Peacefullove:



Silly copy and paste , Yeshua is not inferior to Joseph and Mary because they are not his God . he never call them My God , did he ? you can show me where .


Did he call his father My God ? Sometimes you need to use your BRA.in.

one question for you ; IS YOUR GOD SUPERIOR TO YOU ?

duh, u missed Hairy's point, Christ was not inferior to Joseph and Mary because all three are human

I leave out the fact that Christ is also God, u confused enough.

Because Christ called his Father "My God" how does that make Him inferior to Him
Father also called Christ "O God", Father and Son are both God: John 1:1 and many more
if u ask me to post them.

johnw74:


duh, u missed Hairy's point, Christ was not inferior to Joseph and Mary because all three are human

I leave out the fact that Christ is also God, u confused enough.

Because Christ called his Father "My God" how does that make Him inferior to Him
Father also called Christ "O God", Father and Son are both God: John 1:1 and many more
if u ask me to post them.

whenever you are replying me, let your Bra.in work Sir

m talking about been called " MY GOD " . MY God please.




Is Your God superior to you ? answer this .

johnw74:


uh duh, yes He certinally is


And just like Christ’s subjection to Mary and Joseph did not make Him inferior to them because all three were human, so Christ’s subjection to the Father does not make Him inferior to the Father, both being God

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

of course u don't believe the Bible and change it, but bad for u, u will have your reward.

Nice one at bold , You are also God according to the bible but yet your God is superior to you . Same apply to Jesus .

Peacefullove:


whenever you are replying me, let your Bra.in work Sir

m talking about been called " MY GOD " . MY God please.




Is Your God superior to you ? answer this .

false jw plf

duh, u r talking bout "My God", that's what I said

duh, is My God superior to me, He certinally is, that's what I said

talk about letting your Bra.in work, yours is dead it seems
Your confusion comes from rejecting the Truth, and from the devil of course.

John 14:6 Jesus is the only channel to God also, Ephe 4:4-7
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

pressplay411:
Jesus preached that we are all gods.
Where ever did he claim to be God?

He prayed to God before performing any miracles. He told the thief he'd be with him in his father's house. He never ever said he was God, please stop crucifying his legacy.

Jehovahs-witnesses are labeled all sorts but at least the practice only what the Bible teaches, although they tend to go overboard. Their offense is not as grievous as other Christians who mutilate the legacy of Jesus by equating him to God. It's just ludicrous.

Peacefullove:


Nice one at bold , You are also God according to the bible but yet your God is superior to you . Same apply to Jesus .

ha ha, Your brain has definately left the building

u jfl think all people are God


I am not God according to the Bible, you just keep on lying concerning God's word, which is typical of phony jw

u r referring to: Psa 82:6  I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.


it's amazing how such simple things need to be explained to phony jw, and even then u don't understand or believe

The Hebrew word for God in that verse that the English word comes from is "elohim", which is used usually for the one true God, but in this instance it clearly is not, clearly to Christians that is.

elohim means: God, magistrate, judges, people having authority etc.

elohim means God when referring to God

elohim means having authority when referring to people,
people have authority in the world, over animals etc.

If u want to insist we r god's, I have no problem with that,
it just means we have authority, but we are not God.

Truly pfl the verse is not saying people are God

I was surprised the day a JW had confrontation with me about the existence of God the Father,Son and Holy Spirit and i was ask to show them where it is written in the Bible so i quoted and opened 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.TO My surprise there is no such verse inside their own Bible so, one of them exclaimed and shouted that my king jame bible is fake. I avoid them instantly due to unprofitable arguments.Jesus is Lord.
[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=56438911][/quote]

Do they have: Mat 28:19 in their corrupted book

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

In other words, Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of God.

Showing that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost is God.

“Ye are my witnesses, saith Yahweh, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” Isa 43:10 KJV
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Messiah Yeshua;” 1Tim 2:5 KJV

Simple and clear! Stop adding your false imaginations. You are not up for an academy award for the best liar.

xaggar:


You are wrong! Christ kept saying that what he does is not if his own will but the will of He that sent him. Why is it that God had to be the One to ordain the divine order?

God set forth a divine order in relation to the functions in the family. He also set up a divine order in relation to the 3 Persons of the Trinity. The fact that the wife is to submit to the husband does not make her inferior to the husband, its just a divine order to run the family. The fact that Christ submits to the Father does not make Him inferior to the Father it's just the divine order in which God operates to get things done. God is not the author of confusion, He is the author of orderliness.

dammylarey:


I was surprised the day a JW had confrontation with me about the existence of God the Father,Son and Holy Spirit and i was ask to show them where it is written in the Bible so i quoted and opened 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.TO My surprise there is no such verse inside their own Bible so, one of them exclaimed and shouted that my king jame bible is fake. I avoid them instantly due to unprofitable arguments.Jesus is Lord.

Amen!

johnw74:


Do they have: Mat 28:19 in their corrupted book

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

In other words, Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of God.

Showing that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost is God.

That's a powerful attestation. I hope they have it in their books.

xaggar:


“Ye are my witnesses, saith Yahweh, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” Isa 43:10 KJV
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Messiah Yeshua;” 1Tim 2:5 KJV

Simple and clear! Stop adding your false imaginations. You are not up for an academy award for the best liar.

Did you by any chance read my post reposted here at all? If not answer the questions below:

OLAADEGBU:


Let me help you out. Here some pertinent questions and answers for you to ponder on as to the nature of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"You are my witnesses, says the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe  me, and understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me.  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour," (Isaiah 43:10,11).

Is God the Saviour of the world?

If you study this verse I quoted above objectively, you will discover the following:
 
There always has been and always will be only one true God.

There is no Saviour of the world except for this one true God.

Therefore, the Saviour of the world must be the one true God.

This leads to another question:

Is Jesus the Saviour of the world?

I do not think that anyone who has read the New Testament would dispute this.  Even your favourite version of the Bible refers to Jesus as the Saviour: "and of the Saviour of us, Christ Jesus" --Titus 2:13.

Therefore, since:

The one true God is the only Saviour of the world (Isaiah 43:10,11), and

Jesus is the Saviour of the world (Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1),

Jesus must therefore be the one true God.

To deny that Jesus is the one true God, one would either have to deny that Jesus is the Saviour, or say that God is lying to us in Isaiah 43:11.  Neither alternative fits with Scripture.

Does Titus 2:13 teach that Jesus is God our Saviour?

In Titus 2:13 it states the following:

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify to Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Paul is here through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit stating clearly that it is Jesus who is our great God and Saviour unless you are disputing this fact.

xaggar:
“Ye are my witnesses, saith Yahweh, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” Isa 43:10 KJV
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Messiah Yeshua;” 1Tim 2:5 KJV

Simple and clear! Stop adding your false imaginations. You are not up for an academy award for the best liar.

Isa 43:10  Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Yes exactly, there is only one true God, unlike false jw's two god's: mighty god Jesus, and almighty god Jehovah

And the next verse says: 

Isa 43:11  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

^^^ That's Yahovah

vvv and thats concerning Jesus

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. 

You see there, Yahovah is God, Jesus is God, there are many more verses like that, if you don't believe, ask and I will post them also.


For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Messiah Yeshua;” 1Tim 2:5 KJV

Yes the man Messiah Jesus is mediator between God and man,
before becoming man, Jesus is God:

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If you don't believe that Bible verse oh false jw, academy award winner for the sect saying the most lies,
then ask me to post more Bible verses showing that Jesus is God.

Jehovah is identified as the principal Savior, the only Source of deliverance. (Isa 43:11; 45:21) He was the Savior and Deliverer of Israel, time and again. (Ps 106:8, 10, 21; Isa 43:3; 45:15; Jer 14: He saved not only the nation but also individuals who served him. (2Sa 22:1-3) Often his salvation was through men raised up by him as saviors. (Ne 9:27) During the period of the Judges, these special saviors were divinely selected and empowered to deliver Israel from foreign oppression. (Jg 2:16; 3:9, 15) While the judge lived, he served to keep Israel in the right way, and this brought them relief from their enemies. (Jg 2:18) When Jesus was on earth, Jehovah was his Savior, supporting and strengthening him to maintain integrity through his strenuous trials.—Heb 5:7; Ps 28:8.Along with his role as Savior, Jehovah is also the “Repurchaser.” (Isa 49:26; 60:16)

In the past he redeemed his people Israel from captivity. In delivering Christians from sin’s bondage, he does the repurchasing through his Son Jesus Christ (1Jo 4:14), Jehovah’s provision for salvation, who is therefore exalted as “Chief Agent and Savior.” (Ac 5:31) Accordingly, Jesus Christ can rightly be called “our Savior,” even though he performs the salvation as the agent of Jehovah. (Tit 1:4; 2Pe 1:11) The name Jesus, given to God’s Son by angelic direction, means “Jehovah Is Salvation,” for, said the angel, “he will save his people from their sins.” (Mt 1:21; Lu 1:31). This name points out that Jehovah is the Source of salvation, accomplished through Jesus Christ.

“A great crowd” is shown at Revelation 7:9, 10 attributing salvation to God and to the Lamb.
The green highlights is a future occurrence ; yet it is clear that there is a distinction between God and Christ. This answers those who claim that Christ on earth was a man but in heaven he is God Almighty.

The ransom sacrifice is the basis for salvation, and as King and everlasting High Priest, Christ Jesus has the authority and power “to save completely those who are approaching God through him.” (Heb 7:23-25; Re 19:16) He is “a savior of this body,” the congregation of his anointed followers, and also of all who exercise faith in him.—Eph 5:23; 1Jo 4:14; Joh 3:16, 17.

xaggar:

Jehovah is identified as the principal Savior, the only Source of deliverance. (Isa 43:11; 45:21) He was the Savior and Deliverer of Israel, time and again. (Ps 106:8, 10, 21; Isa 43:3; 45:15; Jer 14: He saved not only the nation but also individuals who served him. (2Sa 22:1-3) Often his salvation was through men raised up by him as saviors. (Ne 9:27) During the period of the Judges, these special saviors were divinely selected and empowered to deliver Israel from foreign oppression. (Jg 2:16; 3:9, 15) While the judge lived, he served to keep Israel in the right way, and this brought them relief from their enemies. (Jg 2:18) When Jesus was on earth, Jehovah was his Savior, supporting and strengthening him to maintain integrity through his strenuous trials.—Heb 5:7; Ps 28:8.Along with his role as Savior, Jehovah is also the “Repurchaser.” (Isa 49:26; 60:16)

In the past he redeemed his people Israel from captivity. In delivering Christians from sin’s bondage, he does the repurchasing through his Son Jesus Christ (1Jo 4:14), Jehovah’s provision for salvation, who is therefore exalted as “Chief Agent and Savior.” (Ac 5:31) Accordingly, Jesus Christ can rightly be called “our Savior,” even though he performs the salvation as the agent of Jehovah. (Tit 1:4; 2Pe 1:11) The name Jesus, given to God’s Son by angelic direction, means “Jehovah Is Salvation,” for, said the angel, “he will save his people from their sins.” (Mt 1:21; Lu 1:31). This name points out that Jehovah is the Source of salvation, accomplished through Jesus Christ.

“A great crowd” is shown at Revelation 7:9, 10 attributing salvation to God and to the Lamb.
The green highlights is a future occurrence ; yet it is clear that there is a distinction between God and Christ. This answers those who claim that Christ on earth was a man but in heaven he is God Almighty.

The ransom sacrifice is the basis for salvation, and as King and everlasting High Priest, Christ Jesus has the authority and power “to save completely those who are approaching God through him.” (Heb 7:23-25; Re 19:16) He is “a savior of this body,” the congregation of his anointed followers, and also of all who exercise faith in him.—Eph 5:23; 1Jo 4:14; Joh 3:16, 17.

Yahovah:

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.


Jesus:

Act_4:12  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

^^^ there is Salvation in none other than: Yahovah-Jesus

2Pe_1:11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.




Yes, salvation and Redemption is due to God and the Lamb, to Father and Son,
who of course are two persons, and these two persons are God.
not two god's a mighty god and a almighty god as false jw believe.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.
Mar_12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Joh 20:28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

^^^ I have already heard false jw's ridiculous twisting of that and other verses. 

Isa 7:14  Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel(God with us).

Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

There are many more.

xaggar:

Jehovah is identified as the principal Savior, the only Source of deliverance. (Isa 43:11; 45:21) He was the Savior and Deliverer of Israel, time and again. (Ps 106:8, 10, 21; Isa 43:3; 45:15; Jer 14: He saved not only the nation but also individuals who served him. (2Sa 22:1-3) Often his salvation was through men raised up by him as saviors. (Ne 9:27) During the period of the Judges, these special saviors were divinely selected and empowered to deliver Israel from foreign oppression. (Jg 2:16; 3:9, 15) While the judge lived, he served to keep Israel in the right way, and this brought them relief from their enemies. (Jg 2:18) When Jesus was on earth, Jehovah was his Savior, supporting and strengthening him to maintain integrity through his strenuous trials.—Heb 5:7; Ps 28:8.Along with his role as Savior, Jehovah is also the “Repurchaser.” (Isa 49:26; 60:16)

In the past he redeemed his people Israel from captivity. In delivering Christians from sin’s bondage, he does the repurchasing through his Son Jesus Christ (1Jo 4:14), Jehovah’s provision for salvation, who is therefore exalted as “Chief Agent and Savior.” (Ac 5:31) Accordingly, Jesus Christ can rightly be called “our Savior,” even though he performs the salvation as the agent of Jehovah. (Tit 1:4; 2Pe 1:11) The name Jesus, given to God’s Son by angelic direction, means “Jehovah Is Salvation,” for, said the angel, “he will save his people from their sins.” (Mt 1:21; Lu 1:31). This name points out that Jehovah is the Source of salvation, accomplished through Jesus Christ.

“A great crowd” is shown at Revelation 7:9, 10 attributing salvation to God and to the Lamb.
The green highlights is a future occurrence ; yet it is clear that there is a distinction between God and Christ. This answers those who claim that Christ on earth was a man but in heaven he is God Almighty.

The ransom sacrifice is the basis for salvation, and as King and everlasting High Priest, Christ Jesus has the authority and power “to save completely those who are approaching God through him.” (Heb 7:23-25; Re 19:16) He is “a savior of this body,” the congregation of his anointed followers, and also of all who exercise faith in him.—Eph 5:23; 1Jo 4:14; Joh 3:16, 17.

Interesting. Only if they ll read

Jesus made a very emphatic statement of our dear and close relationship to him and to the Father when he said: "Whoever will do the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister and mother." (Matthew 12:50) "Call no man Father on earth for one is your father: God, and all of you are brothers." (Matthew 23:9) And Paul assures us that "both he who sanctifies (Jesus) and they who are sanctified (the church) are all one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them 'brothers.'" -- Hebrews 2:11.

But how are we to understand the words of Jesus at John 10:27,28: "My sheep hear my voice and I give them eternal life"? While it is Jesus who gives eternal life, Paul tells us that "God [Note that "God" used here has to be unipersonal, not tripersonal] has both raised up the Lord and will also raise up us by his own power." (1 Corinthians 6:14) Both statements are true, because the Father raises the dead through his Son, to whom the Father has given all this power, just as the unipersonal God of Jesus (Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3), by means of Jesus, judges the world. -- Matthew 28:18; John 5:21-30; Isaiah 96:13; 98:9; Acts 17:31.

One last thought on the title "everlasting father." Trinitarians usually deny that Jesus is the Father. Such would make him his own father. Thus they would have us believe that there are three persons in one being called God. However, if this title should be applied to the Son as proof of the trinity doctrine, then Jesus would be the Father, and thus he would be his own Father. Therefore, by their own rules, this title, everlasting father, if applied to Jesus, could not be used to prove the trinity doctrine, for trinitarians usually deny that Jesus is the Father.

Additionally, since the Bible clearly tells us that the Father is the "only" true God, and then excludes Jesus because Jesus was sent by this only true God (John 17:1,3; John 3:16,17), the title "everlasting father" could certainly not be construed to say that Jesus is the Father.
Jesus (Yahshua) is the son of Yahweh, the anointed of Yahweh. He is not Yahweh - the God of Israel. Yawheh -- the God of Israel -- is the God and Father of Jesus. -- Psalm 2:7,8 [John 1:14; Hebrews 1:5];
Psalm 83:18 [Luke 1:32]; [John 5:43];
Isaiah 54:13 [John 6:45];
Matthew 5:48 [Leviticus 11:44; 19:2];
John 8:54 [Exodus 20:5; 23:19; Deuteronomy 4:31; 5:9; 6:4...and a host of other scriptures];
2 Samuel 7:8,11,12,14 [Psalm 132:11;
Isaiah 9:6,7; 23:5; Hebrews 1:5; Luke 1:32]; Deuteronomy 6:4 [John 17:1,3; 1 Corinthians 8:4-6; Acts 2:36];
Psalm 118:26 & Deuteronomy 18:19 [Matthew 21:9; 23:39; Mark 11:9,10; Luke 13:35; 19:38; John 12:13; John 5:4; 12:49,50; 14:10,24; Acts 3:23].

Meaning of Everlasting Father titled to Jesus Christ.[color=#000099][/color]
All the titles of Jesus in Isaiah 9:6 "shall be" given to him by his Father, Yahweh, just as Yahweh gives to the Son the throne of David. (Isaiah 9:7; Luke 1:32) The Psalmist writes prophetically of Messiah: "Instead of your fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth." (Psalm 45:17)

Thus these faithful forefathers of Jesus become his children, whom he appoints as princes in all the earth. (Isaiah 32:1)

The application of this is still future, when the forefathers of Jesus are raised from the dead back here on the earth, who then become "children" to Jesus.

The title of everlasting father in Isaiah 9:6 is not the same title or office of Yahweh as the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. Jesus is never called the Father of the church, the spirit-begotten sons of God, although he does refer to his followers at times as sons (children), that is, as children belonging to God, or to the light of God which was in himself as the image of God, which light was also to be reflected in his followers. -- Matthew 5:14,45; 10:24; Luke 6:35; 16:8; John 8:12; 9:5; 11:9; 12:35,36; 13:33; 2 Corinthians 4:4,6.

His Name Shall Be Called
Insight into the meaning of the "Name" (singular, not names) of the messiah in Isaiah chapter 9:6.

Isaiah 9:5 - For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name (not names) is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom; - Jewish Publication Society translation. (This is Isaiah 9:6 in most translations)

"Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, on the throne of David, and on his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even forever. The zeal of Yahweh of Hosts will perform this. -- World English Bible translation."

As we read it from the Jewish Publication Society's (JPS) rendering, we do not find any designation of Jesus as being "God". The JPS renders it via a transliteration of the "name." Most translations ignore that the verse is speaking a "name" (singular), and change the singular "name" to a series of names, with the evident design to make it appear that Jesus is being referrred to as "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father", so that the idea that Jesus is Yahweh can then be read into this. If one recognizes this, then one can see how this argument is circular, saying, in effect, because we believe that this name is not really a singular name as it says it is, but rather a series of names that are applied to the Messiah, then we believe that since Jesus is called "Mighty God", then Jesus is Yahweh.

Continued...

Usually, a singular name given to a person or thing is not given a translated meaning as a series of names, as has been done in Isaiah 9:6. The general trend is that a “name” such as this given to a human or a thing is describing attributes of God/Yahweh, and by giving such a name to a human or thing is not understood to designate the human or thing as being God/Yahweh.

For example, when Jacob called a certain altar by the name, El-Elohe-Israel (Genesis 33:20), this could also be read as a series of "names", as most do in reading Isaiah 9:5, giving it the meaning: “God, The God, Israel.” Applying the same logic that most apply to Isaiah 9:6, we could then proclaim that this altar is God. In reality, such a "name" is meant to be understood as a sentence speaking of the God of Israel.

Therefore, we should realize that he was not saying that the altar was “God,” or that the altar was “the God,” nor that the altar was Israel, but instead that the name of the altar was meant to say something about Jacob’s (Israel’s) God. Thus, this name is usually given a meaning something like: “God is the God of Israel,” or probably more likely, the first EL should be understood with the general meaning of might, strength, power, etc., thus: “Powerful is the God of Israel.”

So what about Isaiah 9:6? Likewise, the singular name should be understood as a sentence describing the God of Messiah rather than as a series of names that are applied to the Anointed of Yahweh. Some editions of the JPS give this name the following meaning:

“Wonderful in counsel is God the Mighty, the everlasting Father, the Ruler (or Prince) of peace.”

From this perspective, this singular name that is given to Messiah would be describing the only Most High, Yahweh, the Father of Messiah, not the Messiah himself.

Continued...

But let us suppose that the phrase "El Gibbor" (Mighty God) is actually applied to Messiah, rather than to One who makes/anoints the Messiah. Would this mean that Jesus is Yahweh his God, the God who anointed and made him the Christ, the Messiah? (Psalm 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Acts 2:36; 4:27; 10:38; Hebrews 1:9) Absolutely not! First, we should note that this name is not given to the Son of Yahweh until after he has been given by Yahweh to Israel. It has no application to Jesus in a pre-human existence.

In keeping with the rest of the scriptures, the application of the phrase "EL GIBBOR" to the Messiah, usually rendered as "Mighty God", would only mean that the Anointed One is given power and might by the only true God. This usage is demonstrated by the King James Version rendering in the following verses: Genesis 23:6 (mighty);
Genesis 30:8 (mighty);
Genesis 31:29 (power);
Deuteronomy 28:32 (might);
1 Samuel 14:15 (great);
Nehemiah 5:5 (power);
Psalm 8:5 (angels);
Psalm 36:6 (great);
Psalm 82:1 (mighty);
Proverbs 3:27 (power);
Psalm 29:1 (mighty);
Ezekiel 32:21 (strong);
Jonah 3:3 (exceeding).

The expression "Mighty God" (el gibbor) is applicable to Jesus in a similar, but greater sense, as it was applicable to the Babylonish kings spoken of in Ezekiel 32:21, where the same expression in the plural is used. In that verse, the phrase is not translated as "Mighty Gods", but it is usually translated as something like, "The strong among the mighty." (King James Version) Applying a similar rendering to Isaiah 9:6 would give us "strong one among the mighty", or, if it is to be rendered as a separate title, "mighty one of power." Jesus is indeed a mighty one of power, having been given all the plenitude of might bodily that he needs to carry out the purposes of his God and Father. (Colossians 2:9,10) Jesus, since his resurrection, has also become the "everlasting father," "the life-giving spirit," since it is through, by means of, him that the human race is regenerated / made alive. (Matthew 19:28; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22,45) Those regenerated in this age are regenerated by tasting of the powers of the age to come (Hebrews 6:5), receiving the holy spirit as an earnest, a down payment of that which is to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21; 2 Corinthians 5:5; Ephesians 1:14) None of this means that Jesus is his God and Father, the only true God who sent Jesus. -- John 17:1,3; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3.

I rest my case. (Please don't be lazy, take your time and read through. Plus, use your bible for the verses quoted/stated). Our stand and belief on this issue is not flimsy, but based on the truth as guided by God's Holy spirit.

xaggar u r confused, I see u have twisted and changed God's word there as false jw do,
and u keep changing the subject,
but these r the verses I posted:


Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.


Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.




Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.




2Pe_1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel(God with us).

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

xaggar:
His Name Shall Be Called
Insight into the meaning of the "Name" (singular, not names) of the messiah in Isaiah chapter 9:6.

Isaiah 9:5 - For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name (not names) is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom; - Jewish Publication Society translation. (This is Isaiah 9:6 in most translations)

"Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, on the throne of David, and on his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even forever. The zeal of Yahweh of Hosts will perform this. -- World English Bible translation."

As we read it from the Jewish Publication Society's (JPS) rendering, we do not find any designation of Jesus as being "God". The JPS renders it via a transliteration of the "name." Most translations ignore that the verse is speaking a "name" (singular), and change the singular "name" to a series of names, with the evident design to make it appear that Jesus is being referrred to as "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father", so that the idea that Jesus is Yahweh can then be read into this. If one recognizes this, then one can see how this argument is circular, saying, in effect, because we believe that this name is not really a singular name as it says it is, but rather a series of names that are applied to the Messiah, then we believe that since Jesus is called "Mighty God", then Jesus is Yahweh.

so u don't believe the bible and twist and change it, I already know that's what false jw do,
there are many scriptures showing that Yahovah-Jesus is God,
ask and I will post them for u 2 disbelieve and to twist and change.

xaggar:
Continued...

Usually, a singular name given to a person or thing is not given a translated meaning as a series of names, as has been done in Isaiah 9:6. The general trend is that a “name” such as this given to a human or a thing is describing attributes of God/Yahweh, and by giving such a name to a human or thing is not understood to designate the human or thing as being God/Yahweh.

For example, when Jacob called a certain altar by the name, El-Elohe-Israel (Genesis 33:20), this could also be read as a series of "names", as most do in reading Isaiah 9:5, giving it the meaning: “God, The God, Israel.” Applying the same logic that most apply to Isaiah 9:6, we could then proclaim that this altar is God. In reality, such a "name" is meant to be understood as a sentence speaking of the God of Israel.

Therefore, we should realize that he was not saying that the altar was “God,” or that the altar was “the God,” nor that the altar was Israel, but instead that the name of the altar was meant to say something about Jacob’s (Israel’s) God. Thus, this name is usually given a meaning something like: “God is the God of Israel,” or probably more likely, the first EL should be understood with the general meaning of might, strength, power, etc., thus: “Powerful is the God of Israel.”

So what about Isaiah 9:6? Likewise, the singular name should be understood as a sentence describing the God of Messiah rather than as a series of names that are applied to the Anointed of Yahweh. Some editions of the JPS give this name the following meaning:

“Wonderful in counsel is God the Mighty, the everlasting Father, the Ruler (or Prince) of peace.”

From this perspective, this singular name that is given to Messiah would be describing the only Most High, Yahweh, the Father of Messiah, not the Messiah himself.

duh, of course Father God is the Father of Messiah, 2 persons there
and Father and Messiah is God, 1 God there

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Plenty more like that, just ask, and then do your twist on them

xaggar:
Continued...

But let us suppose that the phrase "El Gibbor" (Mighty God) is actually applied to Messiah, rather than to One who makes/anoints the Messiah. Would this mean that Jesus is Yahweh his God, the God who anointed and made him the Christ, the Messiah? (Psalm 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Acts 2:36; 4:27; 10:38; Hebrews 1:9) Absolutely not! First, we should note that this name is not given to the Son of Yahweh until after he has been given by Yahweh to Israel. It has no application to Jesus in a pre-human existence.

In keeping with the rest of the scriptures, the application of the phrase "EL GIBBOR" to the Messiah, usually rendered as "Mighty God", would only mean that the Anointed One is given power and might by the only true God. This usage is demonstrated by the King James Version rendering in the following verses: Genesis 23:6 (mighty);
Genesis 30:8 (mighty);
Genesis 31:29 (power);
Deuteronomy 28:32 (might);
1 Samuel 14:15 (great);
Nehemiah 5:5 (power);
Psalm 8:5 (angels);
Psalm 36:6 (great);
Psalm 82:1 (mighty);
Proverbs 3:27 (power);
Psalm 29:1 (mighty);
Ezekiel 32:21 (strong);
Jonah 3:3 (exceeding).

The expression "Mighty God" (el gibbor) is applicable to Jesus in a similar, but greater sense, as it was applicable to the Babylonish kings spoken of in Ezekiel 32:21, where the same expression in the plural is used. In that verse, the phrase is not translated as "Mighty Gods", but it is usually translated as something like, "The strong among the mighty." (King James Version) Applying a similar rendering to Isaiah 9:6 would give us "strong one among the mighty", or, if it is to be rendered as a separate title, "mighty one of power." Jesus is indeed a mighty one of power, having been given all the plenitude of might bodily that he needs to carry out the purposes of his God and Father. (Colossians 2:9,10) Jesus, since his resurrection, has also become the "everlasting father," "the life-giving spirit," since it is through, by means of, him that the human race is regenerated / made alive. (Matthew 19:28; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22,45) Those regenerated in this age are regenerated by tasting of the powers of the age to come (Hebrews 6:5), receiving the holy spirit as an earnest, a down payment of that which is to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21; 2 Corinthians 5:5; Ephesians 1:14) None of this means that Jesus is his God and Father, the only true God who sent Jesus. -- John 17:1,3; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3.

I rest my case. (Please don't be lazy, take your time and read through. Plus, use your bible for the verses quoted/stated). Our stand and belief on this issue is not flimsy, but based on the truth as guided by God's Holy spirit.

some case
Too much confusion there for me to bother much with, but if u want me to post scriptures showing that mighty God refers to Yahovah as well as Jesus, then just ask.

mighty god jesus and almighty god jehovah are the two false god's of false jw's

But for Christians, mighty God and almighty God are two names-titles for the one true God, two persons for this example, one God.

xaggar:
Continued...

But let us suppose that the phrase "El Gibbor" (Mighty God) is actually applied to Messiah, rather than to One who makes/anoints the Messiah. Would this mean that Jesus is Yahweh his God, the God who anointed and made him the Christ, the Messiah? (Psalm 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Acts 2:36; 4:27; 10:38; Hebrews 1:9) Absolutely not! First, we should note that this name is not given to the Son of Yahweh until after he has been given by Yahweh to Israel. It has no application to Jesus in a pre-human existence.

In keeping with the rest of the scriptures, the application of the phrase "EL GIBBOR" to the Messiah, usually rendered as "Mighty God", would only mean that the Anointed One is given power and might by the only true God. This usage is demonstrated by the King James Version rendering in the following verses: Genesis 23:6 (mighty);
Genesis 30:8 (mighty);
Genesis 31:29 (power);
Deuteronomy 28:32 (might);
1 Samuel 14:15 (great);
Nehemiah 5:5 (power);
Psalm 8:5 (angels);
Psalm 36:6 (great);
Psalm 82:1 (mighty);
Proverbs 3:27 (power);
Psalm 29:1 (mighty);
Ezekiel 32:21 (strong);
Jonah 3:3 (exceeding).

The expression "Mighty God" (el gibbor) is applicable to Jesus in a similar, but greater sense, as it was applicable to the Babylonish kings spoken of in Ezekiel 32:21, where the same expression in the plural is used. In that verse, the phrase is not translated as "Mighty Gods", but it is usually translated as something like, "The strong among the mighty." (King James Version) Applying a similar rendering to Isaiah 9:6 would give us "strong one among the mighty", or, if it is to be rendered as a separate title, "mighty one of power." Jesus is indeed a mighty one of power, having been given all the plenitude of might bodily that he needs to carry out the purposes of his God and Father. (Colossians 2:9,10) Jesus, since his resurrection, has also become the "everlasting father," "the life-giving spirit," since it is through, by means of, him that the human race is regenerated / made alive. (Matthew 19:28; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22,45) Those regenerated in this age are regenerated by tasting of the powers of the age to come (Hebrews 6:5), receiving the holy spirit as an earnest, a down payment of that which is to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21; 2 Corinthians 5:5; Ephesians 1:14) None of this means that Jesus is his God and Father, the only true God who sent Jesus. -- John 17:1,3; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3.

I rest my case. (Please don't be lazy, take your time and read through. Plus, use your bible for the verses quoted/stated). Our stand and belief on this issue is not flimsy, but based on the truth as guided by God's Holy spirit.

The Bible verses are good but your understanding is not,
mighty God is the one God, Yahovah-the Word,
not one of your 2 god's, mighty god Jesus and almighty god jehovah

Yahovah is the mighty God:

Psa_50:1  A Psalm of Asaph. The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Jesus is the mighty God;

Isa_9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.



Yahovah is Lord of Lords, a mighty God, and the Word-Jesus Christ is LORD OF LORDS, the same mighty God who is about to destroy the armys of the World in a yet to come event.

Deu_10:17  For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Rev 19:16  And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

u must read this

Isaiah 9:6, Jesus the Mighty God

"For a child has been born to us, A son has been given to us; And the rulership will rest on his shoulder. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace," (Isaiah 9:6, New World Translation)

The words of Isaiah 9:6 are one of the most powerful prophecies testifying plainly and clearly that the promised Messiah to come would, in fact, be God Himself born in human flesh. The child that is born, the son that is given, is to be called "Mighty God." Jehovah's Witnesses, however, contend that the Messiah is not really called God here, at least not in the sense that biblical Christians mean by this, because He is called mighty God rather than almighty God. They will concede that Jesus is a "god" in the sense of being a very powerful, spiritual being, but He is not Jehovah, the one and only almighty God. This is a very important distinction for Jehovah's Witnesses. It does not, however, hold up very well under scrutiny.

Israel has only one God and is forbidden to call on any other God. Isaiah is abundantly clear:

"'You are My witnesses,' declares the Lord [YHWH, or Jehovah], 'And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me,'" (Isaiah 43:10)

The word for "God" here is the simple Hebrew "el." The most basic word for "god" and the same word used of the Messiah in Isaiah 9:6. If Jesus is the Messiah, He is the "Mighty God" or the "el gibbor," and He is to be called upon as such. But there is no other true, living God besides Jehovah. There is no "el" but He, and His people are surely not to call on a false god for their deliverance. Thus, even standing on its own, Isaiah 9:6 is rather clear that the Mighty God on whom they are to call is Jehovah and not some lesser god that would by definition be a false god since there is only one true God and never will be another. Still, Isaiah didn't stop writing at 9:6. In the very next chapter he says:

"Now in that day the remnant of Israel, and those of the house of Jacob who have escaped, will never again rely on the one who struck them, but will truly rely on the Lord [YHWH, or Jehovah], the Holy One of Israel. A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God," (Isaiah 10:20-21).

Who are they returning to? To the Lord, Jehovah, the one true God of Israel. Here He is plainly called the "mighty God" [el gibbor] in the very same prophetic context as Isaiah 9:6. Indeed, only a chapter apart from it! Jehovah is the Mighty God. The Messiah is the Mighty God. There is only one God. The conclusion here is obvious. And the other prophets concur that Jehovah is the "mighty God." Jeremiah, for example, pronounces:

"who shows loving kindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God [el gibbor]. The Lord [YHWH, or Jehovah] of hosts is His name," (Jeremiah 32:18).

And Zephaniah lauds in similar terms:

"The Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty [gibbor] one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing," (Zephaniah 3:17).

Jehovah is certainly "almighty," but He is also rightly called "mighty" by the prophets. He is the living God. He is the true God. He is the only God upon whom we are to call. He is the only savior. Jesus is the "mighty God" upon whom we are to call. He is our eternal savior. Jesus is Jehovah God.

by Luke Wayne
Isaiah 9:6, Jesus the Mighty God

(Mat 28:19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

(Mat 3:16) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the
water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of
God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
(Mat 3:17) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son,
in whom I am well pleased.

(Gen 1:26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness: ....

(Isa 48:16) Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret
from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord
GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

(1Co 12:4) Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
(1Co 12:5) And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
(1Co 12:6) And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God
which worketh all in all

(2Co 13:14) The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and
the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

^^^ Of course false jw don't know the Holy Ghost and cannot have communion with Him.
they think he is just a thing-a power.

saintmark88 , Longest time

saintmark88:


Let's do it like this.....I have an elder brother, now in terms of authority, he is superior, he can send me on an errand, and as an obedient younger bro, shey I go obey nii??....I can go and tell others my brother sent me, I have to carry this out, or do this as my brother has instructed....I have placed my elder bro as the authority not me, I am only a messenger to his instruction in the case of delegating that task to others myself.

Following this analogy, if u r truthful to urself who is subordinate to the other n terms of authority between me and my brother.....my brother ofcuz. So interms of authority, my brother is greater.

Proving further that Father is greater than Jesus

On the other hand, by nature.....does the fact that he is greater in authority mean he s more of a human being than me??.......God created humans, animals and plant....if am not an animal, not a plant then I'm human likewise him.... There's no greater human being and no less human being by nature....God only gives authority to some over others.

Now if u agree with me on this, same principle applies to d trinity. In terms of authority God the Father is greater than the son and the son is greater than the Holy spirit... but by nature they r all God......no less God no greater God. If u apply my human analogy u shouldn't have a problem wrapping ur head around this.

Thts the reason Jesus says to have seen me is to have seen the Father and I and my Father are one and yet still says the Father is greater than I.

Abeg , Equality is not measured by nature , Only dubious and false doctrines use this kind of means to propagate their false theories.


If Equality is measured by nature, Do you agree that those humans who will be sharers of that same DIVINE NATURE of God, [b] are equal with God ?



How do you arrive at the bold? @ peacefullove , good question

Peacefullove:


the problem with defending trinity is that you have to make alot of assumptions .



firstly , Any reference for the bold ?



secondly, If the son is greater, why did Yeshua said words spoken against him can be forgiven, but words spoken against holyspirit cannot be forgiven ?

Three Gbosa for this post, its that assumption that makes them to dubiously claim equality by nature. Something they will never dare try with their own Father

Good question @ bolded

cc: saintmark88 come and answer the question

JW's Trying To Witness To A Christian.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcFMGKLTI5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvXg1-SdE0s

On October 31 2010 Jehovah's Witnesses Elders lie when asked by Charles Huff, also a Jehovah's Witness, if they shun ex-members of the Jehovah's Witnesses religion. Some elders refuse to answer the question and then threaten to call the police. Charles Huff stood his ground and continued asking them if they shunned ex-members or not, and then rightly called them liars and cowards and affirmed that he would be ashamed also if he shunned ex-members as they do. They lied to the very end of the video!