₦airaland Forum

McSquishi:
Link an article where his Blackness (related to his mixed ancestry) is questioned. His loyalty to the Black community? Sure. Whether he's an "Uncle Tom" (a BLACK man traitor to his ppl)? Perhaps. His blackness isn't questioned bc his mom is White. Stop the lies!

Flashh:
[color=#225484]Why are you coming up with senseless reply? Must you chat with me tonight? [/color]

Sehindemi:
In as much Ur brain hasn't come up yet..
It definitely need to be repaired!

And guess wat?
I won't let U go until I do dat 4 U..

Fish-brained low life!

SirShymexx:
Lol. Case of pot and kettle cos you were both angry. All I did as a black man was to point out where the both of you are right. But rather than listen - you had to vent on me as well like an angry black woman on steroids. And when white guys call you lot bull dogs, you will start getting angry. You sound like an angry chihuahua and an obnoxious one lol. Only God knows what ya face looks like with the nappy hair lol.

What she said that's in line with the mentality of a lot of AAs:

- Some mixed race folks are confused (I already cited examples and I can post more if you want).

- Mixed race folks aren't accepted by both communities. And she is right to an extent. White folks don't see them as white. And though they are technically accepted in the black community, it comes with a baggage and it isn't uncommon to see folks question their blackness.

Is Obama black enough?

The Democratic hopeful Barack Obama could become the US's first black president. Yet, with his mixed-race background, Ivy League education and midwestern accent, one of his greatest challenges has been convincing African-Americans that he is 'one of us'.

In 1998, as a blue-stained dress presented the biggest political threat to the leader of the free world, the Nobel laureate Toni Morrison inaugurated Bill Clinton "our first black president". Most people got the message. The manner in which Clinton had been chased, slipped and then caught were reminiscent of how black leaders in the past had been singled out for a particular kind of probity until they had failed. His poor, rural Southern roots, turbulent marriage and voracious appetites for junk food and sex helped propel him over the cultural colour line. His life read like a country ballad; but it just as easily could have been the blues.

Nine years later, the US has its best chance yet to elect an actual - as opposed to metaphorical - black president in the Democratic senator for Illinois, Barack Obama. Born to a Kenyan father and a mother from Kansas, Obama's favourite book as a teenager was Malcolm X's autobiography. After graduating, he did grassroots campaigning work in the black community in Chicago; after he was elected to the Senate, he joined the Congressional black caucus. Yet somehow Obama's racial identity remains a subject of perennial scrutiny. His mixed-race heritage and solid midwestern timbre have left some claiming he is not black at all. His background - raised by his white mother and grandparents in Hawaii and Jakarta, he attended Ivy League colleges and then taught constitutional law at university - fits no known mould of black American life.

Some refer to Obama as a racial category all to himself: in the eyes of those who praise him he is a new, different and (by implication) better kind of black politician than those who have previously strode across the American political landscape. To others his background suggests a lack of authenticity. He's black alright, but simply not "black enough". A poll showing black Americans backed Hillary Clinton by three-to-one seemed to bear this out, although another poll in yesterday's Washington Post suggested that black voters are starting to support the black candidate in greater numbers.

"When black Americans refer to Obama as 'one of us', I do not know what they are talking about," wrote the African-American columnist Stanley Crouch in November. "He has not lived the life of a black American ... If we end up with him as our first black president, he will have come into the White House through a side door - which might at this point be the only one open."

This kind of talk made the journalist Marjorie Valbrun, who is Haitian-American, mad: "It makes me angry," she wrote in the Washington Post recently. "I'm angry for Obama, too. People are asking whether he's black enough to represent them. I ask, black enough by whose standards? Why must Obama's life follow the same track of 'authentic' black folk to pass this litmus test?"

It's not just a talking point among African-Americans. During an interview with CBS's Steve Kroft, who is white, just two weeks ago, the line of questioning went as follows:

Kroft: Your mother was white. Your father was African?

Obama: Right.

Kroft: You spent most of your life in a white household?

Obama: Yeah.

Kroft: I mean, you grew up white.

Obama: I'm not sure that would be true. I think what would be true is that I don't have the typical background of African-Americans . . .

Kroft: You were raised in a white household?

Obama: Right.

Kroft: Yet at some point, you decided that you were black?

It is a debate which tells us at least as much, if not more, about America's racial, ethnic and political obsessions than it does about Obama. So do these perceptions matter? Why do they matter? And how?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/mar/01/usa.uselections2008

Is Obama Black Enough?

For all the predictable outrage Joe Biden's recent comments about Barack Obama elicited, the gaffe put a spotlight on one of the more unfortunate forces fueling Obamania. Ever since Barack Obama first ascended the national stage at the 2004 Democratic convention, pundits have been tripping over themselves to point out the difference between him and the average Joe from the South Side. Obama is biracial, and has a direct connection with Africa. He is articulate, young and handsome. He does not feel the need to yell "Reparations now!" into any available microphone.

But this is a double-edged sword. As much as his biracial identity has helped Obama build a sizable following in middle America, it's also opened a gap for others to question his authenticity as a black man. In calling Obama the "first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," the implication was that the black people who are regularly seen by whites — or at least those who aspire to the highest office in the land — are none of these things. But give Biden credit — at least he acknowledged Obama's identity.

The same can't be said for others. "Obama's mother is of white U.S. stock. His father is a black Kenyan," Stanley Crouch recently sniffed in a New York Daily News column entitled "What Obama Isn't: Black Like Me." "Black, in our political and social vocabulary, means those descended from West African slaves," wrote Debra Dickerson on the liberal website Salon. Writers like TIME and New Republic columnist Peter Beinart have argued that Obama is seen as a "good black," and thus has less of following among black people. Meanwhile, agitators like Al Sharpton are seen as the authentic "bad blacks." Obama's trouble, asserted Beinart, is that he will have to prove his loyalty to The People in a way that "bad blacks" never have to. Obama, for his part, settled this debate some time ago. "If I'm outside your building trying to catch a cab," he told Charlie Rose, "they're not saying, 'Oh, there's a mixed race guy.'" Obama understands what all blacks, including myself, know all too well — that Amadou Diallo's foreign ancestry could not prevent his wallet from morphing into a gun in the eyes of the police.

For years pundits excoriated young black kids for attacking other smart successful black kids by questioning their blackness. But this is suddenly permissible for presidential candidates. Beinart's good black/bad black dynamic is the sort of armchair logic that comes from not spending much time around actual black people. As the New Republic points out, Sharpton has an overstated following among black people. In 2004, when Sharpton ran for President, his traction among his alleged base was underwhelming. In South Carolina, where almost half of all registered Dems were black, both John Kerry and John Edwards received twice as many black votes as Sharpton. But this hasn't stopped media outlets from phoning Sharpton whenever something even remotely racial goes down. And it hasn't stopped writers from touting Sharpton's presumed popularity among black people, as opposed to "palatable" black people like Obama.

The black-on-black argument seemed to be bolstered by recent polls showing Obama significantly trailing Hillary Clinton among black voters. But reading into poll numbers that way is a clever device, hatched by mainstream (primarily white) journalists who are shocked — shocked! — to discover that black people aren't as dumbstruck by Obama as they are.

What they fail to understand is that African-Americans meet other intelligent, articulate African-Americans all the time. In almost every cycle since 1984, at least one of these brave chaps has run for President. Forgive us if we don't automatically pledge our votes to Obama and instead make judgments based on things besides skin color — like, heaven forbid, issues. Joe Biden may have misspoken — and in the process probably destroyed any remote hopes of winning the nomination — but he spoke truthfully for a lot of his ilk; Obamania is rooted in the belief that 50 Cent, not Barack Obama, represents the real black America.

Back in the real world, Obama is married to a black woman. He goes to a black church. He's worked with poor people on the South Side of Chicago, and still lives there. That someone given the escape valve of biraciality would choose to be black, would see some beauty in his darker self and still care more about health care and public education than reparations and Confederate flags is just too much for many small-minded racists, both black and white, to comprehend.

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1584736,00.html

McSquishi:
[s]What a simpleton. Firstly, if my demeanor was anything it was patronizing, condescending, and annoyed, never angry. Learn some adjectives, increase that vocabulary.

And back to your reading comprehension issues: it was I who first commented on mixed ppl who are "confused" and don't feel comfortable w/ Black identity. Not Miss Detroit. You labeling that something she was correct abt shows how lost you are in the convo, smh.[/s]

The other point where you claim she is right is also stupid. You admit Black ppl accept mixed ppl as Black. That was what I stated, and what she disagreed with. That a mixed person may have their blackness questioned is not an impossibility. But so is the Blackness questioned of anyone who doesn't talk a certain way, eat a certain food, know a certain cultural reference, come from a certain place etc etc. mixed ppl are not the disadvantaged outcasts they were stated to be.
[s]
What Black man of any esteem repeats & attempts to validate race based insults he hears "White guys" say? Shameful. What a coon.

You call me a chihuahua but you are the one yip yipping at my heels after every comment i make. So what breed of female dog does that make you?

Ok that's really my last one. Any way to block imbeciles?? [/s]

SirShymexx:
cc: McSquishi

Enjoy these articles from 2007:

Exhibit one (Gary Younge):



Exhibit two (TIME Magazine 2007):



So, are you going to shut ya gob and stop arguing like an obnoxious angry black woman now?

SirShymexx:
Lmao @ an incorrigible dunderhead with atrocious grammar and sentence construction talking about adjectives. You honestly don't want me to unleash the adjectives in my repertoire/lexicon on you. Better ask ya fellow villagers - I'm just keeping it calm for now. Unless you want to cry tonight with ya self-esteem nuked to smithereens.

Anyway, I'll just pick the only sensible sentence in ya incoherent and illiterate soliloquy and, ask you a question based on that. So, if you're a product of two groups and one doesn't accept you, while the acceptance from the other group has a few asterisks on it - does that make you an outcast - yes, or no?

McSquishi:
You just quoted 2 articles where talking heads discuss if Obama is Black enough for Black ppl. You don't quote any mainstream source w/ any data showing Black ppl didn't feel he was a black enough. & You won't find it. The best your article could do is look to Black support of Hillary, which I already addressed. The highlight about Hillary says exactly what I said: Black ppl didn't think the Black guy could win and that she was the presumptive nominee! Why would Black ppl not vote Obama bc he is half White but then support a White woman? That's just common sense. Obama being mixed race was not an issue. Growing up in Indonesia & Hawaii?? Perhaps. Having a White mom? No biggie.

& You didn't bold the part where it discusses the writer who doesn't agree with African-Americans calling Obama "one of us"... How could this be if he wasn't being accepted as "one of us"? Lmao. Both of your articles depend on an article written by ONE Black man, Stanley Crouch, to make the long leap in suggesting that Black America takes issue with Obama being biracial. It's fluff, unsubstantiated fluff, then as it is now.

the articles you linked don't make your point... like at all.

But since you seem to be in this re: back n forth to just argue, common sense be damned, I'll just say "you win" and maybe you won't bother me again? *crosses fingers*

McSquishi:
Are you really threatening to unleash words on me? Oh no! You're threatening to make me cry by calling me mean things?! What a tough "man" you are! So big and bad on the internet that u can bring women to tears, ha! Your mom must be proud! Lmbao!

If I figure out how to block u I will. being stupid is one thing, but being arrogant + stupid simultaneously is sinful.

fin

SirShymexx:
Lol. It seems you have reading and comprehension problems and it's evident in ya English usage/grammar. I'll post excerpts from articles that specifically alluded to his biracial background as the reason why folks in the black community didn't think he's black enough. And perhaps you'll be able to grasp it.

Also, both sources are credible mainstream sources, from credible journalists, and the premise of both articles was the sentiment prevalent in the black community at the time.

Gary Young (Guardian UK, 2007):
- His mixed-race heritage and solid midwestern timbre have left some claiming he is not black at all.
- Some refer to Obama as a racial category all to himself: in the eyes of those who praise him he is a new, different and (by implication) better kind of black politician than those who have previously strode across the American political landscape. To others his background suggests a lack of authenticity. He's black alright, but simply not "black enough". A poll showing black Americans backed Hillary Clinton by three-to-one seemed to bear this out, although another poll in yesterday's Washington Post suggested that black voters are starting to support the black candidate in greater numbers.

TIME Magazine 2007:
- As much as his biracial identity has helped Obama build a sizable following in middle America, it's also opened a gap for others to question his authenticity as a black man.
- The black-on-black argument seemed to be bolstered by recent polls showing Obama significantly trailing Hillary Clinton among black voters. But reading into poll numbers that way is a clever device, hatched by mainstream (primarily white) journalists who are shocked — shocked! — to discover that black people aren't as dumbstruck by Obama as they are.

Is that too difficult for you to read and comprehend, angry black woman? And what's ya level of education cos you sound like someone who dropped out of school, due to unwanted pregnancy?

SirShymexx:
Lol. I'm not a tough man on the internet - I just educate stark illiterates as a service to humanity. And as a black man, it's each one, teach one, with me. But in the real world, I'm really a big bad wolf - wooof wooof.

Anyway, today is ya lucky day. I just checked ya profile and in as much as ya face looks a tad off, the cleavage looks nice. So, I'll let it slide cos of the cleavage.

McSquishi:
No proof that it was the prevalent sentiment at the time and not fluff from talking heads. Just say it & it's so. LOL. And wait, like Miss Detroit you're not even American?? smh

Nubian113:
Mix race, and others, are boxes one ticks on all equal opportunity forms you sign along side black and white. So in case some people forgot mixed race people Dont want to be black or white because most times they are both. So all your arguing sounds a lil juvi to me anyway...


Mixed race people are mixed race people ffs stop over complicating shi just to proof some irrelevant point.

SirShymexx:
So, you still couldn't grasp the excerpts I posted to you, no? Your case is irredeemable and it's typical with all the illiterate villagers on this forum. Most of you're obnoxious, obtuse, and vacuous - yet you walk around like you have got something up there, with cosign from fellow illiterate and ignorant villagers.

I guess you know better than TIME magazine and an award winning investigative journalist whose specialty is race matters, no?

McSquishi:
You putting down my looks from behind a faceless screenname confirms your cowardly lowlife status.

Nubian113:
Mix race, and others, are boxes one ticks on all equal opportunity forms you sign along side black and white. So in case some people forgot mixed race people Dont want to be black or white because most times they are both. So all your arguing sounds a lil juvi to me anyway...

Mixed race people are mixed race people ffs stop over complicating shi just to proof some irrelevant point.

McSquishi:
So your answer is no you don't have proof it was the prevalent view? The article you quoted doesn't even state it's the prevalent view. Or did I miss that excerpt? I've had enough. I said three or four posts ago that you win. Maybe you just crave attention from me your mom neglected to give you?

Anyway, my hubby echoes good advice I received earlier to ignore imbeciles like you. Maybe I should deactivate, you're too exhausting. (I bet reading that last part made u feel like a champ, huh? That's how u know you're a loser! )

SirShymexx:
Yes. But the reality out there is different.

I think in future, based on how there has been an increase in interracial marriages - they'll end up having their own unique ethnicity, just like the Arabs, and the Pardos in Brazil.

McSquishi:
Race is a social construct itself, so when it comes down to it there is no Black, White, or Mixed ppl, just different phenotypes expressing certain genes.

Still, in America there has long been a Black-White binary. I'm not even sure we have a "mixed race" category (does other count?) on our census yet like some other nations might.

Nubian113:
This might be just in my world but they do. My friends reply "Mixed race" when asked their ethnicity. And if you further enquire they'll give you countries like British and Nigerian or Irish and Jamaican. Most dislike being called black or white. Most are players and they play both races. Mixed race is an ethnicity in it's own right and ONLY closet racists talk all this non sense up there. No disrespect intended.

Nubian113:
Will You stop being a Sheldon from #bang_theory

I still prefer your logic but ain't you heard of the story of Jesus? Don't go down like that. Although we appreciate the time you take to share knowledge out of love for it can I add unlike some people who use it as a display of arrogance. But watch bp and your fingers when conversing with Africans on nl

SirShymexx:
Your friends sound delusional.

So being mixed race is an ethnicity on its own in the UK, yet the likes of David Haye, Zadie Smith, Dele Alli, Adam Afriyie, Chuka Umunna, Ashley Cole, Harvey (So Solid Crew), Alesha Dixon et al are referred to as black, no? Heck, even the Mark Duggan, whose death started the London riots and backlash on black people was mixed.

When I say most of you are obnoxious/ignorant - you'll start throwing hissy fit. Can you see how dumb you're (no pun intended)? And what's racist in saying the reality?

Mindfulness:
It is nice to know. Like I said, European countries differ greatly. Some of them are very well-developed whereas others are not and the level of development has a great impact on people's mentality and way of thinking.

Nubian113:
This might be just in my world but they do. My friends reply "Mixed race" when asked their ethnicity. And if you further enquire they'll give you countries like British and Nigerian or Irish and Jamaican. Most dislike being called black or white Most are players and they play both races. Mixed race is an ethnicity in it's own right and O closet racists talk all this non sense up there. No disrespect intended.

EnlightenedSoul:
Fairly said. Not to imply there aren't, in the same way, other experiences and pockets of intolerance in the US, but I find it hard to believe that some European countries could be more tolerant than the US as a whole. That's interesting, tho.

SirShymexx:
Another village illiterate sighted.

What do you lot even know about racial classification and acceptability outside ya villages in Africa?

Flashh:
[color=#225484]This is a very lame way in seeking for attention.

It won't insult you, because I won't like you to commit suicide because of me.[/color]

Sehindemi:
Oh..

Seeking for whose attention?
U? of all NLers??
Impossicant!

U only need to realize being senseless z a punishment..
And therefore U wud know who to battle words with next time..

As per committing suicide, I learnt it runs in Ur lineage..
Perhaps, It's now Ur turn..
It wudn't be thru me tho!

Go work on Urself..
Only a fool wudn't want to be corrected!

McSquishi:
I know how u used Kobe as an example. THAT was my point. Lots of ppl can say they were excluded or felt not Black enough w/out it ever having to do with being mixed. I used my personal experience with that to elucidate that point. All was lost on her and you too apparently.

Look, I can't make your reading comprehension issues my own. I won't. You are calling "Miss Detroit"'s views typical of some African Americans but what view is that exactly? You are simply talking out of your butt just in a more diplomatic and pseudo-intellectual way than she did. I understand you want to be captain save-a-dummy or play devil's advocate but please get your jollies w/out including me next time. Thanks

Truthpallbearer:
I won't say I know much or less, but I understand the ones I knew and can relate to what the discussion is all about. And as for me being a village man I take it as a compliment because from what I know we all have our respective villages. I don't see you as an educated man but a half-baked scholar with an over bloated ego. SirShymexx Salaam