Oghumu1:

Maybe you didnt get his points... he's saying whats the essence carrying a pregnancy test when we know there are so many ways they could have sex and not get pregnant and when the test comes out negative they celebrate them while the one who has kept the pregnancy is been seen as a bad type and not celebrated...it should stop, lets not judge and when people discover their mistake and ask for forgivenss lets forgive and move on..

When we meet God, this excuses we are trying to give in order to enjoy sin, hmmm.

If they have sex using protection, they are sinners, the consequences will catch up with them, but if they are repentant, what shd they do? Give birth to the child first. Do not come and thrust the evidence of your sins before others insisting they go with you.

The child Bethsheba had for David as a result of adultery died even when David repented, cried and begged, God said No. After me married her properly. Then Solomon came. Biko nu.

Na wao for us o. Disobedience in the hearts of men

701ecilana:

I don't understand pls. You mean all our sins are forgiven so we can free continue in them? Shall we continue in sin so that grace can abound? God for bit.

Romans:6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Jesus didn't die for you to continue in sin. He kept saying, 'Go and sin no more'.

So u r concluding that she will sin again after marrying with pregnancy ?

Pavarottii:

So u r concluding that she will sin again after marrying with pregnancy ?

Sin again how? lol. Do you why there's so much adultery in marriages? This is why. If we can brazenly sin against God, then we can sin against man. Every Christian knows that sex outside of marriage is a.sin, but does it anyways, wen they marry they will do it easily too.

This is the root of adultery in marriage from both parties.

And, wen there's crisis, there is the tendency that they can consult demons, because its the exact same thing before God. They never trusted God enough to obey Him anyways.

clefstone:
My friend, from my post I emphasized the fact that the sin a pregnant single has committed is fornication not pregnancy. Therefore, if they be denied marriage on account of being pregnant, then all christians that hv fornicated, even once should automatically disqualify from having their union solemnized in church.
If you read my op you would have seen some scriptural references. However, the craze for scriptural evidences to all common sense argument is one reason the Pharisees had issues with Christ. Christianity is a principle based religion, not a totally law based one. If u r a true christian, you really don't need bible quotes to make every decisions or even a pastor's opinion. Christianity is based on the principle of Love. Love doesn't judge, love forgives, love is just. Discriminating against people and condemning them because they have committed fornication is not love and is definitely not christian.

your head was working at 99% capacity & it was really on the neck God gave you when you wrote this piece

TheUmbra:


So why doesn't the same principle apply to a pregnant woman exchanging marital vows with her bridegroom? As you rightly put it "the child though being in the womb of his mother is a separate entity. The child has no knowledge of whatever his or her parents are up to or actively participates,..."

Marriage has to do with two people becoming one and not three people. The child is a separate entity as I said but is being carried by his mother, though he doesn't participate in the she vow thing but its two becoming one and not three.

701ecilana:

Sin again how? lol. Do you why there's so much adultery in marriages? This is why. If we can brazenly sin against God, then we can sin against man. Every Christian knows that sex outside of marriage is a.sin, but does it anyways, wen they marry they will do it easily too.

This is the root of adultery in marriage from both parties.

And, wen there's crisis, there is the tendency that they can consult demons, because its the exact same thing before God. They never trusted God enough to obey Him anyways.

So if u r the pastor to wed them Wat will u do?

clefstone:
you just shot youself in d foot with this ur response

Nope, not even close. Perhaps u don't understand what I'm saying. Let me for the last time put it to u.
Marriage has to do with two people becoming one and not three people. The child is a separate entity as I said but is being carried by his mother, though he doesn't participate in the the vow thing but marriage is two becoming one and not three. The church cannot marry or join together as is said d man his wife and the child on the altar.

Pavarottii:

So if u r the pastor to wed them Wat will u do?

I.will not wed them.

KJV:Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

it is SO SO UNCHRISTIAN to be pregnant before marriage.
God bless you

clefstone:
The mother and child are separate entity, having different DNA and blood types, the mother's vow is her vow and doesn't involve the unborn child in any way

This doesn't deserve a response... It is devoid of any real intellectual input.

clefstone:
It is becoming a trend in many churches to refuse marriage to intending couples on account of pregnancy. It has become a common practice to undertake a pregnancy test before joining a couple in most of these churches. Those couple whose result come out as positive are then deprived from getting wedded. This practice is ungodly, unbiblical, unchristian and dangerous. I will highlight my points in the following paragraphs

The nature of God and the nature of man are distinct. One of God's nature is that of mercy, hence we frequently say GOD IS MERCIFUL. Now, a couple that get's pregnant before marriage have obviously committed the sin of fornication. However, if they have asked for forgiveness from God, who is merciful, who is man to deny them the privilege of a Christian marriage

THE SIN IS FORNICATION, NOT PREGNANCY. Now, let us look at it this way, couple A and couple B r seeking to get married. pregnancy test is done. couple A's result comes out as negative while couple B's comes out as positive. couple B is denied marriage while couple A is given the nod. Now, assuming that couple A has engaged in sex, it means that couple B is denied marriage, not because they committed fornication, but because they got pregnant. This leads to the question, is the sin pregnancy or the fornication that led to the pregnancy. Since the obvious answer is that the fornication is the sin, couples A and B ought to be disqualified. If this is done, I wonder how many couples will qualify for marriage. Reminds me of the psalmist who wrote, 'if you O Lord will mark our guilt, who will stand'. In this case, if you O lord will mark our sin, who will qualify for marriage.


THE DANGERS OF ABORTION.
Abortion is a grave sin synonymous with murder. The bible says 'thou shall not kill'. In the new testament, Christ said, 'woe unto those that will cause one of this little ones to sin. it will be better for a mill stone to be tied around his neck while he is cast to the sea'.
A direct result of insisting on a negative pregnancy test before marriage is that many young couples, for shame of being exposed and denied 'church wedding' abort their prenancies and wait for their results to come out as negative before presenting themselves for marriage. Some parents even take their children to abortion clinics just because of the stigma and shame. Until the emphasis is shifted from discouraging prenancy to discouraging premarital sex, such premeditated murder of unborn children will continue.

In summary, marriage is a union between a man and a woman, ordained by God. The same God is merciful and admonishes us not to judge. As christians we should therefore desist from using man's fallen nature to reason things of God such as marriage

i quite disagree with this post,this is a covenant between two lives,a man and a woman and with this said,a pregnant woman brings a third life into the covenant,if a man gets a woman pregnant,all he needs to do is to go to the woman's family and pay her bride price,remember this is what the bible demands from a man first and foremost,there was no place in d bible that wedding was made the ultimate sign of marriage,go and pay the bride price,take the woman u got pregnant to ur house,cather for her and after her delivery,u can then plan ur wedding. All this rush to go and wed with early pregnancy is just to reduce the shame of what two people agreed to enjoy in the first place,so in my own opinion,if u can't wait to wed before u start sleeping with ur partner,then wait till u deliver before u start planning ur wedding.. I rest my case

701ecilana:

I.will not wed them.

Please stay with JW doctrine and the old fashion of Christianity. All I know is that I will wed dem happily and God will be glorified. Have a nice day and don't quote me again.

701ecilana:

Am not against Dowry sir, No. But did they pay the dowry before the pregnancy?

You should know that before one is planning to wed in the church, everything about dowry which is regarded as traditional wedding has been taking care of. Why will some churches prevent one from wedding because of pregnancy. Nonsense

clefstone:
what if the Church law goes against God's divine nature?

The fact that church wedding is not mentioned in the bible doesn't mean it's against God's principles and it's for the betterment of its people.

If you must do white wedding in the church, stick to their rules, na by force? If you are a traditional christian, then stick to the traditional rules.

clefstone:
it could be overrated but if u r a traditional christian u will certainly want to do it

What I have come to understand so far is that many people commenting on this thread do not really understand what the op is all about, many kept capitalizing on the fact that fornication is a SIN which was not disputed by the Op. if we all have the mentality of the sheep and the shepherd we will know that a lot of things we do as Christian is just doctrinal and not biblical and most Christian try to help God in passing judgement, we have seen a churche that suspend a couple for "PDA", someone even said on this thread that as a Christian (Spirit Filled) u can't sin what a great heresie. If God reason the way we all do I'm sure by now the world would have ended. the fact that a pregnancy test comes out positive shouldn't be a ground to cancel a wedding, I see that as helping God to pass judgment. there should be other measure to deal with such people, these are some of the reasons we have one God but Plenty churches with their various Doctrines. Before u quote me try and understand my point before someone will say I'm justifying sin.

mikedimeji:

Bros don't run away from it truth we learn every day. Go straight to ur last post, u will see the part I quoted.

I don't get you.
Are saying I should take heed lest I impregnant my would be fiancee before our marriage?. By the grace of God, that can never ever happen.

NEVER!!!
See I don't have any fear that me and my would be wife will bot be productive, which is the reason u believe practise the act of impregnanting their fiancee before marriage to be sure.
For me, I have no such fear. She and I will be fulruitful and indeed multiply.

sddiamond:

You should know that before one is planning to wed in the church, everything about dowry which is regarded as traditional wedding has been taking care of. Why will some churches prevent one from wedding because of pregnancy. Nonsense

Hmmm. Must they wed in church? If wedding in church is nonsense, then don't go there. Everywhere has it's rules, if you have an opposing view, you leave for where agrees with you.

Pavarottii:

Please stay with JW doctrine and the old fashion of Christianity. All I know is that I will wed dem happily and God will be glorified. Have a nice day and don't quote me again.

I no be JW biko

701ecilana:

Hmmm. Must they wed in church? If wedding in church is nonsense, then don't go there. Everywhere has it's rules, if you have an opposing view, you leave for where agrees with you.

i Neva said church wedding is nonsense, I said some churches, you said everywhere has its rules, what happens to teachings in the bible, they should follow the bible teachings and not this act of discrimination. God is merciful and kind, God is love, God is the head of the church, bible is our guild, anyway na dem business, no be the gullible ones dem fit teach nonsense.

sddiamond:

i Neva said church wedding is nonsense, I said some churches, you said everywhere has its rules, what happens to teachings in the bible, they should follow the bible teachings and not this act of discrimination. God is merciful and kind, God is love, God is the head of the church, bible is our guild, anyway na dem business, no be the gullible ones dem fit teach nonsense.

Then leaved them to their gullibility nah. Carry your pregnancy to where you will be accepted.

TheUmbra:


I was talking about prophet "Nathan's narrative" Not David's action, by the way which was ADULTERY AND MURDER and not fornication. You mustn't argue for the love of argument.

Prophet Nathan gave King David a narrative (story) of a poor man with just one lamb versus a rich man with many lambs. That was what inspired my own story. Understanding is key to any debate.

You failed to provide a good analogy, I said it doesn't match. You stated Nathans story would help. Yet there isn't any such analogy in support of your point. How is that my fault? Make your analogy clear bro. All I see is an example against your point in Nathans story.

Please don't make me question your mental strength and intellectual integrity. Exodus 22 : 16 is about SEX BETWEEN UNMARRIED PEOPLE
You have yet again failed to pilot your reasoning into the realms of GOD's wisdom for compelling two unmarried fornicators who aren't engaged to marry. GOD was trying to teach HIS people that you must not commit the sin of fornication. If you do, you must marry her. Not banished from the gathering of HIS people, not cut from among HIS people, as you sanctimoniously opine.

Who says its not sex between unmarried people? God is not saying you must not commit formication. Although you can extend its principle to include illicit sex from unmarried people who mutually engage in it. However, that is not strictly what the law is saying. The law is strictly about seduction from a male folk. So by extension I agree with you, but not strictly the law.

Banished? Where did you get that from? That one does not wed in a church building does not mean she is banished. I don't know how the churches handle it, but if one is repentant, he is not banished.

Remember we are not under the Mosaic law.

The thing we could learn from this law is that God is discouraging the practice of seduction. The law wants a man to be married to a virgin, so you can't disvirgin someone and run away. No one would marry such a woman, so you have to marry her and never will you divorce her. If you go on and seduce another, perhaps, you ll still marry her.

Now, we cannot stick to this mosaic law cos for xtens things are somewhat different now. One may become a xten when she is already disflowered. One may commit fornication, repent and is still accepted in the congregation. This won't prevent her from marrying. Nor will you stone her. The law at Exod 22:16 is given with the entire mosaic law in mind. It was not given in isolation.

Secondly, the one who seduced the girl as in Exod 22:16 is not considered as to whether he is repentant or not. Whether you are repentant or not, you will marry her or at least pay the bride price.

Today, you won't force someone who engage in this habit to marry the gal nor pay a bride price. Rather, the guy is perhaps disfellowshiped for committing that atrocity. However, the girl can still get someone who will marry her without fear of being stoned.

One of the principle we can draw from that Exodus is that God does not permit fornication nor seduction. One can draw this lesson and state that they won't wed those who engage in premarital sex so as to prevent its spread in the church. Rather, let them go to court to wed, but not here in the church. They thus show there frown on such disgraceful habit by their members. After all, it is the couples choice to wed in a church building. It is not compulsory. The church can refuse to marry them to show them that they do not welcome what they did.

However, if actual formication is seen when a man wants to wed a woman, no need to look for the one who disflowered her, she is stoned. (Deut 22:21) so we can't say that Exodus is strictly about fornication. It is clearly not.

The fact that GOD made a provision for them to be married and HE recognised their marriage, and that HE never ordained marriage, no matter how holy the couple may be to be stagged in the temple throws your fallacy out the window of common sense.

Am still wondering which fallacy you mean. I never said God instituted wedding in a church or temple.

I think what you should be up against is any church that feels it is the only channel thru which a marriage can be divinely, legally, and properly consummated. No church should claim that. It is wrong.

When you run out of point, it is far more honourable to stop typing and save yourself unnecessary embarrassment. How does this fit into GOD's word in Exodus 22 : 16. How does this fit into the lives of Mary and Joseph? That tradition is expected of maidens who claimed to be virgins as they go into matrimony. And it's subject to her would-be husband's discretion whether to declare her a virgin or not.

I don't agree with you. If you read Deut 22, it your position doesn't add up. In the event of accusation by the husband of a brides virginity, the Father was to "produce evidence of virginity". Which shows that the cloth that has that evidence must be given to the man so that he brings it out stained. Then it is handed to the father for future reference. No doubt, that is why Joseph wanted to divorse Mary secretly. This will save her from being stoned. Evidence of virginity is something the suitor and the father in law do together. With regard to Mary, Joseph would have agreed with the father to let it slide. He won't raise alarm cos such alarm would lead the elders to request for evidence of virginity. If the father fails to produce it, the bride will be stoned. So I disagree with you.

What I said is valid. You are the one that should quit writing when you don't have evidence.

Just agree that churches and pastors requiring pregnancy test before conducting marriage in their churches missed the purpose of their calling.

If the gal has confessed to the sin, fornication, there wouldnt be any good reason to request for a pregnancy test. If he wish not to wed them, he should state that.

Only the unrepentant sinner will not inherit GOD's Kingdom. For if we confess our sins to HIM , HE is faithful and just to forgive us and cleans of from all our iniquities. (1 john 1:9)

And who said unrepentant sinners will inherit the kingdom?

You're quoting 1 Cor 5 where a whole church was proud of a member who was sleeping with his father's wife. A case of incest and Adultery. The "old laven of malice and wickedness". It was a call for repentance, and not just for the immoral incestuous man but for the whole church.

No, it was a call to remove the man and hand him over to Satan. That is the needful. 1cor 5:


5 you must hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough? 7 Clear away the old leaven so that you may be a new batch, inasmuch as you are free from ferment. For, indeed, Christ our Passover lamb has been sacrificed"

It was a call to disfellowship the man from among them.

Indeed! You are not a sinner. Since the day you surrendered to JESUS, you have lived every day of every minute and of every second, down to this very day in complete holiness!

Oh so that you can sound the good guy? The one who defends sinners. His holiness! Defender of the downtrodden! Common stop the fake righteousness, stop the mock humility. Who is saying he has not sinned. Where did you get that from Mr righture?

There's no law of GOD that gives a pastor or priest to officiate a marital bonding of a man and a woman.

God gave the Father the right to hand over his daughter. What if the father dies, who does God give the power to give out the girl?

Does God say anyone should do a wedding ceremony/reception? Why would Jesus attend one? Where was that written? Who gave them that right?

Whatever kind of marriage one chooses as his or her marital preference, a pastor has no powers to affirm or revoke. The bride price doesn't belong to him, neither nor his church.

You do not chose a marriage different from the custom of the land of the girl you want to marry. If the constitution of the land affirms that a religious instition is authorised to officiate and wed couples, you can't stand there and say its wrong.

That people where deceived into thinking it is the priest/pastor who actually confirms a man and woman husband and wife doesn't mean the pastor or priest can employ extra-scriptural commands on the people because they elected to do a church wedding. The Pharisees who were priests and leaders suffered severe criticism from CHRIST when they commanded the people to observe certain seemingly pious act that had no scriptural support.

If the pastor does so, leave him and go to court and wed. Christ didn't say you should have sex before marriage, then come back and pressurize the pastor to wed you. Why not go to your father and get wedded.

You deceive yourself. You should have said "if every Christian that sins, including you and the pregnant unmarried woman refuse to repent then we should be kicked out of church.

Then go and reword your question.

As you granted yourself the chance of repentance, so does the unmarried pregnant woman deserves a chance of repentance. Not outright banishment or rejection as you suggest.

And who said she does not deserve a chance of repentance? If she is repentant, she wouldn't insist to be wedded in the church when she knows she can wed in court.

We all know that among many churches and Christian gatherings, once a member isn't wedded in a church, they're considered not really married by the church.

That is what you should be up against. You should say " why would churches not consider customary and statutory marriage as valid unless white wedding is done?".

Not shouting, "he must he must wed them". What's your problem?

Spiritual advice can be given outside church wedding.

Some wants to have it that day. How is that bad?

Not quite. A Christian can object to certain cultural practices that runs against his faith. He normally dialogues with the bride's father on such conflict of interests.

I agree.

You're trying to endorse a secular government interference in church spiritual procedures.

Marriage is governed by the land a xten finds himself, not church. What has church procedure got to do with marriage? Did God say church should marry? If the govt of the land states that a particular church can send a minister for such purpose, they can then come in.

"God didn't give any procedure for xten wedding"

GOD has made it clear in several scriptural passages that a bride price be paid and the father of the bride gives his daughter out in marriage.

Never was a priest or pastor called into the procedure.

So where did God order the marriage reception such as the one Jesus attended? Did the church procedure of marrying exclude the fathers bride price? Nor exclude him from handing over the daughter? What are you attacking sef?

fromnigeria:

Thank youmy dear believer. You can see how obvious, it is that OP is a either an Unbeliever a growing christian who is over zealous.


The truth remains that. A true christian, a follower of Christ's teachings (not a church goer), will never go to bed with an opposite sex, for any reason. NEVER!! NEVER!!!

Kudos dear, keep up the faith.

You must be the most holy christian ever since you think a christian doesnt sin.

Ageco:
It's scriptural to deny intending couple church wedding. Sex outside marriage is fornication and fornication is condemned by the Lord. They can have their traditional marriage and start living together. The church can't condone sin. Stop peddling error please

It means your church simply lack the power to pronounce forgiveness for the repentant!
if your church cant welcome the repentant then it has no business to be called a church.

fromnigeria:

Thank youmy dear believer. You can see how obvious, it is that OP is a either an Unbeliever a growing christian who is over zealous.


The truth remains that. A true christian, a follower of Christ's teachings (not a church goer), will never go to bed with an opposite sex, for any reason. NEVER!! NEVER!!!

Kudos dear, keep up the faith.

You must be the most holy christian ever since you think a christian doesnt sin.

sddiamond:

You should know that before one is planning to wed in the church, everything about dowry which is regarded as traditional wedding has been taking care of. Why will some churches prevent one from wedding because of pregnancy. Nonsense

You are right on this but why would the couple wed in the church in the first place? Is there any biblical backing for church wedding? No. If there's not it's either the intending couple abide by the church rules or opt in for registry as it's not a sin.

mikedimeji:
What I have come to understand so far is that many people commenting on this thread do not really understand what the op is all about, many kept capitalizing on the fact that fornication is a SIN which was not disputed by the Op. if we all have the mentality of the sheep and the shepherd we will know that a lot of things we do as Christian is just doctrinal and not biblical and most Christian try to help God in passing judgement, we have seen a churche that suspend a couple for "PDA", someone even said on this thread that as a Christian (Spirit Filled) u can't sin what a great heresie. If God reason the way we all do I'm sure by now the world would have ended. the fact that a pregnancy test comes out positive shouldn't be a ground to cancel a wedding, I see that as helping God to pass judgment. there should be other measure to deal with such people, these are some of the reasons we have one God but Plenty churches with their various Doctrines. Before u quote me try and understand my point before someone will say I'm justifying sin.

It doesn't dispute the fact that the couple are married so why bother about church wedding when the dowry has being paid.What God is interested is the dowry being paid not white wedding as it's based on the scriptures

701ecilana:

Hmmm. Must they wed in church? If wedding in church is nonsense, then don't go there. Everywhere has it's rules, if you have an opposing view, you leave for where agrees with you.

Exactly

sddiamond:

i Neva said church wedding is nonsense, I said some churches, you said everywhere has its rules, what happens to teachings in the bible, they should follow the bible teachings and not this act of discrimination. God is merciful and kind, God is love, God is the head of the church, bible is our guild, anyway na dem business, no be the gullible ones dem fit teach nonsense.

And the Bible teaching doesn't mention white wedding either. If the church decided to adopt it then they must have derived their rules from the scriptures on marriage. If intending couple are not willingly to follow,they should opt out as is not a sin to not to have church wedding but becomes sin if the dowry isn't paid

fromnigeria:

I don't get you.
Are saying I should take heed lest I impregnant my would be fiancee before our marriage?. By the grace of God, that can never ever happen.

NEVER!!!
See I don't have any fear that me and my would be wife will bot be productive, which is the reason u believe practise the act of impregnanting their fiancee before marriage to be sure.
For me, I have no such fear. She and I will be fulruitful and indeed multiply.

This exactly is what I'm pointing out to u, NEVER SAY NEVER. no Christian is self sufficient, our sufficiency is of the Lord. It's only Grace that makes man overcome. People that are stronger in faith have fallen due to one thing or the order it doesn't have to be sexual sin. they keep asking for more grace that's why Paul said those of u that think in ur mind that u are strong (self confidence, standing strong) should take heed less u fall. Mind u it's not actually bad to fall but it becomes bad when u fall and remain there. So NEVER SAY NEVER.

Ubenedictus:
You must be the most holy christian ever since you think a christian doesnt sin.

Pls help me advice him better. This is as a result of erroneous teaching out there. Someone even said the moment u give ur life to Christ heaven becomes automatic irrespective of anything u do along the line, what can I says than to laugh but I was happy everybody disagree with him that day. Some people's Christianity is so mechanical that u ask urself is this how it was done in the days of Christ.

bardiprecious:
the man of God biblically is supposed to join two people in holy matrimony not three,because wen the lady is pregnant she is two she and her unborn child putting on wedding gown standing in front of the alter of God with the man making it 3 people that are being joined....if a lady gets pregnant she should go and give birth after come for marriage blessing.in the church..after all church marriage is not biblical ,the most important thing God is concerned with is the husband to be paying dowry to the father of the girl ,and the father of the girl giving his consent ....any other activities being down after this is our human ceremonies ....be it church or court

Chai!
Man of God supposed to join Biblically?

Can you deliver a Scriptural reference for this?
Can you mention a joining example in the Bible?
Check thoroughly, you'll find none, none.

Church wedding is man's conception. People just chose to spiritualize it.