₦airaland Forum

Syncan:
Wow! Now I see one who does not sin . One who is ready for heaven because he does not commit any sin.

Yes. I'm not quarrelsome, I don't lack respect, I try as much as possible to live a life that is pleasant to GOD. I don't delude myself that I can continue meddling with sin and still not "fall from grace".

Syncan, stop beating about the bush. Answer these questions:

DoctorAlien:
Where are these sins mentioned in the Bible and tagged "sins not unto death"?

Even if you continue being quarrelsome, you will not fall from grace, according to you?

He said Christ "assured" him that the Heaven written in 2 Kngs 2:11 is not the Heaven where GOD lives.

How ludicrous can people get in defending their lies?

doctor alien have you read the verses i tagged you in,the ones that proved that there is possible atonement of sin after death?

or are you as usual going in circles and ignoring facts?

DoctorAlien:
Yes. I'm not quarrelsome, I don't lack respect, I try as much as possible to live a life that is pleasant to GOD. I don't delude myself that I can continue meddling with sin and still not "fall from grace".

Now I hear the Pharisee speaking and pointing at the publican. You don't show impatience, you offer charity to all you should, you never criticize, you don't ever use uncharitable words. Not every one of us is like you, we strive each day to overcome, but often times we find ourselves "into those things we try to avoid", like St. Paul. And just like him we "die daily", in discipline and reparation. We don't call scripture a liar by saying we are without sin. However, we know death can come at any time, and our work will burn if we have even one of those sins, but we are sure that the justice will not allow anything unclean into heaven, yet we know that the mercy of God will not put us in hell, yet we shall be saved so as by fire.

Syncan:
Now I hear the Pharisee speaking and pointing at the publican. You don't show impatience, you offer charity to all you should, you never criticize, you don't ever use uncharitable words. Not every one of us is like you, we strive each day to overcome, but often times we find ourselves into those things we try to avoid, like St. Paul. And just like him we die daily, in discipline and reparation. We don't call scripture a liar by saying we are without sin. However, we know death can come at any time, and our work will burn if we have even one of those sins, but we are sure that the justice will not allow anything unclean into heaven, yet we know that the mercy of God will not put us in hell, yet we shall be saved so as by fire.

So GOD will not put you in hell even when you stubbornly continue in quarrelsomeness. What delusion! Have you not heard that GOD is continually angry with the wicked? Or is being quarrelsome righteous?

joey150:
doctor alien have you read the verses i tagged you in,the ones that proved that there is possible atonement of sin after death?

or are you as usual going in circles and ignoring facts?

Do you agree with your brother Syncan that even if you continue in quarrelsomeness, you cannot "fall from grace"?

Joel150, if you have anything further to post you may continue, those who read are not all hard hearted. It matters not how the Jews mock Jesus, those who heard and recognized truth believed.

DoctorAlien:
So GOD will not put you in hell even when you stubbornly continue in quarrelsomeness. What delusion! Have you not heard that GOD is continually angry with the wicked? Or is being quarrelsome righteous?

Have some shame when you tell lies. No one has said a believer should continue in any sin, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound. However, scripture recognize that man is imperfect and says " he who says he is without sin makes God a liar", Also there are sins that does not lead to death. In Gal. 5, St Paul lists sins that will send one to hell, do you now accuse St. Paul of encouraging other sins he didn't list?

DoctorAlien:
Do you agree with your brother Syncan that even if you continue in quarrelsomeness, you cannot "fall from grace"?

na wetin i ask you so??



doctoralien will dilly dally and ignore all your facts,trying to get you to do all the talking and him all the asking. he will quickly abandon fact or reason amd quickly hold on to one word in your statement. when he does he'll turn it into another conversation then later he maybe agrees you where not wrong.

and then he brings you back to the original conversation..or he picks any verse that tickles his fancy and tell you to explain it. so he starts the same fiasco again..

no matter what
do not be like doctoralien. he really should be treating aliens.

hahahah! what a somebody!

Syncan:
Joel150, if you have anything further to post you may continue, those who read are not all hard hearted. It matters not how the Jews mock Jesus, those who heard and recognized truth believed.

thank you. your inputs have been very very helpful. i too have enjoyed your insightful answers and have learned from some of the things you outlined.

i have just a few things to add.. i believe we have said and debated it all. and i will post them soonest.

most of those that were here quoting sctiptures and disputing facts have all vanished into thin air.. they couldn't stomach the fact i guess.

doctoralien is hard luck,kind of unteachable... you cannot convince somebody that will not admit to the slightest of fact. that will never agree with reason. thats just him.
people like him usually in the end stumble on the truth themselves.

Syncan:
Have some shame when you tell lies. No one has said a believer should continue in any sin, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound. However, scripture recognize that man is imperfect and says " he who says he is without sin makes God a liar", Also there are sins that does not lead to death. In Gal. 5, St Paul lists sins that will send one to hell, do you now accuse St. Paul of encouraging other sins he didn't list?

Please can you show me a place that Paul says "quarrelsomeness" will not send you to hell?

Joey150, do you agree with your brother Syncan that if you continue in quarrelsomeness, you will not "fall from grace"?

DoctorAlien:
Joey150, do you agree with your brother Syncan that if you continue in quarrelsomeness, you will not "fall from grace"?

i guess you now want to dwell on quarrelsomeness now??

go and read what i posted just for you.. give me your feedback.

DoctorAlien:
Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Which Heaven did He tell you that was?

There are three heavens mentioned in Scripture, Elijah did not go to heaven where God is. Jesus said so! Tomorrow God willing I will show you more about this, for the benefit of those who love scriptures and want to learn.

joey150:
i guess you now want to dwell on quarrelsomeness now??

go and read what i posted just for you.. give me your feedback.

He is confounded. He is now clutching on straws rather than acknowledge truth. He even doubts Jesus now.

Syncan:
There are three heavens mentioned in Scripture, Elijah did not go to heaven where God is. Jesus said so! Tomorrow God willing I will show you more about this, for the benefit of those who love scriptures and want to learn.

Where did Elijah go?

This may be the article you're going to quote for me, Syncan: www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html

But I have few questions for you:

Where in the Bible does it say that Elijah was taken to another Heaven that is not the place where GOD is?

in the verse below, what does the word translate mean?

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because GOD had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased GOD" Heb. 11:5

Heb. 11:39 says Moses and co DID NOT receive the promise. What promise was being talked about here?

DoctorAlien:
Where did Elijah go?

DoctorAlien:
This may be the article you're going to quote for me, Syncan: www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html
But I have few questions for you:
Where in the Bible does it say that Elijah was taken to another Heaven that is not the place where GOD is?
in the verse below, what does the word translate mean?
"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because GOD had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased GOD" Heb. 11:5
Heb. 11:39 says Moses and co DID NOT receive the promise. What promise was being talked about here?

Wow! Splendid! Going through that Page you posted just felt like cool breeze, I could not help but whistle. What this showed me is that you can no longer say you didn't hear the truth. If you decide to harden your heart, na you sabi. For the sake of summary, let me put it this way:

Scripture makes mention of three heavens:
1. Terrestrial (on earth)- The sky where birds fly, the atmosphere, as seen in Genesis 1:20, Jeremiah 4:25; 34:20, Lamentations 4:19, Zephaniah 1:3.
2. Telestial (seen with aid of telescope) - outer space where the planets and stars exist, as seen in Genesis 1:14-17; 15:5; 22:17; 26:4, Deuteronomy 1:10; 17:3; Psalm 8:3, Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29
3.Celestial (Spiritual) - God's throne, and the heavenly jerusalem, as seen in Galatians 4: 26; Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 3:12), the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 25:1, James 2:5), the "eternal kingdom" (2 Peter 1:11)

The scripture made sure we know its in plural when we read in Psalm 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

In order to be confirm to DoctorAlien and his likes that Elijah was not taken to this third (celestial) heaven, no other person but Jesus himself had to speak, and he was very direct. He said in Jn.3:13:No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven. But did Doctoralien believe him? No. his heart is hardened like that of his fathers at meribah, when they put the Lord to the test. Smh.

DoctorAlien:
This may be the article you're going to quote for me, Syncan: www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html
...
in the verse below, what does the word translate mean?

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because GOD had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased GOD" Heb. 11:5
Heb. 11:39 says Moses and co DID NOT receive the promise. What promise was being talked about here?

On the issue of translate, having read that link, I will simply post the response as contained therein.

:
"The Bible does not say that Enoch went to heaven when he was translated. Instead, it says he "was not found." According to Strong's, Thayer's and Bullinger's Greek Lexicons, "translate" means "to put or place in another place, to transport, to transfer." Nowhere in the Scripture does ‘translate’ mean to make immortal!

The same Greek word is rendered "carried over" in Acts 7:16 where Jacob's body was ‘translated’ or ‘transported’ to Sychem, where he was buried! The Scriptures say Jacob was translated to the place of burial! God took Enoch and buried him somewhere so as not to be found, just as he did with the body of Moses in Deuteronomy 34:6. No man knows where Moses' or Enoch’s grave is. God hid them for reasons known only to Him.

Notice another proof that ‘translate’ does not mean to make immortal. Paul wrote that the Father "hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son" (Colossians 1:13). The apostle Paul says that he was already translated, even though he was still physically alive! Although he was once part of the darkness of this world, he was translated, removed from darkness, into the light of the kingdom of God while he was physically alive!"

On the matter of Promise, It's very clear, and that disproves your claim that they were in the heavenly kingdom before Jesus came. The promise as stated in that verse is the heavenly kingdom, and they never went there, that's why scripture says "they didn't receive the promise". Heb.11:39

This post will clarify all your doubt about the payment of tithe.
http://www.sujiandrewsblog.tk/2016/05/should-christians-pay-tithe.html
Be blessed in the name of our lord Jesus Christ!

Syncan:
On the issue of translate, having read that link, I will simply post the response as contained therein.



On the matter of Promise, It's very clear, and that disproves your claim that they were in the heavenly kingdom before Jesus came. The promise as stated in that verse is the heavenly kingdom, and they never went there, that's why scripture says "they didn't receive the promise". Heb.11:39

they later received their rewards after Jesus death.

DoctorAlien:
So, what do you have to say about the "when the ark was a preparing" part?

what do u not understan?

Ubenedictus:
they later received their rewards after Jesus death.

Exactly. That is after Christ the high priest entered once and for all into the most high place. Heb.9: 12. St. Paul actually went further to clear every doubt when he said" For that reason Christ is the one who arranges a new covenant, so that those who have been called by God may receive eternal blessings that God has promised. Heb.9:15

We have had to fight on this for centuries; do you think ladies have roles to play in pulpit ministry?
This blog will clarify all your doubts regarding this topic.
http://www.sujiandrewsblog.tk/2016/04/do-ladies-have-place-in-pulpit-ministry.html
Be blessed as you read in the name of our lord Jesus Christ!

ayoku777:
Purgatory and praying through Mary or through saints etc are heresis. They are inconsistent with the truth revealed in the scriptures. One would need to give twisted interpretation to clear verses of the bible or smuggle in extra-scriptural books to justify those roman catholic doctrines and traditions.

Purgatory is not in the bible, neither is there anywhere in scripture we are admonished to solicit for the intercession of saints in heaven.

Shalom!

To be honest, i didn't see that you replied because i haven't really had so much time for NL in the past week.

o.k i will respond to you main contribution now that i have picked ur view on Purgartory.

ayoku777:
I don't think, I know a believer can lose his salvation because many scriptures make that claim clear.

Here are some of the scriptures that show that salvation can be lost and that "Once saved always saved" doctrine is unscriptural.

1Timothy 4v1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

This wasn't just Paul talking; this was Paul saying what the Holy Spirit told him expressly; that some will depart from the faith in the last days.

Pardon my lateness , i haven't given NL so much time in the past week as i had things keeping me. I didn't wanna rush my response to you because i know it will be lengthy, so i took my time.

BESIDES, I WAS LAZY TO COME BACK TO THIS BUT THAT IS HOW THE DEVIL ALWAYS GETS US BUSY SO THAT THE TRUTH WON'T BE SHARED. SO PLEASE I MAY NOT HAVE PROPERLY ORGANIZED BY POST BECAUSE I'M NOT IN THE MOOD BUT I HAD TO DO THIS FOR THE SAKE OF GOD'S GRACE THAT WE ENJOY AND THOSE WHO WANT TO LEARN.

Anyways, to begin with, i disagree with you that it is unscriptural because i will show you scriptures now and some of the scriptures you quoted in your argument were out of context.

First and foremost, i will start by proofing to you according to the same scriptures that once you are saved, you are saved as long as you truly repented the first time.


1. JOHN 6:38-40. …38. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. 39. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of all those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. 40. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”…

Jesus actually came to carry out His Father's will and not His own will but the question is did Jesus succeed in His quest? Yes He did which was why He gave Himself up to be arrested. Before the arrest, when He told them that He was Jesus they all fell to the ground.

Jesus said "father let this cup to pass over me and later repented by saying let your will be done and not my will".

what is this will? That everyone who believes in Jesus shall not die and that is without any condition.


2. The bible says all have sinned and are fallen short of God's glory. ROMANS 3:23.

The question is that can the word of God be broken? No! The bible made it so so clear that ALL have sinned and that includes Christians and also the bible says a soul that sinner (which is ALL who have sinned) shall die. EZEKIEL 18:20. Going by this, then nobody will ever make heaven because even Christians today do sin and why didn't they die?

You yourself are you perfect? NO! do you know why you cannot die again the moment you receive Christ irrespective of what you committed? I will show you soon.

MANY CHRISTIANS ARE NOVICE CONCERNING THE KIND OF BLESSING WE HAVE RECEIVED FROM GOD AND ALSO THEY DO NOT KNOW THE EXTENT OF HIS LOVE AND SALVATION TOWARDS US. Jesus Salvation nor dey expire!


The great David who is a man of great faith whereby Jesus was named the son of David having come from his earthly linage HELPED US TO EXPLAIN THE KIND OF SALVATION THAT WE HAVE WITH JESUS.

Romans 4:5King James Version (KJV)

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The first step here is that we didn't do anything to earn this salvation but to only believe in Jesus Christ as our LORD and saviour.


Romans 4:6-7 King James Version (KJV)

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Now do you know what that means? This means that the kind of salvation we have in Christ is so so unique and such salvation covers sin.

what are iniquities? It is the act of performing a sin (like action) but Sin is the evidence of that action called iniquity.

Example: when you slap someone, that process of lifting ur hand to slap is the iniquity but the scare the slap will leave on the face of the victim is the sin.

The reason why God covers sin is that it is so dangerous that it cannot be wiped, it just leaves a scar there and the best thing to do is to cover it. You can forgive someone that slaps you which is forgiving the iniquity but you cannot say the scar of the slap will be removed if the person as for forgiveness. The damage would have been done, so God covers our sins, He doesn't even see it when we ask for forgiveness of our action.

REMEMEBER, I MENTIONED THIS IN ONE OF MY POSTS THAT IN CHRISTIANITY, WE DON'T BACKSLIDE, REPENT, THEN BACKSLIDE AGAIN AND REPENT. NO! Once you repent that first time and moved to the LORD'S SIDE, if you offend it doesn't take you away from His presence but you the offender must realize that you have wronged and repent of it because it does not gladen God to see us sin.

Romans 4:8King James Version (KJV)

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

THIS IS STILL DAVID TALKING IN THE NEXT VERSE, SAYING BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOM THE LORD WILL NOT IMPUTE SIN.


Oh this is great!!! Do you know what Impute means? let us see what google says about the word impute!

impute
ɪmˈpjuːt/Submit
verb
1.
represent (something, especially something undesirable) as being done or possessed by someone; attribute.

THE ABOVE VERSE MEANS THAT WHEN WE SIN (OFFEND), GOD WILL NOT TAKE IT AGAINST US AND AS FAR AS HE IS CONCERNED, WE DIDN'T SIN, because a soul that sinneth MUST die, meanwhile Jesus' blood has covered the sin of every believer. So how can God owe you responsible again for sin when He is not even seeing it by deliberately not imputing it.

LOOK AT THE ABOVE VERSE AGAIN, IT SAYS THE LORD "WILL NOT" AND NOT CANNOT BECAUSE IT IS A CHOICE HE HAS DECIDED TO MAKE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. WILL NOT MEANS, IT IS NOT AS IF WE DIDN'T COMMIT THE OFFENSE BUT HE WILL NOT JUST TAKE IT INTO RECORD.

MIND YOU, THIS IS DAVID EXPLAINING WHAT SORT OF BLESSEDNESS (SALVATION) WE HAVE RECEIVED FROM GOD.


…Romans 4:13King James Version (KJV)

[b]13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.[/B]

THE BIBLE IS SAYING HERE THAT OUR SALVATION CAME THROUGH FAITH WHICH IS BY BELIEVING IN JESUS CHRIST AS THE LORD AND NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW. WE BECAME HEIRS THE MOMENT WE BELIEVED IN HIM AND NONE THAT THE FATHER HAS GIVEN HIM CAN BE LOST WHICH IS THE ORIGINAL WILL OF GOD.

PLEASE BE MINDFUL THAT NOT ALL THAT FOLLOWS CHRIST OR GO TO CHURCH ARE CHRISTIANS OR TRUE BELIEVERS. JUDAS ISCARRIOT IS A BIG EXAMPLE AND JESUS CALLED JUDAS "THE SON OF PERDITION" THE ANTI-CHRIST IS OF COS COMING OUT OF THE CHURCH, COMING OUT OF THE CHRIST JUST AS ANTI-BODIES ARE INSIDE OUR OWN PHYSICAL BODIES ACCORDING TO BIOLOGY BUT JESUS MADE IT CLEAR THAT THOUGH THEY CAME OUT OF US BUT THEY ARE NOT OF US......... I will explain this much later.

PHARISEES GO TO CHURCH, DOES IT MAKE THEM CHRISTIANS OR FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST? NO!!


Romans 4:14King James Version (KJV)

…14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

WHAT THE ABOVE VERSE IS SAYING IS THIS.................. IF WE MAKE HEAVEN THROUGH OUR OWN WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS BY TRYING ALL MEANS NOT TO COMMITTING INIQUITY, THEN IT THAT JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE COME TO DIE FOR US.

GOD KNOWS WE CAN NEVER................. I REPEAT NEVER MAKE IT ON OUR OWN WHICH WAS WHY HE BROUGHT THE OPPORTUNITY OF BEING JUSTIFIED BY SOMEONE WHO FULFILLED THE LAW ON OUR BEHALF AND THAT OUR BELIEF WILL BE COUNTED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR ACTIONS OR WHAT WE HAVE DONE. THE PRINCIPLE SAYS ONCE YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS, IT HAS BECOME RIGHTEOUSNESS FOR YOU. However, there are acts of righteousness which is another thing and i might explain that too.



MORE..................... THIS IS THE FINAL NAILING.

Romans 4:15King James Version (KJV)

… 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.


AS IT STANDS NOW, WE ARE NO MORE UNDER THE LAW BECAUSE JESUS HAS FULFILLED THE LAW IN OUR STEAD, SO WE LIVE BY GRACE TODAY.

HENCE, THE ABOVE VERSE SAYS WHERE THERE IS NO LAW, THEN THERE CAN NEVER BE SIN. SO SINCE WE DO NOT LIVE BY THE LAW AGAIN, HOW CAN WE EVER SIN? THIS IS WHY IT SAYS GOD WILL NOT IMPUTE SIN BECAUSE IT IS COVERED (NON EXISTENCE) TO THE TRUTH BELIEVERS OF CHRIST. WHO ARE THE TRUTH BELIEVERS? THOSE THAT WALK IN THE TRUTH AND THE SPIRIT. THOSE WHO ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT ARE CALLED SON OF GOD ACCORDING TO JESUS. THIS IS THE SAME HOLY SPIRIT THAT JESUS GAVE US AS AN HELPER THAT SHOULD LED US AND HE ALONE CAN HELP US IN OUR PRAYER OF INTERCESSION BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO APPROACH GOD.


Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. ROMANS 8:26.

HERE IT STATES HERE THAT ONLY THE HOLY SPIRIT (REPRESENTING JESUS CHRIST) IS THE ONLY MEDIATOR OR INTERCESSOR THAT WE HAVE AND NOT MARY OR ANY OTHER SAINT. THOSE WHO ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT ARE GIVEN THE POWER TO BECOME THE SONS OF GOD.


For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. ROMANS 8:14.

MORE..............................

Romans 5:10King James Version (KJV)

… 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE SAYS FOR WHEN WE WERE SINNERS CHRIST DIED FOR US AND RECONCILED HIMSELF TO US; SO HOW CAN IT NOW BE THAT WHEN WE ARE ALREADY SAVE CAN WE NOW FALL OUT WITH GOD AGAIN?


… Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)


THE REASON WHY PEOPLE DIE IS NOT BECOS OF WHAT WE DID OR WHAT WE ARE ABOUT TO DO BUT IT WAS BECOS OF ADAM; HOWEVER, WHY WE ARE ALIVE TODAY IS because OF JESUS CHRIST. WHEN WE ALL DIED IN THE FIRST ADAM, WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING BUT WE ALL DIED IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN BUT WHEN WE SHALL LIVE AGAIN IN CHRIST WHY NOW DO YOU THINK WE HAVE TO WORK TO EARN IT? DO YOU KNOW WHAT ABUNDANCE OF GRACE AND "GIFT" OF RIGHTEOUSNESS MEANS? GIFT MEANS, WE DID NOTHING TO EARN IT, NOT BY TRYING TO BE PREFECT OR SELF HOLY.



… 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

THIS SAYS IT ALL. EVEN KNOW BORN BABY DIE BECAUSE OF ADAM DESPITE NOT COMMITTING ANY PHYSICAL SIN AT INFANT STAGE BUT WE SHARE ADAM'S NATURE, SO WE ALL SUFFER LOSS BUT ONCE BORN AGAIN AND HAVE A NEW NATURE, WE ARE ALL SAVED AND THE SALVATION IS NOT BECOS WE LIVED RIGHT OR APPEARED PURE. IT CAN ONLY WORK BY FAITH.


… 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

BECOS OF THE FIRST ADAM, ALL MEN ARE CALLED SINNER BUT IN CHRIST WE ARE MADE RIGHTEOUS AS EXPLAINED ALREADY.

… 5:20 Moreover the law ,entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace .did much more abound:



MORE...................................


WHEN ADAM SINNED, HE WAS ASHAMED BUT GOD DIDN'T CAST HIM OUT OF HIS PRESENCE because ADAM FIRST COVERED HIMSELF WITH LEAVES. THEN GOD WENT ON TO PICK THEM UP FROM THEIR SINFUL STATE AND CLOTHED THEM WITH ANIMAL SIN.

DO YOU THINK IT WAS THE COVERING THAT JUSTIFIED THEM? NO! ADAM TRIED TO JUSTIFY HIMSELF BY WORKS WHEN HE USE THE FIG LEAVES BUT GOD WAS STILL SEEING THEIR SINS, SO HE SHED BLOOD. GOD KILLED TWO ANIMALS, USED THEIR BLOOD FOR ATONEMENT AND ALSO USED THE SKIN AS APRON FOR THEM. WHY DO YOU THINK JESUS WAS CALLED THE LAMB OF GOD WHO SHED HIS BLOOD FOR THE WORLD?

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Hebrew 9:22.


YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE BLOOD OF JESUS HAS DONE FOR US BECAUSE THE BLOOD OF ANIMALS WAS NO LONGER ENOUGH TO COVER OUR SINS WHICH WAS WHY JESUS CAME. WHERE THERE IS NO SHEDDING OF NO BLOOD, THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS OF SIN.


THE LAW OF MOSES REQUIRES THAT BLOOD SHOULD BE SHED BEFORE FORGIVENESS OF SIN CAN BE OBSERVED AND JESUS TOLD US THAT HE CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW AND THAT WAS WHY HE SHED HIS OWN BLOOD AS GOD'S LAMB.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. MATT 5:15.

SO ONCE WE BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, WE HAVE FULFILLED THE LAW.


1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

BEING ASHAMED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUT SALVATION BUT PERSONAL REWARD. WHEN ADAM SINNED, HE WAS ASHAMED BUT GOD DIDN'T CAST HIM OUT OF HIS PRESENCE because HE CLOTHED THEM WITH ANIMAL SKIN THEREAFTER, INSTEAD ADAM LOST HIS REWARD WHICH IS INSIDE THE GARDEN OF EDEN. HENCE, ADAM MUST SUFFER TO GET EVERYTHING HE NEEDS BUT HE WAS STILL A CHILD OF GOD.

WHEN BELIEVE DO ALL MANNER OF STUPID THINGS, IT IS THERE REWARD THEY ARE TOILING WITH BECOS GOD IS GOING TO LOOK AT THE THINGS WE DID WHEN IT COMES TO WORKING FOR THE KINGDOM BUT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. OF COS, TRUE BELIEVERS WHO LIVE IN THE WAYS OF UNBELIEVERS WILL BE ASHAMED WHEN HE SHALL APPEAR BECAUSE THEY CAN NOT STAND THE FACT THAT THEY ARE SAVED BUT DISPLEASED GOD.

THE BLOOD OF JESUS COVERS OUR SINS DOES NOT FINISH, PLEASE DO NOT FORGET THAT.


THE LAST POINT IS THE PRODIGAL SON STORY FROM THE MOUTH OF JESUS HIMSELF.........................

WHEN THE SON ASKED HIS FATHER FOR ALL HE GOT AND WENT AWAY, HE CAME BACK.....BLA....BLA...BLA... WE ALL KNOW THE STORY SO I WON'T BORE YOU WITH THAT.

HOWEVER, THE FATHER REJOICED WHEN HE CAME BACK AND EVEN CELEBRATED HIM WITHOUT QUESTIONING. THE SON WANTED TO COME BACK TO HIS FATHER'S HOUSE AS A SERVANT (TRYING TO CHANGE HIS OWN STATUS) BUT HIS FATHER REBUKED HIM.

DURING HIS TIME OUTSIDE HIS FATHER'S HOUSE, IT DOESN'T CHANGE HIS STATUS AS A SON AND THE FATHER PROVED THAT WHEN HE WANTED TO ASSUME THE POSITION OF A SERVANT.

THAT IS HOW GOD SEES US BUT EVEN IF HE DOESN'T RETURN HOME, IT WILL STILL NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT HE IS A SON OF THAT MAN BUT WOULD HAVE DIED IN POVERTY (DENYING HIMSELF THE PRIVILEGE & RIGHTS OF BEING A SON).

SO YOU THINK IF THAT MAN WAS TOLD THAT HIS SON HAD FALLEN ILL OR DEAD BY THE WAY SIDE, THE FATHER WILL NOT GO AFTER HIM IF HE KNEW WHERE HIS SON WAS?


GOD IS GREATER THAN THAT MAN AND KNOWS ALL THINGS; THAT IS WHAT JESUS WAS TRYING TO TELL US.

If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! matt 7:11


FINAL NOTE.................... I DO NOT SAY YOU HAVE TO SIN BECAUSE IT IS NOT TAKEN AGAINST US BUT WHAT ABOUT HOW GOD FEELS OR OUR CONSCIENCE WHERE THE HOLY SPIRIT SPEAKS TO US?


This is not to criticize but to enlighten

looking at my post, it's way tooooo long , i wish i can make it short.

anyways, i will address your own points soon, using your post scripture to scripture because you spoke out of context.

why i wanna do that is because it will not be proper to say your points are wrong when i can not address it.

The bible does not and can never contradict itself, it's just that many read out of context.


i will address your points so.

nor mind me joor, na laziness dey worry me now.

16 pages...una don try.

All the anti-purgatory fans have seemed to have waned.
Am glad all questions where answered, or at least to a reasonable extent.

Thanks to syncan and the rest for their inputs too.
I think we have said all that needs to be said.

Have a nice sunday!

joey150:
16 pages...una don try.

All the anti-purgatory fans have seemed to have waned.
Am glad all questions where answered, or at least to a reasonable extent.

Thanks to syncan and the rest for their inputs too.
I think we have said all that needs to be said.

Have a nice sunday!

You are funny sha o! Please do not see my comment as trying to fight you but i responded only BECAUSE YOU SAID ANTI-PURGATORY FANS HAVE SEEMED TO HAVE WANED. I think that is a bit disrespectful .

I respect the fact that you created this thread but what you have refused to realize is that everybody cannot have same opinion and people's opinion has to be respected too as the creator of this trend.

You statement sounded like you are looking for a winner, instead we are here to educate ourselves even though we do not agree.
when people don't talk (especially someone like me), it is because i just want to make peace and not that i was convinced or accepted the myth called purgatory. I didn't accept it even in my silence and never will but i just stopped talking about it. The reason is that i realize the argument will never ever end. When people keep quite doesn't mean much but for me, i notice that it was getting heated and almost turning into something else, so i just backed out from it.

I'm silent on the issues because i want to maintain friendliness because obviously we might meet in other trends and i do not want to bear grieve.

This is the last i will talk on this purgatory issue for peace to reign, bearing in mind that the argument is in deadlock.

Cheers!

laribari:
You are funny sha o! Please do not see my comment as trying to fight you but i responded only BECAUSE YOU SAID ANTI-PURGATORY FANS HAVE SEEMED TO HAVE WANED. I think that is a bit disrespectful .

I respect the fact that you created this thread but what you have refused to realize is that everybody cannot have same opinion and people's opinion has to be respected too as the creator of this trend.

You statement sounded like you are looking for a winner, instead we are here to educate ourselves even though we do not agree.
when people don't talk (especially someone like me), it is because i just want to make peace and not that i was convinced or accepted the myth called purgatory. I didn't accept it even in my silence and never will but i just stopped talking about it. The reason is that i realize the argument will never ever end. When people keep quite doesn't mean much but for me, i notice that it was getting heated and almost turning into something else, so i just backed out from it.

I'm silent on the issues because i want to maintain friendliness because obviously we might meet in other trends and i do not want to bear grieve.

This is the last i will talk on this purgatory issue for peace to reign, bearing in mind that the argument is in deadlock.

Cheers!

nope, waned in this context meaning lost enthusiasm..this is not a competition bro.

and i respect everybody's opinion,regardless of whatever their ideas or views may be. and i always maintained we aired our various views responsibly. it was fun to see what the otherside felt and thinked like.

but truth be told,the main reason for most people quiting was because you met a strong arguement too. you expected us to be speechless in some areas,but there where lots of counter arguements from the catholics here. i guess you all couldnt make us look stupid as it is usually the norm. i have felt like that personally before.

all the same,my sincere thanks to everybody for their input,we all learnt something either way.

if everybody wouldn't believe in Jesus, the son of God many years ago.
who am i to complain that you rejected purgatory??
its all love....cheers!!

@Joey150.....my search for purgatory brought me to this thread today. Thank you for creating it and I am happy I stumbled across it. I used to be indifferent about the concept of purgatory, Sheol and other spiritual realms. Most people don't understand that the bible is a compilation of events in the past. Some scriptures are still being discovered and yet there is still so much we don't know.

I worry that we may not have anything to write because our generation is so divided and the Christian religion has lost most of its original messages. People now only pick parts that they feel comfortable with. I don't think its going to be easy explaining to anyone about the reality of purgatory.

Back to why I searched for this thread and I hope this helps whoever that will need it in the nearest future looking for answers.

I didn't really concern myself with the thought of hell or heaven. However, I released that I was seeing either people who were about dying or had died, I could see accidents before they happen, victims of very disturbing murder. I didn't understand why I was seeing all of these but I learnt later on that I just needed to pray for them. The message became clearer when one day I was taken to a place, it was not a good place at all but I realized later when I woke up, that it was Sheol. In that place, you could tell they were lost souls, the place was in chaos. It was a very unhappy place with really wicked people. I saw lesbians, murderers, and so many things that will take long to explain. I also saw that in that place there was a book with names. (Apparently as there is a Book of Life, there is also the Book of the Dead. There are many books, Book of Deeds, that will be another topic I'm too lazy to begin arguing on nairaland).

Anyway, I remember wanting to leave that place, I didn't want to be there. I asked for a way out but nobody seemed to care. I saw a lot things there but when I woke up I started searching for answers. It was the place where all the really bad people go to. And I don't mean if you tell a small lie or some lesser sin, it was like for really bad sins. That place also had different levels, there was a part that I got to that was very hot with lots of people, you could tell the furnace was close, it was darker but I didn't go nearer to find out, luckily I was pulled out.

What brought me to the purgatory issue. Well I was taken to another place at another time. It was different from Sheol, I saw a close family in this very dark place. Luckily no one saw me, he didn't see me but I could tell he was suffering. How? I can't say then I asked whoever was with me, if the person could recognise me but then I saw he couldn't see me. The person looked like the younger version of himself unlike when he died. I couldn't have known what he was like when he was young because I wasn't born then, but I recognized him. He had died over 13 years ago. So I decided that I would find out about purgatory and how to pray for people to get mercy. So I will implore you to pray for your loved ones and those that have passed away. Whether you believe or not, what if I'm not crazy, what if its real, at least nobody is asking you to do a bad thing. Prayers have always been good and praying for people shows love and how much you cared for them when they were alive. You can't argue purgatory away, just like you can't argue the earth away or the sun or moon. The fact that you don't see the place or there is no road to it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

That was what brought me to search for purgatory. There are apparently many levels of hell, Sheol, purgatory, etc. The old testament mentions these places but for some reason the Christian church today disregard it. It isn't spoken about because they tell people that when someone dies, they are sleeping until Jesus comes and judgment. We really don't understand what happens outside our existence and when people try to explain it, nobody wants to listen. They will call it false doctrine and ignore it until when they find themselves there. I saw these places and many more, and I will implore Christians to open the eyes of their heart, seek the Holy Spirit and ask these real questions to the Lord Jesus Christ so they can understand.

Purgatory is real, you can argue it out of nairaland but you can not argue its existence. They say knowledge is power, it is better you seek knowledge from God because there are so many things he will reveal to us. You can't keep a closed mind and claim to serve God. God is spirit and we must worship Him in truth and in spirit. We shouldn't be fighting with each other but learning and growing in faith. There are many mysteries we don't know and I pray that God helps us understand better.