₦airaland Forum

Dhu-al-Khalasah

Among those idols, too, was dhu-al-Khalasah. It was a carved niece of white quartz with something in the form of a crown upon its head. It stood in Tahalah, between Mecca and San'a, at a distance of seven nights' journey from Mecca. Its custody was in the hands of the banu-Umamah of the Bahilah ihn-A'sur. The Khath'am, the Bajilah, and the Azd of al-Sarah, as well as those Arab sub-tribes of the Hawazin who lived in their vicinity and those Arabs residing in Tabalah, were wont to venerate it and come to it with sacrifice.

A certain man said:

"O dhu-al-Khalasah, wert the one wronged,
Thy father the one murdered and buried,
Thou wouldst not have forbidden the killing of the
enemy."

This he said when his father was murdered, and he sought to avenge him. He, therefore, went to dhu-al-Khalasah and shuffled the divination arrows, but they resulted in a negative message forbidding him to seek revenge. Thereupon he said those verses. Some people, however, ascribe the incident to Imru'-al Qays ibn-Hujr al-Kindi.

Khidash ibn-Zuhayr al-'Amiri refers to dhu-al-Khalasah in verses which he addressed to 'Ath'ath ibn-Wahshi al-Khatli'ami concerning a covenant contracted between them hut violated by the latter. He said:

"I reminded him of the covenant that existed between us twain,
And of the age-long friendship which both of us shared;

That our witness was God and the White Quartz Idol of Tabalah,
And the oath of al-Nu'man when he embraced the faith of Christ."

When the Apostle of God captured Mecca and the Arabs embraced Islam, among the delegates who came to pay their homage was Jarir ibn-'Abdullah. He came to the Apostle and embraced Islam before him. Thereupon the Apostle addressed him saying, "O Jarir! Wilt thou not rid me of dhu-al-Khalasah?" Jarir replied, "Yea." So the Apostle dispatched him to destroy it. He set out until he got to the banu-Abmas of the Bajilah [tribe] and with them he proceeded to dhu-al-Khalasah. There he was met by the Khath'am and the Bahilah, who resisted him and attempted to defend dhu-al-Khalasah. He, therefore, fought them and killed a hundred men of the Bahilah, its custodians, and many of the Khath'am; while of the banu-Qubafah ibn-'Amir ibn-Khath'am he killed two hundred. having defeated them and forced them into flight, he demolished the building which stood over dhu-al-Khalasah and set it on fire. A certain woman of the banu-Khath'am thereupon said:

"The banu-Umamah, each wielding his spear,
Were slaughtered at al-Wahyab, their abode;
They came to defend their shrine, only to find
Lions with brandished swords clamoring for blood.
The women of the Khath'am were, then, humiliated
By the men of the Abmas, and abased."
At the present time dhu-al-Khalassah constitutes the threshold of the gate of the mosque at Tabalab.

We have been told that the Apostle of God once said, "This world shall not pass away until the buttocks of the women of Daws wiggle [again] around dhu-al-Khalasah and they worship it as they were wont to do [before Islam]."

Twerking has been around a long time.

Yoruba ties to Arabia, if any, would have been pre-Islamic and suffered the fate narrated here.

PREFACE
Abu-al-Mundhir Hisham ibn-Muhammad ibn-al-Sa'ib ibn-Bishr al-Kalbi, better known as ibn-al-Kalbi (d. A.H. 206/ A.D. 821-822)[1], was a member of a distinguished family of scholars residing in al-Kufah, then one of the two intellectual capitals of the Muslim world. Like his father, abu-al-Nadr Muhammad[2], he addressed himself almost exclusively to historical and philosophical research in an age where the hadith was the science par excellence. Not only Muslim interest in the life and usage of the Prophet, but also the desire of official Islam to stamp out all that belonged to the pagan days of Arabia, discouraged learned men from the pursuit of studies which related to the so-called Jahiliyah days. According to the traditionists who were then in full control of the intellectual life of the community, Muhammad once said, "Islam destroys all that preceded it[3]". The Prophet, undoubtedly, had in mind the pagan religious of his country; but his followers, in their zeal to establish the new faith, set out to eradicate everything which had its roots in the old order. Consequently, the historians (akhbariyun), whose work was to record the past and preserve its glories, were without honor in the Muslim community, particularly during the early period of Islam.

The great Arab historians flourished during a later period. These, too, placed their emphasis on the Muslim era, and treated the pre-Islamic days in a cursory manner. What is more, the word historian (akhbari) acquired a bad meaning and became an epithet of near-contempt. It was applied to ibn-al-Kalbi[4] as well as to any learned man who dared dwell upon Arab history before the 'Am al-Fil[5].' But no historian was attacked more virulently than ibn-al-Kalbi, probably because he addressed himself to the study of those things which Islam was determined to obliterate, namely the pagan religions and practices of Arabia. Thus al-Baghdadi[6] preserves a saying current among the students of the hadith concerning ibn-al-Kalbi's alleged lack of veracity. To them he was but an amateur genealogist and a story-teller whose word no one would either accept or quote. Al-Isfahani, too, despite his dependence upon ibn-al-Kalbi, attacks him in at least two places[7], and asserts that everything which he had quoted in his authority was false. Al-Sam'ani is still more outspoken. In his Ansab[8] he dismisses ibn-al-Kalbi with the following sentence, "He ... used to relate odd and strange things, and events none of which had any foundation." Another Muslim writer who disparages ibn-al-Kalbi is al-Dhahabi. Besides calling him a rafidi[9], he says,
ix


"He was not reliable ... but merely an historian (akhbari)[10]". Ahmad ibn-Hanbal deemed it necessary to say of him, "I do not think anyone would quote him as an authority[11]".

macof:
1. Mr. Olu, stop lying.. If you don't know something there is no shame in admitting you don't know.
Let me (attempt) to translate the gibberish you wrote
". t' ìbí t'íré ní Àdà ìlè Àyè"
To Birth, to *gibberish * at *gibberish* *gibberish* of Space

And you are still trying to defend this nonsense Yoruba you wrote?

There is a clear difference between "Ibì" (Evil) and "Ibí"(Birth). Ayé(life) and Àyè(Space)

2. Accent marks there again are wrong. Guy just stop using accents marks if you don't know how to use it, even I don't use it when I'm not sure of which goes with certain words

3. Well, just as it is suspected that there are more than one Ogun in history, maybe there are more than one historical Esu (Esu is not looked at much by historians)
So I don't know what Esu you are familiar with but it is essential to keep in mind that Esu has spiritual and historical sides

You are quite funny because you and I know, we aren't in a classroom. So, what if part of the accented was wrong? Despite your view,you couldn't even detect the slight error . Anyway , let me make you learn something new because when you come across two vowels letters in Yoruba , which both follows each other simultaneously from two different words. Thus,one of two vowels must be contracted to one and apostrophe sign placed in it. This is the reason, you saw how it was done in it with the punctuation that I applied i. e

T'ibi( tí + ìbí = t'ìbí ),which is a contraction.

macof interpretation :-

Ayé = (life) x

Àyè= (Space)'.

And I disagree with you because you took the saying with levity. Yoruba proverbs-Idioms- figurative speech interpretation is always deeper than from surface form you see it /them.

Áàyè— space

Àayè—world

Áàyè/ Àyè—alive, living,

Émí(noun)—life

Àyè :- This is referring to the ‘world of humanity' and not just mere, ‘ SPACE', because without human beings born on earth, the eminating forces that govern the positive and negative won't contest on the mind of human being i.e birth of mankind. So, learn from the storeroom of àrúgbo ìlè as I am.


Ìbì— negative force

Ìrè— Positive force

Meanwhile, stop this ego Mr.,because, learning is the key to wisdom. The saying was referring to human's world.

Bí— to born/ give birth.

ÌBí— child's cumbilical cord that she/he was born with, which must be severed after being born.

Ìbì— here

Àyè- This is a fusion of two things into one because it's the world of humans that invloves challenges.


3. Your number ‘3' is without disagreement because there replication of Èshù or Èsù.

For more knowledge, start French study from francophone neighbouring, such as Bénin Republic, Mali, Senegal,(Francophone countries) before venturing into outside Africa,so that you will know how to place accent on Yoruba because English has some challenges, as it regards accent. You doubt? For example:

Read( PR.T)

Reading (PP)

Read (PA T)

The ‘Read' (PA. T ) does not match its Pronunciation. Do you know why?

(b) There is no ‘A' in Yoruba alphabet but ‘À', and other form that has accent, which is the first letter. For example : À— ‘Àjà'

Instead of your ‘A' :

The English ‘A' version

The Yoruba is ‘è' version

This does not mean, English don't use ‘À' ,when they pronounce some words but not seen in written form . For example :

À— Adult
À— After
À— Arise

How are you an expert when , English language does not place accent on all their modern words? Afterall, your knowledge on Yoruba isn't strong because,you were taught in English language from your primary school days till date. . So, learn a little accents formation from French language to aid your Yoruba language's accent. It does help.

Olu317:
You are quite funny because you and I know, we aren't in a classroom. So, what if part of the accented was wrong? Despite your view,you couldn't even detect the slight error . Anyway , let me make you learn something new because when you come across two vowel letters ,in which both follows each other simultaneously, then you have to contract both to one. This is the reason, you saw how it was done,with the punctuation that I applied i. e

T'ibi( tí + ìbí = t'ìbí ),which is a contraction.

macof interpretation :-

Ayé = (life) x

Àyè= (Space)'.

And I disagree with you because you took the saying with levity. Yoruba proverbs-Idioms- figurative speech interpretation is always deeper than from surface form you see it /them.

Áàyè— space

Àayè—world

Áàyè/ Àyè—alive, living,

Émí(noun)—life

Àyè :- This is referring to the ‘world of humanity' and not just mere, ‘ SPACE', because without human beings born on earth, the eminating forces that govern the positive and negative won't contest on the mind of human being i.e birth of mankind. So, learn from the storeroom of àrúgbo ìlè as I am.


Ìbì— negative force

Ìrè— Positive force

Meanwhile, stop this ego Mr.,because, learning is the key to wisdom. The saying was referring to human's world.

Bí— to born/ give birth.

ÌBí— child's cord that she/he was born with, which must be severed after being born.

Àyè- This is a fusion of two things into one because it's the world of humans that invloves challenges.


3. Your number ‘3' is without disagreement because there replication of Èshù or Èsù.

Kindly try study French, from neighbouring Bénin Republic, Mali, Senegal,etc so as to know more and learn accent because English has some challenges, as it regards accent. You doubt? For example:

Read( PR.T)

Reading (PP)

Read (PA T)

The ‘Read' (PA. T ) does not match its Pronunciation. Do you know why?

(b) There is no ‘A' in Yoruba alphabet but ‘À', and other form that has accent, which is the first letter. For example : À— ‘Àjà'

Instead of your ‘A' :

The English ‘A' version

The Yoruba is ‘è' version

This does not mean, English don't use ‘À' ,when they pronounce some words but not seen in written form . For example :

À— Adult
À— After
À— Arise

How are you an expert when , English language does not place accent on all their modern words? Afterall, your knowledge on Yoruba isn't strong because,you were taught in English language from your primary school days till date. . So, learn a little accents formation from French language to aid your Yoruba language's accent. It does help.

. . I can't believe this guy...Guy just shut up and learn Yoruba properly...more importantly stop lying to yourself.

It is T'ibì T'ire ni à da ilẹ̀ Ayé you made a mistake due to your lack of fluency, deal with it and learn how it is written

Your French is not my business as I can't verify that. French is not Yoruba, accent marks are totally different in both languages and that you are using French accents in Yoruba writing just confirms that you don't know Yoruba

macof:
. . I can't believe this guy...Guy just shut up and learn Yoruba properly...more importantly stop lying to yourself.

It is T'ibì T'ire ni à da ilẹ̀ Ayé you made a mistake due to your lack of fluency, deal with it and learn how it is written

Your French is not my business as I can't verify that. French is not Yoruba, accent marks are totally different in both languages and that you are using French accents in Yoruba writing just confirms that you don't know Yoruba

As usual, you lack the pedigree to engage in intellectual juxtapose. Instead, you turn around with the usual negative words usage like your contemporaries.

‘A' alphabet,which is the first alphabet in English's is not part of Yoruba alphabets. ‘À' is the first alphabet of Yoruba. So, study harder to know this.

Below screenshot Knock you off macof because the ‘À', is accented for easy pronunciation. Believe me, you will learn from what I ‘choose' to teach you.

Yoruba : À

English : Ah

Hebrew : Ah /Ha



Am I J.F Odunjo? Kindly learn like a man of integrity.So, deal with it.

Àtunse Titun : Revised Edition

MetaPhysical:
I have a strong theory on the following relationships:
Ad being Ado
Aramean (Iram, Aram) being Oranmiyan
Midian being Mondiana
Addud (Haddud) being Oduduwa
Haddud son of Ad, being Oduduwa son of Adimula
Jerusalem being Ijebu-Isale


If the Yoruba spelling and pronounciations are the authentic, then the foreigners got it wrong. They could not reproduce our tongue and thus mangled it into its Arabiced versions.

Aramean, Oduduwa, Obatala, Obalufon, Sango, Ogun.....and so on, are not proper names but titular of the position...just like the Greeks giving such names as Jupiter, Uranus, Venus, Thor, and so on.

Kindly SHARE and let's see what you have as a theory on the following :

Aramean(Iram,Aram)being Oranmiyan


Oduduwa

Obatala

Obalufon

Sango

*Ogun*

Midian being Mondiana

Addud (Haddud) being Oduduwa

*Haddud* son of Ad , being Oduduwa son of Adimula

*Jerusalem* being Ijebu-Isale

*Adimula*


The Yoruba pronunciations were and are near perfect of the original Semitic people of Hebrew origin,even if they don't recognise it. This is the reason, I don't doubt the native information that claimed, Yoruba are the ancestors of the world e'en if there is no accurate information to back this up . But gradually, scientific revolution will support the Oral, and the unknown 8% DNA found in Yorubas .

Certainly ,the foreigners are trying to resuscitate the language from its original form. Although,you must take cognizance of the language intermixing through migration of the Hebrews and other people from their foundational home to new world . And through this, part of their language slowly decline to give way to new found ones in their new home.


Cheers.

Olu317:
Kindly SHARE and let's see what you have as a theory on the following :

Aramean(Iram,Aram)being Oranmiyan


Oduduwa

Obatala

Obalufon

Sango

*Ogun*

Midian being Mondiana

Addud (Haddud) being Oduduwa

*Haddud* son of Ad , being Oduduwa son of Adimula

*Jerusalem* being Ijebu-Isale

*Adimula*


The Yoruba pronunciations were and are near perfect of the original Semitic people of Hebrew origin,even if they don't recognise it. This is the reason, I don't doubt the native information that claimed, Yoruba are the ancestors of the world e'en if there is no accurate information to back this up . But gradually, scientific revolution will support the Oral, and the unknown 8% DNA found in Yorubas .

Certainly ,the foreigners are trying to resuscitate the language from its original form. Although,you must take cognizance of the language intermixing through migration of the Hebrews and other people from their foundational home to new world . And through this, part of their language slowly decline to give way to new found ones in their new home.


Cheers.

Human civilization started from ile ife ..land of expansion. I don't doubt backward migration into the region again .Yoruba culture is so unique...Because there is Oral history to back it up.

Obalufon:
Human civilization started from ile ife ..land of expansion. I don't doubt backward migration into the region again .Yoruba culture is so unique...Because there is Oral history to back it up.

There is a reason Yorubas bear the name "Tokunbo". If what you say up there is true there would have been some identifier in past history to label the returnees.

There is also a reason Yorubas have towns like "Ado". Ile-Ife itself is an Ado. The origin of this civilization you talk about is in Nineveh. The Ile Ife we have now has always been in existence with human life and had an indigenous name that is now lost. Oduduwa tedo to the aboriginal land and instituted new orders. Part of the order is a re-christening of the name of the land to Ile-Ife.

Now, is Nineveh an original name? NO! Ile-Ife is the authentic and original name. Those who wrote history corrupted Ile-Ife to Nineveh.

In fact, I want to stretch imagination and submit that Adam is wrong spelling of Adimula, and Eve is wrong spelling of Ife/Efe.

Olu317:
Kindly SHARE and let's see what you have as a theory on the following :

Aramean(Iram,Aram)being Oranmiyan

Just the use of pre- and post-fix alone have led to many losses in word sense and meaning. Similar damage is done with the addition of vowels and consonants to root letters and words.

Look at
R-M-Y-N (Yrb from Oranmiyan)
R-M-N (Smt from Aramean)

I believe Aramaic is derived as a language spoken by people of origin in Aramea. So if your origin is Aramea I can call you Aramean. If you speak Aramea language I will say you speak Aramaic.

Now, in Yorubaland names are unique but they have a structure.

Akin+tunde
Akin+ola
Akin_ade
Akin+wunmi
Akin+wale

Ifa+dare
Ifa+yemi
Ifa+dayo

Ola+itan
Ola+wale
Ola+dele
Ola+lekan_
Ola+kunle

Ade+remi
Ade+yemi
Ade+wunmi


Bus+Ayo
Omot+Ayo
Funmil+Ayo
Omol+Ayo


Jokot+Ade
Iyun+Ade
Tiwal+Ade


Pre-fix, post-fix...pre-fix, post-fix...pre-fix, post-fix....Yoruba naming structure! So in the name Oranmiyan the structure is missing. Was he named in Yoruba language or a foreign language? Assuming this is an ancient naming style, do we have examples of similar styles to review?


There are certain things with Oranmiyan as principal authority that has not been outlined.
1- What did he know, and how did he know it?
2- What did he do with what he knew?
3- What legacy/ies or knowledge do we have from his deeds?

Oranmiyan is a standalone subject on his own.


I will be responding to rest later I have been very busy and unable to focus on this writing. I will post what I have here for now.

Later bro.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Oduduwa

Obatala

Obalufon

Sango

*Ogun*

Midian being Mondiana

Addud (Haddud) being Oduduwa

*Haddud* son of Ad , being Oduduwa son of Adimula

*Jerusalem* being Ijebu-Isale

*Adimula*


The Yoruba pronunciations were and are near perfect of the original Semitic people of Hebrew origin,even if they don't recognise it. This is the reason, I don't doubt the native information that claimed, Yoruba are the ancestors of the world e'en if there is no accurate information to back this up . But gradually, scientific revolution will support the Oral, and the unknown 8% DNA found in Yorubas .

Certainly ,the foreigners are trying to resuscitate the language from its original form. Although,you must take cognizance of the language intermixing through migration of the Hebrews and other people from their foundational home to new world . And through this, part of their language slowly decline to give way to new found ones in their new home.


Cheers.

MetaPhysical:
There is a reason Yorubas bear the name "Tokunbo". If what you say up there is true there would have been some identifier in past history to label the returnees.

There is also a reason Yorubas have towns like "Ado". Ile-Ife itself is an Ado. The origin of this civilization you talk about is in Nineveh. The Ile Ife we have now has always been in existence with human life and had an indigenous name that is now lost. Oduduwa tedo to the aboriginal land and instituted new orders. Part of the order is a re-christening of the name of the land to Ile-Ife.

Now, is Nineveh an original name? NO! Ile-Ife is the authentic and original name. Those who wrote history corrupted Ile-Ife to Nineveh.

In fact, I want to stretch imagination and submit that Adam is wrong spelling of Adimula, and Eve is wrong spelling of Ife/Efe.

Either of the two names could be correct, because, we must realise that language looses its original form if such language leaves original place of its abode and over a period of time, especially if the speakers absorbe other new found neighbors's language interesting. While few of such new neighborhood language could also be adopted via conquest or intermarriages. So, consider, both ILEIFE and NINEVEH.

Secondly,EVE isn't the correct word for the acclaimed wife of Adam,even if the meaning of , ‘EVE' is wife and mother of life,from the interpretation of scholars. Research has categorically deciphered the original form as closely related to Arabic's ‘HAWA'/AWA and Yoruba's ‘AYA'. Although most (if not all) translators and interpreters of Hebrew derive the name Eve from the verb חיה ( haya), meaning to live or have life.

One interesting aaspect on the similarities is that Yoruba ‘ÀADÀ' interpretation also fit into the name of Adam because original speaker of Hebrew language disappeared thousands of years ago. Thus, as it seems, Adam isn't Adimula because of the root word of the meaning of Adam. Perhaps, you can look it up in Ooni Ogunwusi ancestral Oriki to understand the difference.


Etymology of the name Adam from the western researchers, states :

The name Adam is the same as the noun אדם ( 'adam ), which is used to mean man( kind ) in the sense of a creature made from earth:

From the above, the Yoruba ÉDÀ and Hebrew ADAM fits perfectly for mankind.

Thus, the calculation of the disapperance through the Early Hebrew script ranges (over 3200 years ago) or as in the Middle Hebrew script (between 3200 and 2500 years ago).

Adam isn't Adimula because of the root word in it because Adam means, man created from red soil.You can look it up in Ooni Ogunwusi ancestral Oriki. Perhaps, you can understand it.

Etymology of the name Adam from the western researchers states :
The name Adam is the same as the noun אדם ( 'adam ), which is used to mean man( kind ) in the sense of a creature made from earth:

From the above, the Yoruba ÀADÀ or DÀ and hebrew's ADAM fits perfectly for human being .

Archeologists discovered the place known in ancient Egypt called , ’Ramesses Gate' . And the the remains of a gargantuan fortress that the pharaonic New Kingdom conquerors built in Jaffa when they controlled the city (from around 1460 B.C.E. to 1125 B.C.E.). Jaffa fit well with ‘offa' , though no evidence on this. But what makes this case interesting is that Jaffa town was also called ‘Ilu', a town,that was one of the entrance town into Egypt through the Middle East.

Now excavations around the fortified gate, the most massive complex of the type Egypt itself, have exposed more remains of the fortress that tell a forgotten story. The Ramesses Gate attest that the Canaanites bitterly opposed Egyptian rule in Jaffa , which reached its peak during the 12th century B.C.E.

MetaPhysical:
Just the use of pre- and post-fix alone have led to many losses in word sense and meaning. Similar damage is done with the addition of vowels and consonants to root letters and words.

Look at
R-M-Y-N (Yrb from Oranmiyan)
R-M-N (Smt from Aramean)

I believe Aramaic is derived as a language spoken by people of origin in Aramea. So if your origin is Aramea I can call you Aramean. If you speak Aramea language I will say you speak Aramaic.

Now, in Yorubaland names are unique but they have a structure.

Akin+tunde
Akin+ola
Akin_ade
Akin+wunmi
Akin+wale

Ifa+dare
Ifa+yemi
Ifa+dayo

Ola+itan
Ola+wale
Ola+dele
Ola+lekan_
Ola+kunle

Ade+remi
Ade+yemi
Ade+wunmi


Bus+Ayo
Omot+Ayo
Funmil+Ayo
Omol+Ayo


Jokot+Ade
Iyun+Ade
Tiwal+Ade


Pre-fix, post-fix...pre-fix, post-fix...pre-fix, post-fix....Yoruba naming structure! So in the name Oranmiyan the structure is missing. Was he named in Yoruba language or a foreign language? Assuming this is an ancient naming style, do we have examples of similar styles to review?


There are certain things with Oranmiyan as principal authority that has not been outlined.
1- What did he know, and how did he know it?
2- What did he do with what he knew?
3- What legacy/ies or knowledge do we have from his deeds?

Oranmiyan is a standalone subject on his own.


I will be responding to rest later I have been very busy and unable to focus on this writing. I will post what I have here for now.

Later bro.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Aramean

As being posited by western Researchers, the name developed through identification of a people of Aram, if we are looking at it from town or country angle. This is because the Arameans were a people that lived in the vicinity of the territory of Israel , but judging from the many different centers that carry names derived from the name Aram ( Paddan-aram ,
Aram-maacah , Aram-zobah ), the Arameans were not a centralized people. In general, Arameans were the people who spoke Aramaic of which Syriac is a dialect — a Semitic language that is closely related to Hebrew and which grew to be the standard language of the Persian empire.

So, Or, Ra,Ora,Oran,Ak,Ad,Ol(El),Bi,etc are certain prefixes or its suffixes that show certain similarities with Semitic, precisely ancient Hebrew, even if some of these prefixes meaning had been lost within the descendants of Yorubas- Ancient HHebrew Race. I have discovered that some lexicon appears in Yoruba language that sparsely and some of these fit as Proto ancient Hebrew language

Mind you, Abraham's father Terah married from the Syriac people known as Aram-Ram.So did Abraham. But Abraham's descendants married back in to Egypt's, Ethiopia's Cush(Sudan axis),which showed possible emigration back and forth to Africa. Meanwhile, the Yoruba have a myth in ILE IFE of Aram-IFE. This personality, ‘Arámfè ruled in Heaven, and sent his sons, Odúwa and Orísha, to a dark and watery region below to create the world and to people it ( Myths of Ífè By John Wyndham London, 1921)'. Such a mythical personality who was said to be associated with thunder and creation is intriguing . Although what remain constant is that Aram appears as a personality in Yoruba lexicon and Hebrew and Arameans lexicon history.

Obalufon:
Human civilization started from ile ife ..land of expansion. I don't doubt backward migration into the region again .Yoruba culture is so unique...Because there is Oral history to back it up.

I tell you of a truth, Yoruba ancestors were the ones through the reinventing of mankind, that God form . This is the reason native oral knowledge claim Yoruba ILEIFE has ancestors of white people amongst them. Have you given such a deep thought even without archaeological evidence or yet genetic's ?

obalufon

bro ..i need more information on monkey story by your friend absolute.. he real makes lots of sense with the yoruba Hebrew connection . but there are little flaws on his long write up.. Esu is not devil there is nothing devil in ife or yoruba tradition. and the story of gbo too

..
Well I think that bro. Olu has given us more traditional insight as to the edun agbori igi reterete that the Ejires were known for. Among the Ogu, whose traditions agrees with that of Yorubas on a lot of things, whenever a set of twins were born in their community, there is always a tradition that is similitude to 'oro Ibeji' in Yoruba, they call theirs, “tu akan na hoho”, their word for ibeji is 'hoho', which is homonym for the ancients. So 'tu akan na hoho' is not Egu language per se, it is indeed Yoruba word that means “tu okan awon ibeji” Typical Yorubas would say, “ipetu si ibeji l'okan” consoling the twins or softening twins' heart.

The Ogu revere the twins in much the same way as the Yoruba, they do bear 'kehinde' and 'Tetede', but I’m not too keen if they do observe ‘the older is younger’ as does Yoruba in their own native tradition, but what’s most striking is this, they call the Taiye, Sao (Esau) and Kehinde, is called Zinsu, “male monkey” by interpretation, Ezin being 'monkey'. It is their variant of the oriki ibeji as edun. Just take a look at the word Esau and Sao, both have common application and sound-similarity, it is such ideals that bro. Olu often point to as to Yoruba/Hebrew cognates, that most knowledge-devalidators here often fail to see. I don’t think anyone needs something different from knowledge devaluers.

The roll call of cognates

Now the birth of Ibeji in Yoruba influences the next births, these were called Idowu, and then Alaba. They were ‘oruko amutorunwa’, which are names that Yoruba brought from their ‘proto homeland’ (orun), and as Sao is akin to Esau, the name Idowu is a recollection of Edom (Edun), Isaac, Isokun and Alaba, Laban: it’s a roll call of the ancestors after the birth of twins. It’s just as simple as that. Why is the word not exactly the same as its Hebrew counterpart? Good question, where there is no written model preserved in a given culture, the phonology of the same word within the same culture in different era may not be the same again, much less in relative distance and time that people have to IMPROVE their accentuation on words: phonology changes (shifts) with time and space.

The egun uses a lot of Yoruba, but they accentuate (IMPROVE) such words that you need to be exceptionally good to unravel it:”aiongbe” (aye oun egbe re, meaning life), again we have ample time to lord it over words and evolve our own comfort accent with time. The one they call Zangbeto, the Yoruba calls Iso-ngbeto, and they (egun) calls it also “krisore” which is Yoruba meaning, a-kiri-sore. They also call Zangbeto, “kitikori”, which mean “cover head with raffia leafs”. Are these Yoruba words? Yes but it is egun words as well. Are they intelligible in egun? No, they only share its meaning with Yoruba, however, it is not intelligible in their language.

So, we all need somebody to lean on, for that matter. But how do we decide which comes from which so one does not become subservient unto the other? The One with the 'meaning' come first before the one with the 'mindshare'. With meaning, you have the origin of the word in question and how it evolve to the point of coinage, but with 'mindshare', you have the sharp derivative-variant with hard interpretation and restricted use of the word in question, if you should try its meaning in mindshare language. Example, Alubosa: Albasa, Mango: mongoro, Talc, atike, Jejune: jejue, garrulous: garo, brassier: bebesia, Counter: kanta, Bricklayer: biriki-la, thicko: tinko, Docemo, Dosunmu.

The words above retained the original structure to some extent as well as their sound quality. But when written, it may be difficult to harmonize the word with the original as meaning the same thing, yet it does. Lets assume we want to interpret alubosa in Yoruba, 'beaten to fall into the lagoon' hmm, that's something else. And why did Yoruba not say 'mango' for mango, and 'peculiar mess' for peculiar mess and not 'penkelemesi'? Every foreign word must adhere to local accentuation and become 'acculturated' like any native sounds that would be used to vocalize it. The Yoruba wont change its vocal accent (Yoruba's signature pitch) to accommodate a foreign word except it falls within the Yoruba accentuation pitch naturally. We can however verify mango because it has original written particular.

So the Yoruba would say of Taiye: Taiye l’olu ejire ara Isokun, edunjobi, omo agbori igi reterete, and of Kehinde omokehinde oyila, mbabi mbayo, o po jojo wolu. Taiye lolu ejire means ‘taiye is the eminent of the two friendly children of Isokun (Isaac), monkey like at birth, living on the heights of trees’. Akehinde gbegbon means, “one who came later usurp the heirloom, I would be glad to begat, one who arrive the land with multitude”. I think these words are open for our interpretation. Also, obi edun is a red pod fruit that taste quite acidic, maybe its so called because of its reddish colour or its just attached to monkey figuratively.

My theory

Did we ever find any answer to Yoruba/bini historical competition? Metaphysical model comes to mind. It is possible through journey system that the ancestors named few places after their original homeland where they descended from in the Levant before the migration. Og and Magog, Ogogo Magogo, Edo, Edom. I think in this “journey system” way of eponymous names, Edo and Yoruba were twin brothers, Jacob (Ajaka) and Esau (Esan). So in light of this, we the Awori still reckon with this family tradition, of our ancient bloodline with Edom, hence we have the owonrin (Lagosians) that reference Bini in their cognomen, “ara ibini arokun tayo”. We are brethren (ara) with the bini people, omo eko yato si ara eko.

The Calabar do kill twins back in time and Mary Slessor was said to have stopped the practice. Ikolaba may be contingents of Laban house. Calabar is also arranged to "war canoe houses" in their tradition, which resonates with what Iko (contingents, corps) means in Yoruba. Jacob was said to have fleeted the flock of Laban and carted away his daughters. Calabar is possibly identical with Iko-Laba, which is ultimately from Iko-Laban, who was at a cross with patriarch Israel (Iseri). Bad blood exist between Laban and Jacob in the genesis account. My humble submission though.

Esu l'eyin ‘beji

As touching Eshu, if Ife does not have it, I may not know. Other Yorubas do not have Moremi in their tradition as well. The Egun calls it, Legba. And we all know Legba to us Yorubas is “adape Ara ilu Egba”. So we hear of it in Ifa: “o gbo riru ebo, o ruu, ogberu atukesu, o tuu, o gbo tiharara, ebo ha fun-un”. Now eru atukesu in that passage is the volition that you take to ikorita, which is figuratively seen as the house of 'esu' because it is where you get to and you are confused, from the figurative projection of the Yoruba that Esu is a confusionist. Ikorita meta ree, tii daamu alejo.

Esu as a force of evil (devil)

Esu laalu okiri oko, abani woran baorida, ebora tiije latoopa. I don't think 'abani woran bao rida' is a noble character that depicts an angel but an evil genius. The Yoruba says esu leyin ibeji, we may not know why some ancient Yoruba and her neighbours kill twins in time past, but with that phrase, we need to search no further, they believe that there is evil that comes to town after the birth of twins, such fear of evil led to idolizing the twins in the first place perhaps, or better still because they were the ancestors of Yoruba and her neighbours. So, twins veneration is the continuation of Yoruba's ancestor worshiping.

Some communities do the needful to avert the fear of the unknown by getting rid of the twin altogether. One thing is common to all; they have iota of worries inherent in a lost tradition of the place of twins in their history, or had fail at understanding the lost tradition they use to have of twins. People perish for lack of knowledge, but they were playing their own anti-Semitism. Somehow, they were trying to avert another Jacob and Esau spell and as well curb the re-emergence of an old, expansionist-Israel kind of occupationists in another generation to come.

Esu as an altar depicting Ostracism

The Yoruba says “alangba ori esu, t’oun t’esu l’elejo”. Ori esu in Yoruba is what the Egun call sin-tho (homeland foundation), meaning ‘the foundation altar’. Every compound has this foundation altar in Yorubaland where they pour oil, and as the compound expands, it may become irrelevant except it was laid by a very prominent founding father. Esu is the little heap of clay, fixed with potsherd, moulded by the first person to camp at a site considered for home. That mould is what Yoruba call E-su that is, ‘the mould’. This variant is the disambiguation of the word.

However, it’s significant: the potsherd in ancient Israel means that “eyan ti bu ile orisun e d’iwo”. You are no longer a citizen of the old country; you have broken free from their hold. The symbolism (aroko) or the token is rampant in Euro Asia, the potsherd is a token of ostracism, and that’s exactly the significance when it is stuck on the mould called esu, which is ancient Yoruba for altar, now transformed to ‘ojubo’. Esu was ostracized from Orun, so to say, just as you have it in the book of revelation.

The Office Of Esu

Now there is a place for Esu and Egba in Yoruba language, Esu was once the one you are meant to consult in Yoruba for rule of law in time past, so it is said, “ko b’esu b’egba” to mean, he “did not reason deep" or "made no consultation” before doing the wrong thing. That combination is esu and egba: Esu is the malefactor in Yoruba history, ([esu] abani woran bao rida: one who led one to evil, if you can’t commit one by yourself). Egba is the savior: so the confusion is, who is esu to an average Yoruba, the good or the bad guy?

Esu is steeped in controversy much like her identity. But meanwhile, Esu was to some, egba [tii gbani lowo isoro], and to some, 'abani woran baorida'. Note, it is not 'abani ware bao rida'. Ire lao maa da o, aoni daran. That's where Esu becomes "the devil". Elesu is an antagonist, someone who has become "elesu leyin eni" is a serious antagonist that is lurking everywhere you go to expose you to total disgrace. They will say, "oun ni won fi se elesu leyin e" meaning, "that's the one raised to be his antagonist". The projection of this negative quality into human repute is describing the antagonist as one possessed by the demon of evil, (elesu) in Yoruba.

Sensibly speaking now (trying to deduce intellectual significance from ko b'esu b'egba) Esu was an icon in Yoruba whom you report a criminal offence to for adjudication, instead of taking the law to your own hands. Esu was a contemporary of Orunmila. In the chronicles of the kings of Lagos Island, after Akinsemoyin, you hear “esugbayi”, it may be anachronistic, Esu may have reigned as an empress in Lagos Island in the remote past, (olori olugbani) as Esu is a common feminine name on the Island among the ancients.

Etymology of Esu

Esu is known as Elegba or Elegbara (savior of his kindred). In the annals of religious history, the world is familiar with the Jews and the word of Jesus to the Samaritan woman reads, ‘salvation is of the Jews’. Well what the world don’t know is that the Yoruba equally had their own ‘savior’ in time of old, Olori Olugbani, whose name means ‘savior of mankind’. In essence, ancient Yoruba has their concept of salvation. Oun meta l'eda nwa, eda nwowo, eda nwomo, eda nwatunbotan aye. The last part was echoed in Paul's letter to Romans, the earnest expectation of creation is the manifestation of children of God. Atunbotan aye is "a complete rebirth of the earth and her people".

My point here is this: Salvation is a common concept to Yoruba and to the Jew, and both used the same cognate to denote the word in question. And that’s why Jesu rhymes with Esu, because both comes from Jewish word that means ‘Ye-shu-a’, God is our salvation. Jesu and Esu came from the same root word, that’s where I’m going. Yes but how?

When the Eyo wants to sign out, they scream “Eshua!” (mayoroflagos will know) why not another word? Because it’s not by accident they say that word, it is the colophon for what they have just recited, the Aro-Eyo “lamentations of Eyo”. So, they put the signature of the original composer at the end of their recitations to abide by the code of ethics of the ancient scholars, since it is not their lamentation, but someone else’s. So the word connotes ‘table of reference’ to them.

So, Eshua is the original form of the cognate, Yeosuwa, (anglicized as Joshua) meaning, God will save us. It is the forgotten root word for Esu (‘esua': save us) that makes Yoruba coin an interpretation to it as 'Elegba', that is, ‘one who saves’. As such, esu is egba or agbara or elegbara. Don’t be confused, we borrowed an idea from the Hebrew to decode the relationship between Esu and egba or to further understand from a remote source (Josua, Eshua, Jesu) how the Yoruba arrive at egba as replacement for Esu, vice versa, lest it is the only thing the crying baby will see and start weeping all over again. Now let’s crosscheck that.

In modern Yoruba, esusu means “saving and saving” repeated twice to mean a repeated action. In what language did we come about the word esusu? We don’t know. Our own word is 'ajo', and the action itself, ‘i-gba-jo’ that is, ‘saving all together’. “O po bi babaesua” is a Yoruba word, but I don’t know what it means. Without borrowing we would still be stranded in the confusion of what makes Esu to be egba. And now that’s settled. Esu is egba because in the proto-Yoruba, the word esu means 'savior', while in today Yoruba, its transformed to 'egba' to save us the details by the early scholars, such that saying ko besu begba is saying the same thing with two different words. If that’s what we get for this long post, then it’s worth it.

Why is Esu linked to Ketu?

Because of the foggy connection in 'atukesu' and 'ketu', and because egba is a derivative of egba alake, which comes from egba alaketu. Its about the relativity of words. 'Egba a la ketu' is Yoruba speaking English, which happens many times, meaning egba is identical with ketu. AfroEuroAsia is a culture connection that revolves around middle east, europe and west africa coaster contact points in the dark ages, with egypt being the centre of this phylum of culture. Nobody evolved, we were created (eda) and people only breed and spread to the coaster limits of the earth. That's why Yoruba history began with nigba iwase, meaning when the ancestors arrived to establish the foundation.

This is the farthest point in time and space, what has evolve around you but human wisdom?

In the post above I've not refrence Ifa, but pure linguistic guide with Yoruba language. Olu slips but corrected himself with Esu, but none of you master traditionalist were abl to give more than the word that he gave. Was that all you know from tradition about Laalu? Is there nothing again about Esu in Yoruba language? How can you furnish a reconstruction when you do not know how to decipher the word in which history is preserved? Laalu okiri oko, not laalu ogiri oko.

0balufonlll:
All noise, no substance.

If I learned the odu of my itefa extensively & you learn like 10 ese from each oju odu, would it mean I know Ifa more than you if I recited like 50 verses from one odu while you recited 10 per odu? . If I travelled to say, the backwaters of Ekiti to learn the exteremes of, say, Ose-Ofun then I come back here, chant it in front of older Babalawos who ask me the Oluwo & then recite it after me to learn or scrutinize it then it means I suddenly know better than them? If you divinate for a person, you can choose to chant the ese or pick out the ase/instructions, depending on how things are done in your locality.

Mr. Igbodu, I have told you where I took my verse from as to the first post you quoted, it is your duty to tell us if it exist or not, I have quoted from the family of Osun, tell us whether it exist or does not exist in Oju Odu Ifa. Don't take us through your hypnotic maze. After all, you will be helping several unsuspecting people not to be scammed by me, and would have put tradition in their correct order that is becoming of an awo as you silence the fraudsters. Please don't compound the problem with this terse hullabaloo of yours.

You only want to hoodwink your uneducated peers with Ifa. It is common knowledge that Ifa contains religious & historical materials. Knowing how to separate them is the key thing. Since Ifa records that Oduduwa descended with a chain, I guess to you that is actual thing even though the same Ifa recorded that Oduduwa walked the streets of Morire Agbada. The same Ifa said Oluorgbo was the oniwe orun that communicated the events of Ife with Olodumare; the same Ifa recorded data about an Oluorogbo the leader of Ilase group in Ife.

I am Alado m'oro, I understand your sinister scheme. Now my take as to heaven has nothing to do with your Oduduwa myth, it has a lot to do with my oriki, which is my ancestral lineage "omo oniporogun l'ode orun". I am not subservient to your stranglehold on Oduduwa, neither am I a subject to Ile Ife. My tradition trace back to Orun, the source of Yoruba ancestors, so I'm not afraid of you, neither do I have any need to revere you with any awe or importance. Hope you get? I owe you nothing but mutual respect if you won it.

So Mr. which is history to you? The spiritual or those with actual known locations? Think about that for a minute before you go about swinging Ifa to fool the naive ones like Olu.

Please, share the path of Odu with Oduduwa coming with chain from heaven here, let us see it and we'll learn from it. Don't paraphrase your credential, flaunt it as I and Olu flaunts our miseducation, everyone will through your effort understand the mode of presentation of such intellectual resources as well as the beauty of the verse at stake and, what its poetic attribute entails. Kindly lead with example and not conform with all this uneducated "all noise, no substance" crew.

Did they affix the name Oduduwa to everything you say in Yoruba? So, block that path, but you will always be disappointed. There are many inlet and outlet to Yoruba history without Oduduwa coming to the picture. Yoruba history is pleasant, with or without that name.

Your lack of respect for tradition was the same reason you couldn’t quote an Ifa with its Oluwo, smh. Using your style for a minute, Yoruba would say ‘eje ka se bi wan se nse ki o ba le ri bi o tin ri’. Awe, like I said before, proceed with your exercise at distortion.

What kind of person is this? You are swimming in knowledge and you don't have it. I must be saying this 'salutary words' when I mean to make a point? So what historical point have you made in that salutary piece? Empty quote full of reference to no one in particular, is that becoming of a man writing in peer reviewed journal? Tell us what the ancestors says, not some kowtow praise.

Abo'ru bo'ye kan o le p'omo awo.

Olu317:
olodo rabata, one's elderly one is called father in Yoruba lexicon because Uncle has no founding base in Yoruba ancient lexicon.

As you can see, I have littered this platform by calling you out to post your ancestors name in the ruling houses but you can't because you are not one of them.

Believe it or not, I will repost mine again for record purpose because of people like you. Mind you, I will post it on ‘ absoluteSuccess ' handle for him to acknowledge it and to taunt you because you don't respect facts. So that you will see me and acknowledged me in glory as I have defended my ancestors,the same way they defended theirs

*Note*
You will delete your handle sé, o dàmílojú gàn.

LOLZ

He wont post his, probably it has no historical gravitation. You definitely have a good one if he trace alagada ogun back to you, its the reference to Ojo, who was one of the icons of history at the onset of Yoruba history, this trace back to Ibadan tradition and many places in Yoruba, it is reported as Beyoja in some parts of Yoruba tradition. Ibadan ni ile OluYo le.

Compelling Cognate between Jacob/Aqeb and Akein/Akeinde

The name Jacob first appeared in Bible, as the one and only Old Testament Jacob,who is a son of Isaac and Rebekah, and twin brother of Esau.
The name Jacob comes from the common Hebrew noun עקב (aqeb ) meaning Supplanter ( he that takes over the position of another). This same fate is divinely acknowledge amongst Yoruba belief on the last child that is born amongst as Akeinde gbé'gbon.
And tentatively, the younger of the two between the twin become the older. This, has been confirmed by Genesis 25:23 , which we read that God foretold the twins' fate: the older shall serve the younger.

Cognate between Èsù-Èsùá-Yèsùá and Jesua -Hosea -Jesus.

Scholars state that the name Joshua,which occurs four times in the Bible is the same as Jesua. Most famous is the judge Joshua the
Ephraimite, the successor of Moses and the one who leads Israel into the Promised Land. The original name of this Joshua is Hosea ( הושע ) but Moses names him Joshua.
Joshua is also the original Hebrew form of the Greek name Jesus. A shortened form of Joshua is the name Jeshua ( ישוע),which comes from the root-verb ישע ( yasha' ), meaning to save or deliver. Funny enough the Yoruba belief acknowledge Èsù as the messenger of God,who saves mankind once he is called upon.

absoluteSuccess:
LOLZ

He wont post his, probably it has no historical gravitation. You definitely have a good one if he trace alagada ogun back to you, its the reference to Ojo, who was one of the icons of history at the onset of Yoruba history, this trace back to Ibadan tradition and many places in Yoruba, it is reported as Beyoja in some parts of Yoruba tradition. Ibadan ni ile OluYo le.

Smiling ..Alagada Ogun is a corruption and contraction form of his oriki because of the way it is presented. Furthermore, over period of time, there are slight error in the writing form of oriki, which is always different from verbal praises. And I intend not share such information anymore. I intend to silence him which is the reason I decided to post Lusi documented info...

absoluteSuccess:
LOLZ

He wont post his, probably it has no historical gravitation. You definitely have a good one if he trace alagada ogun back to you, its the reference to Ojo, who was one of the icons of history at the onset of Yoruba history, this trace back to Ibadan tradition and many places in Yoruba, it is reported as Beyoja in some parts of Yoruba tradition. Ibadan ni ile OluYo le.

My ancestors.....Only liars hide.

obalufonIII, I have reposted mine. Kindly post your ancestors name amongst the ruling houses because your investigation on my ancestors will always meet a barricade...

Proof your originality with your ancestors documented in ILEIFE.

I am waiting for you to do the needful by posting your ancestors name as mine has appeared.

I'm so sadden of extent of psychological effect of white man's religion has had on us. Our forefathers never demonized Esu because they knew the meaning of Esu...Demonization of Esu started with Christianity orchestrated by the British carried out by a christian stooge Bishop ajayi crowther slave returnee that had no knowledge of our tradition to demonize the role esu had in the lives of our forefathers because they knew the importance of esu in our tradition , every compound had an Altar of Esu as the spot where all their prayers are convey to Almighty God also a symbol of deterrent for evil doers to be careful ..Esu being an Angel/Irumole of mercy Esu is not Orisha/Saint... Orishas are human that were deified due to their supernatural powers .,some Irumole also manifested themselves through human possession of their supernatural powers and were later deified example Sango , Esu irumole was sent to earth from heaven by God is the only link between human and Almighty God Eledumare we pacify God through ESu he acts as the police that enforce Gods laws he has the responsibility to bring to book anybody that disobey Eledumare/God ..Esu is merciful and forgiving Irumole he knows our flaws being human we can't do without sin. No motion without friction necessity is mother of invention.just pacify him with ero palm oil to calm down your karma .. . i know how human mind works despite your high intelligence all your thoughts on esu is based on Christianity assumption of Esu ..If you have never been punched before you wouldn't know how to dodge a blow . if there is no hunger you wont know how to farm, Aba ni wa oran ba ri da ."" if there is no pain we won't be cautious and careful of our fragility .. as a human being we need Esu because we are sinner . Esu is the force of Life that lead us to our destiny Esu sit at the middle of our consciousness from him comes intuition ,wisdom and knowledge he is not confusionist but guardian Angel in our journey through life so merciful in time of trouble he broadens our mind ...Esu the merciful and passionate Angel/irumole so merciful to the extent he shared our trouble and feelings even more than us ..Elekun sunkun lanroye sun Eje, Oni mi sumi lanroye su ifun.. when we cry tears he cries blood with us so sympathetic toward human when we are stooling he stool intestine as a sign our extreme empathy with us ,he wants the best for us he barrages our mind with all ideas just to get us out of situation with its consequences if is helpful out of love and some time he allows things to happen naturally to lead us to our path in life if we are going astray ..Aba ni wa Oran ba rida..He will punish evil doer His Irumole of Justice without him the world will be chaotic he ensures that people do not misbehave he brings evil doers to justice ,please don't interpret yoruba religion based on white man's religion .... I hope you understand me i'm not literary savvy like you .... I am not against Mr Olu hebrew claim because i have a prove on it Oral history through my maternal great grand father he was from a royal house and also a priesthood lineage awo imale olokun not from ife .

Olu317:
My ancestors.....Only liars hide.

Wow, this is awesome, it is the real stuff bro. You are a prince apparent.

You see, Yoruba tradition is a perfect match wherever you go, it does not lie.

Together we'll restore the truth and bring back the light to our fatherland.

No one holds God to a ransom, He has many good hands as replacements.

Ile-ife is the source ...

Obalufon:
Ile-ife is the source ...

As you can see, I have not lied about my ancestors. And as far as I am concerned, he obalufonIII has offended my ancestors and until he apologize to them before I can think of forgiveness toward him.

absoluteSuccess:
Wow, this is awesome, it is the real stuff bro. You are a prince apparent.

You see, Yoruba tradition is a perfect match wherever you go, it does not lie.

Together we'll restore the truth and bring back the light to our fatherland.

No one holds God to a ransom, He has many good hands as replacements.

With great humility do say it as I am a direct patrilineal descendant of Oranmiyan. And together, we shall restore the glory of our forefathers through academic and oral means .Àshé

Olu317:
As you can see, I have not lied about my ancestors. And as far as I am concerned, he obalufonIII has offended my ancestors and until he apologize to them before I can think of forgiveness toward him.

obalufonIII Is only protecting the integrity of our ancestors some of our assertions are wrong, debasing our ancestors values and religion like some write up of absolutesuccess. no one is 100% right , i don't blame ObalufonIII all you need to do is to be tactful and diplomatic in the way you Divulge your facts,. if he picks offences let him see reason ..conflict of Ego is the problem.. is only a fool that will think he or she knows it all.. i have learnt alot from you guys here through your flaws and facts to broaden my own knowledge

Obalufon:
I'm so sadden of extent of psychological effect of white man's religion has had on us. Our forefathers never demonized Esu because they knew the meaning of Esu...Demonization of Esu started with Christianity orchestrated by the British carried out by a christian stooge Bishop ajayi crowther slave returnee that had no knowledge of our tradition to demonize the role esu had in the lives of our forefathers because they knew the importance of esu in our tradition , every compound had an Altar of Esu as the spot where all their prayers are convey to Almighty God also a symbol of deterrent for evil doers to be careful ..Esu being an Angel/Irumole of mercy Esu is not Orisha/Saint... Orisha is human that was deify due to their supernatural powers .,some Irumole also manifested themselves through human possession of their supernatural powers and were later deified example Sango , Esu irumole was sent to earth from heaven by God is the only link between human and Almighty God Eledumare we pacify God through ESu he acts as the police that enforce Gods laws he has the responsibility to bring to book anybody that disobey Eledumare/God ..Esu is merciful and forgiving Irumole he knows our flaws being human we can't do without sin. No motion without friction necessity is mother of invention.just pacify him with ero palm oil to calm down your karma .. . i know how human mind works despite your high intelligence all your thoughts on esu is based on Christianity assumption of Esu ..If you have never been punched before you wouldn't know how to dodge a blow . if there is no hunger you wont know how to farm, Aba ni wa oran ba ri da ."" if there is no pain we won't be cautious and careful of our fragility .. as a human being we need Esu because we are sinner . Esu is the force of Life that lead us to our destiny Esu sit at the middle of our consciousness from him comes intuition ,wisdom and knowledge he is not confusionist but guardian Angel in our journey through life so merciful in time of trouble he broadens our mind ...Esu the merciful and passionate Angel/irumole so merciful to the extent he shared our trouble and feelings even more than us ..Elekun sunkun lanroye sun Eje, Oni mi sumi lanroye su ifun.. when we cry tears he cries blood with us so sympathetic toward human when we are stooling he stool intestine as a sign our extreme empathy with us ,he wants the best for us he barrages our mind with all ideas just to get us out of situation with its consequences if is helpful out of love and some time he allows things to happen naturally to lead us to our path in life if we are going astray ..Aba ni wa Oran ba rida..He will punish evil doer His Irumole of Justice without him the world will be chaotic he ensures that people do not misbehave he brings evil doers to justice ,please don't interpret yoruba religion based on white man's religion .... I hope you understand me i'm not literary savvy like you .... I am not against Mr Olu hebrew claim because i have a prove on it Oral history through my maternal great grand father he was from a royal house and also a priesthood lineage awo imale olokun not from ife .

Despite the name tag for the Esu in Yoruba tradition as the medium between God and man. What is evil in Yoruba cosmology ?

Secondly, Do you have radiocarbon data or other information as the proof about Nigeria's ILEIFE location as the home of God's creation?

Cheers

Olu317:
Despite the name tag for the Esu in Yoruba tradition as the medium between God and man. What is evil in Yoruba cosmology ?

Secondly, Do you have radiocarbon data or other information as the proof about Nigeria's ILEIFE location as the home of God's creation?

Cheers

you need to visit ile-ife Olu ... Ibi is evil negative energy. Ire positive energy as human we are born with evil and good . we have edi ....we don't have Satan that rival authority with God ..Eledumare is too supreme we are pious people .. i don't doubt the east connection because i know alot about it than you thought with route of migration from my maternal lineage i also embrace my paternal oral history more base on physical evidence

Obalufon:
obalufonIII Is only protecting the integrity of our ancestors some of our assertions are wrong, debasing our ancestors values and religion like some write up of absolutesuccess. no one is 100% right , i don't blame ObalufonIII all you need to do is too tactful and diplomatic in the way you Divulge your facts,. if he picks offences let him sees reason ..conflict of Ego is the problem.. is only a fool that will think he or she knows all.. i have learnt alot from you guys here through your flaws and facts to broaden my own knowledge

Why not blame a man that once claimed Odu'a was born in ILE IFE Nigeria,when there is no such proof?

Why not blame him when he use negative words such as fraud on my personality and my research work even when I show screenshot of the word I compare with Yoruba lexicon?

Why not blame him when he said Oluigbo isn't related to Obamakin Osangangan when history says otherwise?

Why not call him to order when he said my ancestors were nobody in ILEIFE despite my gentleman approach?

Why not blame someone who said Odu'a descended with chain but challenge others with negative words when there is nothing like evidence to support such view of his via archeology ?

You have to call a spade a spade,even if there are differences in opinion which is normal. And as regards absoluteSuccess researched work, ought not be a big deal if you can proof to him your perspective on some of the things you disagree with him or I. This place is for enlightenment and not for children like mindsets. After all, Ìlè làtí n ko ésho ro'dè. This is what Stand to gain from your knowledge and others who are willing to share it.


Bro, I stand firm in purity because that's my divinity colour.


Cheers

Obalufon:
you need to visit ile-ife Olu ... Ibi is evil negative energy. Ire positive energy as human we are born with evil and good . we have edi ....we don't have Satan that rival authority with God ..Eledumare is too supreme we are pious people .. i don't doubt the east connection because i know alot about it than you thought with route of migration from my maternal lineage i also embrace my paternal oral history more base on physical evidence

I have been to ILE IFE several times..... Ìlè Bàbà Omo ki bo' mo l'éru.

And you haven't answered my question perfectly as I had expected despite the meaning of ibi. Infact, I explained it in my response to macof's post, some days ago. Èsù role's is important in Yoruba spiritual world as he is the one chosen by Èlèdúùmàrè with such duty to ward off any god from harming a mortal and he can also look away if the offending mortal refuses to perform sacrifice to ward of evil.

As it has been said on several times that Èṣú does not cast evil,but he is merely performing his duties to ensure that no man is unjustly attacked by evil. According to IFA philosophy,there are eight forms of evil, and these are :

Death

Pestilence

Loss

Paralysis

Trouble

Curse

Bondage

Iniquity

All these eight are under the supervision of Èṣú according to God (Olodumare) who placed Èṣú in that role to monitor their activities. And these eight ibi are always trying to hinder the progress of man and this is why any sacrifice or rites performed on earth to ward evil must have Èṣú’s Fifth share since he alone has authority to tell the Eight evil to desist from harming a particular person in Yoruba cosmology.

Questions

1.What exactly do you know about these eight human challenges?

2. Why is only the witches and sorcerers that Èṣú has no power over if he is the medium between man and heaven?

Mo ki gbogbo awa omo kaaro ojiire o

Mo k'ìré oo. É dé káàbo sí orí àbàlà tí à tí un jíroro nípà ìtan orílé Èdè Yorùbà.

Ìrè oo

Olu317:
With great humility do say it as I am a direct patrilineal descendant of Oranmiyan. And together, we shall restore the glory of our forefathers through academic and oral means .Àshé

So shall it be,

"Oturupondi yi eyin o p'omo re, eri bi Orunmila gbe soro bee si?"

Ibi t'ologbon meji gbe nsoro, okolo tin be nibe adofo."

Amen.