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If Nigeria Divide Today, Does Delta And Edo State Has A Place With Yoruba/igbo / Is Oba Of Benin The Paramount Traditional Ruler Of Niger Delta and Igbos? (2) (3) (4)

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Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 1:23pm On Dec 26, 2016
I’ve researched this topic for time and my understanding is that there's three distinct groups in Anioma (Delta Ibo) - two Edoid-Igboid (Ika, Ukwuani/Ndokwa) and one Igbo proper (Enuani), that the latter (the only genuine, authentic Igbos who inhabit Delta Igboland) can be found around Asaba/Oshimili/Aniocha area, that "Bendel Igbos," as my mum calls them, (Ika and Ukwuani people) are culturally Edoid groups who happen to speak Igboid languages and that close proximity and the vague similarity in language is why a people who are essentially Bini are lumped in with the real Delta Igbos (Enuani). In exactly the same sense as that if true Yorubas occupied an area in (let's just say) Delta State with Igalas and Itsekiris, all three groups would all be known as "Delta Yoruba" since they're all linguistically Yoruboid and because they'd share neighbouring proximity with each other, forgetting that there's only one true group of Yorubas who inhabit that area - i.e., the Yorubas, not the other two non-culturally Yoruba groups who happen to speak Yoruboid languages (and not even Yoruba proper).

I tend to agree with the assertion that one and only true Igbos of Anioma are Enuani since I've encountered Enuani Igbos who hail from Asaba who are in literally every respect just as Igbo as a typical south easterner from Enugu or Anambra and the Ika-Ukwuani (Bendel) stock people who speak languages that share similarities with Igbo but who you couldn't in a million years imagine sipping palmy and chopping nkwobi in Ishiagu and red cap. grin

Ditto for Rivers folk. I know authentic Igbos can be found in the Bonny-Opobo axis (said to be, at least in part, descendants of settlers from the Awka-Orlu axis) but as for Ikwerres, does the fact that they happen to speak an Igboid language mean that they're also culturally Igbo (or at least before the civil war) and could someone fill me in on the other Igboid/Igbo groups of Rivers (Etche, Ndoni, etc.). I've looked for info. online and there's next to nothing on Wikipedia at least for Etches.

My question is, could someone fill me in on the Ikas and Ukwuanis of Delta and the Ikwerre, etc., of Rivers? Ika and Ukwuani definitely don't fall under the banner of Igbo proper but Igboid in a linguistic sense (even if you might well argue that their dialect is more intelligible than Nsukka/Ebonyi dialects) but are these people culturally Igbo or Edoid, etc.? I've only researched this for some time so my understanding's limited but that's the conclusion through reading and my own experiences with some of these folk.

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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Noblecx: 1:52pm On Dec 26, 2016
Nigga why not go and ask them in their respective domain.
At least they have rulers that can guide you on their history.
Also you can search for them in Facebook. Many ethnic groups have groups on Facebook where they discuss their root.

The world is now global and answers theses days are not far fetched but are in the tip of your fingers.

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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 5:05pm On Dec 26, 2016
Noblecx:
Nigga why not go and ask them in their respective domain.
At least they have rulers that can guide you on their history.
Also you can search for them in Facebook. Many ethnic groups have groups on Facebook where they discuss their root.

The world is now global and answers theses days are not far fetched but are in the tip of your fingers.



I don't appreciate useless and nonsense answers like these. If you're not gonna add to the discussion, commot.

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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Noblecx: 5:07pm On Dec 26, 2016
Probz:


Yeah, no useless, nonsense answers like these.

Excuse me?!?

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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 5:08pm On Dec 26, 2016
Noblecx:


Excuse me?!?

You read. Excuse yourself if you're not contributing to the discussion. In the nicest way possible. I want this thread to stay clean.

2 Likes

Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Noblecx: 5:11pm On Dec 26, 2016
Probz:


You read. Excuse yourself if you're not contributing to the discussion. In the nicest way possible. I want this thread to stay clean.
LOL.
Nigga... You are asking someone populating your thread to leave?
Do you want your thread to die uselessly without attention?
OK... I will walk out.
Nice stay in your clean thread.

3 Likes

Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 5:26pm On Dec 26, 2016
Your so-called Igbo proper Enuani still have a lot of clans that claim Bini, Esan and Igala blood.

1 Like

Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 5:28pm On Dec 26, 2016
Lauretta Onochie and Sunny Ofili who are very anti-Igbo are from Enuani.
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 6:17pm On Dec 26, 2016
Wulfruna:
Your so-called Igbo proper Enuani still have a lot of clans that claim Bini, Esan and Igala blood.

Wulfruna:
Lauretta Onochie and Sunny Ofili who are very anti-Igbo are from Enuani.

What are you driving at?
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 7:57pm On Dec 26, 2016
iSlayer2:




What are you driving at?

Read the article if you don't get the context of my reply.
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 8:13pm On Dec 26, 2016
Wulfruna:

Read the article if you don't get the context of my reply.
Don't derail the thread. Mods watch out.
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 8:17pm On Dec 26, 2016
Wulfruna:
Lauretta Onochie and Sunny Ofili who are very anti-Igbo are from Enuani.

This is highly off-point. The topic is not "Who are Enuani personalities who are anti-Igbo"? Simply share what you know of Ika/Ikwerre culture as it pertains to being Igbo or a distinct people.

2 Likes

Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by ChinenyeN(m): 8:37pm On Dec 26, 2016
Odo nunu?

It's as if people are neglecting the historical context of how "Igbo" people even became "Igbo" people to begin with. Igbo is first and foremost a linguistic classification. The ethnic identity is after the fact, and it isn't something that everyone accepts. So, if your community's vernacular is by definition an Igbo speech form, then you are by definition classified as an Igbo-speaking person. Ethnic identity is a different discussion.

People who try to use this newfound ethnic identity to delineate relationship do all the communities in "Igboland" a strong disservice, because pre-colonial relationships between communities had nothing to do with "Igbo" identity. You will see otherwise "Igbo" communities with historical, cultural and ethnic ties with otherwise "Ijaw" communities, or otherwise "Igala" communities or otherwise "Ibibio" communities, or otherwise "Edo" communities or otherwise... ah you get my point.

This idea of "truly Igbo" or "genuinely Igbo" is a farce and does nothing more than insult the pre-colonial histories of various "Igbo" peoples.

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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 8:52pm On Dec 26, 2016
Wulfruna:
Your so-called Igbo proper Enuani still have a lot of clans that claim Bini, Esan and Igala blood.

Those Enuanis are most likely being influenced by the prevailing anti-Igbo sentiments from the Bendel/Western side of Anioma (Ikas and Ukwuanis, the ones who might actually have a point) but they’re still regarded as authentically Igbo by anyone versed enough about Delta Igbo matters whether they accept it or not.

And the point about some Enuanis having Igala blood is irrelevant, not being funny. I’ve heard that a large stock of eastern Igbos (esp. those from Nsukka and environs) have Igala blood and they don’t regard themselves as any other than 100% Igbo, as far as I know. Ndigbo as a whole and her origins are extraordinarily heterogeneous. Some of us even claim Israelite/Hebrew origin, as I'm sure you know (and I won't knock that theory either until I'm better-informed).

And the trolls calling IPOB can commot. I'm no Biafra supporter nor am I with the concept of separation.

1 Like

Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 9:00pm On Dec 26, 2016
iSlayer2:


This is highly off-point. The topic is not "Who are Enuani personalities who are anti-Igbo"? Simply share what you know of Ika/Ikwerre culture as it pertains to being Igbo or a distinct people.

Listen, do not quote me again if you can't say something smart. You obviously did not read beyond the title. The writer started off by trying to tell us which of the Anioma groups are pure Igbo and which one are Edo hybrids.

He or she claimed Ika and Ukwuani as Edoid-Igboid and Enuani as pure Igbo. My comments only intended to point out that Enuani has a lot of clans who do not lay claim to pure Igbo blood (as he thinks), but are also "Edoid-Igbo", to use his language. I mentioned two prominent Enuani individuals who disclaim Igboness in order to highlight that such denials exist in Enuani as much as they exist in Ika and Ukwuani.

The only derailer here is you, with your lack of comprehension and eagerness to pick a pointless fight. Seek understanding or stop quoting me.

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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 9:03pm On Dec 26, 2016
Probz:



And the point about some Enuanis having Igala blood is irrelevant, not being funny.


It became relevant the moment you started calling Enuanis pure Igbos. You should have known that for groups on ethnic borderlands, such a notion as 'pureness' makes no sense.

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:28pm On Dec 26, 2016
ChinenyeN:
Odo nunu?

It's as if people are neglecting the historical context of how "Igbo" people even became "Igbo" people to begin with. Igbo is first and foremost a linguistic classification. The ethnic identity is after the fact, and it isn't something that everyone accepts. So, if your community's vernacular is by definition an Igbo speech form, then you are by definition classified as an Igbo-speaking person. Ethnic identity is a different discussion.

I slightly disagree.
If Igbo is firstly a linguistic classification and "Igbo" identity being a secondary fact to that, then that makes nonsense of ethnic origins and kinship. Even more it totally obscures the fact that unrelated peoples do not speak the same language and must use an interpreter to communicate. Apparently the Obi of Agbor should have some explaining to do on how his alleged "Edoid" people came about the name Ikenchukwu or who introduced them to the concept of a "chukwu" in the first place. You know, with Bini that almost overshadowed them just being by the corner.

This topic while being a bit overflogged IMO, points to the careless disregard for history by people who should know better.
A man as learned as Elechi Amadi with one of the strongest (Amadi is short for Amadioha) Igbo names, concocting a hitherto unverifiable
ancestry to some mythical Bini migrant, you know complete with unverified dates and unverified names.
Or this hilarious scenario where native peoples who were culturally and politically influenced by their powerful neighbours, take it to
mean that they are now actually descended from their powerful neighbours.
Never mind that influence is visible in less than 10% of their socio-cultural life.

I dunno how familiar you are with "Igbo" history, but the name/etnonym "Igbo" was not invented or adopted.
It is a native name the "Igbo" speaking peoples called themselves. It means "the people".
Cue the numerous names of peoples and places prefixed and suffixed by -Igbo and you should have a better understanding.
Amaigbo, Igboezue,Igbokwe, Igbo(itself is a popular surname) etc.

If your assertion is accepted, it indeed dodges the question of how allegedly unrelated peoples began speaking a mutually intelligible
language and derived dialects of it, or how they adopted similar cultures and traditions etc.
So I disagree, the colonial masters and their anthropologists/academicians did not designate or invent "Igbo" primarily as a linguistic classifier,
it is first and foremost the most popular name/label by which the "Igbo" speaking peoples identified themselves.

9 Likes 1 Share

Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 10:32pm On Dec 26, 2016
ChinenyeN:
Odo nunu?

It's as if people are neglecting the historical context of how "Igbo" people even became "Igbo" people to begin with. Igbo is first and foremost a linguistic classification. The ethnic identity is after the fact, and it isn't something that everyone accepts. So, if your community's vernacular is by definition an Igbo speech form, then you are by definition classified as an Igbo-speaking person. Ethnic identity is a different discussion.

People who try to use this newfound ethnic identity to delineate relationship do all the communities in "Igboland" a strong disservice, because pre-colonial relationships between communities had nothing to do with "Igbo" identity. You will see otherwise "Igbo" communities with historical, cultural and ethnic ties with otherwise "Ijaw" communities, or otherwise "Igala" communities or otherwise "Ibibio" communities, or otherwise "Edo" communities or otherwise... ah you get my point.

This idea of "truly Igbo" or "genuinely Igbo" is a farce and does nothing more than insult the pre-colonial histories of various "Igbo" peoples.


It's no worse than lumping two quite disparate groups under the overarching term of a tribe they're only somehow related to linguistically.

Igala and Itsekiri people speak a Yoruboid language but no one calls them Yoruba. I'm aware Igbo has greater linguistic diversity and there's more Igboid than Yoruboid languages. It doesn't mean that the Igboid-speaking communities are Igbo.

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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by AmuDimpka: 10:43pm On Dec 26, 2016
Probz:


It's no worse than lumping two quite disparate groups under the overarching term of a tribe they're only somehow related to inguistically.

Igala and Itsekiri people speak a Yoruboid language but no one calls them Yoruba. I'm aware Igbo has greater linguistic diversity and there's more Igboid than Yoruboid languages. It doesn't mean that the Igboid-speaking communities are Igbo.

How do you differentiate Igboid from Igbo


Are you mistaking dialect from language


Delta north speak Igbo and are Igbo
North River state till bonny and opobo speak

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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by PabloAfricanus(m): 10:51pm On Dec 26, 2016
Probz:


It's no worse than lumping two quite disparate groups under the overarching term of a tribe they're only somehow related to inguistically.

Igala and Itsekiri people speak a Yoruboid language but no one calls them Yoruba. I'm aware Igbo has greater linguistic diversity and there's more Igboid than Yoruboid languages. It doesn't mean that the Igboid-speaking communities are Igbo.

Are you trying to say way before the colonial masters came, some people who ARE NOT Igbos
suddenly started speaking Igbo in an era of closely knit communities, clans and kingdoms.
Never mind that the Igbos have no historical record of kingdoms, conquests or invasions of other people's land?
In other words, "Igboid"-speaking communities and their practice of "Igbo" tradition and customs is not as a result of contact/interaction/kinship with other "Igbo" clans or groups...but the explanation should be looked for elsewhere, right?
Maybe attribute it to trading or some other reason like close boundaries and the like, but never kinship. cheesy grin


Presumably this makes less sense to you than lumping together 2 neighbouring peoples or communities who do NOT speak each others languages,
do NOT practice the same culture and do NOT have the same deities right?
Or as some others have argued in the past, groups and clans who speak the same language and practice the same customs/traditions DO NOT NECESSARILY have to be related, but groups who do NOT are actually infact related, even when there is no evidence, right?
Never mind that historical records of migration, cultural affiliations and long standing traditions IN ADDITION TO LANGUAGE are universally recognized as markers of ethnic origins.

Apparently, way back then, language was so fluid and easy to learn that they had language schools and academies where Binis, Itshekiris, Hausas, Nupes, Igbos, Tivs, Yorubas and Fulanis folks send their kids to go learn each other's language right?
You know, for some obscure reason scientists are yet to unravel, after those precolonial people's have attended these ancient language academies, they went back to their ancestral lands and promptly forgot their native tongues, customs and traditions...

Hilarious don't you think? undecided grin
Or did I misinterpret your point? angry

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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 11:17pm On Dec 26, 2016
AmuDimpka:


How do you differentiate Igboid from Igbo


Are you mistaking dialect from language


Delta north speak Igbo and are Igbo
North River state till bonny and opobo speak

And I'm saying that the Enuani, spoken in parts of Delta North, is an Igbo dialect and that the remaining two languages in Anioma (Ika and Ukwuani) are Igboid.

It's my understanding that Ngwa, Onitsha, Awka, etc., (even the less intelligible Waawa) are all dialects of the Igbo language. Ikwerre, Ika, Ogba, and the more divergent Ukwuani and Ekpeye are all Igboid languages.

Just like there's speakers of Yoruba and Igala and Itsekiri speakers. Igala and Itsekiri speak Yoruboid languages but they're not Yoruba.

My problem is with eastern Igbos calling every south-southerner who happens to speak an Igboid language (not even Igbo dialect) as Igbo because of linguistic similarities. Yorubas don't claim Igalas and Itsekiris in the way Igbos like to claim Ogbas and Ekpeyes.

It's not the average Nigerian that differentiates between Igbo proper vs. Igboid in Anioma or any other south-south region but it actually makes sense given how the Igbo denial wanes as you move further east from Agbor/Ika to Asaba (even though exceptions do exist). My reasoning is that these people may well be right to reject any affiliation with an ethnic group they don't even belong to but that the average Nigerian lumps in as 'Delta Igbo' for political reasons or convenience.

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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by laudate: 11:36pm On Dec 26, 2016
Probz:
I don't appreciate useless and nonsense answers like these. If you're not gonna add to the discussion, commot.

I don talk say I no go laugh today, but..... cheesy grin... this is an epic response!
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by laudate: 11:40pm On Dec 26, 2016
Wulfruna:
Listen, do not quote me again if you can't say something smart. You obviously did not read beyond the title. The writer started off by trying to tell us which of the Anioma groups are pure Igbo and which one are Edo hybrids.

He or she claimed Ika and Ukwuani as Edoid-Igboid and Enuani as pure Igbo. My comments only intended to point out that Enuani has a lot of clans who do not lay claim to pure Igbo blood (as he thinks), but are also "Edoid-Igbo", to use his language. I mentioned two prominent Enuani individuals who disclaim Igboness in order to highlight that such denials exist in Enuani as much as they exist in Ika and Ukwuani.

The only derailer here is you, with your lack of comprehension and eagerness to pick a pointless fight. Seek understanding or stop quoting me.

Epic!! cheesy Great, succinct response. Well done, ma'am!

2 Likes

Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by laudate: 11:45pm On Dec 26, 2016
AjiereTuwo:
Jobless ipob yoots una no dey tire, what of the indigenous Ijaws (ndoki) in Abia state, the Authentic Igalas in onitsha anambra and Enugu The indigenous bini of onitsha, the ibibio of Abia, the Idoma of Enugu,

Bros, e be like say you dey read my mind....! cheesy

ChinenyeN:
Odo nunu?

It's as if people are neglecting the historical context of how "Igbo" people even became "Igbo" people to begin with. Igbo is first and foremost a linguistic classification. The ethnic identity is after the fact, and it isn't something that everyone accepts. So, if your community's vernacular is by definition an Igbo speech form, then you are by definition classified as an Igbo-speaking person. Ethnic identity is a different discussion.

People who try to use this newfound ethnic identity to delineate relationship do all the communities in "Igboland" a strong disservice, because pre-colonial relationships between communities had nothing to do with "Igbo" identity. You will see otherwise "Igbo" communities with historical, cultural and ethnic ties with otherwise "Ijaw" communities, or otherwise "Igala" communities or otherwise "Ibibio" communities, or otherwise "Edo" communities or otherwise... ah you get my point.

This idea of "truly Igbo" or "genuinely Igbo" is a farce and does nothing more than insult the pre-colonial histories of various "Igbo" peoples.

Hmmmn....! This is really food for thought. Thanks for the education, sir. wink

1 Like

Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 11:51pm On Dec 26, 2016
Is everything epic to you, laudete?
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by laudate: 11:56pm On Dec 26, 2016
Probz:
Is everything epic to you, laudete?

I like the word. Is that a crime? cheesy
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 12:06am On Dec 27, 2016
Wulfruna:


Listen, do not quote me again if you can't say something smart. You obviously did not read beyond the title. The writer started off by trying to tell us which of the Anioma groups are pure Igbo and which one are Edo hybrids.

He or she claimed Ika and Ukwuani as Edoid-Igboid and Enuani as pure Igbo. My comments only intended to point out that Enuani has a lot of clans who do not lay claim to pure Igbo blood (as he thinks), but are also "Edoid-Igbo", to use his language. I mentioned two prominent Enuani individuals who disclaim Igboness in order to highlight that such denials exist in Enuani as much as they exist in Ika and Ukwuani.

The only derailer here is you, with your lack of comprehension and eagerness to pick a pointless fight. Seek understanding or stop quoting me.

Fam, I'm no author.
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by ChinenyeN(m): 12:17am On Dec 27, 2016
Probz:


It's no worse than lumping two quite disparate groups under the overarching term of a tribe they're only somehow related to inguistically.

Igala and Itsekiri people speak a Yoruboid language but no one calls them Yoruba. I'm aware Igbo has greater linguistic diversity and there's more Igboid than Yoruboid languages. It doesn't mean that the Igboid-speaking communities are Igbo.

You're discussing something other than what I am talking about. I'm not talking about the ethnic identity itself. I'm talking about the historical context surrounding it, and why it makes no sense for people to continue talking about some phantom "Igboness" defined outside of that historical context. The historical context is not only linguistics, but linguistics is the first and foremost contributing factor to that context.

PabloAfricanus, you are correct. The topic has been overflogged, hence my "Odo nunu?" statement at the beginning. To address your comment though, you are adding in words that I did not say. I stated specifically that Igbo is first and foremost a linguistic classification and the ethnic identity is after the fact. I did not call it secondary. The discussion of an "Igbo ethnic identity" is ultimately only one item in the entire historical context that we are now referring to as "Igbo". Dwelling on that specific item is beyond the scope of my particular post. The point of my post is to emphasize yet again just how much people clearly do not know about what "Igbo" truly is.

@Topic: As it is now, this topic will eventually get to the point where people will have to come to terms with the fact that either no one is Igbo or everyone who speaks a type of Igbo is Igbo. Anything in between is arbitrary and neglects the historical context that created what we now call "Igbo people".

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