Akin1212:


Well, since everything is lost in history, I think Jesus himself will have to come and tell us what really happened.

I also believed he married, grew old and died, as against all those BS painted in the bible. But the council of Nicaea no try for the people of the world o.

at Council of Nicaea... Only the Truth can help us out as time unfolds.

As for Jesus growing old and dying somewhere. Let's see if Science has sufficient evidence to back up that assertion.

It's well.

OkaiCorne:


at Council of Nicaea... Only the Truth can help us out as time unfolds.

As for Jesus growing old and dying somewhere. Let's see if Science has sufficient evidence to back up that assertion.

It's well.

Science finds out what's more important than Jesus. We cannot base science on the study of a man who once lived. Maybe anthropology will do that. Progress is being made though, recently they found a writing in Latin where Jesus made the statement "My wife." I believe we are getting there.

Akin1212:


Science finds out what's more important than Jesus. We cannot base science on the study of a man who once lived. Maybe anthropology will do that. Progress is being made though, recently they found a writing in Latin where Jesus made the statement "My wife." I believe we are getting there.

It's well... I'll just sit back and grab a popcorn... and watch how the truth unfolds.

Akin1212:


Seriously, will you be killed if you face the facts? That question is actually for you bro.

A God who already knew that Job served him wholeheartedly needed to prove nothing to Satan, but you wouldn't see that because God may kill you. You wouldn't see that God needed not let someone who serves him suffer that much to prove a point.

I cannot go on discussing this, it's disgusting.

You got to grow up. No wonder you can't be in true xtenity. Got some gaps in ur brain. Seriously.

JMAN05:


You got to grow up. No wonder you can't be in true xtenity. Got some gaps in ur brain. Seriously.

Lol, says someone who believes in unverifiable truths.

I think with my gaps, I am better than you by far. You have not been able to think at all given that you are a Christian.

Hi Akin1212, I stumbled on these audio and video...

Lemme know what you think;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCLGbhuLtKE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3NvRYUot30


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT3bw0ZdnLM

Scientific Evidence or Scam?

Akin1212:


Here we go again, so you think Veterinary doctors are scientists?

Please do me a favor, just continue quoting Graycoder, I have had enough of your lack of knowledge.

But know this, Vet doctors are Doctors that treat animals. They are not scientists that go to the lab for physiological, pharmacological, biochemical and anatomical research. You cannot deny how much you have learned from me.

Carry out thorough research before spewing out half-baked opinions. Medicine is an art and a science. Asides diagnosing and treating diseases, doctors are perfectly capable of carrying out credible scientific research in all of your mentioned fields and even more. Unless you are one, do not make assumptions on their behalf.

OkaiCorne:
Hi Akin1212, I stumbled on these audio and video...

Lemme know what you think;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCLGbhuLtKE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3NvRYUot30


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT3bw0ZdnLM

Scientific Evidence or Scam?

Of course, a big scam. The world is not yet free of Propaganda.


These are Christians trying to prove that Jesus existed, aren't they?

Let atheists who don't want to subscribe to faith come up with verifications, not a propagandist who wants to cry. Did you Notice the narrator in the first video cried? What for?

xharles15:

Carry out thorough research before spewing out half-baked opinions. Medicine is an art and a science. Asides diagnosing and treating diseases, doctors are perfectly capable of carrying out credible scientific research in all of your mentioned fields and even more. Unless you are one, do not make assumptions on their behalf.

I think you are the one who is spewing half baked opinions here.

Have you ever carried out a scientific research?

Can you tell us which level in medical school they teach medical students biostatistics?

Can you tell me if medical students studied paramedical courses deeply or they were just introduced.?

I take it you don't know what you're saying, am I right?

Akin1212:



Of course, a big scam. The world is not yet free of Propaganda.


These are Christians trying to prove that Jesus existed, aren't they?

Let atheists who don't want to subscribe to faith come up with verifications, not a propagandist who wants to cry. Did you Notice the narrator in the first video cried? What for?

One of the videos involved an atheist geneticist.
Or is the atheist also part of the scam?

OkaiCorne:


One of the videos involved an atheist geneticist.
Or is the atheist also part of the scam?

Why do you believe the story? Is it because you're a theist?

It's ridiculous to me, an atheist saying God exists is just like a theist saying God doesn't exist.

Akin1212:


Why do you believe the story? Is it because you're a theist?

It's ridiculous to me, an atheist saying God exists is just like a theist saying God doesn't exist.

Do you have Scientific evidence to counter this?

That is all I ask for. I do not want any bias before arriving at a conclusion.

OkaiCorne:


Do you have Scientific evidence to counter this?

That is all I ask for. I do not want any bias before arriving at a conclusion.

The contents of the videos are anti-scientific in all ramifications, There are tons of scientific explanations against it.

The scientific community has not seen the DNA of Jesus to test for its efficacy. And someone claimed a more than 2000 years old blood still remains there for him to test? After which he cried. Lol

For Jesus to be a man at all, God must have found a way to give him 46 Chromosomes, except if he is a magician which is another fiction.

If Jesus had blood at all, then the blood cells must have had complete 46 chromosomes in their nuclea as blood will not form without a complete set of DNA.

The closer they have gotten is the DNA of John the Baptist from relics., who was said to be Jesus's cousin.

The claim was that Jesus did not die, and if he died nobody knows where he was buried.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/features/the-scientists-who-are-trying-to-find-jesuss-dna-a7681651.html
http://theconversation.com/can-we-ever-find-jesuss-dna-i-met-the-scientists-who-are-trying-to-find-out-72296

It would really be unwise to heed to the crocodile tears of propagandist YouTubers who are really jobless and taking this useless route of trying to work Jesus back into our emotions.

https://www.livescience.com/52567-shroud-of-turin-dna.html

Akin1212:


The contents of the videos are anti-scientific in all ramifications, There are tons of scientific explanations against it.

The scientific community has not seen the DNA of Jesus to test for its efficacy. And someone claimed a more than 2000 years old blood still remains there for him to test? After which he cried. Lol

For Jesus to be a man at all, God must have found a way to give him 46 Chromosomes, except if he is a magician which is another fiction.

If Jesus had blood at all, then the blood cells must have had complete 46 chromosomes in their nuclea as blood will not form without a complete set of DNA.

The closer they have gotten is the DNA of John the Baptist from relics., who was said to be Jesus's cousin.

The claim was that Jesus did not die, and if he died nobody knows where he was buried.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/features/the-scientists-who-are-trying-to-find-jesuss-dna-a7681651.html
http://theconversation.com/can-we-ever-find-jesuss-dna-i-met-the-scientists-who-are-trying-to-find-out-72296

It would really be unwise to heed to the crocodile tears of propagandist YouTubers who are really jobless and taking this useless route of trying to work Jesus back into our emotions.

https://www.livescience.com/52567-shroud-of-turin-dna.html

Double Post...

Akin1212:


The contents of the videos are anti-scientific in all ramifications, There are tons of scientific explanations against it.

The scientific community has not seen the DNA of Jesus to test for its efficacy. And someone claimed a more than 2000 years old blood still remains there for him to test? After which he cried. Lol

For Jesus to be a man at all, God must have found a way to give him 46 Chromosomes, except if he is a magician which is another fiction.

If Jesus had blood at all, then the blood cells must have had complete 46 chromosomes in their nuclea as blood will not form without a complete set of DNA.

The closer they have gotten is the DNA of John the Baptist from relics., who was said to be Jesus's cousin.

The claim was that Jesus did not die, and if he died nobody knows where he was buried.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/features/the-scientists-who-are-trying-to-find-jesuss-dna-a7681651.html
http://theconversation.com/can-we-ever-find-jesuss-dna-i-met-the-scientists-who-are-trying-to-find-out-72296

It would really be unwise to heed to the crocodile tears of propagandist YouTubers who are really jobless and taking this useless route of trying to work Jesus back into our emotions.

https://www.livescience.com/52567-shroud-of-turin-dna.html

DNA test can be done on John the Baptist's blood...but not on Jesus' blood?

Is this what the Science Community is saying?

By the way,

1) If Jesus did not die...maybe he ascended.
2) Wetin concern me with shroud of Turin...e fit be scam na

There's no need to answer this if you feel I'm imposing my belief on you though.
Cheers

OkaiCorne:


DNA test can be done on John the Baptist's blood...but not on Jesus' blood?

Is this what the Science Community is saying?

By the way,

1) If Jesus did not die...maybe he ascended.
2) Wetin concern me with shroud of Turin...e fit be scam na

There's no need to answer this if you feel I'm imposing my belief on you though.
Cheers

The scientific community is saying they found someone traced back to John the Baptist because he was killed and buried. They found his bones.

Jesus either died secretly, disappeared or he never existed. His relics are not and as it is can't be found. There are so many twists about the "Saviour."

He might have ascended, but that's not just the twist to the story, other possibilities exist.

I won't be surprised if he ascended and descended in another location, there were rumours that he visited India and spent 4 years there. He could have learnt LEVITATION, a common practice in Buddhism.

Akin1212:


Lol, says someone who believes in unverifiable truths.

I think with my gaps, I am better than you by far. You have not been able to think at all given that you are a Christian.

You see, you think I was insulting you. The thing is that my words were so simple to understand, but you didn't even understand it and you keep harping on empty point unrelated to the logic. That shows you have a gap in ur brain. You just don't think up. Wonder how I can reason with you further. That was the truth not an insult seriously.

JMAN05:


You see, you think I was insulting you. The thing is that my words were so simple to understand, but you didn't even understand it and you keep harping on empty point unrelated to the logic. That shows you have a gap in ur brain. You just don't think up. Wonder how I can reason with you further. That was the truth not an insult seriously.

You are logical yet you have a belief. Seriously?

If you spend a quarter of the time I spend in thinking and reasoning, your life will be much better. That's what the truth is.

Farewell.

Main thread
I am an atheist and I have asked a ton of Christians and Muslims, the children and slaves of Jehova and Allah these two questions. The wonder is that the first question's answer always raise the second question and they go mute. Answer it if you can but intelligently, but if you are stupid and you like e-war, I'm also at home for you.

1. Why can't God just kill Satan and everything will go back to normal, after all, he created him, so he should know how to kill him.

Sometimes I keep wondering too, why can't the Fed govt just hang Evans. Everyone knows he's a kidnapper, ritual killer etc, but he's still breathing somewhere.
But then, those of us that understand administration will understand why he can't be hanged immediately. He has to be convicted and sentenced to death by the judge, then his judgement is later executed. Rev Kong has been sentenced to death for years now and he's still alive (not sure). The fed govt can decide to hang Evans immediately, and some of us will applaud them. But some of will know theyve broken the law set by them which is injustice.

You'll say well that's Nigeria, does it have to work like that for God? God before creating, made certain decisions. For example, in Psalms 115:16, scripture says "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men". The implication of this decision of God is that he'll need the cooperation of a man to do something on earth.

In the same vein, God has set some rules that guides creation and he will be unjust to break the rules he set. For example, he promised Noah that as long as the earth remained, seed time and harvest will not cease. He will be unjust not to fulfill that promise for any reason as long as this earth remains.

There's something we call the spirit realm. I want to assume you agree that there are spirits. God is spirit. Man is spirit, soul and body. Just as there are laws set in motion by the creator that governs the physical world, there are laws set in motion by God the creator that governs the spirit realm. Whoever obeys the law gets the result, and God will be unjust to break the law he sets.

Let me mention that God is not the only who witnessed Satan's rebellion and he's not the only spirit that is. Only a tyrant will keep breaking the laws set by him just because it pleases him to do so. God is not a tyrant. When a pagan King sacrificed his child during battle, the balance tilted in his direction and the Israelite weren't winning anymore. Because he follows a laid down rule of the spirit realm, he needed to get result even though it's not God's perfect will.

I went through all this route to make a point, which is: God had decided the time and how he'll permanently punish Satan for his rebellion. His present fallen state is as a result of his rebellion. But God had also decided when he'll punish Satan forever, and how he'll do it. One of the rules of the spirit is that spirit don't die once created. So, for God to kill Satan is breaking the rule he created. Death was made a possibility for physical creatures, not spirits.

2. Can God do and undo and is he unquestionable?
If God can do and undo and is unquestionable, then the law can't hold him or question him.
If the law can question him, then he cannot do and undo and he is questionable. It's a simple logic

Based on my earlier explanation, there are certain things God has decided that Cannot, for example
1. Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
2. Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
God CAN do everything, but he WON'T do everything

Now, if God had decided that spirits don't die and he had decided and told us when and how he'll punish Satan, wouldn't it be a lie if he does otherwise just to please himself or us?
I hope these few points are enough to convince you.

Bolaji21:

Sometimes I keep wondering too, why can't the Fed govt just hang Evans. Everyone knows he's a kidnapper, ritual killer etc, but he's still breathing somewhere.
But then, those of us that understand administration will understand why he can't be hanged immediately. He has to be convicted and sentenced to death by the judge, then his judgement is later executed. Rev Kong has been sentenced to death for years now and he's still alive (not sure). The fed govt can decide to hang Evans immediately, and some of us will applaud them. But some of will know theyve broken the law set by them which is injustice.

You'll say well that's Nigeria, does it have to work like that for God? God before creating, made certain decisions. For example, in Psalms 115:16, scripture says "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men". The implication of this decision of God is that he'll need the cooperation of a man to do something on earth.

In the same vein, God has set some rules that guides creation and he will be unjust to break the rules he set. For example, he promised Noah that as long as the earth remained, seed time and harvest will not cease. He will be unjust not to fulfill that promise for any reason as long as this earth remains.

There's something we call the spirit realm. I want to assume you agree that there are spirits. God is spirit. Man is spirit, soul and body. Just as there are laws set in motion by the creator that governs the physical world, there are laws set in motion by God the creator that governs the spirit realm. Whoever obeys the law gets the result, and God will be unjust to break the law he sets.

Let me mention that God is not the only who witnessed Satan's rebellion and he's not the only spirit that is. Only a tyrant will keep breaking the laws set by him just because it pleases him to do so. God is not a tyrant. When a pagan King sacrificed his child during battle, the balance tilted in his direction and the Israelite weren't winning anymore. Because he follows a laid down rule of the spirit realm, he needed to get result even though it's not God's perfect will.

I went through all this route to make a point, which is: God had decided the time and how he'll permanently punish Satan for his rebellion. His present fallen state is as a result of his rebellion. But God had also decided when he'll punish Satan forever, and how he'll do it. One of the rules of the spirit is that spirit don't die once created. So, for God to kill Satan is breaking the rule he created. Death was made a possibility for physical creatures, not spirits.


Based on my earlier explanation, there are certain things God has decided that Cannot, for example
1. Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
2. Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
God CAN do everything, but he WON'T do everything

Now, if God had decided that spirits don't die and he had decided and told us when and how he'll punish Satan, wouldn't it be a lie if he does otherwise just to please himself or us?
I hope these few points are enough to convince you.

You tried but your logic came back crashing on you. Your explanations however raised many more questions which I am going to ask below.


Before I ask my question, I want to raise salient points that foiled your explanation.

- If truly you believe God is a spirit, then you cannot explain spiritual affairs with physical affairs.
- For the sake of discussion, let's now assume to explain spiritual affairs with physical affairs. Evans and Rev King erred and they are both in Jail. Is Satan in jail? I hope you can see where your logic is cancelling itself.

Now to my questions, please ensure you comprehend these questions before attempting them.

1) Before God created Lucifer, did he know or not that Lucifer would rebel?
2) If he knew, why didn't he change the creation to one that will not rebel, like Gabriel or nothing?
3) If he created angels with free will, meaning they can do what they want, even rebel. Do you agree that he played a part in the rebellion?
4) If he didn't know Lucifer would rebel, that means he does not know everything(not omniscient). Do you agree?
5) If he also knew that Lucifer would rebel and still went ahead to create him, what do you think?
6) When Lucifer rebelled, what's the big deal in throwing him into a dungeon and leaving the fucking_ world out of their matter?
7) Why do we have to suffer what we know nothing about, is that fair to you?
You said God is just, do you remember when he decided to kill the firstborns in Egypt, firstborns must have included old men and children and newly born infants, but he struck them all at night and killed them, Is that justice? Again, did you say God is just?
9) If this God follows rule of law, whether set by him or by men, then he is not all-powerful(not omnipotent) because the law cannot hold down powerful men. What do you think?
10) The Bible made us understand that we cannot question God, which basically means he is above the law, whether set by him or us. That he is the Law and he is not subject to it. Is this a lie?
11) If God has set the law and how things work according to his will, then why do pray for him to change some things?
12) If God can kill a witch just because you prayed before the time of the witch comes as being set by God. Do you think he is still following the law?
13) If God cannot be questioned by us then we cannot assume that he is just too because we cannot also blame, why did you assume he is just?
14) If God can do everything but will not do everything, do you agree he is malevolent?
15) Can God be a slave to his own will again?
16) If God cannot lie, how does that help the world?
17) A God that cannot lie, is that a God that can do everything?

I have many more questions, more will follow when these ones are answered

Akin1212:


You tried but your logic came back crashing on you. Your explanations however raised many more questions which I am going to ask below.


Before I ask my question, I want to raise salient points that foiled your explanation.

- If truly you believe God is a spirit, then you cannot explain spiritual affairs with physical affairs.
- For the sake of discussion, let's now assume to explain spiritual affairs with physical affairs. Evans and Rev King erred and they are both in Jail. Is Satan in jail? I hope you can see where your logic is cancelling itself.

Now to my questions, please ensure you comprehend these questions before attempting them.

1) Before God created Lucifer, did he know or not that Lucifer would rebel?
2) If he knew, why didn't he change the creation to one that will not rebel, like Gabriel or nothing?
3) If he created angels with free will, meaning they can do what they want, even rebel. Do you agree that he played a part in the rebellion?
4) If he didn't know Lucifer would rebel, that means he does not know everything(not omniscient). Do you agree?
5) If he also knew that Lucifer would rebel and still went ahead to create him, what do you think?
6) When Lucifer rebelled, what's the big deal in throwing him into a dungeon and leaving the fucking_ world out of their matter?
7) Why do we have to suffer what we know nothing about, is that fair to you?
You said God is just, do you remember when he decided to kill the firstborns in Egypt, firstborns must have included old men and children and newly born infants, but he struck them all at night and killed them, Is that justice? Again, did you say God is just?
9) If this God follows rule of law, whether set by him or by men, then he is not all-powerful(not omnipotent) because the law cannot hold down powerful men. What do you think?
10) The Bible made us understand that we cannot question God, which basically means he is above the law, whether set by him or us. That he is the Law and he is not subject to it. Is this a lie?
11) If God has set the law and how things work according to his will, then why do pray for him to change some things?
12) If God can kill a witch just because you prayed before the time of the witch comes as being set by God. Do you think he is still following the law?
13) If God cannot be questioned by us then we cannot assume that he is just too because we cannot also blame, why did you assume he is just?
14) If God can do everything but will not do everything, do you agree he is malevolent?
15) Can God be a slave to his own will again?
16) If God cannot lie, how does that help the world?
17) A God that cannot lie, is that a God that can do everything?

I have many more questions, more will follow when these ones are answered

See Questionnaire sha...

I hope you get the answers you seek though. It is very good to have a questioning and probing mind instead of swallowing things just the way they are. I used to ask all these too...but the truth of the matter is you cannot get all the answers you seek in this realm of existence.

At the end of the day, it still takes a leap of faith (e.g. Pascal's wager) to believe in the existence or absence thereof of an Eternal Creator.

All the best on your journey.

OkaiCorne:


See Questionnaire sha...

I hope you get the answers you seek though. It is very good to have a questioning and probing mind instead of swallowing things just the way they are. I used to ask all these too...but the truth of the matter is you cannot get all the answers you seek in this realm of existence.

At the end of the day, it still takes a leap of faith (e.g. Pascal's wager) to believe in the existence or absence thereof of an Eternal Creator.

All the best on your journey.

Lol, it's not a journey anymore jor. It's who I am now.

The questions are not much na, I would have asked you if you had tried to answer the way he did, but you brought up eternal creator and dragged it for 2 weeks

I suppose you didn't get all the answers and you decided to be 70% theist and 30% atheist. If it was balanced, I would have said you're agnostic but that's where you're tending to anyway.

Pascal's wager itself is a principle that goes against religion, but then it explains the fear of religious people.

See you in Nirvana

Akin1212:


Lol, it's not a journey anymore jor. It's who I am now.

The questions are not much na, I would have asked you if you had tried to answer the way he did, but you brought up eternal creator and dragged it for 2 weeks

I suppose you didn't get all the answers and you decided to be 70% theist and 30% atheist. If it was balanced, I would have said you're agnostic but that's where you're tending to anyway.

Pascal's wager itself is a principle that goes against religion, but then it explains the fear of religious people.

See you in Nirvana

Lol...17 questions ain't much?

So when you want to start it would be like 40 questions abi?

It's well...He that seeks, shall find. All the best boss.

OkaiCorne:


Lol...17 questions ain't much?

So when you want to start it would be like 40 questions abi?

It's well...He that seeks, shall find. All the best boss.

If he does not give up, he may be the next OkaiCorne. I won't mind dragging this far too with him and I may ask him more than 40 questions

I have found something already, I just want him to find what I found too.

These questions are part of the one million and one questions I started with back in the days.

Cheers

Akin1212:


If he does not give up, he may be the next OkaiCorne. I won't mind dragging this far too with him and I may ask him more than 40 questions

I have found something already, I just want him to find what I found too.

These questions are part of the one million and one questions I started with back in the days.

Cheers

@ at the next OkaiCorne...lemme not derail your discussion with Bolaji21.

Twas a pleasure seeing Energy from a new perspective. Once more, thanks.

Akin1212:


You tried but your logic came back crashing on you. Your explanations however raised many more questions which I am going to ask below.


Before I ask my question, I want to raise salient points that foiled your explanation.

- If truly you believe God is a spirit, then you cannot explain spiritual affairs with physical affairs.
- For the sake of discussion, let's now assume to explain spiritual affairs with physical affairs. Evans and Rev King erred and they are both in Jail. Is Satan in jail? I hope you can see where your logic is cancelling itself.

Most times in order to.explain spiritual matters (kingdom of heaven), Jesus had to use the physical matters as that's the closest thing the audience could relate to.
As regards my example, if you paid attention, you'll notice I mentioned that the present fallen state of Satan is punishment on its own. It's just like a suspect been completed to do community service (sweeping the road) till his judgment is given. Satan was honorable before he rebelled. After his rebellion, all that was left was that "he's roaming to and from the earth".

Also remember I said Satan is not the only one that has rebelled. Another group of rebels were recorded here
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Notice their been held in chains is temporary till the judgment day. Satan's temporary judgment however is that he's stripped of all his honor and left to roam the earth.

1) Before God created Lucifer, did he know or not that Lucifer would rebel?

Yes

2) If he knew, why didn't he change the creation to one that will not rebel, like Gabriel or nothing?

He didn't need to, cos that'll be insecurity. Only humans think that way.

3) If he created angels with free will, meaning they can do what they want, even rebel. Do you agree that he played a part in the rebellion?

No. He gave them free will, not that he influenced their will

4) If he didn't know Lucifer would rebel, that means he does not know everything(not omniscient). Do you agree?

Answer (1) already stated that he knew.

5) If he also knew that Lucifer would rebel and still went ahead to create him, what do you think?

What I think can't be accurate. Why? Because God didn't provide explanation as to why he went ahead to create Satan and it is out of scope to ask him (that's questioning his ability to make right decisions). If he decided to create Satan despite knowing that he'll rebel, he has his reason and he's not obliged to tell us.
God is king. He also knew man will fall and that didn't prevent him from creating man. He knew you'll be anti-social at this time, that didn't stop him from creating you.

6) When Lucifer rebelled, what's the big deal in throwing him into a dungeon and leaving the fucking_ world out of their matter?quote]
You're repeating your questions. The answer is in (1)
[quote]
[7) Why do we have to suffer what we know nothing about, is that fair to you?

All other creatures apart from man will be asking man the same question too. Cos when man fell, the whole creation lost direction. Some became wild animals and started feeding on flesh. Now, if we're to assign blame, it'll go to man because it was man that rebelled. The animals will be asking man the same question.

Now, about suffering: As I said earlier, man rebelled and he (and his descendants) fell under curse. But a remedy has been made available (accepting Jesus). If all men accept Jesus as Lord, the world will be a better place. Some of the sufferings you experience today are as a result of what your great-grandfather did. The sufferings most Nigerians are in today, it's as a result of what past leaders did. Even our current situation, don't we blame it on Buhari, Jonathan etc? Are you affected by the suffering because you were part of their administration? No. But you're a subordinate of theirs, so what they do affects you.

You said God is just, do you remember when he decided to kill the firstborns in Egypt, firstborns must have included old men and children and newly born infants, but he struck them all at night and killed them, Is that justice? Again, did you say God is just?

I said God is just, and been just includes the fact that he judges rightly. People usually use this emotionally appeal to try and paint God as unjust. Does been just mean 'not judging' or does it mean 'judging rightly'?
Just as I said in answer (7), what the leaders do have direct implications on the subordinates. 70+ israalites went to Egypt. Some years later, a king arose and made all the israalites (descendants of those 70) slaves and it lasted for ~400 years. I know you won't say that's just. Now, God decided it's time to set the Israelites free and part of the process is that all first born will die, and you'll say it's unjust. Do you know the number of people and generations of Israelites that suffered and died during the ~400 years of servitude?
If God has suddenly went to Egypt without they doing anything wrong, and he slew all first borns, they we can argue that God is unjust.

9) If this God follows rule of law, whether set by him or by men, then he is not all-powerful(not omnipotent) because the law cannot hold down powerful men. What do you think?

What makes you powerful is not just your power, it's your ability to do what you want to do within the limits of the laid down rules.
What makes a winner in a boxing match is not the a boxer hits his opponent with an hammer, that's cowardice. What makes him victorious and accepted powerful is that he punches (the rule set) his opponent till he gives up.

If your idea of been powerful is to keep breaking the law set by you, then that's tyranny and anarchy is in view.

10) The Bible made us understand that we cannot question God, which basically means he is above the law, whether set by him or us. That he is the Law and he is not subject to it. Is this a lie?,

Sorry, you misunderstood the statement. We cannot question God because we don't know as much as he knows and he's not answerable to us. Not that it makes him a tyrant, but he's king.

However, in scripture, a few men asked Why. An example is job. Job questioned God and claimed he'll sue God to court. God didn't consume him with fire. God agreed to his challenge and to set the ball rolling, he asked him a few questions. Job had no answer to all of the questions (Job 38). Question 1 was "Were you there when I laid the foundations of the earth?". The implication of that question is *you can't question what's happening in the earth now when you weren't there when the earth was been created*. Why? Because a lot of things were put in place and set in motion during the foundation.

As to your last sentence, God is obliged to follow the laws set in motion by him, that's why Jesus didn't drop from heaven as a man, he was born - Because he needs the cooperation of a man (Mary) to access the earth.

11) If God has set the law and how things work according to his will, then why do pray for him to change some things?

When we pray for him to change some things, he does what we ask him to do using another law set by him if he's willing to do it. That's why in a sneering prayers sometimes, he asks us to do somethings for our prayers to be answered.

12) If God can kill a witch just because you prayed before the time of the witch comes as being set by God. Do you think he is still following the law?

The witch knows it's boundary. Let me show your a scripture
Psa 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
Now, an attempt to touch the anointed has consequence, which may be death.the witch is aware of that and Satan the ring leader is aware.
And let me add, he has a right to take life. In fact, he's the only one that has a right to take life cos he's the only one that can give life.

13) If God cannot be questioned by us then we cannot assume that he is just too because we cannot also blame, why did you assume he is just?

You can decide to question God, in fact, that's what atheists spend their life doing - questioning in God.
The reason you're not dead now is because he's just. The whole of history (past, present, future) shows that he's just. Only the wicked will not want to admit that. Refer to my answer on Job.

14) If God can do everything but will not do everything, do you agree he is malevolent?

The essence of creation is so he doesn't have to do everything.
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
He doesn't wish to do others evil, but he has to judge others when they deserve judgment.

15) Can God be a slave to his own will again

I don't quite understand the question. The decides what he wants to do, and he can't be compiled to do otherwise, except he DECIDES to do otherwise.

16) If God cannot lie, how does that help the world?

It means he'll do what he says he will do. It means he can be trusted by his word.
Satan is not like that. Ask those that have had experience with him.

17) A God that cannot lie, is that a God that can do everything?

Let me put it this way. You're a man I assume. If someone says "You're a woman", that'll be a lie, right?
But if God says, you're a woman, it won't be a lie.
Let me give you a scriptural example. Judges 6:11-40.
Gideon was a weak man scared of their enemies. But an angel said to him "Oh man of valor", "go in thy might". If a man had told Gideon this, it'd have been a lie.
But it was God (through his angel) speaking. Why is it not a lie? Because he knew Gideon better than Gideon knew of himself.

I'm not sure how to explain it, but whatever he says is the reality. If he says you're a woman, then you're a woman, even if you've lived all your life as a man.

I have many more questions, more will follow when these ones are answered

Digest this, then go ahead with your questions. Ensure no repetition. Have a nice day.

Bolaji21:

Most times in order to.explain spiritual matters (kingdom of heaven), Jesus had to use the physical matters as that's the closest thing the audience could relate to.
As regards my example, if you paid attention, you'll notice I mentioned that the present fallen state of Satan is punishment on its own. It's just like a suspect been completed to do community service (sweeping the road) till his judgment is given. Satan was honorable before he rebelled. After his rebellion, all that was left was that "he's roaming to and from the earth".

Also remember I said Satan is not the only one that has rebelled. Another group of rebels were recorded here
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Notice their been held in chains is temporary till the judgment day. Satan's temporary judgment however is that he's stripped of all his honor and left to roam the earth.

Then Jesus must have made a grave mistake because you cannot explain the physical situations with spiritual situations. Because nobody can see spirits. Spirits don't exist. And for the sake of discussion, even if they do they are not in this realm and are not guided by physical or natural laws and we are also not guided by spiritual laws. So that there is a very big mistake.

On the Satan's punishment, how can something being punished roam freely? The logic here is zero. If you are being punished, you don't have freedom. But Satan does. I have told you to stop using physical issues to explain this phenomenon because it will not work. Criminals who do community service don't go on their own freedom, they are escorted by security operatives and are always in chains when doing community service. If you liken this to Satan's case, is Satan in chains or escorted by security operatives? I don't think so.

Bolaji21:

Yes

Thank you, you have ultimately agreed that God created Evil. So God himself is an evildoer.

Bolaji21:

He didn't need to, cos that'll be insecurity. Only humans think that way.

So avoiding evil to you means insecurity?

If humans become insecure by avoiding evil, then I think they are wiser than God.

Bolaji21:

No. He gave them free will, not that he influenced their will

What is free will?

When you give someone free will, you have ultimately influenced their freedom to choose.

Bolaji21:

Answer (1) already stated that he knew.

If God created evil and knew that it would be evil before he created it but didn't change the creation because he didn't want to appear insecure. Are you ascertaining me that God planned this world to be in disarray? Then why is he blaming the evil instead of himself who had all the opportunities to make it better but didn't?

Bolaji21:

What I think can't be accurate. Why? Because God didn't provide explanation as to why he went ahead to create Satan and it is out of scope to ask him (that's questioning his ability to make right decisions). If he decided to create Satan despite knowing that he'll rebel, he has his reason and he's not obliged to tell us.
God is king. He also knew man will fall and that didn't prevent him from creating man. He knew you'll be anti-social at this time, that didn't stop him from creating you.

If what you think cannot be accurate, then why bother?
The Bible said in James 4 vs 17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

If God commanded this and does not abide by it himself, then he is not just as you have earlier postulated. You have just mixed his inability to kill Satan with justice. But none of them exist, just to be sure.

The idea of not questioning God is a defensive approach to finding the truth and keep revelling in lies. If there is a God, then reasoning and logic should find him. They said we cannot question God because by doing so we cannot get answers. Some of us have been doing so and if God is really just then he should answer us and tell us why.
Do you know that man is carrying the blame for falling and God is exempting himself according to religion? When God knew what will happen, why did he go ahead and create man? He cannot exempt himself.
[/quote]

Bolaji21:

All other creatures apart from man will be asking man the same question too. Cos when man fell, the whole creation lost direction. Some became wild animals and started feeding on flesh. Now, if we're to assign blame, it'll go to man because it was man that rebelled. The animals will be asking man the same question.

Now, about suffering: As I said earlier, man rebelled and he (and his descendants) fell under curse. But a remedy has been made available (accepting Jesus). If all men accept Jesus as Lord, the world will be a better place. Some of the sufferings you experience today are as a result of what your great-grandfather did. The sufferings most Nigerians are in today, it's as a result of what past leaders did. Even our current situation, don't we blame it on Buhari, Jonathan etc? Are you affected by the suffering because you were part of their administration? No. But you're a subordinate of theirs, so what they do affects you.

The quoted above is illogical reasoning, don't tell me you believe this trash.

The Lion has always been carnivorous. There was no point in time Lion ate grass.
Why would animals change because man(another animal) fell? For starters, according to religion, the man was created in the image of God. So his falling cannot affect other creations that are completely different from man. If man fell and other animals did not, why do they have to lose directions as man? If that's the way it happened, then what justice is there for the other animals. Did you say God is just again?

Before we go deeper, let us verify how the world can be a better place by accepting Jesus. Let us take a look at those who have accepted him already. On a large scale, their lives are far worse than those who have not accepted Jesus Christ.

Just accepting Jesus Christ will not stop earthquakes from happening, many of his followers died in tsunamis. I know many of his followers who are still suffering. So your claim is invalid.

Bolaji21:

I said God is just, and been just includes the fact that he judges rightly. People usually use this emotionally appeal to try and paint God as unjust. Does been just mean 'not judging' or does it mean 'judging rightly'?
Just as I said in answer (7), what the leaders do have direct implications on the subordinates. 70+ israalites went to Egypt. Some years later, a king arose and made all the israalites (descendants of those 70) slaves and it lasted for ~400 years. I know you won't say that's just. Now, God decided it's time to set the Israelites free and part of the process is that all first born will die, and you'll say it's unjust. Do you know the number of people and generations of Israelites that suffered and died during the ~400 years of servitude?
If God has suddenly went to Egypt without they doing anything wrong, and he slew all first borns, they we can argue that God is unjust.

Of course, being just means judging rightly and that's exactly what makes God unjust.

The family of King Pharaoh according to the Bible were the ones who held the children of Isreal in captivity and not the whole of Egypt. There were also poor people in Egypt who couldn't afford a slave. If God were just why didn't he deal with the criminals alone, why count the innocents among and kill them when they have done nothing?

Or a newly born firstborn too have a slave? Do children also have slaves? Come on bro, exercise your thinking faculties and think for once about these things your God has done. The maximum atrocities of your God.

If the children of Isreal had died as a result of slavery in the 400years of captivity, does a child who knew nothing about that have to die? Think think bro. It's unjust, very unjust to kill someone who did not commit a crime. God is unjust.

If God cannot discern the power of choice of the leaders from the choices of their followers, then that God is not a good God. A God that questions followers on choices made by their leaders? Is that the God you worship and claim he is just?

A lawful God will always ensure he judges the sinners and leaves the innocents out. Your logic crashed again.

This below is also an instance of God's tyrany and anarchy

1 Samuel 15:3New International Version (NIV)

3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

Bolaji21:

What makes you powerful is not just your power, it's your ability to do what you want to do within the limits of the laid down rules.
What makes a winner in a boxing match is not the a boxer hits his opponent with an hammer, that's cowardice. What makes him victorious and accepted powerful is that he punches (the rule set) his opponent till he gives up.

If your idea of been powerful is to keep breaking the law set by you, then that's tyranny and anarchy is in view.

Of course, the imaginary God is a tyrant and an anarchist. He has broken these rules many times.

In Isaiah, God said he created good and evil. And this same God said he is good at all times. Can evil come out of good?
God is a tyrant who wants all his will to come to pass no matter what free will you have. So if God's will; is the ultimate then what is the purpose of our own will?

A boxer did not set boxing rules so he has to abide or else he'll be disqualified, God allegedly set the rules and in this your example you compared him to a boxer. How does that correlate to logic? You really need to stop using real-life issues to explain the unreal God. It won't work out.
If you have a power that only functions within the limits of some rules, then you are powerful, but not all-powerful. Not omnipotent.

Bolaji21:


Sorry, you misunderstood the statement. We cannot question God because we don't know as much as he knows and he's not answerable to us. Not that it makes him a tyrant, but he's king.

However, in scripture, a few men asked Why. An example is job. Job questioned God and claimed he'll sue God to court. God didn't consume him with fire. God agreed to his challenge and to set the ball rolling, he asked him a few questions. Job had no answer to all of the questions (Job 38). Question 1 was "Were you there when I laid the foundations of the earth?". The implication of that question is *you can't question what's happening in the earth now when you weren't there when the earth was been created*. Why? Because a lot of things were put in place and set in motion during the foundation.

As to your last sentence, God is obliged to follow the laws set in motion by him, that's why Jesus didn't drop from heaven as a man, he was born - Because he needs the cooperation of a man (Mary) to access the earth.

I did not misunderstand the statement, you did actually. The statement is plain and simple. You cannot question God doesn't mean I can't. Since he answered Job, he should answer those who are questioning him now also.

Someone who cannot be questioned is a tyrant, whether a king or a warrior.

You saw that your words and your explanations are making your God a tyrant and you quickly want to point it out that what you're saying is not true. I know, I know. Keep deceiving yourself.

Job had no answer to the questions that popped up in his mind as against God speaking to him. And that was because science was absent. God should come down and ask such questions again now and he will be shocked how many answers he'll get. Job was just a farmer who knew nothing about the world, how do you expect him to answer.

If God is limited by his own laws and confined within the rules, then he has limits. These things are simple as ABC and do not require much thinking to figure them out. You have stated the points yourself, So I figured God cannot kill Satan because he is limited by his own rules. Thank you.

There would have been no big deal if Jesus had dropped from Heaven, nobody gave birth to Adam and Eve, so?

Bolaji21:

When we pray for him to change some things, he does what we ask him to do using another law set by him if he's willing to do it. That's why in a sneering prayers sometimes, he asks us to do somethings for our prayers to be answered.

I see that you just want to be dancing around laws. If God uses another law to break one law, then he is a very confused and unjust God.

If he is willing to do it? So God's will is the ultimate, why do you need a will then if it's useless?

Bolaji21:

The witch knows it's boundary. Let me show your a scripture
Psa 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
Now, an attempt to touch the anointed has consequence, which may be death.the witch is aware of that and Satan the ring leader is aware.
And let me add, he has a right to take life. In fact, he's the only one that has a right to take life cos he's the only one that can give life.

Let me just laugh this one off, it still the same confusion I have addressed up there

Bolaji21:

You can decide to question God, in fact, that's what atheists spend their life doing - questioning in God.
The reason you're not dead now is because he's just. The whole of history (past, present, future) shows that he's just. Only the wicked will not want to admit that. Refer to my answer on Job.

If theists spend their lives not questioning God, it is fair if atheists spend their lives questioning him. We can't all be gullible at the same time.

I am alive not because God is just, but because I am living well and still healthy. Whether God is just or unjust, if I am not healthy I will die.

If I am alive because he is just, I believe those who are dead died because he is unjust.

Your answer on job does not hold water.

Bolaji21:

The essence of creation is so he doesn't have to do everything.
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
He doesn't wish to do others evil, but he has to judge others when they deserve judgment.

Good, this brings us back to my point made earlier.

If God doesn't wish to do evil, why did he create evil? Afterall, you just claimed he created everything and that includes evil.

Again, if God created all things according to the scripture you quoted, then what do you mean by he doesn't have to do everything? Can't you see that you are antagonizing yourself?

Bolaji21:

I don't quite understand the question. The decides what he wants to do, and he can't be compiled to do otherwise, except he DECIDES to do otherwise.

You have gone contrary to your statements many times and this is another instance. If God can DECIDE to do otherwise anytime he wants, then there is no way he can act according to rules laid by him. You cannot be able to kill and still be unable to kill according to rules.

Bolaji21:

It means he'll do what he says he will do. It means he can be trusted by his word.
Satan is not like that. Ask those that have had experience with him.

God, however, doesn't do what he says he will do. I don't know about Satan because he does not have a book that describes him.

He said if you worship him he will not allow evil befall you. Job worshipped him and he still let evil befall Job. You cannot deny that fact.

Bolaji21:

Let me put it this way. You're a man I assume. If someone says "You're a woman", that'll be a lie, right?
But if God says, you're a woman, it won't be a lie.
Let me give you a scriptural example. Judges 6:11-40.
Gideon was a weak man scared of their enemies. But an angel said to him "Oh man of valor", "go in thy might". If a man had told Gideon this, it'd have been a lie.
But it was God (through his angel) speaking. Why is it not a lie? Because he knew Gideon better than Gideon knew of himself.

I'm not sure how to explain it, but whatever he says is the reality. If he says you're a woman, then you're a woman, even if you've lived all your life as a man.

Lol, this is funny. So the angel gave words of encouragement to Gideon and no other person can do that?

I am not going to address this because it will be very ignorant of me to do so.
You have simply used encouragement as an instance of God not lying. There are many times people have said to me that I can do what I cannot do, and I rose up and did them, are you satisfied?

Akin1212:


Then Jesus must have made a grave mistake because you cannot explain the physical situations with spiritual situations. Because nobody can see spirits. Spirits don't exist. And for the sake of discussion, even if they do they are not in this realm and are not guided by physical or natural laws and we are also not guided by spiritual laws. So that there is a very big mistake.

Since you don't believe that spirits exists, it'll be difficult to discuss with you.

On the Satan's punishment, how can something being punished roam freely? The logic here is zero. If you are being punished, you don't have freedom. But Satan does. I have told you to stop using physical issues to explain this phenomenon because it will not work. Criminals who do community service don't go on their own freedom, they are escorted by security operatives and are always in chains when doing community service. If you liken this to Satan's case, is Satan in chains or escorted by security operatives? I don't think so.

You're reading your thoughts into what I wrote. I stated that part of his (temporal*) punishment was that he was stripped of his honor. His roaming the earth is as a vagabond. In ancient times, people qwerty banished from the land and left to roam the outer lands.

Thank you, you have ultimately agreed that God created Evil. So God himself is an evildoer.

You're tying to so hard to twist things and you're not good at it. God brings evil on people as judgement, that doesn't make him an evildoers by definition.

So avoiding evil to you means insecurity?
It depends on your definition of evil.
If humans become insecure by avoiding evil, then I think they are wiser than God.

If your point is to show the the creature is wiser than the creator, it's your choice.

What is free will?

the ability to make a choice all by yourself.

When you give someone free will, you have ultimately influenced their freedom to choose.

You're so bent on twisting things. If you give someone free will, you've given the ability to make decisions on their own.

If God created evil and knew that it would be evil before he created it but didn't change the creation because he didn't want to appear insecure. Are you ascertaining me that God planned this world to be in disarray? Then why is he blaming the evil instead of himself who had all the opportunities to make it better but didn't?

The world is as it is because of decisions made by men. It's god-haters that make a mess of things and blame God for not stopping them before they did it.

If what you think cannot be accurate, then why bother?
The Bible said in James 4 vs 17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Who defines what is good and what is sin?

If God commanded this and does not abide by it himself, then he is not just as you have earlier postulated. You have just mixed his inability to kill Satan with justice. But none of them exist, just to be sure.

You're arguing from your predetermined standpoint. We're not going anywhere with this. He didn't and won't kill Satan because of the decision he made that spirits don't die, even before Satan rebelled. Since you don't believe that spirits or the spirit world exists, it's of no use.

They said we cannot question God because by doing so we cannot get answers. Some of us have been doing so and if God is really just then he should answer us and tell us why.
Do you know that man is carrying the blame for falling and God is exempting himself according to religion? When God knew what will happen, why did he go ahead and create man? He cannot exempt himself.

I explained what is meant by "you can't question God". Kindly read what I wrote about job. Let me restate that God is not answerable to anyone. He decided if he wants to answer us or not. Stop feeling like you deserve an answer from him, cos you don't. You're a creature of his and a creator is not answerable to the creature. Only the creature is answerable to the creator, that's why he can judge you. Not the other way round.


[quote]
All other creatures apart from man will be asking man the same question too. Cos when man fell, the whole creation lost direction. Some became wild animals and started feeding on flesh. Now, if we're to assign blame, it'll go to man because it was man that rebelled. The animals will be asking man the same question.

Now, about suffering: As I said earlier, man rebelled and he (and his descendants) fell under curse. But a remedy has been made available (accepting Jesus). If all men accept Jesus as Lord, the world will be a better place. Some of the sufferings you experience today are as a result of what your great-grandfather did. The sufferings most Nigerians are in today, it's as a result of what past leaders did. Even our current situation, don't we blame it on Buhari, Jonathan etc? Are you affected by the suffering because you were part of their administration? No. But you're a subordinate of theirs, so what they do affects you.

The quoted above is illogical reasoning, don't tell me you believe this trash.

As I've earlier mentioned, we can't continue this debate as you're arguing from a predetermined position and not open. What a superior does affects the subordinates. I gave the example of nigeria. Kindly go back to read it.

The Lion has always been carnivorous. There was no point in time Lion ate grass.
Why would animals change because man(another animal) fell? For starters, according to religion, the man was created in the image of God. So his falling cannot affect other creations that are completely different from man. If man fell and other animals did not, why do they have to lose directions as man? If that's the way it happened, then what justice is there for the other animals. Did you say God is just again?

You see, you've had the scripture understood upside down and instead of seeking clarity, you're arguing from that standpoint. That's unwise. Man is above other creation by design (Gen 1:28).When he fell, it affected other creation.

Before we go deeper, let us verify how the world can be a better place by accepting Jesus. Let us take a look at those who have accepted him already. On a large scale, their lives are far worse than those who have not accepted Jesus Christ.

We don't need to go too far. Christians life a better life than any other human cos they have the life of God. If you don't know, maybe you've not met a christian.

Just accepting Jesus Christ will not stop earthquakes from happening, many of his followers died in tsunamis. I know many of his followers who are still suffering. So your claim is invalid.

I see you've suddenly become the creator that knows that believing in Jesus can't stop earthquakes. You regulate earthquakes, right?

Hi Akin1212, Trust your day is going on well. Kindly take out time to got through the link below. The link is an article on the biggest mysteries Science is yet to solve.

Look out for the one on WOW signal...lemme know what you think;

https://www.nairaland.com/4178905/world-biggest-mysteries-scientists-still


Cheers.

Bolaji21:

Since you don't believe that spirits exists, it'll be difficult to discuss with you.

Exactly, it will be difficult because I don't go about believing things that don't have empirical evidence unlike you. I prefer to know, I don't believe. Believing could be blind, you know?

Bolaji21:

You're reading your thoughts into what I wrote. I stated that part of his (temporal*) punishment was that he was stripped of his honor. His roaming the earth is as a vagabond. In ancient times, people qwerty banished from the land and left to roam the outer lands.

What am I supposed to read into it? Oh, I am not even supposed to think of what you wrote at all, I am just supposed to accept it because you said it, whether it's logical or not, right? Satan's temporal punishment is to roam and be free to terrorize humanity? Does it make sense to you? Is there no other way to punish him than to unleash him on us? You are still bringing people's analogy into the matter as if it will make sense, If I use the same people's analogy to strike back and show you why it doesn't make sense, you'll start giving excuses.

Bolaji21:

You're tying to so hard to twist things and you're not good at it. God brings evil on people as judgement, that doesn't make him an evildoers by definition.

As a matter of fact, you're the one who is twisting things. Your analogies are weak and irrelevant. God should bring judgement on bad people and leave the innocents out of it. When you punish the innocents for what they didn't do, you're simply an evildoer.

Bolaji21:

If your point is to show the the creature is wiser than the creator, it's your choice.

It's your choice not to believe too, there's no wise creator anywhere.

Bolaji21:

the ability to make a choice all by yourself.

Does the choice you make supersede and transcends God's choice? If NO, then nobody has free will.

Bolaji21:

You're so bent on twisting things. If you give someone free will, you've given the ability to make decisions on their own.

Exactly, you've given them the ability to make decisions ONLY on their own and your own decisions will not matter to them anymore. People under the law does not have free will, nobody has a free will in a society. Who is twisting things now, or is it that you don't simply understand the concept?

Bolaji21:

The world is as it is because of decisions made by men. It's god-haters that make a mess of things and blame God for not stopping them before they did it.

my question is this, did God know that people were going to make a mess before he created them? Who created the people making the mess? If God is perfect, he is not supposed to create people who will make a mess. His creations are really not perfect.

Bolaji21:

Who defines what is good and what is sin?

You tell me, if God is the one who makes the decision, then he is not limited to his own laws as you have said earlier because he makes the decisions.

Bolaji21:

You're arguing from your predetermined standpoint. We're not going anywhere with this. He didn't and won't kill Satan because of the decision he made that spirits don't die, even before Satan rebelled. Since you don't believe that spirits or the spirit world exists, it's of no use.

Come off it brother. I am the free thinker here, you're the one who has a predetermined viewpoint(Christian). Yes, we are not going anywhere until you start accepting facts and stop believing without concrete evidence, and stop giving weak analogies that fall back on you.

Spirits don't die my foot. Have you seen one before? What surprises me is that you type confidently about something you know nothing about, who does that? Have you seen any spirit before? What's the influence of spirits in this world. We are really going nowhere if we are going to include ignorance of facts in our discussion.

Bolaji21:

As I've earlier mentioned, we can't continue this debate as you're arguing from a predetermined position and not open. What a superior does affects the subordinates. I gave the example of nigeria. Kindly go back to read it.

Are you arguing from a general perspective? A free mind perspective or a religious one? So, for you and God now, I am liable for the sins of my Grandfather, the sins I know nothing about? I see why God is God, he is really a Good God that cannot differentiate between innocents and sinners. I really believe that your God is a God that will punish people for sins they are innocent of. Your example of Nigeria does not hold water at all, as a matter of fact, Nigeria is like that because God does not exist.
Besides, if the law now chose to punish a Nigerian leader that is corrupt according to your analogy, does the law punish all his families and his tribesmen or only him? God punished the whole Egypt for the sins of Pharaoh, who does that? A tyrant of course.

Bolaji21:

You see, you've had the scripture understood upside down and instead of seeking clarity, you're arguing from that standpoint. That's unwise. Man is above other creation by design (Gen 1:28).When he fell, it affected other creation.

I'm tired of reading useless replies from you. Sorry to say.

Bolaji21:

We don't need to go too far. Christians life a better life than any other human cos they have the life of God. If you don't know, maybe you've not met a christian.

This is really funny I swear. How do you define a better life? No Christian in Nigeria is richer than Dangote. There are millions of Muslims and Atheists who have a better life than YOU. Abeg, talk reasonable matter.

Bolaji21:

I see you've suddenly become the creator that knows that believing in Jesus can't stop earthquakes. You regulate earthquakes, right?

You can give us an instance where believing in Jesus stopped natural disasters, we will be glad to check it out. I don't need to be a creator before I know some things. It is called common sense and logic.