied and given you the needed explanations. i'm not here to convince you, encourage you or force you to tithe. If you or anyone has genuine questions about tithes and tithing, i'd answer as much as God permits and as much as i'm available. Meaningless back and forths with stereotyping bigots and extremists remains a great waste of time and resource for me. i've given you the benefit of doubt in replying you as genuine, where you seek to engage in rudderless circles is where i leave you to yourself. No bi by force.

vooks:
Show me a single historical document or paper that shows Israel tithing on ANY non-agricultural stuff. You can't. I referred you to Josephus a first century Jewish historian. You can a,so dig into the Talmud. Scriptures,history and common sense stand against non-agricultural tithing

Josephus the first century Jewish historian;
http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/josephus/ant4.html

Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

That scripture is a valid history evidence that shows jews tithed of more than just agric produce. If that one would not be enough for you, i know that ten more would not suffice. If a professing christian would not believe the Bible, i do not have any other evidence to waste my time showing him. Abraham also gave tithes of more than agric produce but what does that matter to you. Again, i would yet waste one more scripture on you for posterity.
2Ch 31:6 And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.
(CEV) The people from the other towns of Judah brought a tenth of their herds and flocks, as well as a tenth of anything they had dedicated to the LORD.


Jews offered tithes of holy things. holy things simply refer to dedicated, sanctified or devoted things. Holy things have a large variation as you may probably learn from Leviticus 27, they are not ONLY agricultural produce. There is NO Bible verse that says non agricultural tithes cannot be given or is unacceptable before the Lord. This ASSERTION remain a figment of the antitiher's imagination. It does not exist in reality.

It is only tithers who invoke Malachi curses. Scriptures are inspired and that's why your church no longer bans women menstruating simply because it is written

i will say it again. Our posts are available for perusal. i do not know how many of them including me, that you can point to or show that they proclaim curses on antitithers. You don't know me or know my church as to make any assertive statements on what we do or do not do. Learn to drop your bigotry and extremism when interacting with others.

Jesus had reverence for Moses and censured the Pharisees for voiding it with their traditions. That is not a call to Christians to keep Moses as you pretend. That's why Jesus calling Pharisees to keep on tithing is as valid as Jesus commanding a leper to keep Moses

What you have written here is as meaningless as it gets. lemme look at it to pick some sense out of it yet again so that i can at least reply it. It's either you are diverting issues way off course or you are just not making sense. What is the relevance of these group of sentences? What do i pretend(whatever that means)?
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Because you are hard of hearing I will repeat. There is no record of Jesus tithing. His occupation" carpentry did not fall under agriculture so he was ineligible to tithe. When a Pharisee says he tithes ALL, and we are told tithing is from agriculture, we don't need discernment to understand that ALL means what is tithe-able. Did he tithe his kids? What about wives if he had many? Let's try and avoid suspending thinking when it comes to scriptures. Logic is most certainly not incompatible with Chriatianity.

You could hardly refute what i said, or discuss intelligently. you cannot resist the wisdom of what i have written to you by God's grace. Repeating your ignorance like a religious person repeats his prayers is a total waste of time and life. NO SCRIPTURE says anyone is ineligible to tithe. When Jesus told the rich young ruler to go and sell his possessions among other things, i'm sure the devil did not deceive you enough to think extremely and foolishly that those possessions were his kids or wives. The same Jesus and the same Bible talks of what the jewish pharisee possesses and all the devil could pump into you was an extremist view devoid of common sense. That is not logic. We do need discernment, and we are not told that tithing is only from agriculture. The scriptures records and accepts tithes of both agricultural and non agricultural produce. You folks are so full of hypocrisy and reminiscent of your mentors.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

You would not tithe, and you would spend so much time telling others what and how to tithe in the most ridiculous of ways. You have your reward like your fathers.

Actully, Acts 18:12 does not prove Jews tithed more than agriculture. God's Law said His holy tithe was agricultural, and that the Jews could not just do whatever they thought was right in their own eyes.

The Pharisee in the Parable was lying. Also, he did not say, 'We give tithes of all'

Luke 18:12 is far from proof that the Jews tithed things other than agricultural products.

You are hardly reading what i'm saying but asking the same set of questions like a programmed robot. Please think or make an attempt to. If you are interested in discussing, i would find time to, but if you are just interested in replying or regurgitations, i would ignore you. i don't give a hoot if you ever give anything to God apart from your being born again. i'm not here to beg you to tithe or not to. And please, it would help if we post shorter stuff, folks tend to get lost and not get much from unnecessarily long posts. So, to your reply;

chysam:

Comrade,your assertions has no correlation with the subject matter.You mixed a lot of things up and digressed so much.I think it is you who indeed need understanding more than anyone else.

i have made NO ASSERTIONS.

We are talking about a tradition that has nothing to do with followers of christ and not the jews who practiced judaism.The priest who was to receive information from the healed man was not a christian,so it does not matter to a christian whether he tithed or not.

What tradition are we talking about? Vooks has been the one very much interested in the leper and his gifts, maybe you should address your concerns to him.

The bible has a million and one evidence that jesus' followers never paid tithe nor received either.Please when next you disagree on this,then you are blaspheming deliberately. To clearly and sincerely know this is true,we need ask ourselves these questions.

Are you exaggerating, lying or saying the truth? Please list the million and one evidence that Jesus' followers never paid tithe. That is the assertion and extremism that i have being talking about yet again. It is unfounded and baseless, and has already been addressed if you cared to read. If i re-address it again now, you will glibly say something like they were jews. You didn't know or remember that they were jews before asserting(i guess i have said that word so much that it has become a cliche and the meaning is lost on you fellows, please check your dictionary and stop these childish assertions) that Jesus'followers NEVER tithed?

Now, i would answer all your questions being a first timer as it were in discussing with me. i will not be detailed as most of what you are asking have been asked and addressed previously and severally. i'm not here on any examination, neither am i your holy spirit. If you need teaching, ask Him. i'm here to discuss if you can.

1.Did the priest represent a christian and mediate in his behalf?

Yes, christians are priests and kings. The OT priest is a picture and a shadow of what we are. you should not run away from or deny or try to hide your shadow, that would border on insanity.

2.Was a levite priest holy enough to mediate and interceed for jesus?

What is the meaning and relevance of this? Anyway, Jesus was subject to levite priests while here on earth. He attended their feasts and programmes, offered the sacrifices needed and fulfilled their laws.

3.Did jesus and the Levite priest operate at the same time?

What do you mean by operate? Jesus was here on earth with levite priests operating. He still operates till tomorrow.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

4.Would it have been proper for jesus to tithe to a sinful levite priest for the remission of his sin??
5.Was tithe also meant for remission of sin for Israelites before the advent of jesus?

Tithing is not for remission of sins. Father, give me the patience.

6.Doesn't it require very serious praying and fasting by a christian to ask God sincerely to forgive him for saying that "HOLY" and "SINLESS" Jesus the christ paid tithe to a hypocritical Levite priest who was far lesser than John the baptist who even said that he is unfit to untie jesus's shoe lace?.

No, it doesn't. Holy and sinless Jesus was subject to His sinful and imperfect parents and to authority around Him. he respected government, He respected people, He gave tribute, He observed passover and other such things. He was born in a manger.

7.Do you realise it is a very big sin,if not the biggest for a christian to open his mouth to say that jesus tithed? Just because he want to defend this unholy extortion?.Perhaps you may tell us it was normal for jesus to have tithed for remission of sin and offered animal sacrifice for his sins too.

What? This is extrabiblical stuff, right? Where do you find this, who told you or how do you come to this conclusion? Some people actually liked this post? As in, they agree with what you are saying?

8.Do you know that judaism and christianity existed side by side and simultaenously?. If you don't,please check your bible as the record is there.Where was tithe being paid and received between these two religions?,and where was it not being paid and received?. Where was animal sacrifice taking place between these two religions and where was it not.?

Tithe was paid in the temple and the cities. Judaism and christianity were also practised in the temple and in the cities. Do you know that Paul the apostle had sacrifices offered for him as a christian?

9.If you falsely teach that christians paid tithe,then you admit that they were under the leadership of the levite priests.Is this what the bible tell us? No!.They were under the leadership of jesus christ firstly,and later the apostles.Naturally they would have paid their own tithes to jesus and later to the apostles.But the bible is clear and comprehensive about how early christians raised funds to support their ministry.

IF.
Early christians gave and were encouragged to give like their jewish counterparts.
1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

They gave purposefully, bountifully, cheerfully, graciously and proportionally. That is how clear the Bible is.

10.Is it true that people who previously practiced judaism accepted christ as their personal lord and saviour and became born again? Yes.
11.Is it true that upon becoming born again they abandoned the practices of judaism which included tithing and animal sacrifice and embibed the christian tradition? Yes.

Lol.

12.If these former judaism practioners abandoned it and followed christ,at where did they continue to pay and receive tithes?

What is Judaism? Is worship of God a judaism practice? Is honouring one's parent a judaism practice? Are mercy, faith and justice judaism practices? Is not having another person's wife a judaism practice? Is tithing a judaism practice?

13.Have you read the story of Saul who later became Paul?
14.Is it true that he was an active force in judaism and killed christians with authorisation from the chief priests?
15.Is it true that he fulfilled most commandments of the law which included tithe paying?

Where is his story found so that i can be sure i read what you expect me to have read? Did Paul/Saul pay tithe? Oh, he was a farmer right? Pardon me, i didn't know.

16.Is it true that he was ordered to murder christians because he was qualified as loyal and bonafide member of that sect?
17.What happened after he encountered jesus on his way to Damascaus?
18.Did he go back to practice judaism and their laws?

What? Are these the expo for the coming CRK exams? i'm not offering the subject oh.

19.What lessons "MUST" a true and real christian/follower of christ learn from Paul,especially in matters related to Christian tithe paying?

You tell us the lessons we MUST learn. So, there are lessons about tithe from Paul, hmmm. Some antitithers are of the opinion that the New Testament doesn't even talk abot tithes or offer any such lessons, please help us enlighten them.

20.Why should a 21st century pastor boldly stand on a pulpit and claim to be representing the Levites priests who orchestrated and masterminded the murder of jeses christ?

i don't know why anyone would do that, what do you think?

21.Why must a pastor emulate the practices of a Levite priest which is "UNCHRISTIAN" in nature?

i have no idea. What practices are those?

22.Why are pastors not sincerely claiming that they are emulating the apostles,then search the scriptures very well to read and understand how the apostles raised funds for their ministry as christians and not as levite priests,and then follow suit exactly without quoting scriptures out of context in a foolish manner just to defend senselessly the extortion called tithe.

Sighs, i have issues and difficulties speaking for people that i hardly know. How can i say why who i don't know is doing what i don't know?

24.Christian means a person who is absolutely following the footsteps of jesus christ,and striving hard to be like him,stand for those things he stood for and against those things he hated.Otherwise you are a fake christian practicing something else.

Exactly bro. Jesus Christ NEVER condemned tithes in the scriptures. instead, He encouraged it and we ought to walk even as He walked, right? These things OUGHT TO BE DONE and not to leave the others undone, ring a bell?

it is therefore fool hardy and a great sin to begin to refer to Abraham,levite priests and the people before christ in matters of tithing.A good christian must speak from the angle of where he belong,which is christianity or christ follower must check the bible and see if his master jesus paid tithe or received tithe,if he never did any of this,then he is not entitled to neither as well.

You seem to have a degree or certificate in the study of sin? ALL these sins that you conjure up and even call great sins. Are you the christ we have been looking for? Where do you get these views?

[s]As for those fake pastor who invoke the Malachi curse to create fear in people,please repent before it is too late.Do not forget that Saul later became one of the greatest vessels of christ coming from judaism.He wrote a great chunk of the gospel.Even the priests tried by all means to kill him because he was no longer doing their will and worshiping with them.He was no longer paying their tithe too.So also were the other apostles.Could somebody under the curse of God be allowed by God to be an inspired writer? Paul and some of the apostles performed great miracles and even raised the dead back to lfe!!!. For Gods sake,could all these have been possible if they were cursed for not paying the levite priests tithes?. Please let us all control our glutony and try to understand who a true christian is.No need quoting the bible out of context,it is meaningless and senseless in all ramification. May we all read the book of Hebrew from beginning to end.Paul clearly stated that the law prepared the way for christ's coming and was valid until his arrival.in him the law was fulfilled.When jesus said he has not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it,he was simply telling the people that in him,the law has been fulfilled and that soon everything will take a new course as replacement for several practices that God abhored which prompted him to send christ.The day he was nailed to the cross marked the new beginning for "CHRISTIANS",and curse is everyone that is hangeth on the cross.Now we bear on our body the mark of christ and not the mark of the law.somewhere in hebrew Paul said anyone still practicing the traditions of the laws is not worshipping christ but has gone astray. He added that why he was active about the things concerning the law,he felt he was truly serving God but never knew he was not.He confessed that receiving christ has indeed opened his eyes to see the true religion and that he would never ever go back to his former practices.True to his pledge,he never did.Now let us ask ourselves a simple question here.If Paul renounced judaism that popularised him,could he have retained his tithe paying?.[/s]

Fake pastors, do pay attention. this information seems to be addressed to you guys. Oh, and some fellows called ourselves.

Please I want a sincere tither to answer this last question with the fear of God and christ if he has any.

Has any one wondered why christ told the pharisees that tithe is not a matter that has weight. If a matter does not have weight,how then does it bring about curse.Christ in his godly quality made that statement because he works in hand hand with God.meaning God authorised him to make such utterance.So why is a mere mortal wiser than jesus and God in this case?. Why do they still preach curse which God has already abolished through christ.Pls tithers and receivers,have a rethink,read and understand the bible because it is very clear and never confusing at all

Wonder no more brother, tithes is a little matter that has no weight compared to heavier weightier matters OF THE LAW like mercy and faith and judgement. tithes is a big matter in the heart of many antithers. They make ministries, callings and blogs to talk about tithe. They determine who is a true believer and who is not by tithes. They wate their lives fighting, antagonising and criticising a matter that has little weight. That is the wonder. well, Jesus said to expect many fake wonders and not be moved by them.

Each time jesus needed to feed the congregation,he relied on the few bread and fishes the congregants could provide from within,A tithe paying congregation/worshippers wouldn't have produced just five loaves of bread and a few fishes on such occassions.infact only a person that is already bedeviled will dare question why christians did not pay in jesus time and beyond.it is absolutely a question only a criminal with ulterior motive could ask because every reason about that is much more than clear and many. At one time the disciples almost revolted about Mary wasting a costly ointment on jesus and argued it should have been sold and the money given to the poor.Not that Mary should have tithed it so they could sell it and raise money for themselves as christians priests. Please have a change of heart,encourage freewill donations as christ and the apostles taught,stop preaching about curses for a non christian tradition because christ himself who we emulated disobeyed and called it unimportant!!! And even enpowered his apostles spiritually that they even raised the dead.Why don't these pastors teach about this and ask the congregants questions about things such as the effects of Malachi curse on christ and his followers

To whom it may concern.

It is not the verse that is absurd, it is your ignorant application of the same. Ignorance is what made jews terrorize Christians. THey had Torah and probably thought thehy were doing God a favor

Image123:


You referred to a bible verse as sounding absurd. That is as low as it gets, but what do you care. you think we are just having a debate and that appears to you a good defense. i don't get your message about your love or lack of it for atheists and acrobats, can you please stay on relevant discussion?

Luke 18:12. Don't be obtuse. Jesus gave the parable to people who never needed an explanation of what tithe is because they had already been instructed by Moses. So the least we can do is to apply our brains to EXACTLY what Moses taught about tithing because we, unlike the Jews were not taught tithing. So the verse does little besides referring you back to Torah.

Don't quote Abraham for he gave everything away, 10% to Melchizedek, 90% to the kings

2 Chr 31:6... Who asked for your fantasies in interpretation? how does 'the tithe of holy things' or 'a tenth of anything they had dedicated to the LORD' mean non-Agricultural?
Quit circular reasoning. If the tithe belongs to God, it automatically becomes holy thing,dedicated to God.
If I dedicate to God silver, I can't give Him 10% of it because ALL of it belongs to Him. So there is nothing like dedicating things and then giving to God a fraction of these. You give EVERYTHING you dedicate. The point is a tithe becomes holy things or dedicated things but holy things or dedicated things are not necessarily tithes


Once again, you are professional scripture contortionist sharing your hallucinations and traditions for the Word of God. There is no record in the scriptures of non-Agricultural tithing nor in history because God never required any of it. You like the Pharisee would have the world believe that you are the most obedient CHristian, that you keep the Law while in reality you mutilate the same to uphold man-made doctrines. You probaly think you are more righteous than the rest. Modern day Pharisee we have in you

Image123:
This is likely my last reply to you for now. i've satisfied and given you the needed explanations. i'm not here to convince you, encourage you or force you to tithe. If you or anyone has genuine questions about tithes and tithing, i'd answer as much as God permits and as much as i'm available. Meaningless back and forths with stereotyping bigots and extremists remains a great waste of time and resource for me. i've given you the benefit of doubt in replying you as genuine, where you seek to engage in rudderless circles is where i leave you to yourself. No bi by force.



Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

That scripture is a valid history evidence that shows jews tithed of more than just agric produce. If that one would not be enough for you, i know that ten more would not suffice. If a professing christian would not believe the Bible, i do not have any other evidence to waste my time showing him. Abraham also gave tithes of more than agric produce but what does that matter to you. Again, i would yet waste one more scripture on you for posterity.
2Ch 31:6 And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.
(CEV) The people from the other towns of Judah brought a tenth of their herds and flocks, as well as a tenth of anything they had dedicated to the LORD.


Jews offered tithes of holy things. holy things simply refer to dedicated, sanctified or devoted things. Holy things have a large variation as you may probably learn from Leviticus 27, they are not ONLY agricultural produce. There is NO Bible verse that says non agricultural tithes cannot be given or is unacceptable before the Lord. This ASSERTION remain a figment of the antitiher's imagination. It does not exist in reality.





i will say it again. Our posts are available for perusal. i do not know how many of them including me, that you can point to or show that they proclaim curses on antitithers. You don't know me or know my church as to make any assertive statements on what we do or do not do. Learn to drop your bigotry and extremism when interacting with others.


What you have written here is as meaningless as it gets. lemme look at it to pick some sense out of it yet again so that i can at least reply it. It's either you are diverting issues way off course or you are just not making sense. What is the relevance of these group of sentences? What do i pretend(whatever that means)?
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.



You could hardly refute what i said, or discuss intelligently. you cannot resist the wisdom of what i have written to you by God's grace. Repeating your ignorance like a religious person repeats his prayers is a total waste of time and life. NO SCRIPTURE says anyone is ineligible to tithe. When Jesus told the rich young ruler to go and sell his possessions among other things, i'm sure the devil did not deceive you enough to think extremely and foolishly that those possessions were his kids or wives. The same Jesus and the same Bible talks of what the jewish pharisee possesses and all the devil could pump into you was an extremist view devoid of common sense. That is not logic. We do need discernment, and we are not told that tithing is only from agriculture. The scriptures records and accepts tithes of both agricultural and non agricultural produce. You folks are so full of hypocrisy and reminiscent of your mentors.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

You would not tithe, and you would spend so much time telling others what and how to tithe in the most ridiculous of ways. You have your reward like your fathers.

Hey vooks,

Can you imagine what it would be like if Image's theory concerning tithes were true?

10% of all food, clothing, gold, silver, furniture, dinnerware, etc., would have to be tithed.

After all, the Scripture does say, "the tithe of all things", does it not?

Seems to me there would be no room for the Levites to live, seeing the are getting 10% of all those items. Tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of people taking all that stuff to the Levites in the forty-eight cities as the Law required..

Stuff piled in the streets because there was no room. Hezekiah sees the heaps and orders the storehouse to be built in the Temple. So thousands of items, chairs, beds, clothes, gold, silver, food, dinnerware, etc., are taken to the House of God and into the chambers as instructed.

Just how big was the Temple to hold all that stuff? RoFL

See where the theory that "tithe of all things" means everything was titheable leads? No room in the Temple at all for animal sacrifices and other Temple duties. I'm surprised the holy of holies was even useable for more than needed storage, LoL

Josephus records the Temple as being 485½ feet long× 145½ feet wide.

The Bible records that the tithe of all things was taken to the Temple. No matter how much Image wants all to not mean agricultural only, the dimensions of the Temple reveal that cannot be the case. Anything more than farmer's crops being tithed .
would have demanded a much larger Temple

Wow!
Excellent observation Mark.
I never thought about it from this angle. The physical limitations of the temple debunking the 'tithe of all' theory.

MarkMiwerds:
Hey vooks,

Can you imagine what it would be like if Image's theory concerning tithes were true?

10% of all food, clothing, gold, silver, furniture, dinnerware, etc., would have to be tithed.

After all, the Scripture does say, "the tithe of all things", does it not?

Seems to me there would be no room for the Levites to live, seeing the are getting 10% of all those items. Tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of people taking all that stuff to the Levites in the forty-eight cities as the Law required..

Stuff piled in the streets because there was no room. Hezekiah sees the heaps and orders the storehouse to be built in the Temple. So thousands of items, chairs, beds, clothes, gold, silver, food, dinnerware, etc., are taken to the House of God and into the chambers as instructed.

Just how big was the Temple to hold all that stuff? RoFL

See where the theory that "tithe of all things" means everything was titheable leads? No room in the Temple at all for animal sacrifices and other Temple duties. I'm surprised the holy of holies was even useable for more than needed storage, LoL

I have a few question for tithers.

1. What else could have possibly been tithed apart from farm produce?
Let's take money. If indeed it was tithed, what was the point of tithing the produce? Why not just convert everything to money and take it to the temple? or say silverware. You buy twenty pieces and tithe two of them. But you bought the twenty using the 90% that remained after you tithed your money.


2. If it were proven (as it has) beyond doubt that tithing was restricted to farm produce, how would it affect you?

MarkMiwerds:
Josephus records the Temple as being 485½ feet long× 145½ feet wide.

The Bible records that the tithe of all things was taken to the Temple. No matter how much Image wants all to not mean agricultural only, the dimensions of the Temple reveal that cannot be the case. Anything more than farmer's crops being tithed .
would have demanded a much larger Temple

http://boldproclaimer./2014/11/12/the-tithe-the-temple/

An article I just wrote concerning the tithe of all things.

MarkMiwerds:
Josephus records the Temple as being 485½ feet long× 145½ feet wide.

The Bible records that the tithe of all things was taken to the Temple. No matter how much Image wants all to not mean agricultural only, the dimensions of the Temple reveal that cannot be the case. Anything more than farmer's crops being tithed .
would have demanded a much larger Temple

Lol @Mark. We should assume and suppose that 10% of ALL Israel's agricultural produce MUST be less than the size of Josephus's temple. But 10% of tithes of all things that the Bible records CANNOT BE less than Josephus temple. Do you see why i say you are a bigot?
BTW, tithes talked about in that passage is of course on increase for that year. It wasn't a tithe of every property in Israel. Tithe is 10% of INCOME or INCREASE.bring forth all the tithe of thine increase. Emphasis on increase.

Image123:


Lol @Mark. We should assume and suppose that 10% of ALL Israel's agricultural produce MUST be less than the size of Josephus's temple. But 10% of tithes of all things that the Bible records CANNOT BE less than Josephus temple. Do you see why i say you are a bigot?
BTW, tithes talked about in that passage is of course on increase for that year. It wasn't a tithe of every property in Israel. Tithe is 10% of INCOME or INCREASE.bring forth all the tithe of thine increase. Emphasis on increase.

Olodo the tithe taken to the temple was the tithe of the tithe, i.e 1% of the tithe of Israel and it was strictly from agric produce contrary to the false impression you are trying to give. Ole buruku.

I wonder whether tithers knocking themselves out with 10% income know the average Jew tithed 22% p.a in total

1. Leviticus 27:30-33 and Numbers 18:21 is the one for Levites- 10%
2. Deut 14:22-27 is the festive tithe supposed to be eaten - 10% of 90%= 9%
3. And of course the welfare tithe of Deut 14:28-29 every third year- 10%/3 = 3.3% p.a

Image123:
This is likely my last reply to you for now. i've satisfied and given you the needed explanations. i'm not here to convince you, encourage you or force you to tithe. If you or anyone has genuine questions about tithes and tithing, i'd answer as much as God permits and as much as i'm available. Meaningless back and forths with stereotyping bigots and extremists remains a great waste of time and resource for me. i've given you the benefit of doubt in replying you as genuine, where you seek to engage in rudderless circles is where i leave you to yourself. No bi by force.



Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

That scripture is a valid history evidence that shows jews tithed of more than just agric produce. If that one would not be enough for you, i know that ten more would not suffice. If a professing christian would not believe the Bible, i do not have any other evidence to waste my time showing him. Abraham also gave tithes of more than agric produce but what does that matter to you. Again, i would yet waste one more scripture on you for posterity.
2Ch 31:6 And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.
(CEV) The people from the other towns of Judah brought a tenth of their herds and flocks, as well as a tenth of anything they had dedicated to the LORD.


Jews offered tithes of holy things. holy things simply refer to dedicated, sanctified or devoted things. Holy things have a large variation as you may probably learn from Leviticus 27, they are not ONLY agricultural produce. There is NO Bible verse that says non agricultural tithes cannot be given or is unacceptable before the Lord. This ASSERTION remain a figment of the antitiher's imagination. It does not exist in reality.





i will say it again. Our posts are available for perusal. i do not know how many of them including me, that you can point to or show that they proclaim curses on antitithers. You don't know me or know my church as to make any assertive statements on what we do or do not do. Learn to drop your bigotry and extremism when interacting with others.


What you have written here is as meaningless as it gets. lemme look at it to pick some sense out of it yet again so that i can at least reply it. It's either you are diverting issues way off course or you are just not making sense. What is the relevance of these group of sentences? What do i pretend(whatever that means)?
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.



You could hardly refute what i said, or discuss intelligently. you cannot resist the wisdom of what i have written to you by God's grace. Repeating your ignorance like a religious person repeats his prayers is a total waste of time and life. NO SCRIPTURE says anyone is ineligible to tithe. When Jesus told the rich young ruler to go and sell his possessions among other things, i'm sure the devil did not deceive you enough to think extremely and foolishly that those possessions were his kids or wives. The same Jesus and the same Bible talks of what the jewish pharisee possesses and all the devil could pump into you was an extremist view devoid of common sense. That is not logic. We do need discernment, and we are not told that tithing is only from agriculture. The scriptures records and accepts tithes of both agricultural and non agricultural produce. You folks are so full of hypocrisy and reminiscent of your mentors.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

You would not tithe, and you would spend so much time telling others what and how to tithe in the most ridiculous of ways. You have your reward like your fathers.

As born again Christians you would think we would follow the same doctrines.
Some still believe in the OT laws, and non-tithers such as myself, believe other wise, Jesus said: In Galatians 3:10-11-12 For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse.
Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law.
Yet the law is not of faith.
Why would anyone want to follow one old law, and not follow the other.
Wasn't Tithing, sacrificing and offerings part of that OT law.
So why obey one law and not the other.
Matthew 5:20, For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no-means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 23:23, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites, For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: Justice and mercy and faith. {These you ought to have done}, without leaving the others undone.
So even the scribes and Pharisees obeyed the one law which was the tithe, but not the other.
And since we have tithing in place with most churches today, Then you need to follow all the laws.
Do what your fore-fathers did in the OT.
Tithing, sacrificing, and offerings.

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You are hardly reading what i'm saying but asking the same set of questions like a programmed robot. Please think or make an attempt to. If you are interested in discussing, i would find time to, but if you are just interested in replying or regurgitations, i would ignore you. i don't give a hoot if you ever give anything to God apart from your being born again. i'm not here to beg you to tithe or not to. And please, it would help if we post shorter stuff, folks tend to get lost and not get much from unnecessarily long posts. So, to your reply;


i have made NO ASSERTIONS.




What tradition are we talking about? Vooks has been the one very much interested in the leper and his gifts, maybe you should address your concerns to him.


Are you exaggerating, lying or saying the truth? Please list the million and one evidence that Jesus' followers never paid tithe. That is the assertion and extremism that i have being talking about yet again. It is unfounded and baseless, and has already been addressed if you cared to read. If i re-address it again now, you will glibly say something like they were jews. You didn't know or remember that they were jews before asserting(i guess i have said that word so much that it has become a cliche and the meaning is lost on you fellows, please check your dictionary and stop these childish assertions) that Jesus'followers NEVER tithed?

Now, i would answer all your questions being a first timer as it were in discussing with me. i will not be detailed as most of what you are asking have been asked and addressed previously and severally. i'm not here on any examination, neither am i your holy spirit. If you need teaching, ask Him. i'm here to discuss if you can.


Yes, christians are priests and kings. The OT priest is a picture and a shadow of what we are. you should not run away from or deny or try to hide your shadow, that would border on insanity.


What is the meaning and relevance of this? Anyway, Jesus was subject to levite priests while here on earth. He attended their feasts and programmes, offered the sacrifices needed and fulfilled their laws.



What do you mean by operate? Jesus was here on earth with levite priests operating. He still operates till tomorrow.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.



Tithing is not for remission of sins. Father, give me the patience.



No, it doesn't. Holy and sinless Jesus was subject to His sinful and imperfect parents and to authority around Him. he respected government, He respected people, He gave tribute, He observed passover and other such things. He was born in a manger.



What? This is extrabiblical stuff, right? Where do you find this, who told you or how do you come to this conclusion? Some people actually liked this post? As in, they agree with what you are saying?


Tithe was paid in the temple and the cities. Judaism and christianity were also practised in the temple and in the cities. Do you know that Paul the apostle had sacrifices offered for him as a christian?


IF.
Early christians gave and were encouragged to give like their jewish counterparts.
1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

They gave purposefully, bountifully, cheerfully, graciously and proportionally. That is how clear the Bible is.



Lol.


What is Judaism? Is worship of God a judaism practice? Is honouring one's parent a judaism practice? Are mercy, faith and justice judaism practices? Is not having another person's wife a judaism practice? Is tithing a judaism practice?


Where is his story found so that i can be sure i read what you expect me to have read? Did Paul/Saul pay tithe? Oh, he was a farmer right? Pardon me, i didn't know.


What? Are these the expo for the coming CRK exams? i'm not offering the subject oh.


You tell us the lessons we MUST learn. So, there are lessons about tithe from Paul, hmmm. Some antitithers are of the opinion that the New Testament doesn't even talk abot tithes or offer any such lessons, please help us enlighten them.


i don't know why anyone would do that, what do you think?


i have no idea. What practices are those?


Sighs, i have issues and difficulties speaking for people that i hardly know. How can i say why who i don't know is doing what i don't know?


Exactly bro. Jesus Christ NEVER condemned tithes in the scriptures. instead, He encouraged it and we ought to walk even as He walked, right? These things OUGHT TO BE DONE and not to leave the others undone, ring a bell?


You seem to have a degree or certificate in the study of sin? ALL these sins that you conjure up and even call great sins. Are you the christ we have been looking for? Where do you get these views?



Fake pastors, do pay attention. this information seems to be addressed to you guys. Oh, and some fellows called ourselves.


Wonder no more brother, tithes is a little matter that has no weight compared to heavier weightier matters OF THE LAW like mercy and faith and judgement. tithes is a big matter in the heart of many antithers. They make ministries, callings and blogs to talk about tithe. They determine who is a true believer and who is not by tithes. They wate their lives fighting, antagonising and criticising a matter that has little weight. That is the wonder. well, Jesus said to expect many fake wonders and not be moved by them.


To whom it may concern.

I am not surprised you have very little knowledge of the Bible. No where in the Bible is Tithe recorded to have been paid with Money.If you can show me any where it is written,then I will join the tithers.The command was absolutely agricultural produce.Secondly,you tactically parried a very vital question that should teach even a slowpoke that tithing is criminal in nature.I asked if Paul continued paying tithe after encountering Jesus.Remember he was from the Tribe of Benjamin and paid his tithes to the Levites.You must be up and doing with the laws of Moses before you can be authorised by the priests to persecute the Christians.If you agree that Christianity and Judaism existed at the same time,can you please tell us the reason why the were in opposition with each other even though some idiotic minds claim that Jesus did not condem the law.Why was Paul sought after to be killed later on?.Why were the christians maytred if their own practices were in tandem with those who practiced Judaism? Please shed light on these few questions if you can,

Furthermore,In the last two thousand years,tithing is no longer applicable in Israel.There are no longer levite priests nor temples.Each and every christian as a living being is now a temple of God.The Israelite Christians do not pay tithe today because the same history affects them. Can you tell every one in this forum why Nigerians for example must keep an abolished Mosaic law of tithing? Please explain.

You also said with infinity that Jesus Tithed.That people who practiced Judaism tithed in the temples,while Jesus' followers tithed in the cities.Can you please name the cities where Jesus' followers tithed?.For your information,Jesus did not tithe because he was a carpenter.Wood workers were exempted from tithing like some other groups too.Secondly,tithing and burnt offerings were for the remission of sins of the people of Israel and Jesus was without sins and there was no way he could have tithed and stood before sinful priests for confirmation of his burnt offerings acceptance. The only way tithers could perfectly make their claims fit in is to evolve another biblical version of how christians and the judaism practioners cooperated effectively.Only then would it make sense to say that christians tithed the time of the Apostles. Please learn to read and understand the bible clearly and not just quoting out of context.

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Lol @Mark. We should assume and suppose that 10% of ALL Israel's agricultural produce MUST be less than the size of Josephus's temple. But 10% of tithes of all things that the Bible records CANNOT BE less than Josephus temple. Do you see why i say you are a bigot?
BTW, tithes talked about in that passage is of course on increase for that year. It wasn't a tithe of every property in Israel. Tithe is 10% of INCOME or INCREASE.bring forth all the tithe of thine increase. Emphasis on increase.

aren't you twisting the Scripture a bit? It does not say increase of all things. It says

2 Chronicles 31:5 (KJV) 5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all [things] brought they in abundantly.

And, wouldn't new clothing, new furniture, new dinnerware, silver and gold earned by working men have been increase according to your definition?

The thing is, 1% of agricultural products in the Temple chambers is far more believable than 1% of increase of furniture, dinnerware, clothing, gold, silver, food, etc., being taken into the chambers. Especially in light of the fact that God said His hoy tithe was agricultural.

MarkMiwerds:
aren't you twisting the Scripture a bit? It does not say increase of all things. It says

2 Chronicles 31:5 (KJV) 5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all [things] brought they in abundantly.

And, wouldn't new clothing, new furniture, new dinnerware, silver and gold earned by working men have been increase according to your definition?

The thing is, 1% of agricultural products in the Temple chambers is far more believable than 1% of increase of furniture, dinnerware, clothing, gold, silver, etc., being taken into the chambers. Especially in light of the fact that God said His hoy tithe was agricultural.

Aren't you twisting my words a bit, did i say "increase of all things"? Increase and maybe savings is what is used to buy new clothing, new furniture etc. Once tithe is given of your INCOME which is your INCREASE, that is already settled.
'believe-ability' is relative. Let's stick with what the Bible says, not what you choose as believable. ALSO, God didn't say anywhere that His holy tithe was ONLY agricultural. He never had any qualms with non-agricultural tithes in the Bible, that's the point.

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Aren't you twisting my words a bit, did i say "increase of all things"? Increase and maybe savings is what is used to buy new clothing, new furniture etc. Once tithe is given of your INCOME which is your INCREASE, that is already settled.
'believe-ability' is relative. Let's stick with what the Bible says, not what you choose as believable. ALSO, God didn't say anywhere that His holy tithe was ONLY agricultural. He never had any qualms with non-agricultural tithes in the Bible, that's the point.

stick to what the bible says? That's rich coming from you that regularly adds to what the bible says. Abi it's too difficult to stick to God's instructions as per tithing if you really have to tithe? Why add monetary tithe to it

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Aren't you twisting my words a bit, did i say "increase of all things"? Increase and maybe savings is what is used to buy new clothing, new furniture etc. Once tithe is given of your INCOME which is your INCREASE, that is already settled.
'believe-ability' is relative. Let's stick with what the Bible says, not what you choose as believable. ALSO, God didn't say anywhere that His holy tithe was ONLY agricultural. He never had any qualms with non-agricultural tithes in the Bible, that's the point.

I think you need some help here because like so many others like you,you no absolutely nothing about the bible and must have based your arguments purely on what your pastor says.
Contrary to your assertions,God had so much qualm about tithing with money.Infact he advised tithers who lived fart away from areas he he required tithers to bring their tithes to sell their agricultural produce,travel with the money and upon arrival to the place should convert the money back to agricultural produce before tithing.Furthermore,it is of no business to a follower of jesus if or not the people of the temple tithed.If any one truly believe in christ,he must concern himself only with those things that he taught his followers.A christian has no business with whatever ensued between Jesus and the Pharisees because the Pharisees were never christians and refused to become one even though they had a 110% opportunity to become one.A sincere christian in matters of tithing should ask himself this question,"Did Jesus teach me about tithing?".The answer is no."Did the apostles teach me about tithing?".The answer again is no.Then who taught me to be paying and receiving tithes?. Draw your answers and reasons from the Christian point of view.If any one foolishly argue that bible is one,both the OT and the NT,then he does not value the death of Christ.IF OT and NT were one,why were the non christians jews in conflict with the followers of christ?.The answer is very simple;because both religion disagree.Christ came with a new doctrine.For example,keeping the Sabbath was Gods law,but jesus broke it.In reality he did not break it,he was actually effecting changes which was clearly one of the reasons he came.Only those who beleived in him partook of those changes and tithing was one of them as is very clear in the scriptures.No Christian leader of jesus and the apostles era received that and every body knows this even todays pastors.So why must he receive tithes if his progenitors did not?. Is he better than them?. I challenege anybody here to tell me that early christians leaders received tithes.If they didn't,what other senseless prove is anybody still looking for?

Thur shall not steal..

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Aren't you twisting my words a bit, did i say "increase of all things"? Increase and maybe savings is what is used to buy new clothing, new furniture etc. Once tithe is given of your INCOME which is your INCREASE, that is already settled.
'believe-ability' is relative. Let's stick with what the Bible says, not what you choose as believable. ALSO, God didn't say anywhere that His holy tithe was ONLY agricultural. He never had any qualms with non-agricultural tithes in the Bible, that's the point.

brocab:
First you can't eat money, And Jesus said: he will provide for our needs. Birds they neither sow, nor they neither reap, nor put into barns, and yet the lord feeds them; How much more are you.
second tithing was put in place for the remissions of sins.
Jesus didn't tithe because we all know Jesus isn't a sinner.
And if we are to imitate Jesus, and follow him, then tithing isn't for us.
Thur shall not steal..

Actually, BroCab, tithing was not for the remission of sins. Tithing was for the sustenance of the Levites, the widows, orphans, and Gentiles living in Israel.

One can never convince me that tithing to Levites would cause one's sins to be remitted.
One can never convince me that tithing to widows would cause one's sins to be remitted.
One can never convince me that tithing to orphans would cause one's sins to be remitted.
One can never convince me that tithing to Gentiles would cause one's sins to be remitted.

The only thing that brought about remission of sin was the sacrificial blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Again, the purpose of the tithe was to feed the Levites, the widows, the orphans and the Gentiles living in Israel.

Excellent observation chysam,
I had asked what was the point of hauling the farm produce to the temple if money was equally acceptable. Surely it would have saved Jews much trouble of transporting all that weight to the Levites cities and subsequently the 1% to the Temple. And recall this was done twice a year and another once every third year.

The pathetic levels some descend to prop a man made. Tradition that was introduced 400 years after Pentecost is shocking. Now you know why Obtuse does not come close to describing their minds

chysam:


I think you need some help here because like so many others like you,you no absolutely nothing about the bible and must have based your arguments purely on what your pastor says.
Contrary to your assertions,God had so much qualm about tithing with money.Infact he advised tithers who lived fart away from areas he he required tithers to bring their tithes to sell their agricultural produce,travel with the money and upon arrival to the place should convert the money back to agricultural produce before tithing.Furthermore,it is of no business to a follower of jesus if or not the people of the temple tithed.If any one truly believe in christ,he must concern himself only with those things that he taught his followers.A christian has no business with whatever ensued between Jesus and the Pharisees because the Pharisees were never christians and refused to become one even though they had a 110% opportunity to become one.A sincere christian in matters of tithing should ask himself this question,"Did Jesus teach me about tithing?".The answer is no."Did the apostles teach me about tithing?".The answer again is no.Then who taught me to be paying and receiving tithes?. Draw your answers and reasons from the Christian point of view.If any one foolishly argue that bible is one,both the OT and the NT,then he does not value the death of Christ.IF OT and NT were one,why were the non christians jews in conflict with the followers of christ?.The answer is very simple;because both religion disagree.Christ came with a new doctrine.For example,keeping the Sabbath was Gods law,but jesus broke it.In reality he did not break it,he was actually effecting changes which was clearly one of the reasons he came.Only those who beleived in him partook of those changes and tithing was one of them as is very clear in the scriptures.No Christian leader of jesus and the apostles era received that and every body knows this even todays pastors.So why must he receive tithes if his progenitors did not?. Is he better than them?. I challenege anybody here to tell me that early christians leaders received tithes.If they didn't,what other senseless prove is anybody still looking for?

Yeh thanks you are right , what was I thinking?

MarkMiwerds:
Actually, BroCab, tithing was not for the remission of sins. Tithing was for the sustenance of the Levites, the widows, orphans, and Gentiles living in Israel.

One can never convince me that tithing to Levites would cause one's sins to be remitted.
One can never convince me that tithing to widows would cause one's sins to be remitted.
One can never convince me that tithing to orphans would cause one's sins to be remitted.
One can never convince me that tithing to Gentiles would cause one's sins to be remitted.

The only thing that brought about remission of sin was the sacrificial blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Again, the purpose of the tithe was to feed the Levites, the widows, the orphans and the Gentiles living in Israel.

chysam:


I am not surprised you have very little knowledge of the Bible. No where in the Bible is Tithe recorded to have been paid with Money.If you can show me any where it is written,then I will join the tithers.

Really? You don't need to join the tithers, they are doing just fine without you.

The command was absolutely agricultural produce.Secondly,you tactically parried a very vital question that should teach even a slowpoke that tithing is criminal in nature.I asked if Paul continued paying tithe after encountering Jesus.Remember he was from the Tribe of Benjamin and paid his tithes to the Levites.You must be up and doing with the laws of Moses before you can be authorised by the priests to persecute the Christians.

i don't have to answer any of your questions, i answer you at discretion and need. How many morons have your questions taught? The bold again is the needless assertion that we see from most antitithers and which is not the truth. i ask if Paul was ever paying tithe, was he? Most antitithers on this forum are of the OPINION that only farmers tithe, and that neither Jesus or His apostles ever tithed. Are you saying Paul was giving tithes before and later stopped? Lets me clear on your stand.

If you agree that Christianity and Judaism existed at the same time,can you please tell us the reason why the were in opposition with each other even though some idiotic minds claim that Jesus did not condem the law.Why was Paul sought after to be killed later on?.Why were the christians maytred if their own practices were in tandem with those who practiced Judaism? Please shed light on these few questions if you can,

Christianity and Judaism were not and are not in opposition with each other. That is akin to saying that the Old Testament and the New testament are in opposition.

Furthermore,In the last two thousand years,tithing is no longer applicable in Israel.There are no longer levite priests nor temples.Each and every christian as a living being is now a temple of God.The Israelite Christians do not pay tithe today because the same history affects them. Can you tell every one in this forum why Nigerians for example must keep an abolished Mosaic law of tithing? Please explain.

i live by the Word of God, not by the happenings in Israel. BTW, antitithers are the ones that insist that Mosaic methods of tithing must be kept. No tither preaches or teaches that. Antithers want us to tithe to Israeli Levites in Jerusalem etc, we say that's not necessary. Get it now?

You also said with infinity that Jesus Tithed.That people who practiced Judaism tithed in the temples,while Jesus' followers tithed in the cities.Can you please name the cities where Jesus' followers tithed?.For your information,Jesus did not tithe because he was a carpenter.Wood workers were exempted from tithing like some other groups too.

What does it mean to say with infinity? Where did i say that Jess tithed? These are questions you can answer i hope. Here is what i said again. Read it carefully this titme. "Tithe was paid in the temple and the cities. Judaism and christianity were also practised in the temple and in the cities. Do you know that Paul the apostle had sacrifices offered for him as a christian?"

Secondly,tithing and burnt offerings were for the remission of sins of the people of Israel and Jesus was without sins and there was no way he could have tithed and stood before sinful priests for confirmation of his burnt offerings acceptance. The only way tithers could perfectly make their claims fit in is to evolve another biblical version of how christians and the judaism practioners cooperated effectively.Only then would it make sense to say that christians tithed the time of the Apostles. Please learn to read and understand the bible clearly and not just quoting out of context.

Please back up these claims with proof or Bible verses.

We just point to the vain hypocrisy of tithers who purport to tithe to fulfil 'all righteousness' yet they can barely keep the tithe Laws.
It all points to the absurdity of Christian tithing. It is supposed to be based on Torah but it is the FURTHEST thing from Torah. It is a mish-mash of convenient verses that demands ignoring and mutilating Torah to support it.

We call it what it really it, a late tradition which is un-scriptural and unsupported by neither OT nor NT.
How would a 400year late tradition find scriptural backing? Did Holy Spirit forget to teach these truths to all those generations of Christians?

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i live by the Word of God, not by the happenings in Israel. BTW, antitithers are the ones that insist that Mosaic methods of tithing must be kept. No tither preaches or teaches that. Antithers want us to tithe to Israeli Levites in Jerusalem etc, we say that's not necessary. Get it now?

chysam:

I think you need some help here because like so many others like you,you no absolutely nothing about the bible and must have based your arguments purely on what your pastor says.

Thanks for trying to help me. However, the little of the absolute nothing that i know is good enough for me and my house.
1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

Contrary to your assertions,God had so much qualm about tithing with money.Infact he advised tithers who lived fart away from areas he he required tithers to bring their tithes to sell their agricultural produce,travel with the money and upon arrival to the place should convert the money back to agricultural produce before tithing.

Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deu 14:27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

Here is one reason why i usually say that new comers should read previous and similar thread topics on this issue. i doubt if the old hands would come up with this lines even as staunch and avowed antitithers. Even the NL forum rules encourage your reading through and research before typing and opening new topics. We've discussed it severally, there were at three DIFFERENT tithes that the Israelites gave. The passage above is one. Verse 28 and 22 make reference to another two types of tithe. The one they were to turn to money due to distance was to be eaten by the tither. It wasn't given OUT/AWAY. Again read me carefully instead of twisting or forcing my words. God never had any qualms with non-agricultural tithes in the Bible.

Furthermore,it is of no business to a follower of jesus if or not the people of the temple tithed.If any one truly believe in christ,he must concern himself only with those things that he taught his followers.A christian has no business with whatever ensued between Jesus and the Pharisees because the Pharisees were never christians and refused to become one even though they had a 110% opportunity to become one.

Again, these are your opininons and you have a right to them. However, stop passing them off as bible or divine instructions.

A sincere christian in matters of tithing should ask himself this question,"Did Jesus teach me about tithing?".The answer is no."Did the apostles teach me about tithing?".The answer again is no.Then who taught me to be paying and receiving tithes?. Draw your answers and reasons from the Christian point of view.If any one foolishly argue that bible is one,both the OT and the NT,then he does not value the death of Christ.IF OT and NT were one,why were the non christians jews in conflict with the followers of christ?.The answer is very simple;because both religion disagree.Christ came with a new doctrine.For example,keeping the Sabbath was Gods law,but jesus broke it.In reality he did not break it,he was actually effecting changes which was clearly one of the reasons he came.Only those who beleived in him partook of those changes and tithing was one of them as is very clear in the scriptures.No Christian leader of jesus and the apostles era received that and every body knows this even todays pastors.So why must he receive tithes if his progenitors did not?. Is he better than them?. I challenege anybody here to tell me that early christians leaders received tithes.If they didn't,what other senseless prove is anybody still looking for?

Your concerns are duly noted. Please, try to express yourself as shortly as possible and at least with Bible verses. That way, it helps your teaching. The healthy way for humans to study the Bible(or anything i suppose) is to have a well rounded view and perspective, as against a one sided or lopsided opinion or perspective. If you want to study anything, topic or person in the Bible, you look at it wholly in making your deductions.
For instance, to study the crucifixion, one should AT LEAST look at all four gospels and their accounts. Then you can bring it together to understand, know and perhaps explain all that happened and that Jesus said on the cross etc. If i just took only Matthew or only Mark and turned a blind bigoted eye on the other gospels and even other correlating scriptures, i would not be doing the best in having a balanced and complete view. i break it down for example in these passages below;

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Mat 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
Mar 15:24 And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Joh 19:24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the Scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

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These 4 verses are saying something that one would/should understand better after considering ALL the four verses. One may come to wrong conclusions using just one of the verses, especially the first three. It's the same basic principle on any topic or subject. For instance, God If you read Genesis, one would/should see that God is the Creator, God is the Judge of the earth etc. But everything about God is not in Genesis. Some other scriptures would bring one to more understanding and perspective, like God is a merciful God, God is Trinity, God is Holy, God is Love etc. It's the same microcosm and principle employed when studying anything in the Bible. You want to study faith, Paul, love, Heaven, angels, tithes. you don't just take one verse and ignore the rest. That is how Bible study is done, or should be done. Try to employ these principles in your studies. i cannot help you much any other way.

vooks:
We just point to the vain hypocrisy of tithers who purport to tithe to fulfil 'all righteousness' yet they can barely keep the tithe Laws.
It all points to the absurdity of Christian tithing. It is supposed to be based on Torah but it is the FURTHEST thing from Torah. It is a mish-mash of convenient verses that demands ignoring and mutilating Torah to support it.

We call it what it really it, a late tradition which is un-scriptural and unsupported by neither OT nor NT.
How would a 400year late tradition find scriptural backing? Did Holy Spirit forget to teach these truths to all those generations of Christians?

Thankfully, God has not made you his customs duty officer. Christians don't need you as mediator or interface between them and God. You are in no position to dictate what Christians must give God. God is not complaining, neither is He mocked. It is self appointed customs worker without pay who have issues, telling others "No, no no, don't bring this one to God, bring that one instead". BRING YE ALL THE TITHES.

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Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

..and the Pharisee in Luke 18 is ya role model? Lol!

Zikkyy:


..and the Pharisee in Luke 18 is ya role model? Lol!

That's very obvious na don't mind the hypocrite.

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Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

That scripture is a valid history evidence that shows jews tithed of more than just agric produce.

It is not about what the jews did but about what they were instructed to do. Did God command the Jews to fast twice a week? the answer is NO! Did God command the Jews to tithe of all they possess? the answer is No! The pharisee went beyond the command of the Lord to tithe agric produce by tithing all his possession just to show he is better (holier) than others. read him in 18:11.....

11[b]The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. [/b]12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

Working hard to impress the Lord ehn? am happy to read that Jesus was not impressed..... and to think that the pharisee is ya role model?

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Thanks for trying to help me. However, the little of the absolute nothing that i know is good enough for me and my house.
1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.



Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deu 14:27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

Here is one reason why i usually say that new comers should read previous and similar thread topics on this issue. i doubt if the old hands would come up with this lines even as staunch and avowed antitithers. Even the NL forum rules encourage your reading through and research before typing and opening new topics. We've discussed it severally, there were at three DIFFERENT tithes that the Israelites gave. The passage above is one. Verse 28 and 22 make reference to another two types of tithe. The one they were to turn to money due to distance was to be eaten by the tither. It wasn't given OUT/AWAY. Again read me carefully instead of twisting or forcing my words. God never had any qualms with non-agricultural tithes in the Bible.




Again, these are your opininons and you have a right to them. However, stop passing them off as bible or divine instructions.



Your concerns are duly noted. Please, try to express yourself as shortly as possible and at least with Bible verses. That way, it helps your teaching. The healthy way for humans to study the Bible(or anything i suppose) is to have a well rounded view and perspective, as against a one sided or lopsided opinion or perspective. If you want to study anything, topic or person in the Bible, you look at it wholly in making your deductions.
For instance, to study the crucifixion, one should AT LEAST look at all four gospels and their accounts. Then you can bring it together to understand, know and perhaps explain all that happened and that Jesus said on the cross etc. If i just took only Matthew or only Mark and turned a blind bigoted eye on the other gospels and even other correlating scriptures, i would not be doing the best in having a balanced and complete view. i break it down for example in these passages below;

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Mat 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
Mar 15:24 And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Joh 19:24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the Scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

---

These 4 verses are saying something that one would/should understand better after considering ALL the four verses. One may come to wrong conclusions using just one of the verses, especially the first three. It's the same basic principle on any topic or subject. For instance, God If you read Genesis, one would/should see that God is the Creator, God is the Judge of the earth etc. But everything about God is not in Genesis. Some other scriptures would bring one to more understanding and perspective, like God is a merciful God, God is Trinity, God is Holy, God is Love etc. It's the same microcosm and principle employed when studying anything in the Bible. You want to study faith, Paul, love, Heaven, angels, tithes. you don't just take one verse and ignore the rest. That is how Bible study is done, or should be done. Try to employ these principles in your studies. i cannot help you much any other way.

Even bible references will not help your understanding so far.You muddle up issues and argue more like an attorney on judicial contract;quick to anger even without provocation and capable of exhibiting temparamental stuffs. Just look at your defence of monetary tithing above. What exactly were you trying to prove?.The passage being very clear even to a goat.Read the concluding part of that instruction again,and see what happened when the tithers arrived with their money.

Can you differenciate between a Pharisee and a follower of christ?. Whatever differences you find between them is also applicable to the issue of tithe.They were strictly in opposition with each other and the christians were being persecuted and killed by them.Now ask yoursself why a judaism faithful would go after his colleague who equally obey their laws and also paid tithes as they did. By Gods grace,someday your eyes and others will open to the truth.