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Stats: 2,229,057 members, 4,876,315 topics. Date: Thursday, 18 April 2019 at 11:39 AM
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 9:56am On Aug 28, 2018|
Who exactly were the controversial Hebrew that had a culture that developed through Ethiopia, Nubians and Ancient Kemet?
First the story of Hebrew started with Abraham, the documented patriarch of Hebrew descendants. To know the history, we must find out the genealogy of Abraham ancestors before his descendants' and their complexion.
Who was Abraham's ancestor?
Abraham's father was Terah. And Terah's father was Nahor son of Serug , descent of Shem.
Terah who was relative of Nimrod was a merchant who sold Idols in the city of Ur . It is a widely known fact that Nimrod was the son of Cush. And Cush was the progenitor of Nubians and Ethiopians.
Both Nubians and Ancient Ethiopians were known as Black people, which made Nimrod a dark skin man.
Who was the Hebrew's ancestor ?
Since Abraham ancestor had being linked to a dark skin people ,then his direct descendants must have a dark skin traits. Abraham gave birth to Ishmael and Isaac's Lineage. According to the Biblical reference, he was the first to be called Hebrew,(Gen 14:13). He was said to had came from the land of Ur(ORR) of the Chaldeans (Gen13:13),which is in present day Iraq.
Who were the Chaldeans?
Godfrey Higgins, a reliable English antiquary says,‘The Chaldeans were originally Negroes'.
Professor Rudolph Windsor is in total agreement with this , which he stated in his very noteworthy book, ‘FROM BABYLON TO TIMBUKTU'. He wrote, ‘ The Chaldeans and of that Region were jet black in their complexion'. Today, Basra people are dark skin people indigenous in Iraq to proof this point.
Etymology of Ur of Iraq
The root word which is ‘ORR' that has been translated to mean fire oven. The name is a descriptive of the heat of the sun in that region with over 120 degrees. This location was also the ancient Sumerian civilization begun . The Sumerians called themselves ‘Saggig', which is interpreted as ‘black headed ones' because they shaved their heads .
A roman Historian, named Tacitus, who lived during C.E 90, said, ‘ Many assert that the Hebrew are a Race of Ethiopian Origin' .
This statement showed that the Hebrews were compared to a dark skin Ethiopians, who were Ham's descendants.
Historian and scholar J.A Rogers commented, For the Romans to have considered them(Hebrew) as Ethiopians is a clear indication of their color, because the Ethiopians are a known black People'.
Tacitus also said that the Hebrew were Egyptians, who left Egypt during a disease outbreak.
The testimony of the ancients, the scriptures, & many Egyptologists, along with archaeology confirms that the Egyptians during biblical times were a "BLACK" PEOPLE.
How are the Egyptian and Hebrew Black People?
The bible on multiple occasions describes the ancient Hebrews as looking like the Egyptians in physical appearance.
In Genesis chapter 50 verses 7-11, scripture will describes ALL the Hebrews as looking like the ancient Egyptians.
After Jacob (who's name was changed to Iseri(e)– Israel) died in the land of Egypt, all the Hebrews and Egyptians went down to the land of Canaan to bury him (He asked his son to bury him in the land of Canaan with his forefathers (Genesis 49:29-30).Verses 7-8; states that all the elders of Pharaoh's house and all the elders of the land of Egypt along with all the Hebrews (except for their small children) went down.
VERSE 9 says, "It was a very great company."
VERSE 11 says, that the Canaanite saw the funeral procession and said "THIS IS A GRIEVOUS MOURNING TO THE EGYPTIANS".
But, remember this was a mixed multitude of Hebrews and Egyptians going to bury a HEBREW, and the Canaanite identified them both as Egyptians.
It is because, the Canaanite saw a great company of dark skinned people who all look like native (black) Egyptians.
If the Hebrews were a white skinned people, as we have been led to believe.
The Canaanite who were familiar with both the Hebrews and Egyptians would have acknowledged them both by saying, "THIS IS A GRIEVOUS MOURNING TO THE EGYPTIANS AND HEBREWS." Without doubt white Hebrews would have stuck out like a sore thump among the black Egyptians.
The Canaanites never Identified the Hebrews separately from the Egyptians. Since it was a Hebrew being buried you know the Israelites were the ones who were mourning the greatest. The Canaanites seen this and though those Israelites in mourning were Egyptians.The scripture says that the Canaanite named the place where they saw this great mourning for a HEBREW Abel Mizraim which means the meadow of Egypt/Mizraim or Mourning of the Egyptians.
In Conclusion; During the World War II in 1939–1945, the so called Jews who were in the prison camp didn't turn Turned Black as Coal as the ancient Hebrew did.
This doesn't mean some of the Europeans arent Hebrew descendants which was due to intermarriages but the ancient Hebrew had Colour as light skin tone,brownish to the darkest hue.
Below Biblical passages established this fact:
1. Job 30:30
My skin is black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat.
2. Lamentations 5:10 King James Version (KJV)
Our skin was black like an oven because of the terrible famine.
3. Leviticus 13:36-37
verse 36 says,‘ the priest is to examine them, and if he finds that the sore has spread in the skin, he does not need to look for yellow hair; they are unclean.
Verse 37 If, however, the sore is unchanged so far as the priest can see, and if black hair has grown in it, the affected person is healed. They are clean, and the priest shall pronounce them clean.
4. Lamentations 4:8-10
Their visage is blacker than a coal; they are not known in the streets: their skin cleaveth to their bones; it is withered, it is become like a stick.
Lastly, for the inquisitives,who windup sentiments because some of saw and resaerched works that claimed Yorubas as being linked to Middle East,should read out the biblical record that had passed through great Empires,which stated the color of the ancient Hebrews.
Empire such as the following had record:
1. Kemet, the original name of Pharaoh's kingdom-Empire, which was changed to Egypt by the Greek.
The name 'Egypt' comes from the Greek's Aegyptos, which was the Greek pronunciation of the Egyptian name ' Hwt-Ka-Ptah ' (which means "House of the Spirit of Ptah ", who was a very early god of the Ancient Egyptians
2. Assyrian Era
3. Babylonian Era
4. Persian Era
5. Greek Era
6. Roman Era
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by absoluteSuccess: 10:58pm On Aug 28, 2018|
Just when you thought that you lonely,
and that your life is not well spent,
wake up tomorrow you gonna be,
living the right life.
Being the best at what you do means a recluse kind of life, you need loneliness to concentrate and decipher great many secrets that the ancestors will send to you. Many times you may even be enveloped with the thought that your quest may not be relevant afterall, but never give up.
When I did the post on Olokun, I was struggling and barely surviving and was seriously sinking in debt of not so much money. However, the tide turn when I got married and I'm doing just fine, hoping for the best that life can bring, praying not to go down on another downward spiral as usual.
Thank God that you came on board, it gave me an ease and I believe you are God sent, God sent you to take over from me so I can concentrate on what I needed to do to put my house together then so I could have a home. My prayer is that God of Creation will send great help your way always.
My prince, you have also been choose by the ancestors like some of us here. may the good fortune reward your effort.
You will succeed.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 2:26pm On Aug 29, 2018|
absoluteSuccess:Smiling while reading this piece of information that's heavily challenging considering your belief on my personality, which made me remembered three decades ago that my mom had a vision.......
Hmmmm, contrary to your believe in coordinating of your home through self effort, which is absolutely incorrect because, ‘no woman in every thousand(1000) is found to be good'(Ecclesiastes 7:28 ).Only God grants man with a virtuous woman(Proverbs 19:14) .Trust Eledumare , your home is already built on Olorun's foundation and you should only consolidate on it. And I do believe your wife knows your calling and supportive of it as regard the work you do and doing in showcasing the glory of Yoruba to the world.The
Yoruba people who were the chosen people of God because they were the ones God started to manifest himself in physical to the world.
As regard the duty call , I am not different from you nor others Sir, because being a husband and father isn't easy at all whichever way you look at it,especially,he that wants OMOLUIWABI children as descendants.Èemí olu317 ti o bèerè fún ókàn, tí èji lo wólè to mi wà,mo jùbáà. And see me not as someone who is taking the mantle from you because it is not possible because you are among the chosen and I am a mortal man with flaws ,who is learning from all of you that believe in this school of thought. Omodè gbón àgbà gbón ní wón fí dà'lé Ìfé .
We must walk the work to make it work because all have a role to play in this work. And I became part of this forum to support you,MetaPhysical and others that have Knowledge ,wisdom and understanding on this subject matter. Èlèdúmáàrè à fùn wà níi okùn àtí àgbárà làtí lèkè
Seal seal seal.....Nostalgic Unforgettable.... Billy Ocean's ‘Suddenly,' was my favourite, when I was really younger...
On a last note,‘winners never quit and quitters never
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by absoluteSuccess: 7:42am On Aug 30, 2018|
Suddenly, life's got new meaning to me...
Baba 'beji, etoju awon ejire o, omo meji awon alaisiki omo, winninwinni loju orogun, ejiworo loju iya e' nba bejire inu mi adun o. Men you are blessed my brother. Oluwa awo wapo ooo. Nijelo, olugbodi ni mo koko bi o, olugbodi naa ni baba to bi emi naa l'omo. Ika mejila ni baba mi ni. Mii mo meaning Olugbodi o ,
Ko easy lati je omokunrin o, aranse Olorun ni eniyan fi nje eeyan o, ti mo ba wo bi elomi se nsurvive nigba mi ehn, maa tun dupe temi. Eyi to daa ju (kamaa somi) ni ki eyan maa se business ara'e, kawon customer mawa tunwa. ko easy ko easy ni gbogbo araye kan nso.
Sugbon ti Olorun bati gbo adura eda, asiko iserere oluwae ti to niyen, but oun naa kode tun gbudo lo f'ayo fo o, if not, mo sorry gan, tori ki circle yen tun to wa, Olorun lo mo. Amosa, Alanu l'Olorun, Oba t'oun pese fun eye oju orun, a maa pese funwa lojojumo o, amin.
You know, already the idea has been firmly established, you can't always tell what news will break next that will further our understanding the more. But already, the truth is being gradually deciphered.
Yes, it is from Yorubaland and all Nigeria that God will reveal Himself in another dimension of biblical proportion in this end time, and the prophecy will come home to roost as written by Isaiah the prophet...
Arise, shine, for thy light has come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon you.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 2:13pm On Aug 30, 2018|
absoluteSuccess:Àshé oo. Ba' Ibèjí n jè oo . Ée édà n gbíyánjú ní nítorípè olorun ní nwo omo . Amó o bí éní tí o bì mí l'omo shè wo mí d'àgbà bée ní èmí nà à wo àwón omo mí l'àshé èdúmáàrè.
Éní'rè, àwón àgbà'gbà wípè ílè àyèe ílè oogùn ní.Bée ní ómó àrà'yè o fé'ní fo'ro àfí orí éní. This is the reality about the world we live in. Our ancestors were challenged too in the same manner as you ,I or anyone is on the path of revelation that is not known to anyone but given divinely.These people became the deities being honored and offering of ancestral sacrifices to as to connect to them. So ,your callling must not be ignored. Ájánákù kó já mo rí nkán fírí tí à bà ní à rí èerín kà ní à rí èrin. You are awesome
In as much as you are inspired by the divine power please do not ignore it because it will pay out once you don't quit. Má pé l'àyè Ojù mí o ní rí'bí, wà mú ókàn nínú é ní o. This is the life we all choose as humans for success or failure . I stongly beilieve your name will be written on the sands of time and God almighty will make you succeed no matter the challenges . Tí à ro ìbon àmà tún kíì ní.
There is something I will like to draw your attention toward and it is about being unique in what one does. Trust me there is a right time for everything and I am definite that your glory will spring forth like the way the morning springforth. Àfí àílà ójó bí ójó bà là áà là kèdèrè l'ashé èdúmáàrè àtí gbogbo éní ti o fé gbè yorúbà gàa .
Remain lifted forever
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by hayoholla(m): 10:27pm On Aug 30, 2018|
@ obalufonlll. Please let not degenerate to insult. we are all here to learn. no one knows it all. you are yoruba, neans you should know better than attacking your brother. Although, I dont agree sometimes with olu317 assertion in yoruba history. but I must say he is doing a fantastic and great job at unravelling our history bit by bit and sharing it here in this platform. That he qouted a scholar research paper does not means he is wrong and that does not makes you right either. we all have our divergent opinions on various issues based on the angles we sees it. I must say yoruba history is a very complex and knotty one due to a lot of dispersion, intermingling, migration and emigration, which makes it very difficult to agree at a consensus. no matter how right both of you are in your view, I still hold to my assertion that no scholastic view of the yoruba race is so sacrosanct that it should be taken as final. if you ask me, just take a look at the bickering between the olugbo and the oni different view of history of yoruba. The qulams is yoruba leaders and Kings has done little for the yoruba race to even reach an agreement on our origin largely due to the influence of religion and western influence. Please obalufonlll and olu317, call a truce. table your opinions like respectable yoruba men, else we become a laughing stock to others. thank you. omode gbon agba gbo li afi da ile ife.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 12:18am On Aug 31, 2018|
Àwón àgbà wí pè ,‘ Iwà l'òbà àwùrè .Hmmmm I don't always engage people with who are emotionally attached to what they dont but uses negative terms because I wasn't brought up in that manner. Well, I belong to a generation that cane was the order of the day to straightened any erring child, so being a deep thinker before reaction has mastered my personality. So ,I am always careful because I don't know who is reading as it concerns here.
I must confess, I appreciate your concern over a lot of issue and obviously the person that attacked my personality is of the same ancestry with Olugbo....So I know where his strength lies and his hostility. And I don't expect everyone to agree with me as you had clearly stated but when it gets to negative words being used on me , I stop quoting such person when it degenerate to such state because if one need a defence line on a subject matter, references should be in numbers and not defamation of character.
You see, I am on this platform temporarily to inform and I don't have any intention to discredit my lineage or Yoruba history's account but germane questions are unanswered ,which made the history of Yoruba inconsistent. Take for instance, the following questions:
1. How can Yoruba and Ibos came from the same source and not known?
2. How can the list of all the kings before Ooni Odua not made public?
3.How come Ibos Igbo ukwu artifacts is older than Ileife's?
4. How come lamb serves this same purpose as the ancient Hebrew ?
5. How come Yoruba is the only group in subsahara that recognised Aries power ( Ram) as a symbol of royalty and still kill it for sacrifice ?
6. How come Yoruba language stand alone in southern Nigeria,even the Igala that shared semblance don't have strong affinity with the germane Yoruba lexicons?
7. How come Yoruba word are shared with far away people in middle east( ancient Hebrew,Arabs and Egypt?
8. How come Yoruba had knowledge of eternal knots ,which is also known as Solomon's knot stand as royal design in Yoruba world?
9. How can Orunmila ,who is the pioneer of Ifa's knowledge was not known by Ibos, Hausa and Nok people if it all started in Nigeria?
10. How come it is hard to interprete the hieroglyphs on oranyan's staff since over 1000 years?
11.How did they gave birth to Olofin Ooni and Obatala?
There are so many ‘how '... without answers. And when I make reference to scholar work,they use negative words.
12. How come Àarà is used for thunder in Yoruba land and not used in Hausaland,Igala,Borgu,Ibos , Fulani West Africa, subsahara Africa etc but has Semitic link?
These were some of the things I asked they should explain to us but instead they use negative words on me .
Lastly, I had stated previously that time will tell.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 8:42am On Aug 31, 2018|
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 8:46am On Aug 31, 2018|
In as much as the people who feel the need to attack my personality are irrelevant to the reality and evidence to this thought provoking information being shared.Then I see no reason to stop informing the right mindset who need to be intellectually provoked to see reason that Yoruba as the people of old were emigrants to this present day Nigeria.
Categorically, there is no iota of doubt in my mind about the mystery of Yoruba Race,which researchers are trying to resolve through all form of Genealogy theories which include, Oral ,written and genetic-DNA link.
The western researchers kept bringing out information through hieroglyphs, pictographs, cuneiform inscriptions,but here, few elements think it is being emotional attached to Hebrew, which I laugh over reading their attack on my personality but little do they that attack on anyone's personality doesn't change the empirical and theory of ancient Yoruba language.
Hebrew: mi-mem-ma-mah (singular)
Meaning: any form of water,sea
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by OlaoChi: 9:17am On Aug 31, 2018|
This has to be the most intriguing direction history has ever been taken to.
History is now known by divine revelation. Olu317 and absolutesuccess, you guys are saying you know yorubas are Hebrews because the ancestors and Olorun revealed this to you
Never in the history of any academic discipline, more so one that is History itself, has such discipline been advanced by "just knowing" without learning, researching and fact finding
So with this let's conclude you have no evidence and this is the final confession?
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 9:44am On Aug 31, 2018|
So it is hard for some people to understand divinity-as a form of inspiration to one's research ? Do you even know how studied I am? Anyway ,I give glory to Eledumare, who is my God and who was the God of my ancestors and will always be the God of my descendants. Who is your God?
Okay,how did Orunmila had all the knowledge he encoded in Yoruba's IFA? I guess he wasn't divinely inspired ? Wonders never ends.
Anyway, I have screenshot the institute word for ‘water' because it seems you are making frantic effort to proof me wrong but you can't fight the information I display on here. I have done justice to the meaning of water and I can do to all word shared online by me,which is contrary to your self acclaimed knowledge, that can't differentiate between plural form and singular form of ‘water' which is ,‘mayim'or ‘mayeem'. Infact th mayim existed during the ‘late age '. Unfortunately, the non Western world speakers are the ones bringing out this information. to show to the world of the ancient language of Hebrew.
Stop chasing shadow and be humble to learn about ancient Semitic and ancient Egyptian language. You can look up egyptologists account on the web.
Lastly, I will not say to you, ‘ get a life ,' because you are the one who is struggling to stay afloat on this overwhelming information,which you got through me that you CANNOT know it exists in your lifetime .All thanks to divinity and research work .Give credit to me for exposing you to things your like minds and you don't know.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by OlaoChi: 11:25am On Aug 31, 2018|
You are bringing divinity into study of history?
That already exposes you as the fraud you are. It is unimaginable that one would say he knows the origin of a people not by studying the traditions of the people and what they have to say about their origin not by tracing lineages, not by DNA analysis or proper linguistic analysis but by revelation from the spiritual realm
Everyone can notice how you first came claiming to have concrete evidence. After having all your shams and match-up words exposed as unrelated you move to claiming you were called by God and the ancestors and the truth of Yoruba origin revealed to you spiritually
This is an all time low you have sunk to.
You have just exposed yourself as a a crazy and fraudulent hustler seeking relevance. You are not studied at all, what thesis did you write when you were studying? Since I asked before what you studied and at what university but you refused to answer.. Answer that one, what Thesis did you write when you were studying?
I have told you to take this up with the departments of history, linguistics, African studies (or any of the major social sciences) at any of the universities in Nigeria
If you cannot undertake a degree program(since you feel you know more than the professors) you can still work with them and even teach the teachers... But when you have evidence ni o.. Not go and waste your time and theirs
It will be safe for you to not speak about ifá like you know what goes on in initiate circles
You like ranting and instead of showing how Mahyeem or Mayim is related to Omi you are writing an epistle on Mayim being plural. Is that really the point? How does this advance your "Yoruba are Hebrews" claim?
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 12:03pm On Aug 31, 2018|
Trust me, you are a ‘baby' and I dont owe anything apart for you to feed your eyes to the things you have no clue about this because it is bigger than you. As usual ,when one is clueless,he or she engage in character assasination . It is will do you great deal of good to read through so as to expose yourself.
Was I the one that showed that ignorantly mentioned ‘mayheem' to disprove my information as the meaning of ‘water' in ancient Hebrew's lexicon ? No of course not, because you were the one that did so, as to score unncessary point.
If you want to learn ancient Hebrew,then say so . because I can make you study harder to disprove me . Infact, I can refer you to where to begin from.The ancient Hebrew will do the tric . Oh yes,before I forget, ‘Laban' is among the things you don't know. And MetaPhysical,posted a link for all who care to add more to his or her value.So help yourself by reading through to know the meaning of ‘Laban'.
Oorún- is light of the day(sun). A word indigenous to only Yorubas ,in Subsahara Africa but found in Middle East. The cognate in this word is found in ancient Hebrew's lexicon,which was known in ancient Hebrew as ‘or'( light of the sun– light of the day)
Is this coincidental too? Ignorance is a grandeur disease.
Below is the screenshot.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by absoluteSuccess: 5:47pm On Aug 31, 2018|
You are right my brother, you are always on point.
Never mind, your appreciations are never lost on me, my great prince. You know it lifts us all up together. We are doing the work now, the future greats will appreciate us as our forebears did the ancestors. Orisa Akunlebo were the ancestors that men served on their bended knee. It was not a given, they earn it. Yes, but how?
The ancestors too did deal with a lot of difficulties in their time and they did scale through, through diligence, determination and faith in themselves and their Creator, Olorun Olodumare, Oba atenilegelege fori sapeji omi. He was the inspiration behind Yoruba migration, hence the saying,
Aye l'oja orun nile,
adia fun Olodumare Baba at'aye matu,
Aye l'oja orun nile eyin ero,
bee de'le aye bee gbagbe orun,
e o j'iyin, e o j'abo oun ti eri.
That's God speaking at the valedictory service of the migrants, before departure from their homeland. Note that the word is directed to the crowd by the high priest of God, as received from "Olodumare Baba At'aye matu". If God has been involve in our history from time, He will see us through the thick and thin of time till the end of time.
Olodumare baba ato-aye matu is Yoruba for 'God the father, who protects our homeland from disintegration'. And, do we have any problem? No, we do not. Its ideal to have some little troubles here and there as common to all men. It's all that makes or break a man. My life challenges draw me closer to God, I would have been an atheist.
The ancestors did went through terrible time in the foundation age or so, as repleted in tradition, one of the precept of Owonrinsogbe said
Eekun abara yiyi,
alufo l'orun keregbe,
adia fun onikosi ope,
tii s'omo Olorun ansaadi.
Ifa, iwo l'omo onikosi ope,
ifa, iwo l'omo Olorun ansaadi,
ifa gbami o,
iwo lotonii gba.
Ifa gbami lowo olokun gbooro.
The last part seems to show that the awo's fate was hanging in the balance when the verse was penned. He was asking for the God of our refuge to save him from the one with a long noose. Like our progenitors of old, we will continue to look up to the God of our refuge, just as the great-fool up there look up to his university as 'heaven' and his prof. as 'god'.
Consider this iyere ifa, its beautiful for situations.
Ifa loni'le aye, Olodumare lo l'orun,
Ifa lo ni'le aye o, Olodumare lo l'orun,
Eniyan go lagoju, won seb'awon gbon.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by macof(m): 11:50am On Sep 01, 2018|
hayoholla:Although this wasn't directed to me I have to say if you want to learn you should do well to question your teacher. "teacher don't teach me nonsense" comes to mind. The person who has the facts is the person who is right no matter what you believe or what opinions you want to religiously and sentimentally hold on to
The complexity of Yoruba history is only due to 3 factors - 1. Secrecy and Mysticism which you can only overhaul(if you think it is a problem) when you are deeply in the tradition. The importance of initiation and active practice cannot be overestimated when it comes to Yoruba 2. Yoruba history is not Yorubaland-based or Town-based but first of all Family-based. Each family has their own history and traditions that revolve around certain events in the history of that family. Even what you might think are town festivals are mostly just certain families reenacting an historical event that is specific to that those families not the entire town. 3. The duality of most Yoruba figures. Most characters in yoruba stories have historical and spiritual aspects, the spiritual aspects are myths that guide the Yoruba religion. This can be a total mess to a person who doesnt know better, that is why you hear of Oduduwa creating the earth as he came down from Orun, yet that name is also given to the first Olufe (Ooni), take it as one side inspiring the other, sometimes we don't even know which inspired which...although in the case of Oduduwa the two sides seem to have inspired eachother, which the name Oduduwa coming from an older spiritual myth but the myth itself changing to incorporate elements of the historical events eg. Oduduwa the man, came down a chain from Ora hill, Obatala lost the war mostly due to his drinking problems
So its complexity has is not due to migration or intermingling in the sense that you think.
The seemingly different views of the Olugbo and Ooni's palace are actually both right, same way it might seem as if the families of Obatala and Obameri are telling different stories, they are saying the same thing just from different perspectives
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by macof(m): 11:59am On Sep 01, 2018|
There is only one question i have for you for now; If Yoruba are descendants of Hebrews why did we need christianity to expose us to Hebrews? Certain families should have traditions of Hebrews and spread the knowledge of their existence
I mean even Islam came years before christianity yet Yoruba seemed oblivious to the existence of the Hebrew or Jewish people
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by absoluteSuccess: 4:51pm On Sep 01, 2018|
Only a fool argues with fact.
When you present clear information, clever people bring you back into the whirlwind of confusions and obscurity that you are trying to set yourself free from because, fact coming to the light is an abomination to them. They wont fetch you any fact but myths of all shades.
It must always be the unfathomable illusion they want it to be: amulemofo. I have learn something vital in life, wisdom is for the highest bidder. You can never help anyone to become wiser without their consent. I am a descent of the original scholars, I wont be deluded.
This is what I'm saying: clever people are often much, but wise people are always few.
The wise will enlighten only the wise, and the clever will confuse only the fool.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by RedboneSmith(m): 5:06pm On Sep 01, 2018|
"During the later stages of the Late Stone Age, as farming turned wandering folks into settlers (from about 4000 BC), the scattered spread of farming people living in the West African region slowly began to get differentiated into related clusters and groups speaking proto-languages consisting of dialects that were related to one another.
Available linguistic evidence indicates that many such groups and clusters slowly formed on the banks of the Middle Niger, mostly in the area of the Niger—Benue confluence and above it. This linguistic evidence suggests that the Yoruba, Igala, Edo, Idoma, Ebira, Nupe, Kakanda, Gbagyi and Igbo belonged to a cluster of languages, now called Kwa sub-group of languages by modern scholars, belonging to a larger family of languages now called the Niger-Congo (or Nigritic) family of languages.
The small cluster was concentrated roughly around the Niger—Benue confluence. Over thousands of years, the groups in this cluster slowly separated as they developed distinctive characteristics, probably the last language groups to separate being the Igala and Yoruba. One study suggests that the proto-Yoruba and proto-Nupe language sub-families seem to have migrated from a little further up the Niger, slowly expanding towards the confluence, and that during that process each finally became differentiated from a mother language group.6
The clear implication of all this is that the origin of the Yoruba people as a linguistic and ethnic group belongs in the process of slow differentiation of proto-groups which occurred in the Middle Niger and around the Niger—Benue confluence, beginning about 4000 BC and continuing for thousands of years. It is, therefore, in this area that we must find the first home of the Yoruba as one people — the area close to the Niger—Benue confluence and further up the Niger, where the southern Nupe and the far northeastern Yoruba groups — the Yagba, Jumu, Ikiri, Oworo, Owe, and Bunu (now collectively called the Okun Yoruba by some scholars) — and the northernmost Igbomina, live today."
~ From "A History of the Yoruba People" by Professor Stephen Adebanji Akintoye.
Professor Akintoye is a professional historian. Not an amateur dabbling into something he is ill-equipped to grasp properly. He has been doing serious history for sixty years.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by OlaoChi: 5:22pm On Sep 01, 2018|
But you are arguing against fats. It is fact that Yoruba are a native west African people proven by DNA analysis, linguistic classification and multiple cultural aboriginality
I think at this point in anthropology and study of the Yorubas, any Semitic claim of origin is already nullified because no traces of Semitic identity has been proven to exist so far
I mean how possible is it that Yoruba being a Volta-Niger language under the Niger-Congo group of languages is false but is actually Semitic under the Afro - asiatic group of languages? That is too wide a difference
Could the DNA analysis placing Yoruba as a native sub saharan people be wrong? Why has Semitic genes not been found?
To be honest you are indirectly calling yourself a fool, and some clever people have confused you, confused you so much that you see facts staring you in the face and prefer to invent your own claims without any evidence... Or do you have evidence? It's a simple question o
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by absoluteSuccess: 6:24pm On Sep 01, 2018|
1. Because the Christians adopted Hebrew scriptures, the old testaments that detailed Hebrew history and their defunct kingdom in the
2. There are many families with sketchy traditions that you can only understand in details in the Hebrew scriptures, if you agree with them,
but only if you can decipher such traditions' true meaning.
3. Whatever you mean by that, (perhaps you mean that Yoruba came in contact with Islam before Christianity). Well, the hebrew are a people and not a religious organisation. Islam is a religious organisation of the Arabs like Christianity. People teach people religion, but people are born into a race. The race or tribe is kept to the background in religion, the religious ethos takes the lead.
3.b: People have no need for their 'original' history or culture to survive in the ancient time, their migration is a new identity and nationality is of no value the moment you leave your homeland. Your eyes is set to "create new adventure" that becomes your new identity. They were in search of a glory. There is no state that pride itself as the subset of another politically, and America comes to mind.
The America's founding fathers came from somewhere, but their history is not about where they came from, but who they were as a political entity. Yoruba does not need to be aware of hebrew, it is the various antiquity items within 'ancient Yoruba tradition' that needed to agree with that of 'ancient hebrew tradition. Those with the hebrew connection in Yoruba history are long gone, but their totem is what we are evaluating and re-validating.
Some Hindsight and My Research Methodology
Ancient people value their new abode than where they are coming from, and their original culture is of no significance to them for survival, compare to human qualities such as bravery, courage, faith and enterprise. Where they are coming from is secondary.
The incoming generation afterwards will reverence their founding fathers 'heroic deeds' than 'the unknown people' before them, and the memory of the earliest people will fade off to sketches and imponderable bits of history. It is the natural order of things.
As the genealogy continues, the founding heroes will equally fade in relevance and remain as totem, statues and as names of shrines. Memories will overlap older memories. However, the phases of history is not completely eroded, if you are an antiquarian.
The Antiquarians' work
The antiquarian need no answer to start. Yoruba need no reason to identify with the hebrew, and the hebrew don't need to identify with the Yoruba. It is "Yoruba traditions" or some imponderable words in Yoruba tradition that needs to agree with "hebrew tradition", or hebrew words agrees with Yoruba words.
When that happens, you isolate and review the two items collectively and objectively. You also continue your findings in various early traditions that may be obscure to social changes, areas that are not often given to indigenization with the passage of time for more items.
If you find the comparison convincing enough, then it becomes a subject of debate, and if you have convincing evidence to proof your point, whoever agree with you is welcome. You can't win everyone to your convictions or conclusion.
If you like to contribute, you are welcome. However, we are old friends and I know your angles and antics. Please be serious.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 9:39pm On Sep 01, 2018|
Baba, you nor go kill mans with laugh. This your post crack me up o. .
The emboldened part ehn, make people dey reinvent wheel that has been firmly established without any methodological basis nor be small thing o.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 9:42pm On Sep 01, 2018|
Baba, thank you for the solid post. Sadly though, to our people here, Prof. Akintoye is a block-head but Olumide Lucas is the scholar & authority.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 10:08pm On Sep 01, 2018|
Mr. Olu & I have or had no problems. We are cool. He likes Hebrew, a whole lot of AAs think they are Hebrew too & hey, it is a trend, it will pass. Can’t hold ill feelings over what a grown man chooses to identify as. We have had thoughts we agreed on & thoughts we diverged on.
I will & only slide through when Ife history is skewed to suit a narrative other than what shaped inter-group relations & socio-political arrangement of Ife.
Can your sibling or cousin narrate the history of your own immediate family (that is your wife & kids) structure? No. You may share early history with your siblings but at a point each sibling carves individual histories that can only be spoken on by someone from the inside not the outside - this is the only area I step in.
Mr. Olu is Yoruba but not from Ife. Can’t let folks continue to scuttle Ife history, the Samuel Johnsons, Alaafins, Olubinis, Olugbos of this world have done enough & Ife is working extensively underground to put a stop to that. Ife will tell its own history, it won’t be told by an outsider.
Olugbo & Ooni have/had no qualms. Olugbo knows his roots & place. He just tried to step out of the shadow of the Ooni like a number of other kings have tried to after Ooni Aderemi passed.
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|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 1:41am On Sep 02, 2018|
Looool. Nobody attacked you. You were called out.
I hope the emboldened wasn’t directed at me oh because that would be 1. Misinformation to suit your narrative & that makes it 2. Fraud.
I’m unrelated to Olugbo. Every autochthonous Ife person is of Ugbo origins including Oduduwa the usurper. Falsifying an ancestry for someone to set up your angle also shows you do not know much about Yoruba origins you speak of.
Anyways, I’m of the same ancestry as Olugbo as much as every Ife male & female, including the Otun Ife, Osin Ife, Awo Olodu merindinlogun & the Ooni.
Your interesting self thinks Ugbo is an outstandingly different group.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Obalufon: 2:53am On Sep 02, 2018|
Yoruba and ibo from the same source ..FALSE
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by hayoholla(m): 2:01pm On Sep 02, 2018|
dont you think at some point there was diffusion in yoruba history, I am starting to think yoruba is a the merging of two culture, one aboriginal and indigenous and the other foreign; which makes me think the aboriginal were kind of connected to the ibos or rightly put were a giant cluster until they split of at some point and the foreigner were the dominant group with little or no difference to the indigenous group, only that they have a superior culture that dominated the indeginous group both in language and way of life in general! I think they kind of reconnected back to the beginning where it all started.
mr olu317, this is for you sire. I read somewhere that the hyskos were infact the isrealite of old, that the various pharoahs that reigned in old egypt did not come from a single bloodline or race, that egypt itself has been invaded many times and many pharoahs of different ancestry and bloodlines has ruled there. the reason why I brought this up was because. you said somewhere in ur post that the early hebrew and the ethiopian nubian lived in egypt. the article also was of the opinion that the hyskos were driven out because of their domineering influence in culture and importantly, because of their numerical strenght. maybe they were driven eastward to present day yoruba nation. just a wide guess.
I am anticipating your contributions from you all. maybe we are "subtlely" agreeing on the same thing afterall!
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 6:58pm On Sep 03, 2018|
0balufonlll:Stop making scholarly references look as if you have mentioned 10s of scholars to support your regurgatating views,which I have done several times. Are you the owner of IFE to know who can lay claim to Ileife? My own ancestors spilled blood, sometimes die to make Ileife has relevance, and you are typing incoherent information.
Mind you ILEIFE CANNOT referred to men of great importance in the past and till the end of time with great exploit without talking about my ancestors. So define Mr. Olu since you know him very well.. Èemó rùkùtú pébépébé....... If Oranmiyan hadnt returned to Ileife,then he would have been called a ‘foreigner'?
Funny lot. Obviously, you are a young person at the manner of your youthful vigour because I sense it in your screenshots. Ride on but let your information has bite to knock off the information from the initiated western researchers that also claimed Yoruba had Hebrew's connection.
Again, since you had travel through time to venture into the past,please do the needful to explain who was Odua's father ? I am 100% confident you dont know and you will never know,the same way you dont know the meaning of ‘Adimula' because you have not done research outside the little you know about yoruba Race. Mr lecturer,If you can't provide the answer to the above ,then, you don't have any relevancy on the subject matter. After all, I provided screenshot of Hebrew that has cognate with ancient Yoruba words. Kindly counter each with concrete evidence. The information I posted are relatively new,compared to the ones posted centuries ago. Infact, some are even two or three letters word,so dont say, it could be ‘contraction', because ,it wont work . Perhaps, I would have provided more screenshot so that you will be amazed but not ready at this moment.......I know you dont have anything more to show,so kindly know your information litters the Internet but mine isnt, which makes it different.
Trust me,you dont know because it is bigger than you .....I wouldn't go beyond this because I don't want to get dirty with you but you kept drawing in that direction. Although I wont do such because Bíbíìrè ko sèfoworá... On a last note,I know you know and if you dont know I am not Obalufon's but Ooni's descendant.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by 0balufonlll: 8:03pm On Sep 03, 2018|
Loool this man is tripping the fxxk out. . Olaochi come get your homeboy o!
Since you want to play childish games, please tell us who your ancestor was 5 generations back then we can speak on Oduduwa’s father who was thousands of years back.
Who is your ancestor? No one knows who he is here in Ife, stop laying claims. You don’t belong here.
You are not an Ooni’s descendant, stop lying! These your claims from distance is the problem - you are disconnected from here and you do not know what is what. You want to sit behind a computer & lay claims.
All ruling houses know themselves and those who are not of royal descent but have their lineage houses beside or within royal compounds & they are being cut to size, not to mention you wey dey beyond Ilesa.
Stop deluding yourself, people of royal houses here & those who migrated to other places know who they are. In the whole of Ife, post Oduduwa era migrants of royal blood are Ifewara of Ooni Olojo Agbele of Yannigan compound, Ife Odan of Ooni Ogboru of Ogboru Royal compound, Sooko town in Ipetumodu also of Ogbooru Royal compound, Oke Igbo of Ooni Derin of Giesi Royal compound & Ifetedo.These compounds have their compounds in these towns and they come here to partcipate in ipade omo ile periodically & also have crown-prince investitures like we have here in Ife.
It is so intense that royal compounds know those founded by sons & those founded by females. In essence, those who have rights to the crown and those who do not. That is just to show you it is way too serious for someone to sit in the corner of a room & start laying claims.
Does your family come here to participate in periodic ipade omo ile? NO. Does your family do the crown prince investiture & so you know what crown princes are called? No. You have falsely attached yourself to Giesi in the time past & then recently Lafogido . Abeg, choose 1. Pick a struggle.
I will circulate your ancestor Luusi’s name around this week again & I’ll be sure to further burst your bubble here. Nor be only Ooni’s descendant, stop famzing. We don’t know you! .
If you followed this Ooni’s selection process you would have known how houses that hitherto claimed royalty were exposed when they were interviewed to state their ancestors’ contemporaries & so on. You’ll be surprised the Giesi & Lafogido houses you have claimed know their ancestor’s siblings, offsprings & contemporaries and where each settled in Ife or migrated to.
If you want to push your luck, visit Ife, I’ll host you & take you to Giesi & Lafogido compounds for you to be interviewed - but it would have to be on camera for everyone here to see you get served properly. Abeg just accept the offer, you go tell us the location where your ancestor spill blood.
Like Yoruba folks say, age is not agba. Mo ti se awo de oju ami & if I enter your hometown today in traditional circles, your own people will treat me better than they will or have ever treated you. You will be brushed aside and will not even be able to enter places in your own town that I can enter. This is what an agba is. So making reference to an imaginary youthful vigour is BS. Try another angle.
I know it pains you that I keep setting you straight and exposing your wrong claims about Ife and I won’t stop till you get your facts together or take Ife out of your falsehoods.
Every Ife person, from the Ooni down to the youngest toddler is tired of the continuous conjectural craps dished out by ignorant folks who are bent on falsifying claims to suit whatever agenda. Serious work is going on underground & it is only a matter of time before publications are rolled out to tell Ife history by the Ife. It hurts you that you do not know and have to rely on internet and your fantasies but that is not my problem.
If you like swim in the gutter you don’t want to descend into, my own is to check your false claims about Ife. Simple. It is the same way Mr. Absolutesuccess who is knowledgable in the history of his people will call anyone out if they made false claims about the Awori.
As for scholarly reference, if you want, I can bombard you with authors & their books. Those in my possession and those I am trying to acquire, that isn’t a problem for me. You are the one who has been unable to cite scholars & their works apart from Olumide Lucas, your mentor. .
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 9:19pm On Sep 03, 2018|
0balufonlll:Just imaging bringing up journals and books to proof nothing relevant ? Me, poorly read? I see but like I had said, answer the questions I had asked you D. about the peope I mentioned. Are you sure I claimed Giesi? Proof it. Who was lafogido? Who was Lajadoogun? Who was Ogboru? Who was Lajamisan? . Anyway, you are good at showcasing rhetoric and a master of it ,so continue. Why on a rush on taking me around ? Oh so you are going to be my tourist guide in my ancestral home? Continue . Please concentrate on your thesis,while using Yoruba and IFE's documented account, that has flaws,just as I had said that these information of yours litter the internet . If you want tobe relevant,do something different so that your name will be written on the sands of time. . And I assure, you will see me and I hope you can stand the test of it.....because if you are the type that Look for cheap relevance, I AM NOT. Then bring up Luusi's case so that you will end up like others that deleted the ‘monikers' . I assure you on it. Bibiire ko sè foworá.
Trust me, you are a distraction...
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 11:44pm On Sep 03, 2018|
hayoholla:The are rumours about the Hykos as being Hebrew shepherd Kings that lived in Tanis ,in part of Egypt.But it has been debunked by some scholars.Despite the fact that Hykos Pharaohs was first claimed by first century Israelite historian called Joseph Flavius. And Ralp Ellis also did some compelling study when he compared some of the Pharaohs with Biblical kings in his book, ‘Tempest & Exodus'. Joshua J .Marks, wrote an Article on the Hykos.
Well in as much as the world history is interrelated, the unraveling continues,which has always been the basis of juxtaposes of Semitic and Yoruba cognates. Funny enough, none amongst the aboriginal claimants can categorically say Yoruba is older than Ibos in Nigeria. This is because, archeology has proven this beyond reasonable facts. But here we are, we find people repeatedly saying the same thing over and over again, when human history is scientifically studied through every possible means to achieve the historical account of humanity.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Olu317(m): 12:41am On Sep 04, 2018|
absoluteSuccess:I salute you deeply my brother, and am not bottered about the lecturer up there because he is a young man whose perspective is limited to his surrounding. Ti èlègán lojú .....ìgí àrùwè.
Ahhh the last part of the iyere Ifa fascinates me, which says, ‘Eniyan gó lagoju won se ba'won gbon' because tà' ni o wà gbón bi kí nsè èlèdumarè ? Éní ti o ba fé gbon à juba ogbon... Èmi jubá ógbón ki ogbon to mi wa ki àgó jiná sí mì......Àshé momi. Àpè mo'rà ní à n wípè tèmídírè.
|Re: Yoruba Hebrew Heritage by Obalufon: 12:49am On Sep 04, 2018|
Calm down bro..
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