EazyMoh:

Funny but true. but why the hate nah?
Muslims don't hate Christians, infact they have a special place in Islam.

Its Just Iv Been Predisposed 2 Dat. Made 2 Grow Dat Way,

Demigods:



Big fool like u. It's obvious u are Satan inspired. Mehn get the Bleep outta here goat.

Why d insults? Did he quote out of the quoran or some other religious book? Was his quotes not in d bible and from one of the greatest apostles of God?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr6sMxUSD88
^{by Derek Walker}

@softapples @malvisguy212 @Adaeze003 @oreos @menxer
@freecocoa @haul @Papa5050 @portable86 @lomprico
@etenyong @Adesiji77 @Taiye4Christ @Orikinla @CSTR2 @gmaribel @Abumenre
@5starmilitant @Appleyard @ApexTitan @chuna1985 @luvprince4real

[size=18pt]1 Corinthians 14:34-35:
Should Women be Silent in Church?[/size]

[size=16pt]VIDEO'S TRANSCRIPT:[/size]
One controversy concerns the role of women in church ministry. One scripture in particular seems to exclude women from any public ministry:

'Let your women keep SILENT in the churches,
for it is NOT PERMITTED FOR THEM TO SPEAK;
but they are commanded to be under obedience,
as THE LAW also SAYS.
And IF they want to learn something,
let them ask their own husbands at home,
for it is SHAMEFUL FOR WOMEN TO SPEAK IN CHURCH.'
(1 Corinthians 14:34,35)

Some would explain this away as a special command to the unruly women at Corinth to straighten-up, rather than a general command to all women everywhere. But if we treat one scripture this way, what is to stop us treating every scripture this way? Surely the New Testament is written for the whole church.

The subject of the passage is: 'THE WOMEN IN THE CHURCHES (plural)'. This means-'all women.' Moreover the command is based on 'the law' which means it applies to all, rather than just to those in a particular culture or time.

Let us consider what this passage is literally saying. The word for 'silent' does not mean 'quiet' Thus it is not saying that women should have a quiet (meek) spirit. The word translated 'silent' means no word can be spoken!

It is saying WOMEN MUST BE (completely) SILENT IN CHURCH. This doesn't just disqualify them from teaching but also from testifying, praying, prophesing and moving in the gifts of the Spirit-the latter being the context of these verses (1 Cor 12:1)

The First Problem with this passage, is that it contradicts Paul's other teaching in this book.
For he says women may pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor 11:3-5).
In 1Corinthians 12, especially in v13-27 he teaches that all members of the church (men and women), are members of the body and thus have a function in the body working in co-ordination with each other, and so we can all be used in the gifts and ministries of the Spirit.

So, he says: 'if ALL (men and women) prophesy' (1 Cor 14:24)
'When you come together, EVERY ONE (men and women) of you has a psalm, has a doctrine, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation.' (v26)
'You may ALL prophesy one by one.' (v31)

So, why would he say 3 verses later that all women must be silent in church? Is he being doubleminded?
So the first problem is that in the middle of encouraging everyone to move out in ministry, he is telling all women to be silent!

This also contradicts the spirit of the New-Testament with Jesus treating women with honour, with the churches set free from all Jewish traditions (Acts15), with full equality in the church (Gal 3:28) and with the Spirit poured upon all flesh (male and female) to give power for ministry (Acts 1:8, 2:4,16-18)

A Second Problem is the discouragement upon women from even learning:
'and IF THEY WANT TO LEARN.' The tone of this is condescending to women, that not only should they not speak, it is optional for them to learn the Word (it is even mildly frowned upon as if it were not really their place.) This is clearly in contradiction to the New Testament teaching for women and contrasts with what Paul said in 1Timothy 2:11: 'LET a woman learn.' Here he encourages women to study the Word. Here he speaks against those who would discourage them.

A Third Problem is the AUTHORITY used:
'IT IS NOT PERMITTED FOR THEM TO SPEAK ..AS THE LAW ALSO SAYS.'

Which Law is this? There are 4 possibilities:
(1) The Old Testament Scripture. (The Law of Moses)
It is usually referred to by 'It is written' (1 Cor 1:19,31; 3:19,20; 4:6; 9:9; 10:11, 14:21; 15:45,51)

(2) The Teaching of Jesus (1 Cor 7:10).

(3) The Apostolic Teaching and Tradition
-that which Paul and others received by revelation from the Lord (1 Cor 7:12) Paul received special new revelations to meet the needs of a new situation (the Church Age where many Gentiles were becoming believers on an equal footing with the Jews). For example: 1 Cor 2:10-13,16; 4:1,15-17, 7:6,10,12,17,25; 11:1,2,16,17, 23; 14:36,37; 15:1,3

(4) The Oral Law of the Jews (later written as the Talmud)- the interpretation of Moses' Law by the Scribes and Pharisees. It is followed by the Orthodox Jews to this day as of equal authority to the Bible. They falsely claimed it was passed down from Moses by word of mouth. Jesus clashed with Pharisees over this law. He rejected it and came against it's legalistic spirit (Matt15:3, Mark7:3).

Now when 1 Cor 14:34,35 refers to a law of silence for women, it couldn't be:
(1) because there's no such law in the Old-Testament and he would say 'it is written';
neither is it found in the Gospels (2).
Neither is it (3) because it is clearly a pre-existing law.
Therefore by a process of elimination it must be (4) The Jewish Oral Law (the laws of the Pharisees)

This is confirmed by the phrase: 'As also SAYS the Law.' - a reference to the ORAL law rather than the WRITTEN law (scripture).
(see also Matt 5:21,27,31, 33,38,43)

Also, we know this because it agrees completely with the Talmud and applies to Orthodox synagogues today. The service is for men only. Women are discouraged from even learning, but are sometimes allowed to watch from the gallery, for their place is at home not with things too high for them! And it would be shameful for them to speak in a meeting.

TALMUDIC QUOTES illustrate this:
A Jewish Prayer:'Praise God He hasn't created me a gentile, a woman or an ignorant man.'
'The woman, says the law, is in all things inferior to the man.'
Only men could speak in public (Beraktoth 4,36; Mishnah Aboth 1,5)
No woman could give a testimony or conduct business. (Mishnah Shabbath 4,1)

Women were viewed with disregard and repression, and the Talmud contains many distasteful insults of women's character. They were to be avoided. They were not required to know or fulfil the law and so few were learned.

One said: 'May the words of the Torah be burned rather than be given to women.'
In public worship they were segregated and silenced and so had to ask questions of their husbands at home.

Clearly the writer of 1 Cor 14:34,35 reflected this Pharisaical attitude to women and used this Jewish Law to support his views.

So why would Paul say something that stands in contradiction to the immediate context and the rest of the New Testament? Why would he establish this teaching on Jewish Laws that elsewhere, both he and Jesus rejected?

The simple answer is these verses are not Paul's teaching!
Paul's letters are written in response church situations. 1 Corinthians is the most responsive of them all. Paul had received reports about what was going on (1:11, 5:1, 6:1,8 ), and the church had sent a letter to Paul with many questions (7:1,8,10,12,25; 8:1,4; 12:1; 16:1). There was disunity (1:10-12,3:3). In particular there were 2 groups of people saved from different backgrounds disputing -Jews who tended toward legalism, and Greeks who tended toward license. Paul goes through the issues and questions raised one by one.

Examples of when Paul is clearly responding to what one group has said are 6:15-20 (Greeks); 9:1-11; 11:1-16 (Jews) and 15:12,35,36.

Sometimes he refers what they are saying and then he answers them -e.g.1 Cor 4:8: 'You are already full! You are already rich! You have reigned as kings without us.' (this is what some of them had claimed) --'and indeed I wish you did reign, that we might also reign with you.' (Paul's answer - see also 4:10)

Sometimes he even quotes what they say and then answers them. The problem is that there are no punctuation or quote marks in the Greek and the translators often miss them out.

Some examples of this, are when he responds to the 'loose' Greeks as in 6:12,13:
(You say) 'All things are lawful for me.'
(I Paul) say: 'but all things are not helpful.'
(You say) 'All things are lawful for me.'
(I Paul) say: 'but I will not be brought under the power of any.'
(You say) 'Food is for the stomach and the stomach for foods.'
(I Paul) say: 'but God will destroy both it and them.'
We see the same in 10:23,24.

In questions about idols Paul challenges those who pride themselves in their knowledge but who do not hold it in love. (8:1-3) 8:4: 'We know that -'an idol is nothing in the world and that there is but one God' (again he quotes their words (their knowledge) before he answers as confirmed in v10,11.

Other examples are when he responds to the 'legalistic Jews', 7:1:
'Now concerning what you wrote to me,
(some of you said) 'It is good for a man not to touch a woman.'
(But I Paul say) 'Nevertheless because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife...'

Now we can understand what is happening in 1 Cor 14:34,35.
Paul is quoting what some Jewish converts to Christ, had written in a letter to Paul, complaining about women being involved in church services. Although they were saved they were used to male-dominated synagogue - worship and so found the equality of women in church life hard to take.

They were saying: 'Paul, these women are prophesying, praying out loud, speaking in tongues. The Oral law says it's shameful for a woman to speak in public. Tell them to shut-up!'

So as Paul is teaching on every member participating in church services, it is the natural place for him to deal with their objection. So he quotes what they say: 'Let your women keep silent in the churches, for it is not permitted for them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is shameful for women to speak in church' (v34,35)

Then he answers them: 'What, came the word of God out from you? or came it to you only? If any think himself a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write to you (not the Talmud) are the commandments of the Lord (the true authority) But if any (choose to be) be ignorant, let him be ignorant.' (v36-38) Paul replies by asserting his apostolic authority above the Talmud.

This also explains why these verses come out of the blue, interrupting the flow of thought, which is picked up again in v39,40: 'Therefore brethren, covet to prophesy and do not forbid to speak with tongues.'

The placement of v34,35 in the passage as a clear interruption and marked contrast to what Paul is teaching, serves to separate them from Paul's own views.

We conclude that Paul isn't silencing women, rather the opposite!

Those who are too quick to agree with v34,35 have unwittingly submitted to an unchristian pharisaical spirit

They say is civilisation, lets see where is leading us to. My advise to fellow guys is to becareful in our selection of who to marry, when a woman is trying to show u that she is very civilise, better let her be irrespective of her money or education. God is not foolish in d olden days neither will he be in our time. As for those who are saying that we are all equal before Christ, my question to u is how many women made the list of Christ's twelve apostles? May u not perish in ur holier than Christ attitude.

malvisguy212:
in a world were everyone is in full control of his or her own freewill, human are bound to go against the word of God, listen, it is God himself who appoint His servant , God will not gives leadership to the women, why ?
1 Timothy 2:13–14
13 For Adam was formed first, then
Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

If you allow the scripture to do the interpretation through the spirit you will under what verse 13-14 is talking about.
God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “HELPER” for Adam. The oder of creation has universal application of the church and family.

The text is very clear, women are not allow to have spiritual authority over men because the woman was deceive. In a church were woman is the leader mean they are going against the commandment of God.

Bible scholar, who was Deborah in the bible that you would think God can't give leadership to a woman?
Was Eve the first or only transgressor in God's diary?
Who made you God's SSA on spiritual matters?

oreos:

I thought he was speaking with the spirit of God. If you refuse to believe that you should be ready to refute every other things he prescribed?

Abi! Including tithes.

If women shouldn't be given a voice in church, why should they be given a voice in politics, government, corporate world or anywhere for that matter?

MuttleyLaff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr6sMxUSD88
^{by Derek Walker}

@softapples @malvisguy212 @Adaeze003 @oreos @menxer
@freecocoa @haul @Papa5050 @portable86 @lomprico
@etenyong @Adesiji77 @Taiye4Christ @Orikinla @CSTR2 @gmaribel @Abumenre
@5starmilitant @Appleyard @ApexTitan @chuna1985 @luvprince4real

[size=18pt]1 Corinthians 14:34-35:
Should Women be Silent in Church?[/size]

[size=16pt]VIDEO'S TRANSCRIPT:[/size]
One controversy concerns the role of women in church ministry. One scripture in particular seems to exclude women from any public ministry:

'Let your women keep SILENT in the churches,
for it is NOT PERMITTED FOR THEM TO SPEAK;
but they are commanded to be under obedience,
as THE LAW also SAYS.
And IF they want to learn something,
let them ask their own husbands at home,
for it is SHAMEFUL FOR WOMEN TO SPEAK IN CHURCH.'
(1 Corinthians 14:34,35)

Some would explain this away as a special command to the unruly women at Corinth to straighten-up, rather than a general command to all women everywhere. But if we treat one scripture this way, what is to stop us treating every scripture this way? Surely the New Testament is written for the whole church.

The subject of the passage is: 'THE WOMEN IN THE CHURCHES (plural)'. This means-'all women.' Moreover the command is based on 'the law' which means it applies to all, rather than just to those in a particular culture or time.

Let us consider what this passage is literally saying. The word for 'silent' does not mean 'quiet' Thus it is not saying that women should have a quiet (meek) spirit. The word translated 'silent' means no word can be spoken!

It is saying WOMEN MUST BE (completely) SILENT IN CHURCH. This doesn't just disqualify them from teaching but also from testifying, praying, prophesing and moving in the gifts of the Spirit-the latter being the context of these verses (1 Cor 12:1)

The First Problem with this passage, is that it contradicts Paul's other teaching in this book.
For he says women may pray and prophesy in church (1 Cor 11:3-5).
In 1Corinthians 12, especially in v13-27 he teaches that all members of the church (men and women), are members of the body and thus have a function in the body working in co-ordination with each other, and so we can all be used in the gifts and ministries of the Spirit.

So, he says: 'if ALL (men and women) prophesy' (1 Cor 14:24)
'When you come together, EVERY ONE (men and women) of you has a psalm, has a doctrine, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation.' (v26)
'You may ALL prophesy one by one.' (v31)

So, why would he say 3 verses later that all women must be silent in church? Is he being doubleminded?
So the first problem is that in the middle of encouraging everyone to move out in ministry, he is telling all women to be silent!

This also contradicts the spirit of the New-Testament with Jesus treating women with honour, with the churches set free from all Jewish traditions (Acts15), with full equality in the church (Gal 3:28) and with the Spirit poured upon all flesh (male and female) to give power for ministry (Acts 1:8, 2:4,16-18)

A Second Problem is the discouragement upon women from even learning:
'and IF THEY WANT TO LEARN.' The tone of this is condescending to women, that not only should they not speak, it is optional for them to learn the Word (it is even mildly frowned upon as if it were not really their place.) This is clearly in contradiction to the New Testament teaching for women and contrasts with what Paul said in 1Timothy 2:11: 'LET a woman learn.' Here he encourages women to study the Word. Here he speaks against those who would discourage them.

A Third Problem is the AUTHORITY used:
'IT IS NOT PERMITTED FOR THEM TO SPEAK ..AS THE LAW ALSO SAYS.'

Which Law is this? There are 4 possibilities:
(1) The Old Testament Scripture. (The Law of Moses)
It is usually referred to by 'It is written' (1 Cor 1:19,31; 3:19,20; 4:6; 9:9; 10:11, 14:21; 15:45,51)

(2) The Teaching of Jesus (1 Cor 7:10).

(3) The Apostolic Teaching and Tradition
-that which Paul and others received by revelation from the Lord (1 Cor 7:12) Paul received special new revelations to meet the needs of a new situation (the Church Age where many Gentiles were becoming believers on an equal footing with the Jews). For example: 1 Cor 2:10-13,16; 4:1,15-17, 7:6,10,12,17,25; 11:1,2,16,17, 23; 14:36,37; 15:1,3

(4) The Oral Law of the Jews (later written as the Talmud)- the interpretation of Moses' Law by the Scribes and Pharisees. It is followed by the Orthodox Jews to this day as of equal authority to the Bible. They falsely claimed it was passed down from Moses by word of mouth. Jesus clashed with Pharisees over this law. He rejected it and came against it's legalistic spirit (Matt15:3, Mark7:3).

Now when 1 Cor 14:34,35 refers to a law of silence for women, it couldn't be:
(1) because there's no such law in the Old-Testament and he would say 'it is written';
neither is it found in the Gospels (2).
Neither is it (3) because it is clearly a pre-existing law.
Therefore by a process of elimination it must be (4) The Jewish Oral Law (the laws of the Pharisees)

This is confirmed by the phrase: 'As also SAYS the Law.' - a reference to the ORAL law rather than the WRITTEN law (scripture).
(see also Matt 5:21,27,31, 33,38,43)

Also, we know this because it agrees completely with the Talmud and applies to Orthodox synagogues today. The service is for men only. Women are discouraged from even learning, but are sometimes allowed to watch from the gallery, for their place is at home not with things too high for them! And it would be shameful for them to speak in a meeting.

TALMUDIC QUOTES illustrate this:
A Jewish Prayer:'Praise God He hasn't created me a gentile, a woman or an ignorant man.'
'The woman, says the law, is in all things inferior to the man.'
Only men could speak in public (Beraktoth 4,36; Mishnah Aboth 1,5)
No woman could give a testimony or conduct business. (Mishnah Shabbath 4,1)

Women were viewed with disregard and repression, and the Talmud contains many distasteful insults of women's character. They were to be avoided. They were not required to know or fulfil the law and so few were learned.

One said: 'May the words of the Torah be burned rather than be given to women.'
In public worship they were segregated and silenced and so had to ask questions of their husbands at home.

Clearly the writer of 1 Cor 14:34,35 reflected this Pharisaical attitude to women and used this Jewish Law to support his views.

So why would Paul say something that stands in contradiction to the immediate context and the rest of the New Testament? Why would he establish this teaching on Jewish Laws that elsewhere, both he and Jesus rejected?

The simple answer is these verses are not Paul's teaching!
Paul's letters are written in response church situations. 1 Corinthians is the most responsive of them all. Paul had received reports about what was going on (1:11, 5:1, 6:1,8 ), and the church had sent a letter to Paul with many questions (7:1,8,10,12,25; 8:1,4; 12:1; 16:1). There was disunity (1:10-12,3:3). In particular there were 2 groups of people saved from different backgrounds disputing -Jews who tended toward legalism, and Greeks who tended toward license. Paul goes through the issues and questions raised one by one.

Examples of when Paul is clearly responding to what one group has said are 6:15-20 (Greeks); 9:1-11; 11:1-16 (Jews) and 15:12,35,36.

Sometimes he refers what they are saying and then he answers them -e.g.1 Cor 4:8: 'You are already full! You are already rich! You have reigned as kings without us.' (this is what some of them had claimed) --'and indeed I wish you did reign, that we might also reign with you.' (Paul's answer - see also 4:10)

Sometimes he even quotes what they say and then answers them. The problem is that there are no punctuation or quote marks in the Greek and the translators often miss them out.

Some examples of this, are when he responds to the 'loose' Greeks as in 6:12,13:
(You say) 'All things are lawful for me.'
(I Paul) say: 'but all things are not helpful.'
(You say) 'All things are lawful for me.'
(I Paul) say: 'but I will not be brought under the power of any.'
(You say) 'Food is for the stomach and the stomach for foods.'
(I Paul) say: 'but God will destroy both it and them.'
We see the same in 10:23,24.

In questions about idols Paul challenges those who pride themselves in their knowledge but who do not hold it in love. (8:1-3) 8:4: 'We know that -'an idol is nothing in the world and that there is but one God' (again he quotes their words (their knowledge) before he answers as confirmed in v10,11.

Other examples are when he responds to the 'legalistic Jews', 7:1:
'Now concerning what you wrote to me,
(some of you said) 'It is good for a man not to touch a woman.'
(But I Paul say) 'Nevertheless because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife...'

Now we can understand what is happening in 1 Cor 14:34,35.
Paul is quoting what some Jewish converts to Christ, had written in a letter to Paul, complaining about women being involved in church services. Although they were saved they were used to male-dominated synagogue - worship and so found the equality of women in church life hard to take.

They were saying: 'Paul, these women are prophesying, praying out loud, speaking in tongues. The Oral law says it's shameful for a woman to speak in public. Tell them to shut-up!'

So as Paul is teaching on every member participating in church services, it is the natural place for him to deal with their objection. So he quotes what they say: 'Let your women keep silent in the churches, for it is not permitted for them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is shameful for women to speak in church' (v34,35)

Then he answers them: 'What, came the word of God out from you? or came it to you only? If any think himself a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write to you (not the Talmud) are the commandments of the Lord (the true authority) But if any (choose to be) be ignorant, let him be ignorant.' (v36-38) Paul replies by asserting his apostolic authority above the Talmud.

This also explains why these verses come out of the blue, interrupting the flow of thought, which is picked up again in v39,40: 'Therefore brethren, covet to prophesy and do not forbid to speak with tongues.'

The placement of v34,35 in the passage as a clear interruption and marked contrast to what Paul is teaching, serves to separate them from Paul's own views.

We conclude that Paul isn't silencing women, rather the opposite!

Those who are too quick to agree with v34,35 have unwittingly submitted to an unchristian pharisaical spirit

Who then is responsible for those verses since Paul told you he isn't?

freecocoa:
Who then is responsible for those verses since Paul told you he isn't?

You have to be more explicit than this
Have I missed something?
Which verse(s) from the above post or verse(s) in Paul's epistle did Paul say he was not responsible for?

But what has women done to deserve dis treatment?....this marginalisation of women even started in the old testament...but the reason Paul gives in 1 Timothy 2:13-14 is very flimsy I must say...every human is equal before God Almighty even if we have different spiritual responsibilities...some of paul's teaching cannot be applied now because we are more enlightened and most of his writings are his personal views...God Help us all..

menxer:


Bible scholar, who was Deborah in the bible that you would think God can't give leadership to a woman?
Was Eve the first or only transgressor in God's diary?
Who made you God's SSA on spiritual matters?

you made a good point, there is a reasonable explanation in the case of Deborah.

The Time of the Judges was not a good
period in the history of Israel because
after the time of Joshua’s death

Judges 2:10
“there arose another generation after them who did not know the Lord or the work that he had done for Israel”

You see, after Joshua died another generation arose who do not know the God of isreal,this generation worship others gods they completely abandoned the God of their forfather's, but because God has a covenant with the isrealite he provide for them a king:

Judges 2:18
The Lord then raised up for them godly
judges

Judges 2:19
“But whenever the judge died, they turned back and were More corrupt than their fathers, going after other gods, serving them and bowing down to them”

Not just one judge, but many and whenever this judge died, they turn back and worship others gods.

This happened time after time because

Judges 17:6
“In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes”

Israel needed a strong judge and God was about to provide them with one; one named Deborah. Not a single isrealite knows the God of their father's ONLY Deborah.

gbaskiphylle:
But what has women done to deserve dis treatment?....this marginalisation of women even started in the old testament...but the reason Paul gives in 1 Timothy 2:13-14 is very flimsy I must say...every human is equal before God Almighty even if we have different spiritual responsibilities...some of paul's teaching cannot be applied now because we are more enlightened and most of his writings are his personal views...God Help us all..

Paul never taught that women should be silent etcetera
Slowly but loudly, read the video's transcript if you are unable to watch the video please

MuttleyLaff:
You have to be more explicit than this
Have I missed something?
Which verse(s) from the above post or verse(s) in Paul's epistle did Paul say he was not responsible for?

don't take her serious, she is an atheist.

malvisguy212:
don't take her serious, she is an atheist.

I know freecocoa and all about her theology antecedents
Thanks for the heads-up

MuttleyLaff:
You have to be more explicit than this
Have I missed something?
Which verse(s) from the above post or verse(s) in Paul's epistle did Paul say he was not responsible for?

You implied with your write up that the message as seen in the scriptures, is not to be taken as Paul saying women shouldn't teach but rather the opposite as he couldn't contradict himself, no?

malvisguy212:
don't take her serious, she is an atheist.

You must be very stup1d.

freecocoa:
You must be very stup1d.

are you not an atheist ? Why are you angry , because I called you an atheist?

malvisguy212:
are you not an atheist ? Why are you angry , because I called you an atheist?

Now am certain you are indeed stup1d, so because I'm atheist I shouldn't be taken serious, take several seats back nigga.

freecocoa:
Now am certain you are indeed stup1d, so because I'm atheist I shouldn't be taken serious, take several seats back nigga.

its okay, you will be taken serious,infacte I will include you on my diary. have a blissful weekend

freecocoa:
You implied with your write up that the message as seen in the scriptures,
is not to be taken as Paul saying women shouldn't teach
but rather the opposite as he couldn't contradict himself, no?

Firstly, freecocoa I've got this feeling that watching a 25 minutes Youtube video isnt something you'll have a worry about
Secondly, the ''write- up'' is a transcript of the video for the benefit of some who wouldnt want to use their data bandwidth to watch it
Lastly, if you watched the entire video to the end or read the whole transcript,
it would have clearly be seen how it explained how and why not Paul's epistles were not about teaching silent of women in Church
and how he couldn't be contradicting himself, yes.
- Paul's epistles became part of scripture or the Bible, it isn't the actual reports or letters he was responding to in his epistles that are scriptures

PS I wouldnt say malvisguy212 saying the atheist obvious is stewpid, he was, if I didnt know, harmlessly just handed out a FYI

This thread again

I believe God calls those He needs into certain positions. If He calls women... good. If He doesn't, Good.

I will be more bothered If I can't go to school/work in certain places because I am a woman.

Perhaps If I were to be a Church founder where all the millions are coming to me directly, I will be bothered about those verses.

But to bother about pastoring because of 'power' or other perks, God forbid.

Infact, If God doesn't want women in churches again, it only makes me have a longer weekend as far as Heaven is sure

Women should please channel their energy into more profitable ventures

malvisguy212:
its okay, you will be taken serious,infacte I will include you on my diary. have a blissful weekend

Feck off.

MuttleyLaff:

Firstly, freecocoa I've got this feeling that watching a 25 minutes Youtube video isnt something you'll have a worry about
Secondly, the ''write- up'' is a transcript of the video for the benefit of some who wouldnt want to use their data bandwidth to watch it
Lastly, if you watched the entire video to the end or read the whole transcript,
it would have clearly be seen how it explained how and why not Paul's epistles were not about teaching silent of women in Church
and how he couldn't be contradicting himself, yes.
- Paul's epistles became part of scripture or the Bible, it isn't the actual reports or letters he was responding to in his epistles that are scriptures

PS I wouldnt say malvisguy212 saying the atheist obvious is stewpid, he was, if I didnt know, harmlessly just handed out a FYI

Yea, watching the video isn't a worry but I decided to read the transcript because it's there and I can always reread if I didn't understand something, now I understand everything read.

1.it's the pharisees who has issues with women teaching.

2.Those bible verses was in response to them.

Now why include that part of paul's response, leaving out the complains or concerns of the pharisees?

Why should we take your version of what transpired serious, if I can come up with reasons why I believe those were paul's words/intentions?

How does it make any sense, to include a response to a letter no one knows of into the bible?

As for the other guy, he is very stup1d for not knowing that saying a person shouldn't be taken serious(especially for no cogent reason)is insulting.

somewhere in the old testament God use Deborah greately,not only did she encourage the children of God but also march among the Army to fight against Balak.
now what do we understand by these?
God wanted to prove that HE can use a woman to achieve His Goal,even after Balak fled the scene God can as well use a man to kill Balak but instead he choose a Woman..

freecocoa:
Yea, watching the video isn't a worry
but I decided to read the transcript because it's there
and I can always reread if I didn't understand something ...

Yep thought as much that worrying about bandwidth wouldnt be an issue.
So you've already watched the video then?
If you've watched the video and was closely following it with the transcript,
you would have noticed there are extra comments in the video missing in the transcript

By the way, I watched this guy, first on Satellite TV years ago before he finally made the video available on YouTube

freecocoa:
...now I understand everything read
1.it's the pharisees who has issues with women teaching.

Exactamundo! ... and 21st century pharisees too having issues with women teaching etctera

freecocoa:
2.Those bible verses was in response to them

Yes in response to them and the likes having a pharisaical spirit

freecocoa:
Now why include that part of paul's response, leaving out the complains or concerns of the pharisees?

Paul in his letter was responding to reports, complaints and grievances earlier reached him
On the contrary the ''complaints or concerns of the pharisees'' are included in part of paul's response
Their ''complaints or concerns of the pharisees'' are what Paul quoted or cited in his letters (i.e. as citation)

freecocoa:
Why should we take your version of what transpired serious, if I can come up with reasons why I believe those were Paul's words?

How does it make any sense, to include a response to a letter no one knows of into the bible?

C'mon now freecocoa, it weren't all letters, its a combination of all (e.g. reports, hearsays he received, letters etcetera)
Besides, apart from Paul's, the only other letters published in the Bible are those of the Apostles like John, Peter, Jude etcetera
and not that of the Pharisees or any other person

Also, did you not know, watched the video or read to know that, Greek, unlike in English, has no punctuation or quote marks?
You get to know about the letter/ or what he was addressing when he repeated them in his epistlers

Taiye4Christ:


*lets op fall to the ground without holding him




The church is deep down in the mire of ignorance, no thanks to teachings like op's.

Could you please explain the scripture rightly pointed out by the op instead of throwing tantrum

OP that scripture didn't say women shouldn't preach but shouldn't have authority over a man. Was Deborah not a judge in the bible?

MuttleyLaff:
Yep thought as much that worrying about bandwidth wouldnt be an issue.
So you've already watched the video then?
If you've watched the video and was closely following it with the transcript,
you would have noticed there are extra comments in the video missing in the transcript

By the way, I watched this guy, first on Satellite TV years ago before he finally made the video available on YouTube

Exactamundo! ... and 21st century pharisees too having issues with women teaching etctera

Yes in response to them and the likes having a pharisaical spirit

Paul in his letter was responding to reports, complaints and grievances earlier reached him
On the contrary the ''complaints or concerns of the pharisees'' are included in part of paul's response
Their ''complaints or concerns of the pharisees'' are what Paul quoted or cited in his letters (i.e. as citation)

C'mon now freecocoa, it weren't all letters, its a combination of all (e.g. reports, hearsays he received, letters etcetera)
Besides, apart from Paul's, the only other letters published in the Bible are those of the Apostles like John, Peter, Jude etcetera
and not that of the Pharisees or any other person

Also, did you not know, watched the video or read to know that, Greek, unlike in English, has no punctuation or quote marks?
You get to know about the letter/ or what he was addressing when he repeated them in his epistlers

No, I haven't watched the video and quite frankly, am not going to because I don't see what difference it makes(even with the said missing comments in the transcript)

I can let you have what you claim is the reason for the bible verses(eventhough I don't agree with it),I can't however, agree that the bible does not support misogyny.

softapples:
The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” ( 1 Timothy 2:11–12). In the church, God assigns different roles 2 men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and D way in which sin entered the world ( 1 Timothy 2:13–14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors over men, which definitely includes preaching to them, teaching them publicly, and exercising spiritual authority over them.
There are many objections to this view of women in pastoral ministry. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11–14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education were a qualification for ministry, then D majority of Jesus’ disciples would not be qualified.

Quoting the baba himself Paul: Galatians 3:28 Galatians 3:28New International Version (NIV). 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in ...

Exodus 15:20 Then "Miriam the prophetess," the sister of Aaron, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women went out after her with tambourines and dancing...

Micah 6:4
For I brought you up from the land of Egypt, I redeemed you from the house of bondage; And I sent before you Moses, Aaron, and Miriam...

Judges 4:4
Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time...
Huldah

Kings 22:14
So Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Achbor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. (She dwelt in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter.) And they spoke with her...
Noadiah

Nehemiah 6:14 NLT
Remember, O my God, all the evil things that Tobiah and Sanballat have done. And remember Noadiah the prophet and all the prophets like her who have tried to intimidate me.

Now... you'd say these were Old Testaments, now these are New Testaments:

Anna

Luke 2:36
And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity.

Acts 21:8-9
On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.
Of notable mention are the four daughters of Phillip. They are briefly mentioned as prophesying in the book of Acts. The Greek word used in Acts 21:9 for prophesying is prophēteuō. Prophēteuō means "to prophesy, to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspirations, to predict".

What the Scripture says without misunderstanding: 1 Timothy 2:11-12...

Paul’s purpose for writing Timothy was not to cut the women from the ministry work, as only God alcan make such decision, rather, it was to encourage Pastor Timothy to duely confront the false teachers who had by means infiltrated the church at the Ephesus (1 Timothy 1:3). This heresy created a disturbing chaotic situation. Some of the men argued while they should have been praying (1 Timothy 2:. Some of the women were dressed immodestly and ostentatiously in an attempt to displayed their wealth (1 Timothy 2:9). Paul planned to pay a personal visit to Ephesus in the immediate future to deal with the developing crisis there (1 Timothy 2:14). However, in the event that his arrival at Ephesus was delayed for some reasons, as Paul, was a man that attended to the IMPORTANT and holding on on the URGENT, Paul wanted Pastor Timothy to take an immediate and firm action. Paul’s instructions to Timothy were written to restore order so, “you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household” (1 Timothy 3:15).

Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth ...

Now, I ask you this: if Female Pastors preach the Gospel, and souls are won, will there be sorrow in Heaven?

Quoting the baba himself Paul: Galatians 3:28 Galatians 3:28New International Version (NIV). 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in ...

Exodus 15:20 Then "Miriam the prophetess," the sister of Aaron, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women went out after her with tambourines and dancing...

Micah 6:4
For I brought you up from the land of Egypt, I redeemed you from the house of bondage; And I sent before you Moses, Aaron, and Miriam...

Judges 4:4
Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time...
Huldah

Kings 22:14
So Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Achbor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. (She dwelt in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter.) And they spoke with her...
Noadiah

Nehemiah 6:14 NLT
Remember, O my God, all the evil things that Tobiah and Sanballat have done. And remember Noadiah the prophet and all the prophets like her who have tried to intimidate me.

Now... you'd say these were Old Testaments, now these are New Testaments:

Anna

Luke 2:36
And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity.

Acts 21:8-9
On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.
Of notable mention are the four daughters of Phillip. They are briefly mentioned as prophesying in the book of Acts. The Greek word used in Acts 21:9 for prophesying is prophēteuō. Prophēteuō means "to prophesy, to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspirations, to predict".

What the Scripture says without misunderstanding: 1 Timothy 2:11-12...

Paul’s purpose for writing Timothy was not to cut the women from the ministry work, as only God alcan make such decision, rather, it was to encourage Pastor Timothy to duely confront the false teachers who had by means infiltrated the church at the Ephesus (1 Timothy 1:3). This heresy created a disturbing chaotic situation. Some of the men argued while they should have been praying (1 Timothy 2:8 ). Some of the women were dressed immodestly and ostentatiously in an attempt to displayed their wealth (1 Timothy 2:9). Paul planned to pay a personal visit to Ephesus in the immediate future to deal with the developing crisis there (1 Timothy 2:14). However, in the event that his arrival at Ephesus was delayed for some reasons, as Paul, was a man that attended to the IMPORTANT and holding on on the URGENT, Paul wanted Pastor Timothy to take an immediate and firm action. Paul’s instructions to Timothy were written to restore order so, “you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household” (1 Timothy 3:15).

Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth ...

Now, I ask you this: if Female Pastors preach the Gospel, and souls are won, will there be sorrow in Heaven?

pass111:
In Christ there is no such thing as slave nor free born, there is no Jew nor gentile, no Woman nor man , all are equal before the lord remember The grace is available to ALL ... even the grace to preach, minister etc.
Gal 3:28

Acts 2:17
“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out
my Spirit on ALL flesh, and your sons and your DAUGHTERS shall
prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men
shall dream dreams

Romans 16:1
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church at
Cenchreae,

Romans 16:3
Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus,(I guess Sister Phoebe, Prisca and Aquila are both male abi)

well u quote some notable passage bt come to think of it ; wherr in those passage it is nention to teach n preach openly like in d church? according to act 2 u quoted, is d grace dat is available for everyone dat will make ur daughter to receive gift of prophecy, for d fact dat u hv dat gift doesnt make u a pastor infact u need to even pray to get d interpretation of d prophecy,
in Romans 16 those woman were call workers in christ not preacher in open area or to hv authority of man, there is order in d house of God remember God is not author of confusion, dont get me wrong nothing bad for woman to preach or teach cos is everyone's mandate "go ye into d word n teach.." dat is mandate Jesus gave us all bt not for a woman to b pastoring a church and hv authority over man. understanding of d word of God is important God bless u

pass111:
In Christ there is no such thing as slave nor free born, there is no Jew nor gentile, no Woman nor man , all are equal before the lord remember The grace is available to ALL ... even the grace to preach, minister etc.
Gal 3:28

Acts 2:17
“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out
my Spirit on ALL flesh, and your sons and your DAUGHTERS shall
prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men
shall dream dreams

Romans 16:1
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church at
Cenchreae,

Romans 16:3
Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus,(I guess Sister Phoebe, Prisca and Aquila are both male abi)

well u quote some notable passage bt come to think of it ; wherr in those passage it is nention to teach n preach openly like in d church? according to act 2 u quoted, is d grace dat is available for everyone dat will make ur daughter to receive gift of prophecy, for d fact dat u hv dat gift doesnt make u a pastor infact u need to even pray to get d interpretation of d prophecy,
in Romans 16 those woman were call workers in christ not preacher in open area or to hv authority of man, there is order in d house of God remember God is not author of confusion, dont get me wrong nothing bad for woman to preach or teach cos is everyone's mandate "go ye into d word n teach.." dat is mandate Jesus gave us all bt not for a woman to b pastoring a church and hv authority over man. understanding of d word of God is important God bless u .