solite3:
no doubt Mary gave birth to a son who was both man and God but she is not the mother of God.
A woman can only be the mother of what originates from her fact.
God didn't originate from Mary but only Christ humanity originates from mary.
so how is Mary the mother of God?
still waiting for your proof

I am grateful to you for being intellectually honest up to the point of accepting and agreeing
that Mary gave birth to a Son who was both man and God
I undertstand you hesitate and/or you're unwilling to accept Mary being called the mother of God
You even raised a question, by asking:"... so how is Mary the mother of God?"

Well, why dont you, in an inexhaustible way, say what is meant by the word "mother"?

solite3:
Is David not the father of Mary?

In the real sense, no, David is not the father of Mary.
Is your great, great, great, great, grandfather your children's father?
Your children came from his seed, but you are their daddy, not your great, great, great, great, grandfather

solite3:
how did you come about this your assumption?

Its not assumption
and you would have easily come about this knowledge from biology class 101

solite3:
the word became flesh
did God change from being the uncreated, eternal, without having father or mother God?

The word became flesh, yes, that is true
but solite3, I am not talking of Logos right now, have you or anyone ever physically seen rhema?, (i.e. spoken word)
Ordinary human spoken words you are yet to have seen, talkless rhema

Yes, God did change from being the uncreated, eternal, without having father or mother God
God, became a Father, the very moment, Mary gave birth to Him, and has His Son

solite3:
did God stop being a spirit?

No, God did not stop being a spirit
Why should God stop being a spirit?
What does God have to stop being a spirit for?

solite, let's unravel this together,
Now give a honest reply to these 2 below:
Is it possible or impossible for God to be in two places at the same time?
Is it possible or impossible for God to be simultaneously and concurrently in heaven Spirit mode by default and on earth in the flesh?

solite3:
how can Mary be a mother of what didn't originate from her?

In the simplest terms, because she gave birth to God incarnate

solite3:
Did the apostles teach this?

Yes, because the apostles knew and said, Jesus is God

solite3:
for what?
Mary giving birth to Christ was just a favor from God.
hope your know what favor is?
she was not qualified, not because she was holy or righteous.

There is an air of envy towards Mary in your comment
I think you really will do fine with some or if not all same favour from God, Mary had

Well, according to you, Mary was not qualified, not because she was holy or righteous
but this I know, Mary had the humility, to accept what was proposed to her

solite3:
so you are willing to ignore all the scriptural proof?
not surprised.

You were whistling in the wind with those verses

solite3:
and if we trace that chromosome down are you sure it is not the chromosome of david.

I guess you were an Art student

solite3:
Jesus referred to himself as the offspring of david. Remember.
even the apostle Paul called Jesus son of david.

If I may ask you, in what context did Jesus referred to Himself as the offspring of David
and in what context did Paul called Jesus son of David?
Who were the audience(s)?

solite3:
nobody can be mother or father of God, unless it is not literally.

Literally or not literally, at least you're warming to the idea of someone, apart from Mary, called the mother of Jesus, who happens to be God incarnate

solite3:
calling Mary mother of God means nothing because she is not the mother of God
just an invented name to what the Bible does not teach.

Calling Mary mother of God means a lot because she is the mother of Jesus, who happens to be God incarnate

The bible numerous times, teaches and shows Mary as mother of Jesus, who happens to be God incarnate

You're trying to split hair over calling Mary mother of God

blueAgent:


God forbid don't pray for me you need it most, keep fooling yourself.

I have prayed and will continue to pray for you.

UbiPetrus:
I have prayed and will continue to pray for you.

You have no heard that the prayer that God answers must be made in the name of Jesus and not Mary.

blueAgent:


You have no heard that the prayer that God answers must be made in the name of Jesus and not Mary.

No Catholic prays in the name of Mary.
I know you are very ignorant.

MuttleyLaff:
I am grateful to you for being intellectually honest up to the point of accepting and agreeing
that Mary gave birth to a Son who was both man and God
I undertstand you hesitate and/or you're unwilling to accept Mary being called the mother of God
You even raised a question, by asking:"... so how is Mary the mother of God?

Well, why dont you, in an inexhaustible way, say what is meant by the word "mother"?

A mother is the female from whom a child originates.
answer this question, if the egg of a woman A was fertilized in her and then transfered to another woman B who carried the child and birthed the child.
who is the mother of that child?

In the real sense, no, David is not the father of Mary.
Is your great, great, great, great, grandfather your children's father?
Your children came from his seed, but you are their daddy, not your great, great, great, great, grandfather

whether great grand father or grand father they are still your father but on different level.
if Mary is from the seed of mary does that not make David father of mary?

Its not assumption
and you would have easily come about this knowledge from biology class 101

speaking about biology, you know God did not follow the natural law in the case of Christ birth, so how did you come to the conclusion that an x chromosome was taken from mary.
we only knew the word became flesh.

The word became flesh, yes, that is true
but solite3, I am not talking of Logos right now, have you or anyone ever physically seen rhema?, (i.e. spoken word)
Ordinary human spoken words you are yet to have seen, talkless rhema

The word of God is a person rhema is not a person. I don't see the correlation with topic at hand.

Yes, God did change from being the uncreated, eternal, without having father or mother God
God, became a Father, the very moment, Mary gave birth to Him, and has His Son

you are wrong, God cannot change
God never changed he is still the way he is.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.




Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.




[quote ]No, God did not stop being a spirit
Why should God stop being a spirit?
What does God have to stop being a spirit for?[/quote] do you agree that Jesus divine nature is separate from his human nature or they are mixed?

solite, let's unravel this together,
Now give a honest reply to these 2 below:
Is it possible or impossible for God to be in two places at the same time?
Is it possible or impossible for God to be simultaneously and concurrently in heaven Spirit mode by default and on earth in the flesh?[\quote] God is omniscient meaning he is and can be everywhere and anywhere.

[quote]In the simplest terms, because she gave birth to God incarnate[quote] that is why she is the mother of Jesus not God.

[quote]Yes, because the apostles knew and said, Jesus is God

kindly point it out from the bible.

There is an air of envy towards Mary in your comment
I think you really will do fine with some or if not all same favour from God, Mary had

envy mary the mother of my Lord, Mr mutty however mary is not the mother of God.
I would rather follow Mary's example by pointing people to Christ than herself. if mary was alive today she would weep for what people have turned her to.

Well, according to you, Mary was not qualified, not because she was holy or righteous
but this I know, Mary had the humility, to accept what was proposed to her[\quote] hold on there mary herself said it.
Mary never merited by humility hence it is no more favour! do you merit grace my mutty?

[quote]You were whistling in the wind with those verses

I guess you were an Art student[quote] whistling you said, but, if you had listened to the whistling you would have gotten the melody.
permit me, I know enough of biology to know who is the father or mother of a child.

[quote]If I may ask you, in what context did Jesus referred to Himself as the offspring of David
and in what context did Paul called Jesus son of David?
Who were the audience(s)?

now you are seeking for context? offspring means the one that continues Davidic lineage and Paul said Jesus is the son of David according to the flesh not title.
remember that God promise to raise a son for David from his loins, his own seed. tell me did God fulfill this promise? who is this seed?

Literally or not literally, at least you're warming to the idea of someone, apart from Mary, called the mother of Jesus, who happens to be God incarnate

Calling Mary mother of God means a lot because she is the mother of Jesus, who happens to be God incarnate

The bible numerous times, teaches and shows Mary as mother of Jesus, who happens to be God incarnate

You're trying to split hair over calling Mary mother of God

why are you splitting hairs trying to disprove facts?
and yet uptil now you have not showed me a single verse that teaches that mary is the mother of God

UbiPetrus:
No Catholic prays in the name of Mary. I know you are very ignorant.

Really?

solite3:
A mother is the female from whom a child originates.
answer this question, if the egg of a woman A was fertilized in her and then transfered to another woman B who carried the child and birthed the child.
who is the mother of that child?

Both are mothers of the child
Woman A, who provided the egg that was fertilized in her, is the natural mother
Woman B, who carried the child in the womb and birthed the child, is the surrogate mother

solite3:
whether great grand father or grand father they are still your father but on different level.
if Mary is from the seed of Mary does that not make David father of Mary?

No, it does not make David, father of Mary
because it isnt David's name that's going to be written on Mary's birth certificate

solite3:
speaking about biology, you know God did not follow the natural law in the case of Christ birth

I know God, to some extent, followed the natural law, in the case of Christ birth
For example, Christ, at least, was born naturally
I also know we serve a miracle working God

solite3:
so how did you come to the conclusion that an x chromosome was taken from Mary

Mary, just like how other females do, would have had an XX pair of sex chromosomes.
When the Y chromosome combined with one of the Xs in Mary's XX chromosomes to make a boy (XY), she had a Son.

solite3:
we only knew the word became flesh

Yes, that's true.
The Word, supernaturally and naturally became flesh

solite3:
The word of God is a person, rhema is not a person.

I knew suggested rhema is a person
I merely asked, that, have you ever physically seen rhema or has anyone else ever physically seen rhema? (i.e. spoken word)
If you havent seen rhema (i.e. spoken word), what chance do you think you have in seeing Logos?

solite3:
I don't see the correlation with topic at hand

"the word became flesh
did God change from being the uncreated, eternal, without having father or mother God?"
- solite3 ©

My comment there had nothing to do with the topic
but more to do with responding to your comment reproduced in the above inverted commas

solite3:
You are wrong, God cannot change
God never changed he is still the way he is.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

You are talking and writing this way because you have a parti pris approach to theology
Since you want to talk about "God cannot change. God never changed he is still the way he is", let me ask you a few simple questions

1/ Do you see any change in the nature of God in Jesus?
>>>
The nature of God doesnt change
Have you got it now?

2/ Do you know what that Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" means & the context it was used in?
>>>
It is talking about the unchanging nature of Jesus, the immutability of Jesus Christ, as it is
so Jesus, all the way, it is. No need for another change in another

3/ Do you know what Malachi 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I change not..." is about and actually saying
>>>
It is saying, you're lucky, I do not go back on My promises, that's why you are not destroyed
God is staying to His nature. God doesnt in that respect change

solite3:
do you agree that Jesus divine nature is separate from his human nature or they are mixed?

I agree that Jesus' divine nature is separate from His human nature

solite3:
kindly point it out from the bible

What are you asking me to kindly point it out from the bible?

solite3:
envy mary the mother of my Lord, Mr mutty however Mary is not the mother of God.
I would rather follow Mary's example by pointing people to Christ than herself.
If Mary was alive today she would weep for what people have turned her to.

Yes, I agree.
She will weep for people like you.

solite3:
now you are seeking for context?
offspring means the one that continues Davidic lineage
and Paul said Jesus is the son of David according to the flesh not title.
remember that God promise to raise a son for David from his loins, his own seed.
tell me did God fulfill this promise? who is this seed?

"And I will cause hostility between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring.
He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel."
- Genesis 3:15

"And I will put enmity Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."
- Genesis 3:15

I am not going to drag this with you,
and that's why I am only going to drop Genesis 3:15 up there,
just to show you that, it isnt today yansh has been at the rear end.
Genesis 3:15 doesnt need explaining.

It, all the way back, from the very beginning, started with Eve (i.e. Eve, the original woman)
The journey of God coming to earth in human form started with the first Woman (i.e. Eve)
This through the passage of time, extended to Abraham then to David before actually having cause to happen in Mary

Remember, Jesus using Woman, to call Mary, His mother
and I once typed, it was Jesus talking to the Eve in Mary when He called her Woman,
but budaatum flew off the handle at that then comment I made
https://www.nairaland.com/4636184/mary-not-mother-god/13#71348868

solite3:
why are you splitting hairs trying to disprove facts?

and yet uptil now you have not showed me a single verse that teaches that Mary is the mother of God

"you have not been following my posts,
I never argued that Mary is not the mother of God but on what level.
is it as God or as a man." sic
- solite3(m): 7:18am On Sep 27 ©

Can you now see from your comment reproduced above, how you're bent on splitting hair?
Also I have more than once shown bible references that teaches that Mary is the mother of God

solite3, since you've accepted and agreed that Mary is the mother of Jesus (i.e. is the mother of Christ)
will showing you, with scripture, that, this same Jesus, is God,
and then, by deductive reasoning, makes Mary be the mother of God, appeal to you?

MuttleyLaff:


Remember, Jesus using Woman, to call Mary, His mother
and I once typed, it was Jesus talking to the Eve in Mary when He called her Woman,
but budaatum flew off the handle at that then comment I made
https://www.nairaland.com/4636184/mary-not-mother-god/13#71348868

And you never provided any evidence nor reason for making that assertion, and now you state it as if you had and its true!?

budaatum:

And you never provided any evidence nor reason for making that assertion, and now you state it as if you had and its true!?

You made a request by saying:
"If I have wrongly accused you of pie in the skying,
I would gladly be corrected.
But please to the point, and without rambling, just so my tiny head can get around it."
and that is exactly what I did,
kept it short and simple to the point without any rambling

MuttleyLaff:
You made a request by saying:
If I have wrongly accused you of pie in the skying, I would gladly be corrected.
But please to the point, and without rambling, just so my tiny head can get around it.
and that is exactly what I did, kept it short and simple

asked you how you came to that conclusion and your response was to accuse me of inviting you to argue!

budaatum:
asked you how you came to that conclusion and your response was to accuse me of inviting you to argue!

²²Peter took Jesus aside and told him to stop talking like that.
He said, “God would never let this happen to you, Lord!”
²³Jesus turned to Peter and said,
“Satan, get away from me!
You're in my way because you think like everyone else and not like God.”
- Matthew 16:22-23

---

---

"³²Then Jesus explained clearly what He meant.
Peter took Jesus aside and told Him to stop talking like that.
³³But when Jesus turned and saw the disciples,
He corrected Peter.
He said to him,
“Satan, get away from me!
You are thinking like everyone else and not like God.”"
- Mark 8:32-33

I gave you the above "Your KISS wish is my command" response. Didn't I?
You're smart now,
you can see from Mark 8:32-33 how I came to the conclusion without me rambling or spelling anything out

MosesAlex:


Now if really want to know the why He used "Woman".
Woman represents her role. if you have a mother who is a warrior! You may chose to call her by more exalted title "Warrior"

Genesis 2:23 Adam called Eve Woman. (The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man). Jesus even has same reason to call Mary so, because atleast His biological make up was from her alone (unlike those who have a biological father and mother. Jesus only had a biological mother ).

Genesis 3:15 prophesied about another Woman[b]

Rev 12: 1 talks about the Woman clothed in the Sun.[/b]

When Jesus calls her Woman, He is referring to her office.

If my brother is a soldier, I may chose to call him Soldier. It is his mission, it would spur him, that is who he is .

Woman is an exalted title.

Let it be far from you to think Jesus was disrespectful. You know it was God who gave the fourth commandment. Trust me no one fulfilled that law more than Jesus. "Honour your Father and Mother".

Who is the woman is revelation 12 you are talking about ?
I would love to hear your view on these..

Ubenedictus:
when Mary gave birth to Jesus did she give birth to a flesh alone Jesus or the whole Jesus spirit, body, soul and divinity?

FUNNY enough this was never answered

Ubenedictus:




OK, since you believe in separating the natures in Jesus let me ask you this,


When you adore Jesus do you adore his divine nature alone, since is human nature is different and can't be adored?

Or so you worship the whole Christ?

this should have ended the hypostatic union issue but again this wasnt answered

Ubenedictus:
no you didn't bother to quote the church fathers you just lied about what they taught and when you were caught you denied knowing who they were



I still have this questions for you




so you will agree that God took flesh in Mary's womb, Mary carried God in human flesh for nine months, Mary gave birth to God in human flesh and nurtured him?

But you won't agree that Mary is the mother of God?


If you don't agree with the earlier phrases please tell me the ones you agree with and the ones you disagree with.

WHICH OF THESE PHRASES DO YOU AGREE WITH

Glycolysis:

Who is the woman is revelation 12 you are talking about ?
I would love to hear your view on these..

Hi Glycolysis (Interesting name )

Please a thread created for that below.

https://www.nairaland.com/4768555/woman-clothed-sun-moon-under#71765817

MuttleyLaff:
Both are mothers of the child
Woman A, who provided the egg that was fertilized in her, is the natural mother
Woman B, who carried the child in the womb and birthed the child, is the surrogate mother

surrogate mother is just a title not the real mother. There are different ways of motherhood including adoption.
same way there are different ways of fatherhood including adoption.
going by your logic Joseph should also be the father of God since he his the foster father of Jesus.
the surrogate mother gives birth to the child that is not her own.

you denied that David is the father of Christ even though Christ came through his seed but here you are saying surrogate mother when the child is not the seed of the surrogate mother.

the one who has the seed becomes the father or mother of that child.

No, it does not make David, father of Mary
because it isnt David's name that's going to be written on Mary's birth certificate.

Jesus been the seed of David does not make David the father of christ?
this must be a joke.

I know God, to some extent, followed the natural law, in the case of Christ birth
For example, Christ, at least, was born naturally
I also know we serve a miracle working God

Mary, just like how other females do, would have had an XX pair of sex chromosomes.
When the Y chromosome combined with one of the Xs in Mary's XX chromosomes to make a boy (XY), she had a Son.

you are still making unverifiable assumption.
if you still believe the bible pls show me where God took xx chromosome from mary.

Yes, that's true.
The Word, supernaturally and naturally became flesh

what do you mean by supernaturally became flesh.

I knew suggested rhema is a person
I merely asked, that, have you ever physically seen rhema or has anyone else ever physically seen rhema? (i.e. spoken word)
If you havent seen rhema (i.e. spoken word), what chance do you think you have in seeing Logos?

rhema is not a person the logos is a person who have manifested to various people in the old testament

"the word became flesh
did God change from being the uncreated, eternal, without having father or mother God?"

So when Jesus became a man that means God has now become a created been.
do you know what hypo static union is?
it states that the divine nature and the human nature where united without losing its characteristics.
it means God still remained God (the uncreated, eternal one without having father and mother)
which totally agree with the bible that God does not change.

My comment there had nothing to do with the topic
but more to do with responding to your comment reproduced in the above inverted commas

You are talking and writing this way because you have a parti pris approach to theology
Since you want to talk about "God cannot change. God never changed he is still the way he is", let me ask you a few simple questions

1/ Do you see any change in the nature of God in Jesus?
>>>
The nature of God doesnt change
Have you got it now?

2/ Do you know what that Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" means & the context it was used in?
>>>
It is talking about the unchanging nature of Jesus, the immutability of Jesus Christ, as it is
so Jesus, all the way, it is. No need for another change in another

3/ Do you know what Malachi 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I change not..." is about and actually saying
>>>
It is saying, you're lucky, I do not go back on My promises, that's why you are not destroyed
God is staying to His nature. God doesnt in that respect change.

if you agree that God's nature didn't change, yes that sums it up, take note that God's nature the characters that make God what he his. this includes the fact that he has no father or mother like humans does.
Mal 3vs 5 and Heb 3 vs 8 are all in agreement of God's unchangeable nature, what he is 500000000000 years ago is what he is now and what he would be forever. hence he is called I am not I was!

I agree that Jesus' divine nature is separate from His human nature

good so it is possible to attribute something to the humanity of christ and not to his divine nature. we are heading somwhere.

What are you asking me to kindly point it out from the bible?

Yes, I agree.
She will weep for people like you.

OK if cannot do so.
she will weep for people making her center of attention instead of christ, attributing to her a title she never gave to herself nor the apostles gave to her.

"And I will cause hostility between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring.
He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel."
- Genesis 3:15

"And I will put enmity Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."
- Genesis 3:15

I am not going to drag this with you,
and that's why I am only going to drop Genesis 3:15 up there,
just to show you that, it isnt today yansh has been at the rear end.
Genesis 3:15 doesnt need explaining.

It, all the way back, from the very beginning, started with Eve (i.e. Eve, the original woman)
The journey of God coming to earth in human form started with the first Woman (i.e. Eve)
This through the passage of time, extended to Abraham then to David before actually having cause to happen in Mary

I don't see how this correlate with the topic at hand.

Remember, Jesus using Woman, to call Mary, His mother
and I once typed, it was Jesus talking to the Eve in Mary when He called her Woman,
but budaatum flew off the handle at that then comment I made
https://www.nairaland.com/4636184/mary-not-mother-god/13#71348868

"you have not been following my posts,
I never argued that Mary is not the mother of God but on what level.
is it as God or as a man." sic
- solite3(m): 7:18am On Sep 27 ©

abeg delete this comment! just a friendly advice
I don't even know how to address it.

Can you now see from your comment reproduced above, how you're bent on splitting hair?
Also I have more than once shown bible references that teaches that Mary is the mother of God

solite3, since you've accepted and agreed that Mary is the mother of Jesus (i.e. is the mother of Christ)
will showing you, with scripture, that, this same Jesus, is God,
and then, by deductive reasoning, makes Mary be the mother of God, appeal to you?

you have showed nothing ( blunt truth).
you can't apply deductive reasoning here.
like you said both natures are separate, Mary being mother of christ us not the same as mother of God.

Ubenedictus:
FUNNY enough this was never answered

there is no question there.
a woman can carry a child that is not her own, thank God modern science has proven this.
Mary gave birth christ body, soul and spirit but that is not the issue but she is not the mother of God.

Ubenedictus:
this should have ended the hypostatic union issue but again this wasnt answered

you are using deductive reasoning here which does not work. do you believe that the two natures are separate?

Ubenedictus:
WHICH OF THESE PHRASES DO YOU AGREE WITH

Mary carried the God-man doesn't make her the mother of God.
the issue is not whether Mary carried christ or not but whether God is son of mary.

solite3:
there is no question there.
a woman can carry a child that is not her own, thank God modern science has proven this.
Mary gave birth christ body, soul and spirit but that is not the issue but she is not the mother of God.

after running around in self deception and falsehood, at least you've admitted that Mary gave birth to Jesus ;body, soul, and spirit(God).

so Mary gave birth to God.

that confers on her the title of theotokos(God-bearer) since, in truth which you've also admitted in the bolded, she bore God.

Gggg102:


after running around in self deception and falsehood, at least you've admitted that Mary gave birth to Jesus ;body, soul, and spirit(God).

so Mary gave birth to God.

that confers on her the title of theotokos(God-bearer) since, in truth which you've also admitted in the bolded, she bore God.

Mary bore christ is not the issue God used her as a vessel but she is not the mother of God.
will you also say that Joseph is the father of God since Joseph took care of Jesus?
many people played different role in the physical life of Jesus does that confer on them special titles?
Mary was a vessel through which Christ came into the world.

solite3:
Mary bore christ is not the issue God used her as a vessel but she is not the mother of God.
will you also say that Joseph is the father of God since Joseph took care of Jesus?
many people played different role in the physical life of Jesus does that confer on them special titles?
Mary was a vessel through which Christ came into the world.

this wordplay won't change anything.

Mary bearing Christ is the reason why the title 'God bearer' was given to her.
now that you've agreed to this after denying it throughout the thread, everything other thing can fall in place.


Mary giving birth to God is why she is called 'mother of God' since she bore God.


Mary is a vessel through which God came into the world, and also the mother of God since God came into the world through her. this is exactly my first post in this thread.

Joseph is the foster father of God.

Gggg102:


this wordplay won't change anything.

Mary bearing Christ is the reason why the title 'God bearer' was given to her.
now that you've agreed to this after denying it throughout the thread, everything other thing can fall in place.


Mary giving birth to God is why she is called 'mother of God' since she bore God.


Mary is a vessel through which God came into the world, and also the mother of God since God came into the world through her. this is exactly my first post in this thread.

Joseph is the foster father of God.

It's been said over and over again that the title "Mother of God" does not mean that God has His origin in Mary. But that He who was born of the virgin was true God and true man.
In other words, there was never a time that Jesus stopped being God. Not even at the time of the incarnation. Jesus was, is and always will be Lord and God. This explains why Elizabeth called Mary "the Mother of my LORD" even though the child Jesus had not been born at the time.

To come into the World, God chose to come through a human being, a woman.
He didn't choose to appear and disappear.
He chose to be born, nurtured and catered to by a woman. This woman - His creature, His handmaid, His mother. The woman - Mary.

Isn't it amazing how many of us loose our common senses whenever Mary is mentioned?

#Maryphobia.

And I must add, Joseph is the FOSTER FATHER of God.
We are not afraid to admit that, Solite and co.
And for your sake, I want to believe you know who a foster father is.

Gggg102:


this wordplay won't change anything.

Mary bearing Christ is the reason why the title 'God bearer' was given to her.
now that you've agreed to this after denying it throughout the thread, everything other thing can fall in place.


Mary giving birth to God is why she is called 'mother of God' since she bore God.


Mary is a vessel through which God came into the world, and also the mother of God since God came into the world through her. this is exactly my first post in this thread.

Joseph is the foster father of God.

bearing Christ is different from being the mother of God.

show me where I denied that Mary bear christ?

no Mary is not mother of God because Jesus was born through her.

wordplay?

solite3:
there is no question there.
a woman can carry a child that is not her own, thank God modern science has proven this.
Mary gave birth christ body, soul and spirit but that is not the issue but she is not the mother of God.

She brought forth the son body, spirit and soul, what about his DIVINITY? abi he didnt come out of mary's womb with his divinity?

a woman can carry a baby that is not hers but she will still be called the surrogate MOTHER, she still is a mother albeit in surugacy. but mary wasn't a surrogate mum, the bible says she both concieved and bore her son who is GOD with us.

the question is did mary concieve, bore and birth a son who had body, soul, spirit and a pre-existing eternal divinity?

Mary the mother of Jesus is different from Mary the mother of God.
how?
1. such is not taught in the bible ( it is an heresy)


2. if we go by the logic that Mary is the mother of God, it will automatically make God the son of david.

Jesus asked the Jews who taught The Messiah was?


Matthew 22:42
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.

Matthew 22:45
If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?


this question Christ raised objected their taught of David been the father of the Messiah.



but in other parts of the bible Jesus affirm to be the offspring of Jesus.

Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


How could this be possible?
Jesus is not the son of David and also the son of david.

except that David was the father of Jesus humanity because he is David's seed.

Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;





but not his father divinely.


so, it is only true to say that
David is the ancestor of Jesus in the flesh not of God.

Mary is the mother of Jesus in the flesh not of God.



Problems with "Mother of God"
As you can see from the above quotes, Mary is highly exalted. Along with her exaltation is the implication that Mary has better access to Jesus because she is his mother and Jesus will listen to his mother. I've heard countless Roman Catholics tell me this. Add to this the error that no one goes to Christ but through Mary (Pope Leo 13th), and it should be clear that Mary is being idolized beyond what is appropriate. That is why Roman Catholicism advocates praying to Mary (CCC 2679). This is a problem because this leads to people putting their focus, hope, and prayers in Mary instead of Jesus. This is heresy. It is idolatry.
An additional problem is found when we compare Mary in relation to God the Trinity (the teaching that there are three persons in the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). When the Catholic Church says that Mary is the "mother of God" there is the possibility of implying that Mary is the mother of the Trinity . Since this is not logically possible, the Catholics would have to understand the term in a different sense. They would, of course, say that Mary is only the mother of the second person of the Trinity, the Word. But they don't clarify this very often. Instead, they continually use the phrase "mother of God" and leave it open that somehow Mary has a special relationship to God Himself by being the mother of Christ. Again, this is dangerous since it encourages people to take their eyes off of Christ, putting on to the creature: Mary.
God is the preeminent one, the most important and praiseworthy being in the universe. God has no "mother." He is the creator of all things. Motherhood, on the other hand, is a biological function (as it is used in the context of Mary in Roman Catholicism), not one dealing with the nature and essence of God as it relates to a human being who is a mother. But, God has no mother. There is nothing and there is no one before Him, equal to Him, or comparable to Him. We must guard his glory and not give it to another.
Finally, the term "mother of God" runs the risk of suggesting that Mary is somehow divine and part of the Godhead. So far, the Roman Catholic Church does not teach this, but there is a movement within Catholic adherents to exalt Mary to the level of divinity. The Roman Catholic Church, so far, has rightly denounced this proposal, but it does not mean that later on there might be a movement that succeeds in elevating her to divinity or semi-divinity. After all, consider the above references that exalt her far beyond what the Scriptures teach. If the Roman Catholic Church can go beyond what is written in Scripture ( 1 Corinthians 4:6 ) in disregard to it, who is to say that it won't eventually elevate her to the status equal to a goddess?


Mary mother of God is as good as saying Mary is the mother of man.

again the term mother of God was used because of some who believed Jesus was not God, but


Christokos which is more specific should be more appropriate than theotokos.
since Mary is not really the mother of God.

solite3:
you are using deductive reasoning here which does not work. do you believe that the two natures are separate?

I didnt do any reasoning, i asked a simple question, since you separate the natures, do u worship the divinity alone or the whole Jesus?

as for your question, the hypostatic union means the two natures CAN'T be separated, they are united in one person called Jesus. the moment you separate the two natures the you cant worship Jesus, u will worship the divinity and avoid his humanity which means you have created 2 jesuses.

i will ask you since you claim to believe in the hypostatic union, read up the council of ephesus and see what it means, what you are teaching is nestorianism which means u dont believe in the hypostatic union.

solite3:
Mary carried the God-man doesn't make her the mother of God.
the issue is not whether Mary carried christ or not but whether God is son of mary.

DID she also give birth to the God-man and nurtured him?

solite3:



bearing Christ is different from being the mother of God.

show me where I denied that Mary bear christ?

no Mary is not mother of God because Jesus was born through her.

wordplay?

CHRIST IS GOD, Mary carried GOD in her womb, she bore God in flesh AKA THEOTOKUS.

Ubenedictus:
She brought forth the son body, spirit and soul, what about his DIVINITY? abi he didnt come out of mary's womb with his divinity?

a woman can carry a baby that is not hers but she will still be called the surrogate MOTHER, she still is a mother albeit in surugacy. but mary wasn't a surrogate mum, the bible says she both concieved and bore her son who is GOD with us.

the question is did mary concieve, bore and birth a son who had body, soul, spirit and a pre-existing eternal divinity?

can a son exist before his mother? if the son existed before the mother it means he is not really the son of the woman.
This is so simple! Jesus is both man and God correct
Mary is the mother of Jesus correct
Mary is the mother of God incorrect
why?
the origin of Jesus humanity is from Mary but his divinity has no origin.


Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

your logic seems to be, if Mary gave birth to Jesus who is both God and man then mary is the mother of God.

to show you this reasoning is wrong!

John 8:57
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


The news followed your reasoning if Jesus was less than fifty it would have mean Abraham pre- existed christ.
yes Abraham pre-existing christ in the flesh but in Spirit as God he was existing before Abraham.


Jesus was aware of his pre-existence of Abraham.

so Jesus clearly separate his divinity from his humanity by that statement.

Jesus also challenge the Jews who called him the son of David, again separating his his heavenly sonship from his earthly sonship something the rcc would have called heresy.

hence mary is the mother of christ in the flesh not of God.

Ubenedictus:
I didnt do any reasoning, i asked a simple question, since you separate the natures, do u worship the divinity alone or the whole Jesus?

as for your question, the hypostatic union means the two natures CAN'T be separated, they are united in one person called Jesus. the moment you separate the two natures the you cant worship Jesus, u will worship the divinity and avoid his humanity which means you have created 2 jesuses.

i will ask you since you claim to believe in the hypostatic union, read up the council of ephesus and see what it means, what you are teaching is nestorianism which means u dont believe in the hypostatic union.

my dear hypostatic union doesn't mean they not separate, when I mean separate, it means different characters. one had an origin the other does not have.

you will agree that Jesus humanity has its origin from mary's womb making her mother of Jesus in flesh only but his divinity pre-existing mary making Jesus mary's God.
do you see the separation?
the two nature's being one doesn't mean they are not different.