₦airaland Forum

plaetton:
@Deepsight.

Ok, here we go.


See what I mean ? This an example of complex ignorance.
There is already something called science . Science is not an elite social club. Everyone freely participates in discovery of the many mysteries of the universe.
What Uyi should say is that the complexity of the universe requires vigorous investigation and enquiry.

plaetton:
The existence of the universe does not demand an explanation ,because we don't have, and may never have all the facts, all the mathematical corrolations that correspond to every phenomena.
BUt gosh, we can go as far as possible to establish whatever facts or truths that we can grasp, all the while refraining from invoking magic god-did-it whenever we are stuck.

plaetton:
You can immediately see where he is heading when he makes such obtuse statements. He is heading straight to sunday school.
Every illogical argument on this op leads straight to sunday school. That's why I considered it wasteful to indulge him.


The above word salad IS NOT Edible, at all.

The above has to count as the most MEANINGLESS assemblage of words I have ever encountered. Seriously.
Deeepsight, is this dude trying to be like you, creating infinite universes with mere word salads ?
Abeg, teach him better.

plaetton:
Another assemblage of incongruent , non edible word salads.

Here, he uses the word " codes" to make three consecutive statements, without first telling us what exactly he means by a code.
If he defines what a code really is, then we can accept or challenge him on whether [b]natural processes or magical processes [/b]are responsible for codes.

To be honest, it really annoys me when someone patches ups meaningless words to convey meaningless ideas.

plaetton:
Here, he introduces consciousness, and without defining it, he boldly claims that it is not explainable by materialistic (HUH ?) means.
Again, meaningless babble.

plaetton:
To correct him, what we know scientifically is that consciousness is the agglomeration of interactive information , and if I may add, ..at the quantum level.

plaetton:
So, yes, consciousness is interaction, interactive information at the quantum level.
Consciousness requires interactive information, and such , must, of necessity , have a mathematically corresponding corrollaries or properties.

plaetton:
Therefore, consciousness is not as immaterial as people like deepsight
would like us to believe.

plaetton:
If it were immaterial, then it should have no material or mathematical correspondences.

plaetton:
If consciousness was immaterial, we would not be able to distinguish or our emotions moved by the different tones of music.
Every elementary school kid knows that musical tones have mathematical correspondences.

plaetton:
So, are we clear on this issue of consciousness, sir deeepsight ?
Knock , knock, anybody home ?
Another juvenile sundayschool statement.
Again, see how he smuggles god into the argument without telling or showing us who or what god is supposed to be or how god affects consciousness, a term he failed define.


And as we see can clearly see from this last statement, the op is simply and desperately looking for A Good Grounds To convince Himself (and Himself only) That His Fairy God Exists.

plaetton:
WTF again?
Oh gosh!
In which school did they teach you this crap?

UyiIredia,
To be honest, I actually thought you were much more intelligent than this.
I am actually very very dissapointed.

I feel stu.pi.d for having engaged you.

I wish dumb folks would stop opening threads, that way I not have to engage them.

Then again, it's because of dumb folks making dumb claims that I find myself in this religilous section.

macof:
come on Uyi, you're better than this

but really christianity is seriously sucking you dry

johnydon22:
Isn't it funny you are just being Childish..
Please which one is cavemen again (cus its obvious you are using it in another context)
We are talking about Noah's story boy stop running around and answer the simple question.. [size=20] Gilgamesh or Noah which was written first?[/size]

Again? And you haven't read Isis healing osiris manhood when seth cut it off.. there are just fables..

It seems this one miracle is impossible eeeh?

UyiIredia:
State a natural law in mathematics or continue being a fool.

wiegraf:
Op, do you have amnesia?

johnydon22:
Yes Coming In His Kingdom Means transfiguration. . You know its always funny when you people try to twist what the bible said. . No wonder George Bernard Shaw said No Man believes the bible means what it says, he is always convinced it says what they mean

We definitely are seeing it here..

KoloOyinbo:
As a confirmed believer I do wish it was this simple (especially in moments of misunderstanding). If the argument held, then FAITH would be irrelevant and Christianity for one would be changed massively.

Basically all these types of arguments (The first set I mean) are classified as tautological arguments (simply put - a play on words), clever but ultimately circular and invalid. The second set refer to a mishmash of arguments only accepted by those who already believe and in no manner constitute a proof.

They were among the first types of arguments rejected by scholars, philosophers and Christians themselves (not sure about the stance of other faiths vis a vis Tautological Arguments).

There is NO proof of Gods existence thus we require Faith.
Likewise there is no proof of Gods NON existence, thus requiring an equal but opposite faith.

This is why all Christians who understand their religion stress FAITH so heavily.

KingEbukasBlog:
Honestly ... Id love to plaetton to prove why emotions are not God given . Another comedy show

when he's done , there are more :

-conscience
-free will
-social behavior

Off course ,I didnt forget

plaetton:
Oh gosh.

1 example : There are 360 degrees in a circle.

I guess that doesn't qualify as mathematical or natural law?

I am shocked to my bones that you are this dumb.

Unfortunately, I have to stay here to make sure that dumbfcks like you are continually shamed from making very dumb public posts.

plaetton:
UyiIredia,
Will you please stop writing nonsense?

Computer programming codes don't follow natural laws?
Like, WTF?

Human mind determine them?

What are you smoking ?

I bet you have never written a computer program in your life, you have no idea how they are written and with what they are written.
What a great folly.

For your education, thank me later, computer programs can ONLY be written using the Natural laws of mathematics.
Ok?

Now, since mathematical laws are default state in nature, the genetic code is simply a store house of 4.7 billion years of nature's programming code and reprogramming . That is why, from time to time it contains errors, errors of its past passed down the generations.

Pls, do you now understand what genetic code is and what computer programming code is?
I hope so.

SNCOQ3:
What I am not sure of is if you have reached the zenith of human stupidity and arrogance or if you are almost there; What I am sure of is that you are no programmer.


Indeed, you are no programmer.
You seem to have been fooled by the numerous math-like syntax in programming sample codes seen online to assert the word "ONLY".

Apart from the field of numerical analysis, cryptography, financial wares, physics engine(for simulating the laws of physics in softwares like video games), maths is rarely used by most programmers: examples are the use of regular expression (for word processing), database design(i.e SQL), server-side and most web apps programming.

Forget "Natural laws of mathematics", its nothing but "word salad":

There are Natural laws - mostly used in philosophy of rights and justice therefore not applicable in this case.

Laws of Mathematics - effects logical consistency in calculations.

Physical laws also known as scientific laws - "a theoretical principle deduced from particular facts, applicable to a defined group or class of phenomena, and expressible by the statement that a particular phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions be present." - wikipedia. The highlighted in red is the relationship between maths and science.

What you are confusing for your so-called "Natural laws of mathematics" is what real programmers call ALGORITHM - an indispensable tool for solving both mathematical and non-mathematical problems. Algorithm is to maths what maths is to physics.

For all your "laws of maths" worship, It may interest you to know that real programmers in the field of 3D CG/Physics Engine must rely on tricks, hacks and other creative utilization of man-made maths laws in 3D matrix and quaternions to fake a 3D world on a 2D surface(computer screen).

Ultimately, every programming code is decomposed by a compiler to machine code(10110100...) and computed(calculations, bit shifting, looping, storage) by CPU, but that should not warrant such drivel like "computer programs can ONLY be written using the Natural laws of mathematics."


I like the way you make a case for God.

Is like "nature" is a pseudonym for God and "mathematical laws" for the Logos. By "default state in nature", the Logos was with God(John1:1) and by "nature's programming code and reprogramming" - Through him(Logos) all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

As for "from time to time it contains errors, errors of its past passed down the generations." - The fall of man currupted nature:

For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.. (Rom 8:20-22)

The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. (Isaiah 24:3-5).


Actually you don't. You are no programmer.

You really think have the faintest idea what genetic code is in computer science terms?

One gram of DNA can store 700 terabytes of data. That’s 14,000 50-gigabyte Blu-ray discs… in a droplet of DNA that would fit on the tip of your little finger. To store the same kind of data on hard drives — the densest storage medium in use today — you’d need 233 3TB drives, weighing a total of 151 kilos.
What I am not sure of is if you have reached the zenith of human stupidity and arrogance or if you are almost there; What I am sure of is that you are no programmer.


Indeed, you are no programmer.
You seem to have been fooled by the numerous math-like syntax in programming sample codes seen online to assert the word "ONLY".

Apart from the field of numerical analysis, cryptography, financial wares, physics engine(for simulating the laws of physics in softwares like video games), maths is rarely used by most programmers: examples are the use of regular expression (for word processing), database design(i.e SQL), server-side and most web apps programming.

Forget "Natural laws of mathematics", its nothing but "word salad":

There are Natural laws - mostly used in philosophy of rights and justice therefore not applicable in this case.

Laws of Mathematics - effects logical consistency in calculations.

Physical laws also known as scientific laws - "a theoretical principle deduced from particular facts, applicable to a defined group or class of phenomena, and expressible by the statement that a particular phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions be present." - wikipedia. The highlighted in red is the relationship between maths and science.

What you are confusing for your so-called "Natural laws of mathematics" is what real programmers call ALGORITHM - an indispensable tool for solving both mathematical and non-mathematical problems. Algorithm is to maths what maths is to physics.

For all your "laws of maths" worship, It may interest you to know that real programmers in the field of 3D CG/Physics Engine must rely on tricks, hacks and other creative utilization of man-made maths laws in 3D matrix and quaternions to fake a 3D world on a 2D surface(computer screen).

Ultimately, every programming code is decomposed by a compiler to machine code(10110100...) and computed(calculations, bit shifting, looping, storage) by CPU, but that should not warrant such drivel like "computer programs can ONLY be written using the Natural laws of mathematics."


I like the way you make a case for God.

Is like "nature" is a pseudonym for God and "mathematical laws" for the Logos. By "default state in nature", the Logos was with God(John1:1) and by "nature's programming code and reprogramming" - Through him(Logos) all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

As for "from time to time it contains errors, errors of its past passed down the generations." - The fall of man currupted nature:

For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.. (Rom 8:20-22)

The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. (Isaiah 24:3-5).


Actually you don't.

You really think you understand what genetic code in programming terms is?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think about it for a moment: One gram of DNA can store 700 terabytes of data. That’s 14,000 50-gigabyte Blu-ray discs… in a droplet of DNA that would fit on the tip of your pinky. To store the same kind of data on hard drives — the densest storage medium in use today — you’d need 233 3TB drives, weighing a total of 151 kilos. Extremetech.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above is for storage alone.
Lets not get into parallel computation, 4bit -as opposed to our primitive 2bit(1,0) computation, data structure equivalent to a DNA with 4bits, algorithms for data sequencing.

Think about the supercomputer power it takes to simulate and decode a single strand of DNA— It can put the fear of God in a sane mind.
But then, you may not appreciate it- after all, you are no programmer.... right?

UyiIredia may not be a programmer in a conventional sense, but anyone with an intuitive understanding of the nature of code and an elementary knowledge of computer science is capable of comprehending genetic coding.

plaetton:
Lol
Don't you have to first prove that God exists, then show how he created you, and then how he endowed you with emotions.

After you have done that, then I can come in to Prove you wrong.

I cannot be asked to prove a negative proposition.

Its like me asking you to prove to me that snakes didn't talk 6000 yrs ago,

or that holy spirits don't get hor.ny, go on rampage, molest and impregnate young virgins.

UyiIredia:
Defend that statement in the light of this quote from Wikipedia's article on 'degree (angle)'

"The original motivation for choosing the degree as a unit of
rotations and angles is unknown. One theory states that it is
related to the fact that 360 is approximately the number of
days in a year. Ancient astronomers noticed that the sun,
which follows through the ecliptic path over the course of
the year, seems to advance in its path by approximately one
degree each day. Some ancient calendars, such as the
Persian calendar, used 360 days for a year. The use of a
calendar with 360 days may be related to the use of
sexagesimal numbers.

Another theory is that the Babylonians subdivided the circle
using the angle of an equilateral triangle as the basic unit
and further subdivided the latter into 60 parts following
their sexagesimal numeric system. The earliest
trigonometry, used by the Babylonian astronomers and
their Greek successors, was based on chords of a circle. A
chord of length equal to the radius made a natural base
quantity. One sixtieth of this, using their standard
sexagesimal divisions, was a degree."

You really don't understand what a natural law (as it relates to explaining the physical world) is. Here's a definition to help you out

"The laws of science or scientific laws are statements that
describe or predict a range of phenomena behave as they
appear to in nature. The term "law" has diverse usage in
many cases: approximate, accurate, broad or narrow
theories, in all natural scientific disciplines (physics,
chemistry, biology, geology, astronomy etc.). An analogous
term for a scientific law is a principle."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_science

You confuse mathematical statements with natural laws.

plaetton:
So, in your universe, 360 degrees does not equal a circle?
Or
Do you have any other type statement that describes the angular properties of a circle other than numbers and angular degrees?

Mathematical statements would be nonsense if they do not express the relationship of natural laws.
Cant you understand that?

UyiIredia:
Mathematical statements express natural laws. They aren't natural laws. Do you even know how 360 was deemed to be a circle ? It case you don't know it wasn't mathematically proven.

UyiIredia:
Mathematical statements express natural laws. They aren't natural laws. Do you even know how 360 was deemed to be a circle ? It case you don't know it wasn't mathematically proven.

SNCOQ3:
^ The original post as been 'cleaned up'... something went wrong during editing thus the redundancy. You can delete and 're quote' if you like.

KingEbukasBlog:
Sir , you pointed this out to me last time and I understood what you meant ..Thanks. I just wanted a different response

One more thing , I read about theistic evolution..even watched some videos . And Ive got lots of questions . Please , do you wish to address them?

SNCOQ3:
What I am not sure of is if you have reached the zenith of human stupidity and arrogance or if you are almost there; What I am sure of is that you are no programmer.


Indeed, you are no programmer.
You seem to have been fooled by the numerous math-like syntax in programming sample codes seen online to assert the word "ONLY".

Apart from the field of numerical analysis, cryptography, financial wares, physics engine(for simulating the laws of physics in softwares like video games), maths is rarely used by most programmers: examples are the use of regular expression (for word processing), database design, server-side and most web apps programming.

Forget "Natural laws of mathematics", its nothing but "word salad":

There are Natural laws - mostly used in philosophy of rights and justice therefore not applicable in this case.

Laws of Mathematics - effects logical consistency in calculations.

Physical laws also known as scientific laws - "a theoretical principle deduced from particular facts, applicable to a defined group or class of phenomena, and expressible by the statement that a particular phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions be present." - wikipedia.
The highlighted in red is the relationship between maths and science.

What you are confusing for your so-called "Natural laws of mathematics" is what real programmers call ALGORITHM - an indispensable tool for solving both mathematical and non-mathematical problems. Algorithm is to maths what maths is to physics.

For all your "laws of maths" worship, It may interest you to know that real programmers in the field of 3D CG/Physics Engine must rely on tricks, hacks and other creative utilization of man-made maths laws in 3D matrix and quaternions to fake a 3D world on a 2D surface(computer screen).

Ultimately, every programming code is decomposed by a compiler to machine code(10110100...) and computed(calculations, bit shifting, looping, storage) by CPU; but that should not warrant such drivel like "computer programs can ONLY be written using the Natural laws of mathematics."


I like the way you make a case for God.

Is like "nature" is a pseudonym for God.
"mathematical laws" for the Logos.
"default state in nature" — the Logos was with God(John1:1)
"nature's programming code and reprogramming" — Through him(Logos) all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.(John1:3)

"from time to time it contains errors, errors of its past passed down the generations." — The fall of man currupted nature:
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.. (Rom 8:20-22)

The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. (Isaiah 24:3-5).


Actually you don't.

You really think you understand what genetic code in programming term is?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just think about it for a moment: One gram of DNA can store 700 terabytes of data. That’s 14,000 50-gigabyte Blu-ray discs… in a droplet of DNA that would fit on the tip of your pinky. To store the same kind of data on hard drives — the densest storage medium in use today — you’d need 233 3TB drives, weighing a total of 151 kilos. Extremetech.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above is for storage alone.

Lets not get into parallel computation, 4bit -as opposed to our primitive 2bit(1,0) computation, data structure equivalent to a DNA with 4bit, algorithms for data sequencing.

Think about the supercomputer power it takes to simulate and decode a single strand of DNA— It can put the fear of God in a sane mind.
But then, you may not appreciate it- after all, you are no programmer.... right?

UyiIredia may not be a programmer in a conventional sense, but anyone with an intuitive understanding of the nature of code and an elementary knowledge of computer science is capable of comprehending genetic coding.

plaetton:
Lol.
You see, this is an example of the problem with bias, not having an open balanced mind. The problem with letting personal bias completely cloud one's objectivity.

You have read through all the very silly statements posted by UyiIredia.

Rather than to gently correct and guide him to better reasoning, as someone who represents your faith and making a fool of it, you jumped head first to support his silly statements, even though you dare not say such silly things yourself.

Funny that you insulted me before even embarking on your task. If you had read your post first, I doubt you would have had the temerity to cast insult.

You tacitly supported everything I have posted without even being aware that you were.

Big laugh.
That's what cut and paste can do to man.

plaetton:
Laughing out loud.

Gosh!

I read and reread this post many times. The more I read it, the more I realize how ridiculously senseless, false, contradictory and redundant it is.
More funny is that this guy came out swinging, perhaps intending to intimidate with his half cooked, Wikipedia educated, cut and paste I-know-it syndrome.

This whole post is a load of rubbish, and once again, reminds me why I spend time on this forum: to make sure that sunday school scholars Do Not get away with pubkicly parading Bullshytes on this forum.

You have better retract your post before I bring out the spanking rod.
Spanking rod is coming right up.

UyiIredia:
A silly way of castigating the OP since it's false and avoids my arguments. I have never doubted God's existence and don't look to atheists for any answers on that. Address the arguments please.

UyiIredia:
I made the same arguments on another site and couldn't convince atheists there. Maybe I'll have better luck here . . . OR NOT !

1) The existence of the universe demands an explanation. The order of the physical universe which ensures it adheres to laws which can be inferred suggests an intelligence behind the universe.

2) The genetic code in living organisms precludes the possibility they arose naturally. Natural processes CAN'T give rise to codes which don't follow natural laws. As humans, we know that codes are always made by conscious effort so the presence of codes in living things is grounds to infer that God exists.

3) Consciousness in man is not explainable by materialistic means. Emergence can't explain consciousness since typically it deals with new physical properties that arise due to complex interactions. But the consciousness isn't physical and so can't be explained by purely material means moreso since physical things lack consciousness. This is good grounds to believe that a God that effects consciousness exists.

KingEbukasBlog:
God is self-existent

When "God" is said , basic descriptions of Him should come to mind

→ Supreme Being
→ Creator
→Wonder worker
→ Highly intelligent being

If these are understood , then you have no problem . Can this be proven outside the bible? Yes and BASICALLY

→Existence , Design and Complexity of life forms
→Miracles
→Effects of His Power on Nature
→Personal Experiences

I mentioned this somewhere --- https://www.nairaland.com/2285941/atheism-religion-kolooyinbo-explains/5#33380518

KingEbukasBlog:
God is a
→ Supreme Being
→ Creator
→Wonder worker
→ Highly intelligent being
These are basic characteristics of Him every Christian knows . If obviously he performs wonders/miracles in our lives , seen we are created in his image , and have witnessed how He got us through problems . So why shouldn't we see Him as the creator of the universe?



I believe you bro


faith ?



I suppose cavemen stories of women being physically weak because they took care of the kids in the caves are not true then


strange names of people

SNCOQ3:
What has the mistake of posting a reply to a duplicate quote(redundancy) got to do with "problem with bias ,objectivity, open balanced mind"? It could as well be a result of tiredness after the day's work Mr. Sabinus.


How did you know I read through all...? Actually, I didn't.


First I agree with the OP.
My only reservation is the use of the word "natural law". I'd rather use "random chance" but I did not see the need to get pedantic since I understand and agree with the substance of his point. Besides, you also made semantic errors with "natural laws" - even as far as coining "word salad" like "natural laws of mathematics".


You crossed the line too many times to clobber the gentleman with insults instead of addressing the issue with civility. After all, you were not forced to address the OP. You even went as far as bullying him with a pseudo-programmer's superiority - This is what piqued my interest. As a programmer, I had to set the record straight.


Not at all.
Only a fool will not see that you are attributing the glory of the living God to an abstract idea like "the natural laws of mathematics".


Your wish oh pseudo-programmer.
Everything is from my tired head except the few citations with due attribution.

Kay17:
1. and 2. have hidden premises that all forms of order and arrangement must have intelligence behind it. The difficulties for these premises, is where the intelligence is embedded, whether in a human or non human. And intelligence itself is a form of order, therefore intelligence must be created created by an intellig....

As regards 3. do you think the cause of consciousness was conscious?

ifeness:
If you don't doubt,why bother about it. Just keep it to yourself.

ifeness:
Now talking about Genetic coding; How did you know about Genetic coding if not from reading Scientific books? Did you get that from Mythology/Bible? No,you read science book and wrongfully attributed the hard work to "God"

ifeness:
Existence of the universe is mere illusion. We are shifting from dimension to dimension,that means there is no one universe,but universes. So higher the frequency,the less physical you become. Physical in the sense that you are no more controlled by the laws of the physical Universe. This is pure logic....please close the Bible.

ifeness:
Same applies to consciousness. Consciousness is awareness. Albert Einstein became more aware/conscious of Time and space. He was a typical example of an observer,someone conscious of the fact that you and I can travel at different times. Depending on your frequency/intelligence,you can achieve a goal meant for a day in seconds.

ifeness:
Everything you said had nothing with proving the existence of a God.