Antivirus92:
did u really research well before arguing with that guy?. The way he narrated everything is enough to show u that he know much about those people and probably from there. Did u bother arguing with the op on his claims of igala communities even when he included nzam an Igbo town in it. u don't want people to see u as being ethnocentric. But u can argue with ur fellow igboman. sometimes u have to stand up and defend ur belongings not minding what people may say. daalu

That's right. Sometimes, radoillo just needs to step up and defend what is right and belongs to him. It is almost as if he would rather not argue with a non-igbo and accept their hypothesis about Igbo but readily argue his heart out with a fellow Igbo man.

Antivirus92:
did u really research well before arguing with that guy?. The way he narrated everything is enough to show u that he know much about those people and probably from there. Did u bother arguing with the op on his claims of igala communities even when he included nzam an Igbo town in it. u don't want people to see u as being ethnocentric. But u can argue with ur fellow igboman. sometimes u have to stand up and defend ur belongings not minding what people may say. daalu

What are you talking about? Didn't you see where I questioned the Igala guy concerning Nzam and where I told him that Nzam people speak Igbo language primarily and use Igala as a second language, and didn't you see where he conceded the points I raised? How else do you want me to question his views - by using insulting language?

As for the other guy, no he isn't from that area. It is not difficult to see that.

This has nothing to do with not wanting to be seen as being ethnocentric. I don't even understand where you are bringing ethnocentricism and 'what people have to say' into this from?

You don't think I know Olumbanasaa people? I've been to Odekpe in Olumbanasaa. I know a thing or two about those folks and what they say about themselves.

bigfrancis21:


That's right. Sometimes, radoillo just needs to step up and defend what is right and belongs to him. It is almost as if he would rather not argue with a non-igbo and accept their hypothesis about Igbo but readily argue his heart out with a fellow Igbo man.

Defend what exactly? What belongs to me? Olumbanasaa?

Moreover, since the op readily agrees that Igala people crossed the River Niger to settle in the Northern fringes of Anambra state, why then do we hear claims of 'Igala' towns in Anambra state? Those towns and lands belong not to Igala but Igbo. In my research done about these supposedly 'Igala' towns, the king names have all been Igbo, the names of residents interviewed or spoken to have always been Igbo. One begins to wonder differently.

In my opinion, if the Igalas in those villages, living among the Igbo natives, suddenly decide to care so much about their ancestry what they should do is return to Kogi where their ancestors came from.

Radoillo:


Defend what exactly? What belongs to me? Olumbanasaa?

Not only this thread but it is a pattern i've noticed with you for sometime. The pattern of not wanting to challenge a non-Igbo's view about the Igbo when so many times they are quite false. It is almost as if you take the back seat under those circumstances. But then you debate energetically with a fellow Igbo. I understand you many not want to sound ethnocentric whatsoever but sometimes you just have to stand up to certain anomalies.

That's all i'm trying to say.

vicenzo:


Thanks. I am not Igala. My other handle is pazienza. Spam bot got me, so I resurrected this old handle of mine.

ooo...pazienza nwa nnaa. kedu way idennaa

bigfrancis21:
Moreover, since the op readily agrees that Igala people crossed the River Niger to settle in the Northern fringes of Anambra state, why then do we hear claims of 'Igala' towns in Anambra state? Those towns and lands belong not to Igala but Igbo. In my research done about these supposedly 'Igala' towns, the king names have all been Igbo, the names of residents interviewed or spoken to have always been Igbo. One begins to wonder differently.

In my opinion, if the Igalas in those villages, living among the Igbo natives, suddenly decide to care so much about their ancestry what they should do return to Kogi where their ancestors came from.

This is exactly the point I was trying to pass across, albeit subtly. It's all about land ownership and claim.

The Igalas know where they came from, and they sure met aboriginal Igbos in Olumbanasa.

Radoillo:


What are you talking about? Didn't you see where I questioned the Igala guy concerning Nzam and where I told him that Nzam people speak Igbo language primarily and use Igala as a second language, and didn't you see where he conceded the points I raised? How else do you want me to question his views - by using insulting language?

As for the other guy, no he isn't from that area. It is not difficult to see that.

This has nothing to do with not wanting to be seen as being ethnocentric. I don't even understand where you are bringing ethnocentricism and 'what people have to say' into this from?

You don't think I know Olumbanasaa people? I've been to Odekpe in Olumbanasaa. I know a thing or two about those folks and what they say about themselves.

@bold...can you please tell us what the Odekpe folks themselves have to say about themselves?

It is under circumstances like these that we need people to speak up so as to dispel certain half-mixed truths and have a balanced view of the debate the op has thrown.

vicenzo:


This is exactly the point I was trying to pass across, albeit subtly. It's all about land ownership and claim.

The Igalas know where they came from, and they sure met aboriginal Igbos in Olumbanasa.

Paste the link to your pazienza profile so that I could see what's going on.

Antivirus92:
ooo...pazienza nwa nnaa. kedu way idennaa

Nnaa, Anom ya. Dalu.

bigfrancis21:


Paste the link to your pazienza profile so that I could see what's going on.

Oh, the spam bot released me yesterday, but by then, I had gotten used to this particular handle.

I will soon revert to my pazienza handle, let me flex this one small.
Thanks for your concern.

vicenzo:


Oh, the spam bot released me yesterday, but by then, I had gotten used to this particular handle.

I will soon revert to my pazienza handle, let me flex this one small.
Thanks for your concern.

Aight.

bigfrancis21:


@bold...can you please tell us what the Odekpe folks themselves have to say about themselves?

It is under circumstances like these that we need people to speak up so as to dispel certain half-mixed truths and have a balanced view of the debate the op has thrown.

They speak Igala primarily. When I was there, it was to attend a colleague's father's burial. The entire thing was done in Igala language. Of course, they are able to speak Igbo also. I noticed Igbo names as well as Igala names. My colleague has an English first name and an Igala last name. I never found out about his middle name - whether it was Igbo or Igala. His dead father's full name was on the poster. He had no Igbo name. I think I mentioned this on another similar thread.

Back in school, I asked him (my colleague, that is) about the language I had heard in his village. He told me it was Igala. And that their town along with some other nearby towns in that part of Anambra were actually Igala, and that there oral traditions derive them from present-day Kogi State.


Anyway, I thought you already were aware that Anambra State officially recognises it has Igala indigenes. You yourself have mentioned the 2% stuff on other threads. Now because of Vicenzo's claims you want to act like you are no longer sure...or as if the presence of native Igala people in the state is open to question?

Nobody is denying the presence of Igalas in Anambra.
What we are merely establishing is how they came to be there, ie the invasion of Northern tips of Igboland by Igala speaking people from present day Kogi state, in not so distant past, and the change in population demographics of those parts of Igboland caused by that invasion.

I am well aware of the presence of Igalas who are now indigenous to those parts of Igboland.

bigfrancis21:


Not only this thread but it is a pattern i've noticed with you for sometime. The pattern of not wanting to challenge a non-Igbo's view about the Igbo when so many times they are quite false. It is almost as if you take the back seat under those circumstances. But then you debate energetically with a fellow Igbo. I understand you many not want to sound ethnocentric whatsoever but sometimes you just have to stand up to certain anomalies.

That's all i'm trying to say.

Again, I don't know,what you and anti virus mean by 'not wanting to sound ethnocentric'. I have debated several non-Igbos who want to say stuff about Igbos that they have no business saying. Most times though, they realise that they don't have the knowledge to sustain a debate so they just skulk off. Yes I admit I don't take on non- Igbos as often as some of you guys because I'm aware this forum is full of trolls who just come on here to say stuff and rile up Igbo people unnecessarily. Aint nobody got no time for trolls.

I'll keep on debating my 'brothers' though because I expect better from them. Call it tough love.

Radoillo:


They speak Igala primarily. When I was there, it was to attend a colleague's father's burial. The entire thing was done in Igala language. Of course, they are able to speak Igbo also. I noticed Igbo names as well as Igala names. My colleague has an English first name and an Igala last name. I never found out about his middle name - whether it was Igbo or Igala. His dead father's full name was on the poster. He had no Igbo name. I think I mentioned this on another similar thread.

Back in school, I asked him (my colleague, that is) about the language I had heard in his village. He told me it was Igala. And that their town along with some other nearby towns in that part of Anambra were actually Igala, and that there oral traditions derive them from present-day Kogi State.


Anyway, I thought you already were aware that Anambra State officially recognises it has Igala indigenes. You yourself have mentioned the 2% stuff on other threads. Now because of Vicenzo's claims you want to act like you are no longer sure...or as if the presence of native Igala people in the state is open to question?

I am quite aware of Igala residents in Anambra state who migrated to live in Anambra state. But what I have issue with is claiming areas they settled on as 'Igala' towns as if they met the towns empty when they arrived there.

There is a difference between acknowledging the presence of a people in an area as migrant vs recognition of a people as natives/aboriginals. The Igalas living in Anambra state are not natives but only migrants owing to the proximity of Igala land to Anambra north. Not one major contribution have they made to Anambra state only but crave the recognition of Anambra state as partly Igala state. In my opinion, that does not make sense. If they care so much about their ancestry, they can return to Kogi where they came from.

Radoillo:


Again, I don't know,what you and anti virus mean by 'not wanting to sound ethnocentric'. I have debated several non-Igbos who want to say stuff about Igbos that they have no business saying. Most times though, they realise that they don't have the knowledge to sustain a debate so they just skulk off. Yes I admit I don't take on non- Igbos as often as some of you guys because I'm aware this forum is full of trolls who just come on here to say stuff and rile up Igbo people unnecessarily. Aint nobody got no time for trolls.

I'll keep on debating my 'brothers' though because I expect better from them. Call it tough love.

I fugo etu I si chargialu m kita, I sibu etu anunwa a chargialu ndi ozo, nsogbu a ma adi nu.

Believe me, I see hundreds of trolls not worth my time that I ignore everyday but on certain occasions one needs to stand up to certain anomalies.

bigfrancis21:


I am quite aware of Igala residents in Anambra state who migrated to live in Anambra state. But what I have issue with is claiming areas they settled on as 'Igala' towns as if they met the towns empty when they arrived there.

With the exception of Nzam, the other towns do not have oral traditions that they found Igbos there. That is why I was trying to tell Vicenzo. If there are traditions that the Igala people in Odekpe, Igbokenyi, Odeh, etc, found Igbos there when they came, good and fine. But if there are no traditions aren't you only just speculating? Is there any reason to think that Igalas could not have got there first? Bear in mind that the Olumbanasaa area is not far from Ibaji-Igala in Kogi State.

What some people don't know is that the names of some of the villages in Olumbanasaa mirror the names you will find in Ibaji area of Kogi...indicating that they were most probably founded from scratch by Igala people. I'm only saying Look at the facts on ground. It doesn't help anyone if we just assume offhand that these were Igbo towns that became 'Igalanized'.

Radoillo:


With the exception of Nzam, the other towns do not have oral traditions that they found Igbos there. That is why I was trying to tell Vicenzo. If there are traditions that the Igala people in Odekpe, Igbokenyi, Odeh, etc, found Igbos there when they came, good and fine. But if there are no traditions aren't you only just speculating? Is there any reason to think that Igalas could not have got there first? Bear in mind that the Olumbanasaa area is not far from Ibaji-Igala in Kogi State.

What some people don't know is that the names of some of the villages in Olumbanasaa mirror the names you will find in Ibaji area of Kogi...indicating that they were most probably founded from scratch by Igala people. I'm only saying Look at the facts on ground. It doesn't help anyone if we just assume offhand that these were Igbo towns that became 'Igalanized'.

Why will they admit to meeting Igbos there? What purpose will it serve them, especially now that they are the majority and have full control of the town, you want them to accept they are migrants?

Are you for real? Of course in the absence of written history, and their dominance in those areas, the Igalas are always going to project a history of meeting the land empty.
Same would have happened to Nzam, if we don't have an overwhelming Igbo presence there. That's the nature of humans.

I would do the same, if I were in their shoes.

Radoillo:


With the exception of Nzam, the other towns do not have oral traditions that they found Igbos there. That is why I was trying to tell Vicenzo. If there are traditions that the Igala people in Odekpe, Igbokenyi, Odeh, etc, found Igbos there when they came, good and fine. But if there are no traditions aren't you only just speculating? Is there any reason to think that Igalas could not have got there first? Bear in mind that the Olumbanasaa area is not far from Ibaji-Igala in Kogi State.

What some people don't know is that the names of some of the villages in Olumbanasaa mirror the names you will find in Ibaji area of Kogi...indicating that they were most probably founded from scratch by Igala people. I'm only saying Look at the facts on ground. It doesn't help anyone if we just assume offhand that these were Igbo towns that became 'Igalanized'.

How can you be so sure that there are no oral accounts of such? You admitted previously that you've only been there once or so and haven't had much chance to interview the people deeply to find information.

Francis and Pazienza, I have a feeling this might drag on longer than it should.
None of us here have heard of any traditions that claim Igbo precedence in Olumbanasaa communities. In such a state of knowledge, it is difficult to understand why both of you are tilting towards a hypothesis that those places were originally Igbo. It is more logical (considering the present state of knowledge) to accept them for what they say they are - which is fundamentally Igala villages that absorbed Igbo influence - until you come across traditions that say otherwise.

I'm naturally a very curious person, and since visiting Odekpe (this was about 2008) I've been asking questions and searching through published literature. So far only Nzam (which is not even numbered among the Olumbanasaa towns) appears to be the only one that has traditions about aboriginal Igbo people, even though not all versions of Nzam traditions agree on this.

Based on this, the only reasonable thing an objective person will do is accept, at least for the time being, that these communities were Igala from the beginning. To speculate about Igbo aborigines with no proof whatsoever is highly subjective and biased.

What if someone told you that the Izii communities in Benue State were founded by Idoma before the Izii got there? You'll probably strongly disagree with the person, or ask him to post links and proof, right? Same thing should apply here.

[BTW, I didn't know Vicenzo was Pazienza. A fellow 042 boy and passionate Igbo scholar like myself. Respect, bruv. ]

Radoillo:
Francis and Pazienza, I have a feeling this might drag on longer than it should.
None of us here have heard of any traditions that claim Igbo precedence in Olumbanasaa communities. In such a state of knowledge, it is difficult to understand why both of you are tilting towards a hypothesis that those places were originally Igbo. It is more logical (considering the present state of knowledge) to accept them for what they say they are - which is fundamentally Igala villages that absorbed Igbo influence - until you come across traditions that say otherwise.

I'm naturally a very curious person, and since visiting Odekpe (this was about 2008) I've been asking questions and searching through published literature. So far only Nzam (which is not even numbered among the Olumbanasaa towns) appears to be the only one that has traditions about aboriginal Igbo people, even though not all versions of Nzam traditions agree on this.

Based on this, the only reasonable thing an objective person will do is accept, at least for the time being, that these communities were Igala from the beginning. To speculate about Igbo aborigines with no proof whatsoever is highly subjective and biased.

What if someone told you that the Izii communities in Benue State were founded by Idoma before the Izii got there? You'll probably strongly disagree with the person, or ask him to post links and proof, right? Same thing should apply here.

I think you've provided a more balanced approach to this issue. My father is from one of the Olumbanasaa towns, in fact, the same one you've been to. And though he originally bore an Igbo name, from all indications both he and the people from there in general, aren't ethnic Igbos. One of the posters here seems to think that because the people from these areas or their Igwe bear Igbo names, then that means they're Igbo or something like that. Actually, that doesn't prove anything. Maybe if he meets some of my relatives who have Igbo names and heavy Igbo accents, he'd rush into conclusions too. In fact, many of the Ibaji Igalas in kogi state bear Igbo names too. Does that prove they're ethnic Igbos too or their land originally belongs to the Igbos? He and the others speak as if the boundary between Anambra and Kogi was defined at the time the Igala people moved south.

Migration is not alien to us humans. It is very likely they settled in previously uninhabited areas, as can be found among cultures the world over. I see no reason to bring up this issue of "our Igbo land". They make it seem like an insignia "Igbo land" was stamped in the place. These guys just moved. They had no maps. None of us did back then. There was no way to know which was Igbo land or not. It was just land and they settled wherever they found suitable. It would only be logical to apply such ethnic appellations to land based on what we know now about these areas by simply asking the question, "who are people found there now?" Even if there were Igbo settlers before our Igala forbears came, it doesn't mean the place isn't ours or our home. It's the only real home we know. This was home to our ancestors and is now home to us and will be to our children. After all, no people have always been in a place. They had to move there at some point.

Inoma is also not part of Olumbanasaa, as well as Owelle and Ukwala. Inoma, Owelle and Ukwala are collectively referred to as Inoma Akator. The fact that these towns are not in olumbanasaa just like Nzam, isn't taken to mean they are Igbos, is it? The claim in the Wikipedia page about Nzam (whose link I also posted) that Nzam is "a unique igbo town" is also contended. You mentioned something about different "traditions" about Nzam which is obviously true. My uncle and wife (wife's Igbo) contend that the people of Nzam are not Igbo. They say they're just as Igala as the others. That in fact, many of them can't speak Igbo too but they all speak Igala and aren't really bilingual as Wikipedia claims. He says bilingualism is only on an individual scale. He is bilingual and so are my parents, but that doesn't mean bilingualism is a generic thing among us. He also grew up and schooled in our region.Mind you, this uncle of mine has never been pro-kogi but has always been pro-igbo. He prefers to tell people he's Igbo, since he speaks fluent igbo and bears Igbo names and is Anambra. He does this perhaps to avoid ambiguity. He even gave his kids Igbo names and has a problem with the word "Igala". Now, that brings me to another point. My uncle contends that we're "olu". Olu is the term for the brand of Igala we speak which is quite different from that spoken in kogi. Interestingly, many Igala people in kogi even contend that the Ibaji people among them are not Igala, and that their language is Ibaji as opposed to Igala. I don't know if this "olu" as the specific name of our language has anything to do with the "olu" in olumbanasaa, but it's worth investigating.

^ I heard from an Aguleri man that they refer to the Igala dialect spoken in Ibaji, Kogi as Olu. Aguleri has a special relationship with the Igala town of Odeke found in the Ibaji area, and claim that it's founder was a son of Eri the progenitor of the Aguleri people. I don't know if they have the same tradition in Odeke.

So what about oral traditions? If you have information on the oral traditions of the Olumbanasaa communities plus the other three (Inoma, Owelle and Ukwala), it will be good to share. I'm sure there are many who are curious to know.

Nzam remains problematic. While I feel the Igbo element there is very strong, I have to admit that most of its villages appear to have Igala names, and that the names of its villages also occur in Ibaji, indicating a southward drifting of migrants from Ibaji area.

Concerning culture and traditional religion, in your own community, would you say it is closer to Igbo or closer to those of the Igala in Kogi?

You are also right about the Ibaji Igala in Kogi bearing Igbo names, and being bilingual. In fact, their dialect of Igala shows considerable Igbo influence. You can find this paper using Google "The Influence of Igbo on the Ibaji Dialect of Igala" by R I Okorji and G S Omachonu. I would have shared the link, but when I try to copy the link using my phone, it doesn't copy the full thing.

@Radoillo, to tell you the truth, I don't know much about my people. I'm just getting to know the little I know now. I'd been misled all my life in thinking I'm from kogi. My parents especially my Mum remain obstinate on this point. Thankfully, I've grown into a young adult who's interested in getting the true picture of the state of affairs. In fact, I only recently visited Inoma (my Mum's place) for the first time. In my family, we didn't/don't have a tradition of visiting home due to the paranoid belief that everybody there's a witch or wizard and are all out to kill you. Mum "regaled" us with many anecdotes and legends to drive this point home. So, we grew up believing all the village people were evil and the village is a bad place, and were thus alienated. Of course, I've ditched all the crappy paranoid beliefs now.

As per culture, we are more like the Igbo. The kogi Igala (not Ibaji) way of life seemed very alien to me when I was there. We usually call the kogi Igala who are up north, "odikpale" in reference to their geographic location.

Thanks for the paper. If you have more scholarly work related to the subject of this thread, please kindly provide them. Thanks again.

Yes, Radoillo. The Ibaji people also use the word "olu" for their language. My late grandmother was from there. And I vividly remember a guy from Aya (in Ibaji) using the same word.

Radoillo:


With the exception of Nzam, the other towns do not have oral traditions that they found Igbos there. That is why I was trying to tell Vicenzo. If there are traditions that the Igala people in Odekpe, Igbokenyi, Odeh, etc, found Igbos there when they came, good and fine. But if there are no traditions aren't you only just speculating? Is there any reason to think that Igalas could not have got there first? Bear in mind that the Olumbanasaa area is not far from Ibaji-Igala in Kogi State.

What some people don't know is that the names of some of the villages in Olumbanasaa mirror the names you will find in Ibaji area of Kogi...indicating that they were most probably founded from scratch by Igala people. I'm only saying Look at the facts on ground. It doesn't help anyone if we just assume offhand that these were Igbo towns that became 'Igalanized'.

While you are quick to point out replication of some village names in the olumbanasaa area of Anambra state in Kogi state, you've failed to look within to see if such names could be found within Igboland. While claiming you've visited odekpe in anambra state, have you forgotten that there is an odekpe village in Ogbaru LGA of Anambra state, a purely igbo speaking town? Of course, to back up your argument rather than see things as they might be you would want to come up with a defensive line of argument how odekpe in ogbaru could not be igbo as awll but founded by some possible igala migrant group. I am waiting on your rebuttal on this.

Some of these supposedly igala villages have igbo names such as 'ndi okpoliba' and 'igbokaenyi'. In one of your earlier posts, you mentioned the possibility of 'igbo' having a meaning in igala (a proto-yoruba language) and therefore could not be igbo in meaning. Ask yourself, what is the frequency of 'igbo' occurring village names in igala land? How often are we won't to find such names in igala land? A possible research done into this to rule out the possibility of an igala origin of igbokaenyi would suffice but in the absence of such evidence, it would be folly to assume an igala origin of that village name.

Not forgetting that the capital of ibaji lga of kogi state is Onyedega (an Igbo sounding name). In view of your pattern of reasoning, would you readily allure to a possible upward migration of Igbos into the Onyedega area of ibaji?

I would rather not conclude that the olumbanasaa villages are mere 'igala' towns with absorption of igbo influence, because some of the town names sound Igbo. Or should we claim that Onyedega of Ibaji is an Igbo town but igala speaking today? The conclusion is up to you.

In my opinion, Igalas crossed over to meet natives, albeit few, already living there to settle amongst them. At best, olumbanasaa villages would be a mixed Igbo-Igala group today.

Radoillo, I would rather not be in a haste to conclude that there are no Igbo oral traditions of those areas until you visit the Igbo natives of olumbanasaa to hear for yourself. One, albeit hasty, journey to Odekpe is never enough evidence to reach an all conclusive conclusion.

During the Anambra-Kogi oil well dispute, oral traditions said that the Igalas in Anambra state were migrants who crossed over in search of farmlands to farm on and lands and farmlands were allocated to them to farm on, this occurring hundreds of years ago. Time over time, the people settled there, reproduced, had children, grandchildren and great-grand children who were born in those areas with presence long enough to call those places in Anambra their home.

When the oil crisis erupted, Anambra reminded them that the land was theirs and they were only but migrants into the area long ago in search of farmlands. Kogi state government claimed that the people were Igala speaking and therefore where they were staying are Igala lands, forgetting that they are only but migrants. Anambra state government insisted and the rest is history. The same way Igalas crossed over to the Ebu part of Delta state to settle amongst the Igbo-speaking groups. Not also forgetting the lukumis in Delta state as well. These being examples of migrant settlers in Igbo-speaking areas. Turning around today to refer to those areas as 'igala' areas would be folly.

In history, town names have often been changed depending on the greater linguistic group present at that time or done directly to erase prior ancestral connotations to an area and have it assume a new identity. An example would be Egypt today, which fell to the arabs and its place names changed from their original ancient egyptian names to arabic names, thus wiping out ancient egyptian ties to the country. There is every possibility that some of such igala sounding names were only changed after they became majority and decided to change or transliterate an existing name to something more similar to them.

In your quest for Igbo oral traditions of some of those places, the anambra state government would readily tell you that those places were mere farmlands given to igala migrants to settle and farm on and that those lands belong to the Igbos. I would start pointing my search radar in that direction if I truly needed conclusive answers.

McSterling:
Yes, Radoillo. The Ibaji people also use the word "olu" for their language. My late grandmother was from there. And I vividly remember a guy from Aya (in Ibaji) using the same word.

Listen, olu is never used in reference to ibaji language only. 'olu' is a term in Igboland used to refer to canoe men/people or fishermen living by the water side and could refer to any migrant group speaking a non-Igbo language living by the river side. The term has also been used to refer to Ijaw fishermen along the water coast of Onitsha to Ogbaru.

In Imo state, a certain people are called 'oru' and a local government was named entirely in that name.

Surprisingly, the Ibaji people of Kogi state are riverine and it would not come as a surprise if their Igbo neighbours called them 'olu', which they subsequently adopted in their language. Okwu mbite or cross-border adoption of words from neighbouring countries.

The reason the 7 Igala villages were named collectively as 'olu mba naasa' (i.e. 7 olu towns) by the Igbo natives is in reference to the group of Igala migrant settlers living close to the sea side spread out across 7 villages.

Am enjoying this.. I've been interested to find out the relationship between the omambala & nsuka cultural areas of Igboland and the ibaji area of igala land.
Pls continue.. Am happy to learn

Ha! I thought we were done here o!

Do you know the origins/history of Odekpe in Ogbaru? I know, but I'd prefer you looked it up for yourself so it won't look like I'm making up stuff.

Okpoliba is not even one of the seven villages of Olumbanasaa, but one of the villages that make up the town of Nzam (I town I have already stated from the beginning has a stronger Igbo strain than the core Olumbanasaa towns). Besides I do not know what gives you the impression that 'Okpoliba' is an Igbo word.

I also do not know why you all are insisting that Igbokenyi (written also as Igbokaenyi, sometimes: Igbokenyi is by far the more common way of writing it) is an Igbo word. I have always believed there is a danger in branding every Igbo-sounding word outside core Igbo areas as Igbo words, when the linguistics, ethnography and place-name pattern of the bearing community is not known to you. What if I tell you there is an Igala clan in Kogi called Okenyi clan? And there is actually such a clan. (Now before you also say that Okenyi sounds Igbo, let me quickly tell you that oke means hill in Igala, and that Igala also has a lot of words ending in -nyi, such as unyi which means hut/house).

What if I speculate that it was Okenyi people who first settled in Igbokenyi, calling it Igbo-Okenyi (which in Yoruboid would be understood as 'farm settlement of Okenyi people'...a similarly named town would be Igbo-Idaisa, a idaisa-Yoruba town in Benin Republic). Now, I'm not saying this is how Igbokenyi got its name. I'm just trying to tell you that assuming an Igbo etymology for an Igala-speaking town that you know next to nothing about may come across as arrogant.

You very clearly want to believe there were Igbo aborigines in these places before the Igala arrived there. O dirokwa bad. Just be honest enough to accept that there is no basis for that belief.

Biko, let's move along. Topic a eme go expire. Ka anyi kpaa iye ozo.

You do need to know that Igbo language has undergone some transformation over the centuries such that modern Igbo language isn't the same in vocabulary as ancient Igbo language. An awka man from the 16th century who suddenly rises from the dead to speak the Awka Igbo of his time would sound partially familiar to you. There are many an Igbo word young generations of now would see and hardly be able to give their meanings except being rendered by the elderly. Some of such ancient Igbo words not commonly in use today are mgba (for woman), igbudu, ofili/ohiri, ifite, uboma, etc. Okpoliba could be one of them. By the way, the town name in Nzam in full is Ndi Okpoliba (people of okpoliba). Just because you are unable to interpret a word you are not familiar with doesn't automatically mean it is non-Igbo. However, if you directly approach the people of Ndi Okpoliba they would be able to tell you what their town name means and don't be surprised if they make sense in Igbo. Till today, I am yet to interpret what my village name, 'urukpaleke' actually means. That does not mean we are not Igbo just because the village name sounds distantly unfamiliar. Hundreds of such names exist in Igboland only which the natives could tell you their actual meaning, most times arising from situations or circumstances occurring around the time of town naming.

What if I were to speculate that Igbokaenyi means, 'Igbo are stronger than elephants', a figure of speech in reference to the often revered strength and virility of the Igbo people done by comparing Igbos with an animal so strong and huge as an elephant, which makes much sense in its own right, would I be wrong to have done so? I wouldn't be surprised given the common usage and mention of the elephant in Igbo names such as ogbatuluenyi (a strong one who kicks down an elephant), ononenyi (one who rides on an elephant), madukaenyi (someone stronger/bigger than an elephant) etc. in traditional reference of comparing the strength or feat of someone to the strength or size of an elephant. The best people to tell us the actual meaning of their town names would be the natives themselves. For those who have never been there before, one may only speculate.

Also, what do you mean by core Igbo areas? Which areas are the core Igbo areas? What is Igbo to begin with? Define 'core Igbo'? I thought that you had mentioned somewhere in the past in one of these Igbo denial threads that 'Igbo' is only a term used to collectively group together bia-speaking dialectical clans? What even makes Nnewi more Igbo than Agbor in Delta state when both groups are bia-speaking to begin with?

Today, America is seen as a Caucasian country with places named in English when, however, the land had originally been inhabited by the red Indians. Places such as 'Maryland', 'orange county', 'new jersey' were probably named originally by Indian natives names before they were changed. The British did not arrive to meet the land of America empty - they arrived and in their sheer numbers took control of the area, erasing former native names and giving them English names instead (advantage of linguistic dominance) and also during the American-Mexican wars, acquired the states of Texas, New Mexico and southern parts of California from Mexico added into their territory and changed many of place names in these states from formerly Spanish to English language.

I don't remember thinking at any point that the conversation was over. Some times I barely have time to sit and type out what I have to say because I could be way very busy. When I do often get the chance to, I would respond, if I actually remember to.

McSterling:
Thank you.

In all honesty, I do not think that your ancestry is far-to-fetch and worth all the unnecessary identity crisis. I would not stress my ancestry that much when it is simple and clear - that I am a descendant of Ajida, an Igala warrior man who migrated into Anambra from Idah, Kogi state. You had no need for your identity crisis in the first place when your ancestry is this simple and easy - you are simply from Idah born and resident in Anambra state. For your relatives and those who embrace their Igala ancestry, they should mention that they are from Idah when asked where in Kogi they are from. Feel free to extend this courtesy to your mom in case she isn't sure yet where in Kogi she is from. Those who embrace their Igbo origins, bear Igbo names and speak Igbo language are welcome into the greater Igbo fold of Anambra state.