Meanwhile on Wall Street

"All the country to the eastward of the Niger at this part is called Ibo, or Ibu, but is independent of Obi. Our interpreter, Simon Jonas, was a native of this dis- trict. He said that each town has its own separate chief. The principal place of worship is called Anno ; and is much larger than Aboh. The houses are high. The general trade is in slaves from the interior. The town is situated on the banks of the River Immo, which, above, flows through a rocky country ; the water is clear, and very rapid. Canoes can communicate with the River Immo at Anno, by means of connecting creeks from Aboh, by way of n'Doki. This river is probably the old Calebar, or Cross, explored by Beecroft in 1 84 1 . At the nearest point on that river, about seventy miles due east from the Niger at Onechah, there is a town called by that experienced navigator Acoono-coono ; above which the river actually passes through a rocky country. The clearness of its waters would appear to indicate its pas- sage through a lake higher up. Above Anno, Simon Jonas called it Abam-him, " the meeting of the waters." His account was confirmed by another native of that country.
Abreast of the Onechah River was an island or sand- bank, then overflowed, where the market called Onikh, or Kiri, before alluded to, is held. Near it, at Assaba, the natives of Benin come to trade by land."

[b]
The people live apparently to a good age, for many
were observed to be more than seventy years old. The
number of domestic slaves is very large, in some towns
being aJ^^Dst equal to the free inhabitants: they are
well treated, and many of them become free. Those
at Aboh are liberated when they build proper dwellings,



252 THE king's visit.

but they continue to pay a tax of forty yams each
season, and a small tithe of their goats, fowls, &c. By
thus incorporating them with the free people, many are
induced to " sit down" quietly who would otherwise
try and escape. There was a strong case in point
with Ali Here, who was formerly, in 1832, as on the
present occasion, lent by Obi as pilot. He was a young
Haussa slave belonging to Obi, and was taken to
Fernando Po in the * Albiirkah,' where he might have
obtained his freedom, but he preferred returning to
his master. On a similar offer being now made to him,
he said he was married, and although he knew he was
a slave, he had commenced a little trading on his own
account, was quite satisfied with his lot, and did not
wish to leave his country. [/b]





Notice that because of Ezzeh Obi Ossai involvement in slave trade, many slaves of non Igbo( Aboh) origin were incorporated into Ukwuani area as free borns. Some of these slaves are even Hausa slaves, as we saw from this Colonial document above, and in some instances the number of these freed Slaves are just as equal as those of real Ukwuanis.

These alien slaves were assimilated as Ukwuani indigenes following the abolition of slave thread, and make no mistake about it, their descendants are still present in Ukwuani today and in large numbers as in before and their ancestors already told them their history, they know they are not Igbos, but since they can't claim their slave roots, they invent a Bini story as a cover up.
This is a very significant factor in the Igbo denial elements in Ukwuani area that is often not discussed.

When these people tell you that they are not Ibos, they are probably right, and I don't argue with them on that, I only come in, when they say that Ukwuani area is not an Igbo area.

I only hope that just as Obi of Owa, the Nri representive in Owa stood up to be counted when needed, that the real Igbos of Ukwuani, the descendants of Ezzeh Obi Ossai will stand up to be counted, by puting these Hausa and northern slave blood descendants that are attempting to hijack Ukwuani true identity to hid their own slavery ancestry.

oweniwe:


1. Based on point one, since there was nothing like igbo back then, do you think ukwuani, ikwerre, ika etc folks are right to reject being called "igbo "?

E.g.... "I am Ukwuani... I am not igbo because there was nothing like "igbo " before the white man came "...

Ngwa man is simply Ngwa... Osha man is simply Osha... Ndienigu are simply Ndienugu... Ukwuani is simply Ukwuani... Ikwerre is simply ikwerre.... There's nothing like "Igbo "

Do you see ' reason ' in the above statement?

Cmon dude, dont be clever by half
You like so many before appear to be fixated on conveniently forgetting facts put before you
Lemme help you out there:
1. The first "Igbo" people whom the Europeans met were at Aboh and were identified by the Obi as living
on both sides of the Niger, with the Obi claiming suzerainity over "55 miles along both sides of the river".

2."Igbo" as a appelation for identifying people speaking "Igbo" dialects did not come into being with the Europeans,
rather people were bearing names like Igboanugo, Igbokwe, Igbo, Obigbo,Igboamaeze etc. then and now

3.All the Igbo speaking peoples knew what the appelation "Igbo" meant and understood it to be the "name of the people"
or the "name of the language" by which the "Igbo" people called themselves. It was corrupted to "Ibo" apparently cos the
whites could not vocalize the "gb" sound.

4.The first "Igbo" bible was written in Opobo dialect and was not called "Opobo" or "Bonny" bible, rather "Igbo" bible.
The Igbo appellation was neither invented nor was it strange sounding to the hinterlands when they heard it.

5. The first native Christian missionaries to the Igbo hinterlands came from Opobo, Aboh, Onitsha, Ndi Olu areas and did not find
it that difficult communicating in "Igbo" language to the more unexposed hinterland dwellers they preached to. All it took was acclimatization
to the dialectical differences.

6. To the best of my knowledge, no one needs you to be Igbo or accept the Igbo nomenclature.
It is the crass rejection/denial that makes the "other" Igbos either look funny, bad or foolish, given that this is coming from
a people who were the subjects of the first "Igbo" historical writings by the Europeans.
Moreso, when "geneologies" and "ancestral ties" are invented all in a bid to perpetuate a self inflicted identity crisis,
it only leads to tauntings, mockeries and yes a little disbelief at the foolishness of it all.


My 2 cents.

Everybody has right to self determination. Same right to self determination that Igbos use for the agitation of Biafra is what the Aniomas have to proclaim their ethnicity. Igbos come here and insult Aniomas, calling their ancestors that handed down their history from many generations liars. That's the height of insolence. You come here and talk about shared history forgetting that majority of Anioma history is edoid. Do you want to use language as an only measure of determining ethnicity? do you people know what makes a language a language and what makes a language a dialect? Nobody has the right to tell another that your language is a dialect of my language. it's an insult. even linguists don't have any definite way of determining a language and a dialect. many of the Europeans languages that are regarded as a separate language are closer to themselves than Igbo and Anioma languages yet you call it Igbo dialect? because it's Africa? Chinese is regarded as language but the truth is the Chinese language is made up of many languages yet people see it as a language. If language determines ethnicity why does some language go extinct? language is dynamic and can change within a short period of time. you people should go and make a research on factors that can make a language go extinct or change, you'll see that this Anioma-Igbo relationship fits perfectly.

Igboid:


Ukwuani can still maintain its distinctive nature, but it has to be under the Igbo banner, because even in SE, clans like Ngwa,Nsukka,Ndoki,Asa, etc, still retained their distinctive nature, they have their own languages with dialects, an even organizations, but it's all still done under the Igbo umbrella.

Thats where you are forcing it dude.
No one needs anyone to be under any umbrella they did not choose to be.
It is not obligatory or mandatory that the Aniomas, Ikwerres or any other so called Igbo speaking peoples join any pan Igbo
group or nation.
They are and have always been free to forge their own destiny, politically or economically.
If they decide to cast their lots with their Niger delta neighbours...good for them.
If they decide to take the Bini fixation to a logical conclusion...good for them.
If they decide to adopt Edo language as their national tongue tomorrow so they can finally get rid of the persky "Igbo"
question...it is their prerogative and not yours.
And as I noted...they owe you no apologies nor explanations.
So quit with the pan Igbo nonsense.

Infact if I were Igbo, I will be loath to accept into a pan Igbo fold peoples who denied their ancestry openly and vehemently for political expediency. If human nature is anything to go by, you can be rest assured the resentment and hatred will be lying latent and still on the surface.
You will be having willing fifth columnists and moles in your midst.
If you were a good student of history, you would know that since the Igbos have never had any pretensions to imperial status or statehood,
the drive should be for a confederation of clans under the Igbo umbrella.
Cos it does take conquest and force of arms to keep a people subjugated under a common political umbrella.
And you and I know, the republican Igbos find state politics or conquest an alien concept.
Infact it is more likely that the Aniomas will find a pan Igbo setting more disorganized and characterized by clear leadership hierarchies
which they are not accustomed to...that is in contrast to their monarchical systems where leadership was not found wanting.
A look at their pride in their Bini styled monarchical systems should tell you why they will eventually resent any pan Igbo stuff.
Methinks it boils down to the fact that the Igbos are new to state politics and have never had political leaders.

PabloAfricanus:



Thats where you are forcing it dude.
No one needs anyone to be under any umbrella they did not choose to be.
It is not obligatory or mandatory that the Aniomas, Ikwerres or any other so called Igbo speaking peoples join any pan Igbo
group or nation.
They are and have always been free to forge their own destiny, politically or economically.
If they decide to cast their lots with their Niger delta neighbours...good for them.
If they decide to take the Bini fixation to a logical conclusion...good for them.
If they decide to adopt Edo language as their national tongue tomorrow so they can finally get rid of the persky "Igbo"
question...it is their prerogative and not yours.
And as I noted...they owe you no apologies nor explanations.
So quit with the pan Igbo nonsense.

Infact if I were Igbo, I will be loath to accept into a pan Igbo fold peoples who denied their ancestry openly and vehemently for political expediency. If human nature is anything to go by, you can be rest assured the resentment and hatred will be lying latent and still on the surface.
You will be having willing fifth columnists and moles in your midst.
If you were a good student of history, you would know that since the Igbos have never had any pretensions to imperial status or statehood,
the drive should be for a confederation of clans under the Igbo umbrella.
Cos it does take conquest and force of arms to keep a people subjugated under a common political umbrella.
And you and I know, the republican Igbos find state politics or conquest an alien concept.
Infact it is more likely that the Aniomas will find a pan Igbo setting more disorganized and characterized by clear leadership hierarchies
which they are not accustomed to...that is in contrast to their monarchical systems where leadership was not found wanting.
A look at their pride in their Bini styled monarchical systems should tell you why they will eventually resent any pan Igbo stuff.
Methinks it boils down to the fact that the Igbos are new to state politics and have never had political leaders.

I don't know where you got the idea that I am forcing Igbo identity on Ukwuanis from.

So far, no Ukwuani monarch has come out to deny Igbo identity, I have Friends from Ukwuani who are proud of their Igbo identity, ukwuani has no institutionalized Igbophobic policy.

Why then should I take the words of probably descendants of Hausa slaves in Ukwuani over those of free borns and their Okpala ukus and Obis?

You come here and talk about shared history forgetting that majority of Anioma history is edoid

Edoid? Your ignorance knows no bound. Other than Oza nogogo that is only but a fraction of Agbor kingdom, can you mention any other Edoid group in Anioma?

The Edos can't even understand Igbanke, an Igboid group that is in Edo state, it's now the Ukwuanis, Ikas and Enuani that they will understand.

Please stop displaying your ignorance here.

chukzyblingz:
Everybody has right to self determination. Same right to self determination that Igbos use for the agitation of Biafra is what the Aniomas have to proclaim their ethnicity. Igbos come here and insult Aniomas, calling their ancestors that handed down their history from many generations liars. That's the height of insolence. You come here and talk about shared history forgetting that majority of Anioma history is edoid. Do you want to use language as an only measure of determining ethnicity? do you people know what makes a language a language and what makes a language a dialect? Nobody has the right to tell another that your language is a dialect of my language. it's an insult. even linguists don't have any definite way of determining a language and a dialect. many of the Europeans languages that are regarded as a separate language are closer to themselves than Igbo and Anioma languages yet you call it Igbo dialect? because it's Africa? Chinese is regarded as language but the truth is the Chinese language is made up of many languages yet people see it as a language. If language determines ethnicity why does some language go extinct? language is dynamic and can change within a short period of time. you people should go and make a research on factors that can make a language go extinct or change, you'll see that this Anioma-Igbo relationship fits perfectly.

Here comes another "edoid" one!
Dude its either you have been grossly misinformed or you are just another victim of a self inflicted identity crisis.
For starters, no "edoid" peoples speak an "Igbo" dialect like the so called Aniomas.
The Afemais, the Ishans, the Edos themselves, the Urhobos and the Itshekiris...all have their separate languages and/or dialects
which are still being spoken till today.
Next their oral histories rarely has been the source of controversies like the Aniomas.

The Itshekiris can tell you clearly when Prince Ginuwa came from Bini to establish the ruling dynasty.
You can see for yourself that his name has no Itshekiri themed meaning and was clearly Edo.
The Afemais and Ishans till today still speak an Edo dialect.
How you and your "historians" managed to convince yourselves a man named Eze Chima is Edo is simply baffling.
Lets not even get to the Ikhime part or the fact that the Binis have no record of such an important personality.
Even more baffling is your calling "edoid" a culture that is more Igbo than even your beloved Edo!
I am left baffled
How you also managed to conveniently ignore the facts that all the names of places you claim to have been founded by the so called
Eze Chima is faithfully replicated across the Niger...is also baffling.
Are you aware there are more Onichas across the Niger than in your Anioma lands?
How come a people who from time immemorial have always spoken pristine Igbo dialects, practised pristine Igbo traditions,
and have always had the majority of their deities to be Igbo deities...suddenly become "Edoid" beats the imagination.
Apparently you have not researched your history well and like so many of your elders...have simply chosen to live in self denial.
Pls kontinu.

[b] "One of their most horrible and extraordinary super-
stitions is that connected with the birth of twins ; an
occurrence looked upon as the greatest affliction that
can happen to an Ibu woman. The little victims are
no sooner born than one or both are taken away, placed
in the neighbouring thicket in earthen pots or baskets,
and left there to become the food of hyenas or other
wild beasts. The unfortunate mother is separated for
ever from her conjugal alliance ; she is obliged to pass
a long period of repentance and purification, in a rude
hut some distance from the town ; and if she outlives
all these trials, mental and physical, and returns once
more to society, she is regarded as an especial object of
Fetiche wrath, and no woman will knowingly sit in her
company, or hold communion with her. No wonder
that it is so much dreaded by all Ibu women ; to whom
it is impossible to offer a greater insult, or one which
rouses their angry feelings more, than to say the word
" Abo-wadakri ;" or by holding up two fingers, signify
that they have had twins.

Another equally absurd, and scarcely less cruel super-
stition, is the sacrifice of such children as unfortu-
nately cut the teeth first in the upper jaw. They
believe it to indicate a wicked disposition"[/b]


Haha! Now, this is as Igbo as they come. We really owe the colonial masters alot for preserving these living evidence.

Igboid:


I don't know where you got the idea that I am forcing Igbo identity on Ukwuanis from.

So far, no Ukwuani monarch has come out to deny Igbo identity, I have Friends from Ukwuani who are proud of their Igbo identity, ukwuani has no institutionalized Igbophobic policy.

Why then should I take the words of probably descendants of Hausa slaves in Ukwuani over those of free borns and their Okpala ukus and Obis?

Ukwuani can still maintain its distinctive nature, but it has to be under the Igbo banner,
But you just did.
Who made you an arbiter of political affiliation for them?

Its true that over time they have had migrations from different places and thus clearly have settlers in their midst,
so somehow their identity must have been altered.
And this is no different from the Igbos across the Niger like the Abribas, Arochukwus, the Ohafias, the Ezzas, the Ndokis, the Wawas and the rest.
They have over time mixed up with the Igalas, the Ibibios, Efiks, Idomas etc.
Homogeneity in ethnic composition can never be 100%. Intermarriages and migrations guarantee that.
Whether it is a case of Hausa slaves or Bini migrants or whatever, they are the final arbiters of their political affiliations.
The best you can do is appeal to shared histories, language, cultures and traditions as a unifying factor.
It is left to them to decide, not you.

oweniwe:


1. Based on point one, since there was nothing like igbo back then, do you think ukwuani, ikwerre, ika etc folks are right to reject being called "igbo "?

E.g.... "I am Ukwuani... I am not igbo because there was nothing like "igbo " before the white man came "...

Ngwa man is simply Ngwa... Osha man is simply Osha... Ndienigu are simply Ndienugu... Ukwuani is simply Ukwuani... Ikwerre is simply ikwerre.... There's nothing like "Igbo "

Do you see ' reason ' in the above statement?

In the current Nigerian make-up,the statement does not make sense. No offence. Maybe in precolonial Nigeria or immediately after independence such may have being attempted but not anymore. In a time when Igbos are currently trying to save their skins,balkanizing ourselves will be foolhardy.

PabloAfricanus:


Ukwuani can still maintain its distinctive nature, but it has to be under the Igbo banner,
But you just did.
Who made you an arbiter of political affiliation for them?

Its true that over time they have had migrations from different places and thus clearly have settlers in their midst,
so somehow their identity must have been altered.
And this is no different from the Igbos across the Niger like the Abribas, Arochukwus, the Ohafias, the Ezzas, the Ndokis, the Wawas and the rest.
They have over time mixed up with the Igalas, the Ibibios, Efiks, Idomas etc.
Homogeneity in ethnic composition can never be 100%. Intermarriages and migrations guarantee that.
Whether it is a case of Hausa slaves or Bini migrants or whatever, they are the final arbiters of their political affiliations.
The best you can do is appeal to shared histories, language, cultures and traditions as a unifying factor.
It is left to them to decide, not you.

How exactly did I? I am already maintaining status quo. Until the custodians of Ukwuani culture and traditions comes out to denounce their Igbo identity, it will remain so.

You don't expect me to take the words of aliens over those of the aboriginals?

There is no appealing to the aliens in Ukwuani, they know their ancestry, and they know it's not Igbo, appealing to them is waste of time. And such I don't have.

PabloAfricanus:


Cmon dude, dont be clever by half
You like so many before appear to be fixated on conveniently forgetting facts put before you
Lemme help you out there:
1. The first "Igbo" people whom the Europeans met were at Aboh and were identified by the Obi as living
on both sides of the Niger, with the Obi claiming suzerainity over "55 miles along both sides of the river".

2."Igbo" as a appelation for identifying people speaking "Igbo" dialects did not come into being with the Europeans,
rather people were bearing names like Igboanugo, Igbokwe, Igbo, Obigbo,Igboamaeze etc. then and now

3.All the Igbo speaking peoples knew what the appelation "Igbo" meant and understood it to be the "name of the people"
or the "name of the language" by which the "Igbo" people called themselves. It was corrupted to "Ibo" apparently cos the
whites could not vocalize the "gb" sound.

4.The first "Igbo" bible was written in Opobo dialect and was not called "Opobo" or "Bonny" bible, rather "Igbo" bible.
The Igbo appellation was neither invented nor was it strange sounding to the hinterlands when they heard it.

5. The first native Christian missionaries to the Igbo hinterlands came from Opobo, Aboh, Onitsha, Ndi Olu areas and did not find
it that difficult communicating in "Igbo" language to the more unexposed hinterland dwellers they preached to. All it took was acclimatization
to the dialectical differences.

6. To the best of my knowledge, no one needs you to be Igbo or accept the Igbo nomenclature.
It is the crass rejection/denial that makes the "other" Igbos either look funny, bad or foolish, given that this is coming from
a people who were the subjects of the first "Igbo" historical writings by the Europeans.
Moreso, when "geneologies" and "ancestral ties" are invented all in a bid to perpetuate a self inflicted identity crisis,
it only leads to tauntings, mockeries and yes a little disbelief at the foolishness of it all.


My 2 cents.

Strong points there.

Ishilove:
PabloAfricanus, my device is blinking red (typed the life out of the battery) so I will respond later today, if that is alright with you.

Still expecting your response nwanyi ukwuani.
Make it good this time and for the sake of posterity consider historical facts as they still are.

PabloAfricanus:



Here comes another "edoid" one!
Dude its either you have been grossly misinformed or you are just another victim of a self inflicted identity crisis.
For starters, no "edoid" peoples speak an "Igbo" dialect like the so called Aniomas.
The Afemais, the Ishans, the Edos themselves, the Urhobos and the Itshekiris...all have their separate languages and/or dialects
which are still being spoken till today.
Next their oral histories rarely has been the source of controversies like the Aniomas.

The Itshekiris can tell you clearly when Prince Ginuwa came from Bini to establish the ruling dynasty.
You can see for yourself that his name has no Itshekiri themed meaning and was clearly Edo.
The Afemais and Ishans till today still speak an Edo dialect.
How you and your "historians" managed to convince yourselves a man named Eze Chima is Edo is simply baffling.
Lets not even get to the Ikhime part or the fact that the Binis have no record of such an important personality.
Even more baffling is your calling "edoid" a culture that is more Igbo than even your beloved Edo!
I am left baffled
How you also managed to conveniently ignore the facts that all the names of places you claim to have been founded by the so called
Eze Chima is faithfully replicated across the Niger...is also baffling.
Are you aware there are more Onichas across the Niger than in your Anioma lands?
How come a people who from time immemorial have always spoken pristine Igbo dialects, practised pristine Igbo traditions,
and have always had the majority of their deities to be Igbo deities...suddenly become "Edoid" beats the imagination.
Apparently you have not researched your history well and like so many of your elders...have simply chosen to live in self denial.
Pls kontinu.

first I'm an Ika man and not from An Ezechime clan but if the Ezechimes say their ancestors are from Benin, who are you to question them? How many Aniomas are questioning you Igbos when you say you came from Israel? is very funny for a people that don't know their history to insult people that have their history handed over to them for many centuries before the civil war or the formation of Nigeria. And it amuses me when this people come online and start using their population to spread falsehood online. I know you're at advantage of spreading more lies about Anioma because you outnumber the Aniomas but that's not going to make real Aniomas denounce their ethnicity and accept Igbo. We Aniomas know where we come from and our elders know our history as handed down from many centuries and generations by our ancestors. This has nothing to do with Igbo neither does it have anything to do with Nigeria. May God twist your mouth for insulting my elders for saying the truth. You don't have any right to insult or call my elders liars because I don't call your elders liars when they said they are from Israel. You're highly biased in your observations. you can never know a people better than they know themselves neither can you love a people better than they love themselves. You talk about similarities with igbo while totally ignoring the similarities with the Edos. And being as knowledgeable as you claim to be, I'm sure you understand the dynamism of language and why it can never be used to determine ethnicity also going by how fond the Igbo are in changing people's names to Igboid name. and you talk like Anioma is equal to ezechime clan.

Nomswag:
proundly an ukwuani boy.......i cant imagine my self being called an igbo man.

Ukwuani! I believe it has same meaning with eastern and western igbos. Which i also believe that igbos are one but different dialect

Before colonialism came, there was no such thing as "igbo tribe" an Onitsha man was simply Onitsha, nkwerrre was nkwerrre, ngwa was ngwa, waawa was waawa, orlu was orlu, asaba was ahaba, ikwerre was ikwerre, ibeku was ibeku, arochukwu was arochukwu, ohafia was ohafia, ukwuani was ukwuani, aguleri was aguleri, igbanke was igboakiri, agbor was agbor.

Some were affiliated to kingdoms and empires e.g aro confederacy, Benin kingdom, etc while some stood out e.g Onitsha, NRI, agbor, etc.

Revisionists we are waiting for you to rewrite history....

oweniwe:


Same for my mom... even in late 50s she can still sprint.... And trek very fast.

The height disparity between my dad and mom now is like difference between palm tree and orange tree

But if you want to live a life free from back pain, thigh/leg pain when you get old... The short gene is the way to go.

Lol. I'll pass because i'm not tall myself. Short man gene for me will mean my offspring will be kpukpuyeke. All shorties. The short squad.

PabloAfricanus:


Still expecting your response nwanyi ukwuani.
Make it good this time and for the sake of posterity consider historical facts as they still are.

I will do that shortly, sir.

chukzyblingz:
first I'm an Ika man and not from An Ezechime clan but if the Ezechimes say their ancestors are from Benin, who are you to question them? How many Aniomas are questioning you Igbos when you say you came from Israel? is very funny for a people that don't know their history to insult people that have their history handed over to them for many centuries before the civil war or the formation of Nigeria. And it amuses me when this people come online and start using their population to spread falsehood online. I know you're at advantage of spreading more lies about Anioma because you outnumber the Aniomas but that's not going to make real Aniomas denounce their ethnicity and accept Igbo. We Aniomas know where we come from and our elders know our history as handed down from many centuries and generations by our ancestors. This has nothing to do with Igbo neither does it have anything to do with Nigeria. May God twist your mouth for insulting my elders for saying the truth. You don't have any right to insult or call my elders liars because I don't call your elders liars when they said they are from Israel. You're highly biased in your observations. you can never know a people better than they know themselves neither can you love a people better than they love themselves. You talk about similarities with igbo while totally ignoring the similarities with the Edos. And being as knowledgeable as you claim to be, I'm sure you understand the dynamism of language and why it can never be used to determine ethnicity also going by how fond the Igbo are in changing people's names to Igboid name. and you talk like Anioma is equal to ezechime clan.

Firstly I abhor insults and expletives on this faceless forum.
You dont know me, you dont even know if I am Igbo.
The fact that you have resorted to insults show you have already run out of talking points.
For starters, no one called you or your elders liars.
Historical facts were presented, you can either counter them with historical facts or you can go on spewing invented
tales and mythologies.
Secondly, history is an open ended topic. There are professional and amateur historians whose job is to research, verify and
comment on historical claims and facts. If you have any problem with that, I suggest you go back to school and get a better education.
Having said that, the claims were made by your so called elders and they were the ones who started this whole denials and counter denials.

After doing my own little digging around, I find little evidence that the SE Igbos have mounted any campaign to force an "Igbo" identity
on you "edoid" peoples...who have nothing to do with Igbo

As an amateur historian and a Nigerian, I am free to comment and analyze your claims to Bini ancestry.
It was neither Nigerians nor Igbos who claimed for you and your elders that you came from Bini or are "edoid" peoples.
You and your elders did.
Facts must speak for themselves or must be proved if there is any controversy around presented facts or historical claims.
The facts on ground do not point to an Edo or Bini ancestory for the Ikas and the Aniomas.
Contrary to your elders' claims, the bulk of what is Ika/Anioma history is overwhelming Igbo...in language, culture and tradition.

If you are not intelligent enough to know that language is the first marker of ethnic groupings...then you have my sympathy on your ignorance.
When a supposedly unique and different people cannot substantiate their claims to uniqueness or separate identity...you can be sure some creative story telling is involved.
The pathetic fact about your rants is that you are not even well informed of the full scope of what you share with the SE Igbos.
This goes also for your elders. When presented with the fact there is an an Onicha in Ezza Ebonyi state, they silently ignore that.
When reminded that there is an Onitsha in Ezinitte Mbaise, that too gets conveniently ignored.
That are are Abbi, Owa, Umu Owas, Aboh across the Niger is plain lost to them....or they conveniently ignore those facts.

In summary dude, historical facts point out that you have more in common with the SE Igbos than with the Edos who are your next door neighbours.
They neither speak your language nor do you speak theirs. On that single point alone...you have a problem with your "Edoid" claims.

Finally the joke is on you and your elders.
Your governor, an Ika man, bears the name Ifeanyi Okowa.
Touche!
What mannalov irony and nansense! An sitting governor of Ika origin, an Edoid man bearing an Igbo name of all things!
Are you sure it was not the lying Igbos who forced his father, who by the way bears the name Chief Arthur Okorie Okowa
...to give his son an Igbo name?
Dont you just love the pure Edoid names you princely and kingly Ika people have?
Dude the joke is squarely on you.

If you have any claim to intelligence, answer this:
If there was a religious crisis in Kano and the resident Igbos were accused of having blasphemed Prophet Muhammed,
you know how it goes and the mob happen to be out for blood.
How will they tell the difference between these 6 Southern Nigerian men living in Sabon Gari?
Elechi Martins, Elechi Amadi, Chukwuma Nzeogwu, Chukwuma Soludo, Ifeanyi Uba and Ifeanyi Okowa?

How will they identify the ones who are Igbo and the ones who are Edoid among them?

Lezzlie:
predominantly Igbos of origin having what I term bini influence, for their language is intelligible to Igbos and not to to benis, the proximity notwithstanding.

I dont think so my friend. According to scholars like Jones Odili of UNIPORT(I'm giving him more credence because his academic position makes the assumption he will be more accurate and nonpartisan), he said in his book that there were more waves of migration from Benin than from Nri.

The strongest point that a couple of people have made is towns in Ika and Ukwuani lands having the same names as those in the SE.

How many are these compared to town names of Bini origin? Anyone with such details?

mbatuku2:


I dont think so my friend. According to scholars like Jones Odili of UNIPORT(I'm giving him more credence because his academic position makes the assumption he will be more accurate and nonpartisan), he said in his book that there were more waves of migration from Benin than from Nri.

And their language is igboid? More intelligible to Igbos than it is to Benin despite the close proximity to Benin?

PabloAfricanus:


Firstly I abhor insults and expletives on this faceless forum.
You dont know me, you dont even know if I am Igbo.
The fact that you have resorted to insults show you have already run out of talking points.
For starters, no one called you or your elders liars.
Historical facts were presented, you can either counter them with historical facts or you can go on spewing invented
tales and mythologies.
Secondly, history is an open ended topic. There are professional and amateur historians whose job is to research, verify and
comment on historical claims and facts. If you have any problem with that, I suggest you go back to school and get a better education.
Having said that, the claims were made by your so called elders and they were the ones who started this whole denials and counter denials.

After doing my own little digging around, I find little evidence that the SE Igbos have mounted any campaign to force an "Igbo" identity
on you "edoid" peoples...who have nothing to do with Igbo

As an amateur historian and a Nigerian, I am free to comment and analyze your claims to Bini ancestry.
It was neither Nigerians nor Igbos who claimed for you and your elders that you came from Bini or are "edoid" peoples.
You and your elders did.
Facts must speak for themselves or must be proved if there is any controversy around presented facts or historical claims.
The facts on ground do not point to an Edo or Bini ancestory for the Ikas and the Aniomas.
Contrary to your elders' claims, the bulk of what is Ika/Anioma history is overwhelming Igbo...in language, culture and tradition.

If you are not intelligent enough to know that language is the first marker of ethnic groupings...then you have my sympathy on your ignorance.
When a supposedly unique and different people cannot substantiate their claims to uniqueness or separate identity...you can be sure some creative story telling is involved.
The pathetic fact about your rants is that you are not even well informed of the full scope of what you share with the SE Igbos.
This goes also for your elders. When presented with the fact there is an an Onicha in Ezza Ebonyi state, they silently ignore that.
When reminded that there is an Onitsha in Ezinitte Mbaise, that too gets conveniently ignored.
That are are Abbi, Owa, Umu Owas, Aboh across the Niger is plain lost to them....or they conveniently ignore those facts.

In summary dude, historical facts point out that you have more in common with the SE Igbos than with the Edos who are your next door neighbours.
They neither speak your language nor do you speak theirs. On that single point alone...you have a problem with your "Edoid" claims.

Finally the joke is on you and your elders.
Your governor, an Ika man, bears the name Ifeanyi Okowa.
Touche!
What mannalov irony and nansense! An sitting governor of Ika origin, an Edoid man bearing an Igbo name of all things!
Are you sure it was not the lying Igbos who forced his father, who by the way bears the name Chief Arthur Okorie Okowa
...to give his son an Igbo name?
Dont you just love the pure Edoid names you princely and kingly Ika people have?
Dude the joke is squarely on you.

If you have any claim to intelligence, answer this:
If there was a religious crisis in Kano and the resident Igbos were accused of having blasphemed Prophet Muhammed,
you know how it goes and the mob happen to be out for blood.
How will they tell the difference between these 6 Southern Nigerian men living in Sabon Gari?
Elechi Martins, Elechi Amadi, Chukwuma Nzeogwu, Chukwuma Soludo, Ifeanyi Uba and Ifeanyi Okowa?

How will they identify the ones who are Igbo and the ones who are Edoid among them?

you became insulting the moment you said elders of an ethnic group is living in self denial. From all your write ups I can see you know a whole lot about igbo but you don't know anything about Ika/Anioma or Edo. 80% Of Ika surnames are Edo. that plows bears an Igbo name doesn't make him Ignoring same way. I can give you a list of a thousand prominent men from Ika, 80% of them have Edo surnames, about 10% have real ika names and the rest are igbo names. Talking about names of towns, Okay share more names with Edo more than they share with any other groups. there are many owas in edo, Emuhu, Ute, even Agbor in an U r hobo land. Majority of ika village names are Edo and all our street and chieftaincy titles are Edo. You're highly hypocritical. Claiming to be liberal while denying any link between Anioma and Edo. even the blind can see the similarities but from all you wrote their is no single similarities. and which stupid study did you carry out and what nonsense facts are you talking about
like I said, you don't know anything about Anions neither do you know anything about Edo. stop fooling yourself on the internet

Lezzlie:


And their language is igboid? More intelligible to Igbos than it is to Benin despite the close proximity to Benin?

Why not also put the numbers of Edos living in Anioma in relation to the Edos into consideration? Igbos outnumbers the Edos and Igbos are everywhere. Igbo language is very popular and that can be a contributing factor

Lezzlie:


And their language is igboid? More intelligible to Igbos than it is to Benin despite the close proximity to Benin?

The language a person speaks doesn't always show his origin. No one knows for sure what happened why these large mass of people from Benin now speak an Igboid form of language, but the fact still remains that there were more people coming in from Benin.

This link might educate some people about languages. www.linguisticsociety.org/content/what-endangered-language

chukzyblingz:
you became insulting the moment you said elders of an ethnic group is living in self denial. From all your write ups I can see you know a whole lot about igbo but you don't know anything about Ika/Anioma or Edo. 80% Of Ika surnames are Edo. that plows bears an Igbo name doesn't make him Ignoring same way. I can give you a list of a thousand prominent men from Ika, 80% of them have Edo surnames, about 10% have real ika names and the rest are igbo names. Talking about names of towns, Okay share more names with Edo more than they share with any other groups. there are many owas in edo, Emuhu, Ute, even Agbor in an U r hobo land. Majority of ika village names are Edo and all our street and chieftaincy titles are Edo. You're highly hypocritical. Claiming to be liberal while denying any link between Anioma and Edo. even the blind can see the similarities but from all you wrote their is no single similarities. and which stupid study did you carry out and what nonsense facts are you talking about
like I said, you don't know anything about Anions neither do you know anything about Edo. stop fooling yourself on the internet

Are these towns with Edo names the same as what is found in Edo area today?

mbatuku2:
The strongest point that a couple of people have made is towns in Ika and Ukwuani lands having the same names as those in the SE.

How many are these compared to town names of Bini origin? Anyone with such details?

90% of Ika town names are Edo. All Ika village settings and culture are Edo. It's same in other Anioma areas. Up to 11 languages is spoken in Anioma. Including I jaw, Urhobo, Isoko that's spoken by some Ukwani areas.

chukzyblingz:
90% of Ika town names are Edo. All Ika village settings and culture are Edo. It's same in other Anioma areas. Up to 11 languages is spoken in Anioma. Including I jaw, Urhobo, Isoko that's spoken by some Ukwani areas.

When settlers come to a new place, they often name it after their homelands. Is it the same case with these Ika towns?

mbatuku2:


The language a person speaks doesn't always show his origin. No one knows for sure what happened why these large mass of people from Benin now speak an Igboid form of language, but the fact still remains that there were more people coming in from Benin.

The fact that they speak igboid language showed that they are predominantly igboid with a pocket of immigrants from Benin. Never forget the Benin empire was so great and influential it spanned across the Niger.

That my friend, may just be another reason.

chukzyblingz:
Why not also put the numbers of Edos living in Anioma in relation to the Edos into consideration? Igbos outnumbers the Edos and Igbos are everywhere. Igbo language is very popular and that can be a contributing factor

The answer you seek is hidden in the between the very submission you just made.

No further explanation needed.