martha89:
The guy is not Esan but he might be from Edo,how times have you see Esan fighting anyone on nairaland?

Isn't Esan Edo or are they now in Delta? The issue is that he argued with some facebook Igbos and took it beyond a joke it should be.

Abagworo:


Isn't Esan Edo or are they now in Delta? The issue is that he argued with some facebook Igbos and took it beyond a joke it should be.

The guy is a benin guy and he has many fake id...

Abagworo:
This thread was opened by an angry Esan guy and will give you an insight on the fact that other Benin originated people view Ika as Igbos.

www.nairaland.com/3650946/esan-people-not-igbo

Are you serious? Using that mad man's ranting to make a point? Even when all known Edos on Nairaland have denied him? Seems you don't have any point

Like i've been belaboring, i don't care whether Ika ir Igbo or not. Whatever the case may be, i think the Igbo nation is not getting it's due credit. We were taught in secondary school that the Igbos did not have a centralised system of government as everything was decentralised and every village were independent from each other. But from what i'm reading on this thread, it seems the Igbos may be one of the greatest colonizers in this part of the world. For the Ika and Ikwerre people to abandon whichever language they used to speak for an Igboid one goes to show this fact.

bigfrancis21:


@bold...this is very wrong because you are taking current circumstances and applying it to what happened centuries ago. The concept of Igbos being travelers to distant lands started only since the coming of the british. Before then, Igbos existed in well-delineated clans of their own with no central authority. Second, there is no proof of you that you can furnish about Igbos going anywhere and renaming the place or wiping off the existing people's town name or language. That's absurd. You are trying to come up with this reason to 'buttress' ika being different but ask yourself twice if that is really true? Do you really believe that? Have you forgotten that there was no 'collective' Igbo people 400 years ago who all called themselves Igbos and were out on a mission to go colonize other lands? The ethnic consciousness of the people called Igbo started with British civilization. 100 years ago an Nnewi man would tell you he is Nnewi not Igbo, an Awka man would tell you the same too, etcetera. Also between the 1400s to 1700s, many Igbo-speaking slaves arriving the new world were shocked to get there and were called 'ebo'. Many of them admitted that they had never heard of such name back home and that their identity was the village or town which they came from. There was no 'collective Igbo' ethnic group or tribe existing several centuries ago out on a mission to colonize Ika land or non-Igbo speaking areas. That of Bonny happened by chance and the natives were also part of the reason Igbo is the mother tongue in the area (after the abolishment of slavery, thousands of Igbo slaves destined for slavery were stuck in the island, as bonny was one of the major ports from which Igbo slaves were sold. The natives felt Ibani language was sacred and made it secret language spoken only within themselves and did not teach outsiders their language but instead learned Igbo to communicate with the teeming population of Igbo slaves and settlers in the town, which led to the gradual displacement of Ibani in the town for Igbo instead. Remember that at this time, there was no ethnic consciousness or allegiance paid to any ethnic group but instead what people knew then were just languages without the concept of belonging ethnically to the people of that language) and Opobo was an outstretch of Bonny.

As for that of the missionaries bringing Igbo-speaking priests to Ika land to 'Igbonize' Ikas, it is not as simple as abc as you think. First of all, the missionaries, who happened to be whites, not Igbo, thank God, brought Igbo-speaking priests to Ika land because despite being outsiders they recognized that the people spoke and understood a speech form or dialect similar to other Igbo speakers. Recognize here that the missionaries did not care about ethnicity nor paid allegiance to any, their mission was to spread their message to everyone the fastest and easiest way that they could. However, they were faced with a daunting task being that the people under the 'Igbo-speaking' umbrella spoke way too many different dialects, many which were often unintelligible to the other and they had to come up with one dialect which they felt everyone should be able to understand. It started with the Anglican missionaries importing an Igbo dialect called 'isuama', spoken by liberated Igbo slaves in sierra leone to Igboland which failed because the 'isuama' spoken in SL happened to be a mixture of several Igbo dialects given that these liberated Igbo slaves came from different areas in Igboland. In fact, the earliest evangelical mission to Igboland in 'Isuama' dialect (resembling southern Igbo dialects, more like owerri-etche dialects etc.) failed at Aboh because the people of Aboh (Ndokwa) could not understand what was being said in 'Isuama' at first attempt (which would not be so today when Igbo speakers are more exposed to other Igbo dialects). Thus the ultimate search for a unifying Igbo dialect ensued and it is a long story from there onwards. My point is, recognize that as of 100 to 180 years ago or more when the missionaries landed in Ika land, they must have identified that the Ika people were Igbo-speaking to begin with, and thus brought Igbo-speaking priests trained in the gospel to spread the word. That's all they cared about - spreading the gospel. Anything to facilitate that, they did. This was happening at a time when Igbos were not as well travelled as today to be exposed to other dialects and speakers of Igbo dialects at opposite extremes of the Igbo language continuum were worst hit at understanding each other. If you claim Ika was only 20% Igbo as of then and probably 80% Bini, why then did the white missionaries not bring Edo-speaking priests to Ika land to preach the gospel to them? Till today I am amazed at how accurate descriptions of southern Nigerian tribes written by foreigners 400 years ago or more are even till today. Pick up any book of yore of southern Nigeria written by foreigners and you'd be amazed at how accurate they were. These foreigners were able to tell accurately which language was which and where speakers of each language started and ended (or their boundaries). So you cannot tell me that these missionaries 'made a mistake' at assuming Ika people were Igbo speakers because their accuracy as of 200 to 500 years back stand outs clearly. These missionaries did not bring Yoruba priests to Igboland did they? Why? Because they clearly knew Igboland was not Yoruba speaking. Thus, they should have brought Bini-speaking priests to Ika land if Ika was 'originally' Bini to begin with or 80% Edoid as you claimed, which history has shown severally to be false.

In every language worldwide due to the natural occurrence of several dialects, there is often a standard form which is spoken and understood by everyone and the dialects spoken locally by their speakers. Standard Igbo being spoken or used in official levels in Ika land or in other areas of Igbo land is no different from standard English spoken in the US (with so many dialects and accents spanning across north to south), or standard English spoken in the UK (with different dialects such as Manchester, Chelsea, etc.) or standard Spanish spoken in Mexico (with so many dialects and even native american languages) etc.

For what is is, Ika is simply an Igbo dialect with Bini loan words and sometimes Bini inflections. Let's not make things more complex than they really are. Do yourself a favour, tear a sheet of paper and write out 10 sentences in Ika dialect and compare it with Bini and Igbo and tell us which it closely resembles. The Ohafia people who live close to the Ibibio-speaking areas sometimes speak Igbo with sort of an Ibibio accent, which is expected or normal due to assimilation and inter-marriage with Ibibio people which may have occurred several centuries ago, yet Ohafia is an Igbo dialect and not Ibibio.

correct

Cire80:
I don't believe in the Ika 77% to Igbo because it's just an estimation. How exactly is anyone able to arrive at an accurate percentage? Just like every other academic research work, the findings are never accurate. Another researcher will come out with a different result tomorrow and which one will you take as accurate? But going by your analogy, so if we decide to use the 80% benchmark, Ika is a language of it's own? Don't forget Ika has two words for most words and they are mostly Edoid and Igboid. The Edoid words are more ancient and fastly going extinct. But that doesn't mean they're no longer Ika words.

Guy stop fooling yourself with this Igbophobia...I've the doc redbonesmith is quoting from and he's very correct.

Moreover from that document, it seems most Igbo dialects exclusive of Onicha are nasalized... Going from ika to ukwuani to ndele to ogba to owere to ohuhu/ngwa to æbriba to æhugbo to izi to udi. Only onicha doesn't show nasalization... As for ækpæyæ, that one dey a world of their own and they're the only people that'd say they're not Igbo and I'd agree.

Does anyone have an ækpæyæ dictionary in e-format??
Biko?

cheruv:

Guy stop fooling yourself with this Igbophobia...I've the doc redbonesmith is quoting from and he's very correct.

Moreover from that document, it seems most Igbo dialects exclusive of Onicha are nasalized... Going from ika to ukwuani to ndele to ogba to owere to ohuhu/ngwa to æbriba to æhugbo to izi to udi. Only onicha doesn't show nasalization... As for ækpæyæ, that one dey a world of their own and they're the only people that'd say they're not Igbo and I'd agree.

Does anyone have an ækpæyæ dictionary in e-format??
Biko?

Just like every other of your brothers here you lack brain. The person I quoted knows the context of which I quoted him and any other reasonable person here understands as well. So run along

Cire80:
Just like every other of your brothers here you lack brain. The person I quoted knows the context of which I quoted him and any other reasonable person here understands as well. So run along

I'd run after you bro
Instead of you returning to Idu from where your ancestors fled from you're here trying to claim the land of the people who harbored them on their flight from Benin.
All these Benin land thieves no go kill me with laughter

Cire80:
Just like every other of your brothers here you lack brain. The person I quoted knows the context of which I quoted him and any other reasonable person here understands as well. So run along

If you despise anything Igbo, the language, customs etc and so favor your bini ancestry why not relocate to Edo state? Or that option has never occurred to you before? If you're one of those with foreign-sounding surnames in an igbo-speaking area such as okunbor, irabor etc. isn't it clear that you're a foreigner from bini/edo? What stops you from returning to Edo state and forgetting anything Igbo, a tribe you love to despise?

bigfrancis21:


If you despise anything Igbo, the language, customs etc and so favor your bini ancestry why not relocate to Edo state? Or that option has never occurred to you before? If you're one of those with foreign-sounding surnames in an igbo-speaking area such as okunbor, irabor etc. isn't it clear that you're a foreigner from bini/edo? What stops you from returning to Edo state and forgetting anything Igbo, a tribe you love to despise?

If you think I'm Igbo hating, that's your business. I don't have time to hate or despise anybody but if you see my bluntness as hate, good for you.

You guys are very ignorant and you come online to display such ignorance. Did anybody tell you guys there is differences between Igbo-surname bearing and Edo-surname bearing Ika. What display of Ignorance.

And for your information, I'm in my fatherland. The land of ancestors. An Ika speaking area. You can only ask me to vacate my land for you only online. If you try this in real life anywhere near Ika, you might lose your brains to bullet

Cire80:
If you think I'm Igbo hating, that's your business. I don't have time to hate or despise anybody but if you see my bluntness as hate, good for you.

You guys are very ignorant and you come online to display such ignorance. Did anybody tell you guys there is differences between Igbo-surname bearing and Edo-surname bearing Ika. What display of Ignorance.

And for your information, I'm in my fatherland. The land of ancestors. An Ika speaking area. You can only ask me to vacate my land for you only online. If you try this in real life anywhere near Ika, you might lose your brains to bullet

Dude you're a foreigner. Ika is not your fatherland. Return to edo state or you speak for your own immigrant family. Do not drag the entire Ika Igbo into your immigrant stories.

Igboland needs a Donald Trump to put an end to all these immigrant noises in Igboland. We have been too peaceful with you all for so long. Imagine foreigners making the loudest noise in an area that does not belong to them.

You think we can't pursue you immigrants out of Ika land if we wanted to?

Of course favour99 is Cire80. Newbie on NL and only after a couple of posts on this thread, 'it' is nowhere to be found.

cc.bigfrancis21

I've been reading your earlier post and it's genuinely made me consider the thing from a wholly different point of view re. Ikas and Ukwuanis. How much of Ika do you understand relative to some of the more concentrated southeastern dialects (Waawa, Izzi-Ezza-Mgbo-Ikwo cluster, Edda, Aro, Ohafia, Abiriba)? The intonation if nothing else is what throws me when it comes to Ika (and to a lesser extent Ukwuani).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTeyLw6gKxE

The individual lexicon's a little different from more mainstream Igbo dialects but it still sounds 100% Igbo even if the Cross Riverian/Ibibio influence is there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ltIzwR03ks

You can hear a lot of Igbo words in this Ika clip but it's hard (for me at least) to make out the bulk of it by the inflection if nothing else. It doesn't sound like Igbo (I won't dispute that it's an Igbo language though).

Probz:
cc.bigfrancis21
You can hear a lot of Igbo words in this Ika clip but it's hard (for me at least) to make out the bulk of it by the inflection if nothing else. It doesn't sound like Igbo (I won't dispute that it's an Igbo language though).

The emboldened is the greatest mistake people often make when the issue of Igboness is discussed. There's a clear line between popular Igbo culture and Igbo culture (which is not homogenous and varies from place to place). That we don't say IGBO KWENU or wear the red cap in my place doesn't make us less Igbo. Some of these cultures are borrowed from other Igbo groups to align with the center but it doesn't mean that they have always been like that historically.

Now to the language issue, it's very convenient to pick a dialect of your chic and then compare it with Ika in order to buttress a held bias. Can you do us a favour and do the same thing for EZZA and IZZI in comparison to Ika, let's see if the story will remain the same.

Probz:
cc.bigfrancis21

I've been reading your earlier post and it's genuinely made me consider the thing from a wholly different point of view re. Ikas and Ukwuanis. How much of Ika do you understand relative to some of the more concentrated southeastern dialects (Waawa, Izzi-Ezza-Mgbo-Ikwo cluster, Edda, Aro, Ohafia, Abiriba)? The intonation if nothing else is what throws me when it comes to Ika (and to a lesser extent Ukwuani).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTeyLw6gKxE

The individual lexicon's a little different from more mainstream Igbo dialects but it still sounds 100% Igbo even if the Cross Riverian/Ibibio influence is there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ltIzwR03ks

You can hear a lot of Igbo words in this Ika clip but it's hard (for me at least) to make out the bulk of it by the inflection if nothing else. It doesn't sound like Igbo (I won't dispute that it's an Igbo language though).

I spent some time growing up in Owerri and have 'an ear' sort of to southern Igbo dialects. Owerri/Etche/Ngor-Okpala/Mbaise I understand perfectly. My mother was from Enugu state and growing up she often spoke her Oji River dialect at home, thus exposing me to the general feel of Enugu dialects such as Nkanu etc (often referred to as waawa). One of my mom's family friends is from Ohaozara Ebonyi state and I spent some time in her house during my NYSC and it shared about 30% similarity with my mom's native dialect of Enugu state and I understood everything she spoke with her husband or her relatives over the phone. I spent 5 years going to school in Nsukka and I do not have a hard time understanding the dialect. I can't speak for Izzi, Ezza etc. as I have not been exposed to those for some time.

I listened to both clips you provided. At first attempt I understand Ika at about at least 70% given it's slight similarity to Owerri where I did my secondary school. With my 'southern ear', I quite also understood what the Abiriba guy was saying but I understand Opobo/Bonny better than Abiriba.

Someone said if you grew up in Igboland, you would definitely understand whatever dialect you come across, even if not up to 100% but you'd get a general feel of what the speaker is trying to communicate, and I agree with that.

Having seen the Ekpeye dictionary, it shows the highest divergence from the Igbo cluster and I would not regard it as an Igbo dialect but a standalone Igboid language of its own.

bigfrancis21:


I spent some time growing up in Owerri and have 'an ear' sort of to southern Igbo dialects. Owerri/Etche/Ngor-Okpala/Mbaise I understand perfectly. My mother was from Enugu state and growing up she often spoke her Oji River dialect at home, thus exposing me to the general feel of Enugu dialects such as Nkanu etc (often referred to as waawa). One of my mom's family friends is from Ohaozara Ebonyi state and I spent some time in her house during my NYSC and it shared about 30% similarity with my mom's native dialect of Enugu state and I understood everything she spoke with her husband or her relatives over the phone. I spent 5 years going to school in Nsukka and I do not have a hard time understanding the dialect. I can't speak for Izzi, Ezza etc. as I have not been exposed to those for some time.

I listened to both clips you provided. At first attempt I understand Ika at about at least 70% given it's slight similarity to Owerri where I did my secondary school. With my 'southern ear', I quite also understood what the Abiriba guy was saying but I understand Opobo/Bonny better than Abiriba.

Someone said if you grew up in Igboland, you would definitely understand whatever dialect you come across, even if not up to 100% but you'd get a general feel of what the speaker is trying to communicate, and I agree with that.

I'm not really exposed to southern Igbo dialect and that is why when i found myself in Egbema in Imo state, i was like, what sort of Igbo dialect is this that is so hard to understand. Few months later, i could understand Egbema dialect perfectly save for a few words here and there. What i just needed to do was to understand the base upon which the dialect was built on and hearing it now, it doesn't sound strange at all.

I think it's not enough to grow up in Igboland, you have to be exposed to atleast the two branches of Igbo dialects (Northern and southern). I've noticed that a lot of people from the Anambra and Enugu axis of Igboland always look down at the dialects spoken in Imo,Abia and Rivers state. That is because they're not really exposed to those dialects.

Afam4eva:

The emboldened is the greatest mistake people often make when the issue of Igboness is discussed. There's a clear line between popular Igbo culture and Igbo culture (which is not homogenous and varies from place to place). That we don't say IGBO KWENU or wear the red cap in my place doesn't make us less Igbo. Some of these cultures are borrowed from other Igbo groups to align with the center but it doesn't mean that they have always been like that historically.

Now to the language issue, it's very convenient to pick a dialect of your chic and then compare it with Ika in order to buttress a held bias. Can you do us a favour and do the same thing for EZZA and IZZI in comparison to Ika, let's see if the story will remain the same.

I've already talked about Izzi and Ezza. Most mainstream Igbos can barely decipher more than a quarter of northern Ebonyi dialects (Abakaliki axis) and I'm no exception. I can decipher the southern ones a little more but not upland.

I'm past the stage of debating whether Ika and Ukwuani are linguistically Igbo or Igboid. The whole point of this thread was me understanding the history behind Delta Igbo and this thread's genuinely opened my eyes. Doesn't mean it sounds mainstream Igbo to me, which you'll notice was my choice of words. The intonation's clearly foreign even if the vocabulary's the same.

Afam4eva:

I'm not really exposed to southern Igbo dialect and that is why when i found myself in Egbema in Imo state, i was like, what sort of Igbo dialect is this that is so hard to understand. Few months later, i could understand Egbema dialect perfectly save for a few words here and there. What i just needed to do was to understand the base upon which the dialect was built on and hearing it now, it doesn't sound strange at all.

I think it's not enough to grow up in Igboland, you have to be exposed to atleast the two branches of Igbo dialects (Northern and southern). I've noticed that a lot of people from the Anambra and Enugu axis of Igboland always look down at the dialects spoken in Imo,Abia and Rivers state. That is because they're not really exposed to those dialects.

It's mostly Anambra people that do this. Enugu people aren't in any position to look down on other dialects with the Wawa they speak.

Probz:
[/b]

It's mostly Anambra people that do this. Enugu people aren't in any position to look down on other dialects with the Wawa they speak.

I won't lie, some of my people do this and you won't blame us nau... ...our respective dialects are often very easy to speak and understand by every Igbo speaker such that some people think we speak 'central igbo' because it is easily understood by everyone. Back in the day up till the 90s Onicha used to be the spoken 'central Igbo' sort of.

Probz:


I've already talked about Izzi and Ezza. Most mainstream Igbos can barely decipher more than a quarter of northern Ebonyi dialects (Abakaliki axis) and I'm no exception. I can decipher the southern ones a little more but not upland.

I'm past the stage of debating whether Ika and Ukwuani are linguistically Igbo or Igboid. The whole point of this thread was me understanding the history behind Delta Igbo and this thread's genuinely opened my eyes. Doesn't mean it sounds mainstream Igbo to me, which you'll notice was my choice of words. The intonation's clearly foreign even if the vocabulary's the same.

Fair enough...

I think the earlier we all accepted that the Igbo denials in Delta and Rivers state is more political, the better for us. if the area currently know aas Delta Igbo had been in the east by political delineation, this denials would never arise. The fact that Delta state had been in the western region, midwest and now the south-south is what gives some people the effrontery to go on a journey of denials. Now, why are the denials more pronounced in Ika than Aniocha/Oshimili. It's very simple. The people in Ika have a basis for holding their idea. This basis is what people like Cire80 and Agboetan in the past have been hinging their argument on which is the Edo/Bini influence in Ika. The Aniocha/Oshimili people would have been as stubborn if not for the fact that there would be no strong basis for their argument, Their dialects is just too central and it would fall flat if they dare to use language in their argument. So, what the few of them from that axis like Emeka Esogbue hinge on is by lumping Aniocha/Oshimili with Ika and Ukwuani and then they tell you that Anioma people from from Yoruba, Igala, Edo and Ibo. Always noticed that they always make Igbo come last in order not to suggest anything to people.

bigfrancis21:


I won't lie, some of my people do this and you won't blame us nau... ...our respective dialects are often very easy to speak and understand by every Igbo speaker such that some people think we speak 'central igbo' because it is easily understood by everyone. Back in the day up till the 90s Onicha used to be the spoken 'central Igbo' sort of.

As do mine. I hail from Anambra myself.

I've noticed that not all of Ebonyi speaks alien Igbo, though. That's more of a thing with the Abakaliki axis (Izzi-Ikwo-Ezza). I know people from Afikpo (Edda) and their dialects are more related to Abiriba, Aro, and other Eastern Igbo dialects than northern Ebonyi dialects and anyone with 'an ear for southern dialects' would find that easier to sabi since Afikpo used to be in Abia.

Probz:
[/b]

It's mostly Anambra people that do this. Enugu people aren't in any position to look down on other dialects with the Wawa they speak.

I'm actually WAWA and our dialect is not that bad. You have to understand that Enugu do what Anambra people do. Most Enugu people will speak impecable central Igbo to you even more than Anambra peeps. Rarely will you come across an Nkanu person that will speak their Nkanu dialect when taking to another Igbo person. This is not the case with people from Abia and Imo. An owerri person will always converse with you in Owerri dialect whether or not you understand it. Same with Ngwa people.

This is Ogba dialect of Rivers State. The cultural beats and dance style look very mainstream Igbo. The dialect too in pronunciation doesn't sound foreign.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU02-Nv7S9E

Afam4eva:

I'm actually WAWA and our dialect is not that bad. You have to understand that Enugu do what Anambra people do. Most Enugu people will speak impecable central Igbo to you even more than Anambra peeps. Rarely will you come across an Nkanu person that will speak their Nkanu dialect when taking to another Igbo person. This is not the case with people from Abia and Imo. An owerri person will always converse with you in Owerri dialect whether or not you understand it. Same with Ngwa people.

I know re. Wawa. It's mostly the Nsukka and deep Nkanu dialects that give Wawa a bad name on the linguistic front. I dunno for Oji River and Ezeagu but Udi's not that divergent from general Anambra Igbo.

Probz:


I know re. Wawa. It's mostly the Nsukka and deep Nkanu dialects that give Wawa a bad name on the linguistic front. I dunno for Oji River and Ezeagu but Udi's not that divergent from general Anambra Igbo.

Yeah, Udi is more similar to Anambra dialects. My part of wawa is not even as deep as the one you find when you go to places like Akpugo etc.

Pashi iyom ebomu

What can tell me what i wrote above.

[code][/code]

bigfrancis21:
This is Ogba dialect of Rivers State. The cultural beats and dance style look very mainstream Igbo. The dialect too in pronunciation doesn't sound foreign.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU02-Nv7S9E

I'm sure I've read that there's Ogba communities in Imo as well as Rivers state and that doesn't surprise me given how mainline their dialect sounds (and cultural display looks).

Ogba and Ikwerre are still classed as Igboid somehow.

That's actually the other half of this thread (Rivers Igbos). What's the history behind Bonny-Opobo and Igbo-Ijaw interplay in those areas?

Afam4eva:

Yeah, Udi is more similar to Anambra dialects. My part of wawa is not even as deep as the one you find when you go to places like Akpugo etc.

Pashi iyom ebomu

What can tell me what i wrote above.

I can't tell you jack. Wanna put me out of my misery?

Probz:
I can't tell you jack. Wanna put me out of my misery?

Pashi = dowe ya = keep
Iyon = That thing
Ebomu = There

Pashi iyom ebomu = Keep that thing there

In which universe does this sound Igbo?

Afam4eva:


Pashi = dowe ya = keep
Iyon = That thing
Ebomu = There

Pashi iyom ebomu = Keep that thing there

In which universe does this sound Igbo?

\

No universe on this side of the galaxy. It reads more Calabar than Igbo

bigfrancis21:
Of course favour99 is Cire80. Newbie on NL and only after a couple of posts on this thread, 'it' is nowhere to be found.

You guys have problems. Seriously?

Cire80:
You guys have problems. Seriously?

Your attempt at trying to defend the imposter moniker makes you even more guilty. Quit it already dude. I am not new to this forum.