₦airaland Forum

vooks:
her gender is not important. Don't push it. Am quite fine but I could do with a jailbroken iPhone 6+, so if you are led don't hesitate to do the needful

This hypocrite was telling Bidam not to talk less of women on November 7. Meanwhile the pretender knows that i am male, it is clearly indicated, and Gombs had earlier corrected him thinking he did not know. That was after he called me a she in october. He apologized then but can a leopard change his spots? It adds nothing to me on whether i am called a woman or a man, or any other name. Unfortunately, vooks thinks calling me a woman is derogatory and an insult. My handle remains Image123(m), i wonder why any professing christian would call anyone Mrs Dumbo Obtuse Esq. Go and visit calvary and obtain grace that delivers from hypocrisy, you have more issues than arguing about prosperity or tithes.

shdemidemi:
Quote of the entire thread.

Lol, oga na wetin dey pain you na?

shdemidemi:
Good morning my dear brother.

You are completely free to claim and usurp all of the promises in the Old Testament save the curses.

You image123 can as well rub off the name of Abraham and be the father of many nations. Head up to Moses and claim his blessings too. take a swift swerve to the Jewish nation, claim their blessings as well. Don't forget the blessing of David and that of Saul.

Whatever you do don't claim that of Jesus though, I am sure you know how He and and his disciples concluded their service. Moreover, there are no money or wealth accumulation promises in the epistles so steer clear of Paul.

demisquare my good friend. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. He did not redeem us from the blessings of the Lord. The blessings of the Lord makes RICH. Here is the verse again, notice the bold part well well.
Galat 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galat 3:14 That the blessing of ABRAHAM might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Abraham's blessings are not only spiritual. BTW, one big question. Do you know the curses of the law? Can you list 5 or 7 curses of the law?

What sort of God says this sef-
Romans 8
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; [size=24pt]if so be that we suffer with him[/size], that we may be also glorified together.

That's my God. Read it again, especailly the bold part.
Romans8v17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that [size=24pt]we may be also glorified together[/size].

That is the same God that said we were supposed to REIGN in life.'
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign IN LIFE by one, Jesus Christ)

You really do not want me to start quoting what God has said, even NT only. You don't really want me to start.

Image123, how can! Tell God you don't lick blood soaked hand o, na Palm oil hand u want. Suffer ke! When promises dey. Abeg make we go search for promises to stand on for Old Testament my brother.. Abi?

i'm calling the mfm crew on you. So you are one of dem blood licking blood suckers? Take cover, my advice.

vooks:
Taking God's Word as it is means reading the context,addressee and so forth before blowing hot air. Literalism borders on extremism and that's why we had Inquisition. It breeds zeal for God that is not according to knowledge/intelligence/wisdom...in other words foolishness

God is not a liar.

Matthew 19:29 Amplified Bible (AMP)
29 And anyone and everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for My name’s sake will receive [a]many [even a hundred] times more and will inherit eternal life.
Do you believe what Jesus said here?

No, on the contrary "revelations" is what breeds doctrines of devils like the one your friend said about the serpent sleeping with eve. but on the other hand you accuse me of literalism why you still fail to give your own version of the scripture i quoted. so pls go ahead and provide your "revelation" on those scripture i quoted and stop digressing with irrelevancies and blowing hot air all over the place.

vooks:
If your unintelligent understanding of that verse is the Truth (it is not) the righteous (Christians) should live longer, get wealthier and basically healthier over non-believers

Atleast your added lies at the bold. Ok so tell us your own version or revelation mr intelligent conformist.

Why would you misquote my moniker and paraphrase a verse and ascribe it to me?
Only if you are all I said and more.

Why do I keep on calling you a woman? I have no idea, I mistake your moniker or style for somebody else. Profuse apologies once again

Image123:
This hypocrite was telling Bidam not to talk less of women on November 7. Meanwhile the pretender knows that i am male, it is clearly indicated, and Gombs had earlier corrected him thinking he did not know. That was after he called me a she in october. He apologized then but can a leopard change his spots? It adds nothing to me on whether i am called a woman or a man, or any other name. Unfortunately, vooks thinks calling me a woman is derogatory and an insult. My handle remains Image123(m), i wonder why any professing christian would call anyone Mrs Dumbo Obtuse Esq. Go and visit calvary and obtain grace that delivers from hypocrisy, you have more issues than arguing about prosperity or tithes.

Bidam:
No, just exposing your sickness and disease.

Oh... you are so welcome.

Candour:
I thought Gombs 'proved' vooks and shdemidemi are one and the same? What is the reason then for this internal argument Abi somebody is arguing with himself?

You brodas shouldn't make me get angry with you 'both' o

I dey laff o!

shdemidemi:
1) the primary purpose of Christianity is to herald the message of God. Suffering happens to be part of that deal.
2 Tim 4
2 Preach the message, [size=22pt]be ready whether it is convenient or not[/size], reprove, rebuke, exhort with complete patience and instruction. 3 For there will be a time when people will not tolerate sound teaching. Instead, following their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves, because they have an insatiable curiosity to hear new things. 4 And they will turn away from hearing the truth, but on the other hand they will turn aside to myths. 5 You, however, be self-controlled in all things, [size=22pt]endure hardship[/size], do an evangelist’s work, fulfill your ministry.

The commission in Mark 16 was given to authenticate and it served as a link to what is to become the church: body of Christ built on GRACE

2) God is a God of providence. He is the God who knows the end right from the beginning. It was never by Paul's power nor that of Peter nor their ability that they wrought the miracles, It was God working through them.

Like I said earlier, if it were to be by their power, no one would have killed them the way they died.

3) God stopped raining Manna from heaven the day He chose a new people for Himself. There is a difference between those He led by pillar of fire and wall of cloud and those He is leading by His Spirit today.

The Israelites were God's earthly people, they did not have any spiritual promise. It was not about hell or heaven in the Old Testament, it was all about instant death and destruction or God's wealth and mercy.

For us(the church) today, we have a spiritual promise through Jesus.

4) Mrs Alakija is the one wearing the shoes, only her can tell where it hurts. Our sufferings are relative my brother.

I don't think there are words to describe what heaven will be like.

I don't see how this responds to my questions. You said Christ's promise is spiritual ONLY and I disagree. I have shown verses that say they are Physical as well. What you should do is show me verses saying the blessings are ONLY spiritual.

Secondly, you said what we are waiting for in Heaven is a life of wealth and health there. And I asked you wjy we need them in heaven seeing that there would be no traders in there neither will there be mosquitoes to cause Malaria etc and you didn't answer me.

Thirdly, if you want the scriptures I can show them to you. The Apostles said they healed by the name of Jesus and by their faith in the name. You said it was the era, yet you cannot prove it from scripture. Your statement that if they had power they would not have died is flawed because Jesus told them they would be killed for the gospel. The same Jesus told them that they would have POWER as soon as the Holy Spirit comes upon them. Logic entails that as long as the Holy Spirit remains in them the power would be there, agree?

So where is your cessation theory coming from?

As per Mrs Folorunso Alakija, I mentioned her to show you that I can play that game as well. You guys like to call Billionaire Atheists to argue that if it were God who gives wealth, they wouldn't be rich (I don't know whoever said so). All we have said is that God has the power to make anyone rich and if God blesses you, you will be rich and in health etc.

Mrs Folorunso like any other christian is waiting for the redemption of her body- the Immortal body. That's what we are waiting for. She's not waiting for health and wealth in heaven where she would not need it.

2 Corinthians 9:10 KJV

Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

christemmbassey:
thank you sir, pls explain in context as to whether it is a doctrine. Remain blessf.

Paul was admonishing his members to remember the gift of money that they promised to give to him so he could continue his ministry work part of which was giving to other poor churches. So he explained to them the necessity of giving as one desires but not grudgingly and under duress. He reminded them that one would receive a harvest for the seed sown based on how liberal or withdrawn was when they gave. His actual words were 'if you give little you will receive little. And if you give large you will receive large'. Then he explained the Harvest they were to expect which is:

1. ALL Grace will abound towards them
2. The unmerited favor will make them be very good at anything and everything they do.
3. They will always have enough to help others and themselves.
4. Their righteousness will remain forever.

The verse above I quoted is the clincher. Paul said God who gives people the 'seed' (raw material) to sow will also give them the bread to eat (harvest) even as he MULTIPLIES their seed sown and increases the FRUITS of their righteousness. Meaning Endurance, patience, Joy, love, longsuffering, faith, gentleness, temperance etc which are the FRUITS of the recreated human spirit (that was created in righteousness) will become more pronounced in such a person's life as well.

Compendre?

mbaemeka:
As per Mrs Folorunso Alakija, I mentioned her to show you that I can play that game as well. You guys like to call Billionaire Atheists to argue that if it were God who gives wealth, they wouldn't be rich (I don't know whoever said so). All we have said is that God has the power to make anyone rich and if God blesses you, you will be rich and in health etc.

Mrs Folorunso like any other christian is waiting for the redemption of her body- the Immortal body. That's what we are waiting for. She's not waiting for health and wealth in heaven where she would not need it.

@the bolded, if only the pastors who shout the lie that a man can't be prosperous without sowing into the kingdom (their ministries are of course the best way to do this) really believe this. God pours blessings on all mankind, not just Christians. See what Christ said below

Matthew 5:45 KJV
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Any madman not afraid to pull the trigger of a gun and shed blood can be a billionaire (eg Tompolo, Ateke and Asari), it doesn't mean anything. God sends rain both on the just and the unjust. God allowed them. Any tailor (Alakija) with the right connections (maryam Babangida) can become an oil well owner and a billionaire, God gave the chance. Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or Mark Zuckerberg wouldnt be where they are today if God didn't allow them the chance. This is the truth no matter how much they deny his existence. This is why I'll always stand firm on the truth that money or lack of it proves and means nothing, absolutely nothing at all with respect to a man's spiritual standing. Christ said a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things he possesses.

If its mammon, the world will always beat the Christian in its acquisition. No one needs Christ to make money despite the lies we hear from some mog regularly. What is impossible to get without Christ is salvation from sin leading to eternal life and that is what should stand Alakija out, not her billions whether they are tainted or not.

If you're blessed with health or wealth, thank God for you. The satanist next door probably has them too maybe in bigger proportions than you. What is important is the imputed righteousness of Christ open only to those who come to Christ. This is the only thing that distinguishes a Christian from the world.

Candour:
@the bolded, if only the pastors who shout the lie that a man can't be prosperous without sowing into the kingdom (their ministries are of course the best way to do this) really believe this. God pours blessings on all mankind, not just Christians. See what Christ said below

Matthew 5:45 KJV
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Any madman not afraid to pull the trigger of a gun and shed blood can be a billionaire (eg Tompolo, Ateke and Asari), it doesn't mean anything. God sends rain both on the just and the unjust. God allowed them. Any tailor (Alakija) with the right connections (maryam Babangida) can become an oil well owner and a billionaire, God gave the chance. Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or Mark Zuckerberg wouldnt be where they are today if God didn't allow them the chance. This is the truth no matter how much they deny his existence. This is why I'll always stand firm on the truth that money or lack of it proves and means nothing, absolutely nothing at all with respect to a man's spiritual standing. Christ said a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things he possesses.

If its mammon, the world will always beat the Christian in its acquisition. No one needs Christ to make money despite the lies we hear from some mog regularly. What is impossible to get without Christ is salvation from sin leading to eternal life and that is what should stand Alakija out, not her billions whether they are tainted or not.

If you're blessed with health or wealth, thank God for you. The satanist next door probably has them too maybe in bigger proportions than you. What is important is the imputed righteousness of Christ open only to those who come to Christ. This is the only thing that distinguishes a Christian from the world.

This is what we have been saying but the traders and fraudsters hiding in christianity refuse to hear,to them God is a trader, christianity has become a religion of the sick, the barren, poor, the oppressed, the never do wells, those in prison and the afflicted. I remember having attended church for more thana year and not go for counselling, the pastor was so annoyed and accused me of pretending and covering up, saying that no onecan live without problem that I was trying to prove that I don't need pastor. i wonder, what type of christianity is these? God will help us. God bless you brother.

mbaemeka:
2 Corinthians 9:10 KJV

Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness




Paul was admonishing his members to remember the gift of money that they promised to give to him so he could continue his ministry work part of which was giving to other poor churches. So he explained to them the necessity of giving as one desires but not grudgingly and under duress. He reminded them that one would receive a harvest for the seed sown based on how liberal or withdrawn was when they gave. His actual words were 'if you give little you will receive little. And if you give large you will receive large'. Then he explained the Harvest they were to expect which is:

1. ALL Grace will abound towards them
2. The unmerited favor will make them be very good at anything and everything they do.
3. They will always have enough to help others and themselves.
4. Their righteousness will remain forever.

The verse above I quoted is the clincher. Paul said God who gives people the 'seed' (raw material) to sow will also give them the bread to eat (harvest) even as he MULTIPLIES their seed sown and increases the FRUITS of their righteousness. Meaning Endurance, patience, Joy, love, longsuffering, faith, gentleness, temperance etc which are the FRUITS of the recreated human spirit (that was created in righteousness) will become more pronounced in such a person's life as well.

Compendre?

@ the bolded, so if I do not give money to a pastor, I can not benefit all ur mentioned blessings? pls can I understand more with reference to 2Peter 1:2-3, .. Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
3. According as His Divine power HATH GIVEN TO USALL THINGS that pertain to life and godliness through the knowledgeof him who hath call us to glory and virtue.

Question: do we give to get blessed or we give bc we are blessed?


Again, I will also like to point out that Paul was not primarily concerned about himself but the saints, unlike todays pastors who will collect from poor church members to expand their greed. why are they opening schools in Uk? is it to help the poor saint in UK? ok the schools they opened in Nigeria , is it to help the poor saints in Nigeria?, some of them have up to 4 jets, shares is blue chip coys, hotels, estates, fleets of jeeps etc etc, is it part of the ministry work? how many time have they raise money for the saints? today, the saints in Northern Nigeria are going through great aflictions in d hand of d evil boko haram, how many times have they raise offerings for the orphans, widows, the maimed and the traumatised? have the cared to send relief? what will a church from Nigeria be doing building schools in UK? is this right?

Finally, the letterof Paul in 2Cor9 is never a priscribtion for sowing of money, it makes God a trader and money doubler, which he is not. Bless you.

Candour:
@the bolded, if only the pastors who shout the lie that a man can't be prosperous without sowing into the kingdom (their ministries are of course the best way to do this) really believe this. God pours blessings on all mankind, not just Christians. See what Christ said below

Matthew 5:45 KJV
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Any madman not afraid to pull the trigger of a gun and shed blood can be a billionaire (eg Tompolo, Ateke and Asari), it doesn't mean anything. God sends rain both on the just and the unjust. God allowed them. Any tailor (Alakija) with the right connections (maryam Babangida) can become an oil well owner and a billionaire, God gave the chance. Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or Mark Zuckerberg wouldnt be where they are today if God didn't allow them the chance. This is the truth no matter how much they deny his existence. This is why I'll always stand firm on the truth that money or lack of it proves and means nothing, absolutely nothing at all with respect to a man's spiritual standing. Christ said a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things he possesses.

If its mammon, the world will always beat the Christian in its acquisition. No one needs Christ to make money despite the lies we hear from some mog regularly. What is impossible to get without Christ is salvation from sin leading to eternal life and that is what should stand Alakija out, not her billions whether they are tainted or not.

If you're blessed with health or wealth, thank God for you. The satanist next door probably has them too maybe in bigger proportions than you. What is important is the imputed righteousness of Christ open only to those who come to Christ. This is the only thing that distinguishes a Christian from the world.

I agree with most if not all you have said above. What I was trying to say to my brother is that righteousness and salvation from sin or even having a sound mind isn't ONLY what we inherited from God through Christ's death. God's ability or desire to help his children get wealth and health has not ceased as a result, if anything it persists and has even increased. What will be extreme is for people to say that Christ does not give us wealth and so we have to get it on our own. Another extreme will be that we can ONLY get it through Christ. The truth remains that for anyone to be considered truly rich in God's eyes it will have to be by God's help and in service to God. It is the same with health, security, soundness of mind etc. Someone can say as long as I have my security guards in check I am safe- I don't need security from Christ (and in the physical he might appear safe)

Psalm 127 King James Version (KJV)
1 Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

This verse for e.g does not say that the men won't build the house or that the watchmen won't watch it, just that they would do it in vain. In other words, at the end of the day, it would amount to nothing in God's eyes.

christemmbassey:
@ the bolded, so if I do not give money to a pastor, I can not benefit all ur mentioned blessings?

I never said so.

pls can I understand more with reference to 2Peter 1:2-3, .. Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
3. According as His Divine power HATH GIVEN TO USALL THINGS that pertain to life and godliness through the knowledgeof him who hath call us to glory and virtue.

There is a disparity between Grace being multiplied and ALL grace accruing to someone. 2 Corinthians 9 referred to the latter. Also 2 Peter said he has given us all things that pertain to life. . .through the knowledge of Jesus and that is true. But 2 Corinthians 9 said out of the all things that pertain to life which for e.g, Grace is. God will now give you the full measure of the grace and this is by giving.

Question: do we give to get blessed or we give bc we are blessed?

Use rope, tie goat. Use goat, tie rope. All na the same: so that the goat no go run comot. If you give you will be blessed and when you are blessed you would give.

Finally, the letter of Paul in 2Cor9 is never a priscribtion for sowing of money, it makes God a trader and money doubler, which he is not. Bless you.

God is definitely not a money doubler or a trader, but if anyone sows they will reap. Regardless of what they sow and the bible says it is the same God that gives one the seed to sow that will provide the harvest as well. Bless you too.

mbaemeka:
I don't see how this responds to my questions. You said Christ's promise is spiritual ONLY and I disagree. I have shown verses that say they are Physical as well. What you should do is show me verses saying the blessings are ONLY spiritual.

Please show me where Christ say we will have money because He died.

Paul allude to the fact all through his epistles to the church. One of such instances was when he unveiled all that would have mattered before he came in to Christ
Phil 3:5
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.


These things were valuable to an average JEW, Paul equated all his achievements in the flesh as dunk. He described every member of the body of Christ as-

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

mbaemeka:
Secondly, you said what we are waiting for in Heaven is a life of wealth and health there. And I asked you wjy we need them in heaven seeing that there would be no traders in there neither will there be mosquitoes to cause Malaria etc and you didn't answer me.

I said I can't describe what the place will be like, but I liken it to the garden of Eden before the curse. A place where Jesus will rule as king, a place where God says will be far glorious than our present suffering, regardless of what the suffering in the world may be. I also believe there will be saints with stars, as such there will be hierarchy.

I don't know about traders, all I know is that there wouldn't be sickness or lack.

mbaemeka:
Thirdly, if you want the scriptures I can show them to you. The Apostles said they healed by the name of Jesus and by their faith in the name.

Where we might have issues is the definition of FAITH. The object of their faith is God and not how much they can work their mind to do the miraculous.

The miracles happened because it had been endorsed by heaven even before Peter and Paul were born.

mbaemeka:
You said it was the era, yet you cannot prove it from scripture.

May be all I am saying just wouldn't resonate in your mind, for reasons best known to you. A typical example is Elijah. Elijah was annointed of God but he did not have absolute power hence why he ran away from Jezebel.

These apostles never had absolute power to be used as they deemed fit. They were constantly used by the Holy Spirit all through penteost to authenticate the message of Christ.

mbaemeka:
Your statement that if they had power they would not have died is flawed because Jesus told them they would be killed for the gospel.

When did Jesus tell them they will all be killed the way they got killed?

mbaemeka:
The same Jesus told them that they would have POWER as soon as the Holy Spirit comes upon them. Logic entails that as long as the Holy Spirit remains in them the power would be there, agree?

It is a principle in the bible because of man's unbelief. Every time a message was to be revealed by God, a sign back such message up. Moses was enabled to perform miracles to authenticate his ministry before Pharaoh. Elijah was given miracles to authenticate his ministry before Ahab. The apostles were given miracles by the Holy Spirit to authenticate their ministry before Israel. The sign has never been the message in itself all through scriptures.

mbaemeka:
As per Mrs Folorunso Alakija, I mentioned her to show you that I can play that game as well. You guys like to call Billionaire Atheists to argue that if it were God who gives wealth, they wouldn't be rich (I don't know whoever said so). [size=24pt]All we have said is that God has the power to make anyone rich[/size] and if God blesses you, you will be rich and in health etc..

God definitely has the power to bless anyone with riches, but the idea that He will give you good health simply because He gave you riches is unfounded. I repeat, only the lady can tell you how unsatisfied she is within her spirit.

No one has it all, there is always something we are yet to achieve. The root of the problem isn't money but the fall of man. The pleasantness and the delight we had in Eden is what we gradually try to replace by alternatives to replace that sense of loss; thinking we can get back to having delight and pleasantness. We derive this through things like alcoholism, sex, drugs, shopping, money etc. There is that tendency to restore us back to Eden, not through God but through the human manufacture of pleasure, from darkness which we have become. We have tried to restore Eden but every attempt brings frustration and ends us up in more darkness, worse than our previous state.

mbaemeka:
Mrs Folorunso like any other christian is waiting for the redemption of her body- the Immortal body. That's what we are waiting for. She's not waiting for health and wealth in heaven where she would not need it.

If we have to look at this life deeply, we would realize how discontent we as a people will be because nothing satisfies our deepest desires, our hopes eventually will fail us. Our deepest desires are insatiable; they are inconsolable, indelible because NOTHING SATISFIES but we live in denial refusing to admit the level of our discontentment as though money can fill the gap.

A writer once said, “But in contentment I still feel the need for imperishable bliss”, this is because OUR DESIRES ARE DEEPER THAN WE THINK.

shdemidemi:
Please show me where Christ say we will have money wealth because He died.

Galatians 3:13-14King James Version (KJV)

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Paul allude to the fact all through his epistles to the church. One of such instances was when he unveiled all that would have mattered before he came in to Christ
Phil 3:5
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.


These things were valuable to an average JEW, Paul equated all his achievements in the flesh as dunk. He described every member of the body of Christ as-

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Misquoted. To walk in faith one must subject or disregard the flesh. It has nothing to do with health or wealth.

1 Timothy 4:8King James Version (KJV)
8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

The gospel benefits us in this physical world AND the spiritual world to come- Paul.

I said I can't describe what the place will be like, but I liken it to the garden of Eden before the curse. A place where Jesus will rule as king, a place where God says will be far glorious than our present suffering, regardless of what the suffering in the world may be. I also believe there will be saints with stars, as such there will be hierarchy.

I don't know about traders, all I know is that there wouldn't be sickness or lack.

I agree. That's why I asked what health and wealth will be needed for there when we know there won't be any lack or the consciousness of it.

Where we might have issues is the definition of FAITH. The object of their faith is God and not how much they can work their mind to do the miraculous.

The miracles happened because it had been endorsed by heaven even before Peter and Paul were born.

They have already defined faith for us. Faith is substantiating what we hope for and making it real. If I hope for someone to get well, faith is what makes it happen.

Listen to Peter: Acts 3,

12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

All christian faith is in God or his word for they are one. Jesus (the word) had told them earlier on that when he ascends if they demanded anything in his name, he will see to it that it is done. Now he has ascended and they know it so they acted on his word (which is the definition of faith) and they used his name and the man got a miracle. I will put a period here.

May be all I am saying just wouldn't resonate in your mind, for reasons best known to you. A typical example is Elijah. Elijah was annointed of God but he did not have absolute power hence why he ran away from Jezebel.

These apostles never had absolute power to be used as they deemed fit. They were constantly used by the Holy Spirit all through penteost to authenticate the message of Christ

This is a diversion. How does this say anything about an era? Has Jesus name lost it's power?

When did Jesus tell them they will all be killed the way they got killed?

The emboldened is dressing probably aimed at digressing the discourse. I said "Jesus told them they would be killed for the gospel". How they were going to be killed adds nothing to his prophecy.

It is a principle in the bible because of man's unbelief. Every time a message was to be revealed by God, a sign back such message up. Moses was enabled to perform miracles to authenticate his ministry before Pharaoh. Elijah was given miracles to authenticate his ministry before Ahab. The apostles were given miracles by the Holy Spirit to authenticate their ministry before Israel. The sign has never been the message in itself all through scriptures.

Did Moses' miracles end? Did the miracles wrought by Elijah end? Where did Jesus say the "signs" to the disciples will end? I will need 2 scriptures to corroborate this.

God definitely has the power to bless anyone with riches

GOOD. So the ability and willingness remains in tact.

mbaemeka:
I agree with most if not all you have said above. What I was trying to say to my brother is that righteousness and salvation from sin or even having a sound mind isn't ONLY what we inherited from God through Christ's death. God's ability or desire to help his children get wealth and health has not ceased as a result, if anything it persists and has even increased. What will be extreme is for people to say that Christ does not give us wealth and so we have to get it on our own. Another extreme will be that we can ONLY get it through Christ.

OK more or less.

The truth remains that for anyone to be considered truly rich in God's eyes it will have to be by God's help and in service to God.

The question then comes: what is "true riches" in God's eyes? Forbes has their rich list where folks like Alakija, Gates, Dangote and Oyedepo feature. Is their yardstick the same as God's?

James 2:5 KJV
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Will God regard Alakija a better rich woman than those James described above as rich in faith?

It is the same with health, security, soundness of mind etc. Someone can say as long as I have my security guards in check I am safe- I don't need security from Christ (and in the physical he might appear safe)

Psalm 127 King James Version (KJV)
1 Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

This verse for e.g does not say that the men won't build the house or that the watchmen won't watch it, just that they would do it in vain. In other words, at the end of the day, it would amount to nothing in God's eyes.

Of course except God does it, man will only strive in vain. The medical breakthroughs that have saved millions around the world are evidence of God's goodness to not only us Christians but also Muslims, pagans, atheists etc and he uses all sorts of people to do them. Whether the Muslims in Dubai acknowledge it or not, God gave them the wisdom to arrange their country almost perfectly that prompts Christians like you and I to flock there for holidays.

God's sovereignty in all spheres is incomprehensible and incontestable. Except God decides, even the prayer warrior or faith proponent will only exercise in vain.

Excellent submission

Matthew 9:5 (KJV)
And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? 5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? 6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7 And he arose, and departed to his house

There is something to be had here. Jesus is saying that healing is far much easier than forgiveness of sins and since He had already forgiven the man's sins, He could easily heal him and He did to prove it. The point I bring out is it is really not difficult for Jesus to meet our material needs ( healing,wealth and all) and the fact that he forgives us should be proof.

But we never see the much easier material needs being overly emphasized. Instead, the focus is on the spiritual. The danger I see is Christians who equate the spiritual and material needs' ease of being met in Christ. The argument is, if I can pray and recieve forgiveness NOW,why can't I aks and get a car NOW yet a car is nothing compared to forgiveness of my sins before God?

mbaemeka:
I agree with most if not all you have said above. What I was trying to say to my brother is that righteousness and salvation from sin or even having a sound mind isn't ONLY what we inherited from God through Christ's death. God's ability or desire to help his children get wealth and health has not ceased as a result, if anything it persists and has even increased. What will be extreme is for people to say that Christ does not give us wealth and so we have to get it on our own. Another extreme will be that we can ONLY get it through Christ. The truth remains that for anyone to be considered truly rich in God's eyes it will have to be by God's help and in service to God. It is the same with health, security, soundness of mind etc. Someone can say as long as I have my security guards in check I am safe- I don't need security from Christ (and in the physical he might appear safe)

Psalm 127 King James Version (KJV)
1 Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

This verse for e.g does not say that the men won't build the house or that the watchmen won't watch it, just that they would do it in vain. In other words, at the end of the day, it would amount to nothing in God's eyes.

[url=this] http://youtube.com/watch?v=cnmSYzqE_xE&itct=CBsQpDAYAyITCKPo2bqY98ECFQOYfgodc40AODIGcmVsbWZ1SPWikau0x_ax_wE%3D&hl=en&client=mv-google&gl=NG [/url] is nice

Image123:
[url=this] http://youtube.com/watch?v=cnmSYzqE_xE&itct=CBsQpDAYAyITCKPo2bqY98ECFQOYfgodc40AODIGcmVsbWZ1SPWikau0x_ax_wE%3D&hl=en&client=mv-google&gl=NG [/url] is nice

Bless you for this video, sin is actually deceptive with so many erroneous teachings going on the internet these days one needs to be really careful.

Bidam:
Bless you for this video, sin is actually deceptive with so many erroneous teachings going on the internet these days one needs to be really careful.

Wow!
Thanks image! Whenever I see that man...Papa Idahosa comes to my mind...you need feel the energy that runs through me.

Gombs:
Wow!
Thanks image! Whenever I see that man...Papa Idahosa comes to my mind...you need feel the energy that runs through me.

Bidam:
Bless you for this video, sin is actually deceptive with so many erroneous teachings going on the internet these days one needs to be really careful.

Image123:
[url=this] http://youtube.com/watch?v=cnmSYzqE_xE&itct=CBsQpDAYAyITCKPo2bqY98ECFQOYfgodc40AODIGcmVsbWZ1SPWikau0x_ax_wE%3D&hl=en&client=mv-google&gl=NG [/url] is nice

Now, I look at the entire congregation, I see none that will see God by the doctrine of Oyedepo... A doctrine of holiness by ones ability to resist sin through some energy he calls 'grace'. This man teaches a deplorable message that says you have the ability within you to meet God's standard of godliness. The sort of righteousness Israel religiously sought.
Romans 10
10 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God on behalf of my fellow Israelites is for their salvation. 2 For I can testify that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not in line with the truth. 3 For ignoring the righteousness that comes from God, [size=24pt]and seeking instead to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. [/size]4 For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness for everyone who believes.

I will rather follow the doctrine of Paul that clearly states how I got saved-
Romans 3
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God (although it is attested by the law and the prophets) has been disclosed— 22 [size=22pt]namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe[/size]. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 24 But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 25 God publicly displayed him at his death as the mercy seat accessible through faith. This was to demonstrate his righteousness, because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed. 26 This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus’ faithfulness.

This message through the power of God teaches me from within to do that which is according to the book and not an outward change through legalism that will always lead one to frustration.

shdemidemi:
Now, I look at the entire congregation, I see none that will see God by the doctrine of Oyedepo... A doctrine of holiness by ones ability to resist sin through some energy he calls 'grace'. This man teaches a deplorable message that says you have the ability within you to meet God standard of godliness. The sort of righteousness Israel religiously sought.
Romans 10
10 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God on behalf of my fellow Israelites is for their salvation. 2 For I can testify that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not in line with the truth. 3 For ignoring the righteousness that comes from God, [size=24pt]and seeking instead to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. [/size]4 For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness for everyone who believes.

I will rather follow the doctrine of Paul that clearly states how I got saved-
Romans 3
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God (although it is attested by the law and the prophets) has been disclosed— 22 namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. 24 But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 25 God publicly displayed him at his death as the mercy seat accessible through faith. This was to demonstrate his righteousness, because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed. 26 This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus’ faithfulness.

This message through the power of God teaches me from within to do that which is according to the book and not an outward change through legalism that will always lead one to frustration.

What folly and nonsensical nonsense are you yapping about? Did you actually watch the video you false teacher?

Bidam:
What folly and nonsensical nonsense are you yapping about? Did you actually watch the video you false teacher?

I did watch the video Mr bidam.... How does the video change what scripture says?

shdemidemi:
I did watch the video Mr bidam.... How does the video change what scripture says?

Don't mind him. Instead of looking at scripture he would rather look for ways to cause distraction.
Let's see if he will answer your question.

shdemidemi:
I did watch the video Mr bidam.... How does the video change what scripture says?

And how do you compare what he quoted in scriptures with the irrelevancies you quoted up there?

trustman:
Don't mind him. Instead of looking at scripture he would rather look for ways to cause distraction.
Let's see if he will answer your question.

And a vulture troll always there to take sides. I don't blame you, after the babagnoni debacle your mind is full of bitterness and strife cos i exposed who you really are behind the mask. A hypocrite and a back stabber.

Bidam:
And how do you compare what he quoted in scriptures with the irrelevancies you quoted up there?

If only you can see how predictable you have become. I await the original poster to defend the hogwash presented as God's word in that video.

shdemidemi:
If only you can see how predictable you have become. I await the original poster to defend the hogwash presented as God's word in that video.

Stop talking trash and quote the scripture in the video then bring a counter scripture to debunk what he quoted( that is if you really watched the video, instead of fooling around and fooling gullible folks here.)

Bidam:
Stop talking trash and quote the scripture in the video then bring a counter scripture to debunk what he quoted( that is if you really watched the video, instead of fooling around and fooling gullible folks here.)

Its about time one starts responding to only serious and sound minded people.

Imagine!You expect me to quote and counter quote oyedepo so you can wave all I say with one worthless sentence. Gone are those days I will take Bidam that seriously.

Bidam:
And a vulture troll always there to take sides. I don't blame you, after the babagnoni debacle your mind is full of bitterness and strife cos i exposed who you really are behind the mask. A hypocrite and a back stabber.

Obviously your twisted mind is working against you. Is your recall being affected?