₦airaland Forum

KingEbukasBlog:
Jesus is a historical figure not a myth . Jesus's prescience of false Christs who would come after His existence was documented in the bible as seen in the aforementioned verse . Outlandish , weak and blatant claims that Christ is a myth is nothing more than a cavil . Why are you resorting to a back and forth

Lol.muhammad also said false christs and prophets would come after him as documented in the glorious quran .so therefore by ur glorious logic.weak and blatant claims that muhammad is a myth is nothing more than a cavil

KingEbukasBlog:
That thread perfectly answers your questions bro . I can't indite a verbiage now when a thread has done the job

Lmao.. ... Common i thought you could try and at least attempt them...

we are not in that thread are we? this is another different thread and my questions are here which was an express reply to a post you made here

KingEbukasBlog:
My "religion" was founded on the teachings of CHrist . Paul and Christ's disciples were astonished by the miracles and His prescience . They witnessed the death and resurrection of Christ . And were rest assured that he was God indeed
I don't how other religions did it

-Islam was founded on the teachings of Muhammed who also lays claims
to
outstanding Miracles and presence of God too.
(Somehow ended up having a very different concept from yours even though
both allegedly got a first hand presence feel of the 'God')

-Confucianism is founded on the teachings of Confucius

-Buddhism founded on the teachings of Buddha..

So how does this make yours any better ? Now this still does not answer
the question which is

-Tell us how religions perceived this being in order to assert it actually
existed at all

-So how can religious even tender any understanding of an inscrutable
entity which turns out to be different with every religion..
(Isn't these characters then works of assumptions? )

johnydon22:
Lmao aren't you the same person that thinks that because the bible recorded the alleged words of Jesus then it proves Jesus was a deity?

So how come when faced with the same situation as in the case of Muhammed that logic breaks down?..

Since biblical accounts in your own idea proves a deity Jesus doesn't the Quranic accounts also prove Muhammad flew on a flying horse then?

The logic didn't break down .

1. Muhammed is not deity

2. There are mystical events in every religion . There are powers in every religion that compel its adherents to believe its actually true E.g That's why Elijah challenged the prophets of Baal - to prove the superior power .

3. It could be an allegorical or metaphorical

Stop making false accusations and straw man bro . I didn't say the story is not true , I adjured you to ask a Muslim

urahara:
Lol.muhammad also said false christs and prophets would come after him as documented in the glorious quran .so therefore by ur glorious logic.weak and blatant claims that muhammad is a myth is nothing more than a cavil

I never said Muhammed was a myth . Muhammed was a historical figure .

KingEbukasBlog:
I never said Muhammed was a myth . Muhammed was a historical figure .

This guy is confused

johnydon22:
Lmao.. ... Common i thought you could try and at least attempt them...

we are not in that thread are we? this is another different thread and my questions are here which was an express reply to a post you made here



-Islam was founded on the teachings of Muhammed who also lays claims
to
outstanding Miracles and presence of God too.
(Somehow ended up having a very different concept from yours even though
both allegedly got a first hand presence feel of the 'God')

-Confucianism is founded on the teachings of Confucius

-Buddhism founded on the teachings of Buddha..

So how does this make yours any better ? Now this still does not answer
the question which is

-Tell us how religions perceived this being in order to assert it actually
existed at all

-So how can religious even tender any understanding of an inscrutable
entity which turns out to be different with every religion..
(Isn't these characters then works of assumptions? )

You asked for it bro .

winner01:
There is no doubt that the number of different religions in the world makes it a challenge to know which one is correct. First, let’s consider some thoughts on the overall subject and then look at how one might approach the topic in a manner that can actually get to a right conclusion about God. The challenge of different answers to a particular issue is not unique to the topic of religion. For example, you can sit 100 math students down, give them a complex problem to solve, and it is likely that many will get the answer wrong. But does this mean that a correct answer does not exist? Not at all. Those who get the answer wrong simply need to be shown their error and know the techniques necessary to arrive at the correct answer.

How do we arrive at the truth about God? We use a systematic methodology that is designed to separate truth from error by using various tests for truth, with the end result being a set of right conclusions. Can you imagine the end results a scientist would arrive at if he went into the lab and just started mixing things together with no rhyme or reason? Or if a physician just started treating a patient with random medicines in the hope of making him well? Neither the scientist nor the physician takes this approach; instead, they use systematic methods that are methodical, logical, evidential, and proven to yield the right end result.

This being the case, why should theology—the study of God—be any different? Why believe it can be approached in a haphazard and undisciplined way and still yield right conclusions? Unfortunately, this is the approach many take, and this is one of the reasons why so many religions exist. That said, we now return to the question of how to reach truthful conclusions about God. What systematic approach should be used? First, we need to establish a framework for testing various truth claims, and then we need a roadmap to follow to reach a right conclusion. Here is a good framework to use:

1. Logical consistency—the claims of a belief system must logically cohere to each other and not contradict in any way. As an example, the end goal of Buddhism is to rid oneself of all desires. Yet, one must have a desire to rid oneself of all desires, which is a contradictory and illogical principle.

2. Empirical adequacy—is there evidence to support the belief system (whether the evidence is rational, externally evidential, etc.)? Naturally, it is only right to want proof for important claims being made so the assertions can be verified. For example, Mormons teach that Jesus visited North America. Yet there is absolutely no proof, archaeological or otherwise, to support such a claim.

3. Existential relevancy—the belief system should address the big questions of life described below and the teachings should be accurately reflected in the world in which we live. Christianity, for example, provides good answers for the large questions of life, but is sometimes questioned because of its claim of an all-good and powerful God who exists alongside a world filled with very real evil. Critics charge that such a thing violates the criteria of existential relevancy, although many good answers have been given to address the issue.

The above framework, when applied to the topic of religion, will help lead one to a right view of God and will answer the four big questions of life:

1. Origin – where did we come from?
2. Ethics – how should we live?
3. Meaning – what is the purpose for life?
4. Destiny – where is mankind heading?

But how does one go about applying this framework in the pursuit of God? A step-by-step question/answer approach is one of the best tactics to employ. Narrowing the list of possible questions down produces the following:

1. Does absolute truth exist?
2. Do reason and religion mix?
3. Does God exist?
4. Can God be known?
5. Is Jesus God?
6. Does God care about me?

First we need to know if absolute truth exists. If it does not, then we really cannot be sure of anything (spiritual or not), and we end up either an agnostic, unsure if we can really know anything, or a pluralist, accepting every position because we are not sure which, if any, is right.

Absolute truth is defined as that which matches reality, that which corresponds to its object, telling it like it is. Some say there is no such thing as absolute truth, but taking such a position becomes self-defeating. For example, the relativist says, “All truth is relative,” yet one must ask: is that statement absolutely true? If so, then absolute truth exists; if not, then why consider it? Postmodernism affirms no truth, yet it affirms at least one absolute truth: postmodernism is true. In the end, absolute truth becomes undeniable.

Further, absolute truth is naturally narrow and excludes its opposite. Two plus two equals four, with no other answer being possible. This point becomes critical as different belief systems and worldviews are compared. If one belief system has components that are proven true, then any competing belief system with contrary claims must be false. Also, we must keep in mind that absolute truth is not impacted by sincerity and desire. No matter how sincerely someone embraces a lie, it is still a lie. And no desire in the world can make something true that is false.

The answer of question one is that absolute truth exists. This being the case, agnosticism, postmodernism, relativism, and skepticism are all false positions.

This leads us to the next question of whether reason/logic can be used in matters of religion. Some say this is not possible, but—why not? The truth is, logic is vital when examining spiritual claims because it helps us understand why some claims should be excluded and others embraced. Logic is absolutely critical in dismantling pluralism (which says that all truth claims, even those that oppose each other, are equal and valid).

For example, Islam and Judaism claim that Jesus is not God, whereas Christianity claims He is. One of the core laws of logic is the law of non-contradiction, which says something cannot be both “A” and “non-A” at the same time and in the same sense. Applying this law to the claims Judaism, Islam, and Christianity means that one is right and the other two are wrong. Jesus cannot be both God and not God. Used properly, logic is a potent weapon against pluralism because it clearly demonstrates that contrary truth claims cannot both be true. This understanding topples the whole “true for you but not for me” mindset.

Logic also dispels the whole “all roads lead to the top of the mountain” analogy that pluralists use. Logic shows that each belief system has its own set of signs that point to radically different locations in the end. Logic shows that the proper illustration of a search for spiritual truth is more like a maze—one path makes it through to truth, while all others arrive at dead ends. All faiths may have some surface similarities, but they differ in major ways in their core doctrines.

The conclusion is that you can use reason and logic in matters of religion. That being the case, pluralism (the belief that all truth claims are equally true and valid) is ruled out because it is illogical and contradictory to believe that diametrically opposing truth claims can both be right.

Next comes the big question: does God exist? Atheists and naturalists (who do not accept anything beyond this physical world and universe) say “no.” While volumes have been written and debates have raged throughout history on this question, it is actually not difficult to answer. To give it proper attention, you must first ask this question: Why do we have something rather than nothing at all? In other words, how did you and everything around you get here? The argument for God can be presented very simply:

Something exists.
You do not get something from nothing.
Therefore, a necessary and eternal Being exists.

You cannot deny you exist because you have to exist in order to deny your own existence (which is self-defeating), so the first premise above is true. No one has ever demonstrated that something can come from nothing unless they redefine what ‘nothing’ is, so the second premise rings true. Therefore, the conclusion naturally follows—an eternal Being is responsible for everything that exists.

This is a position no thinking atheist denies; they just claim that the universe is that eternal being. However, the problem with that stance is that all scientific evidence points to the fact that the universe had a beginning (the ‘big bang’). And everything that has a beginning must have a cause; therefore, the universe had a cause and is not eternal. Because the only two sources of eternality are an eternal universe (denied by all current empirical evidence) or an eternal Creator, the only logical conclusion is that God exists. Answering the question of God’s existence in the affirmative rules out atheism as a valid belief system.

Now, this conclusion says nothing about what kind of God exists, but amazingly enough, it does do one sweeping thing—it rules out all pantheistic religions. All pantheistic worldviews say that the universe is God and is eternal. And this assertion is false. So, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and all other pantheistic religions are ruled out as valid belief systems.

Further, we learn some interesting things about this God who created the universe. He is:

• Supernatural in nature (as He exists outside of His creation)
• Incredibly powerful (to have created all that is known)
• Eternal (self-existent, as He exists outside of time and space)
• Omnipresent (He created space and is not limited by it)
• Timeless and changeless (He created time)
• Immaterial (because He transcends space)
• Personal (the impersonal can’t create personality)
• Necessary (as everything else depends on Him)
• Infinite and singular (as you cannot have two infinites)
• Diverse yet has unity (as all multiplicity implies a prior singularity)
• Intelligent (supremely, to create everything)
• Purposeful (as He deliberately created everything)
• Moral (no moral law can exist without a lawgiver)
• Caring (or no moral laws would have been given)

This Being exhibits characteristics very similar to the God of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, which interestingly enough, are the only core faiths left standing after atheism and pantheism have been eliminated. Note also that one of the big questions in life (origins) is now answered: we know where we came from.

This leads to the next question: can we know God? At this point, the need for religion is replaced by something more important—the need for revelation. If mankind is to know this God well, it is up to God to reveal Himself to His creation. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity all claim to have a book that is God’s revelation to man, but the question is which (if any) is actually true? Pushing aside minor differences, the two core areas of dispute are 1) the New Testament of the Bible 2) the person of Jesus Christ. Islam and Judaism both claim the New Testament of the Bible is untrue in what it claims, and both deny that Jesus is God incarnate, while Christianity affirms both to be true.

There is no faith on the planet that can match the mountains of evidence that exist for Christianity. From the voluminous number of ancient manuscripts, to the very early dating of the documents written during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses (some only 15 years after Christ’s death), to the multiplicity of the accounts (nine authors in 27 books of the New Testament), to the archaeological evidence—none of which has ever contradicted a single claim the New Testament makes—to the fact that the apostles went to their deaths claiming they had seen Jesus in action and that He had come back from the dead, Christianity sets the bar in terms of providing the proof to back up its claims. The New Testament’s historical authenticity—that it conveys a truthful account of the actual events as they occurred—is the only right conclusion to reach once all the evidence has been examined.

When it comes to Jesus, one finds a very curious thing about Him—He claimed to be God in the flesh. Jesus own words (e.g., “Before Abraham was born I AM”), His actions (e.g., forgiving sins, accepting worship), His sinless and miraculous life (which He used to prove His truth claims over opposing claims), and His resurrection all support His claims to be God. The New Testament writers affirm this fact over and over again in their writings.

Now, if Jesus is God, then what He says must be true. And if Jesus said that the Bible is inerrant and true in everything it says (which He did), this must mean that the Bible is true in what it proclaims. As we have already learned, two competing truth claims cannot both be right. So anything in the Islamic Koran or writings of Judaism that contradict the Bible cannot be true. In fact, both Islam and Judaism fail since they both say that Jesus is not God incarnate, while the evidence says otherwise. And because we can indeed know God (because He has revealed Himself in His written Word and in Christ), all forms of agnosticism are refuted. Lastly, another big question of life is answered—that of ethics—as the Bible contains clear instructions on how mankind ought to live.

This same Bible proclaims that God cares deeply for mankind and wishes all to know Him intimately. In fact, He cares so much that He became a man to show His creation exactly what He is like. There are many men who have sought to be God, but only one God who sought to be man so He could save those He deeply loves from an eternity separated from Him. This fact demonstrates the existential relevancy of Christianity and also answers that last two big questions of life—meaning and destiny. Each person has been designed by God for a purpose, and each has a destiny that awaits him—one of eternal life with God or eternal separation from Him. This deduction (and the point of God becoming a man in Christ) also refutes Deism, which says God is not interested in the affairs of mankind.

In the end, we see that ultimate truth about God can be found and the worldview maze successfully navigated by testing various truth claims and systematically pushing aside falsehoods so that only the truth remains. Using the tests of logical consistency, empirical adequacy, and existential relevancy, coupled with asking the right questions, yields truthful and reasonable conclusions about religion and God. Everyone should agree that the only reason to believe something is that it is true—nothing more. Sadly, true belief is a matter of the will, and no matter how much logical evidence is presented, some will still choose to deny the God who is there and miss the one true path to harmony with Him.

Pyrrho:
This guy is confused

You are the confused one here . Apparently you dont understand a thing here . But its ok , leave the perspicacious ones to take care of things

KingEbukasBlog:
The logic didn't break down .

1. Muhammed is not deity
2. There are mystical events in every religion . There are powers in every religion that compel its adherents to believe its actually true E.g That's why Elijah challenged the prophets of Baal - to prove the superior power .
3. It could be an allegorical or metaphorical
Stop making false accusations and straw man bro . I didn't say the story is not true , I adjured you to ask a Muslim

Hahahahahaha this still is not the point i do not know if you know what straw man is..

-You think Jesus is a deity because the bible said so

then following that line of thought... One can also rightly say

-Muhammed rode a flying horse since the Quran said so..

-Olumba Olumba Obu still claims to be a deity just like Jesus

It was a very clear road..

Simply used to show you that Because your religious book said something doesn't make it true..

That you believe one particular fable over the other doesn't make yours true because others also believe theirs to be true.

So you see?

Do you still think since the bible said something then that thing must be true meaning your hallmark for determining what is, is based on your personal beliefs.

KingEbukasBlog:
I never said Muhammed was a myth . Muhammed was a historical figure .

Exactly the point .. So since Muhammed is a historical figure does this prove he actually rode a flying horse?

KingEbukasBlog:
You are the confused one here . Apparently you dont understand a thing here . But its ok , leave the perspicacious ones to take care of things

Are there any other religious fellow who is willing to debate an agnostic-atheist?

This is one here is making a big fool of himself.

johnydon22:
Exactly the point .. So since Muhammed is a historical figure does this prove he actually rode a flying horse?

You dont get it . I am not saying its not true . I just adjured you to ask a muslim if its true . It might even be metaphorical for rise to power or anything .

KingEbukasBlog:
You asked for it bro .

This didn't really answer the question but a classical case of apologetic work for a particular belief system..

the question remains

-Islam was founded on the teachings of Muhammed who also lays claims
to
outstanding Miracles and presence of God too.
(Somehow ended up having a very different concept from yours even though
both allegedly got a first hand presence feel of the 'God')

-Confucianism is founded on the teachings of Confucius

-Buddhism founded on the teachings of Buddha..

So how does this make yours any better ? Now this still does not answer
the question which is

-Tell us how religions perceived this being in order to assert it actually
existed at all

-So how can religious even tender any understanding of an inscrutable
entity which turns out to be different with every religion..
(Isn't these characters then works of assumptions? )

Try and understand it...

Pyrrho:
Are there any other religious fellow who is willing to debate an agnostic-atheist?

This is one here is making a big fool of himself.

Your Nairaland account , your opinion

KingEbukasBlog:
I never said Muhammed was a myth . Muhammed was a historical figure .

We never said jesus was a myth.jesus was a historical figure.

KingEbukasBlog:
You dont get it . I am not saying its not true . I just adjured you to ask a muslim if its true . It might even be metaphorical for rise to power or anything .

LMAO.. No we are not asking you whether it is true or not...

-You said Jesus is a historical figure therefore proves he's God.

-Now the question is: since muhammed also is a historical figure does it prove he also rode baruq?

Marvel comics also had a story where Neil Degress tyson met superman, since Neil is actually a living human now does this prove he actually met Superman?

If no then it shows fables also are centered around actual figures but it doesn't still make the fable true.

johnydon22:
Hahahahahaha this still is not the point i do not know if you know what straw man is..

-You think Jesus is a deity because the bible said so

then following that line of thought... One can also rightly say

-Muhammed rode a flying horse since the Quran said so..

-Olumba Olumba Obu still claims to be a deity just like Jesus

It was a very clear road..

Simply used to show you that Because your religious book said something doesn't make it true..

That you believe one particular fable over the other doesn't make yours true because others also believe theirs to be true.

So you see?

Do you still think since the bible said something then that thing must be true meaning your hallmark for determining what is, is based on your personal beliefs.

Well , the "religious book" made it clear that false christs would come after the lifetime of Christ and they did bro .

And Stop bringing other religions here , I can't answer for them . I have told you that there are powers in other religions that compel them to accept that they are actually the "true religion" .

A straw man is creating a false stance of your opponent's view on something so it can be refuted by you . I never made any claims here . You are falsely interpreting my views so you can be able to refute them - that's a straw man .

johnydon22:
LMAO.. No we are not asking you whether it is true or not...

-You said Jesus is a historical figure therefore proves he's God.

-Now the question is: since muhammed also is a historical figure does it prove he also rode baruq?

If not then it shows a fable conjured around a historical figure doesn't make the fable true..

'Back and forth' . I have already answered this . You can have whatever opinion or deduce whatever you wish of it , if its what makes you sleep bro .

urahara:
We never said jesus was a myth.jesus was a historical figure.

Funny guy

johnydon22:
And so the one you believe cannot be anymore than just a claim as others?
Don't you think the same way you think yours is legitimate others also think theirs is.
so you see?

So do you think Olumba Olumba Obu who claim to be God cannot be God but Jesus is because you believe his own claim right?

You see the point? So we are still waiting how Jesus's claim proves your own God anymore than Olumba olumba Obu's claim does?

And Yahweh and Co cannot be Jewish mythology? ?

You have to acknowledge that the more you praise Olumba, the more you argue against your belief as an atheist, unless you want to agree that Olumba indeed exits, which indeed is problematic.
Faith indeed is not designed to be questioned, as is well noted by Benjamin Franklin "The best way to see Faith is to shut the eye of Reason." Everything in this world has 50% chance of being true (either it is or it isn't), therefore the work of faith is to cling to the 50%, without considering the other 50%, except indeed you wish to change due to some events or the other.

This may seem stupid and illogical, but Einstein indeed noted "A question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others, crazy?" Pyrrho after studying in India, brought back the idea that "nothing
can be known for certain. The senses are easily fooled, and reason
follows too easily our desires." How can you be ever sure you are right, knowing full well that you're fallible? Even Bertrand Russell was of the idea that he would never die because of his belief, as he could be wrong.

Therefore, its actually a game of gamble, and staying as an atheist is contrary to sound wisdom as the stakes are high (you gain nothing at the end). Even Darwin in his "infinite wisdom", noted that "The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic", but according to Margaret Thatcher "Standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous; you get knocked down by the traffic from both sides." Anyone who takes a middle course in a situation in which one must be right can never be right.

It is therefore of sound wisdom to choose a sound religion and stick to it. As C.S Lewis duly noted "Christianity, if false, is not important. If Christianity is true, however, it is of infinite importance. What it cannot be is moderately important." Christianity is the best bet (maybe indeed I am led astray by my desire, but indeed by luck I might be right. This indeed is what makes Faith sweet). This indeed was duly noted by Victor Hugo
"A faith is a necessity to a man. Woe to him who believes in nothing." (emphasis on first "A"

KingEbukasBlog:
Well , the "religious book" made it clear that false christs would come after the lifetime of Christ and they did bro .

And Stop bringing other religions here , I can't answer for them . I have told you that there are powers in other religions that compel them to accept that they are actually the "true religion" .

A straw man is creating a false stance of your opinion's view on something so it can be refuted by you . I never made any claims here . You are falsely interpreting my views so you can be able to refute them - that's a straw man .

Your own religious book which is not a hallmark of truthful deduction.

Judaism rejects the Jesus Messiah claim from basis derived from their own religious books.

But you believe it none the less..

So you see thinking others are false prophecies doesn't make yours any better..

it's all a matter of "belief"

everyone believe theirs the same way you believe yours, none is either proven or better than the other.

You cannot ask me to leave these other claims behind because all of them are similar instances and therefore if you can assert yours is true because your book said so and others also say so.

Shows this is a game of everyone believing their own doctrinal assumptions...

You cannot use a claim as a proof to a claim.. (Jesus is a deity because the bible said so)
it's just as laughable as a muslim saying Muhammed rode a flying horse because the Quran said so.

KingEbukasBlog:
'Back and forth' . I have already answered this . You can have whatever opinion or deduce whatever you wish of it , if its what makes you sleep bro .

Nope you didn't answer it ...you only said

You dont get it . I am not saying its not true . I just adjured you to ask a muslim if its true . It might even be metaphorical for rise to power or anything .

I am using those similar instances to show you just how ridiculous it is to claim your belief is true because your religious book said so.

Saying Jesus is a deity because he is a historical figure is exactly as ridiculous as saying Muhammed rode baruq because he is a historical figure or Neil Degress met superman because Neil actually exists right now..

Misogynist2014:
You have to acknowledge that the more you praise Olumba, the more you argue against your belief as an atheist, unless you want to agree that Olumba indeed exits, which indeed is problematic.

I wonder where you guys drop your brains when coming to drag me down some nonsensical arguments.

-Olumba Olumba Obu claims he is a deity
-Jesus claimed so
-Chinese emperors claimed same and even Akenaton of egypt.

A believer would would believe any of the above an atheist would simply say they are all freaking humans with fables centered around them

A believer would even claim a stone is God or spaghetti, atheism means it's just a stone and a spaghetti..

-Believing that Jesus is a deity is not any better than also believing Olumba obu is also..

johnydon22:
Your own religious book which is not a hallmark of truthful deduction.

Judaism rejects the Jesus Messiah claim from basis derived from their own religious books.

But you believe it none the less..

So you see thinking others are false prophecies doesn't make yours any better..

it's all a matter of "belief"

everyone believe theirs the same way you believe yours, none is either proven or better than the other.

You cannot ask me to leave these other claims behind because all of them are similar instances and therefore if you can assert yours is true because your book said so and others also say so.

Shows this is a game of everyone believing their own doctrinal assumptions...

You cannot use a claim as a proof to a claim.. (Jesus is a deity because the bible said so)
it's just as laughable as a muslim saying Muhammed rode a flying horse because the Quran said so.

And you are believing your own assumptions too . Atheism is a tentative position for the belief in God . There are atheists who believe in spirits , reincarnation , karma , maledictions etc but not in God - a spirit too . Because you dont does not mean they are delusional . Stop falsely making up crap to validate your unbelief . For someone who believes his cognition as a human being is not an evidence of design but random chemical and biological processes as ludicrous as it is , you are not in any position to discredit someone's beliefs .

Let me reiterate , there are powers in different religions that compel adherents to believe they are actually true .

johnydon22:
I wonder where you guys drop your brains when coming to drag me down some nonsensical arguments.

-Olumba Olumba Obu claims he is a deity
-Jesus claimed so
-Chinese emperors claimed same and even Akenaton of egypt.

A believer would would believe any of the above an atheist would simply say they are all freaking humans with fables centered around them

A believer would even claim a stone is God or spaghetti, atheism means it's just a stone and a spaghetti..

-Believing that Jesus is a deity is not any better than also believing Olumba obu is also..

Jesus claimed ? The same Jesus that even in this modern time people call on and they received their healings and he appeared to some and even speaks to his prophets . There are a myriad of reasons why people believe Jesus is a deity not the because the bible said so but they have seen his good works in their lives . People in other religions experiencing similar mystical events means other "compelling powers" exist there .

KingEbukasBlog:
And you are believing your own assumptions too . Atheism is a tentative position for the belief in God . There are atheists who believe in spirits , reincarnation , karma , maledictions etc but not in God - a spirit too . Because you dont does not mean they are delusional . Stop falsely making up crap to validate your unbelief . For someone who believes his cognition as a human being is not an evidence of design but random chemical and biological processes as ludicrous as it is , you are not in any position to discredit someone's beliefs .

Let me reiterate , there are powers in different religions that compel adherents to believe they are actually true .

Dodgy dodgy nigga.his point is

The fact a book says so doesn't make it tru.

And if they are powers that compel adherents to bliv ax ur self y god gives fiction more power than truth

KingEbukasBlog:
And you are believing your own assumptions too . Atheism is a tentative position for the belief in God . There are atheists who believe in spirits , reincarnation , karma , maledictions etc but not in God - a spirit too . Because you dont does not mean they are delusional . Stop falsely making up crap to validate your unbelief . For someone who believes his cognition as a human being is not an evidence of design but random chemical and biological processes as ludicrous as it is , you are not in any position to discredit someone's beliefs .

Let me reiterate , there are powers in different religions that compel adherents to believe they are actually true .

Hahahahaha this doesn't still answer my question.. Aren't you the person guilty of the bolded avowing other beliefs of Human-deity claims are just false prophecies as your religious book said.

-then i used the Judaic texts now to also show you they outrightly discredit your own belief in a deity-messiah-jesus as a false claim.

i thought the post was quite coherent enough ..

Judaism rejects the Jesus Messiah claim from basis derived from their own
religious books.

But you believe it none the less..

So you see thinking others are false prophecies doesn't make yours any
better..

it's all a matter of "belief"

everyone believe theirs the same way you believe yours, none is either
proven or better than the other.

You cannot ask me to leave these other claims behind because all of them
are similar instances and therefore if you can assert yours is true because
your book said so and others also say so.

Shows this is a game of everyone believing their own doctrinal
assumptions...

You cannot use a claim as a proof to a claim.. (Jesus is a deity because the
bible said so)
it's just as laughable as a muslim saying Muhammed rode a flying horse
because the Quran said so.

KingEbukasBlog:
Jesus claimed ? The same Jesus that even in this modern time people call on and they received their healings and he appeared to some and even speaks to his prophets . There are a myriad of reasons why people believe Jesus is a deity not the because the bible said so but they have seen his good works in their lives . People in other religions experiencing similar mystical events means other "compelling powers" exist there .

I seem to also remember that many Christian sects also reject this your belief

This oga thinks mentioning Messi saved his asss too https://www.nairaland.com/2413419/mentioning-messi-saved-life-says Just same way this shows messi is also a deity and there is power in the name of Messi ..

So people claiming of experiencing mystical events makes their claims true? hahahahaha.. nawa oo.

I wonder why James Randi challenge have not been claimed yet ..

Or why none have actually shown us an amputated limb grow back... laying out claims of personal experience is just a complete bogus without empirical back-up..

Laying claims to mystical events does not validate your claim...

hehehe bolded since claims of miracles makes you assert a deity jesus doesn't it also show that claims of miracle also compels the adherents of cross and star to believe olumba as a deity.

You see, your claim is still not anymore weighty than theirs and still doesn't make yours true..

urahara:
Dodgy dodgy nigga.his point is

The fact a book says so doesn't make it tru.

And if they are powers that compel adherents to bliv ax ur self y god gives fiction more power than truth

God has the supreme power . The devil and his angels will fight as long it will preclude many people from witnessing the true power of God .

Christ warned us of false prophets who will do signs and wonders . How did they get that power since they are not true .

Mark 13 : 22

22for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect

KingEbukasBlog:
God has the supreme power . The devil and his angels will fight as long it will preclude many people from witnessing the true power of God .

Christ warned us of false prophets who will do signs and wonders . How did they get that power since they are not true .

You are still quoting your own religious book to invalidate other claims and dub them false prophecies ..

Same way Judaism rejects your own Messianic belief in Jesus also using their own book as a basis.

The point remains 'Your own religious book is not a hallmark for determining which is true or not same way you don't consider the Judaic Talmud a hallmark for it'

So you see, the claims of your own religion is still not any more weighty than others around..

The same way you think others are false is exactly how they consider yours false.

johnydon22:
I wonder where you guys drop your brains when coming to drag me down some nonsensical arguments.

-Olumba Olumba Obu claims he is a deity
-Jesus claimed so
-Chinese emperors claimed same and even Akenaton of egypt.

A believer would would believe any of the above an atheist would simply say they are all freaking humans with fables centered around them

A believer would even claim a stone is God or spaghetti, atheism means it's just a stone and a spaghetti..

-Believing that Jesus is a deity is not any better than also believing Olumba obu is also..

Oh most wise! I believe that the first paragraph indeed is your opinion and nothing more. Yes, there are indeed two ideas, the spiritualist and materialist. One ascribing spiritual to stone and spaghetti and other materialistic view to stone and spaghetti, what indeed makes you think you are right? According to Wikipedia, Fallibilism (from Medieval Latin: fallibilis , "liable to err" is the
philosophical principle that human beings could be wrong about their
beliefs, expectations, or their understanding of the world, and yet still
be justified in holding their incorrect beliefs.

Misogynist2014:
Oh most wise! I believe that the first paragraph indeed is your opinion and nothing more. Yes, there are indeed two ideas, the spiritualist and materialist. One ascribing spiritual to stone and spaghetti and other materialistic view to stone and spaghetti, what indeed makes you think you are right? According to Wikipedia, Fallibilism (from Medieval Latin: fallibilis , "liable to err" is the
philosophical principle that human beings could be wrong about their
beliefs, expectations, or their understanding of the world, and yet still
be justified in holding their incorrect beliefs.

Now continue reading your own reply until it makes sense to you and click.. this reply can actually help you

johnydon22:
I seem to also remember that many Christian sects also reject this your belief

This oga thinks mentioning Messi saved his asss too https://www.nairaland.com/2413419/mentioning-messi-saved-life-says Just same way this shows messi is also a deity and there is power in the name of Messi ..

So people claiming of experiencing mystical events makes their claims true? hahahahaha.. nawa oo.

I wonder why James Randi challenge have not been claimed yet ..

Or why none have actually shown us an amputated limb grow back... laying out claims of personal experience is just a complete bogus without empirical back-up..

Laying claims to mystical events does not validate your claim...

hehehe bolded since claims of miracles makes you assert a deity jesus doesn't it also show that claims of miracle also compels the adherents of cross and star to believe olumba as a deity.

You see, your claim is still not anymore weighty than theirs and still doesn't make yours true..

Seriously ? They thought he was American and he had to repeatedly say Messi's name to tell them he is an Argentine . A ransom was paid after obviously lower than they wanted because he was clearly not American . That was not a mystical event , he was just a smart guy whose ingenuity saved his life . But who knows ? We still give God thanks because God could have given him the idea and made the kidnappers figure out why he called Messi's name .

There are miracles like

Instant healing from insanity , blindness , lameness , dumbness etc .

There are more like being saved from a mishap . Like one I heard of a man who could not swim after the boat capsized . He kept on calling on God's name as he struggled for his life . He suddenly felt a power/force that pushed him upwards and kept him afloat . He couldn't believe it and tried descrying what made that happen as he peeped into the water . According to the testimony , anytime he tried looking into the water the force let go and he sunk . Just like in the bible with Peter and Jesus :

Matthew 14 : 29-30

29 So He said, “Come.” And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw that the wind was boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, “Lord, save me!”

31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?” 32 And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.

Apparently , he doubted that it was God's power and anytime he tried dissipating his doubts by looking into the water to know what exactly kept him afloat , he sunk . And help came his way after some time . I think others drowned , can't remember their fate .

There are millions of other testimonies even greater than that .