MuttleyLaff:
Where is the saleperson that recognises and accepts the imaginary million pounds in his bank account.?

Sebi, that is when you'll be in a position to get your bum on seat and grubby hands behind the steering wheel?
Where, where is the salesperson!?

Dude stop trying to divert, you said you'll convert if budaa finds just one person that believes, there was no talk of sales person so conform and stop being a bloody chicken. LMFAO!

budaatum:
MuttleyLaff, please do us all a favour and consider shutting up. You are muddling the thread with your ungrownupness!

I will show you ungrownupness in a minute

LordReed:
Dude stop trying to divert,
you said you'll convert if budaa finds just one person that believes,
there was no talk of sales person so conform and stop being a bloody chicken. LMFAO!

Please keep out of budaatum and I
and stop muddling the thread with your ungrownupness should have been addressed to you

raptex:
It all started as a quest to know God more (I'm still on that quest).I'd pray to God to reveal himself and for the holy spirit. I started reading the bible more than before. I noticed many cringe- worthy stories but I'd brush them aside because I was taught never to question God. Our Pastors, churches and the Nigerian society at large do not encourage rational questions and thinking.

I started to use the internet more frequently.I discovered Nairaland and started reading as a guest. I'd see posts about Daddy freeze challenging respected "Men of God" on issues they avoid in church. It became clear to me that most of them are thieves. I discovered that the bible was inconsistent and full of errors. I discovered that a lot of books that expose the bible for what it is have been removed to keep people enslaved.I started reading thought- provoking posts on Nairaland. Posts from people like Hardmirror,CAPSLOCKED, Joseph1013, Seun and so on.This forum has helped me in a lot of ways.

I still go to church to please my parents and so as not to arouse suspicion.I see Church these days only as a center for comic relief.

The Bible is the Epitome of contradiction and falsehood.

Indeed, there are golden messages from God between its pages, but there is absolutely no way that you can call it holy or inerrant or 100% truth.

MuttleyLaff:
I will show you ungrownupness in a minute

Please keep out of budaatum and I
and stop muddling the thread with your ungrownupness should have been addressed to you

You are now a confirmed confirmed chicken. LMFAO! You like starting things you can't finish, then when you've thoroughly tied yourself into a corner you start behaving like a cornered chicken. LMFAO!

budaatum:
Why would a god that asks its creations to forgive 70 times 70 times not itself forgive 70 million times 70 million times?

MuttleyLaff:
How do you mean with this remark?

budaatum:
God should forgive more than it asks its creations to forgive. A million times a million times more, at least.

MuttleyLaff:
How do you mean God should forgive more than it asks its creations to forgive and a million times a million times more, at least?

Ihedinobi3:
When you say that God ought to forgive sinners because He is loving and merciful and commands us to be the same, do you not mean that He ought not to punish evil?

budaatum:

I suppose I do mean evil goes unpunished by God. And if you take away the mythical hell, and God, it does appear to be the case that evil often goes unpunished unless we punish it ourselves.

Imagine politicians who rob us and who's children get to buy their way to rule in perpetuity. The British royal family come to mind. They built their wealth on the back of slaves and theft and I can't see how God punished them for it. Generations later, their descendants are enjoying their forebears ill-gotten wealth. Kind of debunks the idea of a jealous God "visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me", wouldn't you say? ^{See note though!}

Humans get away with quite a lot of things we'd consider sinful. We console ourselves with "they will go to hell", but that's just a belief. No one really knows if hell really exists such that the neo-Christians are in the process of eliminating the idea completely.
Besides, one can sin all one's life, say "Jesus is Lord" with their last breathe, and they get to go to heaven, unpunished.

"Ought", is not the right word. "God very often doesn't punish evil", is more accurate, or in atheist speak, "there just are no gods!"

But (and this is the 'note!') all the above is taking sin to mean sin in its conventional form, and god to be the man in the sky. If sin is considered to mean error, or ignorance or stupidity, and god means that which is right and proper, you might perhaps see how the 'sins' of the father are inflicted on generation after generation until one accepts 'Jesus' (knowledge, wisdom) into one's life and repents from the ignorant ways of oneself and forebears. Britain has done this, and is why it is heaven. While Nigeria continues to sin and is still hell.

I hope you heard of the Nigerian stowaways found on the Grande Tema in the Thames Estuary trying to get into heaven. They will be deported straight back to hell if not imprisoned first for being pirates!

budaatum:
I do hope we can achieve some clarity in communication though I think you misrepresent my position.

Here is what I said and what I think you refer to:

"God should forgive more than it asks its creations to forgive. A million time a million times more, at least. "

Considering that some humans would likely use up that quota, then of course once they have, punishment would and should follow.
And if said God's form of punishment is hell, which it would have created for that purpose, why please wouldn't it use it?
Would I not punish my child with a rod, if that's my preferred mode of punishment, and after I have forgiven the same sin even only just twice, because, I love my child?! Is it not in fact the love that I have for my child that would make me bother to punish it?

Please do show me where I said what you claimed above. It is not a position I believe I have expressed.
My apologies for giving you work.
See it please as correcting and ministering to me, and to achieve some clarity in communication.

You never responded to my above question, reproduced next below:
"How do you mean God should forgive more than it asks its creations to forgive and a million times a million times more, at least?"

I dont like making assumptions without seeing proof of it in black and white.
That's why I kept soliciting for more information
from you to state clearly & in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt, of what you're saying/asking
but I didnt get a reply to it, so I am not surprised, reading you throwing a strop at Ihedinobi3
saying he has misinterpreted and given you a position you haven't expressed.

I always find self styled, self confessed and/or wannabe atheists to be incredibly or extremely interesting bunch of human beings
Take for example, you, when and where you're saying:
"God should forgive more than it asks its creations to forgive. A million times a million times more, at least"

You then after, followed up that remark with a spate of highfalutin posts
and in typical armchair speculation style, reeled out subtle rantings and ravings about God being unjust, amateurish, useless and incompetent

Often what's said about God is that God doesnt know how to deal with evil.
Is causing hardship and is the cause of difficulties in life.
Other things said about God, is, He's struggling to deal with what's on the ground,
He is confused, has messed up big time, doesnt know any better and so is inept
An idiotic, narcissisitic rapist is how He is seen to be.
Another one, is like you, ineffectively, saying, God is a hypocrite because He isnt acting in the way He advises His creations to behave etcetera

If you cant be bothered budaatum, to get right, the number of times God advised His creations to forgive
then I shudder to think of how much more other things and matter you've misread into and misunderstood

raptex:
It all started as a quest to know God more (I'm still on that quest).I'd pray to God to reveal himself and for the holy spirit. I started reading the bible more than before. I noticed many cringe- worthy stories but I'd brush them aside because I was taught never to question God. Our Pastors, churches and the Nigerian society at large do not encourage rational questions and thinking.

I started to use the internet more frequently.I discovered Nairaland and started reading as a guest. I'd see posts about Daddy freeze challenging respected "Men of God" on issues they avoid in church. It became clear to me that most of them are thieves. I discovered that the bible was inconsistent and full of errors. I discovered that a lot of books that expose the bible for what it is have been removed to keep people enslaved.I started reading thought- provoking posts on Nairaland. Posts from people like Hardmirror,CAPSLOCKED, Joseph1013, Seun and so on.This forum has helped me in a lot of ways.

I still go to church to please my parents and so as not to arouse suspicion.I see Church these days only as a center for comic relief.

I experienced same stuff 2016. Am not a Christian but an agnostic guy now

MuttleyLaff:

You never responded to my above question, reproduced next below:
"How do you mean God should forgive more than it asks its creations to forgive and a million times a million times more, at least?"

You know me to respond to questions asked of me but I saw no reason to respond to your question muttley since my statement is rather self explanatory but if you need it explained then perhaps my so called "self styled self confessed highfalutin post" is way beyond your level or the switch on your brain needs turning on you after all showed its off when you argue that the "imaginary million pounds in my bank account" does not exist.

What proof do you want for a "should" statement?

budaatum:
You know me to respond to questions asked of me but I saw no reason to respond to your question muttley since my statement is rather self explanatory but if you need it explained then perhaps my so called "self styled self confessed highfalutin post" is way beyond your level or the switch on ...

I dont understand some of you guys sometimes.
I am beginning to think that maybe it's a tactical move or strategy you guys employ.

What I correctly wrote and in verbatim, reproduced below is the following:
"I always find self styled, self confessed and/or wannabe atheists to be incredibly or extremely interesting bunch of human beings.
Take for example, you, when and where you're saying:
"God should forgive more than it asks its creations to forgive. A million times a million times more, at least"

You then after, followed up that remark with a spate of highfalutin posts
and in typical armchair speculation style, reeled out subtle rantings and ravings about God being unjust, amateurish, useless and incompetent..."

I dont know what you plan to gain or achieve butchering up and bastardising what I wrote, trying to make it fail to represent what I intended.

budaatum:
... your brain needs turning on you after all showed its off when you argue that the "imaginary million pounds in my bank account" does not exist.

I never said it does not exist
rather I said if you can you find a person that recognises and accepts the imaginary million pounds in his bank account I will convert

Incidentally the belief in the existence of God is upheld in the courts of the land.
Try this your "cerebral" stunt in front of a judge on earth,
and let's see if your brain will reset and the smirk get wiped off your face or not

budaatum:
What proof do you want for a "should" statement?

I am not asking to be given a proof for a "should" statement

I like holding people by the wrist arm. That way, there is a slim chance of slipping away.
All I am asking is tell how you mean God should forgive more than asking creations to forgive and a million times a million times more, at least
Just explain, explain why you think God should forgive a million times a million times more

MuttleyLaff:

Just explain, explain why you think God should forgive a million times a million times more

If God asks mere mortals - whom it is supposed to have created - to forgive, God, the supposed creator, should be an example and forgive a lot more.

Originakalokalo:


I quote the scriptures to all...and derive my argument from it.

You have two choices. Listen or leave.


While they use logic to answer questions ignorantly,

They become logical in sin...

I quote the scriptures in God's righteousness.

You cannot separate my bible from me...

It is the word of the Almighty God.

It won't work.

spoken like a true sheeple! scared of critical thinking, detest logic, easily controlled by fear & hope.

MuttleyLaff:
I

I never said it does not exist
rather I said if you can you find a person that recognises and accepts the imaginary million pounds in his bank account I will convert

Kai! This guy can lie for Nigeria. This is what you wrote:

All I will care about is, if you can find one person, just one person,
just one budaatum, who believes in your fantasy of the imaginary million pounds in your bank account
you want to use to buy that spanking brand new red Ferrari sports dick extension car
then I will automatic alacrity, arriba, arriba, andale, andale Speedy Gonzales willingly become a convert.

Don't be lying you this chicken.

Ihedinobi3:

I think that you most certainly understand that you were saying that even if we assume that God exists, His Love - which Christians claim - should not allow Him to punish sinners for sinners.

Please note that I do not hold the position described here, that God's love "should not allow Him to punish sinners for sinning", nor do I think I said anything of the sort!

budaatum:
If God asks mere mortals, whom it is supposed to have created, to forgive, God, the supposed creator, should be an example and forgive a lot more.

Phew, thank you.
Better late than never. We got there at the end.
I thought so that this is what and how your reasoning will be.

Do you really think God is not leading by example?
Do you really think you are not be "forgiven" a lot more?
Are you unwittingly mixing forgiveness up with judgement?
Do you know how many that drove a car from the pub under influence last night and got home without a scratch?
Do you know how many tripped on the kerb this morning without getting hurt?
Do you know how many crossed the road this last hour with checking first if safely to cross?
Are you really calling God a hypocrite?

PS budaatum please do us a favour and rein in LordReed. I know what from the beginning I wrote

Listen to yourself! How can buda, an atheist, think a god can forgive, or judge, or be a hypocrite?

You seriously need to switch on muttley!

MuttleyLaff:
Phew, thank you.
Better late than never. We got there at the end.
I thought so that this is what and how your reasoning will be.

Do you really think God is not leading by example?
Do you really think you are not be "forgiven" a lot more?
Are you unwittingly mixing forgiveness up with judgement?
Do you know how many that drove a car from the pub under influence last night and got home without a scratch?
Do you know how many tripped on the kerb this morning without getting hurt?
Do you know how many crossed the road this last hour with checking first if safely to cross?
Are you really calling God a hypocrite?

MuttleyLaff:


PS budaatum please do us a favour and rein in LordReed. I know what from the beginning I wrote

Hey lying chicken address me directly. Don't lie and don't be a chicken and I will get off your case. LMFAO!

MuttleyLaff:

PS budaatum please do us a favour and rein in LordReed.

What? Tell him not to respond to you? Did Lord tell you I'm his mother or I pay for his data?! If anything, I should be paying him to throw your insulting ass in hell considering how little you've reigned your own self in lately with your incessant insults of buda.

He's dishing out the wages of your sins as far as I'm concerned, unless you are the one who thinks sins should go unpunished!

Do yourself the favour and reign him in yourself. I'm very certain that if you admit your errors he will be reigned.

And while you're at it, you might want to apologise to buda for being rude to you!

CHARLOE:

spoken like a true sheeple! scared of critical thinking, detest logic, easily controlled by fear & hope.

Yeah.

budaatum:
Listen to yourself!
How can buda, an atheist, think a god can forgive, or judge, or be a hypocrite?

No!
You listen to yourself, you listen for a nanosecond change to yourself.

Hear me good and I mean real and pretty good now budaatum.
I have switched off any thought of your pretend and fantasized imaginary million pounds in your bank account
It's dead easy. I will never discuss again, will never raise it up again, wont ever be fazed at all to again bring it up
but you, you budaatum have a friendly albatross hung around your neck. Kikikiki ki ki.
I can shut out your pretend and fantasized imaginary million pounds in your bank account thought and never mention it again
but you budaatum an atheist will today, tomorrow and unto the end of time of this side of eternity cant similar with God
You are foxtrot uniform charlie kilo echo delta mate
I am free, its so good to be free, what a very good feeling

The non existence of God is eating you away,
unless you sleep, you cant escape from arguing the existence of God nor stop questioning God

budaatum:
You seriously need to switch on muttley!

Did the mirror break when you said this in front of it?
Better find one thats not and repeat this remark in front of it

budaatum:
What? Tell him not to respond to you?
Did Lord tell you I'm his mother or I pay for his data?!
If anything, I should be paying him to throw your insulting ass in hell
considering how little you've reigned your own self in lately with your incessant insults of buda.

He's dishing out the wages of your sins as far as I'm concerned, unless you are the one who thinks sins should go unpunished!

Do yourself the favour and reign him in yourself.
I'm very certain that if you admit your errors he will be reigned.

And while you're at it, you might want to apologise to buda for being rude to you!

budaatum hmmm, dont be doing like you dont know
It's not like someone snitched on you, I read you asking if I am being annoyingly lazy when I was quizzing you
If I should start to talk budaatum, it wont end

You know me, I dont give a foxtrot uniform charlie kilo about him
It is you maintaining your sanity I am concerned about because when the ruckus reaches the roof you'll soon be whingeing over it
Suit yourself then, if you are dead against the suggestion to rein him in or at least put him on a strong short and far away leash from derailing

MuttleyLaff:

but you budaatum an atheist will today, tomorrow and unto the end of time of this side of eternity cant similar with God

If you mean I cannot stop talking about God, then haleluya Jesus Christ, Amen, you are 100% correct. Why would I stop talking about God? Is it your own God alone? Who gave you monopoly on God?

Truly I tell you, MuttleyLaff, receive this cup of water so that you too will certainly not lose your reward.

budaatum:
If you mean I cannot stop talking about God, then haleluya Jesus Christ, Amen, you are 100% correct. Why would I stop talking about God? Is it your own God alone? Who gave you monopoly on God?

You hate hearing anything upholding the existence of God, you cant stop ridiculing God anything to do with God
You have a monkey on your back, a friendly albatross hung around your neck, the burden is too much for you to ignore, shrug off or brush aside
That's why you can't stop talking about God. Your soul is restless and filled with anxiety
Oh yeah hallelujah, thank you God in Jesus Christ's name, Amen, I know I am 100% correct.

The thinking that God doesnt exist, is eating you, in the inside away,
unless you sleep, you don't and cant escape from arguing the existence of God nor stop questioning affairs of God

budaatum:
Truly I tell you, MuttleyLaff, receive this cup of water so that you too will certainly not lose your reward.

You need the water more than I do budaatum.
The need to quench the thirst for truth resides more with you than I budaatum
Hold on to the cup bud. Taste the water, sip and drink it budaatum, swallow, please.

Dont worry about me budaatum, brother and friend, because my reward is already safeguarded

MuttleyLaff:
No!
You listen to yourself, you listen for a nanosecond change to yourself.

Hear me good and I mean real and pretty good now budaatum.
I have switched off any thought of your pretend and fantasized imaginary million pounds in your bank account
It's dead easy. I will never discuss again, will never raise it up again, wont ever be fazed at all to again bring it up
but you, you budaatum have a friendly albatross hung around your neck. Kikikiki ki ki.
I can shut out your pretend and fantasized imaginary million pounds in your bank account thought and never mention it again
but you budaatum an atheist will today, tomorrow and unto the end of time of this side of eternity cant similar with God
You are foxtrot uniform charlie kilo echo delta mate
I am free, its so good to be free, what a very good feeling

The non existence of God is eating you away,
unless you sleep, you cant escape from arguing the existence of God nor stop questioning God

Did the mirror break when you said this in front of it?
Better find one thats not and repeat this remark in front of it

budaatum hmmm, dont be doing like you dont know
It's not like someone snitched on you, I read you asking if I am being annoyingly lazy when I was quizzing you
If I should start to talk budaatum, it wont end

You know me, I dont give a foxtrot uniform charlie kilo about him
It is you maintaining your sanity I am concerned about because when the ruckus reaches the roof you'll soon be whingeing over it
Suit yourself then, if you are dead against the suggestion to rein him in or at least put him on a strong short and far away leash from derailing

Chicken

LordReed:
Chicken

[img]https://s1/images/stirringMuttleylaff.gif[/img]
What happened to the gif you tried first putting up?
You gave up on it too fast and easily. Tut tut tut tut
Next time send your pet cockerel to get a bottle Castillo
and not that poxy cheap canned beer you sent it for me

MuttleyLaff:
You hate hearing anything upholding the existence of God, you cant stop ridiculing God anything to do with God

You lie, muttley! Or point to one single post where buda ridicules or shows hatred on hearing about God!

[img]https://media1./images/cf8e85e5a2119a0d1135997f6480d14d/tenor.gif?itemid=7885372[/img]

budaatum:
You lie, muttley!
Or point to one single post where buda ridicules or shows hatred on hearing about God!

Never mind budaatum, if you believe you've never and dont ridicule God
Pesin wey shit for bodi, dey always forget, but the other pesin wey wipe hin bumbum foram and clean am up, no dey forget
If I should start to point budaatum, it would be like a multiple dilemna kid asked to point to one single sweet in a candy shop

PS: I see you have joined gang budaatum. How many days to Christmas. That cockerel needs fattening up men.

You are completely without shame!

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/stirringMuttleylaff.gif[/img]
What happened to the gif you tried first putting up?
You gave up on it too fast and easily. Tut tut tut tut
Next time send your pet cockerel to get a bottle Castillo
and not that poxy cheap canned beer you sent it for me

Doesn't change the fact you are a confirmed clucking chicken.

budaatum:
You are completely without shame!

You are contradictory.
You are almost like two people if not more, saying one thing but then saying another and/or doing something very different.
It is not neccesary to argue or discuss God and God's affair or business.

You dont believe in God, so why cant you leave God alone then, why cant you leave people that believe in God alone?
Ah, its the monkey on your back, the friendly albatross hung around your neck,
the burden is too much for you to ignore, shrug off or brush aside

MuttleyLaff:
You are contradictory.
You are almost like two people if not more, saying one thing but then saying another and/or doing something very different.
It is not neccesary to argue or discuss God and God's affair or business.

This is about the first thing sensible thing you've said in two days! Yes muttley, more than two people self. There are demons in buda, more like legions. There is only one single doing buda though.

MuttleyLaff:
You dont believe in God, so why cant you leave God alone then?

I do advise that you drop this though. It does not show knowledge of God, in my most humble opinion.

budaatum:
This is about the first thing sensible thing you've said in two days!
Yes muttley, more than two people self.
There are demons in buda more like legions.

I dont doubt you
They must be overfed and fat demons sha
because you've been pretty busy lately feeding them, stuffing all sorts into their cake holes

budaatum:
There is only one single doing buda though.

One buda is all thats required for legions.
How many budas were you expecting?
You think God didnt manufacture buda well enough to withstand having a legion in him?

budaatum:
I do advise that you drop this though.
It does not show knowledge of God, in my most humble opinion.

I am sorry to say this but you have a jejune opinion

MuttleyLaff:

You think God didnt manufacture buda well enough to withstand having a legion in him?

No. I know God didn't manufacture buda, mummy and daddy did, the physical structure at least, and I manufactured the buda mind inside that structure myself.

I like my legions!

budaatum:

No. I know God didn't manufacture buda, mummy and daddy did, the physical structure at least, and I manufactured the buda mind inside that structure myself.

I like my legions!

You wrote:
"There is only one single doing buda though"

I misinterpreted what you meant,
and so incorrectly gave what you just responded to.

Did you with that remark above in inverted commas say, there's is only one demon in you, doing you?

MuttleyLaff:

Did you with that remark above in inverted commas say, there's is only one demon in you, doing you?

Many demons, One buda.

What are demons, muttley?