traeces:


I would probably have shared your belief if not for prophet Muhammad's uncertainty about the eternal destiny of both his own spirit and that of his followers according to S 46:9 "...NOR DO I KNOW WHAT WILL BE DONE WITH ME OR WITH YOU..." So basically, Islam is based upon only his claims and/or inspirations. That I boldly declare is not enough both in law or everyday life as anybody can claim anything. The validity of any claim should be based on evidence not sentiments.
Compare that with Christianity where God began a relationship with the first man Adam before the fall. He found men to yet walk with in Enoch, Job, Noah, Abraham down till Jesus and beyond after the fall. All these men lived in different generations yet bore an agreeable message upon which Christianity is built.
And finally when Jesus stepped into the scene;
It was in fulfilment of several prophecies 1000s of years before he was born.
He had a forerunner in John the baptist who bore testimony about him.
The heaven's declared to the hearing of several people that "this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, hear him".
And finally when he died, he rose again the 3rd day and is seated at the right hand of God the father. This is a historical fact which you assent to every time you write dates say 4th January, 2018. You are simply saying it has been 2018 years since Jesus resurrected.
This is why I believe in Jesus and not any other.

bro if I may ask is Jesus a Christian?

traeces:


Three quick issues;
First, your argument seeks to incriminate God for his divinity which gave God the right to institute order and decide right and wrong. If you a mere creature can decide for yourself right and wrong, why shouldn't God? It is only divine order that sin's wages is death and the same way that all your protest against your teacher did not change anything when he awarded you zero marks for saying 1+0=10 is the same way your protest against God won't amount to anything in the judgement if today you choose death instead of life.

Secondly, God did not send his son to die in order to save you from what he will do to you because of sin. He sent Jesus to die in order to save you from what the devil already did to you when he made your father Adam fall in the garden. He is only a consequence of the fall so it is strange that the devil is not anywhere in your argument.

Thirdly, When you imagine that the sun which is only an average-sized star can 'contain' one million 'earths' and that there are many billions of stars in our galaxy (the milky way galaxy) alone and that their are billions of galaxies containing billions upon billions of stars in the known physical universe alone, you will realize that the creator is not your mate and you are never ever going to be able to fully understand him. What he has revealed however is enough to take us to heaven.

Note, We mere creatures couldnt have been able to differentiate between right and wrong if it wasnt for God..God himself gave us the option, Why put the apple in the garden in the first place? remember his Omnipresence, So if by your logic that means he knows we gonna sin, IF A TEACHER presents a PHD question to a primary 5 student, 101% the student going to fail and the teacher knows it and yet u say the teacher punishing the student is right because the student didnt use his IQ by doing expo.... God gave us an option to follow then why did he say If we dont do diz, I will do diz to u...

The problem with most religious people in Nigeria is ignorance. Pure undiluted ignorance in its raw form. You think there are only two religions in the world? If islam is not the true one, then Christianity must be? Looool! There are over 5000 religions in the world and the adherents of those religions believe their own religion is the true one, and see adherents of other religions as doomed and hell-bound. Even within christianity, there's conflict between the orthodox and pentecostal churches, oh did i mention our good old jehovah's witnesses ... and they all think the other person will end up in hell. Perhaps there are many hells, or y'all are just delusional

Realitycheck007:
Note, We mere creatures couldnt have been able to differentiate between right and wrong if it wasnt for God..God himself gave us the option, Why put the apple in the garden in the first place? remember his Omnipresence, So if by your logic that means he knows we gonna sin, IF A TEACHER presents a PHD question to a primary 5 student, 101% the student going to fail and the teacher knows it and yet u say the teacher punishing the student is right because the student didnt use his IQ by doing expo.... God gave us an option to follow then why did he say If we dont do diz, I will do diz to u...

Even though, I 100% agree that a teacher should not give a student an examination that is beyond the student's capacity, you will also agree that the teacher prepares the syllable or curriculum not the student.
Seriously, how much do you know to know that the 'examination' God gave to Adam was above his capacity? Did the serpent force him? God had given him a will and he exercised his will!
Now if you ask me WHY God did this or did not do that in the sense of questioning God's sovereignty which I wholehearted submit to and that without apologies, I won't be able to provide you and answer but we can carry on any other discussion on the bible.

zainmaxwell:
bro if I may ask is Jesus a Christian?

Christainity means CHRIST(Jesus) LIKE.Therefore he is christainity itself.

Cladez:
Christainity means CHRIST(Jesus) LIKE.Therefore he is christainity itself.

Jesus is a Jew Christianity came after the death of Christ in Antioch wer d people there said d apostles behave like their master who is Christ

mediocre:
The problem with most religious people in Nigeria is ignorance. Pure undiluted ignorance in its raw form. You think there are only two religions in the world? If islam is not the true one, then Christianity must be? Looool! There are over 5000 religions in the world and the adherents of those religions believe their own religion is the true one, and see adherents of other religions as doomed and hell-bound. Even within christianity, there's conflict between the orthodox and pentecostal churches, oh did i mention our good old jehovah's witnesses ... and they all think the other person will end up in hell. Perhaps there are many hells, or y'all are just delusional

In my experience, I have found people who are quick to refer to others as ignorant as the more ignorant.
Now if I wrote about my findings on Islam in explaining why I am not a Muslim to a Muslim, what makes you to think I have not carried out my research on other religions.
It is for instance always a pleasure for me to talk with Jehovah's witnesses as I see holes everywhere in their doctrine. Recently I was busy with work and one Jehovah's witness insisted on sharing with me about the kingdom of God. I asked him a simple question; Are you born again? he did not want to answer that but when I insisted, he said no and I put it to him, why then can you talk to me about the kingdom of God when the bible says "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"? And you could read confusion on his face as he could not provide an answer.
So in addition to resurrection of Jesus, the witness of the bible and the holy spirit in my heart which are sufficient evidences of the truth of Christianity, I have carried out my research on other religions.

zainmaxwell:
bro if I may ask is Jesus a Christian?

The answer to your question is simple; Is water watery? If yes, then Jesus is a christian. If no then you know you have some explaining to do.

traeces:


The answer to your question is simple; Is water watery? If yes, then Jesus is a christian. If no then you know you have some explaining to do.

u did not answer me

'Religion' the opium of the masses,the heart of the heartless and the soul of the souless.@op,I bet you,no pastor/Reverend father that can explained or eloborate constructively on the above topic.They rather called it profane.

traeces:


In my experience, I have found people who are quick to refer to others as ignorant as the more ignorant.
Now if I wrote about my findings on Islam in explaining why I am not a Muslim to a Muslim, what makes you to think I have not carried out my research on other religions.
It is for instance always a pleasure for me to talk with Jehovah's witnesses as I see holes everywhere in their doctrine. Recently I was busy with work and one Jehovah's witness insisted on sharing with me about the kingdom of God. I asked him a simple question; Are you born again? he did not want to answer that but when I insisted, he said no and I put it to him, why then can you talk to me about the kingdom of God when the bible says "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"? And you could read confusion on his face as he could not provide an answer.
So in addition to resurrection of Jesus, the witness of the bible and the holy spirit in my heart which are sufficient evidences of the truth of Christianity, I have carried out my research on other religions.

Oga i did not generalize , i said most. And obviously, i was referring to those two up there bickering

walepackage:
'Religion' the opium of the masses,the heart of the heartless and the soul of the souless.@op,I bet you,no pastor/Reverend father that can explained or eloborate constructively on the above topic.They rather called it profane.

I know you just hurried to make your assertion without taking the time to read the responses. Here is an earlier response:


Three quick issues;
First, your argument seeks to incriminate God for his divinity which gave God the right to institute order and decide right and wrong. If you a mere creature can decide for yourself right and wrong, why shouldn't God? It is only divine order that sin's wages is death and the same way that all your protest against your teacher did not change anything when he awarded you zero marks for saying 1+0=10 is the same way your protest against God won't amount to anything in the judgement if today you choose death instead of life.

Secondly, God did not send his son to die in order to save you from what he will do to you because of sin. He sent Jesus to die in order to save you from what the devil already did to you when he made your father Adam fall in the garden. He is only a consequence of the fall so it is strange that the devil is not anywhere in your argument.

Thirdly, When you imagine that the sun which is only an average-sized star can 'contain' one million 'earths' and that there are many billions of stars in our galaxy (the milky way galaxy) alone and that their are billions of galaxies containing billions upon billions of stars in the known physical universe alone, you will realize that the creator is not your mate and you are never ever going to be able to fully understand him. What he has revealed however is enough to take us to heaven.

@traeces.What you posted wasint explaining the above topic he ask.Pls,without much digressing expantiate and elaborate the 'doctrine of trinity'.I aint talking about 'conscience' here,whic determines what is right or wrong, cos its an inherent factor in all man.Thou,it can be nurtured or murder depending on the circumstance.

SIINXU:



Atheists don't believe that God exists, I do. I just don't subscribe to the "christian" doctrine.

So you believe in One God for all mankind? Reminds me of when I read Archbishop Tutu's "God is not a christian". I was so young then and it scared me, but looking at it now I kind of believe. God loves all and made all mankind

walepackage:
@traeces.What you posted wasint explaining the above topic he ask.Pls,without much digressing expantiate and elaborate the 'doctrine of trinity'.I aint talking about 'conscience' here,whic determines what is right or wrong, cos its an inherent factor in all man.Thou,it can be nurtured or murder depending on the circumstance.

I posted severally on this thread so you may need quote me. About trinity, what we know is 3 God in 1 & 1 in 3. That is how much the human mind can comprehend and you must agree that there is so much even in the physical world that we do not and may never understand.

traeces:

I posted severally on this thread so you may need quote me. About trinity, what we know is 3 God in 1 & 1 in 3. That is how much the human mind can comprehend and you must agree that there is so much even in the physical world that we do not and may never understand.

that is why i said in my earlier post,that some of these 'doctrines' are view as 'profane'as such its difficult to explain and elaborate empirically with verifiable fact.

The trinity in my opinion is best explained using an egg which consists of the shell, the egg white and the yolk. They all have different functions but is still called an egg even when taken apart (shell of an egg or yolk of an egg).

traeces:
So in addition to resurrection of Jesus, the witness of the bible and the holy spirit in my heart which are sufficient evidences of the truth of Christianity, I have carried out my research on other religions.

what are your evidences for resurrection?

hopefulLandlord:

what are your evidences for resurrection?

Neither you or me were born 2000 years ago so we must make do with the testimony of those who were and saw him. His disciples notable amongst whom was Thomas, Acts 1:2-4 the empty tomb, the calendar year are sufficient evidences of the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus.

Arondizuogu:


So you believe in One God for all mankind? Reminds me of when I read Archbishop Tutu's "God is not a christian". I was so young then and it scared me, but looking at it now I kind of believe. God loves all and made all mankind

On point!

Realitycheck007:
Ever heard of trinity sir? if not or so...u wuld know that the argument isnt wrong

Very wrong...Bro if u don't like Christianity you can change to Islam. stop this your befuddled argument, save it for lecture room.

All of u saying Jesus is God are seriously wrong. Pls There is one God and Jesus is he’s son. Pls read Philippians 2:5-12 before u quote me. Even Jesus believes he is not equal to God n has never thought being equal to him and he’s urging us to have that same mental attitude. Pls they are two different entities.

Jesus never preached trinity, he’s disciples never talked or preached about it. The word trinity doesn’t even exist in the holy scriptures.

So you all dey argue abt trinity? Why not pick up a coconut seed or take an egg and see for yasef wt we call TRINITY.





But wait o, its in you, the madness, believe it or not, it doesn't change anything

SIINXU:



If you don't recognize it then why affiliate them to Bible characters? Isn't that another way to plagiarise? Well, I never did think Islam could stand on its own if it doesn't dick-ride Christianity and gain some street-cred by associating itself to it.

Wrong. I'm amazed at how you think you know much about Islam just because of whatever you are able to pick up from the internet. Now, here is a simple lecture, you don't need to pay;
Islam has been right from the the time God created Adam. God sent Issa i.e Jesus down with the Injeel i.e the bible to the people of Nazareth. Then, when the Jews saw the miracles Jesus did and the miraculous way he was born,they started to call him Son of God and some called him god.
Christianity is a spinoff from Islam. Because the bible is the badly corrupted version of the Injeel and the Injeel is a holy book of faith in Islam.
Gabriel is Hebrew and Jubril is Arabic, it's just a simple case of languages difference. Arabic is the recognized language of Islam not Hebrew and that's why I said it's not recognized in Islam but you chose to make it about plagiarism or whatever you say.

You are not agnostic, you are only acting like one because you think it's cool.

traeces:


I would probably have shared your belief if not for prophet Muhammad's uncertainty about the eternal destiny of both his own spirit and that of his followers according to S 46:9 "...NOR DO I KNOW WHAT WILL BE DONE WITH ME OR WITH YOU..." So basically, Islam is based upon only his claims and/or inspirations. That I boldly declare is not enough both in law or everyday life as anybody can claim anything. The validity of any claim should be based on evidence not sentiments.
Compare that with Christianity where God began a relationship with the first man Adam before the fall. He found men to yet walk with in Enoch, Job, Noah, Abraham down till Jesus and beyond after the fall. All these men lived in different generations yet bore an agreeable message upon which Christianity is built.
And finally when Jesus stepped into the scene;
It was in fulfilment of several prophecies 1000s of years before he was born.
He had a forerunner in John the baptist who bore testimony about him.
The heaven's declared to the hearing of several people that "this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, hear him".
And finally when he died, he rose again the 3rd day and is seated at the right hand of God the father. This is a historical fact which you assent to every time you write dates say 4th January, 2018. You are simply saying it has been 2018 years since Jesus resurrected.
This is why I believe in Jesus and not any other.

The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) was a messenger of God not God himself, how do you expect him to know everything? LOL. He wasn't a seer either.

Now, Jesus didn't die on the cross. His soul rose up into the high heavens. Why is crime and everything still rife in the world if Jesus indeed died for the sins of men.
Jesus died for the sins of men, yet this century is the most morally-corrupted one ever. Are people like this because they know Jesus died for their sins and once they accept him as their Lord and savior, they are okay? Is this why a lot of people go to church but still engage in the most vile of activities?

Jesus was persecuted because he preached the gospel to people not because he was sent down to die for the sins of some useless people he doesn't know. If God wanted to forgive us all, he only has to say it. He doesn't have to murder anyone, okay? He isn't a god of drama.

traeces:


Neither you or me were born 2000 years ago so we must make do with the testimony of those who were and saw him. His disciples notable amongst whom was Thomas, Acts 1:2-4 the empty tomb, the calendar year are sufficient evidences of the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus.

Eight "eye-witnesses" say they saw and handled the golden plates that Joseph Smith translated into the Book of Mormon. That history is far more recent than Jesus' four witnesses who (supposedly) wrote it decades after the fact and you also know nothing about them, so using your logic the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints wins on eye-witness numbers and proximity of time. I guess you'll convert to Mormonism now?

Calendar year? hahahaha

Realitycheck007:
Smiles Go and ask. he wouldnt eat u,but becareful he may end up just confusing u all tru the way.. i had a chat with A pastor yesternight, He said alot oh and ended up bringing me to level 0 again, after i ask him a simple question, IF GOD GAVE US THE OPTION of choosing good from evil, Why then punish us for choosing the one that doesnt please him, wereas he is the one that gave us the option

You are confusing yourself, God gave us option but in choosing he laid down the right choice for us, all we have to do is choose the right path. Is like a parent-child relationship, the right and wrong path is before you, choose the right path and you have life.

Now on the topic, let's take this example, we as human have dreams, have you ever wondered which part of you goes about during your sleep hours and do things, and when we wake you remember everything, your body was on the bed but your other self left and got busy!

God created us in his own image, a trinity of some sort, the body, the soul, the spirit! We all know it's only the body that can be killed of this three, but they are all one. But remember the body can't exist without the soul and spirit, even herbalist know this, when they want to hurt someone, they hurt the spirit and the body suffer, but the soul is indestructible.

Mariinee:
The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) was a messenger of God not God himself, how do you expect him to know everything? LOL. He wasn't a seer either.

Now, Jesus didn't die on the cross. His soul rose up into the high heavens. Why is crime and everything still rife in the world if Jesus indeed died for the sins of men.
Jesus died for the sins of men, yet this century is the most morally-corrupted one ever. Are people like this because they know Jesus died for their sins and once they accept him as their Lord and savior, they are okay? Is this why a lot of people go to church but still engage in the most vile of activities?

Jesus was persecuted because he preached the gospel to people not because he was sent down to die for the sins of some useless people he doesn't know. If God wanted to forgive us all, he only has to say it. He doesn't have to murder anyone, okay? He isn't a god of drama.

The last paragraph is wrong, God words have already said it, WITHOUT THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD, THERE IS NO REMISSION OF SIN.

In time past they use ram, goat but he sent his son to die once for all. Why would he do that, because it is only what is clean that can wash dirt, no man is capable of doing that, as far as he was conceived of a man and woman.

Now about your other point, sin have always being in existence, but the difference now is, it can be documented, traced. Take for an example, if a man sleeps with another man's wife in those days before the digital age, there was no to tell who the child belonged to, and if they keep it a secret nobody knows, everyone keep living. Another example, if you see a young man and woman having sex, all you can do is look, and even if you tell anyone, you may not be believed, nothing to document and broadcast such act. Anything done anywhere in the world can be communicated with ease in seconds to everyone and you begin to hear and know about these atrocities. So my point is things didn't get worse, we just have a better way of reminding ourselves of the worse things.

sparko1:


You are confusing yourself, God gave us option but in choosing he laid down the right choice for us, all we have to do is choose the right path. Is like a parent-child relationship, the right and wrong path is before you, choose the right path and you have life.

Now on the topic, let's take this example, we as human have dreams, have you ever wondered which part of you goes about during your sleep hours and do things, and when we wake you remember everything, your body was on the bed but your other self left and got busy!

God created us in his own image, a trinity of some sort, the body, the soul, the spirit! We all know it's only the body that can be killed of this three, but they are all one. But remember the body can't exist without the soul and spirit, even herbalist know this, when they want to hurt someone, they hurt the spirit and the body suffer, but the soul is indestructible.

how does an omniscient, omnipotent creator give options?

hopefulLandlord:


how does an omniscient, omnipotent creator give options?

I think you mean WHY DID HE GIVE OPTIONS?

And the answer is because we were created like him, not like angels, we were created and given the opportunity to be gods. Like I said, look at the parent-child relationship, the child has all the gene and attributes of the parent.

Realitycheck007:
Note, We mere creatures couldnt have been able to differentiate between right and wrong if it wasnt for God..God himself gave us the option, Why put the apple in the garden in the first place? remember his Omnipresence, So if by your logic that means he knows we gonna sin, IF A TEACHER presents a PHD question to a primary 5 student, 101% the student going to fail and the teacher knows it and yet u say the teacher punishing the student is right because the student didnt use his IQ by doing expo.... God gave us an option to follow then why did he say If we dont do diz, I will do diz to u...

Look at what you said yourself, he placed the apple in the garden but told them not to eat it, this is completely different from what our teachers do, the put the wrong option there without telling us the right one, and we are asked to choose.

What you want to say is if he already knows why not just remove the apple. What you don't know is, evil already exist so there is no removing the apple, good and evil exist simultaneously, so there comes a choice.

There is nothing like a big test, he said eat all the other apples but don't eat this one alone! Come on, how hard can that be? Take a look from the military, they are so restricted that you will wonder how is it possible to live like this, but it is possible.

Mariinee:
Wrong. I'm amazed at how you think you know much about Islam just because of whatever you are able to pick up from the internet. Now, here is a simple lecture, you don't need to pay;
Islam has been right from the the time God created Adam. God sent Issa i.e Jesus down with the Injeel i.e the bible to the people of Nazareth. Then, when the Jews saw the miracles Jesus did and the miraculous way he was born,they started to call him Son of God and some called him god.
Christianity is a spinoff from Islam. Because the bible is the badly corrupted version of the Injeel and the Injeel is a holy book of faith in Islam.
Gabriel is Hebrew and Jubril is Arabic, it's just a simple case of languages difference. Arabic is the recognized language of Islam not Hebrew and that's why I said it's not recognized in Islam but you chose to make it about plagiarism or whatever you say.

You are not agnostic, you are only acting like one because you think it's cool.

Lola, I stopped reading where you pointed out that Jesus descended from heaven with the Bible - a book which is supposedly a compilation of scrolls written and picked up one after the other long after Jesus allegedly died. Who fills ya'll up with all this nonsense? As far as records go, Christianity is several millennias older than Islam so how exactly is it a spin-off of Islam?


Let me pitch a better version to your story: Mohammad seeked to gain his own followership after uniting all the old gods under the auspice of "Islam" and because he knew that at that time, Christianity had already gained prominence, he decided to align his newly invented religion with one that had already existed but this time, he presented his own superior to the former.

Let's look at it this way; I decide to delve into the noodles market and instead of uniquely producing and packing my product, I move to rip off Indomie by first imitating their pack design, then I pick similar colours, then I pick similar flavours, I even style my seasoning sachet like theirs! Then in a desperate bid to hide the fact that my product is a cheap rip-off of Indomie, rather than give it a similar name to Indomie Noodles, I name mine Chikki Chicken Noodles but that doesn't change anything, my product is still obviously a cheap rip-off.


That's exactly what Islam is.



Modified: I'm glad to know you think that being Agnostic is cool, means we're making progress here.